The Irreverent Hero Islam Forgot

Re: # 83 & 88; Tahir and Zeemax;
"These people, I don't know what to call them, have no basic 'respect' and they're supposed to be liberals".

That is a pure oversight; I am not the world's fastest typist. Same is true for hindu/christian/judaism etc; sometimes I get it right, sometimes I don't; I can assure you its not deliberate and DOES NOT have covert meaning/feelings etc. Besides i am severely dyslexic too.

My apologies.

However, if we are still in the domain of penis-envy, I'd try to take extra care from now on.

And I'd try to spell it Qur'an; is that acceptable?

zeemax: why do u call zia al haqq (a man I do not and never did like) --a disgusting name of zina-al-fuck? i would have thought a nihilist-wahabi-terrorist-sympathiser like you would
have liked the man who, more than anyone else, was responsible for the rise of this extremist deobandi-wahabi strain of islam in pakistan.

and even if u don't like him--why call him disgusting names? its not terribly islamic is it? oh yeh, i forgot. for wobblers like u islam is not about devotion to allah and his messenger but all about killing and political power...

oops!

p.s. i am all for this gilani fellow--by his name i guess he must a descendent of sayyidina ghawth al azam shaykh sayyid abd al qadir al jilani al baghdadi, the greatest of all the sufi saints of islam?

also, i saw this interview with musharraf on geo tv the other day and--well i LIKED the guy. despite his mistakes he genuinely seems to be a straight-forward guy who wants the best for pakistan. i hope he is allowed to stay...

Re: # 114

naqshbandi,

..... you are a good man ........if all muslims were like you and my mother i would be okay with being a muslim ..... unfortunately, she is dead and you are a dying breed ... these damn wahabis are what islam is all about nowdays ... even the koranist tahmed is a wahabi-in-waiting with his absolutist 'everything is in the book' nonsense .... what happened to that live and let live islam ???

... look me up if you are ever in detroit - maybe we will go and visit sheikh kabbani who has a large following among the lebanese in this area .......

#111 akcheema: you listened to a qawwali, but you ignored (or at least did not comment on) the perfectly rational and intellectually honest explanation of the concept of God that i had presented on another board.

wrt the bubble that is human life: you say this sounds nihilistic, but in fact it is anything but that when you consider that you are part of a much bigger and grander scheme of things.

Re: # 114

Naqshbandi sahib:

"...despite his mistakes he genuinely seems to be a straight-forward guy who wants the best for pakistan...."

Believe it or not, I have the same feelings when I watch Musharraff, and honestly I cannot say that I feel the same about Zardari or Nawaz. His innings is over, let see how is his exit.

hamidm: so naqshbandi sees mush on tv and he comes across as an honest guy and you offer him beer!! no wonder arjun believes pakistanis are inbred retards.

anil sahib: mush wants to know if you would like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge from him.

So a guy who saved pakistan from being bombed back to the stone age is worse than a set of corrupt and insiduously inept feudals like zardari and nawab. Tahmed yaar, socho kuch

Re: # 116 tahmed
you make it sound a lot worse than it is; I am referring to a childhood experience so please judge it at that level.

What you seem to forget is, I discovered CHOWK via a google search looking for "dissent/apostasy/Irtad" in the Muslim world; it took me to Gill Sahib's article on Bulleh Shah.

Listen to the qawwali if you don't mind, the full version. Also Nusrat Fateh's "tum ek gorakh dhandha ho", and give me your take on those. Fel free to e-mail me and I can give you my direct e-mail; best not irritate people here who want to discuss paki-politics rather than the intricacies of theology!

#120 CreateAlpha: no drama-baazi please.

cheema sahib: chowkies are a catholic lot, as much at home in pakistan politics as in theology. (i dont know why i am being so positive, must be something i ate).

but seriously, i have no problem with discussing dissent, apostasy etc. what are you dissenting against?

Re: # 115

Mian Hamidm2,

Before you go all mush-mush over the Naqshbandi, be advised that he is on record that there is a legitimate distinction to be made between dar-ul-Islam versus the other kind of dar-ul. And the size of your booze bottle very much depends on which side of the divide you fall into. That divide is supposed to travel unidirectionally, and if brother Kaal is to be believed, is virtually unstoppable!

Re: # 123; tahmed

that is what i mean...its wasn't about me but to get material for an article i was writing elsewhere...drop me a line if you want; btw, I am quite secure where i am as i am sure you are too; it is more about our culture, country etc being hijacked by vile islamists

Unfortunately, it is hard for me to keep repeating myself time and again as the context to this began a while ago; so if you have any queries about the details of my disbelief, feel free to drop me a line...

Re: # 124; bjkumar bhai
"That divide is supposed to travel unidirectionally, and if brother Kaal is to be believed, is virtually unstoppable!"

THAT is what I have been talking about here all this time!

Re: # 123; also tahmed bhai

My "leaving faith" had almost nothing to do with the current political atmosphere, especially since 9/11. I left because I found this whole gobeldeegook intellectually unbearable and by anyone's standards a complete farce.

My current interest has everything to do with the present day atmosphere though; I felt the least I could do was to speak out about it and this may allow others to have the courage too who felt the same way (you really didn't read my interacts from the start, did you?).

Cheema sahib,

Many of my Pakistani brothers and sisters on this site have a rather simplistic way of looking at an issue. They look for salvation coming from a farishta-like strong father figure – and if they could somehow rejuvenate the Jinnah that will be just fine – to deliver them from the problems.

“If only that shaks were around – hai Allah, what a different place we would be living in!” (Long breath!)

In the same vein, they also look for individuals (preferably a single individual) to blame for Pakistan’s ills.

“Ya Allah, ye kaise bakery ko hamara ruler bana diya! Aghar ye nahiN hota to baat hi kuchh aur thi!” (Long breath!)

Mushy seems to be the current “goat” for some people. It is conveniently forgotten that he could have – had he wanted – become a Saddam or even God forbid – a Zia-ul-Haq!

There are certain advantages to such a simplistic thinking!

It makes it highly convenient to look away from the systemic weaknesses which create those goats in the first place!