How to End Politics of Hate and Intolerance

Today's chaotic world needs a new leadership that believes in non-violence and proves it through actions and not words alone.

Re: # 219;Re: about Tahir: "There has to be some limit to human stupidity"

Where Tahir is concerned, there ARE no limits!!

Re: # 218
"There has to be some limit to human stupidity"

If you don't bother reading, leave aside understanding this 'compelte submission to His will', you will continue to live in the condition you described in your comment.

Do let us know when your idols provide you with an answer.

Shaanti.
PS: Laddu Ji is ahead of you now. Hurry to catch up.

Re: # 216

Tahir

"Not even a Prophet can change (not a word, mind you) what God commands. 'Sunnah Allah remains unchanged', so says the Qur'an."

That is great, the prophet wrote that what he wrote is the word of God with no changes. That only proves that you have got a smart prophet, only a stupid one will say that what he wrote is his own and not the word of god.

There has to be some limit to human stupidity.

Re: # 216

tahiri saab, i am a kalma go musalman saab. sattari saab is 'Q' saab

Re: # 215
Mr. Sattar2,

Not even a Prophet can change (not a word, mind you) what God commands. 'Sunnah Allah remains unchanged', so says the Qur'an.

Only the Hadith literature shows the Prophet in a light adored by the Orientalists and detractors of Islam!

Please compare translations to see the 'slant' and the words put into the mouth of the Prophet through narrations that have been placed higher than God's Book!

What the good 'sahabah' did privately or according to their likes and dislikes cannot ever be called 'sunnah'. And the good companions would never go against what they were taught by the Prophet as God's message!

So what really happened here? Quite a few things that we practise today are Torah-Bible based, and certainly not what the Prophets conveyed as God's Word, and certainly not Islam or the Qur'an.

Contradictory (to one another and to the Qur'an) reports exist about the same topic on the same page coming from different narrators! No wonder they all love to quote the Ahadith!

Now who can dare say the same about the Qur'an which is self-explantory, clear, without inner contradictions, and comes with the Divine Publisher's guarantee?

Satan derives its power from OUR ignorance! Take charge and stop looking at the so-called Ulema for all your answers, PLEASE...

Next....

PS: Friends from the 'other side' need not answer this; the Muslims may by all means.

Re #214

"... Please quote where the Qur'an condemns killing a blasphemer? ..."

You may want to have this discussion with ullema, Urstruly et al ... who condemn to death blasphemers, adulterers, and apostates. They say the Prophet (pbuh) did it, and so should the ummah.

Apparently it is called Shariah!

Re: # 212
Dear Jay Pee,

You surely did not have Fauji Corn Flakes for breakfast, did you? Please quote where the Qur'an condemns killing a blasphemer?

The Bible does say in 24:16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Read the Qur'an to understand Islam, and stop wasting time on Wicked-Pedia...

The truth will liberate you.

Shanti.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?199420

Re: # 204

Thanks izuber,

SO as a true muslim, you will not hesitate to carry out the killing of salman rushdie or that dutch cartoonist per the book requirements.

You are in good company then on chowk, the tahmeds and others I listed have the same views regarding blasphemy.

They grew up in the pakistan of hoodood laws and blasphemy laws and honour killings.

Political violence & Islam
http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/16/top12.htm

Political violence & Islam
http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/16/top12.htm

Re: # 205
after all, "latoan kay bhoot batoan say nahin mantay" and you appear to be one who is asking for it.

.....

So Mr. Brave Pakistani, one threat (Richard Armitage " We will bomb Pakistan back to stone age") from an american officer (he is not president or vice-president of USA), and your President (Army chief) made his pants yellow...

Politics reflects our culture. Political violence is not unique in Pakistan. Bangladesh and other regions ( like UP and Bihar in India),where urdoo/islamic culture proliferated also witness similar phenomenon.
Kerala and West Bengal also (with more than 25% muslim population) faces similar problem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7346111.stm
Ch.Ch.Ch... A teacher teaching Quoran is facing such hardship in ISLAMIC country!!!
Ijuber, come on, do something...
Quoran is science. Pakistanis read quoran. Still they are not able to develop agriculture,industry,healthcare in such a way that, it makes them self sufficient...
See the achievement of the most hated people of Muhammed and his gang...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tDDkvXSI8

#205 izuber

[No actually I take pride in that very much and if you dont know how to and where at to tie your dhoti then stop running your filthy mouth about subjects that you and your kind will never understand.]

I doubt very much if you are more intelligent than me, and this is such a complex issue that I cannot understand. The issue is very simple. An uneducated bedouin hoodwinked other unwashed bedouins with some mumbo-jumbo about chatting with a winged creature in a cave. And since the Old Testament and the New Testament are too large to memorize at once, he had "revelations" only from time to time. He also had convenient revelations to save his a$$ from trouble - like when his wives threatened to go public about his spending too much time with the white egyptian slave Maria.
It is not very complicated that being a complete pervert, he had the hots for a poor little girl when she was 6. And being a monster, he beheaded 700 unarmed civilians.

Strong resemblences with Pol Pot, except Pol Pot did not have the hots for little kids.

About the "tying the dhoti" bit. I think we showed you guys how to tie the dhoti on December 16, 1971. Just in case you have forgotten, more lessons will be imparted.

Re: # 197
No actually I take pride in that very much and if you dont know how to and where at to tie your dhoti then stop running your filthy mouth about subjects that you and your kind will never understand.
after all, "latoan kay bhoot batoan say nahin mantay" and you appear to be one who is asking for it.

Re: # 201 JayP
JayP states:
"Thanks izuber, be careful, very very careful in pakistan. It appears that you are ready to consider even the ahmadias as equals, and even alleges that all relegions could be equal.

Hope the god, what ever be his name, protects you from the blasphemy laws of the islamic republic of pakistan.

Never ever get in touch with tahmed, urstruly, zeemax etc of chowk, becuase you are new, you may not know them, they are ISI and jihadi agents on chowk."

All humans are equal, yet I cannot allow you to committ blasphemy, be you a hindu, a jew, ahmadi or whatever.

