The Vicious Circle of Violence

Hamidumdum #4 {"so instead ,i will just cuss the camel that brought him to medina "}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
Am I allowed to cuss the wagon train that brought you to Hamtramck?

#2 and #3 Naqshbandi sahib,
Ma'Shallah. Our Holy Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is certainly that Mercy to Mankind.

{"The TV screens in every Indian home have shown us the savage joy on the faces of the goons who recently attacked poor non Maharashtrians in Mumbai that was little different from the faces of the fanatics who had attacked Sikhs, Muslims and other racial or religious minorities in earlier riots."}

Baig Sahib,
Thank you for writing and sharing this excellent and timely article. Indeed if we follow the example of Our Holy Prophet (PBUH), compassion, forgiveness, and love will define Islam rather than cruelty, violence and hatred being spread by the enemies from within.

Salaam usper ke jisske paas chaandi thee na sona tha
Salaam usper ke toota boriya jisska bhichauna tha

Re: # 37

Jang,

That's convoluted. See, afterall, a living body is as good as a chemical apparatus. Drinking camel urine could not have been a metaphor, rather it could be better than the modern drugs. In trying to defend perceived insults, we are proly overlooking some ingenious methods.

It is not surprising to see an animal excrement helping to cure another animal's disease. If you carefully obseve, the world is designed to be self-sustaining. Consider the food cycle to be an analogy for the medicine cycle or we could even say that, during those times, food was medicine and vice-versa.

It sounds perfectly logical. That's how the life and affairs of earth could have been designed.

We have just chosen to ignore that there could be effective forms of medicinal treatments other than the ones we see.

I know for sure, goat's milk or urine helps in curing liver problems. People, in my area, used to give 'keevanulli'-a road side herb for hepatitis and this was practiced for several 100 years. In the 80s allopathy doctors created a hue and cry over this. In the late 90s, researchers(US/Europe) confirmed the efficacy of the plant.

In the jest to ward of mockery, let us not insult the intellect people of the past. It is only logical and natural for every society to have had some life saving knowledge.

Re: # 37

Jang,

That's convoluted. See, afterall, a living body is as good as a chemical apparatus. Drinking camel urine could not have been a metaphor, rather it could be better than the modern drugs. In trying to defend perceived insults, we are proly overlooking some ingenious methods.

It is not surprising to see an animal excrement helping to cure another animal's disease. If you carefully obseve, the world is designed to be self-sustaining. Consider the food cycle to be an analogy for the medicine cycle or we could even say that, during those times, food was medicine and vice-versa.

It sounds perfectly logical. That's how the life and affairs of earth could have been designed.

We have just chosen to ignore that there could be effective forms of medicinal treatments other than the ones we see.

I know for sure, goat's milk or urine helps in curing liver problems. People, in my area, used to give 'keevanulli'-a road side herb for hepatitis and this was practiced for several 100 years. In the 80s allopathy doctors created a hue and cry over this. In the late 90s, researchers(US/Europe) confirmed the efficacy of the plant.

In the jest to ward of mockery, let us not insult the intellect people of the past. It is only logical and natural for every society to have had some life saving knowledge.

#37 jang
[yar the camel urine hadith needs to be investigated carefully..sounds like an insttuction from a zen master. everyone knows that an arabi camle rarely pees. its easier to extract milk from a bull camel than pee from camel of any gender. therefore the instruction for seeking camels urine is really an instruction to search hard for medical treatment..sice its pretty clear that a camels urine cant be gotten easily ;-) ]

Yup. Therefore it validates your POV and thus your religion. Drink camel urine - really means something else. Dring cow urine - does not.

By the way, are you Muslim, or a "low caste" ex-hindu?

yar the camel urine hadith needs to be investigated carefully..sounds like an insttuction from a zen master. everyone knows that an arabi camle rarely pees. its easier to extract milk from a bull camel than pee from camel of any gender. therefore the instruction for seeking camels urine is really an instruction to search hard for medical treatment..sice its pretty clear that a camels urine cant be gotten easily ;-)

... I think that followed a demonstration by thousands of people on Dam Square, not all Muslims. Is it true? Daddu Bhai?

