Benazir’s Legacy

peon writes "masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab, same as what you say here saab, over and over and over and over........."

You are copy pasting the same shit on multiple boards, like I said in response, you have not read a single book in your life because your masters wont let you they are mortally afraid of knowledge, so how can you comment on 5, moron.

Majumdar: I will begin my journey like the ZAB with a series of happy coincidences, until then I cannot make any moves so let me use this forum to inspire a few others who might be picked up as FM and can begin their jouney from there....it will happen with or without me in the near future....then will the people rejoice and the Himalayas will stop weeping.................

Re: # 117

masadi saab

masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab, same as what you say here saab, over and over and over and over.........and over again saab and when i think it is all over saab, it starts all over and over and over............and over...........

teeeeeedious saab

i have the medicine here saab

(unless a person who is an institution by himself meaning of such great charisma that he shatters the existing strucuture in the minds of the people comes to be, such people are few and far between, for most to become part of the system is to be coopted and help maintain the status quo...)

The subcontinent was blessed to have such a person in ZAB but sadly he was bumped off. Today we have another such charismatic personage, but he is too busy fighting off the " peons of the west" on chowk.com to change the status quo.

Regards

nkg writes "Regarding industrial revolution in Europe, there was no qualitative competetion offered by British colonies"

Of course there was, read the history of the textile industry, also read the British Protectionist Act of 1562

Regarding being part of the system to change it, the system changes the person not vice versa, unless a person who is an institution by himself meaning of such great charisma that he shatters the existing strucuture in the minds of the people comes to be, such people are few and far between, for most to become part of the system is to be coopted and help maintain the status quo...

Re: # 114
AKCheema..
Little more...large number of women were involved in this movement...it had not started with militancy...

Re: # 114
AKCheema...
Actually, the matter is something not straight.... Babri Mosque was not used as public place of worship....It was not used (by court order) for decades...When Rajiv Gandhi ordered to open it again for public use, some people used the Ramlala murti(idol) kept (the idol episode was during british period)...Babur, as per as North Indians are concerned, is treated as jihadi and looter and Ram is revered as God. So, people conscience does not hesitate to destroy a structure in the name of Babur and use it to build Ram temple...If it would have been some other functioning mosque, the episode would have been different. Police,court and once Govt. push the matter to sub-judice, you will not be able to do anything...Anyhow, the temple movement subsided now...before election VHP/BJP rake up the issue...but they are not able to create the same passion...Economy had taken centre-stage in people's mind ( Electricity-Water-Road-Shelter)...

Re: # 113; nkg sahib
"Ayodhya movement was not to target muslims. It was to construct Ram Temple in Ayodhya."

unfortunately one can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs

Re: # 109
AKCheema...
Ayodhya movement was not to target muslims. It was to construct Ram Temple in Ayodhya. The popularity of TV serial Ramayana was utilised by BJP. Telecasted in Hindi on national television. Except south India, entire indian populatin was hooked to it. When the matter of destruction of mosque had come (PVNR initialy offered land in different location in Ayodhya), muslims started opposing it. The resultant riots are related to that. If muslims had remained passive, the riots could have been avoided ( and obviously, if RSS/VHP wanted to construct temple in different site)...the bone of contention was whether the mosque was constructed over a temple...In India, there are instances where temple was destroyed and mosque was built ( Kashi and Mathura, where mosque and main temple complex share common wall)...As per my knowledge ( personal account), the riots in Bhagalpur and Meerat was mostly started in mixed areas by muslims. It spread like fire. When muslims started using arms against police and administration, police changed their focus from riots to muslims alone. The rest is well known...RSS is not engaged in explosive, fire arms training etc. like the mosques in Pakistan.At most RSS members carry stick.It is not underground organisation....

Re: # 110
Masadi...

This may be last in this regard...
If you feel the system is not proper, please be part of it to change it. The communist parties tried with the revolution theory and finally had to adopt the current electoral system in West Bengal,Kerala and Tripura. What the Naxalites are doing is just driven by similar sentiment. From outside, China looks good. But some day it will collapse, just like USSR. China can not sustain such kind of economic boom for long time. When the economic boom is over, it will be doomed. As per my understanding, Pakistan is not a prison state or like China. Army might have more that it's required share of voice in civil administration, but that can be changed.
Regarding industrial revolution in Europe, there was no qualitative competetion offered by British colonies. Though congress tried for "reject British goods", it had failed to work within common people. I think Tagore's "Nastaneer" ( English- Broken Nest) contains some of the contemporary realities in British India. Majumder may be able to comment on that...

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Re: # 108
AKCheema...
Gujrat episode is something different. The history of violence in Gujrat were prevalent and the polarisation was there due to deep suspicion amongst Gujratis and muslims. During British period, part of Gujrat was under muslim ruler. The ruler favoured the muslims during feuds. After partition, the ruler was stripped of his power by a Gujju called Ballabh Bhai Patel(he is hero within RSS fold for his BOLD step)...So, the separation was very much there for quite a long time...During 2002, after the train burning and the Kargil war ( fresh in mind), people sentiment was at it's peak...So, the barbarism reached to the highest level...the muslim casualty was quite high (more than 800) compared to Gujju one ( 200) for the first time... The bad effect of this riot is total segregation between Gujjus and muslims...Gujrati muslims were most progressive and integrated one...VHP used tribals to loot rich muslim's properties...Whatever happened in Gujrat was very bad...But it was supposed to happen...I don't know how Modi will tackle this situation...It will take time...
In the recent elections, BJP has performe very poor in riot affected areas...
I am staying in Bangalore and a Bengali...I eat non-veg...Culturally a local muslim (from Bangalore) is much acceptable than me...Similar story repeats in every state...The story of Gujrat and post Ayodhya riots are abberations...
Coming to integration, most of the muslims in India are integrated..Social backwardness is due to something different reason...more to follow.. Good night...

Re: # 106; nkg sahib

last post tonight, mainly because I don't want you guys to start killing people o'night and blame me tomorrow!

there has to be collectiveness and 'cohesiveness' amongst these cultures; bringing people together and NOT setting them apart. If a 'culture' is singled out, mainly because it is doing exactly that, then for god's sake talk about it! rather then bottling up the anger and killing a whole bunch of innocent people in gujarat or somewhere else.......problem with 'multi-culturalism' is, people become too politically correct; they don't want to challenge anything face to face. They bottle is up and ...boom...you have a Gujarat or Ayodhia or 9/11 or 7/7 before you know it!

