Where Billions Vanish

I think that Dr. Hoodbhoy's point of view about buying pelletron is reasonable with some reservation. which I want to ask you all people and to Dr. Pervez that Is pakistan have ever spent any money in a Scientific purpose.......
Now if they have spent it then be hopeful for the thing that it will be used for the research purpose only.
I agree with Dr. Pervez about the fact that in buying pelletron Prof. Riazuddin was Presurised to sign it.
Also I (Being an M.Phil student of at QAU know the situation) agree with Dr. Hoodbhoy that there is no any(except one or two) persons who wil researh on it. so it would be much batter that this large amout of Money would have been used in any other Scientific Area.
With a Positive Hope!!!
Aqeel A. Zia
Aqeel A. Zia

Re: # 143

The positive contributions of HEC towards Pakistani higher education should, of course, be recognized and appreciated.

However, this is not the same thing as to approve everything which HEC does.

To appreciating good things that HEC has done does not mean to close our eyes to many wrong decisions it has made.

We also cannot ignore many wrong policies which it has followed and is still following.

It was before HEC came into existence,that I had to go to KU for some work concerning someone very dear to me.Near the inside, of one of the gates, where I was waiting, I overheard some university students talking.They were lamenting the fact that the atmosphere for research at the university was poor, wanting, and not at all supportive.For many of the professors they had dissappointment to show. They were praying for PhDs in each and every department of the university, at least one in each department.Now there is HEC.PhDs are being churned out,checks and balances of quality are being exercised.There are still many departments of many Pakistani universities without a single PhD, but the dream has begun, and its turning into reality is quite possible.Having said that, lets, what the heck, support HEC.At least encourage it to provide and place at least one PhD Professor in each department of all the universities of Pakistan; where he would be able to be a good guide and mentor to his research scholars, drawing upon his own research experience.HEC must not form just a favorite nexus lumped with PhDs;doing elaborate research work on predetermined favorite topics, which feed international quest but not indigenous quest, but anyhow draw heavily on indigenous information. They consume billions of dollars and make our universities look like research outsourcing for international research study LABS.

Re: # 141

Hi nkg,

As far as I am aware of it, the article "Where Billions Vanish" and the subsequent 140 interactions do not addresses the matter of whether malpractices amongst teachers are less or equally justifiable as it is the case in other professions.

I think the points being raised in this article are the following:

a) It is not right to start a major project in science, which involves purchasing expensive equipment from the US and the West or elsewhere, using public money without some serious prior studies of project’s technical feasibility and without full participation of those scientists who would be expected to be involved in the project and who will use the purchased equipment for their research.

b) It is not right for the decision makers of a major project to use their power and influence to trick or bully the senior scientists in order to get their endorsement for their own wrong decisions.

c) It is not right for decision makers to use their power, influence, and their bullies in order to suppress the opinions of disagreeing scientists, especially when a nation-wide meeting of scientists is called to endorse “their� decision for starting a major project.

Viewer...
Have anybody tried to investigate the defence deals? Education department is part of society and they are also vulnurable to such kind of social problem. When, people have started hating school teachers for their practice of tution. Teachers reacted sharply. Why teachers should be seen as high moralprofessional? If everybody have the right to earn extra money why not teachers? Don't people of Pakistan pay bribe to police?
Procurement and kickbacks are very common practice in India too. That is reflection of our society as a whole.

Conslusion:

Masadi does not know what he is talking about.

Announcement:

In his post # 136 the interactor Masadi accuses the interactor Viewer of the following:

"Viewer made his first post on this thread by copying my post # 19"

As the records show Viewer's first post is numbered as # 15 and there is no way that the Masadi blame on Viewer as

" Viewer made his first post on this thread by copying my post # 19"

can be possible, as 15 is after all less than 19.

Announcement:

In his post # 136 the interactor Masadi accuses the interactor Viewer of the following:

"Viewer made his first post on this thread by copying my post # 19"

In post #137 Viewer requests Masadi to kindly indicate the Viewer's post # where Viewer has shown his disagreement with Masadi's post #19 and have made a citation to Masadi's post #19. The interactor Masadi disappears from the scene.

Re: # 136
I have no disagreement to what you have said in your post # 19 and neither have I cited this post anywhere in my posts to show a disagreement. Please indicate my post # where I have made a citation to your post # 19.