Secondly all those you named in your comments for me to boycott are my brothers so dont expect me to give up on them only because you feel that they respond in kind to those who are blasphemous.
I hold my brothers dearly while I am very sorry that you misunderstood my approach which only calls for humanly rights of course those are accorded to the ones who are humanly, all others get the "aja moray balma tera intezar haye wala liter on their you know what"

Read the following. And then imagine if 5 hindu adults had raped a 13-year-old Muslim girl in Lahore or Islamabad or anywhere else in a Muslim country.

http://www.mid-day.com/web/guest/news/mumbai/article?_EXT_5_articleI d=1086772&_EXT_5_groupId=14

13-year-old allegedly gangraped for over a year
Author: Ketan Rang Date: 13 Apr 2008


By Ketan Ranga

Swati Sonavne (name changed), mother of 13-year-old Sunita Sonavne (name changed) was shocked when doctors at a private hospital in Ghatkopar on Thursday told her that Sunita was five months pregnant. When she questioned Sunita, she was told that she had been raped multiple times by five men for the last one and a half year.

The five men had warned her to not to talk about it to anyone or they would harm her and also defame her and her parents’ image. Her mother took her to Ghatkopar police station and filed a complaint on Friday. The police have also arrested four of the five accused while one is absconding.

Sunita told her mother that the five men were Allah Rakha Sayyed (20), Munir Shaikh (19), both her school mates, Liyakat Khan (30), son of the landlord in whose house the Sonavnes live and Shaukhat Ali Shaikh (24) and Munna Sayyed, staying in their locality. The five had been allegedly raping her since November 2006. The five people were everyday visitors to their home. Sunita identified the men in front of the police.

Sunita’s mother took her to the hospital after she noticed some changes in her body. Also, Swati had been complaining of stomach pain. When she was taken for a medical checkup, the doctors told her mother that she was five months pregnant.

The men allegedly had sexual relations with her when her parents went out for work. Said F Pawar, police inspector at Ghatkopar police station, “We have registered a gangrape case against five men. We have arrested four men, while Munna is still wanted.”

NEVER listen to liberals. Remember - Daniel Pearl was a liberal.

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Thanks izuber, be careful, very very careful in pakistan. It appears that you are ready to consider even the ahmadias as equals, and even alleges that all relegions could be equal.

Hope the god, what ever be his name, protects you from the blasphemy laws of the islamic republic of pakistan.

Never ever get in touch with tahmed, urstruly, zeemax etc of chowk, becuase you are new, you may not know them, they are ISI and jihadi agents on chowk.

#199 izuber

So you avoided answering post# 197.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure. :-)

#198 by ajeya

"God knows how people get the way you muslims do. I guess all Abrahamic religions are this way. Perfect for tribal instincts that go so well with the reptilian part of the brain."

Yes, God knows very well but it's people with an elevator that fails to reach the top floor who dont know & try not to understand.
Did you think of Brahimin as Abrahimic too?

#195 izuber

[If this is an effort on anyone's part to influence me away from my faith that is absurd and an attempt in vain.]

Yes. Everyone is dying to steal you away from your "faith" to swell their own ranks.

God knows how people get the way you muslims do. I guess all Abrahamic religions are this way. Perfect for tribal instincts that go so well with the reptilian part of the brain.

#195 izuber

[To sum it up, I denounce violence and murder of any human equally, be the victim of my faith or any other faith, regardless.]

So do you denounce the murder by beheading of 700 UNARMED civilians by mohammad? And the selling of their HELPLESS and INNOCENT women and CHILDREN into slavery?

I guess you don't? Eh?

See how trying to be logical contradicts your long-held beliefs that are based on blind faith?

Re: # 193
Your post demonstrates a downright influence of brainwashing, a faithful Muslim is the best Muslim in all manners, as anything less could not be considered a Muslim.

Let me know when you are ready to take pronounce Shahadat and it would be my honor and privilege to dispense.

May Allah SWT reincarnate your brain to a level better than its present state and bless you with a greater vision, ameen.

Re: # 194
Being a good human has everything to do with Islam, while no faith teaches hatred or violence, while acts of few should not be used to portray entire community by stereotyping.

If this is an effort on anyone's part to influence me away from my faith that is absurd and an attempt in vain.

To sum it up, I denounce violence and murder of any human equally, be the victim of my faith or any other faith, regardless.

Hope you are able to understand but if you cant you need to ponder some more.

Re: # 191

izuber,

I could not make head and tail of what you posted. let me paraphrase, that you consider yourself to be a good human and it has nothing to do with any religion. let alone islam.

Pl let me know in case you meant something different.

Re: misc. by izuber

Maybe the following will penetrate your brain. Maybe it won't. Brainwashing from birth is difficult to eradicate.

All I can say is - try to read this as a logical exercise, if nothing else. And see what you get.

Of course, I do not expect any logical thinking from you or any faithful muslim. Unquestioning submission precludes any independent thinking that might make the faithful change their mind about "submitting".

http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/montazeri.htm

Re: # 190
Thanks to Allah SWT Alhamdulillah that HE blessed us with such noble rulings while we would like to be in a position to also thank the scholarly of Islam to appropriately first educate themselves with the noble teachings of the faith of Islam which teaches no less than co-existence & tolerance and stands for no less than peace, however, the effect in the teachings of those who do not either implement these teachings first in their own practices and character or fail to convey these spirits in their absolute terms to those who aspire to learn from them is one of the factors of the failure we observe; it is therefore that, Islam today is the most misunderstood faith first by it's own believers, and, then by the rest of the audience who are only able to see the darker and illiterate side of the faith as dramatized and presented by the acts of those who appear to be portraying it's lesser image to the rest of the world.

It literally ashames me to see such incidents take place where a few cross their boundaries by their acts of aggression & violence and end up defaming all the followers of the faith regardless.

I remind once again that Allah SWT is the sustainer of all humanity and not the Muslims only likewise the title of our beloved Prophet Mohammed Peace be upon him is Rehmat Ul LilAlameen & NOT Rehmat Ul LilMuslimeen only if in todays world the Muslim brethren would be acting in accordance with the rules prescribed by Allah SWT and as practiced by Mohammed SAW/PBUH we would not have to bear such significant outrage & humiliation that is being directed toward the Muslim ummah.