That is what I am talking about sir..

Goodnight

Re: # 80
Majumder...

British, European, American and Japanese and Korean companies which made their countries economic powers were all private sector entities

Ans: US and EU countries were industrialised long back. They needed no protection. The difference between Western Countries and Asian countries were huge. Japan and Korea is US stooge and they were rewarded with the latest technology and investments...
China's progress is still driven by public sectors and subsidy....

AkCheema...
common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture;
Ans: India has more than 15 dominant cultural groups ( excluding muslims). What should we do? Try to destroy all these cultures, which people are practising for thousands of years? Already, imposition of Hindi as national language created strong discontent in Tamilnadu and other Southern States...Personal cultural practises, which does not violate constitution should be kept like that...There is nothing called mainstream culture in India. You have to learn English to interact with people of all the states on India...
India is kind of mini Europe...Each state in India celebrate their own new year...Even Karnataka has their own state flag (read and yellow, if you are watching IPL see the costume of Royal Challengers of Bangalore)...

Re: # 101
AkCheema

accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Ans: Pakistan was created in the name of religion. It was very difficult for MAJ to make it secular. If he had emphasised for regional parity, that would have been better. MAJ had not started Muslim league movement. It was the disgrunted muslims in East Bengal (Calcutta based upper caste Hindus used to exploit Bangladeshis to the extreame. The Nawab of Dhaka was almost powerless, but the elites in Calcutta used to enjoy the cream), who had started this movement. MAJ was kind of spokes person for the Muslim League. I don't think, he was ultimate decision maker. A person, brought up in Gujrat/Mumbai will start "direct action day" in Calcutta!!!!
Congress was initially elitist movement. Gandhi had brought masses in Congress fold.
Majumder, for human development socialist model is better than others.

Re: # 62
Masadi...

You do not participate in a farce setup by the military and its excrement after undemocratic manuvering like the emergency and the assassination of the leading party's leadership.

Ans: If you are not ready to be part of a system, then stop shouting. Military can rule forever, if people does not grab slightest of the opportunities, they are provided with. The way CPI(M) came to power in West Bengal after emergency (in India), was amazing. Whatever may be systematic lacuna, some point of time, that can be bridged with participation itself. The Congress had resorted to mal-practises against regional parties (infamous article 356. Central Govt. can sack any state Govt. any time)... And they had to bow before people's wish...

Re: # 102; majumdar bhai,

i'll be brief; bedtime in my part of the world

The Great Soul was pandering, like all you guys are, to the 'needs' of these evil elements; I don't mind people practicing their religion but having 'personal/religious' laws for marriage/civil matters...common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture; that has to reflect the 'core' or 'essence' of what it means to be ...say Indian/English/German/Pakistani etc...that will remain so. Pakistan will remain a muslim majority country and the 'mainstream' will always reflect that. I am all for it.

problem arises when a minority, rather than playing ball, starts dictating....i leave you to draw your own conclusions here..

Yes, MKG made mistakes; he equated pandering to the needs of minorities to 'enlightenment' and 'modernism'; but give the guy a break; he was an honest man.

Au contraire, MAJ was an opportunist of the highest order. If he was made PM of a 'united India', all would have been fine from his POV! that was clearly impracticle, despite what you might say...

I standby what I said; if he had lived 10-20 years, the 'mullahs' would have seen through him....and whatever you do, DONOT underestimate 'the mullah'; remember they got a 'sharaabi/kabaabi' ZAB to declare the 'ahmedis' murtid!

Just think about it, without YLH's brain please, for a few minutes and then see if you come up with the same conclusions. Foget MKG, but don't put all your eggs in MAJ's basket either!

btw: 'enemy' is 'the other/alternative', fullstop. (In the US they call it period but I am British!)

Cheema sahib,

Re: 101

The guy who "involved the religious element in politics right from the word go" was not MAJ (pbuh) but the Great Soul himself. It was he who encouraged the Moplahs to run riot all over the place, it was he who brought the bearded mullahs centre stage through the Khilafat movement.

You must read YLH's posts on this.

Regards

PS: By the way who is the "enemy" that you are referring to.

Re: # 100; majumdar bhai

unfortunately you'd been had by the enemy before I met you! never mind.

I accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Unfortunately, MAJ (mostly un-knowingly I admit - he was such a fool in religious matters!) involved the religious element in politics right from the word go; all those speeches about the first muslim/qasim business, what did he (or you or any one else) expect after all that?

Religion is a virus of the mind; lets be clear on that. It is extremely contagious and virulent and turns perfectly rational beings into robots. When you open this can, all the worms/badness spills out. No one remains incharge anymore.

If MAJ had lived for another 10-20 years, we (the Pakistanis) would have sorted him out ourselves!!

Cheema sahib,

(you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!)

Now, since you have raised MAJ (pbuh) I can only say that if Pakistan had followed in his footsteps, it would not be in the shape it is in today.

Regards

Re: # 98; majumdar bhai
"If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is."

you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!

LOL!!!!

Masadi sahib,

(By increasing employment)

For increasing employment you dont need to set up steel mills or the like. You can just go on endlessly digging ditches and filling them up later. There was a joke in Mongolia (I hope you are not averse to a little humour), there was a factory which used to produce nothing worth selling. A guys aksed the manager what does the factory produce. The manager replied "It produces socialism".

(Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen)

If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is.

As I have told you b4, may you Pakis be blessed with ZABs, let us Bhindis be content with a series of dullards like PVNR and MMS.

Regards

Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen, a socialistically set up economy is the ONLY way for the masses in this country to rise up and get rid of their shackles and slavery- capitalist thugs that drain the country and suck on the blood of its people like Shaukat Aziz have demonstrated that growth figures when the wealth is going to a tiny elite and its foreign masters, mean absolutely nothing and indicate sh** about the well being of a nation's people.

You're also a foolish liar, meaning when you lie you do so in your usual fifth grade foolishness level and your dishonesty come through crystal clear....

