The Vicious Circle of Violence

Re: # 153
Pmishr2..
If you seriously believe that ancient traditions "vanish" because islam has some intrinsic wonderfulness...

Ans: Yes sir...The wonder you look into some nice statistics from Transparency International etc...

http://www.masada2000.org/nobel.html

#153 by pmishra2

Mishra bhai, Aleph is indeed being sarcastic. If you didn't know his views (he is perhaps an Indian Christian), you should read his earlier interacts.

#143 alephNull

I assume your response is a joke or some weak attempt at irony. If you seriously believe that ancient traditions "vanish" because islam has some intrinsic wonderfulness, than you are maybe mentally ill and probably quite dangerous even when unarmed.

Your response is actualy a vivid demonstration how some aspects of islamic ideology is quite close to nazi ideology or extreme forms of communism. Each of these extremisms pretends that it has some special answer to all our problems that is unique and involves complete obliteration of the "other" side. Exactly the kind of thing you have put forward...

Re: # 139
Pmishra2...
islam definitely has a supremacist side - it
Ans: Those who are not confident (...rather knows that it is BS) , try to impose. Bad teacher uses cane very frequently....The method adopted by Muhammed was quite simple and Quoran is ideal for any criminal gangster to succed...

Re: # 143
Ali:-
...and willingly embraced the Religion of Peace and Justice.

Ans: If that would have been true, Muhammed need not had to invade Medina,Mecca...

Re: # 143
Al...

Coming next on Chowk FP: the great Islamic egalitarianism as the finest of al-Islam's manifold contributions to South Asia.

Ans: Gautam Budhdha had spread that very effectively without any violence...
If as prince, he can leave all his wealth and lead a life of Vikshuk (not exactly shabby as beggar), so can anybody.

Egalitarian view from a economically poor looter does not look very good from human social value system (Loot other's propery,enjoy part of it and distribute amongst poors...Instant heroism..clap,clap,clap...But those who generate wealth and process of generating excellence stops...)

Re: # 143
Ale...
When the light of the True Faith arrived there a little more than a millennium ago, tolerant and humane Islamic rulers gave all facilities for benighted Buddhists and Hindus to continue to practice their outworn creeds.

Ans: ...and destroyed the monasteries and temples PEACEFULLY in Afghanisthan/Pakisthan (whatever remained in remote hilly areas survived)...this PEACEFUL spread of Islam should happened before the islamic invastion... But Pakistan and Persia experienced different story...First sword and then PEACEFUL spread of Islam....

Re: # 147

Laddu, you are doing us more harm than good.

After elections , the Jaza-e-Jehad has increased amongst Paki momeens.
The script that has been implanted in their minds would run it's inevitable course.

More attacks on indian cities is expected from Paki momeens. More attacks are also expected on cities in west- especially Europe.

It would only stop unless Pakistan is dismantled!!

Re# 144

Hindus in Inida are killing humans before they are born. Muslims in Pakistan are killing humans after they are born. The killings must stop for the sake of humanity!

haideri

Re: # 144

This cult of Mohammadeism is a virus of insanity that needs to be cured by opening mental asylums in Pakistan!! It has no cure, and the affected Islamists need to be incarcerated.
UN needs to fund a huge project on this in Pakistan.

AN #143
"There is absolutely no contradiction between the peaceful and tolerant nature of Islam and the relative absence of other religious traditions in Afghanistan and in the North-West of the Indian subcontinent."
Wah! Wah!! Peaceful treatment of Ahmdadi's and Bahai faiths and tolerance in Saudi Arabia towards bringing of Hanuman Idols are very strong arguments in favor of your QED
You also failed to mention that only way for someone in peaceful Islamic counteries to renounce Islam as faith is through grave. Very strong proof of tolerance indeed.

pmishra2 #31

{{If you really want to talk about tolerance, start with your hometown. How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years??}}

#92

{{If islam is inherently multi-cultural and peaceful, where are the sikh, hindu and buddhist temples of Afghanistan and Pakistan? Hindu and Budhist traditions were active in this region for 3000 years - and most important - where are the hindus, sikhs and buddhists???}}

Pmishra babu, you have repeated the very same question/assertion like a stuck gramophone record in #31, #66, #92, #112, #115, #135. We heard you the first time. Please cease your inane blabbering.

There is absolutely no contradiction between the peaceful and tolerant nature of Islam and the relative absence of other religious traditions in Afghanistan and in the North-West of the Indian subcontinent. When the light of the True Faith arrived there a little more than a millennium ago, tolerant and humane Islamic rulers gave all facilities for benighted Buddhists and Hindus to continue to practice their outworn creeds.

However, the more intelligent sections of the populace – just like the inhabitants of Mecca in 630 CE - perceived the truly enlightened, rational and universalistic nature of Islam – as opposed to the parochial, particularistic and irrational nature of their ancestral faiths – and willingly embraced the Religion of Peace and Justice. Only a few pandit-hates clung to their ancestral religion hoping to lord it over the common people again should Islam ever be vanquished. If the thinking people and the masses voted with their feet for the enlightenment of al-Islam over the barbaric jahalat of Hinduism and Buddhism, it is because the former is manifestly superior in every way to the primitive mindsets and superstitious traditions embodied by the pagan creeds – not because of any supposed intolerance from Muslims.

And naturally, once the pagan creeds lost their adherents, their temples and monasteries were no longer needed and fell into disrepair. Some no doubt were put to better use or simply dismantled – others just crumbled away. QED.

------------------

Coming next on Chowk FP: the great Islamic egalitarianism as the finest of al-Islam's manifold contributions to South Asia.

#139 pmishra2

[...but many muslims realize this is some ancient baggage and are struggling to move on...]

pmishra,

How many of these Muslims would be willing to declare the koran as "ancient baggage" in ANY Islamic country?

I think you are indulging in wishful thinking. The handful like hamidm do so in the safety of the anonymity of the Internet, and that too in the USA.

#140 slyder

[Stop eating cow dung you stupid fukkers and maybe the civilized world will reconsider.

And stop sprinkling gao muthra in the server room while you're at it! ]

Now now. Such language! What would your mothers say?

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Eklavya, Ajeya


There is no need to accept this kind of silly fairy tales about mohammed or jesus or krishna or whoever. If your point is that for many muslims this is normal - well, we have to point this out vigorously and defend our position.

People do change - I am not saying its going to be easy - islam definitely has a supremacist side - it has an over-emphasis on how it alone stands for true religion and other bakwaas like that - but many muslims realize this is some ancient baggage and are struggling to move on.

