Benazir’s Legacy

Re: # 62
Masadi...

You do not participate in a farce setup by the military and its excrement after undemocratic manuvering like the emergency and the assassination of the leading party's leadership.

Ans: If you are not ready to be part of a system, then stop shouting. Military can rule forever, if people does not grab slightest of the opportunities, they are provided with. The way CPI(M) came to power in West Bengal after emergency (in India), was amazing. Whatever may be systematic lacuna, some point of time, that can be bridged with participation itself. The Congress had resorted to mal-practises against regional parties (infamous article 356. Central Govt. can sack any state Govt. any time)... And they had to bow before people's wish...

Re: # 102; majumdar bhai,

i'll be brief; bedtime in my part of the world

The Great Soul was pandering, like all you guys are, to the 'needs' of these evil elements; I don't mind people practicing their religion but having 'personal/religious' laws for marriage/civil matters...common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture; that has to reflect the 'core' or 'essence' of what it means to be ...say Indian/English/German/Pakistani etc...that will remain so. Pakistan will remain a muslim majority country and the 'mainstream' will always reflect that. I am all for it.

problem arises when a minority, rather than playing ball, starts dictating....i leave you to draw your own conclusions here..

Yes, MKG made mistakes; he equated pandering to the needs of minorities to 'enlightenment' and 'modernism'; but give the guy a break; he was an honest man.

Au contraire, MAJ was an opportunist of the highest order. If he was made PM of a 'united India', all would have been fine from his POV! that was clearly impracticle, despite what you might say...

I standby what I said; if he had lived 10-20 years, the 'mullahs' would have seen through him....and whatever you do, DONOT underestimate 'the mullah'; remember they got a 'sharaabi/kabaabi' ZAB to declare the 'ahmedis' murtid!

Just think about it, without YLH's brain please, for a few minutes and then see if you come up with the same conclusions. Foget MKG, but don't put all your eggs in MAJ's basket either!

btw: 'enemy' is 'the other/alternative', fullstop. (In the US they call it period but I am British!)

Cheema sahib,

Re: 101

The guy who "involved the religious element in politics right from the word go" was not MAJ (pbuh) but the Great Soul himself. It was he who encouraged the Moplahs to run riot all over the place, it was he who brought the bearded mullahs centre stage through the Khilafat movement.

You must read YLH's posts on this.

Regards

PS: By the way who is the "enemy" that you are referring to.

Re: # 100; majumdar bhai

unfortunately you'd been had by the enemy before I met you! never mind.

I accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Unfortunately, MAJ (mostly un-knowingly I admit - he was such a fool in religious matters!) involved the religious element in politics right from the word go; all those speeches about the first muslim/qasim business, what did he (or you or any one else) expect after all that?

Religion is a virus of the mind; lets be clear on that. It is extremely contagious and virulent and turns perfectly rational beings into robots. When you open this can, all the worms/badness spills out. No one remains incharge anymore.

If MAJ had lived for another 10-20 years, we (the Pakistanis) would have sorted him out ourselves!!

Cheema sahib,

(you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!)

Now, since you have raised MAJ (pbuh) I can only say that if Pakistan had followed in his footsteps, it would not be in the shape it is in today.

Regards

Re: # 98; majumdar bhai
"If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is."

you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!

LOL!!!!

Masadi sahib,

(By increasing employment)

For increasing employment you dont need to set up steel mills or the like. You can just go on endlessly digging ditches and filling them up later. There was a joke in Mongolia (I hope you are not averse to a little humour), there was a factory which used to produce nothing worth selling. A guys aksed the manager what does the factory produce. The manager replied "It produces socialism".

(Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen)

If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is.

As I have told you b4, may you Pakis be blessed with ZABs, let us Bhindis be content with a series of dullards like PVNR and MMS.

Regards

Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen, a socialistically set up economy is the ONLY way for the masses in this country to rise up and get rid of their shackles and slavery- capitalist thugs that drain the country and suck on the blood of its people like Shaukat Aziz have demonstrated that growth figures when the wealth is going to a tiny elite and its foreign masters, mean absolutely nothing and indicate sh** about the well being of a nation's people.

You're also a foolish liar, meaning when you lie you do so in your usual fifth grade foolishness level and your dishonesty come through crystal clear....

