How did Hindus Become Vegetarians?

Re: # 277

even a Muslim Urdu poet (I think it was Ismail Meerthi but I am happy to stand corrected) wrote a poem we read as kids:

"Rabb ka shuker adaa ker bhai;
Jis ne hamaari gaye banaai".

Re: # 275

Welcome back Laddu!

Man this cow business! A cow is a cow is a cow.....
Perhaps we can accept the concept of "an all giving cow, its nourishing milk, oxen for agriculture etc and meat(?), hide and all the rest" is an allegory(?). The ancients might have thought it was the be-all and end-all of existence.

Let's move on to something more 21st century perhaps...

Re: # 268
Bhatti sahib; O paaji, jaan deyo baadshaho; tuhanu eh chhoti jayi gal samajh naeen aa rahi!
Here is the deal; Monotheism was monopolised by the Judeo-christians in the 7th century arabia. This concept was hijacked and recycled, with additions of existing arabic customs to make it acceptable to the pagan arabs. It was a strong political ideology that united the warring tribes and made a nation out of them.
There was absolutely nothing new in Mohammed’s message; nothing that either didn’t exist in some shape or form in judeo-christian mythology, or not known via transmitted knowledge across from other trading partners of the arabic peninsula; in fact this is where Mohammed got to hear about the tales of the “biblical prophets” first, on his travels.
A few examples: Paradise with its “doodh aur shehed ki nehrain” (God’s promise to Abraham to give him and his descendents the “promised land of milk and honey”.
Dietary laws (see my previous interacts on the subject).
He did introduce a very clear picture of “heaven and hell”; one with carnal pleasures alongside the doodh and shehed!, the other with clear warnings about the forthcoming fire/punishments for sins against god; this helped consolidate the faith (iman pakka karne ke liye) so there would be no dissent. To this day, it happens to be the hardest faith system to leave or even criticise from within.
Now, the Shias, with their non-acceptance of virtuall the whole of Islamic history after Mohammed’s death, what is your take on their “Imams – Haazir or Ghaib”, their strange redeeming and intercessary powers to change the course of this world and the next; even Mohammed didn’t make such claims. I think there are far more similarities between mainstream Sunnis and, at least, the Lahori-Ahmaddiyas (who only regard Mirza a “mujaddid” – reformer rather than prophet).
Are you happy to leave the shias to “sipaah-e-sahaaba” or are you, in the fullness of time, planning to “sort them out” as well?
“Yeh muamlay hein naazuk......”

Re: # 270

Eklavya, Did you forget reciting the reverse-kalima today?

How can you fail to distinguish between Indian Cow ( female bovines), Ox, Bull, Buffalo?

There are atleast 50 types of cattle. I remember that with the advent of American Jersey Cows a lot of Hindus refused to used the Ghee made of that breed for Pujan purposes!

There is a breed of Indian Cow that is indeed sacred. But I doubt if the reference of "gau" is towards the American Jersey Cow or the Bull or the Oxen or other 49 breeds of cattle.

Regarding, vegetarianism, except for Brahmins, Kshatriyas and others are not prohibited from hunting, killing animals or eating the meat.

In the past hindu kings' darbars had excellent recipies for different types of meats. Lord Rama was a king and he followed his dharma and was not a vegetarian.

Yes, but when every person has to embrace Sanyasa (renunciate) in the last quarter of his life and he has to give up tamasika food including meat. So vegetarianism is dependent upon your stage of life as well and is mandatory for Hindus in later stages of life (Sanyaas Ashrama).

Islam has no conception of the spiritual stages (Ashrama) of a human life , because it is based upon cloning Mohammad who lived the first 42 years of life under a powerful woman and the rest 20 years of the life he lived as a murderer, rapist and bandit.

Furthermore, like many have said...if an angel can speak to a pervert in a cave and give him the word of god...what is so illogical about a guy receiving divine dictacts from gods ala mirza? Tell me why this is implausible. Wasn't god finished wth jesus' message in the abrahamic tradition before mohammeds wet dreams? Same logic applies.

Eklavya yaar, once again you fall off your own logic train. "Faithful need no explanation but faithless do"???? What kind of idiotic thinking is that. You cannot be serious here. You are smarter than this. Faithlessness is as valid as faithfulness....where did you get thos notion that they are and can be distictly vetted? There is one god and his name is allah is as valid a statement as there is a chutiya concept of god and allah is the most chutiyest of those concepts. Both statements are valid and true equally. Your logic of dismissing the latter while admitting validity of the former is asinine. No offense kaal....but I thought you were atleast psuedointellectual. Sab Theek hai ooper?

LOL, sattar bhai, zee has abandoned NOTHING, nor has any other Muslim.

As a good Hindu, you reject. I have no problem with that, but Muslims will.

And, if you are going to 'restore' Islam by turning it into Hinduism, I again would have no problem with it.

