Surviving Musharraf's Exit?

Re: # 594

Why blank, please?

Re: # 591

A correction in the second line:

Read 'chhadia' for 'chhade', please.

Re: # 590

Wah allah_mian lage raho!

"Waang mamoliaan asi des chhade
Zaat zamaat te bheis keyha"

(We have left our country like migratory birds
What does our identity, ethnicity, dress, etc., meant for us now?"

Waris Shah

Who expects Shahbaz Sharif as the chief minister of Punjab to welcome Musharraf at the airport in case of his supposed visit to Lahore?

Musharraf has successfully entered himself into the list of ten most hated historical personalities for progressive Pakistanis, whose identity is land and cultural based.

Re: # 396

dost_mittar ji

This is indeed the crux of the socio-political problem in the Indian sub-continent - faith versus communal (or cultural/national) identity. Jinnah, in advocating his Two-Nation Theory also seldom talked of religious differences, but of communal and cultural differences among Hindus and Muslims. But what actually happened: Pakistan was turned into a ‘Fatwa’ state wherein the most important identity was one’s faith to be determined by one's declaration to be submitted not to Allah, who is, according to Quran even, the true arbiter of one’s faith, but to the state functionaries who may not be believing in God even.

Arbab Raheem manhandled in Sindh Assembly and prevented from taking oath ... things heating up. Yesterday PML-N women forcibly occupied PML house in Karachi (see gallery).

#586 Posted by Skeptical,

Looks like a 'Great Betrayal' is in the works. An extract from my post on the other board:

... the unanimous vote for PM, the PPP delagtions to MQM, the distancing from restoration of judiciary and removal of president - and most importantly Ch. Ahmed Mukhtar, the Defence Minister's statement that musharraf is an asset because he's a salable commodity for foreign assistance.

There seem to be more trials & tribulations on the horizon.

In continuation of my post 530....
What kind of exit we are having illustions and misconception about....

This is the The News Editorial

Disturbing signs



Saturday, April 05, 2008
The issue of restoration of the deposed judges is already causing cracks and friction not only in the grand political coalition but within the ranks of the PPP as well. Barrister Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan has even gone on record to unfold what he calls a constitutional package, born and bred in the presidency, to selectively screen out the judges not liked by the presidency, foremost among them Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry. Under the attractive garb of providing sovereignty to parliament, Aitzaz says, all judges would be dismissed and then re-appointed after scrutiny by a parliamentary committee where the pro-presidency elements would rake up dirt against the unwanted judges and eliminate them. On Thursday this warning by Aitzaz was almost confirmed by PPP co-chairman Asif Ali Zardari at the PPP CEC meeting at Naudero, when he said the restoration of the judges would be linked to the judiciary reforms package, a position different from the Bhurban Accord. There are also reports that Mr Zardari publicly snubbed and rebuked Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan in Naudero on the judges issue, asking him to stop threatening long marches and stop claiming the credit for the restoration of democracy because, according to Mr Zardari, it was Benazir Bhutto's ultimate sacrifice and not the lawyers' movement or judges' sacking which led to the elections and the return to democracy. These signs of bitterness within the PPP are unfortunate, but the main coalition partner of the PPP, the PML-N, is also not going to like the way things are moving and an urgent session of the party was held on Friday to discuss the developments.

Reforming the judiciary, and doing it through parliament, is the right thing but the impression that the presidency is pulling the strings has to be quickly dispelled by the PPP leadership. In fact instead of doing that, statements by new PPP ministers have almost confirmed that the party sees no harm in getting, and appearing, closer to Mr Musharraf. Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar has gone too far in calling Mr Musharraf "a national asset" and describing him as a marketable commodity to bring money into Pakistan. What could be more nauseating after the Feb 18 verdict of the people? Such public statements would only create fissures in the coalition and quickly stamp the label on the PPP of being Mr Musharraf's 'B' team. Mr Mukhtar's remarks also fly directly in the face of the massive anti-Musharraf mandate on Feb 18. It is also a fact that the administrative and legal machinery which was in place before the elections has not been touched as yet by the new PPP government. Even the key post of attorney general is still occupied by the insufferable Malik Mohammed Qayyum and the new law minister, Farook Naek, says there is no move afoot to replace him. The extra warmth shown by the PPP for former allies of Mr Musharraf, including the MQM, has not only raised some red flags within the PPP but has also added credence to the doubts that the PPP is trying to gather enough numbers to make the PML-N irrelevant because the presidency so desires.