Majumdar writes "Surely these Japs and Koreans are not natural allies of the US ELITE "

That is why I say you're a fool (cant think beyond a fifth grader) and a liar (lie when you get caught). Both Korea and Japan are US occupied, natural ally or not, they are US through and through, and they have destroyed nothing regarding the US domination either in the economic sphere or the military sphere. The US heavily protected, state intervention based economy might have been prior to the NEW DEAL but if it was not for that, capitalism would have died its shallow death in the 1930s. Socialism and later militarism saved it and the purpose of their entire global shenanigans is to replace whatever socialism that has propped them up since the 1930s to militarized capitalism so the die hard fools that sloganeer about free enterprise while heavily advocating the state to pass laws they give them added advantage rail against social security and other programs. By increasing employment the nationalized industry indeed not only consolidates the wealth and ensures development of an infant industry it increases the share of the people in that wealth. Corruption is not only a problem in socialistically run societies, the US bureaucracy/corporate complex has produced corruption of scales no socialists country can ever dream of equating like the Savings and Loan and the current sub prime crisis, just one case of Enron is enough to discredit your BS...

ahmadmadani

I know you are a sensible pakistani. Here is a report on teh collapse of industry in pakistan

from dawn of today

Commercial activities in industrial areas thrive



By Aamir Shafaat Khan


KARACHI, April 21: The setting up of commercial units in Site and Korangi industrial areas is gaining momentum as owners are either renting out their existing units or selling them out for trading activities.

However, the F.B. Area and North Karachi industrial areas have not witnessed any such activity.

When the industrialists feel that their production operations have turned unprofitable they prefer to commercialise their units by giving them on rent or selling for a handsome amount. These also include units closed for many months.

The sprawling commercial activities in Site industrial area, includes opening of warehouses and godowns, CNG and petrol filling stations, commercial offices and showrooms, and commercial banks, etc. Currently, around 120 of such commercial units have been set up replacing industrial units, while many other commercial units are in the offing.

Masadi sahib,

(All of those developed nations are standing today because of incorporating socialist principles like the New Deal in the US)

USA's industrial development started prior to the New Deal and it has to be said that free market democracies like USA have the capability to correct themselves. Which is more than can be said about Commie/Talibanist/Bhuttoist states.

Regards

Masadi sahib,

(the only difference is that when the state nationalizes the industry it gets for the public what was previously only given to the capitalist.)

No, sir. It does not get anything for the public. Very often the only people who benefit are the crooked ministers and bureaucrats who run the various economic ministries, which control the PSEs and their cohorts, the managers who run them. And few crumbs are thrown at the labour aristocrats who are employed.

The profits earned by these organisations is often made by exploiting control over natural resources or monopolies.

This is not to say that PSEs are all necessarily bad organisations or failures in competitive market places. Some PSEs in India have indeed survived even in reasonably competitive and open markets -BHEL for eg. But the bad apples far outnumber the good ones and the expereince of PSEs in sectors such as consumer goods, pharma and textiles is simply appalling.

(competitors of those that want to upset this order are destroyed in the name of national security.)

Japanese (and later Korean) automakers and electronics goods manufacturers have destroyed or weakened several American giants. How do you explain that? Surely these Japs and Koreans are not natural allies of the US ELITE that they were allowed to destroy the likes of Ford and Chrysler.

(Wake up fool, and don't be dishonest... )

A person can seldom be both simultaneously. Pls make up your mind as to whether I am a fool or a liar.

Regards

Majumdar writes " I think we have been talking at cross purposes."

No, you simply do not understand amid the propaganda of "free entreprise" that a state protected and manipulated industry for the sake of the capitalist (for free) is not a free entreprise, it is a public enterprise for all intents and purposes because without such help it would be nothing- the only difference is that when the state nationalizes the industry it gets for the public what was previously only given to the capitalist. All of those developed nations are standing today because of incorporating socialist principles like the New Deal in the US, without which they would have collapsed long ago, the free entreprise is baseless propaganda that exists not in reality but in the mythology of the capitalist as he enslaves humanity and takes away what is rightfully theirs, and the state as their partner in crime complies by breaking up unions and bailing out/protecting industry on the behalf of those capitalists and the military as another parter in ther affairs makes sure markets are open, resources are available and that competitors of those that want to upset this order are destroyed in the name of national security. Wake up fool, and don't be dishonest...

Masadi sahib,

I think we have been talking at cross purposes. I am talking about private enterprise led development and you are talking about nationalisation. Yes, all the developed nations did protect their nascent industry against foreign competition by high tariff barriers but how is that the same as Nationalisation/Socialism/Public Sector led growth.

The model of development followed by these countries has at least over a period of time brought a huge amount of prosperity to even the common man. Socialism has only spread misery and has broken down everywhere.

(The Himalayas wept when they murdered and they have continued to weep ever since... )

Good. At least that would have boosted the water levels in the Punjab rivers.

Regards

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