Pakistan: The War of Drones

#532 Posted by SR,

Agreed in full. It's nice when differences narrow.

SR# 521

Observations well narrated.

From an Anthropological point of view, our society has come to the verge of extinction. It is at that stage when Darwinian process of Natural Selection starts encompassing the whole specie. There are no two arguments about the fact that for the past 60 years our society has been stagnant in all aspects. Every effort by the society to evolve out of the status quo was crushed by the brute state apparatus. Not only that, but the powers that be, put a system in place which is and has been used in the past to maintain the status quo of corruption, incompetence, and oppression. Pakistan is probably the only country in the world where corrupt and incompetent are respected while honest and deserving are ridiculed. A whole class has emerged that has vested interests in keeping this system stagnant and status quo maintained. This is a clear defiance of God's law of perpetual evolution that ascertains the continuity of life on this planet.

But first time in the history of Pakistan, the brute state machinery has met its match, which is as merciless, as swift and as certain. Only a mentally deranged or a clear enemy of Pakistan and Muslims would be glad at the carnage that this anti-state element is wreaking upon the state machinery and innocent who caught in cross-fire but I am sure that you will not find it callous if I say that this is the only leverage that that segment of Pakistani society has who wish to change the status quo of oppression and stagnation against the forces of darkness and oppression. In other words, the message to the oppressive ruling elite is that either change or become guillotined (extinct). Yes it is ironic and paradoxical that the agent that is so hell bent on destroying the state infrastructure has also become the agent of change. The carnage will continue and it will intensify unless we make ourselves convinced that old way of doing business cannot go on, but rather it will make us extinct.

Our safety, prosperity, and guarantee to pass this phase of Natural Selection lies in the choices that we make today. Unfortunately our choices are very limited and very painful. Yes it is akin to chopping off your own gangrenous leg of which we have been so comfortably used to having for so long, but it has become necessary for the survival of the specie, Our choices are:

1. Re-enact deposed judiciary and establish a transparent judicial process.
2. Dictator and his cohorts must be deposed and tried in court of law for their crimes against Constitution and people of Pakistan.
3. Send the Army back to barracks.
4. Compensate people of Baluchistan, Waziristan, relatives of martyred children of jamia Hafsa School and Swat according to the principles of Qisas and Diyat along with a state apology for the crimes committed against them by state machinery.
5. Americans and NATO be told to shove their WOT and get lost.
6. Establish a fair, impartial and judicious Election commission as agreed by all political parties.
7. Hold election and establish representative government and rule of law.

Either do that or be Extinct.

Re: # 527 GT re: "Punjabi elite" and the army

There is a substantial over-lap between the "army" and the so-called Punjabi elite (well, if masadi can have his US elite, why can I not have my Punjabi elite?)...

Sixty percent of the senior army officers (those who had received their commission by or before 1980) are legal domicile holders of Lahore city. Almost three fouths of all officers are Punjabi while Punjab is only about half the country's population. Punjab is to Pakistan, for all practical purposes, what Serbia was to Yugoslavia.

The Punjabi elite's disenchantment with the dictator is just a passing fad. The honeymoon may be over with this one as he seems to have over-stayed his welcome, but wait a while and you'll see the dramma repeat itself. The interests of the Punjabi elite (indeed most Pakistani elite) are more closely aligned with the interests of the army than any other group or party.

The only way out is to disband the army and that will not happen until the present federal power structure remains intact. The state, in other words, IS the army and the army the state. In order for one to weaken (or die), the other must also be crippled (or killed).

...SR

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SR: "of the man who had an untreatable headache that no medicine could cure. Finally a surgeon figuered out that his balls pushed up so hard that it gave him a headache. Castration was suggested as a treatment. The man considered his options and reluctantly agreed because the headache was constant and unbearable.

A few months after the operation his clothes got tight as feminization of his emasculated body began and he gained fat around the hips. Somebody recommended him to a world famous tailor who could make flattering clothes for the ugliest figuers.

When the tailor saw the design of his underwear, he said to the man, "Oh, please never wear these kind of underwear. They'll push your balls up so hard that you'll get a severe headache."

...was this man an expat pakistani consultant living in michigan, by any chance........

Re: # 529 zeemax Re: tearing up the state

I still believe that the federal state is the real enemy. The center should be severely cut back to size. The federation abolished and a loose con-federation put in sits place. The more power devolves to the people in regional and local units, the more just and fair the system will ultimately become.

A strong central state is incompatible with liberty and justice.

...SR

ajeya, from the partition fiasco to communal riots to violence against ethinic, caste based and other minorities, Modern India doesn't really have a sellar reputation in "ahimsa" non-sense....

there is a misconception among the jihadis that non-muslims would still idly by and watch their livlihood ururped by allah's warriors. non-muslims, as I have been saying, are smarter, richer, stronger, more in number, and have institutional backing to fight islamists.

One suicide bomb in a mall in the US, would mean, the end of Iran as we know it. When the nuclear winter wears off in Mecca, jewish kids will go ice skating on Lake Mecca with kaaba as the local Hot Dog stand.

islamists should have fought the battle with the other muslims first, get insitutionalized and then taken on the non-muslims...they done fk'ed up. they went in the reverse order and are now getting spanked from philippines to amreeka.

Re: # 525 Mohammad Hamid ["... so you too are recommending capitulation and appeasement ...]

No one wants or recommends surrender. That is a very BLACK and WHITE view of the situation. "Either you are with us, or you are against us." Let's grow up a bit and appreciate the shades of grey.

This should have been seen as a law enforcement issue from the start and not as a "WAR" between "Good and Evil."