The PML-Q, minus the Chaudhrys of Gujrat, is also privately claiming to come on board the grand coalition soon. There have been reports that the unqualified and unconditional support to the PM extended by the PML-Q, led ironically by a former PPP stalwart who defected in 2002, Makhdoom Faisal Saleh Hayat, was at the behest of the presidency. Likewise Pir Pagara's group, and all others on the fringe, did not blink an eye and joined the PPP bandwagon for a unanimous vote. If it was all for democracy it might be welcome, but this definitely is not so. The stubborn attitude of the presidency, despite public rebuffs and embarrassments, points to some hope somewhere that the new political setup could be moulded according to the wishes of Mr Musharraf. At least he is not giving up without a fight. This scenario does not provide hope for a stable polity. The PPP has to stem this growing feeling of approaching turbulence by asserting that it will stick to its commitments to the Bhurban Accord and would not let the basic coalition with the PML-N break up. It must take the PML-N into confidence before this issue erupts on the public stage. The main partners should be clear about the reforms package and the PPP's soft overtures to the Musharraf camp. Any constitutional package in parliament should not have the stamp of a child born out of conspiracies in the presidency. It must be acceptable to the civil society and not negate the electoral mandate against Mr Musharraf.

the wheels are coming off the delusion express
this is what happens when pakis resort to self-deception...when certain ivy league grads from rutgers were told Purchasing power equivalent numbers were the real numbers, they gave us some BS about how inflation numbers are mis-reported...

gotta thank mushy..he bought F-16s that come with enough restrictions to make them worthless against India...money well spent as far as India is concerned...thanks to that F-16 deal, now India has a choice of more advanced F-16s or F-18s and can still continue to spend more on education as a % of GDP..

all hail mushy....


16m more people pushed below poverty line after 1999: Dar

By our correspondent

LAHORE: Finance Minister Ishaq Dar has said that the government will change its foreign investment policy to discourage temporary investments meant to generate quick profits and take back investments.

Addressing a conference organised by the South Asia Federation of Accountants on Friday, he said new foreign investment policy would encourage long-term investment in agro-based and manufacturing industries to create jobs.

Dar said the government would have to take some painful measures to avoid any financial disaster in the future, adding that only the rich would feel the brunt of these measures. "The coalition government will change monetary and fiscal policies to eradicate poverty," he added. He said the pro-rich policies implemented by the previous government had marginalised the poor and the food inflation had changed the basic poverty parameters.

He said one US dollar could buy seven kg of flour in 1999 and one dollar income per day then rightly defined the poverty line. He said 16 million more people had been pushed below the poverty line after 1999.

"The purchasing power of a dollar has declined drastically since then. Now one dollar is just enough to buy three kg of flour," he said, adding that genuine evaluation revealed that anybody earning less than $3 per day was living below the poverty line. "The previous government's claim that poverty has been reduced from 34 to 23.5 percent is misleading because it used the parameter of one dollar per day," he said, adding that the previous government had spent lavishly on non-development projects. He said he would made public the balance sheet that he got on March 31 when he assumed the charge of his office.

Recognise my paki expertise. The PML-N was hoping that the reinstated judges will see to the end of mushy and his trial for sedition, and that is all that Nawaz is interested in. He is no lover of the supreme court as the silly pakis believed. If that is not going to happen, he will quitt the govt, and it will be PPP and PML-Q the second largest party.

Pakistanis on chowk, pay respect to my better understanding of the paki mind set.
Long live mushy


KARACHI: Lawyers fear backtracking on judges’ reinstatement



By Our Staff Reporter


KARACHI, April 3: The legal fraternity on Thursday expressed concern over the emerging political scenario and said that the President’s House and some political elements were hatching conspiracies to sabotage the lawyers’ ongoing struggle for the restoration of the pre-PCO judiciary.

Speaking at the general body meeting of the Karachi Bar Association held in the Shuhada-i-Punjab Hall of the City Courts, the lawyers urged the new government to fulfil its pledge made in the Murree Declaration to restore the judiciary to its Nov-2 position.

KBA Secretary-General Naeem Qureshi was of the view that the new political developments have clearly indicated that the pro-Musharraf political parities, including the PML-Q, would be included in the new government and the PML-N, which has a clear stance over the reinstatement of deposed judges, could be sidelined.

Zeemax,

febonocci series is, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13 etc is found to be foloowed in nature from the branching of trees, bacterial reproduction.

This is being followed in the indian subcontinent.

India (1), india pakistan (2), india, pakistan, bangladesh (3), next will be five, india, pakistan, bangladesh, sindh, NWFP. Punjab will be renamed pakistan. A new constitution, as it happened in 1973 can formalise the partition.

At last pakistan govt has announced a multifaced approach to terrorism. So far it was only two faced, talking about islam being a religion of peace while supporting the jihadis. Now it is going to be multifaced, there will also be occasional helicopter gunship attack on the jihadis. There will also be negotiations with them.

A truley islamic approach to terror, multi faced , like the pakis on chowk.

from dawn of today

Govt to follow multi-faced strategy in terror war: FM



By Our Correspondent


LARKANA, April 3: Pakistan will formulate a multi-pronged strategy for the war on terror and the coalition government’s emphasis would be to try to win the people of tribal areas by holding talks with them to resolve all issues.

However, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said the government would also use military force if it felt it was necessary.

..... this is not nice - no wonder we don't see any women on this forum .... you guys are worse than mirzaees !

Looks like tampax naraz ho gaya. LOL! Abay, dhaaga seedha kar..

atif2

"finance gurus" like CreateAlpha

I suppose you mean CreateUllukapatha?

#576 Posted by atif2,

LoL!

