The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics

Author,

Aitzaz Ahsan is on his way out of the lawyers’ movement and this incident has given him that much-needed space.

Outdated info. Aitezaz Ahsan withdrew his resignation yesterday after details were revealed re Punjab interim administration's involvement and plain-clothes policemen identified pushing and dragging Sher Afgan.

They are sure that the thrashing of Afgan has killed two birds with one stone — it has thrown a spanner in the so-far unbeaten lawyers’ movement

After the events of Karachi yesterday, the moral high ground of Lawyer's movement is regained when 5 Lawyers including a woman were burnt alive in their chamber by MQM.

Yes I also feel that "ours is a new world now" where every one is taking law in his hands & doing justice by beating people severly with out even giving consideration to their age & health .What kind of awareness is this which is giving the lesson to forget respect of elders???

Re: # 1
Dear zeemax! "on his way out" here does not mean that Aitzaz has abruptly left the lawyers in the lurch. Secondly, it is not my personal opinion.
I agree, the events in Karachi have strenghtened the lawyers' movement.

well written article Naqvi Sahab.

I wonder who will be next in the list of civil society/lawyers 'to do list' after Naeem Bukhari, Tariq Azeem, Farooq Sattar, Ahmed Raza Qusoori, Arbab Raheem, and Shef Afgan :)

I think we are missing the point here.
Zardari can dilute the political process all he wants by including all and sundry into the fold..
The fact is that he wants to erase his corruption charges, which requirs currying favour with the establishment and ditching CJ Chaudhry....

Very soon everyone will read into him. ZARDARI cannot continue to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds....

.... as cowasjee would say : "sala sub chor hai - in ko jootay maro !" ....... and that is exactly what is happening - civil society, the lawyers, musharraf, zardari, the sharif bradran, mqm, altaphbai and the unwashed masses deserve each other ......... the only honorable people in all of pakistan are the inhabitants of heera mandi who have continued to provide essential services through all this turmoil ......

p.s. rumor has it that gilani saw off musharraf at the airport with tears in his eyes - the poor guy doesn't think he can handle it by himself ......... let's hope musharraf comes back from his trip safe and sound to hold gilani's hand ........

#5 good point. Zardari has probably lost the foothold he had found in terms of rehab of his image from mr. 10 percent to mr. statesman. He may still recover if the cj is restored and he then allows justice to take its course.

#6 hamidm: you are beginning to sound as hollow and monotonous as masadi and his us elite.

"rumor has it that gilani saw off musharraf at the airport with tears in his eyes - the poor guy doesn't think he can handle it by himself ......."

Hamid, I actually saw this on Geo this morning. The PM appeared reserved and after shaking hands when Mushy tried to embrace the PM, he backed off. Bad vibes all around. They just followed the protocol. I think hamid you have become a rumormonger...Zee's influence?

the twenty rupee whore and the big bad thanedar

Re: # 9

hp mian and bholay shah tahmed,

..... i am just trying to keep us honest so that we are not terribly disappointed when the mouse comes out of this erupting mountain ......

..... look, it is obvious that things are not turning out as bright and shiny as we had all hoped for .... zardari is behaving like a twenty rupee whore in a police station where musharraf is the thanedar ...... nawaz sharif is behaving like the dalal who suspects her of running away and cutting him out of his commisssion ..... the lawyers are behaving like college students who, after getting 'student concessions' from her, had proclaimed her as their sister and are now upset that she is still a whore ............. and in all this drama, the other whores have raised their rates and the poor public is reduced to jacking off ............ it is sad

A society where most people are used to having "a sayaan as their kotwaal", the earnest advice is, "keep your shoes where your mouth is".

.... talking about whores and rumors, i just heard that the droopy eyed cj will be restored, fired and appointed as ambassador to fiji on the same day! .... the fijians are ecstatic !

#12 hamidm: "i am just trying to keep us honest so that we are not terribly disappointed "

your love for the great hosni mubarak and your contempt for the "unwashed masses" shines through in #6 (e.g.), no matter how hard you claim.

ps: i think HP politely called you a liar in #9.

Re: # 13

tahmed,

.... hp didn't 'call' me a liar, he knows i made up the story ....... you really are 'masoom'!

....... but it is nice to have people like you around - this world would be an awful place if everyone was a cynic like me ..........

p.s. the story about the cj's appointement as ambassador to fiji is true .......... naaat !

hamidm#14 sorry to break this to you, but when someone accuses you of spreading false rumors, that is the same as calling you a liar (a bit worse actually).

and btw, when you contradict yourself (as you do every time you claim you are merely being realistic while unable to hide your contempt for the "unwashed" and your love for the "enlightened babu"), you make yourself a liar as well.

tahmed,

.... what am i going to do with you ! .... bewakoof aadmi - the unwashed deserve our contempt (along with our sympathy, pity and tax deductible charity) ...... they deserve our contempt because they are stupid - how else would you characterize a person who is wallowing in the gutter and doesn't have enough sense to get out ? ...... there is something wrong with the muslim psyche that keeps thme mired in misery while the rest of the world has moved on ....... you cannot blame the enlightened babu for taking advantage of the fools !

#16 good. now that you have dropped your pretense of "merely being realistic" and come out on which side you are on, we can have an honest discussion.

so "the unwashed deserve our contempt..because they are stupid"? that has to be the dumbest statement i have heard!

