War of Another Kind

Soviet directly intervened in Afghanistan, as it was neighbouring state. There is a cultural continuity of Northern areas of Afghanistan with USSR state of Tazik/Uzbek...Some section of Afghan society invited advanced USSR to assist Afghanistan in field of administration and technology...Communism, so far, was not treated as failure and was doing well in most of the countries...If USA was able to reign on USSR, it was the economic might of western european states (France, Germany, UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy...), most of these states were rich through colonialisation of Asia and Africa...Rampant corruption in communist states worsened the situation and brought downfall of communism...communist/socialist govt. had brought rapid growth of human skill development, for which eastern european states, china, vietnam have promising future in knowledge based economy...Regarding Afghanistan, though it was peaceful, it was not growing economicaly or any social indicators. Russian intervention could have brought better infrastructure, skill, knowledge and administration in Afghanistan. The sabotage method adopted by islamists (it is popular within Islamic warriors for long time) in south (Talibs), destroyed the future of Afghanistan...
The state of Pakistan was supposed to be like this...There is no point blaming USA or anybody else for this...the foundation of Islam (...which looks for violent options rather than logical and decent solutions) is the major cause of problem of Pakistan...
Why this problem is so much visible now, rather than post partition of India/creation of Pakistan? The intellectual head of civil society in Pakistan ( Teachers, lawyears, policy makers, administration...) was mostly Hindus and the administration was run under the strict supervision of British Govt. When all the positive effect faded away, Pakistan is back to basics (Islam)...

Soviet directly intervened in Afghanistan, as it was neighbouring state. There is a cultural continuity of Northern areas of Afghanistan with USSR state of Tazik/Uzbek...Some section of Afghan society invited advanced USSR to assist Afghanistan in field of administration and technology...Communism, so far, was not treated as failure and was doing well in most of the countries...If USA was able to reign on USSR, it was the economic might of western european states (France, Germany, UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy...), most of these states were rich through colonialisation of Asia and Africa...Rampant corruption in communist states worsened the situation and brought downfall of communism...communist/socialist govt. had brought rapid growth of human skill development, for which eastern european states, china, vietnam have promising future in knowledge based economy...Regarding Afghanistan, though it was peaceful, it was not growing economicaly or any social indicators. Russian intervention could have brought better infrastructure, skill, knowledge and administration in Afghanistan. The sabotage method adopted by islamists (it is popular within Islamic warriors for long time) in south (Talibs), destroyed the future of Afghanistan...
The state of Pakistan was supposed to be like this...There is no point blaming USA or anybody else for this...the foundation of Islam (...which looks for violent options rather than logical and decent solutions) is the major cause of problem of Pakistan...
Why this problem is so much visible now, rather than post partition of India/creation of Pakistan? The intellectual head of civil society in Pakistan ( Teachers, lawyears, policy makers, administration...) was mostly Hindus and the administration was run under the strict supervision of British Govt. When all the positive effect faded away, Pakistan is back to basics (Islam)...

Re: # 228
Hamd...
Ans: Idiot!!! People from around the world get lost in US/Australia...you Pakis/moslems do that in barbaric arab land...

Re: # 305
Zeemax... Why to bring Sita and all when they are dead? I want to do that ( you described...in #305) on your sister/wife. 5 INR, OK? Rate negotiable...Visa and all is my responsibility...

Dear Chowkies:
While this may not be directly related to the article, I offer my responses to Mr. Laddu's points as a sincere attempt to bridge the misunderstanding between Injuns and Pakis. Enjoy.

Laddu,
Yaar, thank you for enumerating the different ways in which you love us Pakis and Muslims. My reciprocating emotions are in bold.

{"Please do become "stable" - because an unstable Pakistan is not good for us."}

It's not like we're mentally unstable or anything. We just like to fight a lot - and when you Injuns don't wanna fight, we just practice on each other. Next time we'll keep the noise down and not wake up your "peaceful country." What with Meos, Naxalites, Maoists, and Gujjus trying to get their beauty sleep for the Miss Inja contests.

{"We are already addressing our problems - you do yous"}

Yeah, Laddu, but you just end up addressing most of your problems to us. If we ever find out that even one of the so-called "Jihadi" attack was "Made in Inja," rest assured that a whole lot of dhotis will be unraveled for starters - after we forcibly change their color to shitty yellow.

{" Just do not set your jealous and hateful eyes on us.
We do not want to do anythng with you."}

Well said - especially after you butt in, bifurcate our country, and then become more hated by the Bengalis than you are hated even by the Tamils of SL. If ever we become so ugly, so poor, and so stupid as to be jealous of you, it will be time for all Pakis to commit one last act of suicide - in Delhi. Thank God, we ain't sunk so low yet.


{"We do not want you to use our names. First stop using our name and change it to mahammad something like Salim Mohammad."}

Good point! I have often thought about that, but then how would I have lured Hindu chicks into my lair as I introduced myself as "S. Chauhan?" First impressions are important, after all. Of course, once introduced to the Pride of the Rajput, all differences in religion had been set aside in the worship of suntanned superiority.


{"Do not watch our movies. Do not sing our songs. Do not wear our dresses. Tell your woman to waer chadors all the time."}

Your movies? Your songs? Your dresses? chadors?
Your Bollywood movies wouldn't mean jack shit if it were not for the Urdu dialogue - which BTW is OUR language that we speak at home without the subtitles (or dictionaries) you assholes have to read to understand YOUR own movies.

