In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful

Eklavya #957 {"salim bro, religion is a personal matter only so long as it does not make assumptions and declarations about the beliefs of others. This new development may not a personal matter in that sense. It is an attempt to take over a religious domain occupied by others, before their appearance."}

Kaal Bhayya,
Beautifully phrased! Adulteration and obfuscation are the well-proven tricks of the insincere and those with ulterior motives. By attaching themselves to some obscure yet acceptable philosophy, these usurpers want to throw bricks at Muslims and stay "Muslim" in the eyes of the world and their own questionable conscience.

I have visited Konya, here in Turkey, a couple of times and have learned to respect Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi as an inspiring and thoroughly Muslim scholar. His emphasis on love is not the same as these charlatans' approval of insulting the Holy Prophet (PBUH), his family, and the basic tenets of Islam. The hypocrites who go out of the way to convince us that they are Sufis, or followers of Rumi, or even "modern" Muslims are just spiritual cowards. At least Salamander Rushdie and Hirsa Ali had the guts to leave Islam as they ridiculed their former faith. The only thing worse than a kaafir is a munafiq.

zee, recognizably, we are calling folks 'sufistic' very loosely here. To use a term for (aspects of) echodada, and to turn around and use the same term for Asra Nomani is just wrong. Yet Nomanis of the world see themselves as propounding/following some sort of Sufistic tradition, which is, of course, a tragedy and a farce.

What's happening of course is Islam's power perpetuating itself, despite people's personal efforts. There are lots of people who have no interested in what Islam wants from them in actual content, yet cannot escape its hold. So their only way out is to declare 'traditional Muslims as sorts of 'non-Muslims,' mirzai like.

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salim bro, religion is a personal matter only so long as it does not make assumptions and declarations about the beliefs of others. This new development may not a personal matter in that sense. It is an attempt to take over a religious domain occupied by others, before their appearance. One can legitimize oneself based on some principles, or by decrying the behavior of others. In this new tradition, you will see more of the latter. Salim will be labeled in newer and more creative ways :)

#946 Posted by Eklavya,

But it is an interesting development, to say the least. Probably more interesting to people who were known as Muslims before this new American Sufistic Islam made its own claims.

Would you care to expound on this Kaal? LoL

(Let's continue here. I would like to gift this Azra Nomani a thousand+ posts, as I did before to that Asra Shandana-Nomani. Though I wonder why this article is not listed in 'Most Popular of the Week'? I thought after 900+ posts it should be)

DM Sahib,
Jan Sangh, Sang something, and Maharashtra something - latest party active in chopping of hands of poor Hindu Bihari laborers.

#923 re: awards

...and the award for the most annoying personality, devoid of any intellectual content, goes to BJ Coomar - the "man" with the filthiest mouth, for obvious reasons.

Salim:
What do JS, SP and MNS stand for? I think that I know the rest.

Allah talla ka mara huwa {"The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people"}

Tell me, o divinely cursed one,
Is your lengthy research motivated by concern for a child or are you merely gathering ammunition to score points against your hated enemas?

These "sources" of Hadiths were born generations after the events that they so "accurately" describe. So and so told so and so who told so and so that so and so did this to so and so. No wonder, some very learned people in Turkey are going to heave a lot of this unsubstantiated nonsense into the trash bin.

You probably believe in the daughter of Jesus, the Da Vinci code, and Brahma's incestuous relationship with his own daughter.

Did you know that Jawaharlal Nehru had an illicit relationship with Sardar Vallabhai Patel?

arjun #919 {"that's such a retarded comeback that even your own multi-nicks won't find it funny..."}

Arjun,
You asked a retarded "this or that" question and got a retarded "that" answer. What's so retarded about that?

Tell me, did your maternal uncle (Maamoon) give birth to you?

Eklavya #946 {"In this new 'Islam,' a person can have promiscuous sex 24/7 (that is a ridiculous overexaggeration of Tantrika, but you get the point), can take/accept abuse of Prophet Muhammad ... "}

Kaal Bhayya,
Religion, in my opinion, is a personal matter. People can believe what they like. But when, obviously self-serving, self-righteous people like Asra Nomani become "Muslim" activists one has to wonder about their motives. Are they trying to legitimize their acceptance of profanity against our Holy Prophet (PBUH) or, more importantly, are they trying to legitimize their out of wedlock production?