Re: # 190
Thanks to Allah SWT Alhamdulillah that he bless us with such noble rulings while we would like to be in a position to also thank the scholarly of Islam to appropriately first educate themselves with the noble teachings of the faith of Islam which teaches no less than co-existence & tolerance and stands for no less than peace, however the effect in the teachings of those who do not either implement these teachings first on themselves or fail to convey these spirits in their absolute terms to those who aspire to learn it from them, it is therefore Islam today is the most misunderstood faith first by it's own believers and then by the rest of the audience who are only able to see the darker and illiterate side of the faith as dramatized and presented by the acts of those who appear to be portraying it's image to the rest of the world.
It literally ashames me to see such incidents take place where a few cross their boundaries by their acts of aggression and end up defaming all the followers of the faith.
I remind once again that Allah SWT is the sustainer of all humanity and not the Muslims only likewise the title of our beloved Prophet Mohammed Peace be upon him is Rehmat Ul LilAlameen & NOT Rehmat Ul LilMuslimeen only if in todays world the Muslim brethren would be acting in accordance with the rules prescribed by Allah SWT and as practiced by Mohammed SAW/PBUH we would not have to bear such significant outrage & humiliation that is being directed toward the Muslim ummah.

Re: # 189

izuber,

Thank you for being the one of the very few decent pakistani on chowk, who is bold enough, for the first time on chowk, to say that blasphemy laws are bad. The first one ever on chowk, to make that small step, to correct a situation, first pakistani to take individual responsibility rather than blaming the mullah, the military you name it.

Wish you the best, and hope some day you will become a role model for the young of pakistan, and always rediculed by the YLH and tahmeds of chowk.

It is recommended that all those doing business internationally with this company should review their dealings and boycott commerce with such a company which fails to maintain a balance and orderly work environment and goes to the extent of condoning the unlawful murder of one of it's employees on premises by other employees, while furthers it's inhuman tradition by terminating 40 other employees without reason. It is an insult to humanity as well as to Islamic traditions and values, anyone who condones such acts and causes such conditions to prevail should be boycotted for their cruelty to humanity.
Following are the details of Nova Industries Pvt. Ltd. of Karachi.
------------------------------------------------
Company Name: Nova International Pvt Ltd (262)
Representative: Mr. Asif Nazar
Title: Director
Plot: 81
Sector: 7A
Telephone: 5062084, 5054389
Fax: 5061606
-------------------------------------------------

Re: # 187
Its shameful to have to endure such an illiterate culture and social existence.
Once again I must repeat what Allah SWT says in the holy Quran:
"La ikraha fi deen" i.e. there is no compulsion in religion.
While the specifics of the unfortunate incident are unknown beyond what media reports and beyond what is the understanding of people per-se, it is the incumbent upon Muslims to act in accordance with the principles of Islam.
First of all the people who took the life of another at their own determination have no right to exercise in the manner they acted; secondly it is even more shameful for the owners of the business to unilaterally terminate the services of others of Hindu faith prematurely.
Both of these acts are an evidence of illiterate and premature individuals who took it upon themselves to act in this manner.
It is the responsibility of Muslims to assure that even in such a circumstance as described by these factory workers they should have allowed the authorities to take notice of such an occurrence at the most they should have brought their dissatisfaction to the attention of authorities in an appropriate and non-biased manner.
Allah SWT is Rub Ul Alameen & N O T Rub Ul Muslimeen only as stated by HIM in the holy quran.
Those who terminate the life of others without due process and those who terminate the employment of others without any fault of theirs are accountable to both, Allah SWT in the day of Judgment and the prevailing rulers of current govt., if the ruling govt fails to secure undisturbed living conditions for the affected employees it will also be held accountable in the day of judgment by Allah SWT.
May Allah SWT bless all with appropriate understanding of their faith, ameen, while all should get their faith together that "Allah SWT is the sustainer of all & not just Muslims and specially the Muslim brethren should refrain from creating fitnah as these acts are nothing more than fitnah.

Mohar 177,

It has been yet another routine day in pakistan, the usual TNT policies, the muslims cannot live, let alone work with hindus.

Good to see that the work of jinnah continue to influence pakistan. from jang of today

40 Hindu workers set to lose their jobs after Jagdesh’s murder
Sunday, April 13, 2008
By Aroosa Masroor

Karachi

Some 40 Hindu workers – all residents of the Marwari Mohalla and neighbours of (late) Jagdesh Kumar – have been deprived of their jobs as the management of Nova Industries (in Korangi Industrial Area) has restricted their entrance. The move comes after some community members reportedly attempted to register Jagdesh’s murder case with the police, Lyari Town Minority Councilor, Ratan Kumar, told The News.

“Since Jagdesh’s murder on Tuesday, April 8, the factory van has not come to pick the workers from this vicinity and the workers fear they have lost their jobs. They have been receiving reports from their Muslim co-workers that the management of the factory has fired them all in reaction to Jagdesh’s alleged blasphemous remarks,” Kumar said.

I submit to your inquiry, the qibla awwal was Masjid-e-Aqsa (Baitul Muqqadas), the Qiblah-thani is Haram Sharieff (Not a relative of the not-so Sharieff brothers) while it is the intentions of humans that are accounted for the basic part as stated by Allah SWT in the following Ayah:

Al-Baqara (The Cow)
2:142 THE WEAK-MINDED among people will say, "What has turned them away from the direction of prayer which they have hitherto observed?" Say: "God's is the east and the west; He guides whom He wills onto a straight way.

While Allah SWT states as following regarding the Qiblah

Al-Baqara (The Cow)
2:145 And yet, even if thou wert to place all evidence before those who have been vouchsafed earlier revelation, they would not follow thy direction of prayer; and neither mayest thou follow their direction of prayer, nor even do they follow one another's direction. And if thou shouldst follow their errant views after all the knowledge that has come unto thee thou wouldst surely be among the evildoers.

Al-Baqara (The Cow)
2:149 Thus, from wherever thou mayest come forth, turn thy face [in prayer] towards the Inviolable House of Worship-for,. behold, this [commandment] comes in truth from thy Sustainer; and God is not unaware of what you do.

As observed in the current day world we the people of the under-developed nations place more trust with prominence in the ones that are no more superior than any other human (only if one strives to progress and achieve)and people in general believe that the one sitting in the White House is (God forbid)their sustainer and savior while such psyche resembles to what I attempt to mention regarding re-alignment of Kabah from White House towards the Qiblah Thani(Second). Hope I am able to answer your question.