Look, a couple of hundred years ago, christians were still killing heretics and a hundred years ago most hindus believed that jati really meant that some communities were better/purer than others.

So there is no contradiction between being blunt when somebody trots out stupid statements - islam is religion of peace or mohammed was a pacifist gandhi-type - and at the same time thinking that people can learn and move forward. Maybe some are slower than others....

#136 Eklavya

[pmishra ji, with all due respect, this is the biggest problem I have with us Hindus.

We take an ordinary, average, normal, middle-of-the-road person and declare him a fanatic, and extremist, a gonner, instead of recognizing that the person is simply being an average, normal, middle-of-the-road person of his faith.]

This is the biggest problem I have with you liberals. You take a cult-member (albeit by birth), a believer in something far more insidious than Mein Kampf, someone who is part of the very soil that terrorism grows on, someone who would vigorously defend his cult, and declare him a harmless and average man of peace.

As I tell my liberal friends - Daniel Pearl was a liberal.

Eklavya, middle of the raod in certain faiths is a fanatic as identified by 5/6th of the humanity. You are a numbers man..as you said...so numbers speak for themselves. Nothing Baig or you can do about it. We are coming into yoru house and telling you that. tough luck buddy...make sure you can protect tampax by hiding him in a safe and dark place :)

"this guy is one of these fanatics who believes fairy tales about his religion based on selective choice of historical facts."

pmishra ji, with all due respect, this is the biggest problem I have with us Hindus.

We take an ordinary, average, normal, middle-of-the-road person and declare him a fanatic, and extremist, a gonner, instead of recognizing that the person is simply being an average, normal, middle-of-the-road person of his faith.

There is nothing Baig sahib suggests that any Muslim (who call himself or herself a Muslim) will not tell you with complete confidence, or any liberal Nehruvian/Gandhian Hindu would not agree with.

* I know a couple of people who disagree with this 'of peace' business but you can count them on the tips of your fingers.

#127 dost_mittar

The relationship between hinduism and buddhism in India is a different issue. There could well have been fights - I certainly dont believe in stupid statements like "Hinduism is the religion of peace" etc. We know that Buddhism was a state religion of some kings at various points, we know that the some hindu kings did not look on Buddhism with favor...

My question is simpler. If Islam is inherently peaceful etc. where are the historic traditions of afghanistan and pakistan? Why is there this extreme allergy to hindus, buddhists and sikhs in these countries? How come every large indian city has 100s of mosques and an active muslim community but the same is not true of Kabul, Kandahar, Peshawar, Lahore, Karachi, Hyderabad, Rawalpindi etc?

Why does this never get discussed when we consider islamic multi-culturalism - why should we keep repeating this discussion of Spain and Turkey only???

Summarizing: this guy is one of these fanatics who believes fairy tales about his religion based on selective choice of historical facts. So he should be treated accordingly - a not very intelligent twit....

"Mr. Baig does not participate in chowk discussions."

Mr. Baig is a man of his faith, propounding his faith.

Discussions here will not advance his cause.

(By the way, such men in India are called secularists.)

Re: # 125

Mohammad is the real culprit behind this cult of violence. He mastered the art of dis-information. He ensured that no one wrote anything disparaging about him. He ensured that the poetic flowery language of the scribes turn int HIS revelation. And when one of the scribes saw through the act he got them executed.
He mis-represented the pagan religion of Mecca- he spread the mis-information that they "worshipped" idols and that their idols== god . He USED Abrahim to stake a claim on Mecca and destroy the idols.
He USED the Abrahmic hatred for idolatory to kill, loot , rape and occupy Mecca and take reenge for his past humiliations.

Blame this circle of violence of Mehammad. No one else is to e blamed not OBL, not Ali, not Ayesha, Not Maududi.
Destroy Mohammad's FALSE representation through the flowery language of his scribes.
And the circle of violence would END!!!

Re #110
Vengat...

The purpose was simple. Frighten non-moslems and exploit the situation. They have expected support from Congress ( specially Sharad Pawaer) and police. Low level police force (Sub-Inspector and lower ranks), like commoners deserted Congress and ....
Siv Sena have saved Mumbai...

Re: # 110
Vengat...

Mumbai situation was something, which could have been exploited by any Marathi leader. Bal Thakre have taken that cause. People of Konkan have benefitted a lot from Siv Sena. The method used by him is very bad.
Regarding 1992-1993 riot, it was bound to happen anytime. The same Dubai-Muslim Underworld-Congress nexus was forcing business/industry to flee Mumbai. Only people benefitted from this nexus is smugglers and 3rd grade Mumbai movie makers. The situation from mid-eighties were becoming untolerable. It was the muslims, who have initiated the riot (...I was in Mumbai for 2 years. Most commoner's account says so). The basic tactics followed by moslem terrorists are same everywhere (operate from muslim ghettoes. When you attack them,some commoners will get effected. And cry foul about it. Hamas & Hejbullah are using the same tactics).

Indians there is no Paki in the gallery. Ek Dukka Mittars can play to the gallery but there is nobody there. Dont waste ur time here on this chowk. This is probably yet another NGO to manipulate young minds. These people are are employed to post articles and posts. Seems one poster has 5 nicks. Good Bye!

Hope this helped some Indians.

Hinduism is not an ism or religion. That is why it will outlast all and will lead humanity to peace and prosperity. Wars were never fought to spread Sanatan Dharma. Yogi is Hindu. Dhyan-dharana-Samadhi can happen while developing new process for substrating GaAs ..while coming up with faster Simplex algorithm. That is when one reaches to the higher consciousness. In fact, you reach to that higher consciousness so get those ideas.

When you progress on this path you will see oneness of every thing. The barriers and walls will disappear. You will be Sat-Chit-Ananda ie roughly Freedom(truth), Confidence and Bliss.

Re: # 127:
""India Unvarnished" at chowk, which you can search by clicking on the author of the article. It is really the kind of history that was popular during secular reinterpretation of history.
"
"India White-washed" at chowk, which you can search by clicking on the author of the article. It is really the kind of history that was popular during pseudo-secular, lifafa and doomed Doon re-interpretation of history.

Today's Hinduism is more Jainism and Buddhism. Which religion/culture allowed settlement of Jews, Zaratrostian, Syrian Christians and even early Arab Muslim and even celebrated their presence. These doon kids are very superficial. One can imbibe their talk while having whisky at their expense. But do not forget to flush it later in their toilets.