#17 and if you are so smart - would you care to explain why you believe it is in your self-interest to see Pakistan run without laws than run with laws?

musharraf resigns !

..... president musharraf just announced his resignation ...... he said, "aitizaz ahsan resigned, altphbhai resigned - what am i ? ... chopped liver! ..... i resign to with immediate effect the modalalaties of which would be decided upon in the near future after consultation with the interested parties and the pakistani awam "

........ upon hearing this, pm gilani and my sister's khansama also resigned ....... within hours, the khansama, a member of the unwashed masses, withdrew his resignation, saying, "hum gharib aadmi hain, hum ko yeh isteefa wisteefa acha nahin lagta .... yeh baray logon kay kaam hain" ...... upon hearing this tahmed also withdrew his resignation as the upholder of truth and justice on chowk; he said, "bhar mein jai yeh isteefa ! ..... if i don't this what the heck am i going to do ?" ....... mrs tahmed was relieved that tahmed sahib remains gainfully employed ............

hamidm #19 i am merely trying to uphold my personal interest in a lawful pakistan. and still await enlightenment on why a lawless pakistan is better.

as for mqm, when they identify the killers of 4/9 and of 5/12 to justice, then you will know they are being serious. this resignation means nothing.

Re: # 20

tahmed,

..... i think you should resign too ........ a lawful pakistan is just not possible - yeh 'law waw' hamarey tabiyat ko raas nahin aata .......we people thrive on anarchy and only understand the rule of danda (as epitomized by omar ibn khattab) ... it is futile hoping for the impossible ......

LOL hamidm hahaha

#21 so this is your answer to what i said in #18: "we people thrive on anarchy and only understand the rule of danda"?

i assume you are being funny - or are you really clueless on the answer to my question in #18. or simply not willing to share your personal interest in all this on the internet (which is perhaps better than being a lota out of sheer habit).

tahmed yaar..you promised that now that democracy is in pakistan..the civilian gov't and army will go after the jihadi choots...any progress on that front?

#24 ca: please dont distract this discussion while hamidm is reflecting upon his bad habits.

yaar that is part of the whole lawful and lawlessness schtick that you are guys are masturbating each other with. It is the core problem.

Re: # 25

tahmed,

..... since you are not going to resign, i will resign ! ...... i am hereby tendering my resignation as the voice of sanity on chowk - and i am not coming back even if you beg me to come back ........

....... i am done ... good bye !

Re: # 20

dear tahmed32

I agree with you, all victims of 12/05 and 9/04 deserve justice.

By the way, I hope you remember the victims of MQM. 12 killed on 12th May and 6 on 9th April. In the same spirit, I propose justice for the hundreds of innocent people killed by NS and BB in the nineties. Justice for all of the innocent Sindhis killed by that murdering Zia ul phuck. Justice for our Baloch neighbors killed by the murdering army generals. Finally, justice for all of the innocent Pakistani citizens killed in East Pakistan by the marauding army and their cohort JI.

Re: # 28

rf786,

... tahmed, like the rest of them, believes in selective justice ..... the kind that was handed out to the jews of medina after the battle of khandaq

Re: # 27

hamidm2

If you resign, I also resign and Altaf Bhai has promised resignations of Zeemax, Tahmed32, Urstruly etc etc.

Re: # 29

hamidm2,

tahmed32 needs to take a trip with NS and his baboons, that is his recommended medicine and punishment.

#28 rf: by your reasoning, no criminal should be caught because theirs is not the only crime that was ever committed. i am not surprised hamidm agrees with you.

The fact is that on May 12, mqm took to the streets in support of a military dictator - and thus was entirely responsible for every single death that took place. People across pakistan had come out in peaceful processions to welcome the cj whereever he went - and mqm betrayed the entire nation that day. as has every single individual who has supported musharraf's treating the pakistani constitution like a piece of scrap paper.

This is the truth - and no amount of clever talk by hamidm is going to change this. I dont expect either of you to change your views, so this is my final post on this. You can call me stupid etc. if that helps you feel better at betraying the nation where you were born and raised.

Re: # 32

tahmed32

I can understand and respect your views regarding CH and PM, but to pass judgment on me and hamidm2, that I will not accept or allow. By the same right that was bestowed upon thee, allow me to question your loyalty to the land of pure. How can the CJ of any country politicize the honorable seat of justice and find loyalist who assume the role of judge, jury and executioner? With all due respect to your honorable yet flawed perspective, if Mush was guilty so was the CJ.

In my book both of these morons needs to go before they inflict further damage to Pakistan.

rf786,

Please read the Dawn article below and tell me which ones were the MQM burnt alive?

KARACHI: Witnesses term Tahir Plaza attack ‘pre-planned arson’

DAWN: By S. Raza Hassan

KARACHI, April 10: When an armed mob set fire to Tahir Plaza in what appears to be a pre-planned attack, the horrifying deaths suffered by six people who were unfortunate enough to be at the wrong place at the wrong time illustrate that it is always ordinary citizens who bear the brunt of politically-triggered unrest.

Once the inferno had died down, rescue workers recovered five bodies from the sixth floor office of advocate Haji Aftab Abbasi, who occupied room 616 in the building which housed various lawyers’ offices and lies adjacent to the City Courts. A sixth body was found late Wednesday night and rescue workers told Dawn that it had apparently been wearing bangles, suggesting that at least one woman died in the blaze.

