Surviving Musharraf's Exit?

"It is high time that they move beyond Musharraf-bashing to reflect on the economic challenges at hand. A collapsing Musharraf, as long as he is around and visible, is doing a great service to politicians by providing media and the people with a punching bag. They should dread the day when he will be suddenly unavailable to absorb the public wrath; leaving them to deal with the difficult questions about their own agenda."

Thanks Moeed, the lone ( except Ferozk) pakistani voice supporting the essential indian voice on chowk.

As long as mushy is there nothing will be done, as they will be busy punching him. Once he leaves, the coalition will fall apart.

There have been a few policies, despite your comments, increasing teh wheat support price is one, but there is no money to pay for, thsi years collection will be only 5 million instead of planned 7 million because no money to pay for. Talking to the jihadis is another one, no plan or idea why this new talks will work when earlier peace deals have failed.

Mushy has pulled another kargill on the politicians, he could not control the jihadis, now the new peace deal will be with the politicians, and they will face the wrath of the US and go back on the deal.

This is classic loose loose situation for pakistan. Only jihadis win in this, and I wish them well, that is what jinnah would have liked, TNT is essentially the political operationalisation of the kafir concept. From the land of teh pure founded by jinnah, the pakistanis are about to take on in a more transparent manner the kafirs of teh world.

I do hope that if this demand is not met, the taliban would send in the suicide bombers to islamabad. There is something serious for the Gilani to negotiate.

from dawn of today


Local Taliban ask govt to sever ties with US



By Anwarullah Khan


KHAR, March 30: Local Taliban militants have asked the new government to end relations with the US and enforce Sharia in tribal areas and have warned tribal elders against meeting US officials.

The warning was issued at a public meeting held in Enayet Kalli near Khar on Sunday which was attended by thousands of tribesmen chanting anti-US slogans.

Addressing the meeting, local Taliban commander Maulvi Faqir Muhammad, Maulvi Sher Behadur and Dr Muhammad Ismail welcomed the coalition government’s move to repeal the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR).

“We hail Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani’s announcement to repeal the FCR,” Maulvi Faqir said, adding that the government should implement Sharia in the tribal region and sever diplomatic relations with United States.

Reality of pakistan. No comments

KARACHI: Govt help sought in Manora temple’s renovation



By Faiza Ilyas


KARACHI, March 30: Sitting on the edge of Manora beach, the temple dedicated to the god Varuna has endured the test of time. Its grandeur stands immaculate amid visible signs of vandalism, official neglect and utter disregard that have been shown to the religious place for over 60 years. Unfortunately, the situation today hasn’t changed much.

The temple was being used as a storeroom by a restaurant owner, who has allegedly occupied a portion of the temple, before members of the Pakistan Hindu Council (PHC) intervened and took up the issue with the cantonment board officials. During these decades of neglect, many idols have either been stolen or broken while a garbage dump lies in front of the mandir.

The question is not whether Pakistan will survive Musharraf's exit. Rather, it is whether Musharraf will manage to run away like shaukat aziz, or whether he will be brought to court to face his multiple crimes against the nation.


As for the rest of this article, in denying that the politicians have any new ideas, the writer obviously choses to ignore (or perhaps has been unable to understand) the sea-change in Pakistan politics that has already happened.

The mqm ghoondas and the pmlq lotas are the only politicians who continue to think that politics is about being clever and deceiptful.

Jay Thakeray: another piece of bad news for you - "that which does not destroy me, makes me stronger". Pakistan has survived Musharraf's attacks on its pillars of state. And it is emerging stronger as a result.

It seems there are many ill-wishers who keep hoping Parliament rule will collapse and army rule will come back, and ask the question 'Surviving Musharraf's Exit?' rather than asking 'How the Hell Pakistan Survived musharraf's Stay?'

This is a typical layman skeptic view, laced with kanJaRR type venom against the Pakistani common man, which are a dime a dozen - with little or no insight into what the problems are, who created them, or how these are to be fixed.

Could this then explain why politicians are without an original work sheet of their own?

Who said politicians are without a work sheet of their own? The parties are agreed that musharraf's entire economic policy regime needs to be reversed back to the pre-shaukat aziz era. The nominated FM Ishaq Dar,even announced that in so many words in a joint PPP/PML-N press conference a couple of days ago, will release an 'opening balance' within 10 days, and make major policy adjustments.

Their struggle against Musharraf was more in the nature of fixing last minute nails in his political coffins ...

True, and thankfully so.

... which they, by the way, did nicely by focusing on rising prices of wheat and oil, electricity failures and the doom and gloom of the war against terrorism.

... because all the above are solely of musharraf's making.

They probably never got much time or opportunity to reflect on what will they offer once he is finally gone?

Not true as in first para. They know they have to reverse musharraf's policy direction to the pre-musharraf one. No rocket science required for that.

And this lack of reflection may also apply to the sky-rocketing oil and wheat prices in international markets.

Firstly, the recent oil price shock has still not impacted headline inflation. The price rises during the past year were partly due to administrative blunders and partly the wrong policies of monetary expansion.

Secondly the international wheat prices have nothing to do with the price of wheat in Pakistan.

No political party made an issue of oil prices for obvious reasons but their criticism of inflation and wheat was justified since that is solely attributable to economic/administrative policy.