Stop stealing our Paki songs, because after Javed Akhtar, you may well have the end of "Indian" Ghazals - the backbone of most Bollywood songs. All good shairi is in Urdu - the language of Pakistan. Only the Hindi news as in "Some Achaar Some Apt hui" is your language - and even I can't understand it while I can understand Bollywood movies and Z TV - obviously your SOME ACHAAR and movies are not in the same language.

As for dresses,
Shalwar and Qameez are Muslim in origin and even the words are not Injun. Gharara is Muslim and was invented by Nur Jahan, an Iranian. Even the longer six-yard sari is not Injun. The Injuns used to wear a much shorter version, barely enough to cover the waist and nothing up top - not that I am complaining here, infact damn the Muslims for covering up the Injun tits.

The chador is from Iran, but then the word ghoonghat is Hindu. So, figure that one out. Maybe the Hinjus were also hiding their females' faces long before Tariq or Mahmood arrived with their superior weapons and organs.

{"Forget it, we want nothing to do with you. Just go to your Arabian land and eat your dates."}

We agree on this one. We also don't want anything to do with you - just stop meddling in our country. Also, we will eat our Arabian, Iranian, Californian, Israeli, and even Indian dates - why does that cause you mirchi? We like to eat dates. :(W)

Zee,

Tu hai munafiqoon..you head deserves to be chopped off because you misinterpret Prophet's words and put words in his mouth that he never spoke!!!

and as a hinud tax payer to US gov't - I should be owning part the credit, or blame, as the case may be... right?

Re: # 306 zee

well, the topic was the fight between momins and kafirs, which includes lowly hinoods... as you know - it's always yahood and hinood conspiracy... :)

#309

Why would a hypocrite go to Wana, when he can interact from the comfort of a living room offered only in a democratic society?

Zeemax, go to wana wana or wherever the fk you jihaids blow each other in NWFP, if you see a predator drone circling overhead, just turn around and moon it (your shalwar should already be around your ankles per the dress code among jihadi hijras), when the hellfire comes and lands in your gaand, look at teh inscription. it will say "paid for by CHaltahai's taxes"

that will bring clairty to your quesiton in #306

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#305
angry jihadi,

when you give the same freedom of expression to your own mother and sisters that you give yourself, you would be considered half honest. Until then you would be a full hypocrite.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

zee

That hit you hard, didn't it?... :)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

PS:

And many momins understand that... you can see it right here in chowk. Most paki momins have already lost the appetite for jihad and rampant bedouinism. Except for incorrigible fools like zee and urstruly - most other pakis are ready to be civilized...

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

A.K. Cheema ji,

'before this 'nishan-e-manzil' can afford to widen its horizons, it needs to get through the next few years to establish some institutional control over its internal affairs; then to address INTERNAL injustices first before embarking upon EXTERNAL adventures.'

I have not read all of your interacts, but based on this one, I have to tell you that you have pinpointed the problem. And, I hope the day never comes where Pakistan has to interfere in the affairs of other nations. It is better to solve its own problems first and then go on becoming even better than that.

May I say that with Pakistanis like you there's hope for your country.

kaal

your attempt to catch your own tail is an excercise in futility... it's very simple really - if momins try to kill me, I will whack them back - it doesn't matter who committed the "injustice", where and when...

Momins can take their "cry me a river" mentality and shove it where they want - kafirs don't really care... momins must understand that... otherwise, it's hellfires and daisy-cutters... there ain't a thing momins can do about it...

re #282

Laddu Sahib,
you got it wrong on all three counts: I am neither Muslim, nor a Mian nor only a humanist.

#285Cheema Sahib,
Excellent post!

kaal yaar, it almost always comes down to subjectivity and relativity. Injustice to a muslim might not be injustice to a non-muslim and vice versa. To suggest that muslim perception of injustice should be universal is not only stupid, it belittles muslims to nothing more than kneeling and bobbing automatons who haven't a working brain cell to understand the other viewpoint. I am sure this is not what you are suggesting.

Secondly, robbing me for my own good because you perceive it to be something beneficial for me and yourself is another idiocy that can land people in the nuthouse.


Lastly, what muslims perceive as injustice or not is irrelevant. They haven't the power, the resources or the intellect to promote their views in a manner that 5/6th of humanity understands. All this jihadism etc..is not some coordinated strategic push for establishing the word of god. It is simply a cry for help for seeing the word of man trump the word of god. They are getting left behind...and if that means tehy should be separated from the rest of the world, as per their wishes and that might in some way lead to a revival of a khilafa or something, than so be it. The next few hundred years are the age of the idol worshippers...and payback is a bitch.

Re: # 295

Whatever makes you happy brother!

Of all the things thrown at me, this is the funniest. :) :)

Cheema ji, hope that is the (original) ka of Kipling's books, not ka of the movies!

Re: # 293don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice).

arent you supposed to do like......sssssuch ....asss urssssetruly.......ssssso long assss they .....of Issslaam..... that's how he (Ka) did it in 'The Jungle Book'!

laddu ji, basically, money in your pocket does not belong to you if you are using it to further unjust causes. Removing it from your pocket is not robbing. It is actually helping you become a better person.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think that momeens will be jailed and the Quran will be banned anywhere.

--------------

As a practical matter, don't be so afraid of people of principle, such as tahemdji or Urstruly (so long as they stricly adhere to principles of Islam/justice). People with whom non-Muslims need to be extremely careful are those who divide the world in areas in which Islam operates (inhabited by non-Muslims), and areas in which Islam does not operate (inhabited by Muslims).

