Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

#110 Posted by pavocavalry

“as i understand from studying in about 15 schools in pakistan in 10 years no pakistani curriculum books propagated hatred against gandhi.”

Thanks Pavo.

akcheema

Did you not write this?

#105 Posted by akcheema
"speaking as a Pakistani, hatred for Ghandhiji is part of our upbringing."

All I asked to not to speak for all Pakistanis. You can speak for yourself because perhaps hate was part of your upbringing! Maybe you should ask your parents why they taught you to hate people!

As far as School books are concerned, my living in Pakistan or outside of Pakistan does not really matter. Please tell me in what grade/Class they teach hate Gandhi? I will make sure that the history book from that grade is delivered to your home.

“Are you trying to tell me that children now are taught their history for the last 5-6000 years of civilisation’

Where did I say or even implied that? Aren’t we talking about Gandhi which is fairly recent history?

Btw, nowhere in any school system school going children are taught 5-6000 years of history. If that were to happen, kids will only read history. They are given pertinent information and at the school level that is good enough!

Just for your info: Moenjodaro is not 5-6000 years old(2600 BC)!


Pavo,
you are right they were politicians like anyone else now or in the past.

#112 Posted by pavocavalry

Pavo,
You summed it up very well. I pretty much agree with what you wrote.

This is really unfortunate that all major political leaders in the undivided subcontinent were never able to rise above their own ambitions. Basically, they were all toadies and did not do anything without first getting approval from the British.

Pavo,


"In a more advanced Indian society Nehru and Jinnah may have been leaders of all Indians rather than only Hindu Indians or Muslim Indians! "

Thanks,

Very true...indeed it boils down to the ability of the people to identify their leaders, which often leads to leaders representing the qualities of the masses.


Nkg,

Nayak Kings were both peasants and fighters. You should be happy, inspite all of the gory incidents, we have no more kings to lord over us...

HP Sain , thanks for the feedback .its an excerpt from my article stray reflections on commencement of writing pakistan army since 1965 in the ilogs . i am surprised that no one has commented on use of torture and death in custody of many people in pakistan by the intelligence agencies.at least two contemporaries of mine from quetta have disappeared like this.a rather sad conclusion to what jinnah may have visualised.also the death sentence in spying cases is not challenged or reversed by any superior court.this is the unwritten rule of business in india and pakistan both.also the trial by court martial in these cases is very faulty.best regards HP Sain.

HP Saab,

Cheemaji could not be speaking for all of the Pakistanis, probably for the people with whom he shares values. It is very much possible what Cheemaji perceives as blatant hate propoganda could very much come across a regular thing for you. We all see the same colour differently, I guess.

You know better than me...

#98 Vengat

Colonial rule was more a racial thing of white supremacy. When Japan could defeat in a lightening speed the colonial powers in Asia…. That aura of white supremacy …was gone for ever.

And with nearly 3 million Indians who fought for the English.. and were key in defeating the Germans in North africa and Italy… it sure was difficult for the British to hold on to India any longer.

#116 Posted by pavocavalry
"no one has commented on use of torture and death in custody of many people in pakistan by the intelligence agencies"

Pavo, we lament many deaths. I had some close friends and political friends murdered in the army custody and that was late 70s and early 80s.

Both India and Pakistan are unable to unshackle the colonial mindset.
These countries and their leaders have still not been able to change the Indian panel code. They are still running the same judicial system keeping the populations in slave like conditions.
Regards

Kahaan tak sonno gay
Kahan tak sunaoon
Hazaroon hain shikway
Kiya kiya Bataoon!

Btw, I am not into reading Ilogs.

#117 Posted by vengatramanan
"Cheemaji perceives as blatant hate propoganda could very much come across a regular thing for you. We all see the same colour differently, I guess."

Your guess is just plain ridiculous. What you are implying is perhaps not only a figment of your imagination but also a reflection of what you have been taught in your school system!