Viewer writes "O fool, so you are saying that it is OK that decision makers and bullies of this ill-fated country should keep on dumping the impoverished Physics departments with any equipment which they think is good "

Long before this idiot Viewer made his first post on this thread by copying my post # 19, in which I wrote:

#19 Posted by masadi on April 22, 2008 12:50:53 am
There are a million ways of legitimizing theft by the peons of the West when they get crumbs from their masters who dumb their useless, outdated, bogus industrial surplus that will do not even perform the function it was originally designed to perform, like those F-16s, the second hand ones with no air defense penetration capability and big (radar)signatures on them saying destroy us before we get a chance to fly- costing at the bare minimum $40 million a piece- you can bet your assets that the generals who approve such contracts are on the payroll of Lockheed Martin as they suck the blood of the Pakistani people. When I was teaching at the govt university the dept head had formed a great lucrative partnership with an HEC professor in order to get research grants in the millions after writing two page research proposals in bad english. Then he was dumping 4 classes on me of 60 students each, everyday and paying me Rs 25000 a month/ $390 a month, all included (after his initial offer of Rs 10,000 a month/month, $158, as salary while fleecing the people of millions- this is how they destroy this nation, and the money flows out to their white masters for such useless equipment and research that has not changed one life.
---


Now after reading this and perverting my comments to pursue his narrow agenda of "bitching for no purpose but axe grinding", viewer/PH tries to save face, proving himself to be a certified idiot who cannot understand simple prose. And for your kind information, nobody threw me out of the US, I have been back since I returned and go there at will whenever I choose...

Re: # 134
pls read first the article "Where Billions Vanish" and the 133 comments that have been made. You will find the answer. Don't waste my time.

What exactly is the point that you are conveying?

1.That Masadi sahib favours the import of useless equipment.

Or

2. That he is opposed to import of equipment which is necessary in your opinion.

Regards

Re: # 132
Pls read my message again.

Viewer,

Why do you consider life-saving machines superfluous???

And he has a point as to the rationale of buying scientific equipment which will not be used and khao jang as they say.

Regards

Re: # 130
"even $1 spent extra than is needed by a drowning nation is a $1 misspent"

I have no disagreement with is fragment, but it does not mean that I approve other fragments, or that I approve all.

Pls refer to:

"What is the goddamned use of physics departments and PH when neither students nor professors can use such equipment to do research?"

Here "such equipment" means "the equipment which is dumped without prior feasibility reports and studies done in the favour of its purchase by the experts in the same country who are expected to use the equipment in future" and not just any "superfluous equipment".

If this Maseedi guy is against the purchase of (any) superfluous equipment then tomorrow all hospitals should be banned from buying their life-saving machines as they are after all superfluous equipments.

Viewer,

Pls read his next sentence : "even $1 spent extra than is needed by a drowning nation is a $1 misspent"

This suggests that Masadi sahib disapproves of purchase of superfluous equipment.

Regards

Re: # 128
"I am of the impression that Masadi sahib was saying just the opposite of what you are imputing to him."

I disagee completely. Pls refer to # 122 again.

His "such equipment" is which I have referred to as "any equipment which bullies think is good for a Physics deptt for dumping purpose"

Viewer,

Re: 127

(so you are saying that it is OK that decision makers and bullies of this ill-fated country should keep on dumping the impoverished Physics departments with any equipment )

I am of the impression that Masadi sahib was saying just the opposite of what you are imputing to him.

(By the way, why the Chowk staff has not yet burnt your “books� and have not yet completely banned you.)

Why shud Masadi sahib be banned. He has as much a right to express his opinion on chowk as we have and maybe he is right and we are wrong.

There is no justification for banning Masadi sahib (or for that matter horsewhipping Tahmed sahib.)

Regards

Re: # 122
"What is the goddamned use of physics departments and PH when neither students nor professors can use such equipment to do research?"

O fool, so you are saying that it is OK that decision makers and bullies of this ill-fated country should keep on dumping the impoverished Physics departments with any equipment which they think is good (possibly for their own bank accounts) and then they start wondering why the students and professor are not able to use that for “research�.

Have these bullies made any prior surveys, studies, or have consulted those students or professors whom are likely to use the equipment?

I am shocked that you are absolutely unable to understand this much reason and claim to have written "books". I think the US did a right thing when they kicked you out from there and dumped you on us. Please refer to the nearest psychiatrist ward.

By the way, why the Chowk staff has not yet burnt your “books� and have not yet completely banned you.