This is getting dragged unnecessarily. You can have the last word on this for now.

Re: # 288 Eklavya

Is this your new (perhaps always has been) position; to be the spokes-person for others and have an explanation handy, ready to go at the drop of a hat?

Re: No 290; Laddu

Give it a rest now please; I think you have made your point (several times actually). Thank you.

Re: # 286

laddu,

Many women in pakistan are taking this 72 virgin stuff literally, and they are eloping at a young age so that they do not become victims of some jihadi.

NWFP today has performed the first stoning to death to counteract this tendency. see dawn of today

Re: # 287

"As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! "


what the heck!! How is it MY problem and not a momeen's problem??
It is like some body trying to rob saying that he believes that it is right and it is YOUR (victim's) problem if he considers it as wrong!!

WTF, you have completely screwed up logic of the Islamists!

This is indeed a momeen's problem and he better change himself if he wants to live with good will amongst kafirs and idolators without brandishing his sword all the time or waving that book of threats called Quran in our face.
You know - making threats is punishable offence in modern world and any momeen trying to threaten us by waving Quran should be put behind bars.
Nay, his Quran should be BANNED!!!

We may not agree with the life choices of such people, but they are not our biggest challenge. Simply because they have a moral compass, howsoever different than ours.

For all non-Muslims, the biggest challenge is presented by those Muslims (Pakistanis, for our discussions) who require only non-Muslims (non-Pakistanis) to be just, and assume Pakistani state to be just simply by the virtue of being Pakistani.

(In other words, as far as the outside world is concerned, there is no difference between these two groups of people.)

Hope Ustruly bhai will forgive me for lifting his most recent post, but here it is. It is about implementing justice in Pakistan first.

-------------

#211 Posted by Urstruly on April 1, 2008 5:42:28 pm
Re: # 202 hamidm

My demands are simple. As a matter of fact it is the only way to save yourself from mohammeden killers:

1. Force army itself to court martial Musharaff for treason etc.

2. Establish independent election commission

3. Re-enact all deposed judges.

4. GOP must apologize to people of Swat, Waziristan, Baluchistan; pay Qisas and Diyat to all effected Pakistanis there.

5. GOP must apologize to nation for the tragedy of Lal Masjid; pay Qisas and Diyat.

6. Hold new elections with in next 3-6 months.

7. Annul all constitutional ammendments post October 1999.

If these basic steps are not done not just Mohammedens but rest of Pakistan will be asking for the head on the platter of these political leaders just like they are asking for the head of musharraf now

cheema ji,

People agree with you. Urstruly, zee and other followers of Islam are doing precisely what you require of them - addressing internal Pakistani injustices first (Urstruly is more explicit and impatient of the two).

--------

This is a much more honest view than the blind labeling of any Islamic effort at addressing INTERNAL Pakistani injustices alone as pure criminality. That's not only dishonest but also foolish. Justice will not spare anyone.

----------------------------

laddu mahraj

Yaar, this is getting too far afield. I am telling you - Muslim pursue and will always keep pursing justice. You can ask any believing Muslim and see if that is true or not.

As a non-Muslim, you, or mohar, or CA obviously don't see Islamic justice as justice, but that is not Muslims' problem! The concept of Islamic justice follows strictly from the Quran (and the life of the Prophet).

Re: # 284

"It might help to think of Jihad as pursuit of justice. Those 72 virgins, kafir loot etc, if any, are the rewards of pursuing justice through jihad.

So long as the non-Muslim/non-Pakistani world does not become just, Pakistani jihad will not stop. And no war sees continuous live action."

Miyan Kaale Khan,

Can you tell us what is your concept of "injustice" that is different from the ordinary "principles of justice" that is so clearly enshrined in the kafir world's constitutions and laws??

Is it "injustice" when a mushriq like me speaks and ridicules the threats of death that emanate from Quran all the time??

Is is "injustice" when a mushriq like me speaks against the threats from Quran and Mohammad to destroy my idols?

Is it "injustice" when an idolator speak against momeens trying to rape my women and loot my hard earned assets?

Is it "injustice" when I seek the right to build my temples and install new idols in the momeen lands ??

Is it "injustice" when I reject Sunnat as the most regressive of all the 'moral' codes that need to be consigned to dust bin??

Tell us Kaale Khan ji what is your concept of "injustice" that is superior to that enshrined in the code of human rights??

Re: # 283 Eklavya
"I argued that when Pakistanis see injustice outside of Pakistan's boundaries, some of them will rise to actively fight it, when and if they can, or can afford to."

Eklavya I am not sure what the hell you are talking about; I fear you are even less sure on that than I am!

What injustices and what reward?!! What about ALL the injustices going on within the boundaries of Pakistan to its OWN poor, disadvantaged, women etc; you have a very narrow armchair view of the world man!

There are many nations around the world with perceived injustices; they are not using the same tactics; what makes the Muslims so special?

I think you need to decide which side you are on; either openly confess to being a radical Muslim or try not to participate in discussions with such a narrow view point. I went through a big chunk of your recent interacts collectively and guess what? you seem to be a bigger Jihadi then anyone else I have seen on these boards! Be true to yourself and declare where your allegiances lie so we know what the hell we are dealing with!

btw; before this 'nishan-e-manzil' can afford to widen its horizons, it needs to get through the next few years to establish some institutional control over its internal affairs; then to address INTERNAL injustices first before embarking upon EXTERNAL adventures.

