Akbar and Alexander

Akbar and Jodha is a heart warming film in the best tradition of Indian film making -- Akbar was my man – a king way ahead of his time.

Islam of Avicenna tamed the wahshi Mongols into the civilized Moghuls -- Hinduism transformed the Indian Moghuls to take them to new heights of tolerance and intellectualism in arts and architecture and in social spheres.

God bless Akbar for siring a Hindu-Muslim mixed dynasty -- of half Moghul half Hindu kings of India -- that laid the foundation of multiculturism way back -- that started shaping up the current face of the Indian subcontinent – a dynasty that could have lasted a little longer had the eldest Darus Shikoh -- the most learned and the most open minded and the most scholarly linguist (Sanskirt, Persian, Arabic) wine-loving heir -- could have ascended the Delhi throne -- except for the support of his Elder Rajput king-maker uncle -- for the more aggressive -- more accomplished conquest hungry warrior - the funless ascetic Moghul -- the youngest Aurungzeb.

#110 muradbaig

To begin with. I forgot to point this out:

[I have the presumption to desire to dye these black mustachios and beard in infidel blood through loyalty to your Majesty's person]

This shows a way of thinking codified in religion, and honored by Islamic society. That spilling the blood of the infidel is an honorable mission. This is why there is the "Allh ho akbar" cry in riots.

This is very different than Genghis Khan teaching his enemies a lesson by massacring civilians.


[Dont think we did not have non Hindu savagery in India.

There was a heady period of vigorous Brahmanical revivalism that gathered strength after the 7th century AD. Many local rulers, probably at the goading of their Brahmin ministers and priests, began to ruthlessly exterminate the previously dominant Buddhist and Jain faiths. No doubt the rich lands and treasures of their monasteries and temples also gave material incentives to this new religious fervour and many Buddhist and Jain stupas and monasteries were destroyed and Hindu temples established at their sites. Similar material motives had actuated religious persecutions in many lands including those by the nobles in England during the much more recent period of the Reformation.
Mihirikula, the Hun ruler was converted by Brahmins in 515 AD and soon unleashed a wave of violent destruction on Buddhist monasteries in Punjab and Kashmir. Kalhana’s Rajatarangani relates that crows and birds of prey would fly ahead of his armies in anticipation of the slaughter that lay ahead.
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It is believed that Shankara introduced pilgrimages to these holy places in the Himalayas for the first time to prevent their relapse into Buddhist or animist ways that were earlier practised. As sufficient local Brahmins could not be found who were willing to preach in such remote places he imported Nambudri Brahmin priests from Kerala who, to this day, officiate at Badrinath, and Kedarnath.
Later as the mountain settlements grew other Brahmins like the Joshis and Pants from Maharashtra, Gairolas from Bengal and Negis from Gujarat were also invited to settle in the hills. A constant influx of Hindu pilgrims ensured the presence of many traders, priests and rulers who had a vested interest in sustaining the pilgrimages to these sacred spots. So conversions have had a long history in India and are not exclusive to Islam and Christianity. ]

All of this is useless, unless you can provide historical references.

SHOW ME THE HISTORICAL REFERNCES. Once you do that, we will inspect each case, one by one.

Killing civilians as a holy religious calling was NEVER a Hindu trait. It was ALWAYS a Muslim trait - in all their fights with "infidels", everywhere.

#113 nasah

[God bless Akbar for siring a Hindu-Muslim mixed dynasty -- of half Moghul half Hindu kings of India -- that laid the foundation of multiculturism way back -- that started shaping up the current face of the Indian subcontinent –]

Maybe the long-dead families of all those innocent civilians that his armies butchered would not be able to forgive him, regardless of his change of heart later in life.

[... -- could have ascended the Delhi throne -- except for the support of his Elder Rajput king-maker uncle -- for the more aggressive -- more accomplished conquest hungry warrior - the funless ascetic Moghul -- the youngest Aurungzeb. ]

And this is why even the most liberal (therefore the most un-Islamic) of the Muslims are so dangerous - they could have an offspring who "interprets" the "holy" koran differently (i.e. just reads what is written, instead of "interpreting" it). Behold Osama Bin Laden, whose family is pro-west, and whose brother is a respected professor.

