Simply Outrageous!

Dear brothers in faith,

Don't let CHOWK's new look fool you into thinking that some 'new management' has taken over and that things will suddenly improve. If they do at all, let it be known that I have repeatedly requested CHOWK editors to MODERATE and control the RAW-agents who have nothing better to do than analyse Pakistani news and then stoop to abusing Islam and the Prophets by pretending to be interacters!

There is deathly silence at the editor's desk. Surprised? Not only this, they are guilty of killing quite a few of my articles over the years! I beleive, they still have not received the 'security clearance' to publish them.

One door closes but many others will open. CHOWK is not the final frontier; that it has degenerated into a hate-site should not come as a surprise to those who have turned it into one.

One evening's worth of search reveals that these anti-Islam half-humans will not reform. They are nicely linked; most 'kufr' is anyway. That goodnes stands squabbling amongst itself is a sad situation and I expect that born-Muslim interacters here will remember who they are, where they come from, and where they might be headed if they join hands with 'highly-educated satans'.

Indeed, the Qur'an calls all such persons who lapse into utter unbelief 'monkeys' and 'pigs'. Why? Because the outward behaviour and moral decadence begins to resemble that of such animals.

I must thank those who stood up for me, and those who even thought of doing the same but were afraid of being ridiculed or abused.

There are three kinds of men in this world; fighters, collaborators, and traitors.

See where you fit!

Regards.

Re: # 28
here is your gift laddu, if you have an open mind you will find this quite amazingn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8b3wNXEyPA

Re: # 28
With best wishes a gift for Laddu

This new govt has opportunity to give realfreedom toprovinces as lahore4 resolution.Just now it is slave owner relationship.Mr.Mengal is stillin jail.What is this new govt tamasha.
Yesterday BLA blew pipe line carrying gas to ,24ich pipe line. Now these peopleare angry for uneual treatment. Example I give. Copper project in B.Stan , China gets 50 paisa ,federal govt 48 paisas and B.stan govt 2 paisas. This deal is worst than slavery or worst than black skinned person living in usa. So no real baloach wants such deals. Again no justice no peace.How about giving china 52 paisas,b.stan 46 paisas and federal govt 2 paisas.Also baloachi gas sold for less than $3 for std BTU units when world price is peaking almost $9.Why baloachis subsidise punjabis when then are oppressing them. Without federal occupation balochis willbe rich balochis like quawaitis not poor pakistanis. Govt should discordold lawyers and put person lawyers like YLH new generation to make laws according to lahore resolution other wise pipe lines willbe blowing up.
Good night.

Re: # 38 Mr. T ... what I have written which one can not understand.It is straight and simple.

Re: # 25
Laddu seems to be running the Hindu version of "madrassa" as specified by Bush.
Take care of your langoat Shastri jee because when the angel of death will choke you and your dead body while it burns like chestnuts on open fire you still will endure the beating as you try to sit up and run, those who love you the most will strike you the hardest as your bones explode.

mr. madani: i understand they are starting a new course in Karachi university that explains the hidden meaning of your chowk posts. Is that true?

Re: # 36 Still usa depenendant on pakistan as more restive places are on border of Pakiatan and a.stan. So still petrol has to from Pakistan and usa may not admit but gas line is controlled by pakistan which is life of modern energy guzzler war machine. Location and location and locaton for renting is universal truth. If america start playing dirty gas delievaries can gofast dry by conveys burning as recently happened. May be old Jinnah was right america needs more pakistan than other way.

not good news.
NATO and Russia agree land transit for Afghanistan

* Moscow rules out troop and air transit arrangements
* NATO raises around 1,800 troops to reinforce Afghan force

BUCHAREST: Russia agreed on Friday to allow NATO to use Russian land to deliver non-lethal supplies to alliance troops in Afghanistan, but not troops or air transit arrangements as initially sought by NATO, Reuters reported.