Majumdar writes "Surely these Japs and Koreans are not natural allies of the US ELITE "

That is why I say you're a fool (cant think beyond a fifth grader) and a liar (lie when you get caught). Both Korea and Japan are US occupied, natural ally or not, they are US through and through, and they have destroyed nothing regarding the US domination either in the economic sphere or the military sphere. The US heavily protected, state intervention based economy might have been prior to the NEW DEAL but if it was not for that, capitalism would have died its shallow death in the 1930s. Socialism and later militarism saved it and the purpose of their entire global shenanigans is to replace whatever socialism that has propped them up since the 1930s to militarized capitalism so the die hard fools that sloganeer about free enterprise while heavily advocating the state to pass laws they give them added advantage rail against social security and other programs. By increasing employment the nationalized industry indeed not only consolidates the wealth and ensures development of an infant industry it increases the share of the people in that wealth. Corruption is not only a problem in socialistically run societies, the US bureaucracy/corporate complex has produced corruption of scales no socialists country can ever dream of equating like the Savings and Loan and the current sub prime crisis, just one case of Enron is enough to discredit your BS...

ahmadmadani

I know you are a sensible pakistani. Here is a report on teh collapse of industry in pakistan

from dawn of today

Commercial activities in industrial areas thrive



By Aamir Shafaat Khan


KARACHI, April 21: The setting up of commercial units in Site and Korangi industrial areas is gaining momentum as owners are either renting out their existing units or selling them out for trading activities.

However, the F.B. Area and North Karachi industrial areas have not witnessed any such activity.

When the industrialists feel that their production operations have turned unprofitable they prefer to commercialise their units by giving them on rent or selling for a handsome amount. These also include units closed for many months.

The sprawling commercial activities in Site industrial area, includes opening of warehouses and godowns, CNG and petrol filling stations, commercial offices and showrooms, and commercial banks, etc. Currently, around 120 of such commercial units have been set up replacing industrial units, while many other commercial units are in the offing.

Masadi sahib,

(All of those developed nations are standing today because of incorporating socialist principles like the New Deal in the US)

USA's industrial development started prior to the New Deal and it has to be said that free market democracies like USA have the capability to correct themselves. Which is more than can be said about Commie/Talibanist/Bhuttoist states.

Regards

Masadi sahib,

(the only difference is that when the state nationalizes the industry it gets for the public what was previously only given to the capitalist.)

No, sir. It does not get anything for the public. Very often the only people who benefit are the crooked ministers and bureaucrats who run the various economic ministries, which control the PSEs and their cohorts, the managers who run them. And few crumbs are thrown at the labour aristocrats who are employed.

The profits earned by these organisations is often made by exploiting control over natural resources or monopolies.

This is not to say that PSEs are all necessarily bad organisations or failures in competitive market places. Some PSEs in India have indeed survived even in reasonably competitive and open markets -BHEL for eg. But the bad apples far outnumber the good ones and the expereince of PSEs in sectors such as consumer goods, pharma and textiles is simply appalling.

(competitors of those that want to upset this order are destroyed in the name of national security.)

Japanese (and later Korean) automakers and electronics goods manufacturers have destroyed or weakened several American giants. How do you explain that? Surely these Japs and Koreans are not natural allies of the US ELITE that they were allowed to destroy the likes of Ford and Chrysler.

(Wake up fool, and don't be dishonest... )

A person can seldom be both simultaneously. Pls make up your mind as to whether I am a fool or a liar.

Regards

Majumdar writes " I think we have been talking at cross purposes."

No, you simply do not understand amid the propaganda of "free entreprise" that a state protected and manipulated industry for the sake of the capitalist (for free) is not a free entreprise, it is a public enterprise for all intents and purposes because without such help it would be nothing- the only difference is that when the state nationalizes the industry it gets for the public what was previously only given to the capitalist. All of those developed nations are standing today because of incorporating socialist principles like the New Deal in the US, without which they would have collapsed long ago, the free entreprise is baseless propaganda that exists not in reality but in the mythology of the capitalist as he enslaves humanity and takes away what is rightfully theirs, and the state as their partner in crime complies by breaking up unions and bailing out/protecting industry on the behalf of those capitalists and the military as another parter in ther affairs makes sure markets are open, resources are available and that competitors of those that want to upset this order are destroyed in the name of national security. Wake up fool, and don't be dishonest...

Masadi sahib,

I think we have been talking at cross purposes. I am talking about private enterprise led development and you are talking about nationalisation. Yes, all the developed nations did protect their nascent industry against foreign competition by high tariff barriers but how is that the same as Nationalisation/Socialism/Public Sector led growth.

The model of development followed by these countries has at least over a period of time brought a huge amount of prosperity to even the common man. Socialism has only spread misery and has broken down everywhere.

(The Himalayas wept when they murdered and they have continued to weep ever since... )

Good. At least that would have boosted the water levels in the Punjab rivers.

Regards

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#23 Posted by Cindy on April 11, 2003 8:38:18 am
Tamed32:
You sound like President Bush when you say I should be silent. He would also have us that dissent with his war be silent. Media shows that since there are many many more here in the US who do think just like me and not too much about it on the news.

Why are Iraqi`s jumping in the streets? The natural euphoria when a war ends. Afghani`s did the same thing. Are they dancing now?
http://www.chowk.com/interacts/6061/2/0/8#130352


this is too much fun........

I was reading the 2003 interacts on Feroz's article titled the Wages of Death and two posters (both clueless) emerged as enlightened as they are today.....and that is not very!. Let me reproduce their interacts here

#4 Posted by Romair on April 8, 2003 8:44:21 pm
I think Bush will become more popular in the USA and not less popular, once this war is over (which should be another few weeks or so

Tahmed cheerleading for the barbarous war and abusing Feroz :

#15 Posted by tahmed32 on April 9, 2003 2:17:10 pm
F Khan: I see you are having trouble rationalizing this war. Perhaps you should ask the Iraqis who were cheering in the streets of Baghdad today. And throwing their shoes at Saddam`s statue.

PS: Glad you have silent partners. Seems like they are as confused with reality as you are.

17 Posted by tahmed32 on April 9, 2003 5:40:45 pm
Cindy #16 You must be F Khan`s silent partner. You were better off remaining silent.