It might help to think of Jihad as pursuit of justice. Those 72 virgins, kafir loot etc, if any, are the rewards of pursuing justice through jihad.

So long as the non-Muslim/non-Pakistani world does not become just, Pakistani jihad will not stop. And no war sees continuous live action.

(All this is assuming that Pakistan will continue to be a place where many believers live.)

We have gotten sidetracked into discussing tricky Islamic-unIslamic issues, dr mohar and CA bhai :)

My argumment/suggestion was rather simple - about what we can expect to happen sooner or later. I argued that when Pakistanis see injustice outside of Pakistan's boundaries, some of them will rise to actively fight it, when and if they can, or can afford to.

I reject the view that Pakistanis would FOREVER and totally abandon Jihad as a 'mistake of the past'.

------------

What injustice is, whether Pakistanis should or should not militarily interfere in the world outside of their geographical boundaries - these issues are simply beyond our ability to hammer out here and, like my or anyone else's personal situation, not even important to the discussion.

Re: # 280

"I for one don't believe that all Muslims want to attack non-Muslims. The inherent Goodness within is very difficult to get rid of, no matter what your beliefs."

Miyan Look Saheb,

You are already a munafiqoon. The seeds of humanism exist in you. The only thing to be seen is whether this humanism can question the actions of your prophet or not?
Can you use this humanism to put the mard-e-momeens and their sunnat under test?
Now question whether "humanism" as a moral world view that puts man at the centre of the universe can ever become part of Islam that puts Allah and his Prophet at the centre and relegates the Kafirs to the dustbin of dhimmitude and consigns mushriqs and idolator hindus like me to Allah's torture chambers??

Please , do question Islam with your humanism. You appear to be a good man.

kaal

cat got your keyboard?... :)

#268 Eklavya,

Fighting injustice doesn't have to mean forgetting one's humanity.

#269

Laddu ji,

I for one don't believe that all Muslims want to attack non-Muslims. The inherent Goodness within is very difficult to get rid of, no matter what your beliefs.

#274 Posted by Eklavya

... will Pakistanis always allow injustice to flourish around the world without doing their part?

Pakistan manzil nahin, nishan-e-manzil hai.

(Gen Retd Hameed Gul)

"if a muslim attacks a non-muslim based on some ill perceived injustice"

braather kaal, who defines the injustice? If a muslim attacks an illperceived injustice and attacks, isn't that circular logic? A concept you are quite defensive about?

And on the flip side - when momins do injustice on your kafir self, what's your plan of action?

Re: # 273 kaal

That's the question. Have you done and/or supported "injustice" to the momins?

pandit ji, that is much better.

As a practical matter, though, if you look through entire history, you will find that wherever and whenever Muslims are accused of attacking non-Muslims, they ALWAYS did so because non-Muslims were UNJUST. The only exceptions might be (and I am not sure of this) in the early days of Allah's message being received, when a sufficient number had to convinced, even if they at first rejected it.

Thereafter it's been a self-propelled, rolling mechanism spreading justice everywhere.

---------

To return to Mr. Naqvi's article, will Pakistanis always allow injustice to flourish around the world without doing their part? We will have wait and see...

gtg, see ya later, pandit ji.

---------------

mohar11, of course! If I support injustice I will be attacked. Nothing special about me or anyone else.

Re: # 268 kaal

Yep - and the outside world has the right to attack back... which is what happening now - hellfires and daisy-cutters are raining down... momeens are being blasted to heaven in droves...

Question is - what about you personally?... you as an outside kafir person - do you deserve to be personally attacked?

Re: # 268 kaal

Yep - and the outside world has the right to attack back... which is what happening now - hellfires and daisy-cutters are raining down... momeens are being blasted to heaven in droves...

Question is - what about you personally?... you as an outside kafir person - do you deserve to be personally attacked?

Re: # 270

bhaiyya Kale Khan ,

For a momeen nothing is more "unjust" than a kafir rejecting the Quran after having been told about it's 'divinity'!!!
That itself is a reason for liquidation or enslavement as a dhimmi.

pandit laddu ji mahraj

That is a theological answer, and a wrong one at that. Rejection itself does not necessitate liquidation. It simply means complete domination. Liquidation of all rejectors will be bad political policy in any case.

In human terms, outside world deserves to be attacked primarily because it is unjust.

Re: # 268

Bhaiya Kale Khan,

The outside kafir world is ALWAYS there to be attacked by the momeen hordes. Only through attacks would kafirs be subdued and 1/5 th of the loot distributed in the Ummah. Then of course the steady flow of Jizya would trickle. And imagine all those sex slaves or kafir kaneezas that would be available to the momeens like you.

Yes, indeed the kafir world "deserves" to be attacked because as per the logic of Islam and the paedophile mafiaso profiteer rejection of his supremacy as a profit and his message is the gravest sin deserving liquidation!!

Look, are you assuming that the outside world does not deserve to be attacked?

This article seems to be all over the place.

On one level, it points to some truths like how come no tourist would want to visit Pakistan(such a real shame, considering how much this country can offer), on the other hand, it expresses childish hopes like 'only politics can solve the extremism problem.'

How do you suggest that could be done? The jihadi-killers will only stop attacking within Pakistan if Pakistan allows them to use it as a base attacking outside. How do you think the outside world will would react to that?