Re: # 122

"the purpose of axe grinding against his colleagues"

So this Maseedi idiot of the highest imaginable order thinks (if he has such capability, which I really doubt he has) that he is not "axe grinding" when he submits his nonsense (mostly consisting of abuse) on this website.

I would request the Chowk staff to please ban this maniac and fool from any interaction on this website.

#122 Posted by masadi on April 29, 2008 5:36:01 am

you think people should stop spending money on science education and spend the money on your specialty, social sciences?

what a loser...

Re: # 121

nkg writes: If the instrument is installed, somehow students will use it ...

Of course this will be case and no one doubts that. If the instrument had come free of cost I will also think the same way.

When you have paid millions from public money you cannot simply say that it will somehow find some use.

The question being raised is that was there a more sensible way to buy a more sensible equipment. A sensible way that does not involve commissions given to the middle men or to the top men. A sensible way that first considers what our students need and whether some reseachers are going to benefit from the equipment.

It seems we are using public money to buy equipment first and then wonder what to do with it.

Re: # 122

maseedi writes: The bigger question you should be asking ...

So a lunatic issues an advice which questions are to be asked. Get lost ...

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 120
Viewer...

Ans: I am from India. I am not much familar with the culture of higher education ( if anything like that is there) in Pak. If the instrument is installed, somehow students will use it. If students fails to utlize that, then their is some attitude problem within the students. Most of the sophisticated equipments are basically operated by the PG students and reasearch scholoars than the professors.

Re: # 119
Thanks for your information.

I have one further question to anyone who likes to answer:

Refer to Prof. Hoodbhoy "On 8 September 2005 a nation-wide meeting was held in the physics department of Quaid-e-Azam University to look into the possible uses of the Pelletron"

Also refer to Prof. Hoodbhoy "Immediately upon reading Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman’s article (published in Dawn on 25 June 2005), I telephoned him. His answer: Dr. Riazuddin, director of the National Centre for Physics, had approved the machine."

From this it seems to me that:

The purchase had been approved by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, Dr. Att ur Rehman , and Prof. Riazuddin many months before nation-wide meeting was held in order to "to look into the possible uses of the Pelletron."

Can one or more of these 4 people explain to this nation of poor and starving people how it makes sense to hold a “nation wide� meeting to find the "possible uses of the Pelletron" after you have already made the decision to purchase this white elephant?

Everyone knows that you can easily bully the participants to endorse whatever decision you have already made.

The whole affair seems as if I live in a mud house and decide to buy a Dyson brand vacuum cleaner and then call a meeting of family & friends and use my resources to bully them to endorse that I have made a right decision and that some good use of the vacuum cleaner will after all be found. Is it difficult to get such an endorsement?

Of course, I will happily do that if:

a) I have a lot of money and don't know what to do with it

b) I am getting commission from making the deal to buy the Dyson vacuum cleaner

c) I am restless to prove to the world that I really want to do substantial and demonstrable things for the cleanliness of my house

Which one or more of the above is really the case will depend on further investigation if it proceeds any further. However, it is my impression that Prof. Riazuddin was unfortunately tricked by the powerful gang of three (Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad, and Dr. Att ur Rehman) just to obtain an endorsement for the purchase of this white elephant.

Viewer:

I think he did warn on Chowk. Read this from his 2005 article.......


PROJECTS GONE ASTRAY

On June 25, 2005 the HEC chairman announced that the Higher Education Commission has sanctioned 180 million rupees ($3 million) for the establishment of a 5 MeV tandem Van de Graaf accelerator to be housed at the National Center for Physics, Quaid-e-Azam University. He described it as a "national facility" that will "accelerate the generation of competent scientific and technical manpower within the country".

For those familiar with the field, this is nonsense. Such Van de Graaf machines were the mainstay of research in physics seventy years ago. They are useless for cutting edge science research today. They are, at best, museum pieces.

The reader, who wishes to see what the developed world is doing with such equipment, should visit the website:
www.its.caltech.edu/~arice/tandem.html. This contains an obituary, written many years ago, at Caltech: "After 38 years of service to the Nuclear Astrophysics and Material Science communities, [Caltech’s tandem Van de Graaf accelerator] facility has closed. Sorry to see the old machines fade away. This one had been very good to us. Not putting it too delicately; the machine was cut up and sold for scrap." That scrap -- or more likely scrap from elsewhere -- is now headed for Quaid-e-Azam University where it will add to other scrap imported over the decades.