Europe has dealt with terrorism for three decades and their approach has been a mature one with basically satisfactory outcomes. It's only this new round of "terrorism" where the US got involved and Mr Bush made a bad situation worse by first misdiagnosing it and on top of that by prescribing the wrong medicine for a potentially fatal disease that should otherwise be controlable, if not curable.

Reminds me of the joke of the man who had an untreatable headache that no medicine could cure. Finally a surgeon figuered out that his balls pushed up so hard that it gave him a headache. Castration was suggested as a treatment. The man considered his options and reluctantly agreed because the headache was constant and unbearable.

A few months after the operation his clothes got tight as feminization of his emasculated body began and he gained fat around the hips. Somebody recommended him to a world famous tailor who could make flattering clothes for the ugliest figuers.

When the tailor saw the design of his underwear, he said to the man, "Oh, please never wear these kind of underwear. They'll push your balls up so hard that you'll get a severe headache.

All the man actually needed was to replace his underwear. Instead he got himself castrated.

THAT is what I am saying we should avoid. I don't want the constant headache any more than you do. I just value my balls, that's all.

...SR

#521 Posted by SR is a surprise considering his previous and fairly recent stand on the issue (I think he had suggested separating all regions west of Indus from Pakistan and let them do what they want). Though it would be fair to take this post at face value for the time being.

#474 CreateAlpha

[Remember, chinkoos and even hinjews have killed millions of their own people...]

Really, "hin"jews have done that? That's a real gap in my knowledge. Where was that now? When?

#521 Posted by SR:

Dear SR,

That was a very good write-up. Following HPs artice, I have come to understand that the fight over the piece of pie is now between the army, businessman (Punjabi?) and the jihadi/Taliban groups (if you care, you may see my interact on HPs board). The events in Lahore, as you describe, is consistent with this understanding.

Right now the Punjabi elites may be against the dictator but that does not necessarily mean that they are against the army. What kinds of coalitions will form amongst these groups is something tobe seen.

Re: # 521

Those who accept the Islami logic of 9/11 as a 'legitimate reaction' to foreign policy of western governments are bound to justify and accept the logic of lahore blasts as a 'legitimate reaction' to government's policies!!!

Re: # 521

SR,

.... so you too are recommending capitulation and appeasement ......

does this mean that your wife and daughter are willing to wear the burka and go to jinnah super only if accompanied by you ?....... you might want to check with them before you surrender

#423 Eklavya

[ajeya, as a faithful Muslim I get far more than I get as a faithful Christian.

In both cases I am assured of a great afterlife, although Islamic afterlife, you as an unbeliever would yourself agree - seems far more interesting and attractive.

But the real difference lies in what I get right here, in this mortal life. I get a far more detailed blueprint for living from God, an extremely rich communal life, and much much more important than ANYTHING ELSE in this life, the absolute assurance in all my political ambitions or disagreements and fights with others, I have God Himself on my side, that I am right by divine definition, and will ultimately win because that is God's own plan.

And God just does not whisper this favor in my ears. He actually has his other faithfuls politically swing to my side, and offer moral support far more often than were I merely a Christian.

Since life is full of political problems all the time, that is a blessing of immeasurable proportions.

As a faithful Christian, I get none of that. A Christian God is far less generous. And his followers, half the time, can't decice whom to help in case of a fight. Please understand, I need security, I need power, and I need a divine plan for both.

Did I tell you, this Christian God is a most boring fellow, almost, next only to the Hindu whatever it is that they talk about among themselves.]

I am rather disappointed by your answer, after all the buildup from AlephNull. I was expecting something profound and earth-shattering - some incisive piece of wisdom that would "point me gently in the right direction". No such luck.

So let's see.

In both cases I am assured of a great afterlife, although Islamic afterlife, you as an unbeliever would yourself agree - seems far more interesting and attractive.

Wrong. It is not a question of what I think - remember? It is a question of what the person of "faith" gets. Ask any true Christian believer - they like THEIR version of afterlife MUCH MORE than the Islamic version.

I get a far more detailed blueprint for living from God, an extremely rich communal life, and much much more important than ANYTHING ELSE in this life, the absolute assurance in all my political ambitions or disagreements and fights with others, I have God Himself on my side, that I am right by divine definition, and will ultimately win because that is God's own plan.

Wrong again. The Christian faithful finds HIS communal life far richer, and "knows" that God is on THEIR side in all THEIR "political ambitions or disagreements and fights with others".

And God just does not whisper this favor in my ears. He actually has his other faithfuls politically swing to my side, and offer moral support far more often than were I merely a Christian.

Wrong yet again. Take some time and listen to the Christian tele-evangelists sometimes. They match the Muslims in nuttiness in all respects. And they vote down the party line as well - Mike Huckabee won three states in the South SOLELY on their votes.

The main difference is that fewer Christains are as rabid beleivers as the born-agains and the other assorted groups, and their role model is a non-violent Christ as opposed to a violent person like muhammad.

I'm thoroughly underwhelmed by your response. I kind of expected this, but I guess AlephNull had built up by expectations that there is going to be some substance behind your assertions.

I guess not.

Hamidm Sahib:

From the war of drones to "On the verge of creating synthetic life".

Please review this talk by Craig Venter - the man who did the human genome -

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/227

Each year my classmate, the interviewer, from that educational institution organizes TED.

Can you explain to me where this knowledge is taking the humans, and where Islamic red-necks like Massaddi Mian can take? What blinds these red-necks, is Craig Venter new Allah to these new life forms that he is creating?

Sorry for the double click... I didn't mean to post it twice