Charred beyond recognition, the bodies were taken to the Sohrab Goth Edhi morgue. While two were taken away by their heirs for burial, Dawn witnessed a number of people at the morgue on Thursday, endeavouring to find in the blackened corpses some evidence identifying them as their missing loved ones.

Amongst these grieving people was Rasheeda Begum, who feared that her relatives Razia Batool (wife of Nadeem) and Sobia (wife of Shoaib Raza) died in the Tahir Plaza arson attack. The sisters-in-law left their Gulistan-i-Jauhar block 9 home on Wednesday afternoon to visit Mr Abbasi in connection with a bail application for a relative. “Razia left her three-year-old child at home,” said Rasheeda Begum in a trembling voice. “It is not possible to identify the bodies by simply looking at them. The investigation officer said that he is in possession of some rings and bangles recovered from these remains – perhaps they will help us in the identification process.”

Waiting outside the morgue on this sombre business, Rasheeda Begum nevertheless held on to a slim ray of hope – that the two women were rescued and taken to some hospital. “I keep praying that their cell phones start working again,” she told Dawn.

Needless deaths

No such hope is available to the family of 23-year-old Danish Akhtar and his brother-in-law Syed Dawar Hussain Rizvi, who are confirmed to have been burnt alive during the arson attack.

“Danish was married just a day before his death,” his cousin Ghulam Haider told Dawn. “On Wednesday, he and Dawar went to advocate Aftab Abbasi’s office to collect the marriage certificate. They left home at about noon and at around 3:30pm or so, Danish called his mother and told her that they were soon about to head home. That was the last we heard from him.”

When Haider reached the scene of the arson attack, he found the qazi who had performed Danish’s nikah also there. “He told us that Danish and Dawar were still in the building,” said Haider. “The bodies were burnt beyond recognition. We were able to recognise Danish from a fragment of his trousers and his melted cell phone. He also had a missing tooth, which proved to be key evidence in establishing his identity.”

Danish was laid to rest in Orangi Town on Thursday night. Meanwhile his brother-in-law Dawar was also identified through personal belongings found on the body. “Perhaps it was Dawar’s turn to be called to his Maker yesterday,” said his grieving father Syed Yawar Hussain as family members attempted to console him at the Rizvia Imambargah in the afternoon.

Advocate Abbasi, meanwhile, remained with his clients to the end as he too died in the blaze and was laid to rest in Lyari. The sixth body was identified as that of 35-year-old Basit Mehmood, who the Muttahida Qaumi Movement claims was the brother of one of the party’s workers. His funeral prayers were offered in Azizabad.

Pre-planned terror

Witnesses to Wednesday’s torching of Tahir Plaza termed it a “well-planned and coordinated attack.”

An eyewitness told Dawn that following the clash at the City Courts, about a hundred young men on motorcycles arrived at Tahir Plaza and first ransacked an eatery located on the ground floor. “About half of them entered the building and started beating the caretaker,” he said. “As they entered, some of the people who sensed danger in the air ran out of the building despite being roughed up by the attackers.”

The witness said that the young men went first to the third floor office, room 309, of Naeem Qureshi. “They were carrying China-made padlocks and sacks of what appeared to be a highly-inflammable powder,” he said, a conclusion confirmed by the chief fire officer who said that such a powder had been used in most of the incidents of arson that took place on Wednesday.

“They would first padlock the doors to each office and then break the glass panes with the butts of their pistols and throw in the powder,” said the witness. “After that, a burning match tossed into the room was enough to ignite a full-blown fire.”

The witness told Dawn that in this way, the youths set fire to rooms 309, and 308 which belonged to advocate Tasuvar Hussain, rooms 116 and 117 which belonged to advocate Ali Qureshi as well as rooms 105 and 109 on the first floor.

They repeated the same procedure on the sixth floor, first locking the grille with a china lock and then throwing in the inflammable powder followed by a light. But advocate Aftab Abbasi and five of his clients were trapped in room 616; they were burnt alive by the arsonists’ actions.

Witnesses said that after the building had been thoroughly gutted, the arsonists made good their escape while resorting firing into the air, forcing everyone in the vicinity to dive for cover.

I don't see cockroach_5 today, though I see the moron createUllukapatha. Anything wrong?

Re: # 34

Zeemax

Nowhere in this article does it implicate, name or identify the culprits. You are making the same old stereotypical assumption based on pre-conditioned biases that it had to be the MQM.

Why not the PML-N goons? We all know who was behind the Sher Afghan thrashing, who has links with MQM-Haqiqi none other but NS.

Having said that, it could have been MQM, but then again they had families of the victims of 9th April present on the stage when AH made his drama speech.

Perception versus reality, I choose reality.

Re: # 16
unfortunately you amke sense.

#36 Posted by rf786,

Bhai, I can only laugh at this post. No comments.

MQM has a history of killing people and taking their dead bodies at gunpoint to nine zero for janaza prayers and claim that the deceased was one of theirs.

Moreover, any victim in localities controlled by them can be claimed as their worker/supporter and the victim's family dare not say otherwise.

Just a clarification. They had families of the burnt clients present inside when they locked the grill - who were Urdu speaking. I don't know what stories they fed them. Actually buried those dead adjacent to nine-zero.