#238 Posted by arjun_5:

"Jacob said Osmani was far away in Sylhet. A helicopter was sent, but he could not reach on time as the helicopter was shot at."

This is true. The helicopter was being flown by a cousin of mine. His arm bone had a metal plate screwed on it. My cousin died some years back. According to him they could have died that day itself.

Re: # 263
[...Moulvi Nazir whose office in Wana was hit by a rocket or something yesterday, is pro-Pakistan/USA militia leader ...]

May be he flipped... I know you don't like my saying this - your "tribal" people turn quickly for a few dollars... so this dude may have betrayed US and hellfire was the price to pay...

Congratulations to all...

{Pakistan’s 24-member cabinet sworn in ISLAMABAD, Mar 31 (APP): President Pervez Musharraf administered oath to the 24-member cabinet of premier Yusuf Raza Gilani at a ceremony at Aiwan-i-Sadr on Monday}

These head-wagging madrasi ape types who rant & rave and copy/paste about Taliban all day, do not know that the tribal leader Moulvi Nazir whose office in Wana was hit by a rocket or something yesterday, is the anti-Mehsud and pro-Pakistan/USA militia leader set up by the Pakistan Army to resist Baitullah entering Wana region - and who actually fought a war alongside regular Pakistan army against the Tajiks/Uzbeks in FATA last year.

The idiot doesn't know that it was Baitullah's attack, not USA. But no surprises. Head wagging lowly monkeys will be exactly that.

Hamidm,

"why don't desi men clip their ear and nose hair ? "

Do we have to clip? :D

Cheemaji,

Indians bob their heads to see if both your left and right side concur on what they say...Haven't you seen the hypnotists' bob...:)

"...It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards..."

Momeens use innocent children in order to protect themselves.......what a mafiaso shit religion is this

zeemax #254 A bunch of armed men of the kind you mention is no match either for the Pakistan forces nor a substitute for elections.

Glad we agree on the second point. I was glad to see the picture of an old college friend from the fata areas in Dawn recently who was making a speech in Peshawar about something to do with human rights I think. Although we havent met in 30 years, the picture reminded me of the fact that in fact the educated people from fata are very much part of Pakistan society. So, that crowd represents only part of the story.

#254 Posted by zeemax on March 30, 2008 10:26:28 pm


In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear?


hellfires don't pay for themselves...US forces don't waste them on a gathering of chickenshits such as yourself..they were used to blow up another taliban "militants"..didn't you read?

Re: # 253

Zee,

I have to agree with you. I am no Sharma and no mrs will agree so much with me.

Good on you Mrs sharma, welcome to chowk, let us do the pakibashing, tag team style.

Re: # 254

{there was a huge rally of Pakistani Taliban at Khar in Bajaur Agency yesterday addressed by the Deputy Chief Maulvi Umar.}

Rejected by the majority, they can do their war dance as much as they like, but its a matter of time before they are put to rest.

{...It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards.}

And that does not worry you shows the mental depravation suffered under religious fascism.

{In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear? There were thousands of Taliban in one place which would ordinanarily have been a godsend for the americans.}

Be patient, all in good time.

Re: # 253

In a country where employers can have two accounting books, minimum wage is another excuse to pay lower taxes. Since you live in your world of delusion with no sense of reality let me educate you for free. When mimimum wage was Rs 4,500, employers were paying Rs2,500 to their workers and have then sign on the Rs 4,500 list. No one could complain because of the long que waiting to get in. Point being, this Rs 6,000/pm is nothing but political chicanry when the same people who are parlimentarians are also the violaters.

Another stupid thing was the 1600cc car for those who travel in 3500cc four wheelers, now these fat cats are expected to come down and use these 1600cc's.

Add to the stupidity of allowing student unions without putting any restrictions on carrying arms.

Basically, much of the news is hype created for public consumption, the real issue of power transfer remains to be tested.

#252 Posted by harish_hyd re#121

Going by the logic in this post, doesn't it mean it can be vanquished?

If you want to nitpick, theoretically it can. Going by my personal opinion which you have referred to, it cannot. Satisfied?

#241 Posted by tahmed32 re #224

Whatever the outcome, it seems to me the only thing to watch out for is - will the people of fata have the basic rights the prompted the Chief Justice to take a stand against dictatorship in the first place? Will they be able to vote in free and fair elections for local leaders, or will they continue to be ruled by unelected rulers in the name of "tradition"?

Well ... there was a huge rally of Pakistani Taliban at Khar in Bajaur Agency yesterday addressed by the Deputy Chief Maulvi Umar. Clips were shown on TV. It was quite intriguing to see barely 12-13 year old kids deftly handling AK-47s as guards. Quite amazing. These people mean business ... that's for sure. In fact I don't know how come a predator didn't appear? There were thousands of Taliban in one place which would ordinanarily have been a godsend for the americans.

Anyhow, the clear demand laid out was 'Islamic System' in their areas. So I guess the form of democratic system prevalent in Pakistan will not be acceptable to them. They will continue as quasi-independent as before, though this time under Sharia rule instead of the FCRA.

My own sense is that the forces of change (economic progress due to international community viewing such investments as being in their own immediate interest; opening of fata residents to the outside world due to emigration, education - there are some highly educated people from fata working around the world; impact of a dynamic media in pakistan) in fata are getting stronger by the day. What do you think?