As long as the good book exists in its current form, and as long as mo's life-story continues to be propagated unedited, this threat to humanity will persist. That is why a newer version of Islam, with a new "prophet" would be very helpful (it's all bullshit anyway, so what's the difference? Idiots have their "religion", and everybody is happy).

#106 Ranjit

[In the Indian army today, I dont believe there is any kind of segregation as far as food or living quarters are concerned. On the front, everyone does everything together. ]

You are exposing your "low" caste hangups for everyone to see. Why are you so ashamed to admit that you belong to a "low" caste? Because it is obvious to everyone watching.

muradbaig#110:

Zahe naseeb, aap ko is mehfil mein aana gawaara tau huwa!


I, too, am waiting to see reference to original documents. Amazing that all these "facts" came to light only after the Nehruvian mandate to "secular historians" to rewrite history which established hindu-muslim same-same equation. Amazing, too, that Nehru himself never discovered any such nuggets in his "discovery" of India.

But my skepticism is not just because these revelations were made during the rewrite of history, after all, we keep finding new facts of ancient history through archaelogical finds, etc. Instead, my skepticism is because of the complete lack of rancour or resentment between Hindus and Jains or Buddhists, whether living in India or abroad. This is quite unnatural: Europeans still remember the brutality of Chengiz Khan and Attila the Hun; Muslims still remember the massacres of crusaders; Hindus still are embedded with the memory of Ghazani after a thousand years of that event. But neither the Buddhists/Jains nor Hindus show any resentment towards each other; indeed, it was the Hindus -not the "seculars" - who made the biggest noise when the Bamiyaan Buddha statues were demolished.

BTW, I hope you will one day enlighten us with your analysis of the Indian auto sector - does Nano have a global future? Will the snob value of Jaguar ownership go down because of the ownership passing on to a third world conglomerate? Will Tatas succeed where Ford failed?

Baig Sahib, finally, it's good to see you here!

If all those things are true, then we need to acknowledge them. We know there are some Buddhist texts complaining of persecution by some kings, but in general, people appeared to have had little problem with the Buddha or his message - not in any violent way. It wasn't that different from what many well-respected philosophers had been saying in India anyway (not to take anything away from the breathtaking advaces he made). Also, Buddhism and other Indian traditions continued to live side by side in India (and in South East Asia). Even from a religious point of view that would be natural.

So some evidence of large-scale, violent extirpation of Buddhism by Hindus throughout India (or across large swathes of the land) over a period of time would be helpful.

Correction:

So some evidence of large-scale, violent extirpation of Buddhism by others throughout India (or across large swathes of the land) over a period of time would be helpful.

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There were no Hindus then, and presumably not just brahmins could have carried out such mass extirmination of Buddhists.

Ajeya,

Why are you so ashamed of your Bihari background? Bihar is also part of India....I understand that it is traumatic to call Laloo Prasad Yadav as dad and Rabri Devi as mom....but so what?....reality is what it is.....garv se kaho ki tum bihari ho!!....keep the bihari flag flying high.....

Ajeya,

Why are you so ashamed of your Bihari background? Bihar is also part of India....I understand that it is traumatic to call Laloo Prasad Yadav as dad and Rabri Devi as mom....but so what?....reality is what it is.....garv se kaho ki tum bihari ho!!....keep the bihari flag flying high.....

Re:ajeya
"That is why a newer version of Islam, with a new "prophet" would be very helpful (it's all bullshit anyway, so what's the difference? Idiots have their "religion", and everybody is happy)."

Shut up bihari.....what does a loser bihari like u know about religion?.....go milk your cows and steal money from someone....

#122 Ranjit (Got into IIT without Quota)

Okay okay. Calm down. We all believe you. You got in fair and square, and not because of your "low" caste status.

: )

There are many sources of history apart from Dr. Romila Thapar and many people are also guided by well sanitized school history books. The struggle for power was a very serious and bloody business in every country with the possible exception of the Buddhists (not including Cambodia).

