Color-Blind Love

This has to be by far one of the most pertinent and well timed articles on chowk - and it is from my wantage point a pretty timeless one.

It is great that you have tackled the issues and writen about these issues.

the questions you ask,
.Where to live? Often involving decisions for Country, City, Neighborhood
- What or if any religion to raise kids in
- What languages to teach them
- What names to give them
-What obligatory and customary cultural and religious rituals to follow
-How to make children comfortable in their dual identity
-How to find a balance in habitually conflicting ideals (e.g., privacy, individuality, etc.)


rethorical or otherwise are cruciall and ones which are universal.

Let us see what happens ....

There is one downside to the inter-racial marriage and that is DESIS could be bred out eventually. The other thing I’ve observed is western girls who marry desis men are mostly from the bottom strata of society, very few are from middle class or professional background. Looking at it from the positive side inter-racial marriages would promote racial harmony and there would be less racial tension in the future.

One of the best articles I've read on Chowk in a very long time!

Ciao

Is the author of this article same hateful little character who spares no effort insulting other people's religioin and cultural values. Is he the same guttermouth?

yar kulharee, look at the bright side..at least the kids did not have the standard ABCD issues (talk to neembu if you dont know what they are). congratulations, hope they take some revenge by marrying a madrassi girl and a turki gir.

Nice statistics, please make sure that the %s add to 100 though.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

nice discussion of interracial, interfaith marriages based on mutual respect and tolerance.

Interesting reviews. Urstruly, I have no misgivings about my partiality, or my guttermouth. Questioning idiosyncrasies are not meant to be taken as disrespect. As I age gracelessly, I will try to work on my stupidity. I value your honest feedback.

Re: # 4
The answer is YES!

That's why I'm against this pseudonym business. Grown men should never hide behind fake identities or their mothers' skirts.

Regards to all the 'real things' on CHOWK.

very interesting...although i have no personal problem with inter-racial marriages, i would draw the line at inter-religious marriages as i think it leads to too many problems and the kids, in my experience, end up in neither religion. 'na idhar kay rahe hum, na udhar kay rahe ham'.

that despite islam giving permission for us to marry people of the book.

i'm no racist but i think everyone should stick to their own otherwise we'll end up with a brownish mush! :p

Just a point of clarification kunkil:

biracial children were a major part of the sexual assault of white slaveowners on African American enslaved women. These children by law were codified as "Black" and subject to subsequent race based policy.

naqs sahib,

because you of course are 100% pukka Muslim Pakistani...? B)

Aslam, where did you get this idea that western girls who marry desis are from the bottom of the socioeconomic strata? If anything, there is more racism in middle/lower middle class than in upper classes (where people tend to be more educated, well travelled, and usually devoid of idiotic racial trappings)

Kul, great article. Although, I am disappointed you didn't ask for my Jeter quote. "In another 200 years, with the amount of interracial fking that is going on, most americans would look like Derek Jeter"

createalpha,

agreed-just check out the marriage announcements in the new york times. and agreed that middle and upper class desis can be peculiarly racist

Naksh yaar, the goal ultimately is to wipe folks that think like you out.keep a close eye on ur kids...they might end up joining the fastest growing religion in the world..the religion of no religion

Feroz Sahib,

An absolute breath of fresh air sir. A well presented case for promotion of love and understanding across man made divides of race, color, nationalities and religions.

Cheers

good one. insightful and funny.

nice article, i think the key to the longevity and health of interracial marriages is balance, you and your wife have a very healthy and respectful outlook to both your cultures and religions, the dynamics at home are not skewed in one direction

i knew one interracial couple in our extended family, unfortunately it ended up in divorce, mainly due to the fact that the husband (a pakistani) made his gori wife, convert, change her name, her dress, forced her to make desi food, alienated her from her family and friends.... and she let him.... in the first five years of marriage she tolerated it, the second five she tolerated it for her kids, and one day she just left him and her kids, married her high school sweetheart

the main disadvantage i can seen of inter-racial/inter-cultural/inter-religious marriages is that
any offspring of such unions lose their racial/cultural/religious purity. if that is not an issue for you--and for many people it is increasingly not--then i see no problem with it.

Urstruly #4 {"Is the author of this article same hateful little character who spares no effort insulting other people's religioin and cultural values. Is he the same guttermouth? "}

Urs,
YES.

