Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

#128 for vengatramanan

I have posted a new ilog...


........end of public service message.........

Re: # 112: Quick and dirty answer. U need to know the words u use and the personalities involved.

"
The fathers of communalism as an idea in Indian politics were Syed Ahmad Khan, Lala Lajpat Rai, Gandhi and the Jauhar brothers!
"

What is communalism? Forming communes such as Tolstoy farm in SA, Wardha Maharashtra and Sabarmati Gujarat in living and searching truth is communalism then Gandhi was communal. Having prayers of Ishwar Allah Tero Naam is communal then he is indeed one such fellow. Using terms such as Satyagraha, Swami, Swarajya and Ramrajya is communal then he is one. When he blesses marriage of ashramite Shanti to another ashramite Sadiq Ali (Governor of Maharashtra) he can be considered communal because he encouraged union of two commune residents.

Ask yourself did he ask for reservation on the basis of religion like Syed Ahmad Khan? U may not be indulging in "our Gandu is better than ur Gandhi" but trying to do equal-equal. Dharma cannot be equated to Abrahmic or Marxian religions. This hardens the newer generation against Muslim and time is coming in many places where more common Hindu is feeling that a good Muslim is the dead Muslim. Pl mind that I grew up in an environment as depicted in Swades, many relatives have married into Islam and personally celebrated Moharram with gusto as we did Shivjayanti for decade of my childhood. Have slept in Imambara for three days and had many neighbors and school mates who were Muslims. People are really thinking -
majority of muslims are falling to Rakshasa or Pishachya consciousness.
Only Sword works against them.
Only arpar ki ladai with total destruction of Islam is needed to save world from this Abrahmic madness.
-

Islam unless indianized completely with Indian words to describe its core spirituality it will destroy India.

Lala Lajpat Rai probably understood what India will go thru in short term. What is his communalism? Reconverting folks back into Hinduism? Why should it be one way street? Did he apply force or gave economic inducements?

"
The leaders of the Hindu majority saw themselves as successors of the British Viceroys while the principal leaders of the Indian Muslims hypothesised that parliamentary democracy in independent India would mean Hindu ascendancy and Muslim subservience or more correctly all power in the hands of the Hindu politicians!
"
That is how democracy works! Who is bothered about Kalam's religion whether its Wahabism or Hinduised/vedantized Islam?
Islamic truly spiritual people will not indulge in religious darbari gandugiri. But then u guys might call them Dharmic people.

PS: What u wrote later made more sense and in line with what i wrote above. Sorry for being crass and harsh. but when u did equal-equal it triggered my allergy to p-secs.

Re: # 128; HP

There IS a lot of hatred which has been a part of our curriculum almost since the 1960s (Ayub; after 1965). It is deeply engrained, can almost go un-noticed, yet seems to produce 'good' results just the same! Did you know legends like 'Mahabharta' and 'Ramayan' used to be part of Pakistani curriculum until then! I am not in the habit of cutting & pasting from other websites; perhaps you can read some of the stuff Dr Mubarak Ali (from Lahore) has produced on the subject.

I wasn't going to quibble about Moenjo-darro etc; read carefully what I wrote, then comment.

You are absolutely right in that the same would have to be true for Indians as well. There is just so much hatred expressed on this site alone, it is not funny.

The 'hatred', if that is the right word, that we have towards others in our society, is more covert. It is this false sense of superiority over others that gets indoctrinated at an early age. May be you went to very previleged schools, I don't know your background. That is NOT where 90% of Pakistani school kids would go to.

I suppose I am biased in the sense that I wasn't born in Pakistan and from an early age spent a big part of my life in England. The comment I made was in the context of actually reading some of the curriculum that I read at College (Pakistan), stuff my cousins etc were reading at schools and make a complete 'outsiders' observation. I always try to place myself in that position; how else would you justify little snide comments about the hindu/pagan cultures of ancients in the Indus Valley. I suppose that is why I can spot and point out the so-called 'hate-verses' in our religious texts from a mile away, when according to majority of Muslims, they either never existed or have some covert (perhaps milder) interpretation!