You make a lengthy post and make big assertions, like F Khan. But nothing you or F Khan have written can explain the joy the Iraqis demonstrated on the streets of Baghdad. The term ``Iraqi Freedom`` for this campaign explains that joy very well.
---------

http://www.chowk.com/interacts/6061/2/0/8#130352


Now when the fool tahmed is told that he supported this US barbarism against Iraq, wrote an dimwit article supporing it and used the third rate lies of Bush regarding freedom to support it, he says SHOW ME. And everytime I show this fool something he puts his damn stinking tail between his spineless legs and runs off.....people like him are the worst among humanity, they drink the blood of the people, they are worse than the worst criminal....

when they murdered ZAB

majumdar writes "Completely untrue. British, European, American and Japanese and Korean companies which made their countries economic powers were all private sector entities"

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. All of those countries heavily protected their industry unlike the "liberalization" and specialization in primary products they push on developing nations- there is no other way to develop an industrial base and like I explained to you earlier government protection of industry for the sake of the capitalist is similar in principle to government nationalization of industry for the benefit of the workers- who benefits is the only difference and nationalization is a juster option- why should the people's wealth through the govt be spent to bail out industry for the capitalists to protect them and then not give people a share by extra employment?

ZAB was not brought to "justice"- no court of law would uphold that kangaroo verdict, and no foreign observers present including the ex US attorney general agreed with the guilty verdict. The Himalayas wept when they murdered and they have continued to weep ever since...

Re: # 82

thank you majamidar saab. Baangladaishis are no one's friends saab but i still donot want them to die saab(despite what i have said before saab). i will go now saab and keep an eye on masadi saab. i think masadi saab needs treatment saab but he does not listen saab

Peon bhai,

Dunno if Himalayas wept when ZAB was brought to justice. But they are certainly weeping at the global warming. That will bring floods and later drought to North Indians/Pakis. And your Bangaldeshi friends will drown in it.

Regards

Re: # 80

majamidar saab, masadi saab says(indeed when they murdered ZAB the Himalayas cried)

do you think that will make the global warming thing worse majamidar saab? with the melting ice saab

Masadi sahib,

(socalistically set up industry with a greater share of it for the people is the way that all the tigers and China developed its base, it is the way in which the European as well as the American industry developed)

Completely untrue. British, European, American and Japanese and Korean companies which made their countries economic powers were all private sector entities. Yes there was participation of ordinary folks but as workers and as shareholders.

(indeed when they murdered ZAB the Himalayas cried)

Nice to know that you have a poetic side as well!!!

Regards

forcibly evicted

HP writes "The movements like the Lawyers movement, out of control media and a vigilant middle class can keep the army honest..."

The army if it remains in the power equation will never become "honest" unless they are forcible evicted. The only thing that can keep them somewhat decent are their masters in Washington, who are now realzinging that the circumscribed democracy in the shadow of the military is the best arrangement for them...

Ijaz, I posted this on the other board.

#502 Posted by ijaz_gul

Sorry, I did not read this post on Beena's board. I haven't seen many posts on that board. I will check them now.

A. Will BBs policy of Partial appeasement, partial defiance and partial compromise serve the cause of democracy in the long run, or will it provide a germination ground for the proliferators of democracy to become stronger? This view is in contrast to the Purist view of the intellectuals.

There is no way to democracy in Pakistan w/o first working on sharing the powers with the army. So this half cil-Half Mil is the starting point. BB had the right idea. The problem is that the military half is stronger and there is no guarantee that the military would not revoke the agreement. The movements like the Lawyers movement, out of control media and a vigilant middle class can keep the army honest. This requires time and an effort on the part of the civilians to keep the public in the loop. Both AZ and NS, have very little faith in organized opposition such as the Lawyers, and the student bodies. Zardari, when he bad mouths the Lawyers is actually digging his own grave.

B. Will the purist view of Civil Society supported by NS and AWK finally become a victim of the compromises by PPPP.

They don’t support the purest view or know they can’t get to it. The PPP has a situation in hand in Sindh and it is not the MQM. Read Zadari’s statement to BBC where he said that the PPP was told they would be confined to Sindh and they are. The PPP cares about Sindh because that is their base and to keep the power in Sindh, they will compromise with the devil itself. As long as the deal with the NS works, the PPP is with him. I think the forward Block in MLq minus Gujrati clown family offers an option to the PPP so watch NS destroy that with multiple means.

C. If the first two points are accepted, then we would soon see crisis within the ruling alliance. This alliance will be exploited by proliferators for destabilising. Niazi, Arbab, Multan, Karachi and now Jamrud incidents are perhaps linked to this destabilisation effort.

The army would do what it can to keep the alliance in a fragile state while they concede on CJ and next on Musharaf. It is a matter of who has the ability to press. NS wants to press now and AZ is too embroiled in keeping the power. He will go along when he sees a clear signal or is pressed enough.

The democracy requires lots of thinking and persuasions. Time is needed to learn these skills. The army makes it difficult and now everyone has to be on a fast track to learn these skills. So just watch the game!

ahamadmadani,

As a proud pakistani, as a true citizen of the islamic republic of pakistan, where the sharia law is the supreme, where as you quoted nuclear armed missiles are poised to uphold the islamic laws of pakistan, please do condemn the following lines, from dawn of today, opinion piece.

P)lease do remember that teh sharia court of pakistan can any day declare the blasphemy laws as illegal, but has upheld it every time it was challenged. Do not blame the poor zia, blame the supreme law of pakistan, if you choose..

/////////////////////////

Leaving the schism of it all aside, the law of blasphemy as it operates in Pakistan is brutalising society. A number of people have been killed, as was Jagdeesh, in cold blood, in sudden rage, or in the calculated pursuit of vendetta. It is also dehumanising the custodians of the law. No remorse is expressed, condolences extended or compensation paid to Jagdeesh’s heirs. No policeman has been punished for not rescuing him from the clutches of the mob.

As Faiz said, the blood of the poor dead mingles with the very dust in which they are reared. It mingles faster when it is of an infidel and spilled by the faithful. The brutality of it aside, Pakistan will remain a reactionary pariah of the world so long as the penal religious laws enacted by Ziaul Haq remain in our statute books.

Madani,

If you live in Karachi, it must be a great place. The jihadis steal the car, and if they are tracked and stopped, they booby trap the car and kill the recovery team.

One cannot expect anything different where k for kafir education and hatred is the social norm.


Hijacked cars


INCIDENTS of carjacking at gunpoint have become an everyday event in the country, especially in big cities. Criminals take away an average of 30 to 40 cars and motorcycles every day in Karachi alone. They now prefer hijacking cars at gunpoint, using force rather than stealing it, because of the sophistication and prevalence of new anti-theft devices and alarm systems. Car alarms and steering wheel locking systems have made it tougher for auto thieves.

Chip-integrated ignition switches, engine cutoff devices and vehicle tracking systems, though quite expensive, are getting popular among car owners day by day. On the other hand, carjackers and car thieves are also becoming wise in countering such devices and systems.