"i can seen of inter-racial/inter-cultural/inter-religious marriages is that
any offspring of such unions lose their racial/cultural/religious purity."

there is no such thing as racial/cultural/religious purity, surely you know that

for example a paki marries a chinese girl (like my brother) -- will his kids be pakistani/chinese/british? will they speak urdu/panjabi/english or chinese as a first language? i honestly think it causes too many problems.

beauty in diversity.

Re: # 23; Naqshbandi Sahib, "beauty in diversity."

Regarding your concerns for your nephews/neices, they will grow up to be (hopefully) mature and productive human beings if they get a good upbringing.

Regarding language; again depends how one defines the 'purpose' of language in the first place. If it is for communication (as I believe it is intended), then they should grow up speaking the language (at least) of the country they grow up in. If your brother and bhabi can teach them their own native tongues as well, that would be a bonus, I reckon.

Regarding the question of 'nationality', the level of 'diversity' would depend on if you are talking about building a human society or planning to open a zoo.

Naqshay, does your sister in law make Chow Mein Baryani and Lo Mein KaRahi Gosht?

Why can’t kids learn to speak all these languages? Don’t underestimate their ability to be all. They will surprise you. One is not loosing racial purity but is creating new races. Surely there is beauty in diversity. Thoroughbreds come in many colors (I think Allama Iqbal said that to some Colonial master).

Cheema Sahib, my thoughts exactly.

Re: # 19

wow.

just a question-i don't see any of the pakistani guys here complaining about the food, language, traditions of pathani/up/kosovo muslim women-although they can be arguably "different" from the culture of these pakistani guys...there's no "dissonance" of identity in those cases?

The book of Nehemiah

13:27: Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives.

Re: # 28

Racial superiority is the core value of Judaism. This is one of the long list of charges which Qura'n has categorically laid down against them. It is because of their own racism they brought upon themselves the tragedy of holocaust. No lesson learned there again and they have put a whole nation into two concentartion camps called Gaza and west bank.

Since Qura'n rejects the idea of any kind of racism based on accident of birth, it is a safe bet to assume that this particular verse of Nehmiah is man made corruption in the holy text.

#28 so Quran rejects Bani Israel? Then why pray 5 times a day.. Allaahumma salli 'alaa Muhammadin wa 'alaa ali Muhammadin
Kamaa sallaita 'alaa Ibraaheema wa 'alaa ali Ibraaheema
Innaka hameedun Majeed
Alaahumma baarik 'ala Muhammadin wa 'alaa ali Muhammadin
Kamaa baarakta 'alaa Ibraaheema wa 'alaa ali Ibraaheema
Innaka hameedun Majeed.

O Allah, bless our Muhammad and the people of Muhammad;
As you have blessed Abraham and the people of Abraham.
Surely you are the Praiseworthy, the Glorious.
O Allah, be gracious unto Muhammad and the people of Muhammad;
As you were gracious unto Abraham and the people of Abraham.
Surely you are the Praiseworthy, the Glorious.

Why bless a race that quran rejects?

Bani Israel is derived from Jacob(Yaquub)..aka known as Israel(Fight with (Isra) El (god)) who was son of Isaac who in turn was son of Abraham.

Re: # 30

The blessing that Qura'n promises is not a blank chek but it is conditional. The number one condition to earn this blessing is how much one as individual and as a group acts upon the "amr nil ma'aroof, wa hahi anil munkir" (that is, call others towards good and stop them from evil). This is what Qura'n contends against Jewish contention of the "chosen people"; Qura'n stipulates that it is not the accident of birth but acting on above mentioned criteria that makes someone chosen people.

Qura'n also says that not all people of the book are alike; among them are those who wake up in the wee hours of the night and prostrate before their Creator. They accept only One God and fear noone but Him.(The Cow 2).

Now look at Jews, what they have done. They have turned Rabb-ul-Aalmeen (God of universe) into God of Jews. They don't care if a group people worship idols or worship people like themselves (save Jesus (pbuh), with whom they have a different beef)

Re: # 29

urstruly,

... the only arabs who have a right to vote are the million or so who are citizens of israel ........ go figure

....... according to my friend tehsin who just came back from a vacation in israel and jordan, the arabs are like the ghetto blacks in america ..... he did not see any lines or queues at the check points and the only time he was harassed by anyone was by fellow moslems at aqsa who barred the women of his family from entering because of 'improper' islamic attire ...... and let's not forget that when the muslims had control over jerusalem jews were banned from praying at the wailing wall which is all that is left of their temple which is buried under a monstrous mosque ....

..... as i have always said, israel is a shining beacon of light in that wasteland of igonorance ......

