Little Pakistan: Brooklyn’s Coney Island Avenue

#48 Posted by dost_mittar on April 22, 2008 6:09:13 am

you don't have to actually help them put on the suicide vests..being an apologists for them and denying their existence is just as bad...you are an enabler..

like i was taught in the bad old days: the devil's greatest trick was to convince people that he didn't exist..

arjun#47:
It's your delusion that I support those who blow up. I was pointing out to normal parents who want their children to be successful in north america, you are talking about people who send their kids for islami taleem - two different set of people.

#45 Posted by dost_mittar on April 22, 2008 5:06:31 am


Let go of your venom some times.


your buddies are trying to blow shit up.
you are being an apologist for them

and I'm the one full of venom?

now while it may not fit the kuldip nayyar alternate worldview but it is a fact..a paki-american going to pakiland for more than a few months is automatically under suspicion...are you saying the whole national security establishment of the US is "full of venom"..what about the fact that pakis were the first required to register?

I have news for you pal..pakis, even the once you consider moderate, know who the kooks are and who's talking the extremist BS..

does drinking kool-aid neutralize the "venom"..

Re: # 44
The reason why they refer to them as kashmiris is because not all are from mirpur some are from other districts of AK as well.

It’s not question of fresh off the boat, it’s the question of social class since vast majority of mirpuris/kashmiris are from rural background they had no social/cultural capital to pass onto their offsprings. I’m very hopeful for the future though because of the governments big push in education things should improve in the future.

Gujrati-muslim,urdu-speakers, pak-panjabis are doing just as well as Indians.

arjun#43:

Let go of your venom some times.
I said "in some cases". These cases were not of kids being brought up in a religious environment and they were not sent to their home country for religious education but to spend time with their middle class families back home to learn some of the attributes that make us successful immigrants here, like hard work, kinship and desire to do better than our parents through education and hard work.

#40 Posted by aslam644 on April 22, 2008 4:17:45 am


Taking account, however, of the
lower class resources of Kashmiris


1. you have no numbers to back that up
2. The "kashmiris" are pakis when it suits you and kashmiris when it doesn't?
3. the "kashmiris" aren't fresh off the boat. a lot of them are second and third generation..they were raised in the same country and had access to the same resources as any other immigrant..
4. you're ignoring the role of islam. exactly why do 4 brits of the paki persuasion, with access to education, healthcare and opportunities that other muslims can only dream of, have to blow up their british fellow citizens because of british actions in afghanistan or iraq? the irish at least had a direct reason to be pissed off..not that it justifies whatever the IRA did..the bottom line is that the "anger" among brit-pakis is because of islam..the whole concept of ummah and how their brothers in afghanistan and iraq are being oppressed..

#41 Posted by dost_mittar on April 22, 2008 4:20:16 am


an Indian and a Pakistani, where the families sent their wayward son (typical North American brats, disrespectful, irresponsible, etc.) to India/Pakistan to spend a couple of years with relatives there.


The london bombers visited pakistan...that turned out quite well..then there were the hayats..visiting pakiland for anything more than a few weeks is automatic grounds for additional scrutiny..

let's not pretend like we don't know about pakis in the US who've been busted planning acts of terrorism..25% of young american muslims think suicide bombing is justified...that's gotta mean something even for the koolaid drinkers..

Dear Sir,
Once again you have bored us with useless statistics that dont add up. If 20-40% of kids(paks descent) in your neighborhood wear pants with their bunds showing and cussing with no accent is not something to be proud off, this should be the # 1 concern affecting all Pakistani families in your neighborhood or soon it will be renamed from LP to "bed-stu"istan. Bunds attract violence amongst other things that are coveted by Pathans.
I do have a question. Does the line for Jumma prayers form on the sidewalks when it rains? or are the worshippers more atuned to the "fair-weather"?

Warmest Regards

A great article. This is what chowk should be about.

I think that the Pakistani community in LP should turn out to be different from the Pak communities in Britain. From what you tell, it seems that most of the parents are quite keen on sending their kids to school and colleges and achieve the american dream. Also, times have changed, even Britain of today is less accepting of the kind of extremism espoused by the firebrands in that country until the July 2005 attack on London Tube. So, the chances of the kids being exposed to similar propaganda are much slimmer.

I think that the Western societies should take especial note of what goes on in the masjids. From what I hear, most of them receive large sums of money from the Saudis who insist upon appointing an imam who teaches their version of wahabi islam. Desi muslims would do well to support their own masjids and import moderate barelvi imams from Pakistan.

While excessive association with home country can be damaging, in some cases, it actually can work out to be quite advantageous, especially in middle class families. I know of two cases, an Indian and a Pakistani, where the families sent their wayward son (typical North American brats, disrespectful, irresponsible, etc.) to India/Pakistan to spend a couple of years with relatives there. In both cases, they returned quite chastened and have done quite well in their studies.