Went to a hillstation resort type farm-house of a relative with heavy british accent. His father was commissioned in 22 with Iskandar Mirza. Childhood in Quetta and schooling at Doon. Voracious reader mostly of books of nature Last Mughal, British Army and its conquests, World War I etc. Lot of pictures of Sambhaji with Aurangzeb's daughter. But no Marathi book on Dnyneshwar, Tukaram or even Shivaji as a social reformer. Utter contempt for local religion and culture.

Thanks god, India was saved from such morons. our 7th grader Vasant Dada Patils and even Lalus are wiser than these elitist Dhobi ke Kutte.

pmishra2#92:

Unfortunately, Mr. Baig does not participate in chowk discussions. But I know that he does not share your views about who destroyed Buddhism in South Asia. According to him, it was extreme violence and persecution by Hindus of Buddhism that was the reason. He gave a detailed history of India in a large article "India Unvarnished" at chowk, which you can search by clicking on the author of the article. It is really the kind of history that was popular during secular reinterpretation of history.

Which one is it?

I-slam-Ur-Mouth or I-slam-Ur-Intellect/Reason/Common Sense?

Re: # 117
The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam

Ans: So, Muhammed needed conquest to spread Islam!!!!

Re: # 118:
"
The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam"}
"
The idle worshippers of I'bad were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 1999 AD that they accepted I-slam-Ur-Mouth religion and accepted handsome Kammandu Khilapha as the new prophet who ruled "piece-fully" for next nine years.

The rest is His-story.

Re: # 119
He conquered all this territory by sacrificing less than 150 (145 to be precise) Muslims in 10 years. This can only happen when one is set out to conquer hearts and minds and not the bodies.

Ans: You don't need to conquer hearts through war. Buddha was king. His method spread from Mongolia to Malayasia without anybloodshed.
The casualty figure has no historic sanction.



BTW Medina Pact is the first ever written constitution in the history of mankind.

Ans: Absolute lie...

Re: # 97

But the Arab culture did not allow it either. It was only Allah's doing to facilitate the prophet.

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THE LEGACY OF A GENERAL (pbuh)

There is no other person in the history of mankind whose life has been scrutinized more than the life Holy Prophet (pbuh); scrutinized equally by his friends and foes. There is no other person in the history of mankind whose life is as open book as that of the Prophet. Every action that he took, every word that he spoke has been recorded and reaches us via more than 6 hundred thousand narrations and traditions.

During his life time Holy Prophet acted also as a general who conquered an area of one million square miles in 10 years; that is an area equal to the Europe West of Russia. He conquered all this territory by sacrificing less than 150 (145 to be precise) Muslims in 10 years. This can only happen when one is set out to conquer hearts and minds and not the bodies.

There are two types of military expeditions that took place during his life time which are termed as Ghazwat and Saraya . By definition Ghazwat are those military expeditions in which he himself took part; Saraya on the other hand are those expeditions which he sent under the command of his companions. In his life time he fought 22 Ghazwat and 37 Saraya. Most of the Ghazwat and Saraya ended up without a single loss of life because most of these expeditions were just policing and enforcing the Medina Pact which he made with the tribes of Medina and surrounding areas. BTW Medina Pact is the first ever written constitution in the history of mankind.

A complete list of Ghazwat and Saraya is given below with the number of casualties listed. The loss on the side of enemies is also negligible given the barbaric nature of early Arabian society. The execution of 700 Jews after the battle of trench may not be considered as casualties of war, since that was actually an act of treason and breaking of Medina pact that resulted in their execution. But even if it is considered an act of war the number of enemy casualties still is less than 1000 approx., which makes it 120 casualties per year. There is only one man who was killed by him in a war. Similarly, the 14 people killed (which your sources say as 30) during the conquest of Mecca were not casualties of war, instead they were killed because the next of kin of their victims refused to forgive them. So it was a judicial execution and not an act of war.

A detailed history of these military expeditions can be seen at the following website, and can be verified through million others:

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

And BTW Muslims are open to inquiry if it is done without malicious intent. There are no taboos in Islam.


GHAZWAT

Year 2 A.H (2 years after migration)

1: Ghazwat abwa also called Ghazwah Dawaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

2: Ghazwah Badr Kubra
Muslim Casualties: 14
Enemy: 70

3: Ghzawah Banu Qainuqa
Muslim Casualties: 1
Enemy: 1

4: Ghazwah Saweeq.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 3 A.H: Three Ghazwaar took place:

5: Ghazwah Gharfaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

6: Ghazwah Uhud
Muslim Casualties: 70
Enemy: 23

7: Ghazwah Hamrâ' Al-Asad
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 1

Year 4 A.H Two Ghazwaat were faced:

8: Ghazwah Banu Nudair
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

9: Ghazwah Badr-e-Sughara.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 5 A.H Four Ghazwaat were faced:

10: Ghazwah Zatur-Raqa'
Muslim Casualties: No info
Enemy: No info

11: Ghazwah Doomatul-Jandal
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy:0

12: Ghazwah maresi, also known as Ghazwah Bani-ul-Mustaliq
Muslim Casualties: 1
Enemy: fewer than 10

13: Ghazwah Khandaq (Ditch), the more important and famous one.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 700* (see note above)


Year 6 A.H Three Ghazwaat occurred:

14: Ghazwah Bani Al-Hayaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

15: Ghazwah Ghabah also known as Ghazwah Zi-Qarah
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

16: Ghazwah Hudaibiyah.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 7 A.H One Ghazwah in this year:

17.Ghazwah Khaibar.
Muslim Casualties: 18
Enemy: 93

Year 8 A.H Four Ghazwaat happened during this year:

18: Conquest of Mecca
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 15

19: Ghazwah Hunain
Muslim Casualties: 4
Enemy: 70

20: Ghazwah Ta'if
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 9 A.H Only one Ghazwah in this year:

22 Ghazwah Tabuk
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

SARAYA

1: Saryah Hamzah
2: Sarayah Ubaidah.
3: Saryah Zaid bin Muslim
4: Saryah Zaid bin HarithFour Saryah
5: Saryah Abu salmah
6: Saryah Abdullah bin Anees
7: Saryah Munzar
8: Saryah Murthad.
9: Saryah Muhammad bin Muslimah toward Qartaa
10: Saryah Akkashah
11: Saryah Muhammad bin Muslimah towaed Zil Qasd
12: Saryah Zaid bin Harithah toward Bani Saleem
13: Saryah Abdur-Rahman bin Auf 6: Saryah Ali
14: Saryah Zaid bin Harith toward Umme Qarfa
15: Saryah Abdullah bin Ateek
16: saryah Abdullah bin Rawaha
17: Saryah Karz bin Jabir
18: Saryah Amr Ad-Damri.
19: Saryah Ghalib Toward Bani Al-Maluh
20: Saryah Ghalib toward Fidak
21: Saryah Shujah
22: Saryah Ka'b
23: Saryah Amr bin Aas
24: Saryah Abu Ubaidah bin Al-Jarrah
25: Saryah Abu Qatadah
26: Khalid, also know as Ghameesa
27: Saryah Tufail bin Amr Dusi
28: Saryah Qutaba.
29: Saryah Alqamah
30: Saryah Ali
31: Saryah Akkashah.
32: Saryah Khalid bin Waleed toward Najran and
33: Saryah Ali toward Yamen.
34: Saryah Abu Bakr
35: Saryah Bashr bin Sa'd
36: Saryah Ghalib bin Abdullah
37: Saryah Ajzam. Saryah under the command of Usama. which set out after Prophet’s demise.

THE LEGACY OF A GENERAL (pbuh)

There is no other person in the history of mankind whose life has been scrutinized more than the life Holy Prophet (pbuh); scrutinized equally by his friends and foes. There is no other person in the history of mankind whose life is as open book as that of the Prophet. Every action that he took, every word that he spoke has been recorded and reaches us via more than 6 hundred thousand narrations and traditions.

During his life time Holy Prophet acted also as a general who conquered an area of one million square miles in 10 years; that is an area equal to the Europe West of Russia. He conquered all this territory by sacrificing less than 150 (145 to be precise) Muslims in 10 years. This can only happen when one is set out to conquer hearts and minds and not the bodies.

There are two types of military expeditions that took place during his life time which are termed as Ghazwat and Saraya . By definition Ghazwat are those military expeditions in which he himself took part; Saraya on the other hand are those expeditions which he sent under the command of his companions. In his life time he fought 22 Ghazwat and 37 Saraya. Most of the Ghazwat and Saraya ended up without a single loss of life because most of these expeditions were just policing and enforcing the Medina Pact which he made with the tribes of Medina and surrounding areas. BTW Medina Pact is the first ever written constitution in the history of mankind.

A complete list of Ghazwat and Saraya is given below with the number of casualties listed. The loss on the side of enemies is also negligible given the barbaric nature of early Arabian society. The execution of 700 Jews after the battle of trench may not be considered as casualties of war, since that was actually an act of treason and breaking of Medina pact that resulted in their execution. But even if it is considered an act of war the number of enemy casualties still is less than 1000 approx., which makes it 120 casualties per year. There is only one man who was killed by him in a war. Similarly, the 14 people killed (which your sources say as 30) during the conquest of Mecca were not casualties of war, instead they were killed because the next of kin of their victims refused to forgive them. So it was a judicial execution and not an act of war.

A detailed history of these military expeditions can be seen at the following website, and can be verified through million others:

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

And BTW Muslims are open to inquiry if it is done without malicious intent. There are no taboos in Islam.


GHAZWAT

Year 2 A.H (2 years after migration)

1: Ghazwat abwa also called Ghazwah Dawaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

2: Ghazwah Badr Kubra
Muslim Casualties: 14
Enemy: 70

3: Ghzawah Banu Qainuqa
Muslim Casualties: 1
Enemy: 1

4: Ghazwah Saweeq.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 3 A.H: Three Ghazwaar took place:

5: Ghazwah Gharfaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

6: Ghazwah Uhud
Muslim Casualties: 70
Enemy: 23

7: Ghazwah Hamrâ' Al-Asad
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 1

Year 4 A.H Two Ghazwaat were faced:

8: Ghazwah Banu Nudair
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

9: Ghazwah Badr-e-Sughara.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 5 A.H Four Ghazwaat were faced:

10: Ghazwah Zatur-Raqa'
Muslim Casualties: No info
Enemy: No info

11: Ghazwah Doomatul-Jandal
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy:0

12: Ghazwah maresi, also known as Ghazwah Bani-ul-Mustaliq
Muslim Casualties: 1
Enemy: fewer than 10

13: Ghazwah Khandaq (Ditch), the more important and famous one.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 700* (see note above)


Year 6 A.H Three Ghazwaat occurred:

14: Ghazwah Bani Al-Hayaan
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

15: Ghazwah Ghabah also known as Ghazwah Zi-Qarah
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

16: Ghazwah Hudaibiyah.
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 7 A.H One Ghazwah in this year:

17.Ghazwah Khaibar.
Muslim Casualties: 18
Enemy: 93

Year 8 A.H Four Ghazwaat happened during this year:

18: Conquest of Mecca
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 15

19: Ghazwah Hunain
Muslim Casualties: 4
Enemy: 70

20: Ghazwah Ta'if
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

Year 9 A.H Only one Ghazwah in this year:

22 Ghazwah Tabuk
Muslim Casualties: 0
Enemy: 0

SARAYA

1: Saryah Hamzah
2: Sarayah Ubaidah.
3: Saryah Zaid bin Muslim
4: Saryah Zaid bin HarithFour Saryah
5: Saryah Abu salmah
6: Saryah Abdullah bin Anees
7: Saryah Munzar
8: Saryah Murthad.
9: Saryah Muhammad bin Muslimah toward Qartaa
10: Saryah Akkashah
11: Saryah Muhammad bin Muslimah towaed Zil Qasd
12: Saryah Zaid bin Harithah toward Bani Saleem
13: Saryah Abdur-Rahman bin Auf 6: Saryah Ali
14: Saryah Zaid bin Harith toward Umme Qarfa
15: Saryah Abdullah bin Ateek
16: saryah Abdullah bin Rawaha
17: Saryah Karz bin Jabir
18: Saryah Amr Ad-Damri.
19: Saryah Ghalib Toward Bani Al-Maluh
20: Saryah Ghalib toward Fidak
21: Saryah Shujah
22: Saryah Ka'b
23: Saryah Amr bin Aas
24: Saryah Abu Ubaidah bin Al-Jarrah
25: Saryah Abu Qatadah
26: Khalid, also know as Ghameesa
27: Saryah Tufail bin Amr Dusi
28: Saryah Qutaba.
29: Saryah Alqamah
30: Saryah Ali
31: Saryah Akkashah.
32: Saryah Khalid bin Waleed toward Najran and
33: Saryah Ali toward Yamen.
34: Saryah Abu Bakr
35: Saryah Bashr bin Sa'd
36: Saryah Ghalib bin Abdullah
37: Saryah Ajzam. Saryah under the command of Usama. which set out after Prophet’s demise.