The deal was showcased at a summit between alliance leaders and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Bucharest as evidence of co-operation between the former Cold War foes. “It’s been done. It will cover land transit of non-lethal equipment. Air transit is not for today,� a NATO spokeswoman said.
Russians were defeated by Pakistan and Saudi and americans and russians want tostab pakistan it appears. Russians need to grow up and try develop good relationships and forget revenge.Or ploy by americans put pressure on on Asif and NS and take opportunity tocut military aid to pakistan.
Hope Pavo. will write what is going on

Re: # 28
Have you ever stepped out of India? You need to see the world.

Don't did THIS, do something more productive like improve yourslef spiritually. Get rid of your silly emotional baggage, that hatred against Islam.

Don't be such a pain.

Re: # 27
It is not permitted to abuse these goddesses and gods you refer to. Who says that? The Qur'an.

That's all I can warn you with 32. I hope you don't work for CHOWK offending the likes of Laddu?

Re: # 25
You need to consult with your nearest neuro-surgeon.
Ram, Ram what a Laddu...

And what CHOWK editors....

Re: # 23
Its amazing how Salman Rushdish you sound Ham-Damn2!

I hope you meet the right angel soon (the one that painfully extracts the souls that sinners refuse to give up when their time comes). I think you know what I mean.

May THAT angel deal with you appropriately. Ameen.

Re: # 24 Ballot and bullet

The system of ballot that you are trying to own at this time, is a screwed up manipulative game of musical chairs. It ensures that no honest person with honest means of living would ever get elected or take charge. That goes true for all levels from municiple elections to the Senate. The criteria of selection is "jo jitna harami ho ga who utna he electable ho ga". In this so called ballot, isn't uit true that all those criminals and incompetent politicians have been re-elected who have been discredited many times in the past. These are the people who caused us the very misery we are in today. Isn't it true that almost all of them have squandered billions of rupees of public money in their respective period of rule - lest you forget the cooperative housing scandals, cooperative baniking scandals, banking scandals, forgiveness of loans scandals, stock market scandals......the list just goes on and on ad infinitum. And you promoting them as some kind of massiah's so either you are a charlatan or a dolt. If this is your ballot system then laholwila quwat. Despite living in west for so many years has not made you any different than the donkey who is carrying a load of books. You can do better than this.

Re: # 22
Surely, those who seek Allah SWT's help must first help themselves; just as you suggest.

Re: # 23
"gabriel shared with mo"
correction,
Jibreel(aka Gabriel) conveyed (not shared) the message from Allah SWT to Mohammed Sallalahu Alaih-e-wassalam (i.e. Peace be upon him).
It is only in the faith of Islam that one cannot substitute for another in praying, as opposed to some other faiths where the concept is that you can pay someone and confess, or, you can ask someone to communicate with the Almighty on your behalf, most certainly if you announce to me before your obituary is printed knowing you from your distraught writing with reference to Allah the almighty/SWT, Prophet Mohammed SAW/PBUH and Jibreel-e- ameen/trustworthy, I will definitely pray for you to be treated accordingly.
However I pray that Almighty Allah SWT blesses you with a better vision and tolerance, however the choice is yours, there is no compulsion in religion, i.e. la ikraha fi deen.

Tahmed ji,

Allah is a cross of Mohammad's alter ego and Abrahim's Yehowah.
But only a Quranic literalist would interpret puran in a literal way. We consider these as allegoric stories. The depiction of a thousand headed and thousand eyed Purusa or Vishnu in a literal way is wrong. A thousand eyed Purusa can only be experienced in meditation (Tapas) and only Arjuna could with stand the Pratyaksha Purusha in his waking state.
A person who relaized the sharatraksha and sahastra-pada purusa gets liberated immediately.

To think that idolators "worship" idols is the biggest mis-information and caricature of Islamism. We "worship" the devas and devatas NOT their visual icons and representation. The four hands or elephant-like-head are all symbolic representation of deities that can be experienced in deep meditation.

laddu bhai: where have you gone? hope i didnt offend your religious feelings. it was just a joke. you can worship all the cross-species gods you like - that is your right.

ps: consider importing some ancient greek gods - some were really cool. like Venus. but stay away from the centaur - you have enough cross-species gods already.

laddu: and what was the parentage of the half-man, half-elephant god; and of the half woman-half octopus god??? just curious??