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Zeemax #535, as someone who has taken it upon himself to teach hindoos the basics of math, I hereby certify that you have not only validated the mathematic theory behind the Fibonacci numbers, but your percentages also added up to a full 100% - something the self-styled "finance gurus" like CreateAlpha have had a tough time achieving

Great job!!!

#569 Posted by hamidm2,

I think cockroach is the only species which doesn't serve ANY useful purpose ... even rats have a purpose but not cockroaches ... and one more thing, they're found everywhere.

Now do you see what I mean?

#571 Posted by hamidm2,

But he did ... kargill ... no one thinks he's a hero because of that ...

Re: # 570

Yup.

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Re: # 570

zeemax,

..... do you realize that if musharraf had started a war with india he would have uited the nation and remained president for life ...

#566 Posted by rf786,

That's what Fibonacci proved, isn't it?

Re: # 567

zeemax,

.... regardless of our differences, i really do appreciate your efforts at keeping our pesky neighbors in line ..... however, i don't think you should exteminate arjun because he does serve a useful purpose in keeping romair away from this forum ..

..... thank you for your valiant fight against the heckling hyenas who have the longest raliroad track in the world .......

Re: # 561

tahmed32

{can you deny that what inspired people in 2007 was not any ideas coming out of "islamic culture" (which has nothing to offer other than sharia) but ideas rooted in western civilization?}

Ahmed sahib, give this judicial farce a break please. The CJ has soiled that honorable position many a time, yet you persist with your revolutionary diatribe. Sirjee, I can understand the basic concept that drives such ideas but lets be fair and rationale about this drama. Has Chaudhry Iftikhar not compromised the integrity of the Chief Justice by politicizing the issue and then presenting his credentials to Mr. Zardari who is defending himself in his esteemed court?

Dear Sir, what if this movement dies, what next? Can the judiciary remain independent post Chaudhry meglo-mania? Think a little for the country and its masses, we need a independent judiciary that people can trust or at least have the perception of justice. By the way, this writer does not condone what Mush did, he too needs to go, the sooner the better.

#563 Posted by Salim_Chauhan,

It's not easy training monkeys and cockroaches but I'm doing my best with the Pavlovian treatment.

Re: # 535

Technically superb description, brilliant.

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#535 Zeemax,

Zee,
LOL - looks like you have been paying attention to Atif's training of Injuns in percentages on UP - that effort was completely 37% successful. Good job!

Re: # 558; hamidm Sahib,

I am reliably informed that members of the mammalian species Bubalis Bubalis are not partial to the melodies of wind instruments.


Cheers

hamidm: no doubt ancient rome provided a sound foundation for western democracy by replacing a kingship by a republic (or sorts) with roman senate electing a ruler, and through jurisprudence. And I will grant you that all this was revived (after being lost for a thousand years after around 500 AD following the fall of the roman empire to barbarians) in europe. so i will concede this point.

and no doubt islamic history has been one of kingships with religion used as a convenient tool to give legitimacy to the khalifa.

Having granted you all this - can you deny that what inspired people in 2007 was not any ideas coming out of "islamic culture" (which has nothing to offer other than sharia) but ideas rooted in western civilization? You may disagree with me on the support the Quran itself provides to these concepts of equality and that is your right.

But you cannot deny that it is concepts rooted in western civilization (habeas corpus, right to vote) that inspired people in Pakistan in 2007. So who are you to deny this to the "unwashed masses"??? You and your chacha rashid may be clueless about these concepts, but the "unwashed masses" of Pakistan are not!!

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#558 Posted by hamidm2,

I agree with you going by that the Romans had great kaneezes ... much better than Muslims ever did! That guy Caligula was a real hoot!

Re: # 554

tahmed,

.... so how far do you want to go back - how about going all the way back to the roman empire ...... as bad as some of their emperors might have been they did have the concept of 'first among equals' and thier senate functioned better 2000 years ago than our three ring circus ......now compare this to the example set by abu bakr, king saud, saddam, hafiz asad, hosni and your friend musharraf ......... we have a long way to go and right now it seems we haven't even taken the first step ......

..... look mian ji, it is silly to make thes comparision with italy and france and israel - these people have been civilized for a long time whereas our people are still no better than their smelly sheep ......

...... based on the chaotic events of the last couple of days things don't look too good ....... but i am an optimist and still looking forward to making it with cindy crawford .....

Re: # 556

bubba,

... they are family - sheikh rashid is kashmiri as is nawaz sharif ....like somone said, it is in our blood ...... but don't worry, we are in no position to do anhything about it yet - let your future generations worry about it .....

Re: # 498 Posted by hamidm2 on April 3, 2008 5:13:45 pm

Hamid mian,

[.. we have a moral obligation to support them..}

What moral obligation are you talkimg about? And why?

#553 actually hamidms feuding uncles would fit right in with the sicilian mob. :-)

hamidm: italians didnt have much of a democracy either until after wwii.
if you look at history, the picture is quite clear - in france it took two major revolutions (1790's and the slightly less violent one of 1848, the latter as tragic as pakistan 2007 may well turn out to be if the cj is not restored) that semed like failures at the time, but in fact paved the way for full democracy. in the soviet union - it took a number of tragic attempts - hungary 1956, the "velvet revolution" in czechoslavakia in 1989 plus the polish revolution - which seemed like failures but which paved the way for the soviet empire to come apart and for these nations to have a revolution.