I have had this problem all along. I have had the advantage of a western upbringing, with strong Islamic background, can speak, read and write both Punjabi and Urdu (have extensively studied the literature as well). My appraisal and critique of most things tends to be objective and appropriately thought through (though we all make errors of judgement from time to time).

The motivation of hatred by Indians, I cannot understand at all. Vengat, and possibly Majumdar are probably the only people I have come across that don't openly express sheer hatred towards Pakistanis and Islam. This is despite my assertions that if something in Islam or Pakistan is to be criticised, I'd rather it is done by the people concerned themselves. Silly jibes don't contribute to a healthy discussion at all.

And I apologise to you for having hit a nerve inadvertently; it was done with the facts available for all to see (if one has an open mind) and with the utmost sincerity.

As for the Gandhi matter; I never defended anyone's mistakes regardless of who they were. In my opinion, what he did was through sincerity (wrong at times nevertheless) as opposed to the opposition. Besides, he was NOT a politician in the sense we understand that word. He never sought office, or any other prestige, for himself. People may have difficulties understanding his methods, they were far from conventional to say the least, but he was sincere all the same.

I suppose, as Oscar Wilde would say, "the only thing worse than being talked about is NOT being talked about"!.

Before anyone tries to carry on in this vein, the matter is closed for discussion from my POV. I have better things to do with my time than to go around in circles day after day.

Thanks

Re: # 132: Could not help terminating this equal-equal gandugiri
"The motivation of hatred by Indians, I cannot understand at all. Vengat, and possibly Majumdar are probably the only people I have come across that don't openly express sheer hatred towards Pakistanis and Islam. This is despite my assertions that if something in Islam or Pakistan is to be criticised, I'd rather it is done by the people concerned themselves. Silly jibes don't contribute to a healthy discussion at all.
"

Common Indian learned to hate Pakistan not from books but what he saw from May 78 onwards. On an average 40 killings of Indians per month till Dec 2007 can be directly associated with the IEDs, RDXs and the electronic detonators provided by Pakistan to Sikh separatists, Kashmiri gandu namakharams (because India subsidized their daily necessities for all these years and saved them from brutal rapes of paki tribal lashkars) and the goons like Dawood gang (well ensconced in safe houses in Karachi and Islamabad).

Pakistan ke Baap Kya Jata if Babri is flattened or Kashmir is denied independence? Kashmir is as internal problem of India as Tibet is for China.

In India commoner does not believe goody-goody things written in the books by p-secs. He reads the news and connects the dots even though the opeds and editorial try to do hide the community and the country behind these killings.

#132 Posted by akcheema
Spare me the sermon!

You are just making up one story after another without any substance.

Sounds like you are just a compulsive liar and nothing more than that.

Here is some more evidence of your lying:
“Did you know legends like 'Mahabharta' and 'Ramayan' used to be part of Pakistani curriculum until then! "

BS again. It wasn’t part of any curriculum. Where did you hear this BS . Oh…you are just making up another story. Clearly you don’t know squat about Pakistan.

You made up one story about Gandhi now that you can’t prove that you start another about Mahabharata and Ramayana.

“Vengat, and possibly Majumdar are probably the only people I have come across that don't openly express sheer hatred towards Pakistanis and Islam.”

So how come you start blaming Pakistanis for institutionalizing hatred for Gandhi or anyone else for that matter.

“he(Gandhi)was NOT a politician in the sense we understand that word. He never sought office, or any other prestige, for himself.”

You are such a dumb fck that I have NO words to even describe it properly. Gandhi was first and foremost a politician and whatever he did was related to his politics. Everyone has a way of doing their politics and that was his style nothing selfless about it.