Re: # 33

"and let's not forget that when the muslims had control over jerusalem jews were banned from praying at the wailing wall which is all that is left of their temple which is buried under a monstrous mosque .... "

This is a white lie. The fact is that when Calph Omar (RA) conquered Jerusalem, it was the 500th year that Jews were forbidden to enter the Holy City. Muslims were the first to allow them in after centuries. The hetered of Muslims is one thing but being at least honmest to historical truths is another thing.

The very reason Arabs don't vote, (as if it is some kind of Divine mandate) is because the corrupt ruling elite like yourself who is subjugating them. It is the progeny of those who sold Muslims to the western colonial aggression. last time I checked the Israeli neghbor was fuctional democracy until your peo interfered into it caused it to be a failed state.

Re: # 34

I am referring to lebanon

Mohammed's quran can say whatever it wants...but the rest of the world thinks Jews are the chosen people for abraham's god. Nothing you can do about it but let the sores on your leaky behind fester

Re: # 34

urstruly,


... i am not talking about omar shumar, i am talking about the jordanians in 1967 when jerusalem was finally liberated

Re: # 37

Perhaps it had to do with the senseless massacres of Arabs that Jewish settlers started doing right after the end of WWII and stealing Arab lands?

Re: # 38

who owns the jewish and christian lands in saudi arabia ?

Re: # 39

Lets ask Ban ki Moon. Lately he has been whining profusely that he and his organization are a honest broker.

23 Posted by Naqshbandi on April 4, 2008 6:02:54 am


for example a paki marries a chinese girl


The kid will get straight As, play the violin and go on to be a suicide bomber..

#36 Posted by CreateAlpha on April 4, 2008 9:37:45 am


but the rest of the world thinks Jews are the chosen people


pakis are allah's chosen muslims...allah's jews, if you will..

If Gandhi is Father (of india nation)then he does Not give permission to his children to marry 'ouside'....

some of his opinion Sadna has denied but here it is Gandhi on interracial marriage and racial equality:

“We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.”

Indian Opinion, Sep. 24, 1903

The petition dwells upon “the commingling of the Coloured and white races”. May we inform the members of the conference that, so far as the British Indians are concerned, such a thing is practically unknown? If there is one thing which the Indian cherishes more than any other, it is the purity of type.

Indian Opinion Dec. 24, 1903


On the other hand the 'new ' gandhis

its no surprise that Gandhi's don't believe in marrying with there own gujju kind, . They always seem to look elsewhere .

Well I was just reading that Rahul Gandhi is now interested in marrying a hispanic women who is also studying in a University in England (Oxford i think). He is currently 39 years old is mostly likely to run the congress after Manmohan Singh finishes his term. Surprisingly Sonia Gandhi is not encouraging the hispanic women from marrying her son, because of her bad experiences!!!

So its already happened before that a foreigner is running things in india (Sonia Gandhi), but what is the probablity that it will happen once again??? Gandhi's are also known to be assisinated so probablity is high that a Rahul Gandhi can be assisinated by islamic terrorists (lol). So chances are there that his hispanic wife can become another powerful figure. I swear if another foreiner comes into power than I am removing my citizenship status!!! rather have an indian muslim as the prime minster of india than some foreigner.

Kulharee,

A very good article. Now you need to write one about faith-blind love, or someone does. :)

Kul,

A very good article. Keep it up....

Dear Feroz Qutubshai,
My apologies that my humble quote
"The book of Nehemiah

13:27: Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives."

has resulted in arab-israeli skirmish.
#32
Brother Urstruly Sahib,
What Quran says generally is also present in Old Testament, Quran is an extract/ and or an extension from OT with a few bells and whistles added for the locals(arabs).
When the question of "who is correct?" or which abrahamic faiths is correct, is where I deviate, cause IMHO it doesnt matter, its the message that one should pay attention too, rather than follow a parable of lets say David and how he slew the philistine also mentioned in Quran literally, and go one slewing philistinnes and israelites. Or take a Jihadi phrase written for a specific time in Quran for a specific event and apply it in our daily lives and call for jihad actually instigating it on almost all occasions.

As far as Jews practicing superiority or not getting into marriages outside of their faith is practiced in other faiths and cultures to this day. Bhorays in Karachi tend to marry within their own circles, Druze or north iraq Kurds are another example (recently a girl was lynched if you remember). Muslims tend to stay within their own faith and if caught in an inter-religion marriage to convert or atleast its encouraged. I believe what Feroz Qutubshai is trying to hilight is that winds of changes are blowing. He wants to sound like Al Gore the alarmist and wants people to take action.
Peace

Why is urstruly crying on behalf of arabs? What does he, a self-proclaimed "suryavanshi rajput", have common with bedouins, except for head-banging five times a day?