The lawyer whose office was burnt, was active in the Lawyer's movement, was Sindhi speaking, and was buried wrapped in a PPP flag elsewhere.

Now do tell me again who killed them.

Re: # 33

rf786,

..... a lot of people are proposing the plus-2 formula which restores the cj and also keeps mushy - this seems to be the concensus view among well menaing but stupid, people whj want to 'keep the peace' ........... i like your minus-2 formula much better ...... these two clowns should be assigned as ambassadors to fiji and chad ......... not that it is going to help anything - people like nawaz sharif, zardari, altaph bhai and the chaudary bradran will make mushy look like a saint .....

Re: # 41

Gopi sahib,

why are you still supporting these politicians? what is so sacred about them? let them go after each other. several billions of US aid is at stake.

all this is a drama to divide the unwashed masses. finally Pakistani people will become powerful and get rid of all of them, unfortunately great violence is in store for Pakistan.

people's power should continue kicking their ass. this should continue for a long time to flush out the evils amongst Pakistani politicians. once a while, we need cleansing.

they now know atta-daal kaa bhau. people are now smiling that all these rascals are humilitating themselves. just be careful, i might use a masaadi on you.

bogus pakistani evil promoting politicians deserve worse than what is happening.

The King Cobra of London threatened to give up the command post but then kindly reconsidered his decision when the workers decided to go on hunger-strike. Imagine, the flour these folks might have saved!

"We want our leader, not our destination!", they chanted in response to growls emanating from the loudspeakers; direct from London.

"This is your last chance!" he warned the cheering fools as he climbed atop the throne once again.

To make so much fuss over a leader who merely went to the toilet to relieve himself! Is there a label for this?

so the grand mirzai experiment on Chwok is a success!

Imagine a muslim, in the full knowledge of the quraan comes to know Allah personally. Once you know Allah personally who need the The Prophet, whn you can profit from this knowledge yourself.

Propagate your new religion - as in call yourself Prophet and repeat The old Prophet messages (after the quraan is almost a compilation of the revelations of Allah to The Prophet(PBUH) along with other scriptures (judaic and Christian)) together with your revelation are packaged and viola you have your flock - muslim in name.

The Mirzais are the same.

With me so far.

Now along comes another half mirzai - claiming to have found GOD. He got to know Allah personally, but the chutiya will not admit it publicly but in stage whispers, in third person and using the concept of chinese whispers spread the story that he knows Allah.

no one catches this bhund ke aulaad. tHIS GANDOO SHOULD BE locked up and cast out as a Mirzai as per Pakistan's law, and Islamic Theology.

Nothing happens. this gandoo is free to roam Chowk and abuse every one to his hearts content.

Is this is the next step....sleath?

Abey gandoo Zeemax chutiye khullam khulla bol tu naya Mirza hain, madarchod.

Re: # 41

Hamidm sahib:

You are really into politics. We used to call it "Kutte Khassi" karna in my student days in Delhi.

As a minority group (Urdu speaking) MQM does our dirty work. Fortunately or Unfortunately, MQM is our counter group (like Sin Fin of the Irish, Hizbul Mujahideen of the Kashmir’s) against Fascist Sindis and Power Mongering Paindoo Punjabis; not to mention the Pashtoons who needs to be kept in check in Karachi.

Although I’m sorry and grieved for the tragic loss of life on personal basis but delighted at the quick wits of the leadership of MQM as it was a ‘much needed action’ – post Sindi Government in Sind and Punjabi Fascist Lohar Government in Punjab.

What we achieved after the action? Total dominance in Karachi, Hyderabad, Confidence Boosters for our community apart from power sharing on 60/40 basis in Sind.

As for lawyers, I wish more gets killed!!!!

Bravo MQM, Bravooo!

Re: # 45

anil mian,

........... so many dogs and so little time!

re Altaf resignation bit,

There were two messages in it...

For the country it said, He was not involved in this..i.e. He is not in control of everything..

For those in control of the thugs, he said, stop it.

Now the question is, who controls these soldiers?

power mongering paindu panjabi hamidm: in #46, this mqm genius just defined you for what you are. Now run up to him like a good lota and tell him how much you agree with him:

and, in a twisted sense, he defines you accurately:

"power mongering" - with your clear creed the might is right and applause for the hosni mubarak-wannabe.

"paindu" - with your inability to understand the difference between a civilized and uncivilized society (i.e. the rule of law) despite living in the US and applauding "goras"

"panjabi" - i suppose this applies only 50% to you, but then no one other than an mqm racist or a gora-worshipping racist cares about your ethnicity.

:-)

1Safe #48 while i partly agree with you, lets not discredit the term "soldiers" to the murderers who locked up innocent people inside buildings and set those buildings on fires.

as for altaf and his racist followers - the less said the better. i just hope that justice prevails in Pakistan.

tahmed32,

The drama yesterday was a message to PPP that without MQM, they can form a Government but cannot run it nor have peace in Karachi. This is why they burnt six people alive, and then Altaf Husain blamed the lawyers for provocation, but at the same time accepted responsibility on the city administration's (MQM) part. He actually pronounced MQM did it. Then resigned castigating his own administration, and took it back in an hour, while saying he extends a hand to PML-N in friendship. (never mind the BS about UN investigation and all that for public consumption).