So, nothing can undo the great step towards democracy that the pakistani people have made. even if the revolution is betrayed - nothing can stop the momentum of what the Chief Justice started when he stood up to the bully in uniform in March 2007.

#552 Posted by hamidm2,

but pakistan is no italy and pakistanis are not italians

Oh ... so the same fascists who were siding with the nazis and killing your jew ancestors till yesterday suddenly became civilized today and adopted democracy?

Re: # 546

zeemax,

.... aap kay mun mein ghee shakar, but pakistan is no italy and pakistanis are not italians - we are muslims without any tradition of democracy .... the italians might have invented the word 'nepotism' but the abominable four perfected this art which still serves as a source of inspiration for our politicians and people .......

...... anyway, let's hope for the best ....... mqm showered another ton of flowers on zab's mazar in naudero today ...... i wonder if nawaz sharif is going to pay his respects too, or will he just go to data sahib instead ......

...... anyway, let

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#532 Posted by zeemax on April 3, 2008 10:02:18 pm

the impotent rage is really getting out of hand...

don't take it out on the people who ride your cabs...even if they don't tip you well or say something about the smell in your cab....you'll lose your medallion...

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hamidm2 uncle, although I know you don't think too highly of Hindoos, I do think you are the closest to truth. In all the hype and hoopla, people seem to have forgotten that Pakistan has been through all this before. What exactly are our friends blushing like virgins for?

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hp mian,

so now like the poor mirasi at the wedding we are willing to accept 'new elections in six months' ?????

.... okay, fine ..... what will change ? .... how will the balance of seats in the national and provincial assembly change ? ..... and how do we know the change will not make things even worse, resulting in the anarchy that the islamofascists are hoping for ? .... i can come up with a dozen equally likely scenarios that can result in disaster, but i won't because it is just too scary ........

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Re: # 539

treetop saab, i am available saab. may be you can put in a word for me saab?

Re: # 538
Probably this new couple will need a peon.

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There is a real drama of succession, that is succession of pakistan. The 1973 constitution did away with what was the west pakistan till then. It renamed itself as pakistan.

Now the question is about the next constitution, will it rename Punjab as pakistan or not.

There is an opportunity for the pakistanis to revise teh constitution to give autonomy to the provines, but the history of creation of bangladesh shows that it is not likely to happen. Pakistan should be broken up into three, that is what fibonocci series says.

India, then it bacame two, pakistan and india, now it is three, pakistan, india and bangladesh. Next is five. India, bangladesh, and please choose the names of the other three created by the break up of todays pakistan.

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#516 Posted by ijaz_gul

PPPP+MQM+JUI+independants+PMLQ.

That would be quite a joke if Zardari was indeed working in that direction. Besides, even all of them together could not form Govt in Punjab, (which in fact is all PML-N wants for the time being), split PPP in Punjab which hates MQM after May 12, and damage it further in Sind after the Amin Fahim episode.

However, most analysis does not point towards this possibility, and as Friday Times says in its last editorial, Zardari is cognizant of the 'capacity of MQM to create instability in Sind".

Surely, the sleuths who were providers must have gathered plenty of evidence and 8 years is a long time.

You can bet if any of the footage they surely have is released, it will put desibaba.com (does it still exist?) to shame.

Zardari said something very interesting at Nine Zero. "I am following the will of my Shaheed Leader". Perhaps, this was the agenda of BB too.

I doubt if it was ZAB's agenda, who was an uncompromising politician, but it certainly was Benazir's agenda who had no qualms in laying down supine in every possible position for any whiff of power or personal survival.

There were strong indicators that he was hobnobbing with Mush. Swap of Durrani with Haqqani came only after US clearance.

Also the appointments of Salman Faruqi, Najmuddin Sheikh etc raise a lot of questions. However Zardari's main partner-in-crime (aside from Salman Faruqi) i.e. Shahid Hassan Khan of the IPPs fame is still missing. If he surfaces too, your thesis will be confirmed.

Re: # 529
I have written "if" to indicate a contigency...
I am not saying that PML (N) will move out...but merely indicating that PPP will not face problems of survival if they do
Regarding Mr Musharraf...well NRO had been put into implementation even before the picture became clear...
It is obvious that Mr Musharraf is doing his part of the deal....
Regarding 3rd November steps....well frankly it is a legal debate whether you need 2/3rd majority to give them a constituional cover or not...there are enough sellouts who are claiming that it takes a 2/3rd majority to roll those steps back.....
Wesay is there any law in the Pakistan in the first place...
Did 3rd November itself orginated out of some provision in the constitution....

#526 Posted by Skeptical
"If PML (N) moves out of coalition...
PPP will survive....
And will perform their part of the deal with out any problems...."

What people forget that constitution amendments that Mush brought in after Nov 3, have to go thru the assembly too. The NRO too is dependent on the approval from the assembly and perhaps will have to be part of any constitutional package. At this time I don't see anything that suggest any breakup of the NS, AZ alliance.