Still more inexplicable wastage: the HEC chairman says that another 164 million rupees will be spent on an experimental physics laboratory at QAU.
Alas, no researcher there -- who are my colleagues -- acknowledges being informed, much less consulted on the purpose and nature of the laboratory.

The department’s chairman alone admitted knowledge of the project, but flatly refused to divulge details. A pessimistic conclusion is that, as in the past, these millions will also prove to be highly enriching but not to science in Pakistan.

Much to the dismay of PH/Viewer, ignore #115, I have found a way around the link messup regarding ilogs, the drop down menu above is the key. I am not banned from ilogging...and have recently posted a gallery pic of tahmed and hamidm, their linage trace to the freshly imported one from Afghanistan is yet to be determined

Viewer/PH writes "and arrange burning of whatever you have managed "

Here is PH advocating book burning and censorship, while talking "science". The moron that he is, he doesn't realize what an oxymoron his recommendation is

Re: # 115
Glad to know this and wish that the Chowk staff extends their partial ban to the removal of all of your records and arrange burning of whatever you have managed to publish.

I Have been blocked by Chowk Staff from posting new ilogs or gallery items, when I go to write an ilog it takes me to the list of ilogs, a dead end. This is outrageous, I demand that my right as a member poster here be restored, my articles that were censored released and the section where ilogs are posted opened up for my gems, immediately

Three years after I have been writing these things on Chowk, and at least 8 years after I penned them in my published articles, this Economist merely repeats the same- good to note that people through various avenues are coming to the same logical conclusion:

Rogue Economics
Capitalism's New Reality
Loretta Napoleoni

Rogue Economics offers a fascinating view of how terribly wrong things have gone. Loretta Napoleoni's book is an alarm, warning us to wake up ...more
—John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man

Description

Respected economist and syndicated journalist Loretta Napoleoni shows how he world is being reshaped by dark economic forces creating victims out of millions of ordinary people whose lives have become trapped inside a fantasy world of consumerism. The world has become overrun by organizations, both private and public, which have accumulated vast fortunes and enormous political influence by regulating, containing, and manipulating the market to their own advantage. From Eastern Europe’s booming sex trade industry to China’s “online sweatshops,� from al-Qaeda’s underwriters to America’s subprime mortgage lending scandal, Rogue Economics exposes the paradoxical economic connections of the new global marketplace.

-----------

Yesterday I heard her interview on the BBC World Service on my SW radio, she compared the discription to the Matrix- an analogy of global insitutional domination by the US elite that I have been using for a long time now.....

Viewer is deligently reading my posts addressed to PH and replying to them as well. Why are you hiding behind a nick PH, so afraid and humiliated by your pathetic self? Regarding your donkey ride, even in insults you cannot be original and have to copy-paste from your opponents discription. Your donkey ride where the donkey will be freshly imported from Afghanistan, will be a specticle indeed, a donkey with two a-holes...

Re: # 111
Maseedi is a source of entertainment indeed. Are you sure "someone like masadi saab" was not really Maseedi himself? May be you are a little bit forgetful as he had gone through such experiences during his childhood and to which he remains fond of making references. I have already offered him to play the role of donkey and I will mostly happily ride him through the city of Lahore and elsewhere.

Re: # 110

viewri saab, this reminds me of when i was a child saab. someone like masadi saab was on the khota and all the kids were shouting....paaghal...e...oye.

Re: # 107

"The guy needs to be horsewhipped tied to the rear end of a donkey as the kids jeer and hit him with slippers all through Lahore town"

Not sure about PH, but I would certainly enjoy this ride if Maseedi takes the role of donkey.

Re: # 107
Ha Ha this maseedi guy is a good entertainer and I am really not left with a desire anymore to prove that I have nothing to do with Prof. Hoodbhoy. I am just an ordinary reader of his writings like many others. Maseedi, why don't you pick up your phone and ask Prof. Hoodbhoy if he is aware of someone called Viewer.

BTW chowk staff have meticulouly removed the heavy discussion articles in their daily jamadara effort to block dissent.........

Viewer writes "a) Prof. Hoodbhoy should have had reported, at least on Chowk.com"

Chowk is not his official "bitching like a scorned daughter in law" board. The sooner they remove his articles and his sorry a$$ from posting here the better. The guy has no concern about the country which he'd sell to the highest western media bidder, as he does- sometimes just for recognition and fame, for free. The guy needs to be horsewhipped tied to the rear end of a donkey as the kids jeer and hit him with slippers all through Lahore town. Viewer is making a futile attempt to try to prove that he is not PH, the attempt is futile, we all know that PH is Viewer and Viewer is PH, and what a pathetic ability at reasoning he has....