Yes it is quite possible the above occurs. If only we are able to politically accommodate the demands of the FATA people (which we consider unpalatable i.e. Sharia rule &/or support to the Afghan Resistance), I believe the FATA region has great potential in resources and manpower.

#230 Posted by MrsSharma,

LoL ... interesting new incarnation Jayp! Why this particular one? I thought this was the name assigned to a particular indian interactor's wife whose weight, girth, occupation, and rate of remuneration have been the subject of some speculation ...

Re: zee -... has anything changed. Has there been a value shift in the political demands, did any party talk about law and order, jobs and water shortages.

You must be kidding. The minimum wage has been increased from Rs. 4,5000/p.m to Rs. 6,000/p.m, one-job per family has been committed, the 30-day judiciary restoration countdown starts from today, and brick-lining of irrigation canals has been announced as the first quick-win project in conserving water by preventing seepage. All this is even 'before' the Government has been sworn-in which is today.

I thought injuns were more adept at reading Pakistani news than Pakistanis themselves!! Missed them yesterday?

#121 by zeemax

Point is, you ignoramus, that if something never existed before (though it actually did for some fifty years), it doesn't mean it can never exist!

Tying yourself up in knots, are you? You keep claiming that Muslim civilization has never been vanquished before. Going by the logic in this post, doesn't it mean it can be vanquished?

Re: # 249

I agree, Pakis must has mastered the technology of car parts that they can be rigged as bombs........the sickness of momeen mind is so typical that it even affects the closet murtids that they also behave exactly like the Islamists outwordly even if they remain murtids in thought!!!

Re: # 248; Hamidm Sahib

a quick question. It has bothered me for a long time; even more than "the chicken and egg" dilemma!

Why do Indians bob their heads from side to side when the speak?

Cheers

#245 Posted by mohar11 on March 30, 2008 4:04:32 pm


Yep, while hanoods are "taking over" the world of automobile with their Tatas


hamidm's brothers have a lock on the auto parts business..i.e. making automobile parts from automobiles i.e. car bombers market...

Re: # 245

mohar,


.... batas? .... who the heck are they ? ......... i thought it was a swiss/chezk shoe company whose products have been used to terrorize children for many generations ........ my butt still hurts when i hear that name - don't tell me you dastardly hindoos are behind this chamber of horrors !

Re: # 240

tahmed

"The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner. Life is plentiful. Life is cheap in the Orient."

Re: # 243

anil mian,

.... either the guy had bunions or he was an indian in disguise ........ another question: why don't desi men clip their ear and nose hair ? ..... even observant jihadis who religiously shave their armpits and pubic hair have the same problem .......... what's up with that ?

Yep, while hanoods are "taking over" the world of automobile with their Tatas and world of high fashion with their Batas - hamidm's compatriots are running wild in ankle length pants with a bombs on their chests and dreams of 72 virgins in their hearts.... :)

Now anil, if he was wearing bata's then he would certainly be a fashionista...:-)

Re: # 233

Hamidm Sahib:

... but here is a more important question for you: why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants - it bothers the crap out of me !..."

Until last week this used to blow the heck out of me too. A friend of mine is visiting from Chicago, and both of us went to Gucci Store in Santana Row here in San Jose last week. A blue-eyed tall blonde all american salesperson in impeccable blue suit walked up to us to greet us.

Guess what else he was wearing.

Yes, white sneekers!!!!!

Neither of us could take the eyes of, and at simultaneously said, "Indian Fashion Has Arrived at Gucci".

I wonder if any Indian has patented it.

hamid
[....why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants...]

or for that matter, open toe sandals with dress pants... who knows?... hanood fashion works in mysterious ways...

But it's still better than wearing ankle pajamas and a vest stuffed with dynamite - like what zeemax and urstruly are wearing right now...:)

#224 zeemax: You are right that pakistani military incursion into fata broke the long-standing "deal" the locals had made with the brits and which the Pakistani governments carried forward.

As the pm said, at least the ball has been set rolling in considering the FCR issue. No doubt an open debate in the NA creates the possibility of a reasonable solution. Options range from 1. retaining the status quo (i.e. fata are "special territories") to 2. making fata a fourth province to 3. making fata additional districts as part of NWFP.

Whatever the outcome, it seems to me the only thing to watch out for is - will the people of fata have the basic rights the prompted the Chief Justice to take a stand against dictatorship in the first place? Will they be able to vote in free and fair elections for local leaders, or will they continue to be ruled by unelected rulers in the name of "tradition"?

My own sense is that the forces of change (economic progress due to international community viewing such investments as being in their own immediate interest; opening of fata residents to the outside world due to emigration, education - there are some highly educated people from fata working around the world; impact of a dynamic media in pakistan) in fata are getting stronger by the day.

What do you think?

hamidm #226 i have told you many times that namecalling is not an argument. you have been calling for for banning masadi who has the same problem - are going to call for yourself to be banned now?

as for what westmoreleand, i told you not to hide behind someone who is not around to speak for himself.

I wont waste time going around in circles with you. Just remember those four fingers you have been pointing at yourself that I brought to your attention next time you get the urge to start insulting poor people from your high and lofty perch in michigan.

#222 zeemax: "I welcome that double edged sword. There must be justice to all - period. That's the first principle. Everything else is secondary."

So we are agreed on this central issue then.

speaking of wars..this is how the paki army's chaddi was removed...note the impotent rage...