Once all constitutional amendments are approved, and Mush has been removed, I just don't see any reason why this alliance should remain. So in six months we should see new elections.

I think after they have completed their agenda, NS and AZ will have to call for new elections. The last option is that the army refuses to go along with both Political parties and forces them out. That would take enormous amount of effort from the army and I doubt that army would do that now.

#516 Posted by ijaz_gul

The CJ's reinstatement has a symbolic value and perhaps would play well in public but the reality is that reforming the judicial system is even more important. If the PPP has some proposals that would help the judicial system, then all need to wait for that. There are still plenty of days for thirty days limit to pass. We need to realize that worthwhile judicial reforms ace the CJ's reinstatement any time.

If Chowdry bows out in exchange for comprehensive reforms in the Judicial system, then he should be ready to do that and the lawyers should also accept that!

He has done his part and he will remain a threat to all politicians. His ego and his No should be tamed for a substantially changed system for future!

#516 Posted by ijaz_gul

There are two sides of this story. The first is what you are saying but the second and the correct one is that PPP and NS need 2/3 majority to get approval of the constitution amendments. AZ and NS still need votes in the Senate and they need support from MQM. In fact, they can’t remove the President w/o the 2/3 support in the both houses. With that in mind, I would suggest people need to slow down and wait for all cards to be played out. The conspiracy theories that are flying everywhere are really not worth the time to speculate about. AZ can’t do anything w/o NS consent and no constitutional amendment can pass the assembly w/o NS. So, I don’t see any issues there.

Though I haven’t spoken to anyone in Pakistan yet, but I read pretty much all Sindhi papers and AZ’s 90 visit appears to have lots of resentment in Sindh.

Let me remind you one thing here. The original agreement that Benazir agreed with Mush was really to have PPP-MQM and Q league, if needed. That did not work out as the situation changed. Once Benazir saw the situation on the ground, she insisted that NS take part in elections knowing full well that if NS is not in the assembly, she would just end up being a puppet PM. Perhaps that was one reason she had to be eliminated. The second time around, Zardari insisted that NS take part in elections after he had announced to boycott them a day after Benazir was murdered.

The tradition in the PPP is that workers usually don’t go against the party leadership in public but inside, strong debates take place and I am sure, Zardari must have heard from many of his workers and Sindhi PPP leaders already about the MQM.

If anyone thinks that removing Mush would be easy or bringing the CJ back would be piece of cake then they live in fools’ paradise. 90% of the PPP MNAs and 70% of the PMLN MNAs are approachable by the army and its agencies. So there is no need to underestimate the situation in Pakistan. Both NS and AZ know that they can’t move w/o getting the okay from the army or at least the army would look the other way when they move against Mush.

There are lots of variable and I think Punjabis are showing their usual haste and Jadli karo na bhai habit again and they would probably end up destroying the whole game and would put politicians in confrontation before they are ready.

I was disappointed to hear Aitazaz Ahsan talking about the constitutional amended sponsored by the President House. This is just plain ridiculous. Any constitutional amendment would require 2/3 and no one has 2/3 w/o NS’s support.

#524 Posted by ijaz_gul
"Even then I had commented that this Zardari may have his hands soiled. Now I have no doubts."

Chill out! This is emotional, childish and not worthy of repeating in public.

Its a good article and rightly it has been pointed out that at present he is the punching bAG...
I do have doubts that he has any intentions to leave or will actually be forced to leave....
The way things are shaping up does not indicate that things are moving towards his dismissal or impeachment....
NRO was borought in with the condition that PPP would support Musharraf....
Now cases against Mr Zardari have been withdrawn....
Mr Musharrraf has done his part of the deal...and with 58 2 (b) and still friendly army behind him, PPP will do its part....
Its funny the way MQM had a "hiostoric" truce and Q league gave vote of confidence....
The reliance of PPP on PML (N) has more or less been eliminated...
If PML (N) moves out of coalition...
PPP will survive....
And will perform their part of the deal with out any problems....
The punching bag will continue to stay there.....though gradually the focus would be more and more on apprently vibrant Parliament
And some "progressive" psuedo intellectuals who also have been supporting Mr Musharraf and think that his opposition is just "reactionary" will be happy......

Re: # 518

Hamidm sahib:

".. i am beginning to empathize with the poor mirasi .."

Cindy Crawford notwithstanding, it is better option to stay with the known mirasi. He is in the neighborhood, and it might be possible to use him for Kashmir adventure, when Cindy Crawford dream is over. Make him part of democracy.

When Benazir was murdured I had no doubt who had done it. I was the fist to put her pic clips out and a few days later, the whole world saw the movie through channel 4. Those pics at chowk were from right there. There is too mach of hard and collborative evidence to suggest that she was eliminated and circumstantial evidence points in a certain direction. Even then I had commented that this Zardari may have his hands soiled. Now I have no doubts.

prophetboy: you've been just as wrong as capt clueless...

at least he's unintentionally funny ....you're just self-righteous...

