The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics

#338 hamidm: The concept of "diversity" in the news media that I refer to in #337 is clearly a challenging one for you to comprehend.

You selective quoting of right wing media does not change the fact that you can get views from across the spectrum from sources within the US (including Mills and Howard Zinn who have Masadi's approval), plus hard news, plus news and views from respected news sources outside the US in europe, middle east, and the excellent services provided by pakistan's own dynamic media industry.

btw, i see you think mush will join the q-league. does this mean Commander Hosni Mubarak will become his own lota?

Dost,

I did not say that you did. Someone else (HP, I think) implied it from your post.

GT#265:

I did not imply that "Bhaiyya" culture dominates Delhi, even though younger Punjabis now call their elder brother bhaiyya instead of Bhappaji.

Re: # 337

tahmed,

... do you want to buy some real estate in michigan ? ....... do you really think all these anchors and other talking heads on mainstream media like nbc, msnbc,cbs,cnn and fox are 'independent' ?...... all these idiots - lou dobbs, wolf blitzer, tim russert, bill o'reilly - are out their mouthing off their opinios and i wouldn't be surprised if they are on somones's payroll in some form or fshion ......... how many of these guys end up as staffers, press secretaries, speech writers and cocktail party goers at the white house ? .... you really are a gullible fool !

......... as for pakistani 'journalists', i think they are pakis first and foremost - that makes them suspect from the git go ...... anyone born and raised in that culture of corruption and nepotism can be bought if the price is right ....

HP #318 On the independence of the media - Unless you consider books to not be part of the information media, then by recommending that book to me you are indicating that the media in fact does provide independent views.
:-) The media after all is not a monolithic beast - and the spread of the internet has made it ever more diverse. Thanks for recommending the book though - I am finishing the 700 page "People's History of the United States" (which even has Masadi's approval!!), and have a few books on other subjects next in line. But will try to check out this book you recommend at some point.

On Pakistani journalists I think you are being too skeptical. Do you consider journalists who put their lives at risk to go to remote tribal areas, with many having been killed in the process, to be "lifafa journalists"? I think they are national heroes in the freedom struggle who will be remembered long after you and I are dust.

Re: # 333

ferozk,

... i agree that as things stand now that army would prefer to stay away from politics while maintaining their monopoly over breakfast cereal, cement and fertilizer ..... at the same time, kiyani would like to keep musharraf in place to protect the army's 'honor' ..... if things get real bad they will work out some face saving formula and i wouldn't be surprised if musharraf takes over the q-league from the thieves of gujrat .... the unwashed masses are an unpredictable lot and he could be a formidable opponent in the next elections .........

..... i think the only way the army will intervene directly is if the skirmish between ib and zeemax flares into a full fledged civil war - which, given the thuggish nature of our politicians, is always a real possibility ......

#319 rf: Please stay within the boundries of reason. By your argument, the government should not take coercive action when someone breaks the law (whether it is coordinated atrocities of the mqm-kind or destruction of property by mobs). And by your argument, the military should never be called in to maintain internal law and order (every democratic country in the world considers the military to be the force of last resort if police are unable to contain internal disturbances).

You are merely wasting your time and my time with such absurd arguments. If you really believe them yourself, then you are entitled to do that and you have my sympathies. Have a good day, sahib.

Re: # 189
You are right Zeemax Charas in as much as I have known was never considered Haram by "them" which included many ethnicities in Pakistan, but, as I learn it is beyond charas in the current era.
There is nothing bad with the transport business and any business is not bad it is the monopolizing mafia system which introduces the bad side in any business; as a host nation Pakistan has done more than their part for the distressed Afghans due to the Soviet war but Pakistan has a bigger responsibility for it's own and should not be held responsible for carrying the refugees any longer.
You are right about the sad ordeal of several families who are "sufaid posh" type and chose to earn their living by having their innocent kids collect recyclables instead of opting for other avenues for acquiring wealth at a higher speed definitely my heart goes out for those little ones and I wish I could do something to support them.

re: HP

I will post a reply to you soon, but in the meantime; will say this. I never said that Pakistani army's orientation has changed, but that it is in the process of changing. It has been undergoing a change ever since Pakistan realized that it is no longer in a position to fight a war with India. Your view of the Pakistani army is a very traditional one, but the mindset of the Pakistani army is not that of the urban corps commanders any more, but of the rural middle class. Pakistani army, presently, is not interested in politics and it does not want to intervene in it because the result of political involvment since 1999 has been the worst institutional damage to it since the defeat in 1971.

Please read the speeches of its leadership since the early 1990s and read some of the in-house journals. They all point to a re-think within the army and as to the American advisors; they will come regardless of what you and I think. If this war in FATA continues, then we will a new generation of officers, moulded in COIN operations assuming the leadership of the army in the next 10-20 years. In the new thinking/doctrine, the strike crops will lessen in importance to the SSG units, which are being upgraded and increased to fight a COIN war in FATA.

The army does not have to stay in politics to keep its business interests intact. The Pakistani army will adopt, over a period of time, the role of the Turkish army and it will pull the strings from behind the curtain. There has been too much exposure of the military's business interests and the documentation of it in Ayesha Siddiqui's book for example, that has opened a new debate on the issue. With the freedom of the media and the recent scaling back of PEMRA, the new parliament will debate this issue. One of the ways to bring the military to accountibility will to review the defense budget in public and from there, we will see what happens next.