Once the ‘vehicle tracking system’ detects a snatched car and the vehicle tracking control cuts off its engine, the panicked carjackers are forced to abandon the car wherever it is, and flee. But some time in frustration they can also set a booby trap or a remote-controlled bomb/explosive device in the car to destroy it and also to kill the people who will reach there to recover the car.

Madani swaab,

When jinnah coined the TNT, his notion was only that muslims cannot live with the hindus. he created a cleansed land called pakistan. Little did he know that such a hate filled nation will not be allowed to exist "freely". It will always be controlled.

Now the americans are attacking the pakistanis, so much for the freedom, so much for a mulsim land.

Read the new item below, and of you come across a photo of than man, first spit on it and then burn it,

from jang of today


US commanders for widening Pakistan attacks

Sunday, April 20, 2008
WASHINGTON: A report in the New York Times says that American commanders in Afghanistan have in recent months urged a widening of the war that could include American attacks on indigenous Pakistani militants in the tribal areas inside Pakistan, according to United States officials.

bad news for enemies of pakistan and Arjun,JAYP, Laddu bad news limited.
Now you cab boast any thing but mr Z can ask his chaprasee to press button and you can not hide any where in india with 2000 KM range. You people abused neighbour who is is interested in Solving K problem for good with nagotations.
Now how about missile lesson.

"Pakistan tests long-range ballistic missile ISLAMABAD, April 19 (Reuters): Pakistan successfully test fired a long-range, nuclear-capable ballistic missile on Saturday, the military said. “The missile Hatf-VI (Shaheen-2) has a range of 2000 km and can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads,” the military said in a statement.Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani watched the test of the surface-to-surface missile and congratulated engineers and scientists for achieving an “important milestone” in Pakistan's quest for sustaining strategic balance in South Asia, it said. The military cited Gilani as saying the missile and nuclear programme enjoyed complete national consensus and would continue to be consolidated and strengthened. “He made it clear that Pakistan's strategy of credible minimum deterrence is fully in place and is a guarantee of peace in the region,” the military said. Gilani also gave an assurance that the country's defence needs would remain a high priority with the elected government, the military said. (First Posted @ 10:00 PST, Updated @ 10:45 PST)"

BAD NEWS COMPANY DIRCTORS CEO's READ and WEEP. Sorry but wise people do not spread bnad news.

Re: # 71 Well said mr. Masadi. new wine in same old bottle.

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Very simplistic, toned down and honky dory version of events displayed by the author. Tullen visioned approach to the unfolding events can never lead to a wider vision of the environment.
Kamran

Masadi,

Cut the following report, stick it in your room and shed a tear each day for the false promises that your politicians give, shed a tear for teh stupidity of the paki politician, they do not know that hoodood ordinance is per the book, and it has been upheld several times by the sharia court as islamic.


PPP to repeal Hudood ordinances
Women to have 20pc job quota in government

Saturday, April 19, 2008
By our correspondent

Karachi

The Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) will repeal the discriminatory Hudood Ordinances and increase the job quota up to 20 percent for women in government services, claimed Shehla Raza, Deputy Speaker, Sindh Assembly. She was speaking during a session at a two-day training workshop ‘News documentary on Human Rights based issues’ organised by the Women Media Centre at a local hotel on Friday.

Re: # 50

masadi,

This time you have quoted a total dimwit. What you have quoted is a totological statement, some thing like " if one removes the elements of fame, then that person will not be a celebrity, if you remove the instruments of power from a person, then he will not be a powerful person...etc.

Masadi, stick to your own words, they are always better...follow the leader..

Leave quoting of others to tahmed and the ylh

Re 49: Masadi says, "By the constraints and requirements of the institutions that have shaped and selected him. Remove a man from the institution that defines him, the CEO from the corporation, the General from the military and see how he becomes nothing, with a character to match..."

Wrong! How can you separate a person's character from his/her actions? Institutions bear a leader's specific stamp of character, particularly those in it's infancy which are sired by very powerful men take on an absolute hue of the authority that shapes them up. Being borne and bred into wealth and celebrity, as the quotes you have used from CW Mills might be different than nurturing and bringing up institutions.

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Nkg writes "Ans: Beena, this is very much true. Unless an untill you keep faith in participation, you will always be looser and blame others... "

You do not participate in a farce setup by the military and its excrement after undemocratic manuvering like the emergency and the assassination of the leading party's leadership. You do not participate in a farce that is designed to coopt the people's sentiments that would have forced change otherwise by these distractions, and you do not participate in a farce which is designed to salvage the military in the eyes of the people, and strenghten its excrement. By becomming part of a corrupt establishment you become corrupt yourself and history has proven that until and unless you face unique events which describe the movement of the ZAB and are as charismatic as him to be a competing institution to the one set up by the thugs. Indeed when they murdered ZAB the Himalayas wept....