'Niazi was forced to surrender in public in Dhaka'
Saturday, 29 March , 2008, 13:30

Dhaka: The Pakistani general whose surrender signalled the liberation of Bangladesh, did so, much against his wishes, "before the people of Dhaka", says the Indian officer who organised in 1971 modern history's only public surrender by a vanquished force.

Pakistan's Lt Gen. A A K Niazi was reluctant and wanted to discuss "only a ceasefire under the UN". Later, he agreed to surrender, but in his office.

Niazi later claimed that he had been "blackmailed" into surrendering at a public ceremony, watched by thousands, at Dhaka's Race Course (now Suhrawardy Udyan).

"But I did not blackmail him," insists Lt Gen. (retd) J F R Jacob of the Indian Army to whom instructions from New Delhi were merely: "Go and get surrender".

Jacob narrated the events of December 16, 1971, over 36 years after they happened, during his current visit at the invitation of Bangladesh Army Chief Gen. Moin U Ahmed.

Niazi, unwilling to surrender and that too in public, relented after prolonged talks when told that there could be retaliation from angry people of Dhaka, The Daily Star said on Saturday.

Giving Niazi 30 minutes to make up his mind, Jacob walked out. "Going back, I put the paper on his table and asked him, 'Do you accept this document?' For three times he didn't answer and I picked it up and said (it's) taken as accepted," he went on.

During the negotiations, he also asked the Pakistani general to surrender his revolver. "He put a dirty little revolver. The lanyard was dirty and frayed in parts."

In his book Surrender at Dacca: Birth of a Nation, Jacob said he realised only later that the pistol was not Niazi's. It was a normal army issue .38 revolver.


"The barrel was choked with muck and apparently had not been cleaned for some considerable time... More likely, Niazi had taken it from one of his military policemen and surrendered it as his personal weapon. I could not help feeling that in his own way, Niazi had got a little of his own back," he wrote.

The surrender was before joint India-Bangladesh forces, to which Major General Rao Farman Ali of the Pakistan Army objected. Pakistanis, 93,000 officers and men, would surrender only to Indians, he said.

Jacob said the Pakistani officers were livid at the "humiliation" and swore that they would take badla (revenge).

In holding a public ceremony, the Indians were taking a risk too, with not many troops mobilised yet.

"I knew we had hardly any troops outside Dhaka and it was problematic for public surrender... But had it been better to be in safety and make him surrender in his office? No. I wanted him to face the people."

Recollecting those historic moments, the architect of surrender ceremony said, "Niazi retorted, 'Dhaka would fall over my dead body'. But I did it the way I thought it should be. I didn't have any directives or instructions for it. Was it wrong, I ask you?"

Gen. M A G Osmani, chief of Bangladeshi forces, could not be present at the surrender ceremony, a point that has rankled the Bangladeshis.

Jacob said Osmani was far away in Sylhet. A helicopter was sent, but he could not reach on time as the helicopter was shot at.

Re: # 228

I guess those indian soldiers went out for a "morning walk"; but only if they knew that the railway tracks here are electrified.

rockets red glare, the bombs busting in air



Missile hits Taliban leader’s office

Our staff reporter
WANA — A missile hit office of a local Taliban commander, Mulla Nazir Wazir, in Dok area of Wana, South Wazirsiatn, on Sunday after noon. The administration said it was a remote controlled bomb.
Because of the off day, no causality occurred, however the office was razed to ground, the local reports said. The local Talibans claim that the office of Mulla Nazir was hit with a missile fired from somewhere. Two weeks back, in the same area another missile hit a local Taliban hideout wherein number of people were killed.
However, the administration, said that building was destroyed because of remote controlled bomb installed near Mulla Nazir’s office. An official of political administration said that they were investigating the matter and at present could not form any opinion, adding that after investigation, administration would make public the findings of the reports.

#228 Posted by hamidm2 on March 30, 2008 10:40:57 am

OHMYGOD...they must be planning terrorist attacks!!...

oh wait...no..that would be something DHS would look for if paki soldiers went missing...

Re: # 227 "the tribals are basically petty thieves and brigands who are easily manipulated ......"

Seven years now, and the petty thieves still don't show any sign of getting manipulated

Re: # 232

anil mian,

.... that question was not meant for you, it was meant for for arjun mian and other horrible hindoos who think that a hindoo's poo doesn't smell any more even though he still squats on the railroad tracks ........ you can disregard that question ......

... but here is a more important question for you: why do indian men wear sneakers with dress pants - it bothers the crap out of me !

Re: # 228

Hamidm Sahib:

"...It has emerged that the two soldiers went missing ...
Camp Pendleton is one of the largest marine corps bases in the US...."

Would you not go missing too? Consider the choices...

Kargil Heights and Sandy Beaches of California

No, honestly, Hamidm Sahib. I wish these courageous soldiers a great start in their new life. These soldiers have shown that there is one more way to be part of American Dream,

Flying planes into Manhattan or flying out of Camp Pendelton?

Now how would you define the bravery? Brave soldiers, Bravo.

All of pakistanis talk about re-appointing the sacked judges. They miss the point that of paki legal system and judgements can vary so mush between a mushy appointed judge and a Zardari appointed judge, well there is no legal system in pakistan that is worth restoring. No one, not even a single paki on chowk dares to address the fundamental issue, why should the legal system be so dependant on the personalities of the judges. If mushy can change the entire legal system by changing a few judges, well paki lawyers can curl up and die in shame.

zee -

It is all elimentary. It was only you guys talking about the end of mushy, the PPP and company getting two third mjority etc etc ..and a golden era for pakistan. You all have failed to ask the basic question, has anything changed. Has there been a value shift in the political demands, did any party talk about law and order, jobs and water shortages. It is all personal politics in pakistan, you can see that even on chowk by the educated like you..the name calling, abuse and teh un-mentionalble in urdu and these are done primarily by the pakis.