You seem to be a nice guy and I suggest don't jump to conclusions as you have no knowledge of what goes on in Pakistani school system.

I am sorry but what is posted on this forum suggest to me that hate is institutionalized in your system...,oh...That maybe my perception!

Re: # 110
as far as i know gandhi , jinnah and nehru were almost similar people ..

Ans: This is oversimplification. Jinnah and Nehru may be comparable, Gandhi is somebody who had brought entire India together...Gandhi has not used any negative agenda/hatred towards anybody/even British...

Re: # 113
Btw, nowhere in any school system school going children are taught 5-6000 years of history. If that were to happen, kids will only read history. They are given pertinent information and at the school level that is good enough!

Ans: Basic information about Ancient/Golden Age, Mideaval/Dark Age and Modern Age is part of any curriculla of the respective countries....

Re: # 112
Thus while the other parts of the world intellectually as well as materially made great progress during the period 1850-1950 all the energies of the Indians at all levels were increasingly diverted into communalism;
Ans: This is not true...
I can refer to hundreds of positive developments in Bengal, Maharashtra and Punjab. Those who had access to modern/British education system, they prospered. The amount of progress made by Bengalis in field of literature, science, engineering, medical science during 1850-1940 is immense....

Re: # 120

HP Saab,


"I am sorry but what is posted on this forum suggest to me that hate is institutionalized in your system...,oh...That maybe my perception!"

Its not your perception rather your presupposition...Anyway you have the freedom to presuppose on what I could be...Don't be surprised if it turns otherwise :)

I am sorry Saab, to see you still thinking on the lines of nationality and religion. I believe your anger towards Cheemaji was not because he was wrong but he chose to speak at a place where Indians frequented regularly. I was contemplating, to ask Cheema Saab to take back his words because prejudice transcends nationality or religion. Don't you think it is time for people of common values get together?

#124 Posted by vengatramanan
"I am sorry Saab, to see you still thinking on the lines of nationality and religion."


You are again jumping to conclusions. Where did I mention religion or Nation in my post? The issue was that guy was flat out lying so I asked him to speak for himself.

Cheema sahib appears to be mentally unstable. On one board he is an atheist-Muslim, on the other he is a British citizen, and on the third board he starts speaking for all Pakistanis.

"Cheemaji was not because he was wrong but he chose to speak at a place where Indians frequented regularly"

You don't know me enough to come to this conclusion. Only Kaal or Eklavya can suggest such a thing! That kind of stupid nationalism is very popular amongst Indians on this site! I have been posting here for four years now. Go check my previous posts and only then you will learn how stupid your "presupposition" is!


I am beginning to think you are just cheema's jodidar or something.

Izuber writes "I hope you will forgive me for having to post under the influence of feelings consequent to uncalled for attacks over and again by masadi."

Izuber you are a hypocrite and a liar. There were no uncalled for attacks by me, you made the first "attack" move by siding with saimashah calling for stopping my voice on the gallery and defending the chowk staff censorship of my articles- even though you happened to be on Chowk for less than a month- and then insinuating that I was Mossad and after discovering my writings that I was impersonating Muhammed Asadi (myself!)- now like the other spineless creatures here you hide behind the slogan of "he attacked me"- get some morals fool....

Madani sahib I appreciate your support, don't waste time with these newbie a-holes who think they are God's gift to chowk while having contributed less than half a pee drop to discourse here...

siding with saimakhan not shah- pardon this error

"Don't you think it is time for people of common values get together?"

First you accuse me of trying to muzzle cheema for his so called truth. (which is not the case as pavo's post confirms that.)Then you wanna talk to me about common values.

Just think for a moment. You believe that cheema is telling the truth without any investigation or any knowledge about Pakistan or its school system and then you talk about the common values. On top of that you make preposterous statements and then expect me to join you for some common values!

You may have common values with Cheema but not with me.

"people of common values get together?"

This is a joke, isn't it!

Goodnight or rather good morning!