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BENAZIR....THE LEGEND

M Waqar
I was shocked, disheartened and saddened by awful news of Benazir Bhutto’s murder and with her of many others. Benazir wanted freedom for her country and democracy, freedom to choose the leader of Jinnah’ s Pakistan. Democracy is the important part of freedom and letting the people to choose their leader, whom they want to represent them. Ms Bhutto’s murder shows that she was close to cutting the ties that the terrorist held against nation wanting democracy and freedom of its people. The murder of this great lady shows how coward these terrorists really are. They run and hide like dogs with their tails between their legs. Hide in rat holes and hide their faces, In the name of Allah terrorists do terrible things that Allah is actually against. The Quran is the word of the Lord of the Worlds, which Allah revealed to His Messenger Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), to bring mankind forth from darkness into light.” I think Ms Bhutto was doing that herself, bringing people out of the darkness into the light of a free world where basic needs should be met, plenty of food, warm shelter and clean water to drink. She was an extraordinary lady. We need to salute the extraordinary courage, determination and fortitude exhibited by Benazir Bhutto in the face of overwhelming odds. Human beings of lesser endowments would have long since taken to safer avenues. She faced all the tribulations following her father’s hanging with determination, and had only Pakistan’s interest on her mind. Benazir Bhutto’s tragic assassination has brutally highlighted the growing influence of inhuman terrorists in Pakistan. Let us be clear that these extremists are a clear and present danger to not just Pakistan, but the whole world. These cowards will be judged not just in the afterlife, but also in this world. While Ms Bhutto will live on in the hearts and minds of millions, these terrorists will be cursed forever. Her death is a sad indicator of how dangerous it has become in this country to be a liberal and a moderate. Religious extremism that leads to such blatant violence. She was killed by fierce, brutal, cruel ,ignorant person. These barbaric practices of Al-qaeda are unacceptable in civilized world. She was a brave woman, who did not hide in rat holes like Osama, mullah omar and his cronies, she had courage and like her father was not afraid of death. Benazir Bhutto was a sign of hope not only for the country but also for the women who saw in her a saviour. If we look at paki history, non of paki leaders enjoyed respect, the ones who were real, sincere, people of principles. There are stories about the death of Jinnah, Fatima Jinnah, Liaquat Ali Khan, Z A Bhutto and now his daughter, Benazir murdered in cold blood, her entire family wiped out by two generals. The story of Bhutto family can be compared to Kennedys of America and Gandhis of India. Its a conspiracy against Bhutto family. Benazir was champion of progressive politics. None of paki politicians can match her and Z A Bhutto charisma, talent and quality of leadership. Taliban, the Al Qaeda and other extremist groups have achieved their target to Talibanise Pakistan by killing Benazir. Today in Pakistan, educated, moderate class is ignoring this danger, leaders of progressive parties are just watching events unfolding from their drawing rooms, they even don’t have courage to say something, they are afraid of death, the Death Benazir welcomed. She was a legend. She could stay in London, New York and Dubai, she gained more respect and honour on foreign soils, she was not a fashion show model, movie star, singer but was a woman, who cared about her country, who knew the miseries of her people, she knew people in her country have no rights, education, freedom. She was invited to deliver lectures in USA and Europe, was not that an honour for Pakistan? During my 21 year stay in USA ,I never seen anyone so disgusted and sad about the murder of Benazir. New York is a place where you can meet anyone from any part of the world, from asia to Africa to Europe, its amazing that people in USA were glued to tv news and watching coverage of this horrible crime committed by Musharraf security agencies through talibans and al-qeada. If anyone finds out, you are from Pakistan, there first question is why this happened? why they killed Benazir? Does women have no rights in Pakistan? is it OK to kill women in Pakistan? that’s what Islam teach? She was killed because muslims don’t like women in power? These are the questions Pakistanis are trying to answer all over the world in free societies. Does anyone not believe that Musharraf’s security forces are secretly supporting al-Qaeda in Pakistan? Does anyone not believe that Musharraf wanted Bhutto dead, and saw her as a threat to his own dictatorship? Bhutto symbolizes the freedom that every woman in the Islamic World strives to achieve, a freedom from male dominated Talibanistic tyrants like Musharraf who is trying to play both sides of the fence to preserve his own dictatorship. It's a coward and a barbarian who stalks and kills someone who thinks differently. It is not a brave martyr, but a coward. Musharraf did not conduct investigations of last attempt on her life in Karachi. Benazir openly said that Ch. Wajahat Hussain and Ch. Pervez Elhi and intelligence agency were behind her assassination attempt. Musharraf refused to accept her demand of bringing investigators from US. Musharraf knows killers, Ijazul-Haq and his Al-qeada buddies are mastermind of this murder. International news agencies are reporting that SSG Commandos killed PPP Chief Benazir Bhutto, What was the crime of Bhutto family??? Z A BHUTTO’s crime was to make Pakistan a nuclear power, to unite muslim world, what was the crime of Benazir ??? The attack at Rawalpindi bore the hallmarks of a sophisticated military operation. Al-qeada is a ‘’B ’’ team of Musharraf, he can’t be trusted, that’s the reason I wrote an article published in Frontier Post earlier this year (Deal or No Deal), I knew Benazir was trapped by generals. This general is taking billions of dollars from USA and is also negotiating and shaking hands with Taliban. Who knows if Osama and his cronies are hiding somewhere. Lets look at this murder from another point of view, as we know Mush-regime is getting billions of dollars from USA to fight against Al-qeada, we know where that money is going and this regime was afraid of that if Benazir gets power she might disclose to the world how Mush and his cronies used that money, to hide Mush regime crimes and Choudries of Punjab’s corruption. Benazir Bhutto was fearful for her life that she tried to hire British and American security experts to protect her, according to The Sunday Telegraph. But the plans collapsed because Musharraf refused to allow the foreign contractors to operate in Pakistan, when there are terrorist threats, security paraphernalia prevents leaders from mixing with their followers. Pakistani authorities have pressured the medical personnel who tried to save Benazir Bhutto's life to remain silent about what happened in her final hour and have removed records of her treatment from the facility, so this clearly shows that Mush is involved in her murder, doctors who were at Bhutto's side at Rawalpindi General Hospital said they were under extreme pressure not to share details about the nature of the injuries that the opposition leader suffered in an attack here Dec. 27. Pindi is a city that serves as headquarters of the Pakistani military and if citizens and important public figures can be killed in that sensitive city then what that tells u???? Only a professional person can murder someone like this, trained by military. The truth is, Mush regime is not doing any investigation as it did not when she was attacked in October. Ms Bhutto was a brave leader who gave priority to meeting people at the cost of security risks, and paid a heavy price for this.

Mwaqar

Beena,
I would agree with your argument that the CJ Issue provided the Lawyers, Civil Society and Political Parties to coalesce. This is in fact the trigger and not the start point. Some of the developments we must lookout for are: -
A. Will BBs policy of Partial appeasement, partial defiance and partial compromise serve the cause of democracy in the long run, or will it provide a germination ground for the proliferators of democracy to become stronger. This view is in contrast to the Purist view of the intellectuals.
B. Will the purist view of Civil Society supported by NS and AWK finally become a victim of the compromises by PPPP.
C. If the first two points are accepted, then we would soon see crisis within the ruling alliance. This alliance will be exploited by proliferators for destabilising. Niazi, Arbab, Multan, Karachi and now Jamrud incidents are perhaps linked to this destabilisation effort.
The road is indeed difficult and the summit to democracy steep. In my view, PPPP has missed a chance for true democracy. They have returned from the brink of a revolution.
Cheerios

Re: # 6
Jayp..
US seeks direct access to Pak's nuke arsenal

Ans: Nuke can not save a nation. Russia was very powerful militarily. USA have never dared to attack USSR. But it disintegrated due to it's own internal problems. Now, what nuke will do, if Pakistan is crumbling internally. USA attacked Iraq and may attack Iran for the sake Saudi Arabia and Israel. There is no conflict of interest between Pakistan and USA. So, Pakistan do not need any nuke to protect from USA. India's nuke program is mainly aimed at China and so, USA is trying to help India. If Pakistan want's to be a pet dog of China, they need nuke. USA can help build a nation without providing much money. They have the skill and technology.