The Rajputs completely vanished from Indian history during the thousand years of Buddhism supremecy from Ashoka to Harshavardhan in the 7th century. They were reinvented out of mainly Huna clans by the Brahmins and either exterminated or converted all the Buddhists and many Jains. There were as many Buddhists as Hindus at the time of Hsuen Tsang in the 7th century but they had completely and totally vanished a century later.

The Rajputs were thus not only `fire born' but rose out of an ocean of blood and suffering.

Please note that this was no Hindu revival as there was no Hindu religion as such at this time. You might have noticed that I speak of a Brahminical revival as the Brahmins were not only converting pagan Huns but also the numerous local tribes who worshipped their own tribal deities (as many hill and forest tribes still do).

For references and bibliography read my book:

REFLECTIONS IN A SACRED POND

It is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble and elsewhere. It is now going into a third edition.

Re: # 124:

Most of us did not study History and do not need to. Thank Allah/Jesus for that. I would rather study Lilawati's proof of Pythogorus theorem, what and how Shivaji implemented anti-feudalism by stopping "watan" system, how he gave sword to every one including Brahmins and Mahars, how Warkari Sampradaya brought people together (including Marathi Muslims) etc. I would rather try to find the reason for development of Calculus in Kerala in Mathas ... was there similar develpments in other parts of India, who were the architects and Vastu architects of different temples, Rajput palaces and Taj Mahal. http://ashvinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/calculus-from-kerala.html
http://www.in finityfoundation.com/mandala/t_es/t_es_agraw_kerala.htm

Isms and religion is a recent concept. India had Sanatan Dharma. Budha worked within this Dharma (Sanskrit) to remove the deterioration/corruption. At that time Prakrit word for Dharma was Dhamma. It was not like Jadaism vanished and Islam came about. You study Indian history through middle Eastern Abrahmic glasses.

Paper documents and artifacts can be doctored. Even in UN such proofs were provided to conclude that Saddam had WMDs and Chalu Chalabis such as you or Romilla will do required prostituting for few crumbs.

I would rather go by what gets imprinted on the DNA. If Dhamma or Jaina were violently persecuted and exterminated then we would have such traits ... gandhi would not happen in this land ... he would not have mass following. I wish influence of Buddha was not so extreme that Ashoka forgot his Kshatriya Dharma.... India suffered for 2 millennia because of Jaina & Buddha. Do you know that even Shivaji's great grand son took Sanyas and became a Bhikshu. Wish they had made understanding Geeta compulsory for every one. Then we would not had vain Rajputs such as Prithwiraj. Geeta understanding would have made him kill Muhammad of Gaur in the first battle, just as Arjuna killed Karna.

Coming back to history based on DNA imprints ... go and find why Afghanistan is suffering. Violence, looting and intolerance is imprinted by coopting with Islamic hordes. Find out where the progeny of Akbar are today. They are pulling rikshas around slums in Hyderabad. Why? Paper documents of their inheritance does not help. What got imprinted onto DNA by sibling murders, drug addict Hukka Pani and Kotha culture tells more than paper sources/books.

Islamic invaders destroyed intellectual capital of India. Some gandus in India coopted with them, and now they are writing books telling that our great grandpa had his fly open in 7th century as Romilla found non working zipper near Kutub Minar.

It's
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/t_es/t_es_agraw_kerala.htm

Guru ji Baig sahab:
There is no need to exchange lessons in history.history is simple like this:
Muslim: i came i saw i conquered.
Hindu: i saw i layed down i opened my legs.
Thank you.

"Muslim: i came i saw i conquered.
Hindu: i saw i layed down i opened my legs."

Is 1971 history for you? 97K layed down on the back and opened all the orifices to take the load. In 1999 the load was taken while skiing down the hill. From 1947 you have been laying down and taking the Umriki load both day and night. Little correction from 62 you are taking in the night Chini load. Mind also that most of the fights for Delhi were between Muslims. Muslims were laying down.

Guess you wont understand! Still living on treetop. How do you lay down on the treetop?