Well written (with a couple of his usual humour).

As for God of Muslims and Jews (or for that matter Christians) it's one and the same. The fact was confimred by the King of Arabia recently (with the concurrence of Wahabi family).

Conservative Muslims deny that they glorify/worship Jewish prophets/figures starting with Abraham, Musa, Isa and horrible of all the most famous Jewish King David (as Dawood).

The only Muslim prophet was Muhammed. Rest of them were Jews.

++

Corss-pollination had to take place in this world. Arabs did it big time on Mesopotamians & Egyptians to begin with followed by campaigns in northern Africa. Europeans did in South America, Oz & NZ.

I always wonder why arabs conquered Sindh but refused to hybridise our peoples? :(
Persians helped us later on as a consolation.


++

I met a Bangaldeshi Muslim who married a Russian Jew.They live in Israel. He speaks fluent Russian and German. His views on Islam are liberal and he thinks that Palestenians make a mountain outta molehill (regular clashes etc.,)!?!?!

Re: # 32

Urstruly sahib:

"wa hahi anil munkir"

What does "anil" mean in the above, just curious?

#44: oh wait, you did write about faith-blind love, the title threw me off!!!

It is really great that you can meet the challenges that an inter-faith relationship presents. I was not able to do that in my own relationship with a desi man, and we are both Christian except that he's Catholic and I am not. Go figure! It is harder when families put pressure on a couple, and it does not seem like that is the case with you.

Re: # 50,ana; "Go figure! It is harder when families put pressure on a couple, and it does not seem like that is the case with you."

Pressures are always there under these circumstances. Sometimes one has to have some moral courage to rise above them too. It doesn't hurt to, now and again, stand up for what one believes to be true. Otherwise it is quite easy to waste one's life seeking other's approval all the time.

One of the main reason for not being able to challenge silly traditionalism is this fear; once one takes the plunge, the rest follows. It can also prove to be a test of character too; I know where I'd stand when it comes to that.

One of the strongest arguments one hears under the circumstances is that of a 'lack of longevity' of relationships in the west especially. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the main reason relationships survive for longer in our society is the inferior status of the female partner; they are groomed all their lives for one thing (well over 95% of the time) only; how to be good wives and mothers. With 'joint family' living, again they are far outnumbered and simply don't stand a chance. If one party accepts everything thrown at them without question, of course there are less likely to be issues of divorce; besides, what exactly would be the status of a divorced woman in Pakistan (before somone jumps in, I am talking of the 'real' Pakistan that represents 98% of the population and not a previlaged few who tend to try to maintain this easygoing, liberal image in the west!

For me, I'd rather have an equal partnership with my wife (I think we do for the most part!). The girls I knew from Pakistan were at times far too accommodating and flexible; if anything, that put me off a bit. I like to be appropriately challenged at times; it is stimulating and keeps one on one's toes!

Over the past almost 5 decades, I have seen four generations of pakistani-foreign marriages. In all cases they have worked out very well. All this talk of different cultures, religion and so forth has been as much irrelevant bs as it is on chowk where those with too much time rant about them.

As for the maulvi - they are not muslims. And same for those who give up their God-given brains and look to maulvis for "guidance". Simple as that.