Irrelevant non-sense that si what the pakis are famous for, while the jihadis are blasting your doors apart.

Re: # 228

hamid m,

no big deal. some paki soldiers went missing in india too during kargil

arjun, laddu, jayp

have you seen these guys ????

Indian soldiers go missing in US

Two Indian soldiers who went to the United States with an Indian army contingent are reported missing.
Officials suspect they could be trying to enter the US illegally.

The Indian troops went to the US earlier this month for joint counter-terrorism exercises at Camp Pendleton in California.

Correspondents say that some Indian sportsmen have gone missing during the foreign tours. But it is rare for the soldiers to go missing.

It has emerged that the two soldiers went missing on 20 March, the last day of the exercises.

Camp Pendleton is one of the largest marine corps bases in the US.

Re: # 224

zeemax,

.... i think a policy of 'negotiations' accompanied with bribery and targeted killings of their leadership will work ...... the tribals are basically petty thieves and brigands who are easily manipulated ......

Re: # 219

tahmed,

... you are a weasel ... always trying to wriggle out of the silly positions that you manage to put yourself in with your self-righteous nonsense .... your rectitude is a pretentious sham ....

... anyway, i stand by my contention that westmoreland was right - life has no meaning for people who value death .... you can see it on the streets of baghdad and basra everyday ......

Re: # 224

Tampax

Mabrook, you have scored 50 hits (posts), highest scorer without a doubt. Chowk staff, please take note of this tremendous effort, it deserves some sort of recognition.

tahmed,

#105 Posted by zeemax re #101 Posted by viqarm,

ANP and Maulana Fazlur-Rehman are not 'Tribals'. The opposing tribals of PPPP are all tribal 'Maliks'. The abolition of FCR means a complete redefining of relations with FATA which will abolish the tribal Maliks as well, so they of-course would be against it.

But you have to understand that the Tribal Malik system, in tandem with the federally appointed Political Agents, fell apart in 2005 when militant rebellion took place establishing a parallel system and killed 200 plus Maliks. The abolition of FCRA will make possible the drawing up of a new agreement with FATA taking into account the new Tribal order.

#221 Posted by tahmed32,

I wrote a post to viqarm earlier on the FCRA abolishment issue. Wait lemme find it. You'll find it useful.

#220 Posted by tahmed32,

I welcome that double edged sword. There must be justice to all - period. That's the first principle. Everything else is secondary.

zeemax: one of the most interesting things in the pm's program is abolishing the FRC. Another example of a double edged sword - while it provides the people of FATA the same basic rights that the Chief Justice stood up for on the one hand, in doing so it also denies unelected "tribal elders" the "right" to rule as unaccountable, unchecked law-givers.

#215 zeemax: let us indeed hope. you realize of course that the rule of law is a double-edged sword - while one edge has cut musharraf and his lawless kidnappings, the other edge cuts those who attack innocent people whether on 3/11 in pakistan or on 9/11 in the US.

#216 hamidm: i brought up the edhi foundation to counter your claim that pakistani society does not respect human life as an excuse, and in pointing a finger at Pakistan you pointed four at yourself and your pretensions about being part of a civilized society that respects life!!

not to make any claims on my charitable contributions which is what your brought up (and where i am not going to get start bragging about on the internet as you are by implication).

Re: # 217

anil mian,

....... i didn't know there were goats on this forum !!!

First half of my last post (#97) got eaten.

Re: # 214

tahmed,

..... you are the one who brought up the edhi foundation and i accepted your position at face value ..... forget about the past and all the good stuff you have done - if you really believe in the cause here is an opportunity to do some more good ... i will match every dollar you give to him starting right now .......

#210 Posted by tahmed32,

Okay I'm glad you welcome it. It's a great step forward. All your concerns will be laid to rest.

But, the support to GWOT of the hamidm2s will have to end NOW! Otherwise all pacts will be broken.

#212 hamidm: you may be sister teresa herself in real life for all i care. that does not change the logic of what you wrote.

and btw, dont automatically assume you have contributed more to charitable causes than i have - we have been involved regularly in this for the past thirty years. and we can discuss that next time i am in michigan.

#209 Posted by hamidm2,

So it's another Hudabiya? Is that what you're saying?

Well ... I don't think so. I think it's the treaty with the Ansars!

Re: # 207

tahmed,

....... okay, put your money where your mouth is - i will match your contributions to the edhi foundation dollar for dollar and you can match every dollar i give to the fool imran khan ...... deal ?

#195 CreateAlpha: see my response to hamidm below. applies to you as well.

zeemax: greetings. on your question concering my illustrious views wrt the deal offered by the new government to those fighting pakistan army. basically, i think this is the kind of step any reasonable government would take.

However, note its implications: it means they will stop fighting pakistani forces and start respecting the Pakistani laws and constitution - which of course means that they stop harboring those who would be considered criminals in the pakistan constitution in their midst. Who knows where this leads to - but one thing is for sure. This deal carries the dignity of the Pakistani people behind it - it is a different deal than one musharraf was claiming to make (which was basically another example of musharraf being "overclever" to stay in illegal power).