Great article and great psycho analysis of deceived Pakistani nation

Re: # 182

izubary saab Re:Its time for the entire nation to re-align their Kabbah away from the direction of white house. )

would we still call it 'qibla-e-awwal' saab?

that may get us into the same problem we have with or other qibla-e-awwal saab

Re: # 181

yeah westy, may be tahmeedi saab can comment as he loves these low lives so much saab

"Pakistan for the last many years is witnessing all kinds of conflicts—economic, socio-political, center-provinces disagreements, sectarian, tribal, ethnic and religious fights, suicidal attacks, thrashing of political opponents and what not."
------- True but not accurate--------
The fact and dependent on how far back the author(s) are able to account for this distress could be the reason.
"the last many years" should be revised by the readers to read as last many decades
When criticizing an improper situation we should be prudent in our approach and get out of our self-imposed nut shells, while the topic discussed by the author(s) is a sincere attempt to shed light on the prevailing deteriorating conditions nationwide, but this has been going on for more than just last many years, such conditions have prevailed in the past extending beyond Musharraf's rule, the Operation Clean up in the 90's is no concealed matter although plenty of efforts have gone in to conceal it in a manner so it does not become an issue, but it was and is an issue. In years previous to that, live women and children were picked up and thrown in the fire in Orangi town, in the fires that were burning these people's very own homes, or should I say huts yani jhonprian, majority of these people were from those refugees who repatriated after quite an struggle from Bangladesh, and have already gone through what could be considered hell like conditions prior to suffering once again on the hands of the so-called brothers in Islam.
During the period of the rule of Nawaz Not-So-Sharieff brutalities surpassed even the cruel most limits and when people sent their young kids to go live with someone over in another province such as Punjab, the Punjab Govt did not allow them to stay there and returned them home to be killed by the barbarians who were seeking and killing every young man they can get their hands on, plenty of sacked dismembered bodies were found in the city of Karachi.
During the rule of Z A Bhutto throughout the 70's the govt insisted that the Baluch & Pashtun have declared revolt against Pakistan and have climbed over the mountains while they will not come down and talk and rather kill & die, to strengthen such blames the govt with the aid of the interior ministry and subordinating police departments went to the extent of scattering weapons around the dormitories at Karachi University where Baluch & Pashtun students who have come for education were living and then awakened these students in the middle of night after fabricating, engineering and doctoring it's conspiracy to build a case, waking these students at 2 & 3 AM and rounding them up for conspiring against Pakistan's solidarity and existence, charged hundreds of these students and booked them.
Aitezaz Ahsan the famous lawyer who was once the interior minister ordered the police force in Hyderabad sindh to open fire on a peaceful demonstration by women which resulted in numerous deaths and serious injuries.
During the same tenure Aitezaz Ahsan who now portrays himself as a supporter of freedom of media had ordered deportation of visiting journalist and author Lamb because he did not like the truth that she accounted in her writing.
If an honest accounting of all that has been going on in Pakistan for "decades" is carried out volumes of books can be written and still there will be some more.
We have become very used to picking up slogans and proverbial statements from writers and philosophers and use those with pride in our writings and statements while we fail to recognize as individual citizens as to what we as individuals have contributed?
Talk about a protest, demonstration or a rally we happen to be the most experienced nation with ability and knowledge on how to disturb peace and how to cause mischevious acts to disturb the civil life, be it pahiya jaam, black out, white out, red out or some other out, a boycott or whatever it may be, we are just too used to finding some way to cause disturbance and avoid going to work for another day.
If all these so-called politicians who are so cunning in their approach would announce a day of clean up throughout Pakistan on the weekly day off no one will show up to participate but we love to get out there on a weekday instead of working and cause damage to every and anything that is made of glass or plastic, be it the traffic lights, a showroom or a vehicle we know all the techniques on how to burn what and how to damage what.
The judges that are out of their seats now like being politicians and have no interest in discharging their actual duties, while this special group of judges have some pioneers of the first PCO under which they took oath but now that they had established themselves in their seats they are aspiring to pick on a bigger bone than they have swallowed in past but their conspiracies that they have sowed in the greed to turn over the govt will not come true and they will soon find out that no matter how much they conspired with the Nawaz Not-So-Sharieff they will not succeed in their attempts to set their teeth on a bigger bone.
They like to hold seminars in the name of Judicial authority and use the court auditorium premeises where they sit pretty chairing the occasion while under their leadership and under their chairmanship of the occasion they use aspiring individuals to make statements way below the belt and less than the ethics of their profession accords them.
In the beautiful words of the author, "Blame game and mudslinging must end now."
As far as the beneficiaries of NRO are concerned it includes quite a few Not-So-Sharieffs.
With regards to masses like in Georgia nothing less than the French Revolution which culminated ankle high blood in streets can work, people voted for the national and provincial assemblies however our shrewd politicians are still not awake and dreaming by insisting as if it was a referundum for the President of Pakistan, how long can we go denying the facts? & how long will we allow these wolves to suck the blood of Pakistan? its time to find an obsolete ship of Pak Navy and put all these politicians on it, take it to the deep sea and torpedo the hell out of these politician so that even the whales and sharks cant find a chunk of them.
Its time for the entire nation to re-align their Kabbah away from the direction of white house.

Re: # 180

Easty, look what these stupid Baangladaishis are upto saab!

'Dozens hurt' in Dhaka protests

Dozens of people are thought to have been hurt in clashes with police
Hundreds of people campaigning for Islamic rule in Bangladesh have clashed with police over a new policy advocating more rights for women.

Police used teargas and batons to break up the protests after members of the Islamic Constitution Movement (ICM) threw rocks in the capital, Dhaka.

Mokarram Hossain of Dhaka Metropolitan Police said there were more than 500 protesters and dozens were hurt.

Protesters had ignored a ban on such gatherings under a state of emergency.

It was imposed by an army-backed interim administration which took power in January last year.

Equal inheritance

Activists were angered by media reports of a draft law that gives equal inheritance rights to men and women.

It is understood that the policy would not be legally binding but would act as a guideline for the next parliament to use in forming legislation.

Parliamentary elections are expected to take place at the end of this year.

Mr Hossain said the clashes erupted during a demonstration following Friday prayers in front of the national mosque.