It is always good to upgrade color complexion. One can not change color of skin upit helps to see children having more fair color.
Love is blind so color does not matter but for family it matters. If man marries white is improvement but what happens if man marries dark colored african in usa.It can be problem for parents and brothers and sisters to be associated with africans etc.
I have no objection to our people upgrading color but opposed to go down. It is pathos many children even with nice white mother just take color from father.
It is hard on man all time. Now we know and famalier with sad sorroful tragedy of Othello and lady Desdimona. People are mean minded and shallow and will look at couple and say look at miserable woman she has married dark deshi etc comments.
This type of marriage has advantages as children lookwhite and demand if girls and helps father tomarry them off with out spending much money. ( marriage market white women are gone like IPO )
Now there are someproblems with white women.They are all right up after some time they suddenly good very old and husband starts looking as younger brother. They get bone loss and they get too fat as they keep on eating very neutriuous food and they loose charm. While deshi women may look dark but they are strong like black buffallows strong also they donot divorce and protect husband.And they willnot marry ifman dies.
Now women has advantage over man in choosing partner. Most deshis are little overgrown by age doing masters etc. And good women from deshi marriage market are gone already when he hits for bride late commers are always at tremendious disadvantage. Also it takes man to adjust self valuation and it is cruel and mirror image is stark.Our desi hero is 27 and looking for beautiful,able,conservative but modern and tall and very fair to match his image of american white man. He wastes 3 years rejecting nice women/girls for not differential toeyes ofman,too DARK , has not kept figure etc.Then women start rejectibg him for being too old, Dark and fat and overeducated fool etc. Then these many evil white women who are ambituious not so good looking and reject in dating market are waiting with all charms.And then desi man is captured and he compromises all for marriage sake ,love is concept at age of 32 is old past glory.
I am for color upgrading ( down grading just wrong) if white lady is beautiful really . Man should take test blind test. If you feel if lady was dark as in desi and she will stunning then color mixing is ok.
If lady is devorced walk away if she has children then start running Toba Toba its bomb . Divorced women are romantic by nature and they always feel next attempt will they will get real love. Divorce is habit of romantic people.
Desi is generally man educated he is master degree if white woman is not master then donot marry.
Marry in proper status just like Punji Munda is not going to marry Kumbhar.
Formost family it is great loss though they love child so they donot show it. So hope fully lady becomes muslim and starts waeing modest dress and children attend mosque and not church or other false religions. It is loss as they willnever be pakistani nationalist orbeliever in basic principles of pakistan formation tnt etc. It loss to country and religion as they will never be good muslims or ready to fight for rightous ways.
Actually people should marry before they complete college as those love birds lookgood but once they start doing job the girls start looking woman and man looks mature to be love bird. But now days it is bad fashion not to marry but date even in karachi.Now people like me are against such things we willlike dating after marriage but we told as old reactionaries and obstacle to lafangas is tragedies.
Also desiman should be aware you can not fathom women when you are in love those white women are not. Women are very calculating and accounting oriented they lookat man as possible father to children, as provider of food and home,and ifman will take care of children if she dies,if he will care in old age and marrying him ismore beneficial than other Mr X. So women / white are not love ,no women are they are complex calculating machine and they little down points for color but they all add. While man is crazy romantic and and strange ideas of love ( problems of reading poems and love stories etc) and his problem is only visual and when she laughs he feels like child. o forgets about education ,cultural back ground ,intelligence and color complex dazzles ( najarene bhi kam kiya n khawb ka- mr. Galib) and he is caught.That is problem sowe old are against love marriages.
Any way if onelike white woman be strength for them,its their life and let us best luck.

But one should be careful not marry on southside due to color. I read Mr.Masadi had remarked most white women marry desi are fat. Also they less educated ?If this true then its exploitation being equalone should marry white for future generation.

I have no good understanding of white people sojust these arespecualtions ofmr.Madaninothing morenothing less.
Good day morning.

Mr Madani: Why are you so concerned about color complexion? Unless your color is deep green (in which case you need to see a doctor), the color of your skin should be the least of your concerns.

Re: # 53; madani (color does not matter but for family it matters. If man marries white is improvement but what happens if man marries dark colored african in usa.It can be problem for parents and brothers and sisters to be associated with africans etc.

what a load of bollocks, to put it in the vernacular for your benefit!

mr. madani: and on reading a bit further, i see you are superior to american blacks. rest assured that the only thing lower than an mqm racist like you is one of these hindutva monkeys on chowk. So dont dare insult normal people by acting superior to them, you damned mqm racist!!

How's business Dr Cheema?

Re: # 57tahmed;

been extremely busy thanks. Story of my life....

read on this loonie's (madani) interact though; very enlightening!

#58 akcheema: I read his first couple of lines - this is the way he always is - color of skin, ethnicities, and so forth. He is an older gentleman, so I suppose i should not get mad at him too much.

Have a good night (or day or whatever it is in Australia).

# 55. 56 Please donot put blinds. Every man and women wants to be white. POWDER means white , no woman like to put coal dust on them. Look all important women they will not come out skin foundation and billions of rupees of remedies.Look matrimonial pages. Nothing wrong to feelwhith bright color heaven fullofhoney and milk flowing in rivers all white while hell is dark. Even BB was was white as she appeared due to over painting and she did toimpress herself and other AWAM.Sonyji Gandhili and BB had attactrion duetotheir cream color. They would not have that power and love of people if they were dark or africans.
I said about my preference but people have different tastes ,my cat one is white pure like cotton or snow and other cats know that she is white and they like her most than other cats.
No you lived there what My friend Masadi wrote isright or wrong most desi marry fat white and they are generally less educated. Now color isnot everything alsoaltafbhai is almost caoldarkbut he is king of heart of karachi.
Dark people are not bad just color of them is dark nothing more nothing less. I am told there some movie (I donot see them) "Hum hay kale Phir bhi Dilwale".
All heronies and heros of desh are white and bad people are additinally potrayed dark to add "masala".Now theseindinan producers know what people want.