Re Oil, musharraf made a mess by increasing oil demand manifold in the country through trashing urban mass transit schemes in favour of private cars and motorcycles. The Lahore Subway project of Nawaz Govt and the Karachi Mass Transit Overhead Rail System of Benazir Govt were both scrapped by musharraf.

Nothing can be done about it immediately but the same projects will now be revived. In the meantime, favourable terms with Saudia such as hefty discounts plus a deferred payment facility (which Saudia has allowed many times) will be likely negotiated. musharraf's proliferation of private transport at the cost of Public Transport was nothing less than criminal knowing very well that oil price direction is only one-way which is up.

Re wheat, the shortage occurred solely due to allowing private export of fictitiously vast excess quantities at higher international prices than domestic. Pakistan is not only self-sufficient in wheat and has been for decades, but even meets Afghanistan's demand.

Even if it was an administrative error,it was unpardonable considering the crisis it created. The same thing happened in case of Sugar too in 2006, so it's difficult to believe it wasn't a scam. Shaukat Aziz should be extradited to answer how this happened.

Regards

tahmed, you're right. 99% of these people are the ghaddar MQM types.

Congrats to our democratic friends in pakistan, the people of pakistan, the lawyers and the media, who have all worked together to enable change..and, yes, also the politicians..truly a historic step forward..

Good luck ! This is really a great basant/holi gift to all of south asia.

Somehow this Peerzada never impresses me. Is he looking for a role as a talk show anchor, advisor or what?

The essay is full of contradictions and out of sync with reality.

Nawaz has laid out his hand and made everyone else's moves predictable. He gives political impetus to what the Civil Society wants. Lets see what Zardari, MQM and Fazal have up their sleeves? The three would have played their cards in the next 30 days or so and I hope they read the wind.

100 day agenda

..... since everyone is putting forward their demands, here is my list of things that i want the new government to get done in the first 100 days:

1. liberate kashmir
2. fire masadi and make sure he is not employed by any educational institution
3. add 2000 mw of electricity
4. clean up nalla leh
5. end prohibition
6. remove the blasphemy and hadood laws
7. stop cross-border footsie until kashmir is liberated
8. find osama
9. find imran khan
10. provide washing soap to the citizens of pakistan
11. pass a law that requires people in queue to stand at least 5 feet apart
12. prohibit men holding hands in public (unless they are gay)
13. fire masadi
14. stop the unnecessay slaughter of animals on religious holidays and circumcisions
15. appoint sheikh rashid as chairman of the kashmir committee
16. impose a tax on beards
17. prohibit men from shaving their pubic hair
20. provide universal health care and free education
21. find urstruly
22. send masadi into exile in saudi arabia
23. ban altaph bhai from making telephonic speeches
24. let altaph bhai come home
25. repatriate the stranded pakistanis in bangladesh
25. grant full citizenship rights to ahmedis
26. install a street light in front of my brother's house
27. find and sterlize the jamia hafsa women
28. ban roadside peeing and watwani
29. reduce the price of petrol to 10 rupees a liter
30. recover all the missing manhole covers

#9 Posted by ijaz_gul
Ijaz,
I was watching a show with Naveed Qamar and Javed Hasmi discussing the future course. While Hashmi was blunt about 58 2b and other subjects, Naved was looking for words to make his point. On that Hashmi said some thing very important and I hope you will appreciate that too.

Historically, people from the smaller provinces have difficulty in going all out against the army and the president in public forums such as TV because in the past, the army and Punjab have jumped on them for saying things against the army and most were dubbed as unpatriotic.

The PPP suffers from this “holding back” phenomenon too. Right now the PPP is basically from a smaller province and don’t feel that they should confront the army and be dubbed unpatriotic by the media in Punjab and by some Punjab politicians.

The winds have changed now in Punjab and the army is no more a taboo for Punjabi politicians still, for a Sindhi to come out strongly against the army rule could possibly have some problems in the Punjab media.

Hashmi showed that he understands that clearly and said that we (Punjabis) can take a strong stand against the army rule and we understand the hesitancy a Sindhi leader would have in articulating the PPP stand.

NS and the PMLN are pushing an agenda that has been agreed to by both Parties. The sentiments against the army in Sindh are much stronger and the PPP believes that if it takes the lead against the army, there might be some repercussions and they are attempting to protect Sindh from the bum rap and the military action that is still a possibility if the army is regularly mauled in the media and by the politicians.

So what NS is doing is an agreed upon policy and PPP is supportive of his stand.

One more thing Asif Zardari still suffers from his inability to confront issues head on. His approach has always been to find a way out where there is none. I have heard stories that Benazir was often mad at him when she was the PM and Asif tried to pull some deals with the opposition and even with the Generals that Benazir was not willing to go for.

Good try, Hamidm. But Mush is still funnier than you -

Watch the Great Comedian..er..Commando.. administer the oath to office to a government that has vowed to put back the Chief Justice who will then slap the law on him. The government that has vowed to impeach him if it has the 2/3. ha! ha!

Watch Lota-in-a-Uniform..er..Hosni Mubarak..sulk in his room refusing to come out to administer the oath unless those taking the oath take off their black armbands..and then come out anyway when told "he had no choice". ha! ha!