Pmishra #115 {"#115 Posted by pmishra2 on March 25, 2008 8:28:22 am
salim-bhai please do not say stupid and senseless things like -

[quote]
The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam"}

Mishra Sahib,
My stupidity and senselessness have nothing to do with the accuracy of my statement. Indeed, the conquest of Mecca in 630 was bloodless. There have been several others in history.

Yaar bhayo bhartis, leave Islam alone. If you do that, it won't bother you at all. Chalo, koi aur baat karo.

Re: # 115

That is in fact true.After the bloodless conquest of Mecca, the Meccans and all Arabs in surrounding areas were given three choices:

1. Accept Islam as their religion and become brothers in equal.

2. Keep adhering to their religion but accept political dominance of Islam or migrate outside of Muslim influence.

3. Take up sword and fight it out.

These three choices are listed in Qura'n and Holy Prophet (pbuh) is urged to follow them thru.

There was a large mix of people who picked up choices #1 & #2 and there was reason for that. A few years earlier a treaty was signed between Meccans and Holy Prophet (pbuh), which is called Treaty of Hudaibiya. Under this treaty it was agreed that any Muslim who would enter Mecca would be taken prisoner and would not be returned, however, any Meccan in Medina would have safe passage back to Mecca. Intitially, this clause was considered very humiliating by the Muslims but there was wisdom in that decision. A large number of Muslims who were later detained by Meccans remained in Mecca and kept preaching. So years later when Muslims surrounded the Mecca, the hearts and minds have already been softened and there was absolutely no resistance. However, about 30 Meccans were later executed because they were accused of murder and the relatives of their victims refused to take Blood Money (Qisas). Those were judicial excutions and none was political.

A significant number of non-Muslims chose to leave the land, among which were Jews who migrated towards Iraq, because elsewhere they were banned by the Roman Empire. Some pagans migrated towards Persia.

No one chose option # 3

salim-bhai please do not say stupid and senseless things like -

[quote]
The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam
[\quote]

Its this kind of stupid propaganda that has given muslims a bad name. No one changes their fundamental culture without a struggle and we have a lot of evidence of struggle and violence in this change...

#88 Posted by friend on March 24, 2008 5:07:58 pm
Salim Chauhan sahib #various

{"Sir you don't have to direct our attention to violence against muslims. This article's basic premise is that while Christians didn't honor their treaties, and killed muslims, muslims were in general verrrry peaceful and considerate of their minorities. Given this peaceful nature of muslims, what happened to idol worshippers who used to reside in Mecca, why fire-worshippers Parsi had to run to India, and why Bahai are persecuted in Iran? What is happening to Afgani minorities? and why Saudi Arabia still can not tolerate any idols?"}

Dear Friend,
I am pleased to note some good questions posed in one's own words from a thoughtful interactor. This is a delightful contrast to the rampant cut & paste rhetoric expressing the canned BPJ/RSS/VHP/BD/sS/JS/SP/MNS nonsense.

Your point about honoring treaties is a very good one. Being very observant of the written word, Muslims, at the time of the Crusades, were usually quite faithful in honoring their treaties. OTOH, the Crusaders were notorious for violating commitments when it suited them to do so - Richard the Lion-hearted with his cruel executions of POWs in Acre and the Knights Templar attacking the caravan that led to the demise of Jerusalem are in sharp contrast to the leniency of Saladin at the recapture of Jerusalem in 1187.

The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam. Of course many of their close relatives had already become Muslim by that time.

The Parsis abandoned Iran because of the Arab conquest. The same people who conquered Iran in the mid 7th century are the ones who conquered Syria, Palestine, and Egypt - all with huge Christian populations that were the majority well into the time of the Crusades. Even after the horrific Crusades and the defeat of the invading Christians, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine continued to have significant (15 - 25%) Christian populations.

Why Saudi Arabia cannot tolerate any idols is something that the extremist Wahabbis have to address. Islam forbids idolatry as the most serious of sins - as does Christianity and Judaism (read the full 1st Commandment), and thus an irrational and extremist interpretation would be that all idols are wrong. The Iconoclasts of the early Christian period destroyed and disfigured many of the beautiful sculptures of the Greek & Roman periods. In my opinon, and that of most Muslims in the world, statues, pictures, movies, are fine as long as we Muslims don't worship them. I have no problem with a Hindu worshipping a statue, a bird, a monkey, a snake, or a tree - to each his/her own. peace.

Re: # 112

UN should ban all the religions which asks converts to disown their allegiance tot he land, languange, scripts, last nameas and forces to take alien cultural names (Arabic in case of Islam and Biblical in case of Xtian) before it is too late. It should promote spirituality which is independent of language, race, culture or nationality.

If you consider at present 25% of world population is Muslim, then by the following little paranoiac conclusions it is already too late to make such a progressive change.

Curtsy Gandharva @ http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=471541#471541

The Progress of Islam in a Society (from 1% to 100%)
http://www.libertynewsforum.com/libertynewsforumcgi/news/YaBB.pl?num=1206 397175/3145


When Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone:

United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law.

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%


When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris -- car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%

Of course, that's not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

"Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, "The Haj"

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.. http://www.frontline.org.za/books_videos/sti.htm146

more islamic multi-culturalism..
------------------------------------
In this spirit, Saudi Arabia's Consultative Council (Arabic: Majlis ash-Shura) considered a resolution calling on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to "work in coordination with Arab and Islamic groups and others at the United Nations to draft an international pact for respecting religions, their symbols and leaders, and prohibit insulting them in any way." The council member who introduced the resolution, Mohammad Al Quwaihes, did so in direct reaction to the cartoons: "The provocation to move the resolution was the continuous onslaught on Islam in general and the Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) in particular, say for example, the blasphemous cartoons and films being published in Denmark, the Netherlands, America and the like."

Ah, but there's a problem with this "mutual respect of religions" idea, one which led the council overwhelmingly to vote down the resolution, 77-33. Critics pointed out that such a pact would recognize polytheistic religions, and that "would be unacceptable." One opponent, Khaleel Al Khaleel, explained his vote against on the grounds that it would create a dangerous precedent for Muslims. "Some consider Buddhism, Qadianism and Baha'ism as religions. Can we make it obligatory for Muslims to respect these faiths and avoid criticising them?" Another member, Talal Bakri, noted that "if we approve the resolution it will be make it obligatory to recognise some religions and will facilitate establishing places of worship for them in Muslim countries."