Rates of participation obviously have implications
for the collective wealth of these different South Asian
communities: One in two Indians is in employment, but
only one in 3.5 Pakistanis or Bangladeshis, and average
incomes for the latter groups are also lower. The figures
do not of course reflect the high involvement of
Pakistanis and South Asians more generally in the informal
economy, and in casual work in the ethnic economy.
According to the census, over 10,000 Indians were in the
highest-ranking business and public service professional
occupations, but only 4,500 Pakistanis and Bangladeshis
were (3,500 Pakistanis). Taking account, however, of the
lower class resources of Kashmiris, who comprise more
than half the Pakistani settler population, entry rates of
Pakistani non-Kashmiris into business and public service
professional occupations appear similar to those of
Indians. This strengthens the argument that the South
Asian community cannot be disaggregated simply by
nationality or religion, but must be looked at in terms of
class background, migration history, and subcontinental
regional origins.
The figures indicate a growing polarization between
the haves and have-nots among Pakistanis in particular.
Class and Economic Activity 481
Skog-III-47-73.qxd 14/06/2004 03:19 PM Page 481

Re: # 35
There hasn’t been a riot in Bradford to the best of my knowledge, the parade has been cancelled for some inexplicable reason, anyhow Bradford is a different place from the infamous riots with billions poured into it especially education.

#14 Posted by akcheema on April 21, 2008 6:21:10 pm


I don' think Arjun has a problem with Pakis per se. It seems more of a personal issue with another character around (feel free to correct me Arjun).


There's pakistanis and there are pakis..

you are of the pakistani persuasion.I have a lot of pakistani friends..get along fine with them..

goatbrain tahir and peeweemax are pakis...

that should make it all clear...

Re: # 35; arjun mian

I suggest a solution to the Bradford problem.

Those not happy to remain in Britain for religious/cultural reasons, not happy to be accommodative enough towards their fellow citizens and not happy to participate in the socio-cultural structure that defines Britain, should be invited to renounce their British citizenships and leave for wherever they describe as their "mother country".

Enough of this multi-culturalist non-sense!!

#33 Posted by masadi(whose ancestors came from iraq as invaders and stole the land from the natives) on April 22, 2008 1:46:44 am


You forgot that part.......


there...fixed it...

#34 Posted by aslam644 on April 22, 2008 1:48:34 am

what's up with pakis rioting in bradford against the St George's day parade or something...the brits have their unwashed undies in a knot about this all over the internet..can you please let them march so they'll stop spilling over to the rest of the internet and correcting everyone's grammar?

Analysis: Segregated Britain?


The head of the Commission for Racial Equality Trevor Phillips is warning of increased segregation. But it should come as no surprise - it has been on the government's books since the riots of 2001 in Bradford, Burnley and Oldham. The most damning report into the disturbances, by Ted Cantle, a former council chief and expert in local communities, warned of communities living "parallel lives" and recommended wide-ranging changes to policy. The words chosen by Mr Phillips for his speech are more strident - but they amount to the same thing: People share space in Britain's towns and cities but do not know who each other are. The CRE chairman has already attacked what many increasingly regard as the heart of the problem, multiculturalism, a concept that few people agree on.
ts critics, multiculturalism means defining people as different - black, white, Asian, Muslim, Irish and so on - and then treating them differently. At its most stark, critics say it means policy makers decide how to treat people based first on their ethnicity, rather than their rights as citizens; in turn, this encourages people to see themselves as different, as separate, rather than sharing common goals. On the other hand, the supporters of multiculturalism say it cannot be blamed for segregation in society; they argue that public displays of difference - such as a laissez-faire attitude to building of places of worship, can strengthen communities by building civic pride into identities. In his speech, Mr Phillips argues that the nation is becoming more divided by race and religion, with young people being brought up in enclaves. He warns that Britain is "sleep-walking" its way towards segregation on a scale already seen in the USA. The evidence is there to be seen, says Mr Phillips, it's just going unspoken. 'Enclaves growing' So what is the evidence? Last month the Royal Geographical Society published a study that suggested ethnic "enclaves" are growing in the UK's cities. In major cities they found groups isolated by ethnicity. Some of the widest separation occurred with people of Pakistani or Bangladeshi backgrounds, some of the poorest groups in society. In short, government policy needs to be much more sophisticated in how it stops this kind of seemingly permanent division, argued the paper. However, there is evidence that points in completely the other direction - not least within the figures of the BBC's Born Abroad project, published this month. Ethnic mixing Those maps of the UK, based on research carried out for the Institute of Public Policy Research, show not only the homogenous clusters that worry Trevor Phillips - but also ethnic mixing seemingly taking place through choice.
Two major ethnicities, for example, the Caribbean-born and the India-born, can be seen quite clearly in the Born Abroad maps moving out of inner cities into the leafier suburbs as the years pass. In other words, people who can afford to do so often appear to have little problem mixing on Acacia Avenue. And as older, economically-established ethnicities move out of the cities, Born Abroad shows new and more diverse peoples moving in - particularly young people drawn by the attractions of London. Building citizenship So what does this mean for policy? One of the big issues over the past five years has been whether or not government should be taking a leading role in defining what it is to be a British citizen.
Former Home Secretary David Blunkett was a fan of the idea and introduced citizenship ceremonies - but Britain has so far shied away from wrapping its people in the flag in the same way as you would find in America. Perhaps more importantly, although America has more than its fair share of a common national ethos, it is precisely the place that Trevor Phillips is warning Britain not to become. Since the London bombings there has been a return to these ideas, with a wide spectrum of thinkers - both from the left and the right - arguing that more needs to be done to build a sense among young people that this country is for all of them. Ted Cantle, the man who authored that key report into the 2001 riots, is soon to launch an institute dedicated to studying how to create "community cohesion". But once that's done, how much difference can remain? Should councils produce literature in English alone? Lambeth in London, for instance, produces literature in at least 10 languages. On the other hand, have policies aimed at fostering tolerance led to indifference towards each other, rather than an effort to build common values? Segregation first and foremost starts in the mind. The question is whether there is an easy way to get neighbours who may think the same, but not know it, to stop treating each other differently.