Maybe you and mush should form a travelling team of comedians (if he manages to scoot before the CJ er..NABs..him. You could be the lota, he could be the "great washed..up". ha! ha!

Re: # 12

tahmed,

..... you senile old fool! ..... i raised the slogan of 'musharraf murdabad' long before you jumped on the tonga and i think he will be gone sooner than later ...... but what are you going to do with your life when you don't have musharraf to kick around ?

HP#11 I think that Zardari and NS in particular, and also AK, complement each other and thus provide Pakistan exactly the "management team" it needs at this time to go back from the brink of disaster that Musharraf had brought things to.

Zardari has set a tone of friendliness and humility towards all and without (at least open display) of anger at the way he was imprisoned for political purposes and the way he and Benazir were tarnished by musharraf's goons.

NS (supported by AWK) on the other hand has made sure that the people's mandate is not hijacked - the mandate key things being restoration of the judiciary and musharraf being removed from the position he has illegally occupied. People within PPP (including the PM-nominee for Sind whom I heard) are also making sure that Zardari sticks to the mandate.

The great credit that I give to Zardari is that he has set the right tone that Pakistan needed at this time - that is, in being humble and reaching out to all, he is brought the country together. And most important, he brings to the table the most important aspect - namely, the over-all goal of making Pakistan a peaceful and progressive place for future generations. Just repeating this aspect helps keeps things in perspective and the goals clear for all.

hamidm: what will i do with my life when i dont have mush to kick around? I'll be kicking his lota on chowk around. :-)

PS: and dont try to change facts. you were applauding hosni mubarak and berating the Pakistani awam while Pakistanis were struggling for survival.

Re: # 11

hp mian,

.... i think you are right about zardari ...... every time i see him on tv i get the feeling that he is a weasel who is trying to hedge his bets - that is why a lot of people think he might be working on plan b in case the foreplay with pml-n does not result in real sex ......... as for nawaz sharif, he comes across as an angry man who is so driven by hatred for musharraf (i don't blame him for that) that he just might cut off his nose to spite his face ...... he also needs to loose some weight so that he doesn't keel over before the elections next year ......

....... but, so far so good - there is still a long way to go and we cannot forget the fact that all these people are pakis and a paki by definition is just an indian with a bad attitude ........

#16 the "rising sun" applauds your brilliant insights..while working on escape plan..er..i meant Commando Action Plan!!

Re: # 15

tahmed,

.... i want you to pay arjun to go and count how many times i said 'hosni musharraf zindabad' and how many times i said ' musharraf murdabad' - i bet you it will be a wash ..... i will admit that i did say 'sheikh rashid zindabad' and i stick with that postion ..... he represents the awam that you profess to care about ........ as for the unwashed masses, they are nothing but sheep ..........

#18 Instead of denying facts (you must have applauded "Hosni Mubarak" etc. dozens of times during 2007), why dont you face up to reality - i.e. your entire value system (ridiculing the poor, applauding the corrupt and dishonest) stinks to high heaven. Start by saying "The hell with VIP culture" three times every day.

Hamid,

I think Main sahib's hatred against Mushy baba is justified and he should continue with that until the bugger is out and sent to the attock fort.

Tahmed, there is a limit to how far NS can go. But there is no limit for Zardari. He knows he will be in Garhi Khuda Bux maqbra after a phansi ka phunda or bullets at the back of his heads so he is careful now and would let NS reach his limit.

On Shaikh Rashid...

When I was in Pakistan I was talking to a Cable channel owner and he said you know why we always have shaikh Rashid live when putting something live costs us so much money?
I said, "To entertain me?"
He said, "correct, when the PPP or PMLn will have someone as entertaining and as knowledgeable, we will get him on the tv too".

He basically said that people like this comedian and until we find another comedian from these two parties will continue to put him on the shows.

I think Saad Rafiq from Punjab is about to replace him...

#20 HP: You could be right about Zardari not sticking his neck out too far. In a way it is good Zardari is there so things dont get too out of hand, and musharraf is removed and brought to trial in through a reasonable process within the framework of the 1973 Constitution. This way the energy built up in the nation can be channelled to constructive purposes.

#21 HP: Let politicians be politicians, and comedians can be comedians. Pakistan has no shortage of either and they do a great job on TV. Trouble comes when a politician starts acting like a comedian..

Re: # 21

hp mian,

.... nobody can replace sheikh rashid - saad rafiq is too 'polished' ...... if i know the rajas of pindi (who are about as intelligent as their jackasses), he will be back .... mark my words

...... as for zardari - i think he is hedging his bets because he is still not sure about the nro .... once the droopy eyed cj assures assures him that he won't open up that can of worms, zardari will take off his kid gloves and go after musharraf - everyone likes to beat up on a man who is down and almost out ... it is safe

..... as for musharraf, i don't think they should send him to attock or adiala - they should let him 'retire' like ayub khan as long as he stays away from politics ..... it will only prolong the bitterness and might piss off the army who could end up doing something stupid ....... but the man has an ego that is bigger than masadi's and might try to become the head of the q-league ..... that would be a mistake .... maybe they can send him to live with tahmed for a while ......