I forgot to add. Thakre was the only deterrent to Dawood and gang when most of the other politicians were either on his payroll or were scared. Shivsena saved Mumbai in 92-93.

Mayawati IAS material, is going to be real man who will lead India a decade from now. Shivsena will work closely with her rather than BJP. Ideally they all should come together and reach out to Muslims, which Shivsena and Mayawati are doing. Muslims should understand that Thakre/mayawati are well meaning compared to the psydoes in Congress.

Re: # 109

Guru,

I fully agree Shri Balasaheb Thackeray has a good side to him. Now do you agree that he has a bigger bad side?

Who is Thakare?

They come from principality Bhor. They were keeper of a fourt in Bhor. British attacked in 1820s ... though fought gallantly ... outnumbered and outgunned ... had to flee.

Balasaheb's father Prabhodhankar Thakre thought did not attend college was fairly good writer and so ran a weekly for emancipation of women (hindu) and removing casticism and superstitious belief among Hindus. More socialistic/marxist. Little driven and non-compromising. So family suffered.

Balasaheb was good at drawing and painting. Did not do well in school. but became one of the foremost cartoonist. did not go to college. worked in socialist paper free press journal. accidentally took the mantle of Marathi common man's cause when he saw nepotism in employment by south Indians. straight forward. Non corrupt personally. Not at all womanizer or alcoholic. Was deeply attached to his wife because he married early and his own mother died early. his wife was mother to his younger siblings. Lost interest in life when his eldest son died in accident and his wife because they misplaced the bottle of medicine which kept her blood pressure/heart ailment low. Father to his daughter-in-law and supported her in producing good Marathi and Hindi movies. A risk taker. Fulfills his promise. But limited in vision and exposure to world events or trends. Not good with money like Pawars.

Don't go only by what is written in the news papers. They are not even good as toilet paper. I met only once to open an ITI/deploma college when I had just completed B Tech and he was more concerned with keeping existing jobs of people. Those were the days when close to 400K workers were going to be jobless because of textile mills closing.

"Which heaven? Which provides 72 Arab virgins? "

You should have known when I told Maju anna, "No touching" ...LOL

Yes "Mauna Ragam" is good. Maniratnam's movie...What else you can expect from a genius like him... Hindi was compulsory till my 9th standard and I managed to pass a few Hindi exams. My teachers, in Tamilnadu, were so strict, we were terrified to make mistakes. Sadly, the fear alienated me from Hindi...

It kills me whenever I see lovely Hindi girls and my misfortune of not knowing Hindi. With whatever Hindi I know, I try to manage;).

Nkg,

I have watched Mauna Ragam too and also a Hindi translation called Kasak. Revathy was the star in MR, right? Lovely movie.

Regards

Re: # 101
Vengat...
Resigned....
I am watching Mauna Ragam (though I don't know Tamil, anyhow I have loved this movie, when I have watched it during my college days (91-92)...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKy6lO-TJvw&feature=related
Enjo y...
(Chini Kum theme song is similar...)

Holding mirror is true friendly act! One should take this job of documenting what Indian civilization gained from Muslim invaders. Indian and Paki Muslims need to be made aware that by keeping identity tied to the primitive and uncivilized cultures of invaders who happen to be Muslim may make them backward looking and rootless. In 80s they used call ABCD for kids who were being brought up in America. Unfortunately Muslim of subcontinent have been kept confused by vested interests of divide and rule of British and the brown babus who replaced them ie psydo-secularists, Lalu, Mulayam type politician. Subcontinental Muslims have become Arabia Bound Confused Desi.

In documenting the positive contributon, let me pose who was/were architect of Taj Mahal, Fattepur Sikri and other so called Muslim monuments? Who were the engineers of Sher Shah Suri's Grand Trunk Road?

Tanjawar temple architecture was followed in many temples, even Mahalaxmi/Ambabai temple of Kolhapur, Maharashtra. One of the architects who have preserved and improvised for current need is Shri Ganapathi Sthapati. What intrigued me is the following historical context from the url http://www.vastu-design.com/lesson1.htm

Ganapati Sthapati holds that the historical figure, Mayan, an architect and town planner of ancient India was the source of "Vastu Science". He was the author of Mayamata Vastu Shastra (a treatise on building and architecture) and also Surya Siddhanta (a treatise on Astronomy). These works are still alive and being used by scholars and practitioners all over India.

Sthapati told me that Mayan was adored as "Viswakarma" by Veda Vyasa in his Mahabharata (one of India¹s most renowned scriptures), implying thereby that Mayan was aware of the dynamics of SPACE and was able to apply the space-mechanics to his own creations and transform them into little universes on the Earth. Whatever he was able to create in visual terms, be it a sculpture, building or a town or city layout, they behaved like living organisms and pulsated with life. He was a great scientist of India who identified and quantified the vibrancy of the space enveloping the Earth and the heavenly bodies and also dwelling in each of the objects of nature.

---

Let's hear from knowledgeable folks. Muslim need to be proud of the engineers, architects and the craftsmen who got samadhi while creating monuments even if they find that they were not Muslims. They should not be proud of only the guy who financed it. In reality these monuments impoverished the common Indian of that time. Sher Shah Suri was prudent and visionary but other wasted resources which could have been used better for creating universities, libraries, printing preses etc. There was no effort even in nurturing the architecture, engineering or craftsmanship. Europe had started doing this when Muslims and Rajputs were squandering national wealth.

Hope I am not hurting any ones feelings.

Nkg,

(In most of the cases mother-in-law and sister-in-law are hold responsible for such crime...How many cases, you see father-in-law involved in such crimes?)

So I guess saas and nanads are all Muslimas, the sasurjis are all good Hindoos!!!

Regards

Re: # 100
Now cool down, Salim Saab will take you with him to heaven, don't worry.
Ans: Which heaven? Which provides 72 Arab virgins?

Re: # 99
Majumder:
In most of the cases mother-in-law and sister-in-law are hold responsible for such crime...How many cases, you see father-in-law involved in such crimes?

Vengkat:
Mohammed had committed all sorts of crime (rape, killing, torture, looting other's wealth). These are just reminders...Unfortunately Bal Thackery and Mohammed are same type of people...popular for negative energy...