All politicians are extrovert and they do care about their image and style. I mean this ridiculous assumption that he was some sort of saint or reincarnation of god, who descended on India to change the masses, is totally bull. That is good for simpletons like you but not for everyone.

And what is sincerity? That really shows you are a complete idiot!
How old were you when you found out about your Sikh heritage?

HP,

cheema is a shallow dingo.

Re: # 76

From Your observations and comments it is clear that you are one of those types.

Gandhi was scum and he was scum because of many reasons the biggest being he could not reconcile to the fact that the Mozz did not consider him their leader.

For this he was prepared to go to any lenght to sacrifice the Hindus.

Thank Shri Krishna who came in the form of Shri 107 Shri Jinnah Sahib and who rescued Hindus.

Madar Das pan da phaduha Gandhi pen****choda changa hai Shri 107 1/2 Shri Gode Mahoday ne mara.

Sanatani

Re: # 79

Oye Majumdar,

Do not insult me. I am certified HM. I was kicked out of RSS. These fkrs are the biggest admirers of Gandhi.

But I still have to vote for that Sindhi Snake as TINA.

Paks are lky they killed the Sindhi biatch. B Mehsud for Prez.

Sanatani

Other Sindhis esp Hindus sorry for the above comment just leting out feeling

Re: # 84

Well said.

Fk If I could would rate J Sahib him just about 1 level below the Sikh Gurus and the Chattrapati and Chattrashal and Rani Durgawati and Lachit Barkhupan and all those who resisited Islamic imperialism in India.

Waise the scum we people are (Hindus) is that the Salvation we got in 1947 was due to a Mozz.

Maybe we need Jats or Gujjars or Yadavs as Indias leader not Savarna or Dalit Chooths.

Chaudhry Charan SIngh Zindabad.

Or maybe we can reconvert Zeemax and make him PM or maybe Shri B Mehsud.

Mazumadiya why dont you take our Paigham to BM and see.

Sanatani

Re: # 112
Proca...

Ans: Muslims were never leaders in any field of social life...They were military rulers...After the arrival of British, muslims failed to create a segment of civil leaders, like that of Gandhi, Tilak, Lajpat Rai, Bipin Pal...to be a mass leader, you have to be an Indian first ( not a Arab/Middle east clone)...muslims failed to realise that...

Re: # 135; HP the ignoramus!

I have alreadt included the reference to my statement (Dr Mubarak Ali - who is a historian and scholar from Lahore). May be you can do your own searches to find out about his books and other articles on Pakistani history.

You know nothing about me so keep your 'munaafiq' mouth shut rather than dish out personal insults in the future. My ancestors were probably Sikhs, don't know for certain. Same way your ancestors were probably Hindus as well (same as more than 95% of Pakistanis despite their delusions of a genetic connection with their arab masters (don't tell me you are Arain!).

And whilst you are at it, throw a bone to Zeemax the Imbecile as well; I'd be very grateful.

Now how can I put this politely for both your benefit? No, you are absolutely right...I can't....PISS OFF!

If there is ONE bharti/hindu interactor I admire, it is Sanatani ... because his highly opinionated views are as solid as mine, and not uninformed like the hindoo cockroaches nor shallow as our murtids!

Re: # 134
Common Indian learned to hate Pakistan not from books but what he saw from May 78 onwards...

Ans: Correct. History books in India tries to hide islamic barbarism in all possible corners ( courtsey Romila Thapar and her moslem slave Habib...and set of croonies from JNU). When people read literature written before 1947( Tagore, B C Chatterjee ...) Islamic barbarism is exposed to large extent. Kashmir, couple of wars had helped aggravate the problem. Pakistan/Islam is now exposed. So, it is not exclusive to India.....( One of the toppers in most hated nations in USA,UK...).

Re: # 141 for HP and his dog;

try this link and see how you go; I have nothing more to add to this board

http://baithak.blogspot.com/2005/11/dr-mubarak-ali-ameera-javeria.html