The current parliamentary set up has started giving me creeps. Every gamma, phuja, and lul-bashira is now in ruling coalition. Who and where the hell is the opposition. The laqoots of ML-Q are anything but and pervez elahi looks more like a shoe thief who hover around mosques during friday prayers, rather than an opposition leader. Is there anything straight in this banana republic?

Get rid of 58-2B and refer Musharaf to a court martial with in next two weeks, otherwise this un-natural house of cards is going to collpse in next 3 weeks.

[Those who are interested, the word "laqoot" is a hindko word for a bitch (kutti) with eczema (khurk)]

Hamid,
Why are you scared of army getting p-oed? Pissing them off should be the prime goal of the politicians. I think unless politicians and especially the ones from punjab don't confront the army, their Gaddi will never be mazboot and some other mush will attempt to take over.
Yeah army has guns let them pull them instead of waiting for the farce to be over.
Pakistan cannot survive w/o removing the army from the scene or at least from the political scene for good!

Let the fight begin!

Re: # 26

Exactly; and for politicians, their best strategy should be to force military courts to decide the fate of one of their own dictator. The military justice system badly needs this precedence.

I don't think army is in a position to get upset anymore. Currently they cannot step outside their cantonments in uniform. Thei wives are forced to send their school children in civilian cars. How long one can live in a green zone like this. As a matter of fact currently fouj is more pathetic than it was right after 1971 surrender. Back then at least no one was comming after their families.

#24 " everyone likes to beat up on a man who is down and almost out ... it is safe "

speak for yourself, since it is always safe to beat down on abdul. and dont turn 180 degrees and make the "rising sun" (responsible for the deaths of thousands of people - starting with kargill - in his search for personal glory, responsible for attacking the very foundations of a nation, responsible for defaming political enemies and putting them in jail for charges that include "overuse of phones" as the gillani was charged with for refusing to compromise his integrity!!) as a victim!!

urstrulyh #25 the only smelly character who has managed to sneak into the coalition is one of your mullahs - mullah fazloo. so you can relax - Pakistan is now strong enough to show the door to hell to your jehadi heroes.

Re: # 26

hp mian,

.... knee-jerk confrontation and violence can result in unintended consequences .... chile was able to get rid of pinochet without going after him immediately ...... he died with hundreds of charges pending against him but they gave him a military funeral (not a state funeral) to keep the army happy ........... and chile is the finest country in latin america .....

..... musharraf has been humiliated and if he wasn't so hard-headed he would have left a long time ago .... now he is a just a big distraction and it would be a total waste of energy to go after him ..... maybe we can just send tahmed to slap him a couple of times ..... that should be enough for both of them ...

HP #26 i think the fight is already over. the military is only too happy to start being seen as a national military - just like the cops guarding CJ were only too happy to throw aside the barricades 10 minutes after the PM had ordered in the NA.

Next stop: the defense budget is reviewed in parliament.

hamidm: knee-jerk? the new government is going by the book. and if it throws the book at mush in court - then that would be the only right thing to do. So the idea that one man can be above the law is finished once and for all in Pakistan.

Re: # 29

Oye mirzai

I send la'anat on this moulvi fuzla and his chmcha qazi hussain ahmad. If I were you, I would show some respect to jehadis who have made all this possible. Do you think the current crop of politicians gama, phujja, and lul-bashira had balls to stand up to this vicious dictator? Think again. Its the blood of people like Ghazi Abdul rashid Shaheed and school girls of Jamiah hafsa who gave new life to the phoenix that never was.

If Mushraff and his con-friends are not disgracefully kicked out of power within 90 days then the new government will be dealt the same way. They and their families will have hard time getting out in public. Even if the deposed judge choudhary accepts American terms of not demanding the missing persons whom Mushraff handed over to CIA in nuke connections still America has a great deal of investment in Mushraff. So it is likely that Pakistan will enter a new phase of uprising. Unless Pakistanis completely dismantle all British left colonial forces starting with Army first and education and monetary trap, the bureaucracy all these elections and big slogans are mere survival tactics that will hardly do any thing in the long run. My 1999 prediction still holds that Mushraff’s end will be worse than the combined ends of Bhutto and Zia unless Allah has some other plans for Lal Masjid Conqueror.

Hamid,
You are missing the point. Pinochet did not come in without the violence.

If they are not confronted now, the Pak army would come in with the Pinochet mindset.
I am not asking to kill mush. I think bringing him to justice is the right course. And if during the process it is proved that some army generals were his accomplice , they should be booked in the attock fort too.
It is the right thing to do or you allow the Pinochet type of army coup in Pakistan.

Re: # 29

tahmed,

..... mullahs like urstruly and zeemax don't like this election and the resulting coalition because they thrive on chaos ..... their only hope of getting into power is a total breakdown of the political process with eveyone going after everyone else ..... as zeemax is so fond of saying, "the end justifies the means"

"Its the blood of people like Ghazi Abdul rashid Shaheed and school girls of Jamiah hafsa who gave new life to the phoenix that never was."

That is pure baloney!

HP and Tahmed
There is a serious issue here.
PPP is not a small province party. It represents the federation and has seats in all provinces including FATA. Appeasement will get Zardari nowhere. In politics it never works. As days pass and this appeasement continues, PPP's popularity will plummet and at least in Public Perception, Zardari will be tainted. There are enough skeletons in his cupboard pertaining to his so called long years of captivity. I hope memories are not short lived to have forgotten the perks he enjoyed.