He said about 300 police officials were deployed around the mosque as hundreds of people from various Islamic groups took part in the protests.

Islamic guidelines

The ICM, which is one of a number of groups campaigning for Sharia-based laws in Bangladesh, said the proposed women's rights law was against a Koranic law of inheritance.

Mohammad Ismail, a protester, said: "We are not against women's rights, but it has to be according to the guidelines of Islam."

And Kawser Ahmed, who was also protesting, said: "The draft that the government prepared is totally anti-Islamic. We will not allow it to be passed."

Other groups who joined the protests included the Ahkame Sharia Hefazat Committee, backed by the country's biggest Islamic party, Jamaat-e-Islami.

Bangladesh, which is a Muslim-majority nation with a population of about 150 million people, adheres to a secular constitution, although the state religion is Islam.

Nearly 50 people were hurt on Thursday when members of the Khelafat Majlis group clashed with police in the capital over the same issue.

hey westy, the Baangladaishis have been at it again saab

Re: # 177

mohar,

Nothing special, another routine day, another reported instance of local entertainment, a hindu killed accoding to the blasphemy law requirements of the islamic republic.

From Jang of today

Police watched as Jagdesh was lynched by workers
Saturday, April 12, 2008
By Qadeer Tanoli

Karachi

The murder of factory worker, Jagdesh, who was attacked and killed by his colleagues on April 8 in Korangi Industrial Area may have been done in the presence of the police who did nothing to stop this from happening, eye witnesses told The News.

Jagdesh Kumar was murdered on suspicion that he had uttered blasphemous words, in the process enraging his fellow workers who beat him to death.

#177 mohar11

[OK Pakis, how are things today? How many of you got killed today?... and what's the breakup by MQM, Army, Jihadis, hellfires...? ]

Typical hate-speech from an Indian "hinud". And no wonder, either, with all that brainwashing from the anti-Islam and anti-Pakistani rhetoric in Indian schoolbooks that have been injected by the so-called "secular" Indian Government. Why is it so hard for you "hinuds" to see that inspite of all the blood and gore that went on in Muhammad's times, and also for the last 1400,in every Islamic country, or countries controlled by Islamists, Islam is IN REALITY a religion of peace. Okay, maybe there are calls to kill the infidels - but that's only applicable SOMETIMES. Maybe there's the law of taxing the hell out of "Dhimmis", but LOOK - it's not followed anymore, especially because it would be too difficult to follow it in today's day and age. Maybe there's the permission to rape war-booty women, But that was because women didn't mind being raped back in those days. And everyone did it - so what's the big deal.

I could go on, but what's the point? It's going to fall on deaf ears. You hinuds have your ears permanently sealed, and your brains permanently altered by the RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena. Also the BJP.

And kindly leave Muslims to kill in peace. All this killing is really a 1400-year aberration. In REALITY, Islam is a religion of peace. Praise be to allah! Alla-hoo!

OK Pakis, how are things today? How many of you got killed today?... and what's the breakup by MQM, Army, Jihadis, hellfires...?

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Laughable Dawn and its news posting times.

MQM chief withdraws resignation KARACHI, April 11 (APP): Chief of Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) Altaf Husain has withdrawn his resignation as party head on the demand of party workers. Announcing his decision by telephone at party headquarter Nine Zero he sought the pledge from local MQM leadership that they will fulfill their responsibilities with dedication in future. (First Posted @ 20:34 PST Updated @ 22:12 PST)
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MQM chief announces to step down KARACHI, Pakistan, April 11 (APP): Chief of Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) Altaf Husain on Friday announced his stepping down as head of the party on failure of its local leadership to control law and order situation in time. In a letter addressed to party leaders and workers from London, he said he was shocked over the loss of lives and property in Karachi. Deputy Convener of MQM coordination committee read out the abdication letter of Altaf Husain during the general party workers meeting held at party head quarter Nine Zero. “I am deeply shocked and arrived at a conclusion that I am unable to lead the party and ask the coordination committee to look after all the affairs of the party and maintain peace in the city at all cost”, Altaf Husain said. He noted that MQM leaders and elected leadership had failed to control violence in the city. Altaf Husain said peaceful protest was the right of every citizen, but resort to violence and loss of lives come under open terrorism. “You know that I am against every kind of violence,” he added. He said the violence claimed more than 12 innocent lives including those of lawyers, journalists who were subjected to brutality at the hands of unidentified persons and property was set ablaze. (Posted @ 20:34 PST)
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MQM leaders also threaten to resign KARACHI, Pakistan, April 11 (APP): MQM parliamentarians, Karachi Nazim, town nazims and other leaders on Friday threatened to resign their seats if party chief Altaf Husain did not withdraw his decision to step down. Deputy Convener MQM Rabita Committee Dr. Farooq Sattar announcing the decision of local leadership at party headquarter Nine Zero said they cannot run the party without the leadership of Altaf Husain. Thousands of MQM workers and supporters who rushed to Nine Zero to express solidarity with Altaf Husain refused to leave the place and also threatened to go on hunger strike unless Altaf Husain withdrew his resignation. (Posted @ 22:16 PST)
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http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/11/welcome .htm

Re: # 146 Posted by hamidm2 on April 11, 2008 6:13:56 am

gopi sahib,

what in happening here at chowk?

I am still waiting on urstruly to tell me what Timbuktu territory is? Then, all of a sudden this hoopla started. And now I am reading that you have become gopi. Why gopi?

Screw that mafiaso boss and his gangsters who have taken urban Sindhis for a ride. His work is complete, because military occupation has become a thing of the past, and most pro-military establsihment forces know that their days are numbered.

Get a bigger perspective on what is happening in Pakistan. Actually, this is happening around the world. Look at it from UN and its Human Rights charter. Democracy is the name of the new world order, and we will have economic and business relationship only with those countries who truly believe in this charter and develop a system of human dignity towards respecting all human beings living amongst them within their respective geographical boundaries. Nation states will finally be accepted.

No more roaming around whether from tree limb to tree limb or by foot. Passports and other forms of identification will be required.

#170/171 Posted by queen_cut_paste,

LoL ... I am NOT a literalist ... Haha ... I just apply the Occam's Razor to every written word!