It was a condescending gesture in that having proved a point, he can burn people alive and no one can do anything about it, and will do it again unless everyone else complies with his wishes. And everyone cheered at nine-zero.

This is very serious. This move will will lead to civil-war in Karachi. Rural Sindhis and other ethnicities pitted against Urdu-speaking.

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Civil War? We are prepared for it!!!!
After the elections , MQM was in reconciliation mood ; accepted the verdict and mandate given to the Sindi Fascists (PPP), Punjabi Fascists (PML-N) and Pakhtoonkhuas Nationalists (ANP) but what do we get out of good will ? Nothing!!!

Its was evident that post-PPP government in Sind (or any government) minus MQM would somehow undo whatever development done by the MQM apart would create a huge communicational gap between the urban and rural Sind (keeping in mind the Sindi Fascist attitude post-Benazir killing) and the statements coming from PPP leaders from Karachi Chapter – Naveed Gabol in particular.

Unfortunately violence is the only way left to show the uncivilized rural jerks who is in charge of Urban Sind. It’s a common feeling among Ahal-e-Zubaan that Sindis would eat them the vary day when MQM is not there – which proved right on the 27th of December, 2007.

A note on our newly appointed lizard eater CM Pir Manhoos that since he took over he transferred if not all but 2/3 of Police SHOs, TPO’s, DIG’s and now even a Sind IG (co-incidentally with exception of the IG all of the police officers are Urdu Speaking Men).

Right or Wrong, MQM is a reality, bitter to the passere-zameen and sweet to us *urdus*.

Zeemax - you are acting like the female version of Brutas and Mir Jaffar!!!

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... and I'm sure your desire for violence will be amply sated.

zeemax #51 This is indeed a test for the new government - if it is able to apprehend and bring to court the culprits (which include the big thugs behind the street thugs), then it would have established its credibility with the people. If not, then we have some serious problems of lawlessness coming up in the future.

As for mqm, I think there is a significant segment in the urdu-speaking community who are not just as appalled as the rest of Pakistan at the continued and murderous attacks by mqm. Many of them are no doubt bullied or intimidated into submission. So this puts the burden all the more on the new government to stop its pandering to mqm and to do its job to uphold the law and to bring criminals to justice. It owes this not just to the rest of Pakistan, but to the patriotic Pakistanis who are labelled for its own political purposes as "mohajirs" by mqm.

in #56, the first line second para should read "who are just as appalled"

Zeemax, r*****, for the record MQM got 25 not 19 seats in the NA and it’s not about the quantity but quality which matters. We are in charge of the chief port, the largest city of Pakistan apart from the economical hub of Pakistan thanks to those 19 + 6 seats.

MQM never had global national agenda – we know our limitations. Infact me and lot of Ahal-e-Zubaan advocates that MQM reverts backs to ‘Mohajirs Qaumi Movement’. We are happy in Karachi, Hyderabad, Sukker, Nawabshah and Urban Sind and could not ask for more.

On a personal note, I had been one of those people who personally witnessed the burned bodies day before yesterday and although its sad that those died but I think those died during the rioting saved lifes of thousands who would have been killed in future if 9/10 of April would not have had happened.

The lizard eating Sindis, Daughter selling Pujabis should stop mendling in the affairs of Karachi and Urban Sind or the situation would be that of a Punjabi in Quetta or a Army Goon in Waziristan.

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Re: # 56,
“zeemax #51 This is indeed a test for the new government - if it is able to apprehend and bring to court the culprits (which include the big thugs behind the street thugs), then it would have established its credibility with the people. If not, then we have some serious problems of lawlessness coming up in the future”

Sind CM already on record called for the inquiry commision to be formed by Justice Siddique (our man in Courts) – guess what? Doostoo ka Doost ….(rofl)

#56 Posted by tahmed32,

there is a significant segment in the urdu-speaking community who are not just as appalled as the rest of Pakistan

No doubt this is correct. However, into the holocaust MQM is pushing the urdu-speaking into, no one will remember your words.

#58 Posted by IB,

Okay, 25 seats (including reserved seats right?) out of 342. Have I got my math correct now?

Do go on ...

Re: # 59
Our ancestors migrated for Pakistan but we found ‘Punjabistan’ , Sindu-Desh so on the rationale of ‘when in rome’ – we formed our own ‘derh inche ke masjid’ on ethinic lines.

Urban Warfare? Holocost? We are ready for it .. come please? We know who Karachi Police would be supporting , this time?
btw, MQM represents 4/5 of the Urdu Speaking Nation while 1/5 are still JI men and women!!!

Saleem Chauhan Bhai where are youuuuuuu?

...contd...#59

... in the same manner that the same variety are suffering Stateless in Bangladeshi camps for having followed Al-Badr and Al-Shams against the indigenous population.

#65,

Salim_chauhan no longer supports MQM after 12 May 2007. Even less so after 9 April 2008. He is not blind. Find someone else.

Re: # 66 you f***!!!

wasay, lesson learned - don't help the state , JI ...

I don't support MQM either, thing is we use MQM as our tool, weapon...

Salim Chauhan, I doubt, I doubt .....maybe out of emotions he would have wrote something he shouldn't have and regrets !!!

zeemax mian,

.... ib shib does have a point - it is the quality that matters and not the quantity ...... the way i look at it, a refined urdu-speaking mohajir is equal to 5 punjabis or 10 pathans or 15 sindhis or baluchs ... now you do the math - it seems that mqm has at least 125 seats ....