here is an excellent analyses on psychiatric analyses of Mohammad's personality by Dr. Ali Sina.
Mohammad was a motherless child with a very pathetic child hood. In his youth he had to work under the thumbs of a powerful pagan woman khadija. Khadija was like a mother to that 25 year old apprentice chotu in her trading outfit. Khadija 'married' him after the death of her husband so that the family members cannot usurp her deceased husband's business and assets. Mohammad had no place to go and agreed to be a toy boy to khadija who was almost 20 years elder. He remained a toyboy and 'opressed' under a woman for next 20 years- so much so that he became depressed and started visiting hira caves. He started practicing 40 day hira cave meditation as part of the pagan ritual which he followed. But he went mad afre getting hallucinations. Khadija was very sympathetic to his condition. The 60 year old woman tried to comfort the depressed 42 year. But the revolt and madness was imminet. No doctor or modern medicine was available to Mhammad in those days.
He went mad against living under the shadows of an over powering woman all the time. He Probably knocked off khadija and justified his actions by calling it a revelation of Allah.
He became violent and used the story of Abrahim to justify violence against pagan idolators in mecca. He started his cult, violence was the ultimate argument for arguing his case. By proclaiming a madness-syndrome as a 'religion' he started the cult of mohammadeism and multiplied the madness million times.
Pakistan needs thousands of psychiatric centres to counsel against the Mad-Mohammad-Syndrome.

#20 urstruly: you cant win with bullets; you cant win with ballots. so you are doomed to spend your days cursing every object in sight. (and i am sure you enjoy your act, and for your sake hope you become normal again when you get off the keyboard).

Re: # 20

izuber,

"bow to Allah SWT individually and in congregation seeking forgiveness from HIM for our shortcomings " ..

...... good idea ! why don't you bang your head on the ground a couple of times for me too and spare me the humiliation .........

....bewakoof! .... the reason we find ourself in this predicament is not because we don't wash our butts and nuts and then raise them towards the heavens in supplication, the reason lies our inability to get rid of the baggage and move on ........ as long as we stay mired in the dark cave that gabriel shared with mo, we are bound to stumble around in darkness ...........

Re: # 20

Noble sentiments but Allah Himself has said that He has not changed the condition of a people who do not wish to change themselves. A change is necessary. Chane means eliminating a morally bankrupt, pro-western, corrupt social elite which was left over here after Western colonial aggression on our lands. This is not only a particular group of people but it is a mindset. It is the mindset of vassalage, inferiority complex, and complacency. Mark my word that we will never be free until we hunt them down, every single one of them, and cleanse the society of their overpowering oppression. This is a bitter pill we have to swallow.

Recently they have chnaged masks to play new danse macabre with us. Fouji verdi was getting just too obvious. A new contingent of charlatans in civilian clothes have descended upon us like a murder of crow that gathers around a carcass. Now it is people's choice whether they want to be taken in by these thugs once again or they are ready to make sacrifice??

Re: # 10
Surely, " God was neither on their side nor ours" and wont be on the side of anyone except those, who are themselves on their own side to begin with.
As long as we keep sitting facing another alike us with our mouth open to be fed, what will fall in those open mouths is to be determined by the "provider".

Thanks for an article written quite well, summarizing many aspects of what looms.
First of all I feel that we need to act in real sense like Muslim ummah, all of us regardless of the geographical boundaries need to readjust our Kaabba from White House & Buckingham towards Baitullah.
I am amazed as to how much hope and anticipation, we the entire Muslim ummah places in these two legged humans like ourselves, as defined by a renowned scholar, comparing ourselves to Allah SWT we are nothing more than maggots, yet we look up to another one like ourselves to fulfill our needs, instead if we address Allah SWT and seek with similar devotion there is not limit to HIS blessings while it has been stated in Quran-e-Pak numerous times, what translates to "ask and you shall receive", why cant we turn to Allah SWT to seek fulfillment of our needs?
I personally believe that the principal reason behind our failures and to be caught among the quagmires of world politics creation of so-called super-powers is, due to the lack of reasonable level of iman and the aspiration to seek from others like ourselves, other than Allah SWT.
No matter how differently I feel about the various aspects of the politics of Pakistan but I feel it is high time that we should all come together like expected from ummat-e-muslimah and do our best to secure the best interest as a Muslim nation, bow to Allah SWT individually and in congregation seeking forgiveness from HIM for our shortcomings of the past and seek HIS guidance and support in securing the nation and the homeland. We should humbly seek from HIM to create a love for each other regardless of the many languages we speak, regardless of the several ethnic and social backgrounds we come from, after all what ties us together is Habl-ullah, the one and only rope, the only source that glues and binds us together . We should refrain from hating each other and try to overcome our emotions and anger.
Only once we adopt the humility expected from a believer of Islam and when we began to seek from Allah SWT instead of these petty politicians of the so called world powers, we will be able to accomplish and achieve anything less than that leaves us vulnerable.
May Allah SWT bless us with the abilities to cope with present and future and protect us from the fitnah of people, ameen.
Jazakallah