Had she not convinced Sharif to participate in the elections that he had been planning to boycott, Pakistan would not today be witnessing this transition to democracy.

Ans: Beena, this is very much true. Unless an untill you keep faith in participation, you will always be looser and blame others...

Nkg,

(What Mr. Jinnah can expect, when he created a state in the name of Islam?)

MAJ (pbuh) created Pakistan for the sake of Injun Muslims, not for Islam per se.

(his had not created any environment to make Pakistan a moderate state...)

He never had the time. He died within a year of Partition.

(...Still these countries progressed better than many countries in nothern europe due to its social culture...)

Japan is not too corrupt by any standards. And on waht basis are you saying that Russia and Italy have done better than North Europeans.

(ZAB was the best PM for Pakistan... )

He destroyed Pakistan's economy. I presume that makes him a good PM in your eyes. By the same logic you wud think that JLN and Indira were good PMs.

Regards

Some commented about drinking alcohol...Alcohol is not harmful and is used in medicine for long time. Tobaco is carcinogenic and that is bad for health...

Re: # 18
majumder..
What Mr. Jinnah can expect, when he created a state in the name of Islam? The malaise of Islam he was already aware of. How could he expect a state will suddenly change into liberal democratic society if it separates from India? The direct action day was his landmark achievement...So, Pakistan is witnessing another set of "direct action day" in Lal Masjid etc...Some lofty words does not make MAJ great/liberal ..his had not created any environment to make Pakistan a moderate state...He was not Ataturk...
As per my understanding, Benazir, like her father,was a socialist. She might not be successful, but must be far better than others in Pakistan...Now, when people like M K Naraynan brings out Benazir's involvement in fostering Jihadis; it was reality. She had no way could prevent it...
Corruption in high level is very common in Japan, Korea, Russia, Italy etc...Still these countries progressed better than many countries in nothern europe due to its social culture...Bhutto was never US stooge, and ZAB was the best PM for Pakistan...

Re: # 52 Mistake I was saying thank you mr.Masadi ( not madani)

Re: # 50 Great "quote". Thanks mr.Madani for giving verbatum words of mr. Mill.
Kindly write little few pages on life and works of mr. mills. Specially he did his when imprerial power were at at peak after and elites were thinking themselves as invincible.
Hope to read about life of this remarkable of thinkers from usa.

Arjun ,JAYP and bad news Inc.....Now read this and weep.
KSE reaches highest-ever peak of 15,622.30pts. Hope Delhi stock market does same. Good luck to your market.

Millions of people are getting better economically.

Zafar Ahmad

KARACHI: Karachi Share Market continued to depict bullish trend recording a further gain of 81.95 points, pushing the 100-price index to 15622.30 points.

The Thursday's index was the highest-ever recorded by the Share Market as the index on Wednesday was 15540.35 points.

The Share Market had been going steadily as it was daily the recording of higher points.

Similarly, the free-float (30-index) reported a gain of 47.59 as the index moved from 18948.74 points to 18996.33 points, citing a percentage of 0.25.

The stock analysts commended the working of the Karachi Share Market as the investors had been moving freely and investing according to their investment plans. The index today moved to 15622.30 points while it closed yesterday at 15540.35 points, depicting a net gain of 81.95 points.

The market had been enjoying 'boom' and it was attracting investors in a big way, the analysts concluded.

The ground realities continued unchanged. The Sindh Government has been inducted but minus MQM, which the politicians and the Karachiities felt awkward.

There had been whisperings about the Sindh Governor with the reports that the governor's powers have been clipped.

It was disturbing for the investors who think that the PPP must sort out a way to work with the MQM as it was in the larger interest of the people.

Similarly, investors feel that the increase in the petrol prices during the recent weeks was 'third' in a row which was definitely not in their interest and was bitterly criticised by the investors. Analysts opine that tomorrow will be the weekend sessions and hopefully there would be some new records, including the highest-ever records as the Share Market has been going strong, providing all the confidence to investors.

On Friday trading period, Pak ReInsur topped the list of the companies depicting highest increase in their rates, as it recorded an increase of Rs33.55, with the closing rates 705.10, followed by AKD Capital Ltd which reported a gain of Rs 29.95 with the closing rate 729.95. The loosers were led by Siemens Pakistan which sustained a loss of Rs 69, with the closing rate 1600.00, followed by Pak Engineering which suffered a loss of Rs 17.00 with the closing rate 343.00.

Nishat Mills topped the list of the companies which reflected significant turnover as it reported a turnover of 23,012,200, followed by DG Khan Cement 22,909,800, The Bank of Punjab16,167200, Bank Al-Falah 15,607,500, Engro Chemicals 12,965,000, Pak Oilfields 10,451,400, Azgard Nine 9,821,000, Pak PTA Ltd 9,329,500, Fauji Fert Bin 8,497,000, and lastly PTCLA 8,470,200. Similarly, the trading value also reported significant increase as it cited the figures as 4,779,585,815,565, while on Wednesday it was 4,753,427,987,958.

In future contracts, 27 companies reported gains, 13 sustained losses while 2 companies remained stable.

Senior broker, Ghani Bhai, opined that the Karachi Share Market had been moving "very soundly" and the investors were out to make some 'big investments.' The market has fully attained the much needed stability and now it was consolidating its position regularly. He hoped that the market would continue to behave in an orderly manner. The weekend session tomorrow will be 'very important' and may witness some more records.





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Miley to pen autobiography

Sports



Shoaib Akhtar arrives at NCA to face a tribunal hearing regarding ban on him

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Re: # 46 # 47

Media can do a lot, but cannot project character on somebody if it does not exist. And, how can we separate a person from his politics? The way a person conducts himself is also the way he would conduct his politics.

Re: # 41

1safe

I agree with regarding Reza Gilani's likeable personality, but would like to caution general perceptions are a fuunction of media representation and more importantly political decisions. Either of the two can change such perceptions very quickly, case in point Musharraf.

Re: # 41 You talk about bogus "adab".
Why not study postings by Mr.Masadi.
This pace in drama school for adab and Khandan but to deliver food, electricity and water to all "non Khandan" people.
Even after studying and reading by Masadi still he thinks new heaven has fallen on our land. All gullible worrying about "aadab and Khandan".