Nkg,

Its ok we have had a glorious past...Musalmaan's had their share of good times too... We have as many monsters as the Muslims have...Now don't try to ridicule, excessively, when somebody is going through hell...

Thanks,

Re: # 99

Majumdar,

Stop all this antics. Indians indeed treat DILs as daughters. There could be aberrations.

Now cool down, Salim Saab will take you with him to heaven, don't worry. But Saab will take you there only as a spectator...wokay? No touching ...

(Indians treat daughter-in-laws as daughter.)

Right about that. Bahus are burnt and daughters are aborted before birth. But maybe all these people doing dowry killings and female foeticide are Injun Momins.

Regards

Re: # 61
Salim:
We will like to discuss about Zainab and Ayesa and their sexual adventure with Muhammed and the paramours of these girls ( Zainab & Ayesa)...Let us start chronologically...Thackerey will come later...

Re: # 74
Salim:
Indians treat daughter-in-laws as daughter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imrana_rape_case
This is basically Moslem/barbaric culture.
Mohammed also had comitted same crime (raping his daughter-in law Zainab, wife of Zaid)...

Re: # 54
Salim:-
So before you start your mantra about Ghaznavi, Ghauri, Khilji, and Aurangzeb from the 10th, 13th, and 17th centuries let's talk about Thackeray and Modi from the 20th and 21st centuries.

Ans: Ch. Ch. Ch.... Moslims started these riot, and when they were paid back with the same coin RSS and Shiv Sena has become bad!!!!

Re: # 51
Salim:-
...and East Punjab was one of the most densely populated Muslim presence in India

Ans: ...and so it was given to India rather than Pakistan!!!!

Re: # 73
Salim...
If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had?

Ans: They were POWs, and according to Geneva convention, India have to release these POWs. It was BD, who have to take final decision.

Re: # 78
Salim:-
Dalits and tribals are most disadvantaged group in India. Their crime record is far better than that of any other group in India.

#90 dost_mittar

Ok, fair enough, that an indian should write this is even more unfortunate, so let me re-phrase my question:

If islam is inherently multi-cultural and peaceful, where are the sikh, hindu and buddhist temples of Afghanistan and Pakistan? Hindu and Budhist traditions were active in this region for 3000 years - and most important - where are the hindus, sikhs and buddhists??? Gone, all gone, slowly but systematically reduced to near zero..yes, I realize there are some left in villages of sindh. But not for long...

Dont even get me started on the jews of saudi arabia and yemen or the zoraostrians of iran...

Just talking about Spain and Turkey is one part of the story. Its like insisting that Akbar represents all of islamic history in South Asia...There is also Aurangzeb and Shah Wahiullah and their modern day descendants.

To check if it's book stupid, compare rosters of ciities such as Karachi, Lahore, Rawalpindi and Peshawar. Are Hindu haris disproportionately represented?

There can be other reasons such as IMs might have acquired the mindset of mughlai and other muslim shahis (lawlessness, a momin could lift Hindu's property/women.)

Personal experience: A desi looking kid had his lexus 300 with board of for sale, parked infront of comp-usa. An employee wanted a car so I went for a short drive. While entering in his car I dropped my credit card in his car. Forgot to pickup and went home. The kid was very well dressed and the car might be an year old. Before leaving the kid I called the employee and gave this kid's mobile to him. After a day I realized that I forgot my credit card. I asked employee to call the kid. The kid conveyed that he searched in the car and it was not there in his car. I blocked the card but they conveyed that there was purchase $2700 worth for a laptop, just after I lost the card. For insurance to take care of it I had to file a police complain. Police came back with video surveillance and asked me to identify the suspect. The kid was there. They called the kid on his mobile. Kid denied. I called the kid and realized that this kid was Hamza from Mirpur or some such place in Pakiland. He was only 19. He asked me not to press ahead, since I was supposed to get money from the insurance anyway. At that age he knew so much. Called his home to talk to his parents. Father was managing a Sheraton in suburb. His mother started crying, calling me bhaijan ...we are all indian etc etc.. and begged not to ruin her kid's life. I was getting too busy in my work so did not have time for police and court.

Bottomline: It's not socio-economic. when u r told - u are some chosen people with direct link to allah and all ur gunahs done on mere mortals esp on kafirs don't matter you have Hamzas all around. The mindset might have been molded by owning alien marauder as your own which encourages that for success in life u merely have to followin Kiss Hank's ass rituals of the alien religion and tag along with foreign rapist, criminal and marauders. This kind of psychological make up creates irresponsible people and nations (kargil, 65, 71 and begging to west and china or blaming everything on amrika)

You check illegal currency trade, smuggling, prostitution, bootlegging (when prohibition was in place) Muslim's are in forefront.. Even in US, disproportionately more muslims are in shady trades such as stolen car parts and auctioning of such cars.

If India does not take care of Muslim self created alienation problem another holocaust of partition will be necessary. This time no territory might be lost but lot of innocent blood will. Muslim elite and Masadi like intellectualize should focus on this impending crisis rather than neocons. Yu Pakis and IMs for allah sake give a big goodbye Chumma to distant Umma ... ur past, present and future depends on working with well meaning indians.

UN should ban organized religion all over the world. Promote spirituality which brings people together.

Baig sahib haazir hoan!

pmishra#31:

"If you really want to talk about tolerance, start with your hometown. How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years??"

Baig sahib is a well-known Indian and not a Pakistani. I believe he has a Hindu wife.

Re: # 31

I wonder how a few families of Hindus and Sikhs managed to survive peacefully in our predominantly Muslim village in West Punjab during British Raj while there remained none after partition under Muslim Raj.

But mind all this cleansing was permitted by the Islmic God who had made 'Maale Ghaneemat'(Conquest and plunder) 'halal' (permissible) especially for the last prophet. (PBUH).

Salim Chauhan sahib #various

Sir you don't have to direct our attention to violence against muslims. This article's basic premise is that while Christians didn't honor their treaties, and killed muslims, muslims were in general verrrry peaceful and considerate of their minorities. Given this peaceful nature of muslims, what happened to idol worshippers who used to reside in Mecca, why fire-worshippers Parsi had to run to India, and why Bahai are persecuted in Iran? What is happening to Afgani minorities? and why Saudi Arabia still can not tolerate any idols?

Re: # 36

Miyan,

Jo woh bol raha hai usko samajho ! Hans kar ke apne ko hi aur bhramit kar rahe ho!