old dog, new leash...

Haqqani appointed ambassador to US
ARIF RANA
ISLAMABAD (April 03 2008): In a clear indication to strictly follow Pentagon tailored-policy to keep on playing the role of frontline fighter against war on terror, Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani government has called back Major General, Mahmood Ali Durrani (Retd) from Washington and appointed Hussain Haqqani as Pakistan's ambassador to the USA.

Haqqani, an internationally recognised intellectual and a political analyst was appointed as advisor on Foreign Affairs Ministry by the Gilani government just a week back. He is now going to take over the office of Pakistan's ambassador to US in a week or so.

Major General Durrani who was appointed as Pakistan's ambassador to US some two years back is already in Islamabad and having meetings with the PPP and PML-N leadership before taking over his new job of an advisor to the National Security Council (NSC).

Here come the RAW agents again...

Don't you wish to see what's behind this 'war' OF terror. It is oil and dope, and the U.S. wants all of it for its kids! (aakhir insaan bachoN kay liay hi to sab kuch karta hay!)

And will a real Afghan explain if 'at least two generations are required to civilize this nation of savages' as Ham-Damn2 says in #5?

With a stooge of the US oil-men (Karzai), what do you expect in Afghanistan?

Until next time.

#9 Posted by dost_mittar on April 3, 2008 4:57:20 am


It is for the first time that the Pakistani public is so angry at the US and feels that it is forcing Pakistan to go against its own interests


this situation is entirely of their own making..pakis were fine with the jihad as long as they thought the jihad was giving them strategc depth in afghanistan and would give them kashmir on a platter..

if i had a penny for everytime a paki told us about pakiland's geostrategic situation and how it was bleeding india, I'd have enough money to buy a bunch of hellfires..

pakiland is like a drug addict was forced to go on rehab. a jihad junkie if you will..like any other addict, it's experiencing withdrawal symptoms..it thinks the problem is rebab, not the drugs...

hamid writes "the West knows that jihadi fever goes beyond just Pashtuns"

Of course the West should know sage ( of the sewers) the constructed the entire church driven and then later orientalist mythology about the wild eyed barbarians and their prophet, fermented that in the historical psyche of their folk and now recently after the collapse of the SU resurrected the same model with the modern day bells and whistles to embark on a war with no end- they should know far it goes and if it fizzles out in Afghanistan, they will spare no effort to jump-start it, for that purpose their main pumping and priming lab is Pakistan- it is of no concern to these real barbarians (the US elite), if the Pakistanis get ground to the bone, the country gets fragmented or the over hundred million that already live on less than $2 a day (most of them under $1) now start eating on polluted air for breakfast lunch and dinner because no food is available or shortages are created to promote the bio fuel BS of Al-fucking-Gore....

you are right about that but there is general consensus in united states and indian strategic thinkers that pakistan needs to be denuclearised and the politicians and generals will use this excuse to make their own games.

in principle u r right but even if indians urinate they can drown a large part of the region.

Ammendment/Correction:---

For :--

An attempt by ZAB to introduce a smaller regular army with a wider expandable civilian reserve in time of war like Israel and many European armies was sabotaged by ZAB.The army as an institution has a vast share in the country's economy.