#519 very well put, arjun. i am seriously thinking of transferring you to the bonabo (the most intelligent among the chimps!!) section. Give yourself another pat on the back from prophetboy!!

#517 Posted by tahmed32 on April 3, 2008 6:16:12 pm


global warming is going to create huge problems


prophetboy....all you have to do is remove musharraf and that problem will be solved too...

after all, according to you, the jihadi problem is also completely musharraf's fault...he created the taliban in his basement..he created the jihadis used in kashmir in his basement...even the jihadi chanda boxes were in his basement...

ijaz: i am honestly no longer too worried. true it would be a nice movie ending to see mush in the dock and the cj in the supreme court - but politics is the art of the possible. so i am still giving zardari the benefit of the doubt.

#515 Posted by tahmed32 on April 3, 2008 6:12:05 pm

aww...prophetboys delusions are shattered by reality...

prophetboy is pissed...

relax...take the day off..don't go do the paki thing and blow up the red line or something..

Re: # 516

ijaz gul,

.... i might be a skeptic, but i am a firm believer in the fact that there are certain basic personality traits just cannot be changed ..... a leopard can onlycover up his spots temporarily ......

...... zardari was a crook and will remain a crook - i just hope he is a competent crook .... nawaz sharif is a vindictive man with despotic tendencies - i just hope saner people aroud him will prevail ......

...... i am beginning to empathize with the poor mirasi

#514 hamidm: pakistan politics are actually not in too bad a shape now. what bothers me is more serious problems that i hope we can address somehow - global warming is going to create huge problems at around the same time population hits 300 million. and pollution is going to get much worse. the pindi you and i grew up in is already history. replaced by traffic jams, asphalt and crap buildings where there used to be green hedges.

tahmed, hamid, Zeemax and HP

Eversince Zardari took over I was suspicious. I Repeatedly commented on chowk, that thre is something suspicious about him, he is playing his cards one by one and perhpas he may have the last laugh too. Things are clearing up and soon the PPPP+MQM+JUI+independants+PMLQ could form a coalition. In fact, many of the Q chaps have already sitched sides albeit virtually.

Zardari has too many skeletons in his cupboard and he is putting more into them. During his captivity he had access to best of things including women. Surely, the sluets who were providers must have gathered plenty of evidence and 8 years is a long time.

Zardari said something very interesting at Nine Zero. "I am following the will of my Shaheed Leader". Perhaps, this was the agenda of BB too.

There were strong indicators that he was hobnobbing with Mush. Swap of Durrani with Haqqani came only after US clearance.

arjun: i have noted your tireless efforts past several hours to keep chowk up-to-date with news from Pakistan. i wish all off-shore code coolies were as diligent as you are. give yourself a pat on the back from prophetboy.

Re: # 513

tahmed,

...... don't get upset at the truth ........ if it is any consolation, sometimes i feel like the guy in #508 too ...

hamidm: no need to start talking like shit just because you dont like what i keep telling you.

Re: # 502

Hamidm sahib:

"...do you know what i hate most?

... just when i am about to take off cindy crawford's bra, the alarm goes off ..."

And that too in your dreams, Hamidm sahib, please stay with Mrs. Hamidm.

#498 Posted by hamidm2 on April 3, 2008 5:13:45 pm


isi should be focusing on supporting indigeneous kashmiri freedom fighters instead of recruiting homiciders and suiciders in gowalmandi, lahore


no no...Indians WANT you to recruit allah's warriors from the land of allah's chosen muslims...

may is a slow month...no new shows on TV...no NFL..another lal masjid , brought about by allah's' homies indictrinated for jihad, would be very entertaining...

Re: # 509

tahmed,

.... you sound like the guy in #508 !

hamidm #507 it was never about personalities, like i keep trying to tell you. the system has been changed - power has shifted from one man to the parliament. the nation and its politicians have been educated on the significance of things like habeas corpus and basic rights and the rule of law. not bad for one year.

sure we would all like to have seen a good movie ending with the bad guys on the docks, but that is not important when the nation's future is on the line.

........ this reminds me of the mirasi who went to a wedding .....after many hours had passed and the food was sitll not served, the mirasi took off his dhoti and bent over ...... when people asked him what the heck he was doing, he said, "palay logo meri bund maro - under kuj tay jai !"

Re: # 506


tahmed,

... so now you are finally resigned to the fact that the cj might not be restored and musharraf will linger on ????? ....... i have been trying to tell you that for the last couple of weeks , but you were so caught up in your 'awam has spoken' bullshit ! ....... you actually believed in it and i wanted to believe in it ! ... shame on me !

.......now, god forbid, what will you do if musharraf is still president four years from now and ppp/mqm/amp/jui/pml-q form the government in the center and there is blood in the streets of lahore instead of karachi ?

hamidm: what hopes? i think we are doing fine. they may not restore the cj, but so what? he has already played his finest innings anyway. and mush lingers on - like a useful idiot to the men he put in prison just a few years ago. life is good!! stop wetting your pants.