As I wrote on another board, this one is tricky.

Cheerios

"i think the fight is already over. the military is only too happy to start being seen as a national military -"

Tahmed, You are so wrong. We are still at the half way mark in Pakistan. There will be one last final confrontation with the army. Brace for the worst!

Hey Ali Ahmed kurd is on TV Geo News!

He is live from Quetta. Isn't this great!

#33 urstruly: spare me your mullah abuses ("mirzaee"). So you spoke against fazloo. so what? it was only because he chose to seek power by becoming a lota rather than by killing innocent people - like the kafir scum that you worship.

Re: # 34

Pir Sahib

Very well said. What people do not understand is that that there is never a short cut in the lives of nations. If the pro-Western, corrupt, ruling elite is thinking that they can get away with this facade of "democarcy" then they should think again. They are trying to patch a bursting pressure cooker with bandaid. This time it is not even going to delay the inevitablity. People still do not understand that the struggle between old order of east india company ki najaiz aulad and the forces of a new pakistan have entered into an existential phase. There is no going back.

Re: # 35

hp,

..... pinochet came in through violence but if i remember correctly his leaving was not violent .... as a matter of fact he 'stepped down' and resumed his post as chief of the army .....

.... in any case, i don't think the politicians will go after musharraf because they don't want to take on the army (yet) ...... it will all be part of the big 'deal' which includes the cj/nro issues ......

#39 HP: Let us at least hope I am right. :-) No doubt the various privileges would be hard to let go. And cutting any bureaucracy - let alone a vast 700,000 man army down to a size that matches the real defense needs of the nation - is no job for the timid or the overzealous.

But..the new government has already made far more headway than I had expected in this direction before meeting with resistance.

Re: # 10 Posted by hamidm2 on March 31, 2008 7:50:06 am

Hamid mian,

Here is what I would say to your 100 day agenda:

[1. liberate kashmir ]

This can not be done unless Arjun agrees with it.

[2. fire masadi and make sure he is not employed by any educational institution]

Agreed, can be easily done.

[3. add 2000 mw of electricity]

Can not be done, because Pakistani rupees does not go far enough.

[4. clean up nalla leh]

what the heck is that?

[5. end prohibition]

Agreed, can be done easily.

[6. remove the blasphemy and hadood laws]

Agreed, can be done easily.

[7. stop cross-border footsie until kashmir is liberated]

Can not be done, unless urstruly buys in to this (refer to item 1, above)

[8. find osama]

Can not be done. Only Obama can do it, maybe next year.

[9. find imran khan]

Is Jemima, included in this new government?


[10. provide washing soap to the citizens of pakistan]

idiotic demand, since there is no water.


[11. pass a law that requires people in queue to stand at least 5 feet apart]

Partially agreed, provided you do not demand for toilets to be included close to this line.


[12. prohibit men holding hands in public (unless they are gay)]

Can not be done. First Pakistani constitution has to define "what a man is?"

[13. fire masadi]

Again? Refer to response No. 2 above.

[14. stop the unnecessay slaughter of animals on religious holidays and circumcisions]

Can not be done. Pakistan has a powerful grass root organization of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals).

This is a non-starter.

[15. appoint sheikh rashid as chairman of the kashmir committee]

Can not be done. He has lost his political bearings for the moment.

[16. impose a tax on beards]

Good suggestion for Pakistani treasury. Also, this tax should include on foreigners travelling to Pakistan. They should be in USD, and in cash.


[17. prohibit men from shaving their pubic hair]

Unenforceable.


[20. provide universal health care and free education]

Can not be done, due to violation of intrinsic values. As you know most people in Pakistan, prefer life after death.


[21. find urstruly]

Agreed. Give this assignment to Zeemax. And once he finds urstruly, he may keep him.

[22. send masadi into exile in saudi arabia]

Agreed.


[23. ban altaph bhai from making telephonic speeches]

Agreed. The government would install disruption in his telephone line. For this to happen, MQM must not be part of any coalition.


[24. let altaph bhai come home]

Agreed, and let him face justice.


[25. repatriate the stranded pakistanis in bangladesh]

Can not be done. Karachi is already a mess. If only these people can be assigned to Rawalpindi or Peshawar.

[25. grant full citizenship rights to ahmedis]

I thought they were already citizens.

[26. install a street light in front of my brother's house]

Agreed, we will add solar energy as a caveat.

[27. find and sterlize the jamia hafsa women]

Can not be done, because it is a violation of UN human rights declaration that also applies to these women.

[28. ban roadside peeing and watwani]

what is watwani?

[29. reduce the price of petrol to 10 rupees a liter]

Agreed. Will have to include KSA is this demand. Those rascals might have their own demands.

[30. recover all the missing manhole covers]

Agreed. This will increase the burden on the treasury.

Musharraf isn't and has not been perfect. However, the easiest thing in the world is to blame everything on him.

Let's see how the new government deals with the jihadis, when all they want is to use Pakistan as a base. Let's see what the new government will do when the next madrassa takes foreign workers hostage, or attacks police stations?

