The Irreverent Hero Islam Forgot

Eki yaar, you are still beating the flat drum? Ever consider that the rest of the 5/6th of humanity has drawn parity between between their god and muslim god, regardless of what tampax types think? tampax's god is no better ro worse than the elephant riding a rat. and the tampax types have been unable to do anything about it.

Manto writes "The facts of history show something quite different actually. But then facts are never your forte. "

A cheap and shallow excuse in the typical "mullah" fashion it is for this reason that I call you the high priest of the church of maj. Facts mean nothing to the mullah, all that matters to him are worship, devotion and his narrow formulae.

If you can show me that Pakistan was obtained by mass armed struggle by the people after evicting the colonials, who would rather stay, like Vietnam for example or that Pakistan chose the path of non alignment thereafter, then and only then will facts not be on my side...

Re: # 304

Masadi
The "facts" of history show that the colonials were more than happy to fragment India, reduce the political clout of the Muslims of India and work with the elites in Pakistan to get us to where we are at.:)

I do so agree masadi.

Re: # 304

Masadi mian,

The facts of history show something quite different actually. But then facts are never your forte.

But as you say this is a futile discussion as you are not ready to open your mind to facts other than those divinely revealed to you.

Good day.

Manto quoting Ambedkar "Secondly, it forgets that Mr. Jinnah, who represents this ideological transformation, can never be suspected of being a tool in the hands of the British even by the worst of his enemies. "


Manto, I'll keep this as civil as possible given the discussion. First you provide a quotation which the way that the author puts it is his own opinion and has nothing to do with the "facts of history" as you claim. The "facts" of history show that the colonials were more than happy to fragment India, reduce the political clout of the Muslims of India and work with the elites in Pakistan to get us to where we are at. These are the glaring facts which no historian worth the name can deny. Given this basic premise when we note that Jinnah was a facilitator and not opposer to what transpired in the creation of Pakistan, as a thinking person I and many others are justified in considering him a tool (be it for his own ego) in the hands of the colonials.

Further, you can invoke as much "peace" as you want on him, the fact remains that in life (as in death given a just God), the person who is responsible, be it implicitly or indirectly for the butchering of so many (for his personal ego), will never find much peace.

I rest my case on this and do not want to rediscuss this over the entire board with you adding nothing and me repeating the same fact, well known facts in differnt words. Now, you go in peace.....

Ref: akcheema, Majumdar discussion

There are two statements... which I think sum it up. One by H V Hodson and the other by Dr. B R Ambedkar .. which might explain why Majumdar bhai and I use (PBUH) for Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah.

"One thing is certain, it was not for any venal motive that he changed. Not even his political enemies ever accused Jinnah of corruption or self seeking. He could be bought by no one and for no price. Nor was he in the least degree a weathercock, swinging in the wind of popularity or changing his politics to suit the chances of the time. He was a steadfast idealist, as well as a man of scrupulous honour." (Page 39- Great Divide)


and

From Pakistan or Partition of India by Dr. B R Ambedkar - the author of Indian constitution:

"Secondly, it forgets that Mr. Jinnah, who represents this ideological transformation, can never be suspected of being a tool in the hands of the British even by the worst of his enemies. ..... it is doubtful if there is a politician in India to whom the adjective incorruptible can be more fittingly applied. Anyone who knows what his relations with the British Government have been, will admit that he has always been their critic, if indeed, he has not been their adversary. No one can buy him. For it must be said to his credit that he has never been a soldier of fortune. The customary Hindu explanation fails to account for the ideological transformation of Mr. Jinnah."


Those who wish to abuse Jinnah, should go right ahead but one should not stop others from holding a point of view which is rooted in history.

"God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same and they should get together and jointly rule over others unless the latter agree and learn to worship the same God."


vrv,

romair and his fellows have been arguing that from the rooftops ever since 9/11, and diehard semitics from even before that.

The king is just a little slow on the uptake.
---------------------

vrv

When a Muslim tells a non-Muslim that 'we all worship the same God,' the non-Muslim, if he or she understands any theology, should run like hell (unless he or she prefers other options that I do not recommend).

This is how the argument goes:

We all worship the same God.

That God sent his last and most up-to-date and best preserved message,

in the form of the Quran, through Prophet Muhammad,

so all of mankind may now follow Islam alone, unless they have closed hearts or out of deliberate mischief choose to ignore that one God's instructions,

in which case they should be allowed to live on under certain conditions.

Re: # 300

masadi saab, we all love you saab not just kulharee

A new ilog has been posted

----end of public service message---

Re: # 298

sorry sir masaddi saab

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An important point majumdar brought up in response to my ilog on Saminakhan stating that one of my gallery items was inappropriate because it was a scanned newspaper clipping:

majumdar writes "But it didn't seem to me that Saminakhan was encouraging censorship of your article"

Masadi: Yes she was. She was advocating "self censorship" by me by stating that it was out of place and inappropriate, so I should refrain from making such gallery postings in the future. This is similar to what Musharraf advocates when he calls for a "responsible" (i.e. self censoring according to the parameters of the Pakistan Army/US), media....


----End of public-service message -----

self fulfilment

anil writes "Please learn the difference between "public service" and "self-service". "

Some people find self-fulillment and self service in furthering the cause of humanity, i.e. in public service....now get off my goddamned case you miserable punk...

Re: # 280

Massaddi Mian:

"... ----end of public service message---- ..."

You made a mistake. It should have been
"----end of self-serving message----"

Please learn the difference between "public service" and "self-service".