... look, you cannot compare the vote of a dhoti-tripping paindu from lalamusa or a niswar chewing sheep loving khan sahib from batagram to that of a city sophisticate from karachi ....as a matter of fact, you cannot compare a thaga from gowalmandi to a babu from north nazimabad either ..... as a potohari i have always been painfully aware of how inadequate we people are compared to the karachi walas and am still in awe of my urdu-speaking bhabi who refers to herself as the royal 'hum' while calling us 'tu' and 'tum' .... leave ib alone, he is right ......

Salim Bhai , we would resign if you don't come back!!! (rofl)

hamidm #70: That was a 7 lota post, hamidm!! You outdo yourself every day!!

Re: # 70,

Hamid bhai,
Wasay Patwari Bhe tu Set hain Na? I was deputed Raja Parwaiz’s Security Officer recently when he came to Karachi for a Press Conference and KESC – I found him to be very good human. I actually mentioned that ‘sir mubarak hoo , humaree taraf say’ and he replied, ‘ kin se, mqm ke ya police ke’ and I replied ‘ donooo’ and we all laughed.

I rememebr we tag'd once for Shiekh Rashids arguement.

(PS. Salam to our bhabi – wasay hum kehnay walay bihar kay hotay hain )

Acha guys on a more serious not?

Check out the picture of Manto and the person who 'hit' Sher Afghan?

I had been working on it for couple of days and I concluded that 'it was our Manto who hit Sher Afghan'...

#61 zeemax: I dont think there is going to be any armageddon, like you think. For the rest of Pakistan, mqm's criminal actions are a localised problem for people in karachi to deal with.

So, what we'll either see either continued lawlessness if the new government proves unable to the task, or we'll see things improve for karachi it if the new government does its job.

Re: # 70; hamidm [you cannot compare a thaga from gowalmandi to a babu from north nazimabad either]

by that logic, born in a Punjabi Jatt family and having spent some years in Gowalmandi in my youth, I really didn't stand a chance!!!

I do take your point though

Cheers

Re: # 76 akcheema sahab,
you are an exception, we could compare you to someone from KDA Scheme 1 in Karachi - and still you , theres no match!!!

akcheema #78 greetings, dr sahib. hope you are in good health and spirits on this fine saturday (or whatever day it is in Australia).

So Marshall Race Theory proved!!!!!

aside to hamidm: no need to perk up your ears. when i said "spirits" i did not mean those kind of spirits.

compare zeemax to a lalukhati and the lalukhati would say something like, ' get the standards up a little '

Re: # 74

ib mian,

... i am not a violent man, but i believe that people like sher afghan, masadi, arbab rahim and wasi zafar deserve to be hit ...... actually, i personally wouldn't mind taking a whack at wasi zafar with a number 10 bata slipper - the man makes a good case for infanticide ....

..... you have to understand that vigilante justice, which includes public beatings and humiliation is an integral part of our culture .... i can still remember the petty thief who was paraded naked through engineering university lahore with his face blackened while hundreds of students jeered and cheered ..... and this was before public stonings and beheadings became popular .....

...... and i hate to admit this but the look of fear and panic on sher afghan's and arbab rahim's face gave me a perverse pleasure ........ i think as a nation we are ready for public guillotines, hangings, beheadigs and ritual stonings ........ i can feel the rush !

#70 Posted by hamidm2,

it is the quality that matters and not the quantity ...... the way i look at it

Hamidm2, I can't believe you actually said this. Have you become un-murtided now?

Bhai what you said is the Islamic system ... quality but not quantity...

Remember "Jamhoor woh nizam-e-riyasat hai kai jis mein, bandon ko gina kartey hain tola nahi kartey" (Allama Iqbal).

In the prevailing system, it is the first past the post! And in this case, MQM has 19 elected seats (plus some unelected reserved seats) in a house of 342. Are you talking about quality? They're the pits even in quality let alone the number even if one was to believe that quality counts in a Parliamentary democracy at all!

LoL ... kaan pakro hamidm2. You just committed blasphemy against your murtid religion.

Re: # 83; Correction Zeemax

Jamhooriyet wo tarz-e-hakoomat hai ke jis mein;
bandoan ko gina karte hein tola naheen karte.

Re: # 82, hamidm mian',
I am not fond of Arbab nor Sher Afghan and I completely hate Wasi Zaffar and you know what our feelings are mutual.

MQM used the incident rightly in her favor - thats called 'good politics' , job well done guys!

Re: # 83
if quantity counts, Bangladesh would have been East Pakistan.

#75 Posted by tahmed32

#61 zeemax: I dont think there is going to be any armageddon, like you think. For the rest of Pakistan, mqm's criminal actions are a localised problem for people in karachi to deal with.

I'm surprised you say this being an aware person. It is indeed a problem for the other ethnicities in Urban Sindh. The Urdu-speaking are a minority even in Karachi and Hyderabad as compared with other ethnicities in these very same cities which IB types believe belong to him. You don't know that?

It is only the the coercive past of MQM which makes the Urdu speaking people believe they have any power at all if it comes to open confrontation. They will simply be wiped out.

