The Irreverent Hero Islam Forgot

Re: # 35

tahmed,

.... please wake me up when this 'glorious revolution' is complete and william and mary ascend the throne in islamabad ....... for now, i guess we have to make do with the archduke of multan, makhdoom yousaf raza gilani (ra) ....... the other archduke, makhdoom amin fahim of sindh, is not a happy camper and if he could get the duke of karachi to back him him he might try and raise an army to march on islamabad ....... but the duke of karachi, altaph bhai who is in exile in london, has thrown his support behind the king of dubai, asif zardari ..... it also seems that le dauphin bilawal, has made his way from oxford to islamabad to do show support for king asif ........ with all of this, it seems that the present monarch is not in any real danger unless the king's party and the army turns on him ....... the navy is still busy with clearing the rubble in lahore .......

hamidm: i guess i was too circumpspect. Let me be blunt then:

Discussing ancient books (per this article) at a time when a real life Glorious Revolution is underway in Pakistan is like discussing cricket while engaged in sex.

#32 Posted by Eklavya,

I see you noticed the guy with the biggest 'Gurz'in #17 who's defeated and joins Hamza's army ...

Is it really such a 'fairy tale'? LoL!

Re: # 28

tahmed,

.... you are really loosing it ........ what does holbrooke have to do with the prophet's uncle and the fairies of koh-i-kaaf .......... your obsession with mushy is getting just as bad as mad masadi's obsession with the us elite ....... are you saying that holbrooke thinks mushy is hamza's reincarnation - you will have to ask eklavya about this possibility ........

zee, cheema ji probably understands that! :)

I was just floored by the beauty and the brevity of the expression whose meaning we know so well: of ruling the world with the help of a single 'army of partners,' in which all vanquished and the defeated join the SAME army as soldier-partners.

This almost solves all problems of rebellion, desertion, abandonment, and lack of focus.

Zee, there is nothing remotely like this in Indic tradtions (may be some Hindu can correct me on that).

So, this does seem to be a purely Islamic imagination and piece of work (Christians might have something similar with their 'march of Christ's soldiers' idea. But then they don't have the Quran. The Bible seems nothing like the Quran.)

---------------------

Cheema ji #22, wow, again!

While the logic is simplicity itself, the details and manifestations and expressions are so many, so diverse, and so rich that in order to enjoy their beauty one would probably need 'a few lifetimes'! Will try to at least skim through some stuff. Many, many thanks. :)


-------------

khurram bhai, Indians have no real reason to read this stuff, unless they happen to be a crazy bunch like me. They have their own mirror image of literature. Even that, they don't mostly read (Chowk, though, has some very knowledgeable people.)

Just curious, how many Indian non-muslims read this while growing up?

A complete translation by Frances Pritchett is available online at
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00litlinks/hamzah/index.html

Eklavya,

I don't find any contradictions in either Dastaan-e-Amir Hamza or Arabian nights from the basic teachings of Islam!

If these murtids aka ekcheema etc ever tried to look at the 'system' and how it operates over time, particularly in times of peace and in times of conflict, they would know better.

hamidm: discussing ancient books is like discussing philosophy while ..to put it gently..engaged in the act of procreation. There is a revolution going on in Pakistan. Here is Holbrooks now starting to say what I have been ranting about for years on chowk.

Richard Holbrooke (perhaps the most astute and realistic US diplomat and democrat) finally seems to be understanding what any true Pakistani (as opposed to those who spend their time berating fellow Pakistanis) knew all along!!

Hope in Pakistan
The Problems Are Real, but So Is the Progress
By Richard Holbrooke
Friday, March 21, 2008; Page A17

..the return of a vibrant democratic process ..They have formed a Pakistani version of a grand coalition...Since Musharraf's real power base was as military commander, when he "took off his uniform" last year, it turned out that his residual power as president was largely ceremonial..Another positive straw in the wind is the poor showing of the overtly religious parties in February's elections -- they got only 4 percent of the total vote. In the volatile tribal areas near the Afghan border, where the Taliban and al-Qaeda have had a sanctuary from NATO operations in Afghanistan, the Muslim parties were shut out..But Pakistan..is too big and its civil society -- with its deeply established political parties, its free press, its vibrant and very visible lawyers, its thousands of nongovernmental organizations, its huge business community, and its own moderate Muslim leaders -- too extensive to in fact become "the world's most dangerous nation."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0 3/20/AR2008032003016.html

Re: # 26

tahmed,

... uh?.... your mush fixation is getting out of hand ..... this board is discussing the exploits of amir hamza, your prophet's uncle .... i remember my grand mother telling me stories about how amir hamza went to koh-i-kaaf to free husn pari from the chungals of the zalim jinn ....... are you suggesting that mushy is the zalim jinn and the cj is the husn pari - the man does look like a fairy and mush has that evil look ...... okay, so i agree with you and you don't need to reply to this post ........ i am sure masadi will be here soon to blame the rape of the fairies of koh-i-kaaf on the us elite and jayp will blame it on us poor pakis ........ so what else is new?

send the pakistani hosni mubarak-wannabe to tibet!!

BOYCOTT CHINA. STOP CHINESE HEGEMONY. FREE TIBET.

i think it would seem to be accurate to say that the daastaan e amir hamza is definitely a pan-islamic work of fantasy literature; hazrat sayyid al shuhada hamza ibn abd al muttalib al hashmi (may Allah be well pleased with him) was the uncle of the Prophet Muhammad alayhisalatuwasalam but he was martyred in one of the earlier battles. I wonder how his legendary exploits on the battlefield became transformed into this tale of epic proportions?

I can't wait to buy it and read it!

Re: # 21

P.S.: Since you happen to be so deep in Islamic religious teachings at present - or probably always have been - one such example of chinese whispers can be found in Shia mythology. Around "Ashoora" in early Muharram (beginning of Islamic year), Hussain (grandson of Mohammed)'s battle of "Karbala" fought(?) with the Yezidian army is narrated ad-nauseum by "Zaakirs"; the colourful narrations, mutually contradictory at times, are just so fasinating; if only Hussain (or Mohammed for that matter) had any idea! One can only wonder!

Do read the "Arabian nights - Alif Laila, i.e., One thousand and One nights". Absolutely fascinating with, at times, explicit accounts of "high-breasted virgins" having it off with "black slaves"! If you can't read it in Arabic or Urdu, I recommend Richard Burton's translation in classic English; most interesting read.

Cheers.

Re: # 20; Eklavya bhai,

I haven't read this particular book but the comments I made earlier were based on by childhood readings, mostly in Urdu and Persian (via a granparent). These characters, I reckon, developed and evolved rather than created on the spot by one author.

If you read Persian literature, especially what permeated into the western part and parts of northern Pakistan (the Kailash velley, e.g.,), there are folk tales of "Iskander", a mythological character based on "Alexander - the Macedonian". Characters evolve, and eventually through many generations of Chinese whispers, turn into totally different people.

My understing about "Daastan-e-Amir Hamza" is it is of Persio-Turkic origin but I am happy to stand corrected on this.

I think sometimes it is good to just enjoy the work rather than split hairs and perhaps leave that to the "Dan Browns" to find hidden agendas/meanings etc. As one of my favourite authors Douglas Adams said:

"Isn't it enough to see that the garden is beautiful than having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"