Yeah I'm impressed with the 'group' of 'one' person ... :)

Re: # 167
On the contrary your comments may further inflate the inflated egos.zemax in#169 is a prime example.

group I thought I would address in the plural makes it sound even more impressive

Re: # 168 just as you seem to know your religion y heart they know the constitution
just as you are a literalist quran wise they contitutionally

jsut you are a stubborn git they are

just you are a loose cannon they are as well.

I forgot the ansrchists of the Masadi kind you need these rabble rousers to make the system tick and provide the pertubation

... but you're wrong with this:

2. the zeemax group - the literalist group who know the real thing but are literalist

I am the ONLY one in this category. Name another one!

#165 Posted by queen_cut_paste,

Lawyers are the zeemaxes of the country - they know constitutionality

Haha! Queenie. Thanks. I'm honored to be grouped with the Lawyer's movement!

hey guys dont take it to heart. This was just what I have seen on chowk.

Re: # 165 who says chowk is not a microcosm of pakistan on the internet.

chowk paindabad
chowk zindabad


Long live Chowk

five groups lets call them

1. hamidm2 group (the fauji types - realistic modernising types)

2. the zeemax group - the literalist group who know the real thing but are literalist

3. the urstruly types - the relativist realistic relgious types

4. the tahmed32 types - the ultra-silently-religious types

5. the salim types - the newbees with a ruler syndrome - the ones that can cause mayhem

you have these five types in pakistan.

one would want to put the tahmed32 types either into loony bins for treatment or into monasteries where no one can find them or interact with them. They are the dreamy, ambiguous ones and can be dangerous to the nations health

you will put the zeemax types and the salims behind bars. the zeemax types in perpetuity as they are the most dangerous kind while the salimtypes for the time they donot repent (they will very quickly mark you)

the urstruly and the hamidm2 can do business and move the country forward.

the Lawyers are the zeemaxes of the country - they know constitutionality, but are effing literalists and are essentially loose cannons. loose cannons need to be tied down and hidden away. Along with them the other religious literalists

the MQMs, zardaris, the nawas are the salim types - you can do business with them, but you need to put them in a dark room and show them the error of their ways.

the Hamidm2s (ak the faujis) and the urstruly's (the religiously realistic ones) should start ball rolling. SInce they both are realistic but are waiting for the other to ask them onto the dance floor - before the start mooching and ending up in the same seedy hotel room

The solution to the problem.

#161 Posted by queen_cut_paste,

Congrats Queenie! The one and only.

Haha ... takes back the decision. It just took a chant of "Altaf Bhai Altaf Bhai ... wapas ao".

Urdu Speaking are in real trouble with leadership like this.

re: tahmed32
You seem to be a tad angry at Mohajirs any particular reason.

Regards,

Faruk

zeemax figured out the cockroach_5. Yeah.

Re: # 156


I know that Englishman story and it goes like this...


If it was a Monday then the dog was.....NS,

If it was a Tuesday then the dog was Iftikhar Chaudhry

If it was a Wednesday, the the biatch was AZ

If it was a Thursday, then the mutt was IK

If it was a Friday, then the stray was Maulvi Diesel.

And Saturday Sunday, the Englishman was the dog.

#158 hamidm: while you are at it, could you answer treetops question in #152 please?

Re: # 150

tahmed,

.... it is none of your business where and when i squat - as it says in the koran, "there is no compulasion in bowel movements"

How to End the Politics of Hate and Intolerance?

Get rid of (or radically alter) the guiding principles of the cult of Islam.

That'll do it.


'Dozens hurt' in Dhaka protests


Hundreds of people campaigning for Islamic rule in Bangladesh have clashed with police over a new policy advocating more rights for women.

Police used teargas and batons to break up the protests after members of the Islamic Constitution Movement (ICM) threw rocks in the capital, Dhaka.

Mokarram Hossain of Dhaka Metropolitan Police said there were more than 500 protesters and dozens were hurt.

Protesters had ignored a ban on such gatherings under a state of emergency.

It was imposed by an army-backed interim administration which took power in January last year.

Equal inheritance

Activists were angered by media reports of a draft law that gives equal inheritance rights to men and women.

It is understood that the policy would not be legally binding but would act as a guideline for the next parliament to use in forming legislation.

Parliamentary elections are expected to take place at the end of this year.

Mr Hossain said the clashes erupted during a demonstration following Friday prayers in front of the national mosque.

He said about 300 police officials were deployed around the mosque as hundreds of people from various Islamic groups took part in the protests.

Islamic guidelines

The ICM, which is one of a number of groups campaigning for Sharia-based laws in Bangladesh, said the proposed women's rights law was against a Koranic law of inheritance.

Mohammad Ismail, a protester, said: "We are not against women's rights, but it has to be according to the guidelines of Islam."

And Kawser Ahmed, who was also protesting, said: "The draft that the government prepared is totally anti-Islamic. We will not allow it to be passed."

Other groups who joined the protests included the Ahkame Sharia Hefazat Committee, backed by the country's biggest Islamic party, Jamaat-e-Islami.

Bangladesh, which is a Muslim-majority nation with a population of about 150 million people, adheres to a secular constitution, although the state religion is Islam.

Nearly 50 people were hurt on Thursday when members of the Khelafat Majlis group clashed with police in the capital over the same issue.

#155 did you hear of the englishman who called up the Guiness Book of World Records saying he had just spotted a dog with two assholes?..after Guiness investigated, it turned out that musharraf and altaf were out walking their dog.

Another drama baazi by altaphi pir. Excuses himself from leading party. Asshole!

Re: # 148

don't you get tired of recycling your goop ad nauseum. After a while it becomes quite pathetic.

Re: # 148

hamidm2,

It will be an honor and a pleasure to be on your side, meaning humanity.

Re: # 150 tahmed
What does hamidm uses after squatting, stones?

Re: # 149

Dear Urstruly,

Pleasure is all mine.

#148 hamidm: i thought you squatted on railway tracks only at night so no one would laugh at you.

Re: # 145

It is even beneath my contempt to address the fascist murderers of MQM like yourself. I am writing this, only to show what I think of SOBs of your kind.

Re: # 145

rf786,

.... brother, our grandfathers made a big mistake by converting - let's do the right thing and undo the wrong that has been done ..... if people are going to lauygh at us, they might as well laugh at us for swinging from the trees and squatting on railroad tracks !