Re: # 60; madani sahib; Re:(I said about my preference but people have different tastes ,my cat one is white pure like cotton or snow and other cats know that she is white and they like her most than other cats.)

paaji bus karo hun; hus hus ke vakhiyaan tut gaye'aan ne!!... There is some level of innocence and sincerity in how you put your views forward.....I just can't stop laughing though!!

Khuda Hafiz for now sir...

If some body can help me I will like to picture of my cat and grace this pages.
She is 9 years old and her mother and fatherwere both white skinned like cats. I researched through books and looking at pictures. It is not deshi cat.My feeling is some big english officer my have brought her Grandparents on steamship. I my friend ( foreen resident) had visited and then she wrote researched it is " Short haired english Tabby".He send me that jat cat picture its english shart haired. I could not allow her to have children from some deshi cats so had operation.

with due regards for viewing pleasure of the wannabees

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cReHCdLBB5Y

injoy

White black or in between, whatever tickles one's fancy, as the beauty is in the eyes of beholder. In the good old US of A it has been observed & heard from black women specially when they have an adversarial conversation filled with envy, they would usually comment that, whats in white color, when white girls get a black mole they call it a beauty spot! now thats not untrue, poets backhome have abundantly written poetry such as "teray mukhray da kala kala till way" and others.
I have come across a few desi men in their 50's & 60's who when once upon a time they were charged up with their youthful spirits ended up marrying a white lady, and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion although I did not commit such an act, but now after few decades when their children grew up they look back and regret their indulgence.
But then there are a few of those desis also who are married to white ladies and are quite content, off course they wont regret because they did all the right things from inception of their relationship to be worthy better halves of each other.
The principle matter is the intention of one getting involved in an inter-racial &/or inter-faith marriage, is it , the beauty, the appearance, the appeal, the lust or is it that love at first sight, or, were the two made for each other.
As you state in your article there has been many killings based on this very issue where people of one color felt insulted that their kind of person got married to a different color or faith although it has gone down however not quite totally and such sentiments and emotions are still present in today's society specially among the white supremacists where some consider any "colored" person to be inferior than themselves.
Conventionally among the people of Jewish faith the off-springs are to take mother's religion, i.e. if mother is Jewish the children are expected to be Jewish as well regardless of faith, in a manner that is the sign of a self-destructive society since most Jewish women marry Jewish men although there is still a good number of Jewish women who end up marrying a non-Jewish man. On the other hand the children of today specially in the western society don't necessarily follow the religion of parents while some go astray some reserve the right to chose their own once they have developed wisdom to examine various faiths therefore raising children by a given faith of parents does not necessarily have any serious influence.
While there is beauty in all colors and shades, I pretty much feel that our sub-continental sanwla salona complexion beats all other shades and grey-scale too.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 28
Dear Banned Atom,

Are you sure this refers to 'NOT marrying strangers' wives'?

All wives finally become 'strange' if not estranged.

Re: # 33
Dear Ham-Damn2,

Let us all know when you have finally converted (honorary, just like Marilyn Monroe) to Judaism and have been granted Israeli citizenship.

To point to OUR ills without doing anything about them--and worse, gloryfying Israel--is shameful.

What Mr. Naqshbandi is pointing at, I have witnessed a thousand times or more. Diluting races as a means to fix one's obsession with 'gori chamri' comes with a phenomenal price-tag.

Proverb: Kawwa chal hans ki chaal, aur apni bhi bhool gaya!

Peace

Re: # 36
The 'chosen people' for THAT era when they (for a while) followed God's (universal and not racial) commands.

If later Muslims (those who submit fully to God's Will) were called 'the best amongst all', it pointed to the same thing. Get it Alpha-Male?

Do some reading and comparison please. Not all interactors here are ignorant Muslims, although many attackers here are pseudo-liberal atheists or polytheists.

Peace.

Re: # 37

Dear Hamid shamid,

Is that how you refer to the Companions? 'Umar shumar'?

John shawn, Matthew shaththew, Mark shark, Luke shook....

Peace shees.

Re: # 39
And who owns all the land that Muslims were blackmailed into selling to the Israelis?