I just wish you were upfront about it, so if some Muslims advocated restrictions upon you, your protests would have credibility.

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Have to say, this Hindu/Ahmedi notion that Islam is some retarded form of Hinduism, and will one day grow up to become Hinduism-lite, all stretched and loose, is a bit strange...If that is indeed Islamic goal, I would say you are a couple of thousand years behind :)

Kaal … in addition to #269 …

I hate to break this to you yet again (lordi, lordi … have mercy on me) but even zee has abandoned you and rejected flying prophets. Read this again, you fool! May be you were too busy kissing his rear to notice what he wrote. Start with #220 and follow through …

So your main issue remains with zeemax. You are wasting your time getting sidetracked with other issues ...

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Re #270: If it took 1400 years to get to flying prophets, cow worship is right around the corner (grin).

And it would be a stretch to say that Islam is getting destroyed; it is merely getting stretched … like Hinduism did, long ago. No difference … same, same. But don't worry, we Ahamdi-Muslims will bring it back to its proper form. Heck, we can even sell it to our Hindu brethern ...once again (wink).

sattar boss, ALL of that is possible.

May be Hindus are right, and Muslims are wrong. May be god does indeed do the things you say he might do, and has secretaries like you and me.

I just wouldn't believe all that, and call that Islam, or tell all that stuff to Muslims, and still expect to be counted among Muslims.

What's next for Islam? Cow worship?

A good way to destroy Islam, and quite innocent too! :)

Kaal (#267),

You are getting bent out of shape over nothing …

As you criticize Ahamdis of limiting and reducing the divine, you are overlooking the possibility that perhaps god Himself told Mirza how to interpret flying prophets. Maybe god talks to each Ahamdi every day. Perhaps I am having coffee with god today, after work. Got it? Good!

You cannot rule out these possibilities UNLESS you yourself limit the role of divine and reduce Him down to your own level. And this is your dilemma …

And no one is bringing god down to earth. But are you suggesting He Himself cannot choose to come down to earth?? Unless you are His private secretary, I fail to see your point.

In essence, what you accuse Ahmadis of, you yourself commit … but only to a more extreme degree. If there is ONE thing you should learn here, this is it.

More later …

Re: # 265

Sattar Saab,

Don't mix the issue of shias and sunnis in defence of ahmadism. These two are seperate issues. Shias never came up with an imposter.

And finally, please mention the name of web site from which I have sourced my info. It would be a news for me.......


Re: # 265

Cheema saab,

Muhammad never said any where that christians or jews will cease to be christians or jews if they do not beleive in him, contrary to Mirza Sahib's claim that unless one does not beleive in him he is not muslim.

Muhammad did not encroach upon the religious space of anyone, and presented Islam to people to accept or reject it. In case of Mirza, he is preseting not any new religion but only his status as prophet, and stealing the identity of muslims if they reject him.

vengatramanan, Hindus/Indians can question everything and believe anything that does not itself remove this freedom without imposing unacceptable costs. All Hindu/Indian belief is human stuff anyway.

Even among those Hindus who have a god (or gods) most make very sure that their god never gets to have a final word, is brought down to earth to say new things and do his/her duty everytime things begin to go terribly wrong for a terribly long time. Our mirzai friends might have a resonance to that idea.

Vengat, in India, a whole range of diverse ideas combined in various ways to ultimately lead to the mighty tradition of the Buddha. Just as at a later time, many great ideas combined to make Sikhism.

Eklavya,

Amartya Sen speaks about disparate schools of thought in Hinduism. Didn't Lokayata and Carvaka schools question all of the postulates on God and the Hindu beliefs?

Cheema Shaib (#262),

Your observation is on the mark … and highlights ummah’s double-standards.

History of Islam is replete with fatwas of kuffr and inter-sectarian violence; shias and sunnis have been killing each other as far as I can remember … and more. Bhatti Sahib remains oblivious to all this and takes issue with Ahamdi-Muslims - all on basis of quotes from an obscure website. Go figure ...

CA, the faithful need no explanation, faithless ones do.

For the faithful, 'flying prophets' is a minor detail. Anything is possible in God's domain.

For you, Mirzais, and me, that becomes a barrier impossible to cross.

Not that you (Hindus and Mirzais) would agree, but that is how it is.

Believers, of course, may correct me if I misunderstand.

yaar kaal, eik baat bataa, how come you always go back to the refrain of faith needs no explanation yet start out with explaining what faith is? On one hand you ask folks not to question zee or bhatti or urstruly's faith...(as you think it is the right one) on the other hand, you question those who are ahmedis' faith..(as you think it is the wrong one). I think you should take a break from chowk for a few weeks and clear up your logic. perhaps a visit to an ashram or some sufi shrine for meditation or something. you are more confused now than ever before.

Feel free to come back with a lot of words without actually saying much...we all expect it.