.... join me

gopi

Re: # 143

One more thing, this resignation drama is an old ploy, I am so sorry if your ghand had some khujlee and that too for nothing.

.... actually altaph bhai is in the process of 'resigning' on geo tv ! ...... is this joker for real! .... when did he escape from the lunatic asylum ?

...... i call upon the british to return to pakistan and leave altaph bhai behind in london..... i cannot stand being a paki any more and formally declare myself a hindoo and change my name to gopinath maharaj ..... call me gopi ! .......

Re: # 143

Urstruly,

Why does MQM cause such Ghand mein khujlee? B4 calling that chuttya a terrorist have the fkg integrity to call those MOFO suicide bombers and their bhenchod fathers the same. As for the Sher Afghanized phrase, well the list is long and endless starting from Maududi all the way to Maulvi Diesel, Qazi Hussein and all other chuttyia Mullas.

Re: # 143

urstruly,

..... musharraf, my sister's khansama, pm gilani and tahmed have also resigned ! ......... so what is keeping you from resigning from your position as osama's chief sheep groomer ?

Zeemax:

Oh my God! I jsut read the news that MQM's mutherfukking terrorist psychopath is stepping down. God I just can't wait to see him deported to Pakistan and Sher Afganized.

Bhen chod dalla. Sorry couldn't help it.

Dear Writer & Sundry

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Much is at stake here, if it offends your sensibilities or disturbs your humongous ego's then find something else to talk about.

Fanatics wearing suicide belts are willing to kill and be killed to impose their narrow minded, bigoted world view; self-proclaimed leader of Punjab (NS) and most likely murderer of BB is trying to muscle his way back into power; deal maker AZ is going around doing what he does best, set up deals for his business empire; chuttyia Musharraf continues to make an ass out of himself; delusional, meglomaniac chuttar Iftikhar Chaudhry is living in a make belief world of him being the knight in shining armor not knowing he is the ass that NS is riding; conniving Chaudhry's of Gujrat in their greed to hold on to the ill-gotten gains continue to conspire; Altaph bhai has responded in his typical sarak chaap, ghoonda tactics; and of course, we have the regular chorus of hurt feelings being soaked on chowk, irrespective of the implication and direction this country is head.....dismemberment or if lucky a loose confederation.

Re: # 140

what is the Timbuktu category?

are you trying to be a comedian, now?

please don't quit your day job. whatever that might be?

Re: # 139

So you fall into the Timbuktu category.

Re: # 122 Posted by Urstruly on April 11, 2008 3:25:57 am

Urstruly sahib,

Did you learn that a hindoo was killed in Karachi? Now, if you are a religious person, can you condone such act of violence?

I just hope not. Muslim behavior is what matters most in the world these days, and their relationship towards other fellow humans.

Did you see violence in Sudan's Darfur area? Muslim arabs went on the killing rampage on black muslims. Do you usually get sad when a human gets killed?

[And I suggest that you get in the line. I am for sure the only interactor at the whole fukking chowk from whom people want authenticity before even I start talking.]

And you should be glad that most chowkies want the best in you. Are you not glad to lead in your prophet's way and become authentic?

Please stop analyzing words, while you are in the process of being authentic and following your spiritual leader. And don't pick and choose between a fanatic muslim and a moderate muslim (or is a moderate muslim, an oxymoron?).

[No such demand is placed on any other single fukking interactor except me.]

Because you are bogus, and your claim of religiosity is tainted towards your own version of what a muslim should be or should not be, and most people at chowk are just sick and tired of people who think like you.

[Perhaps I step on too many tails in the course of the day. And I intend to keep doing it.]

Good for you. Become a laughing stock both as a person, and make your values look ridiculously outdated. Actually, it remains a pleasure to read Hamid Mians comments on the views you express.

Re: # 133
Andhay ko andheray main bohat dur ki sujji.

#131 Posted by Urstruly,

gasoline arranged in advance

Not gasoline Urstruly, white powder. Some are saying it was Napalm, some saying it was white phosphorous.

The line "a hundred young men on motorcycles arrived" reminded me of your article 'White Charade'.

#133 zeemax: i hope you are right about mush/mqm/pmlq being now isolated from ppp. but it seems to me PPP itself is split (rank and file want nothing to do with mush or mqm, party position remains unclear still).

Re: # 132
Tahmed32, you wrong there.....both wear uniforms
army:http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/pakistan/images/militar y.jpg

the mullahs: http://doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mullah-hassani.jpg

Both have weird saultes and handshakes (like the freemasons do)! Come on Tahmed32 in your dotage you are slipping.

#131 and no need to shed your crocodile tears for pakistanis. you refuse to accept the people's mandate just as much as mqm.

#127 Posted by tahmed32,

The deal would have been three-way i.e. musharraf remains president but gives up 58-2(b), MQM joins Federal Cabinet and gives up Karachi to PPP, Judiciary restored in the minus-one formula, and everyone goes home.

However PML-N put a spanner in the works by threatening to pull out of the coalition. ANP too showed its revulsion to MQM in Federal Cabinet and the entire coalition would have collapsed resulting in snap elections and a clear majority for PML-N.

As a consequence, the altaphie - Zardari bhai bhai deal scuppered and now the deal seems to be three-way between musharraf, MQM and PML-Q i.e. create anarchy, create conditions for dismissal of cabinet, MQM gets Karachi and PML-Q gets Lahore back in some new set-up, and musharraf remains firmly in-charge.

Americans seem to have given their nod going by Richard Boucher's statement today.

urstruly: actually you and hamidm have something in common - both of you would deny pakistanis their right to vote.

in your case, you would like to see them ruled by a bearded scoundrel, in hamidms case by a uniformed scoundrel.

Re: # 129 Zeemax

What a horrible detail. It is quite clear with the details that dictator's goons i.e. MQM had everything planned ahead, with padlocks, and gasoline arranged in advance. What a horrible and disgusting bunch of people these m/fs are. May all of them rot in hell for what they do to innocent human beings.

The two columns written by Javed Choudry and Abbas Athar at www.express.com.pk are worth reading. The degree of cruelty this dicator and his fascist cohorts exhibit is just mind boggling.

Re: # 128

So let me get this straight:

Your issue is that I shouldn't criticize west because I live there; and I shouldn't criticize peons of west in Pakistan because i don't live there. And what I 'm supposed to do with pak-afghan border? Should I criticize that it is too porous because I am too munafique?. Are you on ganja or something.