Read:--

An attempt by ZAB to introduce a smaller regular army with a wider expandable civilian reserve in time of war like Israel and many European armies was sabotaged by General Zia ul Haq .The army as an institution has a vast share in the country's economy.

#10 Posted by pavocavalry on April 3, 2008 5:03:24 am


A glance at India's increasing defence and intelligence budget proves that the conflict will continue at low intensity till Pakistan is denuclearised.


pavo: not to claim the mantle of gandhi for india or anything, but you do realize that india spends far less on defense as a % of it's GDP than the land of the pure...the numbers for education are the reverse...

Its worthwhile to read my friends Dr Hamid Hussain's commentary on my article published by another great friend Ravi Rikhye on www.orbat.com , I quote an interesting excerpt :---

Pakistan is a new state which has struggled to cobble a nation. It embarked on using the religion as an anchor but it didn’t work. On one end, it opened Pandora boxes by declaring some citizens as non-Muslim i.e. Ahmadis and on the other end sectarian fault line widened. Bengalis were as good or as bad Muslims as any other Pakistani but they finally rejected the Pakistani identity and were able to achieve independence. The ethnic fault lines have widened in the last twenty years and I don’t see any mechanism in place either at government or at civil society level to address this crucial issue. Baluchs are completely alienated to a point where Baluchistan university is now a no go area for armed forces personnel of the country’s army. This was frankly admitted none other than the Commandant of the Staff College at Quetta. Ethnic and sectarian forces will realign and if violence stays above a certain threshold then international players will have no choice but to work with local players rather than routing everything through Islamabad. That will be a bad day for Pakistan. )

#1 Posted by zeemax on April 3, 2008 12:14:29 am

yeah goatbrain....because we all know bush takes his marching order from the huffington post...

The Muslims should thank the knight in shining armour English East India Company for saving them from Hindu/Sikh domination in 1803 and 1849.I think history has forced Pakistan to compromise.

From what I saw of the Pakistan Army and from what my ancestors serving in the army and police saw of present Pakistan from 1849 I see little hope.Anyone who doubts it should read Punjab Chiefs published in 1908.



Great expectations were placed in Muslim troops of British Indian Army before 1914.German general Von Bernhardi writing in his book "Germany in the future war" hypothesised that Muslim troops of Indian Army would not fight against the Turks.The Muslim troops mostly Punjabi were loyal to British as a rock against the turks.Only the Tribal Pashtuns the Wazirs , Mahsuds and Afridis and the Ranghars of 129th Light Infantry rebelled.Even the Sikhs showed disaffection.As a result Afridi Mahsud Wazir Ranghar and Sikh recruitment was reduced after WW One and the Punjabi Muslims became the majority in fighting arms.Not for fighting well but for proven loyalty against Muslims.Such was the difference that when two Pathan squadrons of 15 Lancers refused to fight against Turks in Iraq it had to be replaced by the Hindu Jat squadrons while the Punjabi Muslim squadron of 15 Lancers stayed loyal.The same was proven again at Jallianwalla Bagh.The only instance of Indian troops refusing to fire against civilians was done by Garhwali Hindus of Garhwal Regiment at Peshawar IN 1930.This is the same pakistani army with the mercenary tradition.little good should be expected from it.mercenaries they were and mercenaries they will remain.

Pakistan is not the land of heroism.It is the land of opportunism and shameless pragmatism.Thats why Bakht Khan was killed by Muslim soldiers from the FF regiment according to its regimental history.Thats why Prince Feroz Shah in 1859 had to seek sanctuary in Bajaur.

Yesterday army chief General Kiani should have briefed secretary defence only . What business does he have of briefing the politicians directly.The question is that minister of Defence or secretary defence instead of controlling the army are controlled by the army.Most of the politicians have served in some military government in Pakistan.Independent spirit was stifled as a policy by all four military governments of Pakistan.Pakistani defence forces are heavily dependent on US/European suppliers for their hardware.The army is a standing regular army instead of an army based on universal military conscription.An attempt by ZAB to introduce a smaller regular army with a wider expandable civilian reserve in time of war like Israel and many European armies was sabotaged by ZAB.The army as an institution has a vast share in the country's economy.