Wishes may indeed be horses, but you have to credit that Pakistan is changing and the vast majority of the Pakistani people, in the last decade, have matured considerably politically speaking and with the legal movement of 2007 still fresh in the minds of many, have become aware of their rights. These rights will be demanded soon, but we will have to be patient. :)

The only issue is when to confront the army. The political institutions and the political parties and their cadres are still not that strong yet. This is speculative, but it might be a reason why there is a growing seperation of opinion between PPP and PML-N. Nawaz Sharif wants a confrontation with Musharraf - read the military - but Asif Zardari wants to avoid this confontation till and untill, PPP is strong enough to challenge the military and win.

In the last eight years, and even before that, the military tried to dominate the civilian politics only to see a massive reaction against its trespass of civilian authority. If the military persists as you envision, there is a very good chance that it will risk losing more than its business interests, epecially since Punjab is not in the pro-military camp any more. For the first time, to the best of my recollection, the four provinces of Pakistan are united in their unmasked opposition to military rule.

The military knows this and here lies the rub. Both sides are at a position of stalemate, where none can deliver a knockout punch, so there is a good chance that there will some sort of accomodation between the two. Here is a possible scenrio; article 52-B in exchange for regularization of military's commerical interests in the civilian economy (tax liabilities imposed) and the total withdrawl of the military from politics and in return, it is allowed to keep its business interests as a financial incentive.

Will the military take the sop and leave? It will once it realizes that to seek a situation of a status quo ante in 2008, will entail a more severe loss of its overall interests.

COAS Kiyani is replacing key officers in important positions with his own selections and he will pick like-minded men; men who agree with his "vision". Therefore, if his intitial decisions are any indication, the army will pull back from politics and the new "inner sanctum" of the army will endorse Kiyani's new mantra for Pakistani army. Just like you said an army's orientation cannot be changed overnight; this will also take time but it will happen as Kiyani consolidates his tenure as COAS.

HP, the Pakistani army is not same army it was before Kiyani took over and it is certainly a different army after February 28 elections. Who do you think disallowed the ISI to intervene in the elections? What was Kiyani's previous posting before becoming COAS? It is safe to assume that while he was there at ISI, he fielded his staff of important positions, with officers who thought like him.

Ciao

Re: # 331
What is representation? it's the majority - majority in parliment and from that particular area MQM is in atleast 92% majority.

Yes, ANP won two local seats - thats right.

IB sahib,

(MQM is the sole representative of Urban Sind )

So you are saying that Altaf bhai is the Sole Spokesman for the Urban Sindhi? (to paraphrase Ms. Ayesha Jalal)

Btw do Urban Sindhis who are Pushtoons also vote for MQM? I understand ANP won a few seats in Pushtoon dominated parts of Karachi.

Regards

Re: # 327
The ‘Quota Mongers’ in Pakistan and this is I am quoting it from Nusrat Javed (an anchor of Bolta Pakistan on AJJ TV) that ‘ if Britain could introduce a system called ‘positive discrimination’ why can’t we?’ – How disturbing is that to a deserving person.

One of the biggest reasons why MQM is MQM is because of ‘Quota System’.

Re: # 327 maju bhai,
Think rationally please, MQM is a representative of significant portions of Karachi and Urban Sind and there(s) no other political group which rivals her. So it’s understood that MQM is the sole representative of Urban Sind until and unless JI wins even 30-40% of the seats.
Cheers

As they say kay ‘misery is almost always the result of thinking’. And somehow we are a bunch of ‘skeptic’ and ‘criticizing’ people back in the land of pure. It’s a genetic disorder which can not be sorted out.
We are Urdus have it - I must confess we are (for reasons – although there can not be any rationale for violence) are ‘urban militants’ or ‘secular talebans’ who are at times selfish to an extent and ignore the basic concept of humanity and the religion we follow – that is ‘sharing’. And I am sure the rest of the ‘nations’ in Pakistan are the same.
All the prejudice apart, I had been posted to parts of rural Sindh where a family have not seen ‘meat’ forget about eating it; people who are living in the age of Mughals. All the faults of not just feudal (it’s easier to blame them for all the sins) but ours as a nation. Collective Responsibility lies on each and everyone one of us for those who dies of hunger, commit suicide and for those who are rottening because they don’t have ‘Quaid-e-Azam’.

Let me narrate a very personal story when I was 24. At the Pizza Hut Gulshan, Karachi. I organized a birthday brunch for friends – for about good 40 folks I spend about Rs. 10000 on pizzas and whatnot – when we all finished and I went out; I saw a baby girl dying from hunger. That day my life changed. I made a pledge to lead a very ‘ordinary life’ and Alhumdullah I am leading one – with skeletons attached.

IB sahib,

(separate Karachi, Hyderabad from Sindh and make it a different province)

Well in that case wouldnt the Sindhi, Punjoo and Pushtoon majority wards of Karachi and Hyderabad be entitled to separate from Karachi, no?

(full provincial autonomy)

Absolutely. This is in line with Lahore Resolution, 1940, the principle on which Pakistan was created.

(end of quota system in government jobs, state university seats )

Right again. Sindhis are not a discriminated community that they shud need protection.

Regards

Well then Balochistan has a significant portion of Pashtoons too – probably more then the Baloch themselves; why not ask them?

HP Sain, it’s the Sindis who divided Sindh Dharti into two – Urban and Rural; now you have to bear with the sin you committed. HP Sian, I really have great respect for you but as rightly pointed by a brother here that somehow (with due respect) you suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Your extreme positions does not work in 2008 – please get out of 1990’s.

MQM represents Urban and PPP rural – there(s) no doubt about it and as the representative party of Urban Sindh – MQM has all the rights to demand for a work permit (although it would not be the right choice ethically).

Zeemax Bhai following are the demands of MQM.

a) separate Karachi, Hyderabad from Sindh and make it a different province
b) full provincial autonomy
c) end of quota system in government jobs, state university seats