The Nawaiwaqt Generation and the Power of No!

Tribute to Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chauhdary:

"As the heavens above will bear witness, if My Lord Chaudhry hadn’t stood up on March 9 last year, and if Pakistan’s lawyers in their thousands had not leapt to his defence, launching and sustaining a movement with few parallels in our strife-torn history, Musharraf’s rule would not have weakened and perhaps what we are experiencing now, Pakistan’s democratic spring, would not have happened. The crumbling of Musharraf began with Chaudhry and the lawyers’ movement."

- Ayaz Amir [http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=102394]

An elaborate account of happenings around Pakistan & the Political Machinery and how it affects what has happened and may happen in Pakistan.
I admired your summation of this super long matter and would suggest not to give an ear to those who appear to be drawing you in to a debate out of context. I think you have done a wonderful job of assimilation of matters as they exist by using the layman's non-scholarly non-molvi scenario of how Iblees the Satan acted and whatever took place at the inception of world, those who understand the entire scenario and those who wish to understand will do it without any follow up on this subject as that sub-topic is being exploited by those "satans" who wish to divert the attention of readers from the basic concept of your analysis.
Once again thanks for sharing your thoughts, when it comes to agree, some will, some won't, so what?

#427 Posted by MantoLives

"This is a well written piece as usual."

Missed your comments! I thought you and Feroz would have something to say but you two were AWOL!

HP,

This is a well written piece as usual.

I read this article, it’s funny how Sindhis will always trace all ills back to Punjabis, and Punjabis to Pashtoon, and Pashtoon to their goats or young lads they love to have sex with so much. But when the whole place is looking like a circus, smaller issues, such as treatment of Sindhi Hindus at the hands of the Sindhi uneducated land owners, and treatment of other minorities (religious and otherwise) gets buried under a heap of shit. What remains constant is finger pointing in every direction except towards their own kind, their own faith, and their own miserable (borrowing from and directed towards Masadi) selves.

Look at Leadenwinter's "Reality" piece on his ilog, where this army apologist has made a cheap third rate copy of my article on American Freedom in a plagirist's common soup manner losing its head and tail in the process. This disease affects many all across the colonized world....

later..

In #422 read "just if not more absurd than the religious mythology of preliterate tribes" as

"just as if not more absurd than the religious mythology of preliterate tribes

My newly submitted article that Chowk Staff is censoring as they have censored the nearly half dozen other articles I have submitted can be read at the link under:

LOST IN TRANSLATION: THE MYTH OF AMERICAN FREEDOM
MASADI.

http://blog.asadi.org


p.s: By the way, not to disturb your religious discussions in any way, claiming that certian things are "ridiculous" just because they happen to be outside of your own personal experience and consciousness isn't very smart. Much of today's knowledge when explained to the unknowing would sound equally "ridiculous"- not to mention that the current day myths, like the myth of American Freedom are factually just if not more absurd than the religious mythology of preliterate tribes, though it is pushed in a more sophisticated manner....

#419

You sound very much like an interactor who I have already asked NOT to interact with me. OR if you are the person who began this discussion with him, I am sorry that you had to go to this level.

Thank you for your unsolicited advice though. It is unfortunate that you read my post as "crawling" and even more unfortunate that you had to masquerade as another nick to tell me that. Not sure exactly what to call that. Calling the pot black?

When you have sobered up, perhaps you will see the ridiculousness of your advice. Until then, my way of interacting with HP or anyone is none of your bloody business. So you, kindly desist from telling me what to do, and this is the last time I am going to ask you NOT to interact with me. Baat aayi samajh maiN?

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view this users filtered interacts

HP,

I really did not mean to enter into any debate, and to cause you any inconvenience. If I had said at the beginning what I thought, we might have had this conversation earlier. Phir dekha aik aur taraf se khali "dishooN, dishaaN" ki aawaz aa rahi thi, aur socha, chalo keh dete haiN. So keh diya.

I do read Amardeep's blog often, but I can't recall that post so I will go back and read it again. Or I must have read it, which is why I thought of Milton and Paradise Lost Either way, thank you for bringing it to my attention again. :)

As for ridiculous religious concepts, I think you and Hamid M might be closer in thought regarding religion, and I will leave both of you to what you think!

#417
Now I don't believe that god was sitting on some takht like a shanshah on satwaan Aasman and ordering angles and jinns around to do stuff. I mean if you can believe in these ridiculous religious concepts, you can believe in any thing! But then that is what religious beliefs are; Just beliefs!

Ana,

Since you have come in the debate which I really don’t want have with this comedian, let me add a few lines here.

I have not introduced some new concept and there is plenty of material available on the subject.

Anyway, here is a little something to ponder. From Wiki but I am pretty sure that is what Muslim belief is.

“In Basic Islamic Teachings, Allah created three intelligent races. Angels, Jinns and Humans - of which the latter two have been granted 'free will' to choose between good and evil.
Iblis was of the jinn race (a supernatural equivalent to Man) and was a devoted servant of Allah. He attained a very high status and was brought close with the Angels. Allah knew Iblis harbored ill intentions, however, and this was the reason for his name, Iblis (meaning "desperate").
The Angels do not have free will and simply do not sin because they were not granted the freedom by God to disobey. When Allah created Adam The First Human, He commanded all the Angels and Jinn to prostrate to him as was termed "the Best of Creation". All the Angels and Jinn did so, except Iblis, who refused to obey.

“And We created you (humans), then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who made prostration. He (Allah) said: "What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee?" (Iblis) said: "I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud". Qur'an 7:11-12�

Amardeep Singh of Sepia Mutiny has an interesting post on this issue on his blog which certainly also refers to Genesis and Isaiah

“The creation of Shaitan in the Quran is a little different from the creation of Satan in Genesis and Isaiah. In the Quran (and I should confess I am no scholar), the most direct verse I can find is 7:11 (I have quoted this above already. HP)

Read his post I think you will like it.
http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2004/05/satan-and-shaitan-empires-of-liquid.htm l

Excerpt :
Milton: Knowledge, Rational Choice
“The Shaitan of the Quran and Isaiah are interesting, but the versions of Satan that resonate most with me are the two paradigmatic modern versions -- the Mephistopheles of the Faustus myth (interesting in both Christopher Marlowe's Faustus and Goethe's Faust), and the Satan of John Milton's Paradise Lost. Let me quote a long but rewarding passage from Milton's Paradise Lost Book IX:�

#415
Shaitan deserves our respect and admiration.

The Muslims believe when God created Adam, he wanted the Angels to bow before him. All complied but one and the closest Angel to God, now known as Shaitan, said No! With that simple No, he became an equal of God and now the entire corps of God’s prophets had only one job and that was to tell people how bad the Shaitan was!

I am not certain what HP is being asked to prove here. This is not a verbatim quote from the Holy Book, it is a statement of interpretation. Or (mis)interpretation as some might think.

It reminds me of Milton's Paradise Lost, a text where one can read the political in the biblical story (in this scenario) I do not know if HP has actually read Milton,but that is what I thought of when I read about the power of no.

I would not recommend putting Milton aside personally. I would recommend patience though. . .