Of course, we can criticize Mush, but not for the reasons used by jihadi sympathizers. Why did he wait six months to take care of the criminals inside the Lal Masjid? How come the Taliban got a free hand post 2004?

Tahmed, Hamid, I am watching Ali Ahmed Kurd he is live and they are censoring his speech by turning off the mike.
I will get back to your posts after this.

There is a posturing coincidence I mentioned on another board but it was missed.
The day Gilani was elected; some of the important appointments in the army were shuffled. This was a clear message to Mush to tone down. And that he would have no more unstinted military support.
Much of the army is also fed up of him, and what may cause a final showdown is the humiliation faced by the army because of Mush. I quote from my essay on Military mindset:

"As time passes, the new military chief will become more assertive. In due course the present intelligence chiefs will be posted out. Slowly chatter will flow into the ears of General Kayani. Fly by night reformers will try their best to gain access. Ideas will be proliferated and he will be urged. The mind set of 1935 will try to prevail once again. Knowing Kayani, he will do what he does best; listen and think".

My question is, Think What?

Re: # 37 HP

"balony?"

so you think Mushraff just peeled off his skin out of goodness of his heart? If my memory serves me right the current political parties could not muster a jaloos of few thousand against this dicattor; there was no wheel jam, no shutter-down, no gun-fight at mochi darwaza. The baRRi tind was dispatched back to SA in a next flight. benazir was assasinated; sindhi agitation has assuaged; musharaf had imposed 2nd martial law, media was under control. The only voice was that of lawyers. Do you think vicious usurpers like pak fouj give a shit about these little nuissences. What really has bitten their ass is the weekly suicide bombings targeting nothing but them. You don';t have to like jihadis but at least be honest to give the credit where it is due.

ijaz gul #38 Perhaps. But notice that Zardari is showing humility and non-vindictiveness now that he is in power - while Mush was arrogant in power, and is now all humility in defeat. That is the difference between a winner and a loser.

Indeed - it is this very "soft power" wielded by Zardari that has made him stronger.

What happened to Imran Khan? Like Zorro - he appeared when the nation needed him badly, and now that the forces of right have won, seems to have quietly ridden off in the sunset. doesnt even appear on TV interviews. No one talks of him.

#47 Look - just remember my words. in due course historians will realize that jehadis were in fact being promoted by musharraf (being the geese that laid his golden eggs - i.e. to stay in power and collect cash). ever wonder why he let the lal masjid mullahs become de facto parliament and police in islamabad, and took action only when they overstepped their limits (being stupid) and attacked chinese, thus bringing the chinese government down to pull his ears and demand punishment for the kidnappers of chinese women?

Re: # 16 Posted by hamidm2 on March 31, 2008 8:40:01 am

Hamid,

[a paki by definition is just an indian with a bad attitude]

hey wash your mouth. A paki is not a modern day indian, by any definition.

bubba: "modern day indian"? like thakeray? or Modi?

HP: I am multitasking. watching geo, wasting time on chowk, and pretending to work. :-)

Hamid,
Pinochet coup in Argentine was not the norm. it was a one time deal. Argentine before him was a democratic(or civilian rule) country for a long time. The army in Argentine stepped in to stop the un-mandated socialism that Allende tried to bring in.

Whereas in Pakistan, the army COAS believe that they own the country and are the true rulers. Some of them take over the country too and think that the country cannot survive w/o them.
So it is a necessary to bring down the army once for all. That is not going to be easy and we see another battle.

Sorry that was Chile not Argentine!

HP: there are 40,000 "missing people" in Chile due to pinochet. mush was well on his way to doing that if the CJ had not stopped him.

Tahmed,
I am not into multitasking. See how many mistakes I made in my post #56.

Re: # 52
A senior military officer operating in the tribal areas commented that USA had established a suicide bomber camp. Connect this with what the previous interior minister said live on TV; and there is food for thought.

tahmed writes "#47 Look - just remember my words. in due course historians will realize that jehadis were in fact being promoted by musharraf "

Once again this peon of the West will deliberately present half the picture. The complete sentence should have read: "#47 Look - just remember my words. in due course historians will realize that jehadis were in fact being promoted by musharraf ...just like musharraf was being promoted by the Americans who were encouraging him to add fuel to the Jihadi fire, and start one where none existed, for ulterior motive..

HP: By the way the Argentinian military might not be as vested in their political affairs as the Pakistani military by the overthorow of Allende was just as wrong as the overthrow of civilian governments in Pakistan by the military, the CIA according to its own acknowledgement had part in his overthrow- he was a well known socialist and the people elected him in 1970 knowing full well what he would do once in power so his socialism was not "undmandated"

g'night

iN #61 read "by the overthorow of Allende was just as wrong as the overthrow of civilian governments in Pakistan by the military"

as

"but the overthorow of Allende was just as wrong as the overthrow of civilian governments in Pakistan by the military.."

#59 HP: those are mere typos, my friend. On the military - so far, so good. Let's keep our fingers crossed. But the PMs policy statement with Kiyani next to him is very encouraging - i.e. Pakistan will have the smallest military budget consistent with an effective defence.

buzz off masadi.

tahmed writes "buzz off masadi."