#84 Posted by akcheema,

Yes indeed. I thought there was something wrong but just wrote it. I'm sorry. No one must ever misquote Allama Iqbal. I stand corrected Sir!

zeemax: actually..hamidm shares this concept of "measuring quality" with jehadists, so he is not going against it.


If you are looking for someone who opposes this concept, I am at your service. I consider it to be a asinine concept (hope this gets you or hamidm mad enough to start an argument, although i do have to get ready for a busy day coming up).

Urdu Speaking constitutes 14%-17% of Pakistani population - with a whopping 13-14 million in Karachi alone.

anyone to date for APMC- 5th Annual Music Conference? classical?

#90 Posted by IB,

Quote your source. I say Urdu-Speaking constitute less than 13% in Pakistan, and less than half in Karachi. And I will establish irrefutable sources. But your turn first.

.. correction ... sorry ..

... less than 7% in Pakistan and about 13% in Sindh.

Re: # 88; Zeemax

No worries.

Is raaz ko ik mard-e-farangi ne kiya faash
har chand ke daana usay khola naheen karte
jamhooriyet ik tarz-e-hakoomat hai ke jis mein
bandon ko gina karte hein tola naheen karte


tahmed sahib (78 I think):

I am well thanks; hope you are well too.
Bedtime in Oz..

Khuda Hafiz to all

Re: # 89

tahmed,


.... you know that i oppose this whole idea of self-rule for the natives ..... the events of the past sixty years in the sub continent and all that other stuff that is happening in places like zimbabwe and congo would never have happened if the white man had not decided to dump his burden ...... i would support any effort to recolonize these god forsken places ..... short of that, it doesn't really matter what form of government we come up with on our own - it will be a mess ........

#87 agreed that mqm and its followers have an inflated sense of their own strength and cleverness. and agreed that even in urban karachi they would be no match if the other ethnic groups they routinely target chose to give them a taste of their own medicine.

but there would have to be complete break-down of law and order in karachi for that to happen. and i dont see the rest of pakistan standing idly by in that case - the military would simply be brought in and they would have a curfew of something.

hamidm2,

Please make your position clear re my #83 re your #70!

#95 hamidm: I think you need to have more confidence in yourself my friend - you are heir to the indus valley civilization, my friend. which flourished while hitler's ancestors were swinging from trees. and from which the very name india is derived - with the rest of india, now a democracy, being historically seen as the backyard of the civilized part of the subcontinent.

and dont get me started on genetics - like i told this right-of-hitler prof in business school who was talking about how american indian kids are prone to fighting even if brought up in white households about how things are reversed in the Pakistan - with the white skinned folks from the north being the underclass. The prof turned red on hearing this and mumbled something about my being a foreign student and not familiar with US culture, thus proving that color is skin deep only.

For purposes of clarity, the last sentence in #98 should be: "The prof turned red (thus proving btw that color is skin deep only) on hearing this and mumbled something about my being a foreign student and not familiar with US culture."

hamidm#95:

You must read "The Continent of Circe" by Nirad Chaudhry, if you haven't read it yet. You will love it.

Re: # 58 IB

Sindhis eat lizards?... hmmm... well, that would explain why HP is so stupid...

Re: # 58 IB

Sindhis eat lizards?... hmmm... well, that would explain why HP is so stupid...

Re: # 90 Number is over emphasized.
Hindustani muslims are jews of pakistan educated and they protect their interests. How many jews are in usa ? Look is not every thing. Even in animal kingdom bottom chain number is great. Dears and rats number is great but few lions. Generally more number is sign of problem in humans. As you go down social economical ladder the of children per child goes up again weakness is counter balanced by numbers. Standard , poison ,bionomial distribution curves at both ends cover major length but not much area. There is confusion of quality and numbers. Every body should be treatedequally is accepted principle and number adds collective security.

It was relief to see Altafbhai with drew resignation. Now Hindus had MK gandhi ,Pathans had Sarhad Gandhi, is it second coming of Hindustani Muslim Gandhi . Nobody should hold breath if he fastsnext time and gandhiyan ways will YLH fuming. Good evening and good night.

Re: # 98

tahmed,

........ i will believe you when i see a quarter horse or a draft horse run in the kentucky derby ...... there are fundamental differnces - in physical characteristics, temperament and tolerance for democracy - among people (and horses) ...... in people the differences are further aggravated by religion and culture ......... the sooner we recognize this, the sooner we will begin to work on a solution ........ there is no question in my mind that, generally speaking, karachites are more refined than punjabis - the differnce might be more cultural than genetic, but it is there ......... there is no point in dneying it ...

#103 Posted by ahmedmadani,

Excellent post ahmedmadani saheb. If only someone would read it.

hamidm2:

"there is no question in my mind that, generally speaking, karachites are more refined than punjabis - the differnce might be more cultural than genetic, but it is there ......... there is no point in dneying it ..."

If so, then chowk does not seem to have a representative sample of either.

Yes, I agree that Punjabis are an emotional lot, especially Sikhs, followed by Muslims and then Hindus. But this does not mean that we lack intelligence or enterprise. In India, we Punjabis have done quite well for ourselves whether in Bollywood, businesses, dhabas or agriculture. We are only 2% of India's population but have more than our share in almost all fields of life and that too without any special favours from the government.

Even in the silicon valley, we have our share of the elite, such as Sabeer Bhatia, Rikhye, Vinod Dham and Vinod Khosla. I am sure there are similar examples from Pakistan but I am not knowledgeable enough to give similar examples.

