Surviving Musharraf's Exit?

mohar, our secularism will work better if we recognize and expect communal politics. So long as there is communalism (as will always be in India so long as Hindus rule) in India, there will be communal politics.

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salim bro is just pointing to facts, GT! :)) There is no Hindu 'nation' as such, it is a name for a deeply divided set of peoples who choose to live as one.

Re: # 411:
"
IF we want secularism to work in India (while Hindus have power) we need to take our essential communal nature into account.
"
Secularism is inherent in Dharmic Panths. You are asking a duck to quack like a duck.

If GOI should remove word religion from its dictionary/constitution. Stop Haj subsidies for which it collects money from Hindu temples such as Pandharpur then probably the state will be secular.

Indian Dharmic people are secular but the Indian state is not.

#408 Posted by Salim_Chauhan:

Chauhan sahib,

Now you are DIVIDING up the Hindu nation! Next, are you shall be planning to RULE! Hmmmm, given your Persian/Timurid/Rajput lineage this could very well work. Sir, aap turant Kaangresi ban jaye ... baki hum dekh lenge.

Re: # 411

Secularism is already working in india. Once again you are confusing secular with communal...

Communal problem will be solved once we stop appeasing to communal elements on both sides of the divide. It has nothing to do with secularism itself...

LOL, tahmedji, HP (and I) have made that point ourselves many times before. :)

#400 eklavia: in the interests of accuracy, let me remind you that it is us lowly, terrorist, illiterate pakis who are "indic people" (Indic = from river Indus).

Perhaps you should refer to "Gangetic people"? But that leave poor jay thakeray sitting high and dry thousands of miles from the holy ganga where, but for the dakshinapatha that introduced human civilization from the north, owls would still be talking (to translate from the urdu phrase).

So, perhaps you should use the term "indic-backyard people" (no offense meant by use of the term "backyard") which would certainly be consistent with history and would also bring poor jay into the fold of civilization: the term "indus" (i.e. people of the river indus) was used to refer to themselves by soldiers from these parts in the persian achaemenid empire, thus found its way west during the greco-persian wars of 4-500 BC and simply extended to the rest of the subcontinent (seen as a kind of backyard to the indus valley). Again, no offense to gentle souls like you, but good to stay accurate.

Heck, that is not a suggestion that anyone SHOULD!!

Re: # 408

All depends what dalits regard themselves as. If they are not hinuds, then they are not dalits either, because only hindus are supposed to part of this caste system...

Well, we CHOSE to be a communal country by retaining large chunks of oppositely directed communities within. We will always be communal so long as Hindus retain power.

I have always said Pakistan has been lucky in not having communal problem.

IF we want secularism to work in India (while Hindus have power) we need to take our essential communal nature into account.

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Mohar, by an Indic person one means a person following the Indic set of ideas. ANYBODY who follows those ideas (even if they are Muslim/Christian/Hindu) can be an Indic person.

My feeling is that a Muslim cannot be a Muslim by giving up Islam, but if one does, there can be no problem.

kaal,

Thanks for explaining things in such a clear way. Please take it on from here.

Moharuddin bhaijan,

"because they do NOT demand merger of church or temmple and state."

I wonder why not!

Re: # 396:
"
I was not referring to the Hindu faith but to the Hindu communal identity
"

Do Hindus have communes where Non-Hindus are barred? Are non-hindus not allowed to enter leadership or management positions in these communes? If you consider villages/town/cities/district/states/India then pl show me one where non-Hindus are evicted or barred.

Islamic conquest of Indian subcontinent that from every Muslim majority region of this region – without exception –be it Pakistan, Bangladesh or from India's own Kashmir valley, non-Muslims have been massively driven out to Hindu-majority India.

This whole concept of a "Hindu" India is pure nonsense. There is a huge Dalit population in India that is considered "Hindu" for demographic jingoism, but hardly included for the benefits of "Shining" India. "Upper" caste Hindus, while being low-class humans, hog the material resources of the country. If you were to count the Dalits, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, aboriginal peoples, as non-Hindus, the remaining rump is not the much-touted "Hindu" majority. Moghuls and Muslim rulers knew this secret and it seems, so does the new coalition in Utter Pradish.

Re: # 404 kaal

So you are saying that a person can not be a muslim AND a indic person at the same time...

Is that true?

Re: # 402

People are confused with two different concepts "secular" and "communal"... India is very much a secular country where people still have communal and ethnic tensions...

Secularism is not supposed to help solve such tensions...

Re: # 402

People are confused with two different concepts "secular" and "communal"... India is very much a secular country where people still have communal and ethnic tensions...

Secularism is not supposed to help solve such tensions...

Surely, if he is not Muslim.