Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

what Gohar Ayub in glimpses from corridors of power states was sold by FIELD MARSHALL MANEKSHAW for a gardening set


Of course, if Ayub made that allegation, then it must be true...

considering how Maneckshaw's army got whipped in 71...

#1 Posted by arjun_5

Maneckshaw is a racist who looked down on the "darkies". For 71, most of the credit goes to others .... Jacobs, perhaps, being the most important. I wouldn't be surprised if Maneckshaw sold secrets.

Yes, maneckshaw showed some spine in NEFA .... but then the Chinese had already stopped.

#2 Posted by GT on March 27, 2008 11:32:06 am


I wouldn't be surprised


I would be surprised if your level of surprise had any bearing on altering reality.

How conveniently you suggest that, "Musharraf is a mean mortal." Did he steal from the homeland like the returning contractors of Pak politics? did he involve in any immoral acts such as Mustafa Khar?
Did he kidnap and later got married to a colleague's daughter as in the case of Mumtaz Bhutto & the daughter of Abdul Waheed Katpar? Did he drive a large format model of Mercedes Benz on the wrong side of the road while authorities watched as in the case of Asif Zardari anxious to kiss his bride while she was in a motorcade?
Did he steal from the nation's treasury and buy his wife diamond jewelry as in the case of Zardari & (late) BB?
Did he conspire to sell sugar on account of his personal business to India while Pak forces were engaged in Kargil as in the case of Nawaz Not-So-Sharieff.
It is rather easier for anyone to point fingers and blame others, while every one of us Pakistanis owe it to the homeland that the ask and question themselves as to what they took from Pakistan and what they gave the homeland.
We dont even have the decency to dispose our domestic trash appropriately, rather we sweep it out in the streets to imagine that our home is clean while we cause a nuisance for the image of our nation.
Until and unless everyone of us begins to assess themselves for their wrong doings and shortcomings this nation of ours will not straighten out.
The principle reason majority of people support a candidate to national offices is only to seek their aid for personal matters once they are elected. Aren't we all sly?
When there was Agartala conspiracy Sheikh Mujib went to jail and was under trial for treason, who campaigned for his release? wasn't it ZAB? When Sh. Mujeeb got majority vote who denied him the right to rule, wasn't it ZAB?
Who took over the power in Pakistan after demise of East Pakistan? and from whom? Wasnt it Gen. Agha M. Yahya Khan who declared war in a drunk state? wasnt it the same Yahya Khan who lost one of the two limbs of Pakistan? Wasnt it ZAB who took power after Yahya, wasnt it ZAB who ignored and took no action against the traitor Yahya who was having fun with General Rani the reknowned whatever from across the border towards East of Pakistan? if someone should have been hung publicly it is the traitor Yahya and it was ZAB's duty to the nation to carry out this punishment.

Re: # 5 izuber
For someone incessantly howling "sab se pehle Pakistan" he sure sold the nation short when he pushed through the NRO.
And look at what the beneficiries are telling him in return?

"lo voh bhi keh rahe haeN yeh bay naNg-o-naam hae
yeh jaanta agar to lutaata na ghar ko maeN"

#5 and #6: This is the standard propaganda line that Musharraf has been using for years in his war on Pakistan with the help of ethnic and religious fasicts. The Pakistan Awam has seen the actions of the dictator and his lying and deceiptful supporters, and thus seen through this standard propaganda line. And so they have inflicted a humiliating defeat on him through months of a historic freedom struggle that has inspired the nation.

but dont let this fact stop you from continuing to rant on as if nothing happened on February 18.

You losers are exposed for what you are before the people of Pakistan - condoners of the murders of peaceful protestors for the rule of law on May 12; supporters of a deceiptful self-obsessed dictator simply out of primtive tribal loyalties. You are lucky Pakistanis are not as spiteful as thankless little rats like you.

the 1971 war was as my friend and more than that a respectable Indian military analyst Ravi Rikhye says " India's Strategic Failure".India failed to knock out West Pakistan the centre of gravity ! While it created a new Muslim state which is far militarily stronger than what Pakistan had in former East Pakistan and can be quite hostile to India in the long run.Many Bangladeshi officers were my students in Armour School and I was surprised to note that they hated India.

About Musharraf's scams history will judge and as I understand the details will start emerging soon.

About Kargil its clear from 1999 that it was a faux pas and many false gallantry awards were awarded to many brigadier level officers.There was one case of a major level staff officer relieving himself , struck by a small stone on the forehead and awarded an SJ.Without Indian insistence Karnal Captain Sher Khan would never have got a Nishan in Haider.My source is a major from engineers corps sent personally by Lieut General Ziauddin to investigate the fiasco in 1999.

the crux of the matter is that while Indian Army is highly democratised no Pakistani officer or soldier has the right to appeal to a civil court.no pakistani politician has bothered to give this basic right to the army.Liaquat Ali Khan was the culprit who took this basic right away in 1951 at the time of Rawalpindi conspiracy.