Go to hell dimwit

#52
Tahmed32 Sahib,

It could very well be. But have you thouhgt of another, more sinister explaination: He fought extremists as much as he could, always kéeping in mind the bitter truth of how many sympathizers they have within the forces and security agencies? I am saying this while keeping in mind that 10 billion doesn't go far enough for a country of 170 mil.

Unlike many Indians who think that this 10 billion brought about Pakistan's 8% growth rates, I think this growth rate was due to economic activities by Pakistanis themselves.

#60 ijazgul: where did you read this?

HP: By the way the Argentinian military

should read in #61

HP: By the way the Chilean military


"undmandated" should read "unmandated"

I think its time for bed...


"Go to hell dimwit" will be read exactly right as "Go to hell tahmed"

g'night

Re: # 68
I did not read it. I heard it with my own ears.

Asadi,

Allende won only 36% of votes in a three way contest. Chile's assembly which was dominated by the moderates not socialist voted Allende to be the President after signing a pact that he will not make fundamental changes w/o the assembly consent.
He really had no mandate. The assembly could have asked for re-elections.

Allende was active in Chile for a long time and he contested several Presidential elections before the one held in 1970 w/o success.
Please re-read that history. Allende's socialism was not different than the Bhutto Socialism. Incidentally, he made roti kapra and makaan solgan(in chilean) popular before Bhutto.

Are you listening to Aitazaz, Tahemd? He is saying what I wrote in my posts.

#67 Look: no doubt zia had brought up a lot of "maulvi officers" in the military - but they had been perceived as a problem by succeeding cincs, and quietly weeded out of key position through attrition (retirements etc.) in the decade before mush took power.

no doubt pakistan had good growth past 10 years - but that is no justification for attacking the fundamentals of the state. that is like painting the decks of the ship while blowing a hole on the side. and also, much of the progress was due to global trends - increased remittances and so forth.

HP: I got aitezaz on, but wasnt paying too much attention to him. will slow down on chowk i think..:-)

#67 Posted by Look on March 31, 2008 10:33:10 am


Pakistan's 8% growth


You only had one year of 8.4% growth..every year since has been less than that...even with made up wheat production numbers..

your growth was a credit bubble that has burst...it's not like you produced any real companies or industries..

reality is the female of the canine species..

ijazgul: does it make any sense to you? makes no sense to me. this is typical musharraf strategy - blame the US ("they told me you are either with us or against us") when talkiing to pakistanis. blame Pakistanis when talking to the US ("if i go, the terrorists will take over").

Listen to the new govt instead - it is openly saying that terrorists are Pakistan's problem, rather than scapegoating the US. And it has changed Pakistanis image 180 degrees before the world from one inhabited by half-brained maulvis (as mush cleverly painted it) to one with a vibrant middle class and a nation of freedom loving people who are prepared to fight for universal values.

HP writes "Allende won only 36% of votes in a three way contest.."

The Christian Democrats the two of the three way ran on a socialist platform, together these two had around 60% of the mandate. In the previous election the non-socialist US supported "president" had 31% of the popular vote- this tells me that the socialist mandate was much higher than the capitalist (US slave) mandate. The coup was US orchestrated and not socialism orchestrated and cannot be justified when an elected president, elected by popular mandate regardless of the mandate of the loser in the race is overthrown....it is just as wrong as the Pakistani coups

#72
Tahmed ji,

Sorry, I don't share your optimism about the lawyers movement nor do I consider the CJ an independent jurist. Standing up against someone can have many reasons(like being in the pockets of some other politician.)

#74

'your growth'...

I am Indian.

Asadi,
I am not suggesting that the coup was right. There is no doubt that was a horrible act and must be condemned. The situation in Pakistan is different than Chile of 1973.

HP: loved this shaer on Geo being read out:

zinda haiN wukla
meray mulak kay wukla
koi aa kay dekhay
takraa kay dekhay
aitezaz kay saathi
kurd kay saathi

ik mulak ki khatir
ik aeen ki khatir
lalkaar kay bolo
zara zor say bolo
sab chief kay saathi
ham chief kay saathi

..

hope someone makes a youtube out of this

#77 Look: you are welcome to your views.

Tahmed,
I have just been transported back to the 70s.
Aitazaz and now this woman are doing great!

HP writes "The situation in Pakistan is different than Chile of 1973..."

One thing is similar though, the US is meddling in our affairs for the ulterior motive of its elite just like it was in theirs and for that purpose it subverts the people's mandates and operates through the barrel of a gun, and the gun usually wears the uniform of the indigeneous military..

and the poetess-lawyer continues live from Quetta:

aye ka doobara

Chief Justice!

Wukla ki taaqat
Justice ka Justice

Chief Justice!

aye ka doobara

Chief Justice!

qaum ki khatar

Chief Justice!

aeen ki khatar

main mar bhi jaoon
meri qabar per likhna
aye ka doobara


Chief Justice!

and one thing is constant, tahmed's patriotism is fake when he hides and masks the US part of the equation...because that ensures that even when the face changes and he sings praises of the new face the structure that spews coups remains the same...

tahmed's patriotism is fake fake with a CAPITAL "F"

later...