#105 Posted by zeemax on April 12, 2008 5:13:50 am
"Excellent post ahmedmadani saheb."

ha ha, I agree! this penchod hingboo has created the most elaborate troll possible

#107 Posted by slyder,

ahmedmadani saheb is a hingboo???

err ... Slyder, I think this is a great insight:

Now Hindus had MK gandhi ,Pathans had Sarhad Gandhi, is it second coming of Hindustani Muslim Gandhi . Nobody should hold breath if he fasts next time and gandhiyan ways will YLH fuming.

so gandhi is responsible for the whole jihadi lal-masjid ninja chik barbecue thing?

and mohajirs who came from india are responsible for the rest of the shit?

heh...

Hamidm miaN,

I must say that, even by your usual high standards, your interacts on this board appear to fall in a league completely of their own!!

Re: # 106

dost-mittar ji,

.... there are always exceptions, but they do not make the rule ..... and 'refinement' has nothing to do with how 'successful' you are ..... a punjabi remains a loud-mouth thagga regardless of which luxury car he drives .... as a matter of fact, the more expensive the car, the more obnoxious the punjabi ...... for example, i drive a beat up old buick regal, zeemax drives a mercedes clk ..... i rest my case ......

dost-mittar,

.... to give you another example: what are the first few questions a punjabi asks you ?

" thuwadee zaat ki ai ?"
" ai koti thuwadee apne ai ?"

.... once he has determined whether you are a arain or a lowly jaat and whether you own the house or rent it, he will decide whether to offer you mixed chai in a cracked cup or 'speparate' chai in fine china ..... and god forbid if you are a lowly raja from domeli, you might not even get a glass of water ......

....... and don't tell me you cannot hear the only punjabi in a gathering when you walk into a hall full of a thousand hyderabadis and other civilized people ..... usually he is shouting someting like: "oye, tu chup kar - mein tanu dasna asal ich gal ki ay !"

Re: # 70

hamidm2

Being a Nazimabadi myself, I am flattered and at the same time embarrassed for not being able to reciprocate this kind gesture for lack of knowledge.

On a separate note, all this focus on a minority by a majority group is a matter of grave concern and I blame that paindu from Lahore NS for this rejuvenated Jaag Punjabi Jaag mantra.

Re: # 106
Problems with punjabis is they think they are not smart.They are shy they have punjabi who is nobel prize winner Har Govind Khuran.There is little mental degradation in producing typical movies "simple punjabiMunda" etc. Generally this rustic side leads excessive food eating,alcohol,painting eyes etc. It is quite boring to be in company of punjabis are generally basic earthy type of people he talks about money, then valgarity and then he over eats and then they drink and boast lot and when alcohol has taken over intelluctual activity gets in overdrive. It hard to catch and say in words sindhis are soft and pleasant and there is kind of crudeness in punjabis likeayub,ziyya and think of Present president then you can think subtle behavioural difference. They are "americans" of hindustan hardworking like donkey,not shirkers rustic plain elemental roty , dal etc . Even cultural activity reaches peaks with kite flying with peak reaching at that fine delicate bhangara dancing.
Punjabiu's are not city people and so they have different preoccupations. Like jews are basically city people and as they left rural areas and migrated to cities started out shining. In cities people get time more than villages as there is creation of "surplus"time. Surplus time leads to finers parts of life. As pakistan has now more people in cities punjabi social ethos will change over time. Their food is big problem full of fats and diet of 100 years old hard working agricultural conditions. It will be good if Punjabi men start thinking about their figures at 40 and control tummy and we can blame women folks for what they feed. Generally heavy weight is related to being well to do if some body is not over weight they ask man " health seems to be problem,join us to eat fatty foods". Also due toheavy foods and becoming fat Punjabi hindus and muslims start problem of getting excess hairs fron nose and eats. I am sure Sikhs have same problems but it is overlooked.
Also punjab has history that they remember in their blood taking impact of barbarian looters passing through and change all time. What are punjabis today is due to present situation as well what happened in past for thousand of years.They have been involving in to what they are so they can can suit their enviornment. At heart Punjabi likes order so he can gowith life. He is grateful for any body who gives stable system ( greeks, ashokasa, mughal,Sikhs, british or ayubs). He understands at heart all this rulers are temporary and they will come and go but his life will go and he has to go with life. He can get very angry but there is less sentimentality even about death as said "who I am to worry about dead as I am going towards fast there". Punjabis are great people and they are locomotive of country and some times carrying even all loads of always disgrunted sindhis,pathans and aways paranoid Mohajirs. Now nopoint in blaming mohagirs they have to be paranoid to survive as they are dealing with ruthless punjabis. When allrulers outsiders ruled them they behaved well but for first time they got to have some initiative they slaughterd each other completely ,nomercy ,noprisoners and snatching women folks. Mohagirs have have toput upwith with people whoare not passive.They are like big brother and have tocarry all blames but no credits as normal good deeds are forgotten. With Punjabi from south punjab as PM is ressuring to all and he is under control of Sindhi , Mohagir as head of state backed by usa and China is very good dynamic equilibrium for all concerned. It is very best for federal state. This best for punjab also.

Tribes may come,
And Tribes may go,
Our stupidity goes on for-ever.