Tahir #931 {"Chauhan sahib,
Mr. Max and you address me as 'brother', that is comforting; others abuse me is of no consequence. They are a mentally confused lot who think I'm a Pakistani-German!"}

Tahir,
I am proud to address you as a brother. Anyone who doesn't behave like an "acceptable" Muslim to these BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS/MNS hate-mongrels is a jihadist in their estimation. Also, an "acceptable" Muslim is one who agrees with their insulting of Our Holy Prophet (PBUH), enjoys the "Mo & Ayesha" blasphemy, and drinks alcohol or gao muttra with them while badmouthing Islam, Muslims, and Pakistan. Oh yes, the "acceptable" Muslim is also blinded by "India Shining."

nkg #943{"What Nadir Shah had to do with Sikhs of Punjab?
How Navy is coming into the picture between Maratha and Mughals?

nkg,
If I need to lecture you about Indian history you are never going to learn and, more importantly, you are going to be even more pissed off. Go ahead and memorize the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SS/SP/MNS hate-mongrel's mantra.

#946 Posted by Eklavya,

American Sufistic 'Islam'

It is a step ahead of even above. I think a better term would be 'Islamic Scientology'.

But obviously and quite visibly, Asra Nomani's entire new religion is based on nymphomania. I would like to meet some of her followers :)

Tahir, zee

I think a new form of 'Islam' is developing - Amnerican Sufism, or Sufism II.

In this new 'Islam,' a person can have promiscuous sex 24/7 (that is a ridiculous overexaggeration of Tantrika, but you get the point), can take/accept abuse of Prophet Muhammad, insist on worshipping Persian gods and goddesses instead of Allah, attend yoga sessions and sing om songs, accept non-Muslims the same as Muslims, and call all other unfortunate 'traditional' Muslims backward and regressive. Their strong claim is that ultimately they remain true to 'Islam' like everybody else.

As an outsider, fascinated by the nature of sufism, I can accept this new American Sufistic 'Islam' at its face value and try to understand it on its own terms.

But it is an interesting development, to say the least. Probably more interesting to people who were known as Muslims before this new American Sufistic Islam made its own claims.

What is this that I read about my Beloved? I am angry now!!

The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."


Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old.

But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like.
Sahih Bukhari V.7, B62, N. 37
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza?" He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter). "

Hamza and Abu Bakr both were the foster brothers of Muhammad. But Ayesha must have been too pretty for the Prophet to abide by the codes of ethics and custom.

In the following Hadith he confided to Ahesha that he had dreamed of her before soliciting her from her father.

Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.

Whether Muhammad had actually such dream or he just said it to please Ayesha is not the point. What matters here is that it indicates that Ayesaha was a baby being “carried” by an angel when the Prophet dreamed of her.

There are numerous hadithes that explicitly reveal the age of Ayesha at the time of her marriage. Here are some of them.

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

And in another Hadith we read.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

In the above hadith we read that Ayesha was swinging, This is a play of little girls not grown up people. The following Hadith is particularly interesting because it shows that Ayesha was so small that was not aware what was going on when the Holy Prophet “surprised” her by going to her.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.


Must have been quite a surprise! But the following is also interesting because it demonstrates that she was just a kid playing with her dolls. Pay attention to what the interpreter wrote in the parenthesis. (She was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty)


Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

The holy Prophet died when he was 63. So he must have married Ayesha when he as 51 and went to her when he was 54.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 33
Narrated 'Aisha:
I never felt so jealous of any woman as I did of Khadija, though she had died three years before the Prophet married me, and that was because I heard him mentioning her too often, and because his Lord had ordered him to give her the glad tidings that she would have a palace in Paradise, made of Qasab and because he used to slaughter a sheep and distribute its meat among her friends.


Khadija died in December of 619 AD. That is two years before Hijra. At that time the Prophet was 51-years-old. So in the same year that Khadija died the prophet married Ayesha and took her to his home 3 years later, i.e. one year after Hijra. But until she grow up he married Umm Salama.

In another part Ayesha claims that as long as she remembers her parents were always Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 245

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam),



If Ayesha was older i.e. 16 or 18 as some Muslims claim, she would have remembered the religion of her parents prior to becoming Muslims.

Now someone may still claim that all these hadithes are lies. People are free to say whatever they want. But truth is clear like the Sun for those who have eyes.

Re: # 940

Zeemax:Daniel Pearl's activities in Pakistan were very shady, to say the least.)

every pakistani's activities are very shady in pakistan to say the least saab

is daniel a pakistani saab?

Re: # 912
Salim Ch...
What Nadir Shah had to do with Sikhs of Punjab?
How Navy is coming into the picture between Maratha and Mughals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire

The Marathas used to rule much bigger area than that of mugals in early 18th century...
Anyhow, before British started ruling , Rajputs, Marathas and Sikhs had failed to consolidate...