#33 Posted by laddu,

LoL. Daddu bhai, remember KaalChakra's words. Islam cuts off these people's reproductive systems. I heard wilder's 15 minute movie's website has been taken off by the host network. Is it true?

Muslims who believe that Mohammad was a man of peace are seriously deluded. I would like to ask all of you who are claiming this:

1) Is it not true that he beheaded 700 UNARMED CIVILIANS?
2) Is it not true that he SOLD their INNOCENT and HELPLESS women and children into slavery?
3) Is it not true that he had sex with a woman THE SAME DAY that he murdered her father and husband? Even monsters would give a gap of a day or two before the rape.

I mean, being intelligent people, HOW CAN YOU say he was a man of peace? HOW CAN YOU?

This is very very disgusting. How can you respect yourselves after that? I am asking you guys a serious question. How can you? Don't you guys have families? Wives? Little children? What happened to your brains?

Mr Wilders’ contribution to the parliamentary debate on Islamic activism:

Madam Speaker, allow me, first, to express my sincere thanks to you personally for having planned a debate on Islam on the very day of my birthday. I could not have wished for a nicer present! Madam Speaker, approximately 1400 years ago war was declared on us by an ideology of hate and violence which arose at the time and was proclaimed by a barbarian who called himself the Prophet Mohammed. I am referring to Islam.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran’s core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war – a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4). Jews are compared to monkeys and pigs (2:65, 5:60, 7:166), while people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must according to the Koran be fought (9:30).

Madam Speaker, the West has no problems with Jews or Christians, but it does have problems with Islam. It is still possible, even today, for Muslims to view the Koran, which they regard as valid for all time, as a licence to kill. And that is exactly what happens. The Koran is worded in such a way that its instructions are addressed to Muslims for eternity, which includes today’s Muslims. This in contrast to texts in the Bible, which is formulated as a number of historical narratives, placing events in a distant past. Let us remind ourselves that it was Muslims, not Jews or Christians, who committed the catastrophic terrorist attacks in New York, Madrid and London; and that it was no coincidence that Theo van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim, Mohammed Bouyeri.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30, which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as “moderate Islam”. As Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, “There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it”. Islam is in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared “dhimmis” in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.

Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also, and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non believers and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage war.

Madam Speaker, the Islamic incursion must be stopped. Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time. One century ago, there were approximately 50 Muslims in the Netherlands. Today, there are about 1 million Muslims in this country. Where will it end? We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilisation as we know it. Where is our Prime Minister in all this? In reply to my questions in the House he said, without batting an eyelid, that there is no question of our country being Islamified. Now, this reply constituted a historical error as soon as it was uttered. Very many Dutch citizens, Madam Speaker, experience the presence of Islam around them. And I can report that they have had enough of burkas, headscarves, the ritual slaughter of animals, so called honour revenge, blaring minarets, female circumcision, hymen restoration operations, abuse of homosexuals, Turkish and Arabic on the buses and trains as well as on town hall leaflets, halal meat at grocery shops and department stores, Sharia exams, the Finance Minister’s Sharia mortgages, and the enormous overrepresentation of Muslims in the area of crime, including Moroccan street terrorists.

