The Deoband Declaration on Terrorism: Why Now?

zee, I have to tell you, I still can't get over the piece by one of Dailytimes editors, suggesting that Islamists should 'swatted' like the flies that become too much of a nuisance.

That mindset and language one expects from chaltahai, arjun, even jayp, who after all come from a completely different background....

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nkg, BIMARU states of India will remain BIMARU. Nothing can be done about them.

Whatever is happening in Bangladesh is happening on its own accord.

Re: # 77
Who bothers about Pakistan's status in Ummah? Your President had admitted publicly that Richard Armitage had threated to bomb Pakisthan to stone age. Is that sign of power? Pakisthan is viewed as breeding ground for terrorists, most dangerous place on earth. Does this look dignified? Your ummah is surviving on arab oil. Let that finish, ummah will vanish. Do you think your old,North Korean missiles will be able to prevent USA/NATO from destroying Pakistan? I am not saying overall, India is doing good in economically. But the sign is very healthy ( education, health, industry, technology) in most of the sectors.

nkg, a LOT of people do care about such things.

And don't forget, the USA does not (have to) threaten weak and incapable states. American must realize that Pakistan can make enough of a difference in world affairs to threaten the US or its interests.

That's more than what many would say for India.

Kaal bhai,

Thanks for #77. It brought a much bigger chuckle on my face than anything else I read today!!!

(Pakistan is a large country with nuclear capabilities. Within sixty years it has already established itself as the Ummah's most powerful member and the most active leader.)

USSR too was a large country with nuke capabilities and it had established itself as the Marxist Ummah's most powerful member and the most active leader. I hope this was not the precedent that you had in mind.

(Its thinkers and leaders are shaping and moulding the Ummah.)

Have you been spending much time with Yasser mian lately???

(After loss of direction initially, Bangladesh too is on its way.)

A nation which is both BONG and MOMIN can go only ONE way but that may well be my personal prejudice so I will not get into it any further.

The other issue of course is that half of B'desh will be under the sea in 15 years time, although to be sure, they can get their compensatory lebensraum in WB and NE.

Regards

PS; Never mind if I didn't agree with some of your post's conclusion, I thoroughly enjoyed #77.

Ref Eklavya #77

[Pakistan is a large country with nuclear capabilities. Within sixty years it has already established itself as the Ummah's most powerful member and the most active leader. Its thinkers and leaders are shaping and moulding the Ummah. It's rock solid. All Muslims - nationalists, Islamists - are behind it. By no means it is a flop nation.

After loss of direction initially, Bangladesh too is on its way.

India, by comparison, is nowhere near attaining similar status in its own domain of relevance and interest - the non-Ummah world. We are making some progress, but even the most optimistic of us wouldn't call India the most powerful nation of the un-Ummah.]

Un-Ummah includes Christians and the Chinese/Japanese/Confucianists besides the Hindus.

Among Hindu nations, India is by far the biggest.... considering that the only Hindu nation is Nepal which is also going to become secular under the Marxists who were trained at Jwahirullah Nehru University.

Wait for Nepali Muslims to get a Haj subsidy; it won't be long.

Ref Eklavya #83

[American must realize that Pakistan can make enough of a difference in world affairs to threaten the US or its interests.]

So, have you got your T-Shirt with the Pakistani flag on it ready? I assume you plan to wear that T-Shirt and wave your green passport nonchalantly at the Immigration counter at JFK airport as you land there in a PIA plane.

What is it I heard lamenting the fact PIA is not even allowed to fly to most European countries whereas India's private carriers are getting landing rights?

[That's more than what many would say for India.]

Yes. That is why the US is offering Pakistan nuclear reactors and fuel along with co-production possibilities if they buy American warplanes, something they are most definitely not offering India!

majum dada, glad you enjoyed, although, perhaps unintentionally on my part? :)

IslamIslam, other than Sikhs, and some Buddhists, may be, Indic people don't count in such matters. To be counted, one has to develop boundaries first. Don't you think?

Ref Eklavya #77

[Pakistan is a large country with nuclear capabilities. Within sixty years it has already established itself as the Ummah's most powerful member and the most active leader. Its thinkers and leaders are shaping and moulding the Ummah.]

King Faroukh of Egypt said 60 years back, "Pakistanis think Islam was invented on Aug 14, 1947."

I notice the delusion hasn't ended.

harimau, some baniyas in northrop grumman and boing are trying to get in bed with india but if pentagon had its way, it would have little to do with india. its a very unreliable "strategic" partner..with commies and swadeshis in a parliamentary system govt it can never count on anything. pakistan is a much better bet with a determined military and somewhat unified nationalism.

79/#81 Posted by Eklavya

Although Pakistanis can do whatever they want, it is truly tragic that sundry Sindhis, Pakhtoons, Punjabis and everyone else there would want to kill and bomb the very people who are most committed to Pakistan as a state and who have clearly sacrificed the most to build their greatest stake there.