Re: # 503

tahmed,

.... i hate you for raising false hopes and making me wet my pants too ..... now we both stink ! ... first it was romair, who many many years ago made me believe that musharaf was the messiah, and now you ...... whenwill i learn that a paki is a paki .....

hamidm #502 and should you be talking about such matters on the internet?

#501 hamidm: why are you mad at me? something i said?

do you know what i hate most?

... just when i am about to take off cindy crawford's bra, the alarm goes off

tahmed,

.... i know you wear depends, but this could apply to you if you didn't :


sometimes when you piss in your pants, you get his nice warm feeling but later in the day you begin to stink

Asif ticks off Aitzaz

NAUDERO: PPP Co-chairman Asif Zardari is reported to have ticked off Aitzaz Ahsan in an after-dinner gathering of the PPP’s Central Executive Committee (CEC) members in Naudero on the subject of the restoration of the judges..... According to sources present on the occasion, Zardari took Aitzaz to task for constantly threatening to launch a long march to force parliament to restore Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry and the other deposed judges. Zardari advised Aitzaz to go ahead with his long march if he was so keen on it instead of constantly threatening the PPP about it.


............ chuckle! chuckle!

bring out the violins

LAHORE: Asif Ali Zardari, the co-chairman of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), has offered the position of Balochistan governor to Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the sacked chief justice of Pakistan, Aaj television channel reported on Thursday. The channel said Zardari made the offer through Iftikhar’s counsels Aitzaz Ahsan, Athar Minallah, and Munir A Malik. daily times monitor

Re: # 493

bj,

... the moon god's crazy warriors cannot do this job - it has to be done by the regular army ... that's why i am anxious for them to return to the barracks ....... these jihadis are mere gun fodder and probably do more harm than good ..... isi should be focusing on supporting indigeneous kashmiri freedom fighters instead of recruiting homiciders and suiciders in gowalmandi, lahore ..... if the kashmiris don't want to fight this war themselves, pakistan should let them eat vegetables and dal ..... we have a moral obligation to support them but if they won't stand up and show some spine, they are not my mamon's sons ! ... to hell with them .......

.......... in any case we have much bigger fish to fry at this time than kashmir ...... we will get to it when sheikh rashid is appointed as the head of the kashmir committee .......

#495 er...that actually was my annual post to you. on chowk we have so many geniuses, and so little time. Wish you a happy 2009 in advance. :-)

#488 Eklavya

[ajay, I don't know how one can do justice to, or even engage in any constructive dialogue with, others begining with the view that everyone else is a bonehead, or evil, or wrong, just because they don't see the world your way...]

See, it's no point sermonizing to me in generalities that are not based on facts. I could say the same thing back to you, and it would not amount to much either.

I understand your predicament. I have a solution for you. Try not to "do justice to, or even engage in any constructive dialogue with, others begining with the view that everyone else is a bonehead, or evil, or wrong, just because they don't see the world your way". Avoid such people. Don't respond to their posts.

I know I avoid such people like the plague.

Try doing that. But if people are stating FACTS, or are ATTEMPTING to produce some kind of flawed(no doubt) logic, then point out their logical errors from your vantage point of unerring logic.

I have noticed that you conveniently avoid direct questions when you are caught in obvious untruths(I'm being polite here). Like when you were making up stories about "low-caste" people "preparing themselves" and being denied being "appointed" a "Shankaracharya".

I have always disliked people who pretend to be something they are not.

#482 tahmed32

[#481 ajeya: "Why are Paki Muslims boneheaded? Because they believe in "democracy" in an Islamic country."

Oh no. I must be smart and realize that we are doomed to have a dictatorship in Pakistan. Hindus like you are so clever!! ]

Being Paki, you completely missed the point. You can have any form of government, but you cannot call it "democratic" as long as it is Islamic.

You are discriminating against people of other religions who DO NOT WANT their country to be called "Islamic".

Let's see if you understand THIS time.

#491 Posted by bjkumar on April 3, 2008 3:23:14 pm

what's happening is that contrary to prophetboy's delusions, this is just a new leash on an old dog...

Hamidm2 miaN,

I think your number one wish in that list of one hundred wishes just received a setback!

'Top' Kashmir militant arrested
Police in Indian-administered Kashmir say they have arrested a top leader of a leading militant group.

Junaid-ul-Islam is the third in the hierarchy of the Hizbul Mujahideen and was its spokesman for 15 years, the police say.

They say the arrest is a major setback to the militant group.

In a separate development, a local court has issued arrest warrants for five army officers accused of killing a civilian after his arrest in Srinagar.

Still fighting

The Hizbul Mujahideen group is one of the main groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir which is claimed by both India and Pakistan.

Police said Junaid-ul-Islam is a post-graduate in Arabic literature who joined the ranks of militants 19 years ago.

He spent two-and-a-half years in Afghanistan, they said.

A number of militant commanders have been killed in the last three months and authorities say militancy is on the decline in Kashmir amid India-Pakistan peace moves.

Militants are still fighting to end India's rule in the portion of Kashmir it controls.

Meanwhile, Judge Hasnain Masoodi has issued non-bailable warrants against five army men, including three officers and two soldiers, who are accused of killing a civilian in a "staged" gun-battle.