Re: # 42
Dear Indu friend,

Who let you out so soon? It wasn't a Muslim who blew up Rajiv or shot Indra, was it?

Shaant ho ja moorakh.

#69 Posted by tahir,

Haha ... easy on hamidm2. He's my kaneez shaneez breeder .... !!!

Re: # 47
You do put your two hands together to pray, don't you. THIS is what God calls 'mere clapping of the hands and play'.

Come to the Headbangers Ball now Mr. Mohar Ill-even.

I wonder what’s the figure for inter-religious marriages between hindus and muslims in India. Recently I read there are 100’s of jewish women in isreal married to arab men. In the UK some ethnic groups have a high marriage rates to white, but Pakistanis are lagging behind due to religious-cultural reasons. According to last census there are around 200k mixed south asian/white.

Re: # 49

Dear Nahi-Anil,

Nahi-Anil-Munkar means: Forbid what is evil! (Al-e-Imran: 104)

I hope your surname is not...?

Re: # 51

When you find your Western mate, you will remember your wish!

Enjoy the stimlus when it hits you.

Peace.

Re: # 52
Maulvi is from Mevlevi (Mawlawiyah, in Arabic) of Maulana Rumi. It is a wrong term. Down with this bunch, but then educated and gifted men must come forward! Are you one?

The Qur'an lays a lot of emphasis on using reason (aql).

Let's use it please.

Re: # 76; Tahir Sahib

I have been happily married for 11 years; thanks but no thanks for whatever was the insinuation.

Paaji, did someone step on your poochhal again today?

Re: # 66 "All wives finally become 'strange' if not estranged"

lagda ai tohaday naal badhi kuttay khwari hoee ai paaji!

Re: # 64
Poor white women, in trying to get that tan wind up getting cancer instead!

Re: # 80 Tahir

Read the interacts below as well; they are all for your eyes matey!

I must say you do have one or two screws loose; perhaps I can get one of my colleagues to take a look at you and see if they can fine tune something?

Food for thought

Re: # 65

It's so sad to see that the so called Muslims of this board are some of the most racist snd ignorant towards White and Black people. I'm sure this throw backs to the Abbassid Dynasty would have no problems with imprisoning a range of women in their harems and find a sura in the Qur'an to justify it. Unfortunately, those days are over and the chickens have come home to roost-and we no longer have to listen to this bullshit-we are all educated and can read the Qur'an and Hadith ourselves. We can also refute indefensible notions of bigotry and control.

Tampax's post is another example of the jahil frame of mind that participates in reverse racism. If only we could send Tampax to a Catholic school where the nuns and monks couldbeat him for even looking his usual crosseyed self and bakwasing about alcohol, sex and cigarrettes. I'd pay to see that. :)

# 82,

Why Abbassid alone? Even Mughals kept gori concubines in their harem. Some of them were given to gora diplomats for good time.

Parshuram, this is a good piece...

...not your usual hatchet job!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

This is so brilliant that it deserves a repeat.

"Eh apni Qeythi hai naa Qeythy (Cathy), thori charas pya dyo, thori sharab pya dyo - bas khush rehndi ey!"

#82 Posted by neembu on April 5, 2008 2:24:17 am


we are all educated and can read the Qur'an and Hadith ourselves.


and yet mosques are segregated...

so does this mean the separation is sanctioned by mo's book?

aslam644:

"Recently I read there are 100’s of jewish women in isreal married to arab men."

Does it have anything to do with the Jewish tradition of children following the religion of their mother?

Kulhari:

A well written article on a very relevant topic. Any young desi boy or girl marrying outside their religion/race will benefit from reading your article.

"My own Masjid in London would politely turn down request for a Nikah service unless my fiancée converted to Islam"

Doesn't quran allow the marriage of a Muslim man with a woman of another abrahmic religion?

BTW, I was somehow under the impression that your spouse was jewish.

The stories of inter-racial or interfaith couples are indivdually unique. That is what makes it so interesting. This misperceptions of pakis that desis marry lower class white women has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard. It might be an entirely bradford/paki phenomenon. Sort of ghetto pakis like Tampax marrying their socioeconomic counterparts of another race. In america, the desis are not ghettoized and even pakis are better assimilated and you will find that most interfaith,inter racial marriages are among the well off/professional cadre. Where idiocy of religious mandates takes a backseat to raising kids with a world view far richer in experiences that come from the different backgrounds of their parents.

#90 Posted by CreateAlpha on April 5, 2008 4:55:04 am
"This misperceptions of pakis that desis marry lower class white women has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard."

