The Psychology of Mothering

Re: # 78; tahmed

your argument is correct but only up to a point. Like everything else in life (Kaal would love this!), muslims are exempt from this 'poverty driven' drive.

Amongst the Pakistani/Bangladeshis in the UK for example, the families are large. The reason being easy access to welfare, hence "allah day raha hai bhai" attitude. I asked a father of nine the reason why allah chose different criteria for the delivery of "rizk" in different parts of the world and I was met with some suspicious looks; call me a coward but I don't just want to die for nothing!

Also, there is this really conscious push amongst the faithful to produce as many "ummatees" as possible to increase the number of faithful in the greater scheme of things.

The psychology, however, is far too complex to be described in easy human terms. Factors vary between Pakistan and those in the west. I suppose I should believe Kaal when he confidently tells me time and again that "the muslim mind" is fundamentally different to the rest of humanity; the man does have a point!

hamidm #59 i first heard your argument (i.e. that the poor have more kids because it is a question of survival) from our madam in 1970 in our Demography class in MA economics at Panjab University. Our madam would spend the entire lecture hour doing a heads-down reading from her notes, and we would sit and admire madam. Madam's notes were from a 20 year old UN publication.

In short, what you told me I heard over a half-century ago. And only now do I realize that it is wrong. The UN study was too polite to put it - but the fact is that those who have more kids are stupid.

Shafqat (to use an assumed name for this servant guy I mentioned who had four kids in four years of marriage before being told to cease further production or else look elsewhere for free lodging) simply felt that he was not responsible for kids because they are "Allah di daen ai". Nor are kids cost free.

So - dont ever give me this conventional bs again!!

Re: # 76; CORRECTION:
majority by far are with the female side at a great advantage

should read .......at a great dis-advantage.....

Re: # 73; Parthaab Sahib

You are absolutely right in what you wrote and I am sure would make a good topic for discussion. From my point of view, there has to be a balance in these 'rights and responsibilities'; unfortunately the balance can be swung in the other direction easily and the consequences disastrous for those concerned.

Speaking for myself, I am not a feminist or any other 'ist', if it helps. I only speak in terms of the injustices that I see within my own 'known' sphere and majority by far are with the female side at a great advantage. Surely this is not the case in the west to the same extent. Problem is when one 'politicises' a cause, sometimes it takes an equivalent reaction to bring a 'balance' back in the equation.

Being of medical background, at least in the west, the healthcare of women often gets far more publicity (hence funds and political backing) than men's (compare the well-publicised Breast Cancer issue vs Prostate Cancer, for example; currently at least the same number if not more men die of the disease). Somehow we are not considered 'sexy' enough to be on the front page as it were!

I think the issues are fundamentally different though; we can't justify injustices to our female counterparts in the East based on the 'excesses' committed (actual or perceived) in the opposite direction in the West; the two would have to be looked at separately.

Re: # 68

mad masadi,

....as a howard trained sociopath are you telling me that there is no corelation between television and the mumber of children you have ?......... i beg to differ ...... in one of my many informal studies i have found that the more and bigger the television sets, the fewer the number of children ..... as a matter of fact, people with hi-def plasma or lcd sets larger that 50 inches and home theaters have a maximum of two children .......... i hven't done a study on blu-ray yet, but i am sure it will also have a significant impact on the fertility rate ......

..... and please don't tell me that the us elite is impregnating our women and then killing every 66 out of 1000 babies to put pakistan at the bottom of the infant mortality charts ........ but then you turn around and tell me that they also put birth control stuff in the polio vaccine sto terlize our people ....... make up your mind - are they responsible for our pregnancies or are they trying to kill us off .....

73, Partha,

Did u know that socialist Zapataro of Spain got more women than men in his cabinet?

There are many 'male feminists' who think that theirs is the duty to defend extremist feminism. This, however, is unfortunate. Males have always been known for their pampering of females. Witness our very own Taj Mahal. There are, in fact, males who are actually feminists full time, thinking they are morally superior since it is their job to protect the 'weaker' of the species.

In America, men are forced to pay around 40% of their income to ex-wives, regardless of wrongdoing on the woman's parts (often called "no-fault" alimony). She could commit adultery and beat her husband or kids, and none of it will influence the court's decision.

More shockingly still, a woman can simply accuse her husband of sexual or physical abuse (or simply express a fear of it) and instantly win a restraining order forcing him away from his home and children, without so much as a hearing. In fact, most divorce lawyers will advise a woman to do this, and those who do not can be sued for legal malpractice.

And once she has the kids, the family court will be loath to enforce visitation rights for the father.

More than 50% of all marriages in the U.S. result in divorce -- men's rights are being increasingly overlooked to the benefit of women. Consider this: statistically, the first person to file for divorce usually wins. While 70% of all divorces are initiated by women, 85 to 90% of custody awards go to the women.

While hard-core feminism has grown by leaps and bounds, 'masculinism' is pretty much unheard off. Feminist magazines, gyms, even buses! To understand why Feminism has developed 'naturally' while 'Masculinism' has not, one needs to understand early society. While the females grouped with other females and cooked and looked after the kids together, the men went out to hunt, competing for food, and learning to mistrust other males.

Why is it women are more eager to break out of the marriage? Is it because of the opportunity it gives her to repair her 'ego'? Or the ample opportunities for 'maintainence' and the usage of law to break her spouse financially? Or simply because in our society, the male does the competitive courting and all she has to do is to lie back and wait for the next idiot to come along?

Dr. Sohail, If I may get personal, do you have sons - or daughters?

More and more divorces are being caused by high sexual drive by the female these days. Makes you wonder what maintainence is for!

www.womensinfidelity.com

www.womensinfidelity.com

www.498a.org

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Re: # 66

And there are many in India who hate these schemes and slam as populist measures, making people beggars etc...

I would want to know your thoughts on this...

Hamidm,

" that is why i think the government should provide a 40 inch plasma tv to every member of the unwashed and uncivil society ......... "

You can make an excellent career in politics if you decide to move over to India. You know Tamilnadu government is distributing free color TVs for people below the poverty line.

Congress party, in Karnataka, has promised free colour TVs if they are voted to power.

Are you working for the same consultants who work for the Tamilnadu government...So TV has another function too...an effective contraceptive...

Charlie, I know u well but I didnt read btwn the lines :(

Sohail

A good and balanced article unlike the previous one's by the writer. He seems to be maturing from the bookish to the real world.

In fact in the west the mothering role has also been taken up to some extent by the state wheras in the east, being a mother,is still a staus of honor and support for a woman. Our mothers' greatest threat to their sons is still the warning that they deliver to their wayward sons that they would not
forgive them '32 strains of milk' (Woh unko 32 dhaarein nahein bakhshein gi).