Benazir’s Legacy

Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen, a socialistically set up economy is the ONLY way for the masses in this country to rise up and get rid of their shackles and slavery- capitalist thugs that drain the country and suck on the blood of its people like Shaukat Aziz have demonstrated that growth figures when the wealth is going to a tiny elite and its foreign masters, mean absolutely nothing and indicate sh** about the well being of a nation's people.

Masadi sahib,

(By increasing employment)

For increasing employment you dont need to set up steel mills or the like. You can just go on endlessly digging ditches and filling them up later. There was a joke in Mongolia (I hope you are not averse to a little humour), there was a factory which used to produce nothing worth selling. A guys aksed the manager what does the factory produce. The manager replied "It produces socialism".

(Bhutto was the greatest leader this nation has seen)

If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is.

As I have told you b4, may you Pakis be blessed with ZABs, let us Bhindis be content with a series of dullards like PVNR and MMS.

Regards

Re: # 98; majumdar bhai
"If ZAB is the best that Pakistan had, it is no wonder Pakistan is in the state it is."

you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!

LOL!!!!

Cheema sahib,

(you keep forgetting MAJ(pbuh)!!)

Now, since you have raised MAJ (pbuh) I can only say that if Pakistan had followed in his footsteps, it would not be in the shape it is in today.

Regards

Re: # 100; majumdar bhai

unfortunately you'd been had by the enemy before I met you! never mind.

I accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Unfortunately, MAJ (mostly un-knowingly I admit - he was such a fool in religious matters!) involved the religious element in politics right from the word go; all those speeches about the first muslim/qasim business, what did he (or you or any one else) expect after all that?

Religion is a virus of the mind; lets be clear on that. It is extremely contagious and virulent and turns perfectly rational beings into robots. When you open this can, all the worms/badness spills out. No one remains incharge anymore.

If MAJ had lived for another 10-20 years, we (the Pakistanis) would have sorted him out ourselves!!

Cheema sahib,

Re: 101

The guy who "involved the religious element in politics right from the word go" was not MAJ (pbuh) but the Great Soul himself. It was he who encouraged the Moplahs to run riot all over the place, it was he who brought the bearded mullahs centre stage through the Khilafat movement.

You must read YLH's posts on this.

Regards

PS: By the way who is the "enemy" that you are referring to.

Re: # 102; majumdar bhai,

i'll be brief; bedtime in my part of the world

The Great Soul was pandering, like all you guys are, to the 'needs' of these evil elements; I don't mind people practicing their religion but having 'personal/religious' laws for marriage/civil matters...common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture; that has to reflect the 'core' or 'essence' of what it means to be ...say Indian/English/German/Pakistani etc...that will remain so. Pakistan will remain a muslim majority country and the 'mainstream' will always reflect that. I am all for it.

problem arises when a minority, rather than playing ball, starts dictating....i leave you to draw your own conclusions here..

Yes, MKG made mistakes; he equated pandering to the needs of minorities to 'enlightenment' and 'modernism'; but give the guy a break; he was an honest man.

Au contraire, MAJ was an opportunist of the highest order. If he was made PM of a 'united India', all would have been fine from his POV! that was clearly impracticle, despite what you might say...

I standby what I said; if he had lived 10-20 years, the 'mullahs' would have seen through him....and whatever you do, DONOT underestimate 'the mullah'; remember they got a 'sharaabi/kabaabi' ZAB to declare the 'ahmedis' murtid!

Just think about it, without YLH's brain please, for a few minutes and then see if you come up with the same conclusions. Foget MKG, but don't put all your eggs in MAJ's basket either!

btw: 'enemy' is 'the other/alternative', fullstop. (In the US they call it period but I am British!)

Re: # 62
Masadi...

You do not participate in a farce setup by the military and its excrement after undemocratic manuvering like the emergency and the assassination of the leading party's leadership.

Ans: If you are not ready to be part of a system, then stop shouting. Military can rule forever, if people does not grab slightest of the opportunities, they are provided with. The way CPI(M) came to power in West Bengal after emergency (in India), was amazing. Whatever may be systematic lacuna, some point of time, that can be bridged with participation itself. The Congress had resorted to mal-practises against regional parties (infamous article 356. Central Govt. can sack any state Govt. any time)... And they had to bow before people's wish...