Seein in this situation little dynamism or independence of spirit can be expected from the present political set up already swelled by opportunists joining the coalition.There seems little hope that a leader will emerge who has the statesmanship , the intellect and above all the resolution to say No to the USA.The Unipolar World Order established after 1990 has successfully and without any moral regret successfully attacked and occupied two independent countries Iraq and Afghanistan.It appears that soon Iran will be on the hit list.Big business , banks with huge profits and big interests have already penetrated Pakistan's economy and stock market.Unemployment is on the rise and extremist outfits small in number but force multiplied by ruthless efficiency and fanatical motivation seem to be terrorising the silent majority.Just like 12,000 Bolsheviks held Russia hostage after 1917.A confusion of principle has been introduced by the contradiction between what the state stands for and its linkage with Pakistan's ideology.On the other side is the dilemma of balancing the Indian threat with the US threat and to walk a tight rope in between.Who will perform this extremely difficult balancing act.The military led by its generals mafia seems to have withdrawn but this is only a tactical withdrawal.A suspension of action by the generals.In hunting terminology it is said that once a tiger or a lion tastes human blood it becomes lazy , no longer hunts and prefers human flesh which is far easier a pray.Similarly Pakistan's generals have tasted the blood of their own people.They have been blinded by real estate and mega deals.Its difficult that they would abandon man eating.

The Pakistani politicians main benefactor is the USA , thanks to the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) manipulated by USA they were bailed out.Its outrageously illogical to assume that any Pakistani politician would have an independent outlook.Rhetoric and some cosmetic gestures apart , docility timidity and meekness in front of USA would be rule of the game.

Peace between India and Pakistan is also a mirage.A glance at India's increasing defence and intelligence budget proves that the conflict will continue at low intensity till Pakistan is denuclearised.Every sell out to USA would be rationalised by Pakistani politicians and generals by saying that it had to be done to prevent Indian hegemony.

The USA is a strange ally of Pakistan.On one side its an ally and on the other it is preparing to reduce Pakistan to size.No joke that Henry Kissinger said that to be an enemy of USA is one thing but to be its friend is deadly.The USA has occupied Afghanistan not as a final objective.Its long term strategic agenda includes reducing Pakistan to size on one hand and to use its army as a mercenary just like the British used it against the Turks and the tribal Pashtuns.

A long hard road lies ahead for Pakistan.While Musharraf thoroughly discredited the army by his major policy blunders after 2002 there are many Musharrafs in the waiting in the army.While present politicians have got yet another opportunity to prove that politicians have not failed Pakistan.The challenge is phenomenal.Already the many hopeless intelligence agencies of Pakistan master at killing its own people and failing miserably in war to find out where the Indian Armoured Division was have re-commenced the game of divide and rule and breaking or blackmailing politicians.

The future is not as bright as many hope and the man eater or man eaters has not been dealt with.Pakistan is sandwiched between a dangerous internal threat basically created by its army's misuse of religion and by a dangerous external threat compounded by a weak economy .One can only say that the remedy in this situation is not the job of a mediocre politician.Statesmanship appears to be sadly lacking and generalship extremely rare in Pakistan's army.May be we should expect a miracle ? But as Machiavelli well said more than 400 years ago " God was neither on their side nor ours".

pavo#4:

I agree with you in general but one must also realise the difference in the situation now and in the past. It is for the first time that the Pakistani public is so angry at the US and feels that it is forcing Pakistan to go against its own interests; political leaders who depend upon public support cannot go against their wishes beyond a certain point. Yes, the Pakistani army can be bought but it too is thoroughly discredited at the moment and will be unable to do anything. Of course, the situations may be quite different a year or two down the road if the politicians follow their traditional corrupt practices.

complete BS..par for the course on chowk..


It is partly because these trigger-happy Americans have become so predictable overtime


american are trigger happy? and the pakis who create the taliban and the whole jihadi infrastructure are just followers of the religion of peace?


God knows how many of the ‘terrorists’ were handed over to the US to be at the Guantanamo Bay in lieu of the dollars that our establishment earned.