Police say the body of the civilian was found buried in a northern district.

Human rights activists recently said they had identified 1,000 unmarked graves in more remote areas which may contain the bodies of civilians who have disappeared after being detained by the security forces.

The authorities, however, say all reported disappearances have been properly investigated and that there is no need to examine the burial sites.

Four police officers, including a senior superintendent, have already been charged in connection with the case and have been in jail for a year.

'Staged' gun battle

In a similar but separate case, India's main investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation, has begun prosecuting a brigadier and another four officers of the Indian army for allegedly killing five civilians in a "staged" gun-battle in Pathribal village of south Kashmir.

The BBC's Altaf Hussain in Srinagar says that these victims were also dubbed as foreign militants.

Our correspondent says that the army has opposed the trial of the officers, because they say police have not obtained prior permission from the Indian government.

The police say such a permission is not required because the accused officers did not kill the civilians in the course of their duty.

Re: # 487 Arjun

It is clear what is happening.

The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.

If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!

Re: # 487 Arjun

It is clear what is happening.

The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.

If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!

Re: # 489

Eklavya, this may have been forgotten by others. However a long time ago, hamidm2 miaN admitted that he sports a beard too!

It is not known whether that act is voluntary or in response to domestic ultimatum(s).

cheema ji

Are you too suggesting the malicious canard I have repeated a few times earlier - that there is a more than fair chance at least some of hamidm's grand children or great grandchildren will take to growing proper beards and "living in the caves" he so passionately derides? :) :)

I agree, and the best part is, there is nothing hamdim can do about it.

ajay, I don't know how one can do justice to, or even engage in any constructive dialogue with, others begining with the view that everyone else is a bonehead, or evil, or wrong, just because they don't see the world your way...

droopy eyed judge is being kicked upstairs...

Zardari offers governorship to Iftikhar Chaudhry

LAHORE: Asif Ali Zardari, the co-chairman of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), has offered the position of Balochistan governor to Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the sacked chief justice of Pakistan, Aaj television channel reported on Thursday. The channel said Zardari made the offer through Iftikhar’s counsels Aitzaz Ahsan, Athar Minallah, and Munir A Malik. daily times monitor

Poverty increases by 40pc in 8 years

SHAHBAZ RANA
ISLAMABAD- Number of the poor in the country has increased to 73.6 per cent of the total population from 33.6 per cent during the last eight years on the basis of two dollars per day purchasing power.
Federal Finance Minister, Ishaq Dar, said Thursday that eight years ago there were only 33.6 per cent poor in the county on basis of two dollars purchasing power that have alarming increased to 73.6 per cent.
He negated the last regime’s claim of ten percentage decline in the poverty on basis of dollar a day purchasing power, saying that in the present time the dollar a day formula has become obsolete due to price-hike spiral.” With a dollar, poor cannot fetch all essential commodities”.
The Finance Minister was speaking at the inaugural meeting of the Joint Management Committee of Pakistan and Italy. The Italian Ambassador to Pakistan was also present on the occasion.

ise kehte hai gaand me dum nahi, hum kisi se kum nahi..

Forex reserves erode by $3.1b in 5 months

JAVED MAHMOOD
KARACHI - The foreign exchange reserves of Pakistan have seen a record erosion of 3.10 billion dollars in just five months of the current financial year, reflecting the gravity of deterioration in the key fundamentals of the national economy of the country.
State Bank of Pakistan has reported 13.27 billion dollars worth total foreign exchange reserves by March 29, 2008, which indicate a huge plunge of 3.10 billion dollars when matched with the record high 16.37 billion dollars reserves on November 2, 2007, The Nation learnt on Thursday.
At present the foreign exchange reserves with the central bank stood at 11.099 billion dollars (by March 29, 2008) from 14.166 billion dollars on November 2, 2008, indicating a decline of 3.067 billion dollars during the period under review.
Meanwhile, the reserves with the domestic banks slightly dropped to 2.175 billion dollars by March 29, 2008, from 2.206 billion dollars on November 2, 2007.
Financial sector analysts said that the current account deficit, triggered by the trade deficit, has accelerated the outflow of the foreign exchange greater than the inflow of the foreign currency in the shape of remittances, foreign investment and external economic assistance/loans, etc.

I do not want to be the voice of the "tooti" in this "Nigar-khana", but want to address a point raised by mohar11 re. communal and secular.

The question is whether the concept of secularism relates only to the state or whether it can be related to individuals as well? If the concept does apply to an individual, what does it mean? Does it meant that a person is secular if he thinks that the state should be religion-neutral or does it mean that a person should not discriminate people based on their religion? It was in the latter sense that I said that most Indians are not secular.
[Sorry hamidm, I am trying to clarify and not obfuscate].

BTW, in practice, even the Indian state is not secular. Instead of being free of any religious bias, its secularism means, in practice, to appease every kind of religious lobby. When Muslims raised hue and cry re. the Shah Bano case, Rajiv Gandhi changed the law to appease them; subsequently, when Hindus got angry, he took Ram as his mascot (literally, by taking the actor who played