No politician has bothered to ammend Official Secret Act 1923.

No judge has prosecuted any paki intelligence officer for torturing to death a civilian suspect.As a matter of fact every year between 20 to 200 civilians are tortured to death,mostly in Balochistan but also in all provinces .In most cases their report says heart attack and many are just secretly burried without a trace.

In India an army officer can go to any civil court while in Pakistan civilian prime ministers were pioneers in ensuring that army is deprived of basic rights.

If politicians liberate the army the top 2 % major generals and above the real black guards trade union of generals will be reduced to size by the army.

I hope someone advises the PPP to do it .This is a real test case.The Khalsa , army of the so called pure needs to be democratised.

Kargil-A Military Analysis

15 June 2003

A.H Amin

Source - ISI major from Corps of Engineers sent personally by DG ISI Lieut General Khwaja Ziauddin to investigate actual on ground situation in Karil Operation of 1999.This report was conveyed to the then PM Nawaz Sharif by the then DG ISI Lieut Gen Ziauddian.I interviewed the source in Karachi in 2002 where he was then serving.





Kargil stands as perhaps the final military effort on Pakistans part to settle the Kashmir dispute by military means.

Analysis has mostly centred around political aspects of the operation while the military aspects have been largely left to the imagination of the public.Lately it has been claimed that Kargil was launched to bail out Mujahideen as a last resort ! This is an insult to the memory of the Pakistani armed forces "Volunteers" who died in that Himalayan wasteland without a funeral and in circumstances of unimaginable misery !

Kargil operation cannot be understood unless the personalities and motives of the principal characters are examined ! Every action in history is the final culmination of a personality's self perception,ambition and subconscious as well as conscious urges.

In this context the Kargil operation was born out of two key factors ! One was the personality of general Pervez Musharraf and the second was the unceremonial manner in which Nawaz Sharif ousted General Jahangir Karamat Musharraf's predecessor army chief of Pakistan Army.

Musharraf as those who have served with him know which includes this scribe also has always been an intensely ambitious man ! One hallmark of his personality is that he wants to stand out as a great military commander ! Propelled by an enormous ego wherever he served he endeavoured to do something extraordinary ! However fate did not allow him the glory in battle which his other coursemates like shabbir sharif achieved ! In 1965 Musharraf was a subaltern in an artillery unit which saw little action apart from supporting operatiions by indirect fire ! The 16 SP unlike 3 SP which fired on Indian tanks with direct gunsights at Chawinda stayed in conventional artillery role ! In 1971 Musharrafs commando company was not involved in action ! Nevertheless Musharraf compensated for this lack of combat laurels by achieving laurels in army courses and in various command assignments ! His final opportunity came when he ascended to the post of army chief in a situation when the army was in a subservient position vis a vis the civilian head of state , something which was regarded by the military herarchy as worse than blasphemy !

The forced retirement of General Karamat by prime minister Nawaz Sharif was regarded as a personal defeat by the Pakistani military brass and by Musharraf who felt that he would be a far weaker army chief under a strong prime minister who had asserted civilian control over the military machine !

These two factors were the fathers of the Kargil operation ! Ambition accompanied by a perception that the Pakistani public must be convinced that the soldiers were better than politicians.

Kargil at the military level was the brainchild of three men i.e General Musharraf the army chief ,Aziz the then army Chief of general Staff and Mahmud the then corps commander 10 Corps ! Musharraf and Mahmud were motivated by intense ambition to achieve military glory and Aziz was motivated by his Kashmiri ancestry plus military ambition.The person they selected to execute the operation was again one distinguished by out of proportion ambition i.e Major General Javed Hassan , author of a book in 1990s that claimed that India was on its way to disintegration and in which mughal king Humayun was resurrected from the grave to fight at Second Battle of Panipat !

In November December 1998 just one month after Musharraf's elevation to the post of army chief volunteers were asked for at the army level for an operation in Kashmir ! Many thousand volunteered including both officers and men from various units !

At no stage did any Mujahideen enter Kargil ! This is a piece of fiction and has no veracity !



These were attached to NLI units in the 80 Brigade sector for training.The principal idea of the plan was to infiltrate four battalions of NLI (Northern light Infantry) stationed in 80 Brigade Sector into Kargil Heights overlooking and dominating the Srinagar Ladakh road the lone Indian link with the Siachen and Leh Sectors ! The idea being to cut the lifeline of Indian supplies to Leh and Siachen Sectors ! Indian held heights in Kargil were to be occupied in February 1999 while Indian infantry had abandoned these heights at the approach of winter snow as an annual routine since 1948.In occupying the heights no fighting was involved ! The real issue was that of supplying Pakistani troops holding these heights which was far more difficult from the Pakistani side than from the Indian side !