Re: # 101
AkCheema

accept that if Pakistanis had aimed for a secular democratic path right from the start, we had a fair chance

Ans: Pakistan was created in the name of religion. It was very difficult for MAJ to make it secular. If he had emphasised for regional parity, that would have been better. MAJ had not started Muslim league movement. It was the disgrunted muslims in East Bengal (Calcutta based upper caste Hindus used to exploit Bangladeshis to the extreame. The Nawab of Dhaka was almost powerless, but the elites in Calcutta used to enjoy the cream), who had started this movement. MAJ was kind of spokes person for the Muslim League. I don't think, he was ultimate decision maker. A person, brought up in Gujrat/Mumbai will start "direct action day" in Calcutta!!!!
Congress was initially elitist movement. Gandhi had brought masses in Congress fold.
Majumder, for human development socialist model is better than others.

AkCheema...
common..you guys in India have to put a stop to this so-called 'multi-culturalism'that's going around. I don't mean start killing muslims!, every country/nation in the world has a certain 'mainstream' culture;
Ans: India has more than 15 dominant cultural groups ( excluding muslims). What should we do? Try to destroy all these cultures, which people are practising for thousands of years? Already, imposition of Hindi as national language created strong discontent in Tamilnadu and other Southern States...Personal cultural practises, which does not violate constitution should be kept like that...There is nothing called mainstream culture in India. You have to learn English to interact with people of all the states on India...
India is kind of mini Europe...Each state in India celebrate their own new year...Even Karnataka has their own state flag (read and yellow, if you are watching IPL see the costume of Royal Challengers of Bangalore)...

Re: # 80
Majumder...

British, European, American and Japanese and Korean companies which made their countries economic powers were all private sector entities

Ans: US and EU countries were industrialised long back. They needed no protection. The difference between Western Countries and Asian countries were huge. Japan and Korea is US stooge and they were rewarded with the latest technology and investments...
China's progress is still driven by public sectors and subsidy....

Re: # 106; nkg sahib

last post tonight, mainly because I don't want you guys to start killing people o'night and blame me tomorrow!

there has to be collectiveness and 'cohesiveness' amongst these cultures; bringing people together and NOT setting them apart. If a 'culture' is singled out, mainly because it is doing exactly that, then for god's sake talk about it! rather then bottling up the anger and killing a whole bunch of innocent people in gujarat or somewhere else.......problem with 'multi-culturalism' is, people become too politically correct; they don't want to challenge anything face to face. They bottle is up and ...boom...you have a Gujarat or Ayodhia or 9/11 or 7/7 before you know it!

That is what I am talking about sir..

Goodnight

Re: # 108
AKCheema...
Gujrat episode is something different. The history of violence in Gujrat were prevalent and the polarisation was there due to deep suspicion amongst Gujratis and muslims. During British period, part of Gujrat was under muslim ruler. The ruler favoured the muslims during feuds. After partition, the ruler was stripped of his power by a Gujju called Ballabh Bhai Patel(he is hero within RSS fold for his BOLD step)...So, the separation was very much there for quite a long time...During 2002, after the train burning and the Kargil war ( fresh in mind), people sentiment was at it's peak...So, the barbarism reached to the highest level...the muslim casualty was quite high (more than 800) compared to Gujju one ( 200) for the first time... The bad effect of this riot is total segregation between Gujjus and muslims...Gujrati muslims were most progressive and integrated one...VHP used tribals to loot rich muslim's properties...Whatever happened in Gujrat was very bad...But it was supposed to happen...I don't know how Modi will tackle this situation...It will take time...
In the recent elections, BJP has performe very poor in riot affected areas...
I am staying in Bangalore and a Bengali...I eat non-veg...Culturally a local muslim (from Bangalore) is much acceptable than me...Similar story repeats in every state...The story of Gujrat and post Ayodhya riots are abberations...
Coming to integration, most of the muslims in India are integrated..Social backwardness is due to something different reason...more to follow.. Good night...

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Re: # 110
Masadi...

This may be last in this regard...
If you feel the system is not proper, please be part of it to change it. The communist parties tried with the revolution theory and finally had to adopt the current electoral system in West Bengal,Kerala and Tripura. What the Naxalites are doing is just driven by similar sentiment. From outside, China looks good. But some day it will collapse, just like USSR. China can not sustain such kind of economic boom for long time. When the economic boom is over, it will be doomed. As per my understanding, Pakistan is not a prison state or like China. Army might have more that it's required share of voice in civil administration, but that can be changed.
Regarding industrial revolution in Europe, there was no qualitative competetion offered by British colonies. Though congress tried for "reject British goods", it had failed to work within common people. I think Tagore's "Nastaneer" ( English- Broken Nest) contains some of the contemporary realities in British India. Majumder may be able to comment on that...