Re: # 41 You talk about bogus "adab".
Why not study postings by Mr.Masadi.
This pace in drama school for adab and Khandan but to deliver food, electricity and water to all "non Khandan" people.
Even after studying and reading by Masadi still he thinks new heaven has fallen on our land. All gullible worrying about "aadab and Khandan".

Re: # 43 Generally alcohol is bad but which is desi due to crazy stuff they put in. Most real foreign liquiors are different and they have reduced toxicity of alcohol and most poison is filterd through char coal and they use fresh waters from real springs iin scottland or in Russian vodaka ice frozen few thousand yeas ago from siberia. Now I read little foreign alcohol is ok as you reduce heart problems as that alcohol goes in vains and burns artitary blockage and once that blockage is removed then bood flows like big artillery shell and destroys blockage. But if you drink toomuch then blast can break artiries and you die. May be country can permit / allow people to drink if medical condition requires.

Re: # 42 Gopldfinger..... Please do not talk about ZAB like that. He was not hypocrite he use to drink , even QAMA use to drink good foreign liquiors so it used to help them. Now these are addictions and Initially ZAB use to drink alcohol as time passed alcohol began to drink him. He was sad about his drinking addiction. But he was honest about this. Once he said in message to people in lecture " Ha may Sharab pita hu but Ghuribonka khoon nahi pita". ( For urdu handicapped... Yes i am abuser of alcohol ( forbidden haram thing , in real ultra muslim countries you can get 50 hunter lashes) but i do not blood of poor pakistanies.

You have not understood what Mr. Masadi is saying so let me put for blinds.
Nothing has changed and usa is controlling and micromanaging.USA has economically made a slave country.
Only kings party has changed PML(q) is replaced with PPP and they scratch back of general and he keeps asif in good mood.
Mrs Bhutto's shahidat is bogus not like her father. Sne had accepted role as person protectiuing american interests and americans ordered for elections hopeing she will get post of PM and WOT will go on.
Now usa elites do not give damn to democracy so all feudals are in game , nothing has changed only poor PPP at bottom levels who suffer for family interests got nice shaft.
Look mr. Prachanda of Nepal totally rejected usa elites and never compromised and so he elected and change will affect. Now BB and company are corroupt company business similar to East India company and like Meer Jaffar and co , PPP leadership will do all to serve usa elites and save their skins and white wash all economic crimes. Just like in usa there are two parties just two groups with indentical ways. As usual bottom political activist suffer like donkeys for ungrateful masters. USA WOT will continue as they have put ropes of economic assistance to keep Pakistan down , it crime a asian giant nation is kept like lame by usa so pakistan govt can not rise to help its own people but is survile to American interests.
Hope people blinded with hatred against masadi think what he writes and forget all other of nonintellctual work. There some nasty people prone to provoke and blame masadi and even YLH. Just some peole want to divert attention to some trivial things. Good day.

Re: # 35

Religiosity, alcohol drinking, designer suit wearing stuff only becomes hypocrisy when you ban alcohol for every one else by official decree but continue drinking it yourself, for others you chant socialistic mantras, yet yourself live in utter luxuries...and sorry I'm not a retired army jerk either, just an innocent bystander who is on to every dirty trick played up by every charlatan upon this hapless populace...and I merely wish to assure you that no awakening of the people occurred, much that you must be fond of conspiracy theories...if it had things would be different now...and keep in mind that soldiers too are a part of this populace and not from Mars or Venus. I am sorry to say that the hero everyone is looking for hasn't arrived as yet.

Re: # 40

Couldn't agree more with this post!

Just wanted to add that Yusuf Raza Gilani is winning hearts with every gesture.
He is so full of tehzeeb and adab.
The more one sees and hears him, the more one is prone to like him.
He is such a real Pakistani.
Feel very optimistic!

Re: # 26

bulleya

{what has brought democracy back is the lawyers and media (students didn't do much)......specially the lawyers......and the defiance of the judiciary shown by resigning...}

Common perceptions drawn from media bites have very little to do with reality. Lets examine the facts.

1. Lawyers movement was limited to some cities in Punjab, rest of the country was either lukewarm or totally oblivious of a few protests here and there.

2. Day BB arrived she was greeted by her people, the voters of this country in the hundred of thousands. That was also the day of the first assassination attempt that saw 150 people being killed.

3. Thanks to BB and her political adviser Hussein Haqqani they were successful in garnering enough political support in Washington to persuade Musharraf to (a) hold fair and free elections (b) relinquish his uniform.

4. Assassination of BB was seen as a total failure of the Government i.e., PML-Q and Musharraf, particularly in Punjab where people came out and voted against Musharraf & Company, since Asif Zardari was unpopular they voted for the other party in the fray, PML-N.

Had it not been BB, NS had decided to boycott the elections, it was her initiative and principled stand to contest elections which not only saved Punjoos ass but was the main reason we have semblance of democracy in Pakistan.

{this can be seen by the fact that nawaz sharif arrived in pakistan the day his party was to file papers....2/3rd of his party had left him and joined pml-q.....him and shahbaz were disqualified.....he put up candidates at the last minute....and still won big......}

Do you have any idea how much money was poured by NS and company? Saudis were extremely generous to their illegitimate child and according to insiders these guys pumped $50MM of Saudi money in the election campaign.

Give some time for the people to settle down and allow democracy to flourish and you will see how quickly this new demi god comes crumbling down.

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Re: # 29 Dear Masadi, first I must make very clear that I'm the furthest thing from a Mullah you will ever come across, so I can never write like one. Second, since you are in denial mode you keep dismissing all my valid points as idiosyncrasies of the great people's leader, however having a hand in the dismemberment of one's country, planning murder of political foes, jailing and punishing others, misuse of public property, funds and personnel, rigging of elections, hypocrisy and otherwise just doing diddly crap for the people that you purportedly are trying to empower are not idiosyncrasies but serious character flaws, which could be pretty damning against any leader, even more so one that some are bandying as the greatest in the Third World.

#32 Posted by masadi on April 16, 2008 4:48:11 am


Islam grants maximum freedom to the individual


This is where I bring up the fact that saudi women aren't allowed to drive and have a bunch of other restrictions....and then you tell me it's only that way because of the US elite...

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From book to transcripts

All through the interacts on chowk, there is a recurring menti