Plans were kept secret and even the Commander 10 Corps Engineers of was not allowed to enter the Operations Room in 10 Corps Pindi.

The distance involved in reaching the heights varied from 15 to 35 kilometres from Pakistan side over mountains as high as 13 to 19,000 feet .To do this each battalion was divided into two parts , one acting as porters taking supplies forward and one half occupying the heights .

The heights were occupied as per the plan but the four units while doing so were severly exhausted ! In March-April the Indians discovered the Pakistani presence and reacted severely ! Severe fighting continued till July once the Indians finally re-captured the heights after Pakistani troops had been left to the mercy of Indian artillery and overwhelming troop concentrations as a result of the Blair House Accord !

A brief military examination of the plan reveals following weaknesses.(1) Failure to assess strategic repercussions of the operation at geopolitic and national strategic level .(2) Logistic failure in incorrect appreciation of supplying the troops . (3) Failure to understand that by occupying the heights the Indians were driven into a corner and had no choice but to retaliate , not for glory as was the Pakistani military's case but for pure military survival . (4) At a more subtle level the use of the Chora-Batalik Sector as a future spring board for Pakistani operations against India was sealed since Indians heavily fortified this sector for any future war.

The Pakistani planners failed to assess that war as an instrument of policy is no longer in vogue at the international level and their temporary military success would only bring greater international censure and a negative war mongering image without any corresponding military gain at the strategic level.

This scribe interviewed a former commander of FCNA and 10 Corps about logistics and General Imtiaz Warraich replied as following :--

" We initiated this operation but failed to support it with comprehensive operational planning and above all buildup for essential logistic support without which no operation can succeed"......'" the principal reason for our heavy casualties and lack of progress was unimaginative and callous logistic operations to support the units".

At one point the sepoys who had volunteered to fight and had come from many other infantry units to the NLI units refused to act as porters carrying supplies over 15 kilometres and were so exasperated that they defied Javed Hassan's personal orders in unit durbars to carry supplies and when Javed Hassn threw his cap on the ground threatened to march over it unless they were not employed as porters ! One such volunteer told this scribe that we had volunteered to fight ,not to act as porters ! The same fact was also mentioned in ISI chief Ziauddin Butt's secret report to Nawaz Sharif prepared by an Engineer officer on Zia's staff in ISI !

The failure to assess the "Enemy" factor was another strategic planning failure at the highest level .I asked General Warraich this question and he stated " Capture of Kargil Heights would totally stop all Indian movement to Leh and Ladakh Sectors unlike Pakistan in Siachen and Indians had no option but to do and die " !

Lust for glory and honour in battle are perfectly reasonable aspirations as long as they are accompanied by commensurate military talent in the generals who are at the helm of affairs ! This was sadly lacking in the Musharraf team who planned the operation. Their egos were many times larger than their real military talent !

By promoting an intensely ambitious man to the rank of army chief Nawaz did a favour which could only be repaid by betrayal ! The plan was based not on sound military reasoning but on burning ambition and an unrealistic desire for glory by men far away from the heat of battle ! No one above major level died , yet in a report to the military secretarys branch Javed Hassan recommended retiring 75 % of officers involved in the operation below colonel level !

The prime minister was not fully briefed because of ulterior motives ! Had the operation succeeded it would have been projected as a proof of Musharraf's Napoleonic brilliance and if it failed as it did Nawaz Sharif would have been made the scapegoat !

The operations planners were distinguished neither by loftiness of thought,nor audacity in the conduct of battle athe operational or strategic level.Thus boldness at tactiacl level was sacrificed because of operational and tactical timidity at the highest level.

No one appreciated that the army men who were employed , and it is a fiction that there was a single Mujahid in Kargil , had flesha nd blood ! These men mourned by a few hundred families were sons husbands fathers and brothers !

The Kargil operation at the military level is a watershed ! Idealism that propelled many hundred to die in those Himalayan wastes is buried for good ! Now there is a new breed which dominates the army ! The ones who aim at going on lush UN secondments or to KESC,WAPDA or as well paid consulatants !

What can one conclude ! It was the human heart that failed in Kargil and this heart which failed was housed in the ribcage of men sitting in the GHQ and not on the rocky pinnacles of Kargil ! Once the supply lines were closed under Indian threat of a counter attack , these brave men all Pakistan Army regulars were abandoned to die , pounded by artillery fire , bayoneted by overwhelming numbers , weakened by starvation ! Who can hear their cries ! Our ears are covered with heaps of lies ! Truth died at Kargil ! What remains is a body guard of lies!