Yes, actually it's beyond tragic. It is quite unbelievable in its ignorance and hubris. I had read that Daily Times Op-Ed too. But, I'm sure that person would have done some serious rethinking since then, just as some interactors on these very boards who held the same views have been rethinking their positions.

HP had asked on the other board as to when have the FATA people listened to reason? I said 1947-2005. He said no, only till 1978. At-least he concedes they were not 'criminals' till 1978 and only turned into that afterwards.

Ref jang #89

[harimau, some baniyas in northrop grumman and boing are trying to get in bed with india but if pentagon had its way, it would have little to do with india. its a very unreliable "strategic" partner..with commies and swadeshis in a parliamentary system govt it can never count on anything. pakistan is a much better bet with a determined military and somewhat unified nationalism.]

The US has long-term strategic planners in every department, including the Pentagon and the State Department. Decisions are taken after analyzing short- medium- and long-term implications.

If the decision to aid India is taken with a short-term view, then the equipment offered would have limited life and limited capabilities. Even then, they would be bugged with software viruses that can be remotely activated to render them useless should the conflict in which they are used does not meet with the approval of the US.

The capabilities may be better if the idea is to support India over the medium term; but the ability to cripple the equipment still remains.

India still will not be able to buy nuclear submarines and submarine-launched ballistic missiles even if it signs a formal treaty of alliance with the US. That was given as an exception to only the UK, not even France.

They have studied Pakistan to death and have concluded it has no chance of surviving as a viable state. Hence, Pakistan will be used as a condom and discarded.

India will be allowed to grow as a counterweight to China, just like China was allowed to grow to counter the Soviet Union. Once China is fractured into several countries just like the Soviet Union was, the US will attempt to dismember India in the same fashion. But that is 50+ years into the future.

India's strategy should be to use the US to grow its capabilities while keeping the country intact.

The first step for that would be to ban all the caste-based or one-state-only parties. Mayawathi and her Bahujan Samaj would have to go. So would the DMK, ADMK, Telugu Desam, etc. That would leave the BJP, the Commies and the pseudo-Commies called the Congress.

That is the bad news for India.

#91 by ISlamIslam

[India will be allowed to grow as a counterweight to China, just like China was allowed to grow to counter the Soviet Union.]

This is a very uninformed, "aam junta" view of how things work in this world. Nobody "allowed" China to grow. The US, with it's economic and geopolitical compulsions, had absolutely no choice. Not that it changed my view, but I used to work with an American guy whose father was pretty high-up and actively involved in diplomatic negotiations with the Chinese for many years. The US actaully grabbed on to the Chinese option like manna from heaven. Similarly, nobody "allowed" India to grow by "aiding" India. Political figures in Washington have only so much power over international trade and commerce. The best they can do in intervene here and there strategically. But for the bulk of it, the big financial corporations shape the trade policies to their own advantage.

#83 Eklavya

[American must realize that Pakistan can make enough of a difference in world affairs to threaten the US or its interests.]

That is as eminently boneheaded as anything I've ever heard. Simply breathtaking in it's boneheadedness.

Astounding.

ajeya, on the other hand, your #92 was pretty good.

1. The US has large but limited powers. It faces its own, economic and geopolitical compulsions, as you put it, particularly against other large players.

2.It can be played like a fiddle by smart, well-placed players, even small ones, like the kosovons and the Israelis.

As would everyone else, the US would LIKE to possess omnipotence, but it doesn't have it. It simply exercises a great deal of influence.

#94 Eklavya

[ajeya, on the other hand, your #92 was pretty good.]

I would much rather that you called it "pretty accurate" than "pretty good".

I think #93 was pretty accurate as well. The fisrt sign of trouble from Pakistan would permanently alienate Pakistan from the US, and pretty much make it THE MOST pariah of nations. Even with all the sucking up that Pakistani establishment does, it is still viewed unfavorably by the West. I have talked to Americans who are fully aware that Pakistan is a "friendly" state only because they are of use to the US for fighting terrorism. Otherwise, Pakistan is popularly known as Terror Central. Any false move by Pakistan and it will be relegated to the shithole for good. And all EU countries would join the bandwagon wholeheartedly. So I don't think Pakistan holds any aces up it's sleeve. Not after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. The US can get to the Caspian oil in many ways. If they have to.

ajeya, for a country like the US there cannot be permanent alienations nor permanent friendships.

Consider what the 'first sign of trouble from Pakistan' (or from any other state) would consist of? Does being played, being double-dealt, constitute sign of trouble? Do you think the US has had at least some inkling of these things over the last decade or so?

Ajeya, like any other state, the US wants to keep its cost of doing business around the world as low as possible. And Pakistan, as an ideological state, with close links to global Islam, can potentially increase or reduce that cost.