KARACHI: Witnesses term Tahir Plaza attack ‘pre-planned arson’

DAWN: By S. Raza Hassan

KARACHI, April 10: When an armed mob set fire to Tahir Plaza in what appears to be a pre-planned attack, the horrifying deaths suffered by six people who were unfortunate enough to be at the wrong place at the wrong time illustrate that it is always ordinary citizens who bear the brunt of politically-triggered unrest.

Once the inferno had died down, rescue workers recovered five bodies from the sixth floor office of advocate Haji Aftab Abbasi, who occupied room 616 in the building which housed various lawyers’ offices and lies adjacent to the City Courts. A sixth body was found late Wednesday night and rescue workers told Dawn that it had apparently been wearing bangles, suggesting that at least one woman died in the blaze.

Charred beyond recognition, the bodies were taken to the Sohrab Goth Edhi morgue. While two were taken away by their heirs for burial, Dawn witnessed a number of people at the morgue on Thursday, endeavouring to find in the blackened corpses some evidence identifying them as their missing loved ones.

Amongst these grieving people was Rasheeda Begum, who feared that her relatives Razia Batool (wife of Nadeem) and Sobia (wife of Shoaib Raza) died in the Tahir Plaza arson attack. The sisters-in-law left their Gulistan-i-Jauhar block 9 home on Wednesday afternoon to visit Mr Abbasi in connection with a bail application for a relative. “Razia left her three-year-old child at home,” said Rasheeda Begum in a trembling voice. “It is not possible to identify the bodies by simply looking at them. The investigation officer said that he is in possession of some rings and bangles recovered from these remains – perhaps they will help us in the identification process.”

Waiting outside the morgue on this sombre business, Rasheeda Begum nevertheless held on to a slim ray of hope – that the two women were rescued and taken to some hospital. “I keep praying that their cell phones start working again,” she told Dawn.

Needless deaths

No such hope is available to the family of 23-year-old Danish Akhtar and his brother-in-law Syed Dawar Hussain Rizvi, who are confirmed to have been burnt alive during the arson attack.

“Danish was married just a day before his death,” his cousin Ghulam Haider told Dawn. “On Wednesday, he and Dawar went to advocate Aftab Abbasi’s office to collect the marriage certificate. They left home at about noon and at around 3:30pm or so, Danish called his mother and told her that they were soon about to head home. That was the last we heard from him.”

When Haider reached the scene of the arson attack, he found the qazi who had performed Danish’s nikah also there. “He told us that Danish and Dawar were still in the building,” said Haider. “The bodies were burnt beyond recognition. We were able to recognise Danish from a fragment of his trousers and his melted cell phone. He also had a missing tooth, which proved to be key evidence in establishing his identity.”

Danish was laid to rest in Orangi Town on Thursday night. Meanwhile his brother-in-law Dawar was also identified through personal belongings found on the body. “Perhaps it was Dawar’s turn to be called to his Maker yesterday,” said his grieving father Syed Yawar Hussain as family members attempted to console him at the Rizvia Imambargah in the afternoon.

Advocate Abbasi, meanwhile, remained with his clients to the end as he too died in the blaze and was laid to rest in Lyari. The sixth body was identified as that of 35-year-old Basit Mehmood, who the Muttahida Qaumi Movement claims was the brother of one of the party’s workers. His funeral prayers were offered in Azizabad.

Pre-planned terror

Witnesses to Wednesday’s torching of Tahir Plaza termed it a “well-planned and coordinated attack.”

An eyewitness told Dawn that following the clash at the City Courts, about a hundred young men on motorcycles arrived at Tahir Plaza and first ransacked an eatery located on the ground floor. “About half of them entered the building and started beating the caretaker,” he said. “As they entered, some of the people who sensed danger in the air ran out of the building despite being roughed up by the attackers.”

The witness said that the young men went first to the third floor office, room 309, of Naeem Qureshi. “They were carrying China-made padlocks and sacks of what appeared to be a highly-inflammable powder,” he said, a conclusion confirmed by the chief fire officer who said that such a powder had been used in most of the incidents of arson that took place on Wednesday.

“They would first padlock the doors to each office and then break the glass panes with the butts of their pistols and throw in the powder,” said the witness. “After that, a burning match tossed into the room was enough to ignite a full-blown fire.”

The witness told Dawn that in this way, the youths set fire to rooms 309, and 308 which belonged to advocate Tasuvar Hussain, rooms 116 and 117 which belonged to advocate Ali Qureshi as well as rooms 105 and 109 on the first floor.

They repeated the same procedure on the sixth floor, first locking the grille with a china lock and then throwing in the inflammable powder followed by a light. But advocate Aftab Abbasi and five of his clients were trapped in room 616; they were burnt alive by the arsonists’ actions.

Witnesses said that after the building had been thoroughly gutted, the arsonists made good their escape while resorting firing into the air, forcing everyone in the vicinity to dive for cover.

Re: # 122

urstruly,

..... i hear you, but you only have yourself to blame ...... the resaon you and other mullahs residing in the west have no credibility is because of the obvious 'munafiqat' ........ the most venemous and vocal anti-west armchair jihadis are those residing in the west..... they rant and rail against the 'evil' system even as they take advantage of everything it has to offer - freedom of speech, welfare, government cheese, subsidized housing, student loans, etc etc ........ in my personal experience the degree of 'munafiqat' is direcvtly proportional to a person's religiosity ...... i am sure there are exceptions, but they are few and far between ........... you, my friend have been pigeon holed as a munafiq - live with it ......

..... by the way, how is life on the pak-afgahn border ?

zeemax: perhaps it is a bargaining chip as you and HP say. But why do you think the chip has not been used already and the bargain made (which seems more likely to me)? and what do you think is the bargain? is it for musharraf to step down from his military rank (and thus effectively lose his source of power) and for BB to come back (which is what it seems to me)?

the fact that the cj was not immediately restored the same time he was freed has been bad for the country i think - mqm's lawlessness would have ended (including the loss of life yesterday) if it saw the cj back in his place. and mush would have been in court by now, instead of trying to upset the people's mandate.

Re: # 125 Thank you Dash, I appreciate that.