HP: yup. reminds me of the time we took out Ayub Khan on the streets of Lahore. Ayub at least left once he saw the game was up (when Altaf Gohar suggested a referendum as a "trick" to stay in power, even Ayub had the decency to say that the referendum was there in the streets). This scoundrel just keeps hanging on when Pakistan needs to get on with addressing the serious issues facing it.

and more from Quetta...

ham cheen kay lain gai

Azaadi!!

tera baap bhi day ka

Azaai!!

Re: # 84 masadi

You don't have to tell us that. There is a reason that he is called the Moulana Fazlur rehman of Chowk and that is it.

...and more..


mera mulk bacha lay
ya maula

mera aeen bacha la
ya maula

qayyum bhi lay lay
altaf bhi lay
ya maula

zaalim ko uthha lai
ya maula

meray aeen ko bacha lay
ya maula

mera mulk bacha lay
ya maula

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..and more from Quetta...

Chief teray jaan nisaar!!
beshimaar!! beshimaar!!

Hamidm:

#10

"100 Day agenda

1. liberate kashmir"

Wasn't "liberating Kashmir" ala Kargil fiasco responsible for the current mess?

Had there been no "Liberation" , no Kargil, probabaly Mushy would not have kicked Nawaz out.....

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#94 buzz off monkey man. go talk to self-worshipping masadi and arab worshipping urstruly.

Hamidm: Great speech just made by the Chief Justice. Hope you were listening - if not, here is a one line summary: jo qaumaiN qanoon ka ahtraam nahin kartiN, woh qaumaiN khatam ho jaati haiN. Hope this helps you understand the importance of this struggle.

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aww tahmed, did arjun turn you into a jihadi that quickly? LOL!

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tahmed,

..... it seems that you don't have any friends on chowk other than me ! ..... so be nice to me

arjun,

.... did i ever tell you that i love you? .... thanks for keeping us pakis honest - the drinks are on me if and when we ever meet ...... even though i really don't have the patience for hindoo code coolies, i will make an exceptiion in your case .....

bubba,

....you ignorant slut ! ..... the leh is the filthiest open sewer in the sub continent that runs through my hometown of rawalpindi ..... and how can you not know what is watwani ? .....haven't you seen a mohammedan man standing by the road with his nala (aazar band) in one hand and the other stuck inside their shalwar drying off their thingee with a stone - it is the most important sunnah of all ....

.... anyway, i enjoyed your comments on my demands from the new government - they hit the mark

Re: # 107 Hamidm

I thought the Sahih Bukhari Hadees regarding personal hygiene and stones was after a No:2?! and I think the recommendation is an ODD (1,3,5..) rather than EVEN(2,4,6..) number as well!

gotta go; enjoy!! whatever works for you guys

Hamidm, now why would someone go to detroit to have a drink with you? I mean, people leave detroit, no one goes there!

Re: # 105

Hamid mian,

[#62 Posted by masadi on March 31, 2008 10:29:47 am
g'night]

masadi is saying g'night to you and you ignored him? Again!? What happened between the two of you? Are you not talking with your sweet prince anymore?

Re: # 107 Posted by hamidm2 on March 31, 2008 1:51:18 pm

hamid mian,

[.....haven't you seen a mohammedan man standing by the road with his nala (aazar band) in one hand and the other stuck inside their shalwar drying off their thingee with a stone - it is the most important sunnah of all ....]

I thought that was called "istanja?" would that be considered a lewd behavior in the west? or would that be protected under muslim's religious practice?

re: tahmed and other democracy-minded islamists (talk about a contradiction in terms!)

This is how "democracy" is maintained in an Islamic land:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03/31/turkey.trial.ap/index.html?e ref=rss_world

Here's the article:

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's top court will hear a case for a ban on the Islamic-rooted ruling party, a decision that could lead to months of political uncertainty in a nation divided over the role of religion in society.


The country's chief prosecutor is seeking the dissolution of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's party on the grounds that it is trying to scrap secular principles enshrined in the constitution.

The 11-member Constitutional Court's decision to hear the case was unanimous, said Osman Paksut, deputy chairman of the court, on Monday.

The case highlights the power struggle between Turkey's secular establishment, including the judiciary and powerful military, and Erdogan and his allies -- pious Muslims who advocate political and economic reforms as part of Turkey's bid to be a member of the European Union.

Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek, who also serves as the government spokesman, told a news conference that the governing party would "use its democratic right and defend itself."

Cicek, however, downplayed the importance of the legal challenge, saying: "We are focusing on economic issues and reforms to progress the country's membership bid to join the European Union."

Erdogan's Justice and Development Party will seek the support of opposition parties to amend the constitution to make it more difficult for the party to be closed, senior lawmaker Nihat Ergun said.

"It is now inevitable to make changes on articles related to political parties," Ergun said.

The party has 340 seats in the 550-member parliament. Constitutional amendments require at least 367 votes. However, if the proposed amendment receives at least 330 votes, the president could call for a referendum on the changes.

Hikmet Sami Turk, a former justice minister, said the government should not use its power to influence this case. "If they amend the constitution that should only be valid for cases after this one; otherwise the ruling party will be passing an amnesty for itself," Turk said.

Ilter Turan, a professor of political science at Istanbul's Bilgi University, said closing down parties was "a pretty common practice" in Turkey.

"The ruling party had no reaction when the chief prosecutor sought to disband a pro-Kurdish