The Irreverent Hero Islam Forgot

masadi #65 g'lost.

Re: # 65

sweet dreams, sweet prince - don't forget to look under your bed for the us elite and other demons .......

zeemax,

..... one more thing - if zia-ul-haq had a protege, it was nawaz sharif ......... if the first khalifa had lived probably would have handed over the khilafat to his handmaiden ....... but i am willing to give him the benfit of doubt hoping that he has learned a lesson from his past follies and attempt to get installed as amir-ul-momineen ....... compared to him cowasjee is just a low level collaborator ......

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hamid writes "....... unfortunately, my parent's brand of islam is dead or dying and today's resurgent islam is correctly represented by people like urstruly and zeemax ...... "

Last I read your dimwitted posts, your blanket condemnation of Islam went back in history much further than the 1950s and 1960s, you were taking your BS blanket condemnations all the way back to the time of the prophet, now when your parents are involved, you do a turnaround....reminds me of how Bush used the gassing of Halabja to justify attacking Saddam in 2003! ....keep it up hypocrite

Re: # 61

zeemax,

.... let's not go there ..... he is not talking about institutions, he is talking about people ..... and if you are talking about people who hobnobbed with zina-ul-fuck, let's not forget that both nawaz sharif and yousaf gilani belong in that category - both earned their wings under the abu bakr of pakistan ...... let's move on

akcheema ji, thanks for the ton of information you provided. You raised so many points that I must beg your indulgence in not addressing them all right now. Allow me to make only a couple of points, which we may, if they interst you at all, discuss over time.

1. By far, most importantly, I would re-iterate for the nth time (and hope you would give this serious consideration): Islam's ideal is NOT blind belief. One can easily rank order the preferred form of Islamic beliefs as follows:

(1) Considered, thoroughly questioned, belief wherein one discovers for one's private self SOME WY/ANY WAY to answer natural human questions to re-affirm faith in Islam. This is the much-celebrated "no-church" (knowledge-based) view.

(2) One follows a wali, a learned person, who has understood Islam, and one is therefore certain that one is on the right path by following such a person. This is the sufi (love-based) view.

(3) One really doesn't get into the specifics of Islam and considers all must be right, and focuses on matters of day-to-day living. This is probably the 'vast majority' (good-life or action-based) view.

(4) One gets caught up with black bakra charms and even blacker handi objects. Many knowledgeable Muslims will call that the superstititious and ignorant (kufr-based) view.

(5) Some people born in Islamic world, for whatever personal reasons, can't accept 1-4. But sooner or later they come to fully realize that all opposition is futile; and then they settle down to a life of private grumblings, smart-alec comments when they feel safe, and fake public smiles and pretense of adherences to Islam in view of friends and family. These people count for nothing, but if they achieve anything, immediately their achievements are celebrated as Islamic achievements.

1-5 are perfectly acceptable forms of Islam, and all those who follow them are ultimately 'good and acceptable' Muslims. However,

(6) Some, again for whatever reasons, are unable to stay even at level of Islamic belief, and begin to publicly oppose Islam itself (not other peoples' "interpretation" or understanding of Islam).

Islam cuts off these people's reproductory system.

----- This has gotten longer than I expected. Will address the rest of the points later, if you don't completely lose patience. Best regards.--------

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zee boss, only a fool and a Hindu will read all this as just pure fiction and bed-side entertainment.

#57 Posted by hamidm2,

As usual you're evading the main argument. How dare this senile old fool ridicule democratic institutions for misdeeds of the past while himself having hobnobbed in the past with people like zina-ul-fuck who flogged journalists - during this fool's tenure as an unelected federal minister - and hanged the elected prime minister?

That was the question.

hamidm: apologize for what? i didnt specify your parents, and as i said you did mention some ultra-conservative relatives as examples. if you tell me that in fact it is not their brand of islam that you criticize, then that is a change from what you wrote earlier.

if your parents version of islam is dying, you are certainly contributing to it by denying it the same legitimacy that you give to urstruly's brand.

akcheema sahib: sleep well sir, and take good care of your patients tomorrow. i am not pushing any beliefs on you (how could i even if i wanted to?). but if you are going to jump onto the bandwagon of long-dead hypocrites in the vatican jeering the prophet's personal life, i have a right to put things in perspective. which is what i did in #51 and which i hope you will keep in mind next time you get the urge to jump on the bandwagon along with some head-shaking dot-wearing hi-b from madras.

#53 Posted by hamidm2,

With due respect, did your revered mom (May Allah bless her) also throw saffron colour on you playing holi holi?

Re: # 54

zeemax,

.... i sincerely hope the senile old fool is wrong, but i am still a little sceptical that these leopards can change their spots .....

Re: # 55

tahmed,

....... unfortunately, my parent's brand of islam is dead or dying and today's resurgent islam is correctly represented by people like urstruly and zeemax ...... when i was growing up wahabis were considered to be a small cult and people whispered about them - today it is the dominant strain of the islam virus ......

....... i still demand an apology

hamidm: OK, i'll admit that i was too stressed with exams once to take advantage of an outstanding opportunity for committing vice that literally walked into my room. however, i am slandered by your innuendo that i am incapable of vice. in fact, the time i waste on chowk is proof is a vice!!

ok, so your illustrious father was not one of the ultraconservatives, nor did i mention him particularly. but you did mention once some relations like that more than one time.

coming to your mom - that is a different story. She is obviously an example of the Islam I am talking about. Is her understanding of Islam in any way less valid than that of a muslim version of jeremiah wright??!! In fact, she is exactly the way my elders were - kind and gentle people. So next time you get the urge to claim that islam drives people to become criminals, tht i am in fact not the mainstream, think of your mom and dad and how you are turning them into non-persons when you claim that only urstruly represents islam.

I rest my case.

#43 Posted by hamidm2,

cowasjee - he has been around longer than even you and he says, "yeh sala sub chore hai" ....

Sure. He's been around long enough to have been in zina-ul-fuck's cabinet as federal shipping minister.

This senile bugger is only pissed because no other government took him seriously ... ignored as a buffoon ... just as one hamidm2 of chowk.com.

Re: # 51

tahmed, bewakoof!

"it is muslims like yourself and hamidm, who (as you yourselves have indicated) both seem to have been raised in ultra-conservative families are so are revolting against it as adults. "

..... how the hell did you figure that out ?..... that is slander and i have half a mind to sue you for slandering my father and mother (god bless their souls) ..... my father, in particular, must be turning in his grave! ... other than twice a year when, after a hectic search, he put on his karakul cap and headed off to the ghq ground to offer his eid prayers behind ayub khan, yahya khan and bhutto khan, the man left god and his prophet alone ...... he also liked his scotch and i suspect he made a decent second income playing bridge .... his most famous quote is, "anyone who does not have a vice is either an angel or a chutiya!" ......i think that he had people like you in mind when he made that comment ....... and my mother was a spiritual person, but hers was a benign form of islam that revolved around halwa, kheer, chahar shamba, shab-i-barat, zarda and mounting blackened handis on the roof or sacrificing black bakras to ward off evil spirits .....

..... i demand an apology for insulting the memory of my parents