60 minutes interviewed a german-turk who was released from gitmo because he was deemed innocent and because angela merkel asked for his release..he had come to the land of the pure to learn about islam and get in touch with his islamic thing..the paki cops arrested him because he stood out(he was fair skinned among the dark skinned pakis...did I say dark skinned and hurt your feelings?) the paki government turned him over to the US for 3000$.

one allah's homie for 3000$..not a bad deal..for the US..

Re: # 6

look,

.... i agree, but afghanistan is a good place to start and right now it is the epicenter of this insidious idelogy ....... .

re #5 by hamidm2

Of course Nato will stay in Afghanistan as it should. But not just because of Afghans or Pashtuns but also because they think real danger comes from Pakistan. Unlike what you seem to think, the West knows that jihadi fever goes beyond just Pashtuns. Just read the interacts of the jihadis on this forum. How many are Pashtuns?

a generational solution

..... there is only one way to solve this problem - nato has to stay in afghanistan for at least two generations to civilize this nation of savages .... and i think nato realizes it - they are expanding to include countries like albania and croatia and i am sure that soon georgia and ukraine will also join ........ actually, i wouldn't be surprised if eventually russia also sends troops to afghanistan .......... everyone realizes that the beast of islamofascism must be controlled .......

ideally its all very very reasonable , but practically pakistan's army and politicians cannot say no to america.as an ex army my assessment is that pakistan's mercenary army would outlast pakistan as a state.some day it would be the united states or india's mercenary force.only one paki politician ZAB had the courage to say no to united states and he paid the price.the united states will continue to blackmail pakistan using the india factor and buy its leaders both civil and military as it has done since 1947.most of the paki politicians and generals have their price and they will be bought by the highest bidder at their price.this assumption would be tested in next few months.pragmatism and opportunism is the paki tradition.a simple glance at history of paki muslims proves this only balochistan , sindh and tribal parts of present pakistan resisted the british, sindh in 1942 hur rebellion and the tribal areas all along from 1849 to 1947.balochistan never provided any mercenaries for the brit indian army and baloch were removed as a policy for for being politically unreliable after 1885.

Re: # 1
zeemax,

A deeply indebted country, known world wide as the source of terror , has no chance of being anything independant. Pakistan never had a history of independant policies, from the cento to the sudis and now to the chinese, the choice is only in terns who the master will be.

Do not forget that if some chinese were not to be kidnapped, the lal majid story would have been very different. Now even the chinese knw that the hijackers came from pakistan, and you have no hope what so ever of any independant policy.

World it a tragedy no doubt that the world relations with pakistan is governed by WOT.

Ather bhai,

"President Musharraf’s yes-men, the PML-Q, have been wiped off from the scene."

You are very wrong there, in terms of votes polled, PML-Q is the second largest party in pakistan.

At the abdul paki level, the policies of mushy are very popular.

U.S. Must Quit Bush's Chicken Little Politics in Pakistan, Cold Turkey

Huffington Post: Lisa Gans, 3 April 2008

...The new government has wasted no time in letting Washington know that its heavy-handed diplomacy was a thing of the past. When the U.S. sent its Deputy secretary of state John Negroponte and assistant secretary of state Richard Boucher to meet with General Musharraf on the very day that the new Pakistani Prime Minister, Yousaf Raza Gillani, took office, high-level Pakistani lawyers and government officials immediately made it clear that this was a mistake, and that the new government, not Musharraf, would be making decisions in the country from now on. With unprecedented candor, high-level Pakistanis told Negraponte that his visit and its timing were unwelcome, as was the implication that the U.S. intends to micro-manage the political fall-out of the recent elections.

Washington should now listen to what they were told, take a lesson from Pakistan's democratically elected government and focus on the needs and the will of the people. Up until now, U.S. relations with Pakistan have been largely centralized and impersonal. Pakistanis have felt the presence of the U.S. through coercion exercised by and on their central government. Rather than take a prominent role in programs to assist with access to medical care, schooling, shelter, livelihoods and other staples of social welfare, the U.S. has poured most of its aid into Pakistan's military, and left non-governmental organizations to address the overwhelming needs of the people in what is still a relatively poor country.