GT sab (Jai Shri Krishna) you are right..the police rosters may not be disproportionate. during british times, the logs were full of Pardhis or Kolis or Thugees (so called criminal castes). my only point is the criminal enterpernuers hardly do it for (primarily) islami reasons irrespective or proportionality..definately not in india. police rosters are also prolly disproportinately low on brahmins or jains or parsees.

#73 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on March 24, 2008 11:15:20 am


If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had?


that's incredibly lame..no..that's neembu lame..

The PoWs hadn't killed indians. If anything, the indians could have turned them over to the bangladeshis who would have torn them apart from limb to limb..But they didn't...

Why not SC/STs, tribals etc?

Right from 50s onwards smuggling and extorton in mumbai is being done by Muslims? Mind that these Muslims are transparent eyes one from Konkan? Do you remember Haji Mastan? Dawood's father was in police service.

I have seen nomadic castes settling for education and their kids going for medicine and education. Muslims even after wealth (illgotten) do not go for education.

You are talking to someone whose 2 generations have served in police service.

I think it has something to do with that book and how Mulla interpretes it. Some Islamic leaders openly conveyed that even a criminal rapist murderer is bette rperson than Mahatma at the time of judgement. This religion for many is Kiss Hank's Ass for Million $ religion. Read my post on next board.

India should ban religions which make people rootless by asking them to change their name, abandon their language, script and allegiance to the land. If you cannot make ur town, ur lane sacred then u shud not standing on this land. If u r American Hindu then Mississipi is ur ganga and Roockies are ur Himalaya. Argonne or Fermi labs can be ur kashi & Mathura

Jai Bajrang Bali Jang Babu,

I must say that of late you have been loosing a bit of your shine, a bit of your humour and a bit of your tolerance (I distinctly remember you reprimanding me for my strong response to Naqsh). There may be a reason I am sure, but I do not want to know about it (or maybe I already know about it). Here is an example of your slack:

A poster states - "Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented"

Now you take this statement as the "truth" and respond:

" ..., muslims are disproportionately in crime .... blah, blah, blah"

Jang sahib, why do you take the former statement as being true? Why do you even respond to such fundoo gibberish? Something is wrong, you are even getting your spelling right! Get back to your old self. It is OK, I suppose to pull a leg here and there ... but stretching it ????

Kind regards from a friend,

GT.

the jews are gonna getchya...the jews are gonna getchya..boo!!

Wikipedia - Unbiased Encyclopedia or a 'J..ish Tool'

Wikipedia is an internet encyclopedia, that anyone can edit and add information. Wikipedia claims it's articles are based on a totally neutral point of view. It's size is formidable, at 2.5 billion views a month.

Once you get below the surface, you find moderators that follow an agenda, which clearly takes a Pro-Jewish point of view.

Wikipedia System Of Control
Wikipedians (J...ish volunteers) will concentrate on a certain subject, and actively moderate any new replies. Once an individual edits an article, his ISP number is recorded, and he is assigned a sayanim that will monitor all his future writings.

Individual contributors are assigned a tracking page, and an open record of all writings. Through out the cycle the contributor this will be monitored by Hillel, ADL, SPLC, type control agents.

From all the available information, it appears Wikipedia was started by a two Jewish kids, one a programmer, and the other an 'Adult Site' operator. It's dynamic success (800,000 pages) stems from 10,000 + individual contributors, which are monitored by core sayanims.

Wikipedia's claim: ~ 'We are an internet encyclopedia with a neutral stance' ~ is absurd.

Jang,
Please don't lead me to any more wild good chases by posting links to pornographic sites. If you want my attention to focus on something worthwhile, please go the extra mile and post the pertinent information for my attention. Thank you.

guru, muslims are disproportionately in crime/unstructured bussinesses is primarily a socio-economic phenomenan, nothing to do with dar-ul-harb.

Guru #75 {"Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented"}

Guru,
Could it be because of the massive discrimination against Muslims in education, employment in both the commercial and public sectors?

In many countries, the underprivileged are also the most inclined to take risks with the law. In the US, blacks occupy a disproportionate "advantage" in prison demographics.

thackre may have...she did indeed become like chief of film industry workers union or something like that and a film producer..here is an interesting profile on her

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/profile.html

no dughter-in-law of peace shyte in here

thackre may have...she did indeed become like chief of film industry workers union or something like that and a film producer..here is an interesting profile on her

http://www.india-today.com/itoday/12071999/profile.html

no dughter-in-law of peace shyte in here

Chohan,

Thakray or Modi are reactions to Muslims. Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented. We dont know is it because Inida is dar-ul-Hub or some such Arabic term for enemy contry or where Islam is perpetually in danger. Islam is dangerous for world peace.

Did u read those link?

Jang, #72 ,
Stop pussyfooting around. Did Thackeray Thok his bahoo or not?

#70 arjun {"At the risk of running afoul of godwin's law, I'm sure the fact that some nazi soldiers were killed during ghetto uprisings means that the jews and nazis killed the same number of people or are morally equivalent"}

Arjun,
What's the name of that disease - the one where merely comparing anything to Hitler or Nazis ensures winning an argument? LOL

I am saying that over the 8 or 9 months following the insurrection of Awami League in March, the Mukti Bahini killed a hell of a lot of non-Bengali AND Bengali supporters of Pakistan. So, go ahead an say that the paki army killed 3 million Bengalis and raped and impregnated 2 million bengali women - all this is silly exaggeration on your part. There was a lot of violence and much loss of life on both sides.

If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had? Seems to me, then that either the Injuns were themselves implicated or they themselves didn't believe the exaggerated bullshit that somehow later generations of Injuns have just discovered.

"daughter in law"..

yar salim i am not knowledgable about histoty of the quresh khandan..maybe kaal can help you there :)

#66, Pmishra,
shri Mishra Ji,
Of course you forget about the bloodless surrender of Mecca and the completely compassionate treatment of its citizens. You forget about the man who felt the need to ask about a woman's health just because she neglected to dump garbag on his head as she did daily. You have not heard or read about the man's Last Sermon at Arafat. Listen, if you want to make a moster out of him, you have every right. Fortunately, and unfortunately for you, there will be billions of people who will continue to consider him God's Mercy to Mankind (PBUH). Many have preceded you (Dante, Washington Irving, and Salamander Rushdie), so please get in line and wait your turn to hurl your garbage. He may even forgive you too.

Now, as to the number of Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan, that is a real tragedy. There were mass migrations