By agreeing to ceasefire Yahya Khan saved West Pakistan.That was the poison pill that he swallowed.He was not tried because ZAB did not want to further demoralise the army.

The interconnection between the internal and
external fronts. The basis of defence and stability of a country is absolute harmony and in consonance with the internal and external fronts. The internal front means ‘morale of the civilian population’ ‘their belief in the legitimacy and moral credibility of the political government’ ‘belief in national aims and ideology of the country’ ‘identification with the Armed Forces of the country as defenders of the country’s integrity’ etc etc. External front includes the country’s Armed Forces, and its foreign policy. A country’s defence is based on both and any weakness in one will weaken the other. This inter-relationship was ignored by Pakistan’s civilian and military leadership during the period 1947-71. The Muslim League was initially dominated by a partnership of refugees from Muslim minority provinces and later by a combination of Punjabi Muslims and civil-military bureaucrats. The Bengalis were alienated first because of the National language issue and later because of the constitutional representation issue. The Bengalis were initially patriotic and only demanded linguistic equality and had even agreed to political parity in 1956. This arrangement was seriously disturbed once Ayub usurped political power in 1958. Immediately after independence the founder of the nation Mr Jinnah made an attempt to broaden the army’s recruitment base by ordering the raising of the East Bengal Regiment in 1948. This was a purely political decision taken by Mr Jinnah and implemented by a British C in C. By December 1948 two battalions of this unit composed of Bengali Muslims had been raised. This process was, however, discontinued once Ayub Khan an intellectually naive and tactically timid man became the Pakistan Army’s C in C in 1951. Ayub was biased against having Bengalis in the army. During his tenure an unwritten policy of not raising any more Bengali infantry battalions was followed. Ayub also retired the most promising Bengali officer Major General Majeed soon after taking over. The East Bengal Regiment was limited to two units and the expanded Pakistan Army remained a largely Punjabi dominated army. The irony of the whole affair was the fact that during this entire period all the army chiefs were non-Punjabi! In any case this was the first serious negation of the concept of having a national army. The Army was on the other hand firstly viewed as a Punjabi Army in the East Wing. Secondly and far more worse; it was viewed as an organisation designed primarily for the defence of the West Wing. The 1965 war further convinced the Bengalis that the army was not a national army but one designed to defend the West Wing. Thus from 1965 the rift between the internal and external fronts became much wider and the army was increasingly viewed as a foreign entity in the East Wing. The seeds of the events of 1971 were laid during the Ayub era. The Bengali populace viewed the federal government as a neo colonial government with its political base in the West Wing. The Army was increasingly viewed as a coercive instrument which was aimed at perpetuating the West Wing’s political and economic exploitation of the East Wing. By 1971 Pakistan’s ‘Internal Front’ was seriously eroded and this in turn greatly weakened its external front.





Ironically the political situation that the Pakistan Army inherited was created once the West Pakistan Civil servants and the then army C in C had ganged up in the period 1951-58 to keep the much despised Bengali in his place! The civilians did well in creating the 1956 Constitution which solved all major political problems of Pakistan. The politicians were, however, never allowed to implement this constitution since its implementation through holding of a general elections in 1959 may have led to a East Bengali victory, thus seriously reducing the civil-military dominance of Pakistani politics. Thus martial law was imposed in 1958 to avoid a general election! Ironically the army finally saw the light of the day a bit too late once a martial law was imposed in 1969 to hold a general election ! The tide of history in these 11 years had become irreversible! Strategic insight could at best have averted total humiliation! But there was no strategic insight since Ayub Khan had ensured from 1950 to 1969 that no strategic insight should be groomed and cultivated!

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Amin sahib,

Quite a few Indian army officers have been court-martialed or imprisoned for HR violations in Kashmir and NE. What has been the track record in Pakistan. Have action been taken against officers for violations in Karachi, B'stan, Gilgit or NWFP/FATA either during military rule or in civilian administration.

Regards

Small Spies Must be Hanged , While Bigger Ones Prosper

Ans: This is base rule of any political game...Chess was invented to formaulate war strategies...Pawns are sacrificed first (even sometimse deliberately to save Queen)....
Kargil war was kind of intelligence failure from Indian Govt. Mr. George Fernendes is a socialist. He was Minister of Defence!!! AVB is stupid, so is Advani....
India sufferred heavy casualty initialy due to wrong perception. Later with the help of AF they have paid back some stuff to Pakis...That is the time, instead of Clinton successfully put AVB and Nawaz under negotiation table, Indian armed forces had shown no restraint...

#8 Posted by pavocavalry on March 27, 2008 9:32:39 pm


Without Indian insistence Karnal Captain Sher Khan would never have got a Nishan in Haider.


Are you serious? You gotta be kidding me...