In spite of all this, Madam Speaker, there is hope. Fortunately. The majority of Dutch citizens have become fully aware of the danger, and regard Islam as a threat to our culture. My party, the Freedom Party, takes those citizens seriously and comes to their defence.
Many Dutch citizens are fed up to the back teeth and yearn for action. However, their representatives in The Hague are doing precisely nothing. They are held back by fear, political correctness or simply electoral motives. This is particularly clear in the case of PvdA, the Dutch Labour Party, which is afraid of losing Muslim voters. The Prime Minister said in Indonesia the other day that Islam does not pose any danger. Minister Donner believes that Sharia law should be capable of being introduced in the Netherlands if the majority want it. Minister Vogelaar babbles about the future Netherlands as a country with a Judeo Christian Islamic tradition, and that she aims to help Islam take root in Dutch society. In saying this, the Minister shows that she has obviously gone stark raving mad. She is betraying Dutch culture and insulting Dutch citizens. Madam Speaker, my party, the Freedom Party, demands that Minister Vogelaar retract her statement. If the Minister fails to do so, the Freedom Party parliamentary group will withdraw its support for her. No Islamic tradition must ever be established in the Netherlands: not now and also not in a few centuries’ time.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly touch on the government’s response to the WRR [Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy] report. On page 12 of its response, the government states that Islam is not contrary to democracy or human rights. All I can say to that is that things can’t get much more idiotic than this.

Madam Speaker, it is a few minutes to twelve. If we go on like this, Islam will herald the end of our Western civilisation as well as Dutch culture.

I would like to round off my first-reading contribution with a personal appeal to the Prime Minister on behalf of a great many Dutch citizens: stop the Islamification of the Netherlands!
Mr Balkenende, a historic task rests on your shoulders. Be courageous. Do what many Dutch citizens are screaming out for. Do what the country needs. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries, ban all building of new mosques, close all Islamic schools, ban burkas and the Koran. Expel all criminal Muslims from the country, including those Moroccan street terrorists that drive people mad. Accept your responsibility! Stop Islamification!

Enough is enough, Mr Balkenende. Enough is enough.

Re: # 29
Another tolerant islam...Kashmiri Pundits....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandits

Sad to see this kind of gibberish...

This fellow is unable to look at the region he comes from...instead he has the same old rubbish about spain and turkey...

Islam in south asia has been definitely violent and hegemonic. Where is the hindu and sikh minority of afghanistan today???? Where did they go? Do you know that when indian TV programs are broadcast in Afghanistan, they have to erase scenes of hindu workship from the shows, just like pornography? This is islamic tolerance...

How come the 3000-year old hindu/buddhist culture of north-west india has totally ended?? Not a single shred survives other than some poor farmers and workpeople in Sindh.

Violence and imperialism are closely allied with Islamic explansion. The prophet himself provided some "violent short-cuts" in his behavior with people who rejected his point of view. This was further exploited by warlords who easily used the prospect of loot and exploitation of conquered territories as part of islamic conquest. "Islam khatre mein hain" has been used as a violent and bigoted tool against non-muslims again and again in south asia.

Until educated muslims understand this, as for example, educated christians understand the horrors of the crusades and inquisition, and educated hindus the horrors of caste exploitation, we will not make much progress. But this silly Murad fellow, yapping about regions and areas he knows nothing about, is not someone to enlighten us.

If you really want to talk about tolerance, start with your hometown. How many buddhist, hindu and sikh temples are there? What is their condition? How visible are these minorities? Have their numbers grown or shrunk in the last 50 years??

Cheema sahib,

Re: 29

You sound like my old pal YLH.

In Pak, The minority population was decimated not only in Punjab but also in NWFP/B'stan and even Sindh and East Bengal have shown similar trends. Whereas in India, minority population has grown in all states since 1951 Census and nowhere was the Muslim population decimated except in East Punjab.

Regards

Re: # 25; treetop

I totally agree with you. Minorities existed peacefully UNTIL the newfound puritanistic Islamism came into play.

With regards to the figure produced by "nkg"; I am sorry they are completely flawed. There was mass exodus at partition on BOTH sides which caused the respective populations to drop, again on BOTH sides.

There are hardly any sizeable populations of "native" Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab; those who may be there have come to live from other states and are NOT native Punjabis.

My family themselves have migrated from Gurdaspur; many didn't make it.

Re: # 23
Why don't you look our your neighbours... Pakistan and Bangladesh ( Sindh from 24% to 6% in 50 years, Bangladesh from 35% to 9% in 50/45 years...)....