Then what explains the Harley tattoo in your wife's butt crack?

"My own Masjid in London would politely turn down request for a Nikah service unless my fiancée converted to Islam"

This is must be Mirzaee theology.

Re: # 91

slyder saab, that argument goes only as far as explaining YOUR existence saab

#93 Posted by peonoftheeast on April 5, 2008 5:13:22 am

ali is the product of inbreeding..
once you work out the sordid details of fathers doing it with their daughters and sisters, it's hard to tell who's really who in his family..

just like kul's article is about marrying outside his race/religion, in ali's case, the article would be about someone in his family marrying outside the family...

Kulharee writes " I hope and pray to my Pakistani God that he is respectful, responsible, and dependable to his friends.."

With your rank racism, denigration of your own religion, nation and ethnicity, your kid probably looks down upon his father's kind and tries to be as white as possible- while the white man whose entire psyche is conditioned to look down upon the coloreds will look down upon him as a "half-breed"- even though it is no longer politically or culturally correct to say so, the feelings of their heart have not changed and laws cannot change them when an intolerant white society with high segregation indices and job segmentation, not to mention the foreign adventures of the US elite (and your living in one of the most instiutionally racially discriminating countries)- I feel sorry for you and your child- he must have multiple complexes, acting as a peon of the West among the white man and a white man among the colored folk.....save yourself and your child, return to Lahore and live like a free man.....

Re: # 90
as i said its only my personal observation there are some white professional women who are married to pakistani men, but they are few in numbers.

Re: # 88
what i gather is that these jewish women either convert to islam or they are secular non-practising jews.

BTW fundamentalist jewish groups disaprove of these marriages strongly.

Re: # 49 anil

The word "anil" is a conjunction, roughly equivaent to the english "from".

As a matter of fact correct word is only "an" part of anil which has a meaning of "from", "il" is a part of following word munkir meaning evil. So the correct phrase would have been "an ilmunkir". I was being lazy but not really. In Arabic lexicon most of the words are conjoined to give proper meaning so writing it as anilmunkir would have been correct, but I can't help my urdu.

Re: # 95

masadi saab you are a very very paranoid man saab. do you hear voices too saab? that would be bad and i think you should see a doctor saab

#99 peonofthewest sahib: Those men in black helicopters from the Secret World Government of the Elite were inquiring about the whereabouts of Mr. Masadi sir. I gave them the wrong directions sir. I hope Mr. Masadi will be pleased, sir.

#98 Posted by Urstruly,

Urstruly, it is an'al munkir.

Thanks

Re: # 85

Tampax,

Are you calling another person "trash"...? Is there no end to your self delusion and hypocrisy?

wow, why am i not surprised by any of the responses here.

and masadi: give some of us a damned break about how the white man is conditioned to look down upon the black man, while all is well in the homeland. there are more than a few pakistanis who look down upon the black man, and until those pakistanis get off their high horse, thinking they are superior to the black man, and stop writing songs like "dekho goray ka zamana kabhi hoga na purana" the saying "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" is apt here.

#102 Posted by neembu,

Yes I am doing exactly that. Do you have an argument? Please state it if you do.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 104

Tampax,

An argument to what? Your ignorance? It is stupendous, no argument there.

... in case you want to have a decent conversation, come to Connect and we can have it ... without any vile. That's a promise.

Re: # 107

Tampax,

Most of my conversation are quite decent and that's because the conversants are qualified as such. Kindly refrain from promises you clearly cannot meet.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

neembu, do you have any substance other than red-flagging posts?

dost-mittar #89:

while those of abrahamic faiths are ahl-e-kitaab, it is a whole different matter what certain people decide when it comes to marriage, among other things.

Re: # 111

in the absence of any fair and responsive moderatorship on up, anonymous cyber harrassers will be treated like the haramzadey kuttay they are.

Re: # 75

Tahir sahib:

I am so glad my name is not "Anil Munkar".

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Tampax,

You are a zaleel, jhoota admi. Go shite up your own Depends on your own time.

Is this a Jerry Springer show?

#118 Posted by neembu,

Didn't you send me a personal message asking for my e-mail address?

... go on ... say it. Did you or didn't you?

And, what was my response?

Re: # 120

Tampax,

No, I do not recall ever requesting any contact info from you-the thought is particularly naseauting. However, if you have proof, pretend to be a man and a human being with character and post it.

#122 Posted by neembu,

So you didn't send me a Personal Message?

... it appears from your post that you did send me a Personal Message but you didn't ask for my e-mail address or private contact. Is my understanding correct?