Re: # 104

I partially disagree with this and hold the view that he is also responsible to certain extent because:

a) Prof. Hoodbhoy should have had reported, at least on Chowk.com, about what really happened on 8 September 2005 in the nation-wide meeting.

b) He should have had done this soon afterwards the meeting took place or at least sufficiently sooner to guarantee that it gets noticed by the HEC and the government officials, and also by his readers on Chowk.com, BEFORE a decision of purchase was going to be made. I believe to do this was certainly possible for him.

c) Prof. Hoodbhoy writes:

"But the project’s proponents clearly had something else in mind. And it was not a plan of work. They bussed in supporters from near and far who filled the auditorium. Few had even heard of the Pelletron, but they had
been instructed to shout in its favour and hoot down all who questioned the need to buy one. I had urged at that meeting that the machine could be purchased but only if some clear scientific purposes was identified. This
plea was roundly rejected on grounds that uses would automatically develop once the machine arrives"

This reason for not forcefully putting forward what he thought during the meeting on 8 September 2005 does not appear very much convincing to me, especially in view of the fact that the machine is an accelerator, which seem to be related to his areas of expertise, and that he is associated with the QAU for over thirty years, the place where the machine was going to be installed.

I mean to say is that if he had suspicions whether the machine was going to find use after its installation at the University, where he has had taught for over thirty years, he must have had expressed those more forcefully very soon after the meeting on 8 September 2005 or possibly in early 2006 so that the people in power could have listened to his and Prof. Riazuddin's views before making their decision to purchase.

Re: # 56
This reminded me of Bofors scandal prove... Investigating officers enjoyed paid vacation to Swizerland. No positive result so far...More money is spent on the investigation than actual amout of corruption...

Mr. Hoodbhoy comes out clear in this conflict as is evident from the response of Mr. Riazuddin. However, Mr. Riazuddin's position is not as clear as he sounds as the letter clearly is giving a green flag for the purchase.

#102 Viewer/PH writes "yes, a food for thought to the educators so as to causes them diarrhea "

How do you know are you their personal bathroom cleaner? That said, how come you are very interested in my posts now after saying "who cares"? Hypocrite. Your posts show that all you are capable of are brain farts and dishonesty- not having read an article you comment on it, blindly support your pos (piece of sh**) articles, and rail against your colleagues because you have a personal axe to grind and are just downright jealous of them. PH you're an a-hole and a certified idiot...

Re: # 101
yes, a food for thought to the educators so as to causes them diarrhea

PH/Viewer writes "So a piece from a paranoid schizophrenic "

So now this fool claims to be a shrink as well and comes up with copy-pasted diagnosis from the wannabe (US elite). Show us what you have produced that has provided food for thought to the educators in this country. Show us or shut the F up.....fool

Re: # 98

So a piece from a paranoid schizophrenic got circulated in all the universities of this country thanks to Ata ur Rahman. I am not surprised at all, it has happened many times before.

Re: # 98

So a piece from a paranoid schizophrenic got circulated in all the universities of this country thanks to Ata ur Rahman. I am not surprised at all, it has happened many times before.

NOt only that you're a liar, claiming that you "don't care" and dont read what I write while you have been deligently doing that and replying to it as well. Regarding my piece on education circulated in all the universities of this country thanks to Ata ur Rahman, who forwarded it to Ishrat Hussein who forwarded it to all the universities in this country, I doubt you have even read it, while comprehending it is much beyond your "pay scale"...fool

Viewer/PH writes " O Maseedi, I have nothing to do with PH and even disagree with some of his views. Most of what he writes, however, is definitely sensible to me"

Don't try to save face with this BS, it is "sensible" to you because just like him you read and comprehend at the mediocre high school level- while copy pasting this from me claim that my writings are for school children. You are not even original in your contrived insults and made up claims!

viewer writes "By the way "Overcoming the Colonial Subordination Model of Education" is a cut-paste-type piece of writing meant for school children.."

A-hole I spent 8 hours composing that from scratch and you make the baseless allegation that its a "cut and paste", just like you were making baseless allegations against ata ur rahman. Show me where its cut and pasted from it that is indeed what it is I, I challenge you. Lying sob.

Re: # 94
Thanks for advice

Re: # 93

Mr viewer sir,

I wouldn't worry too much about this paranoid schizophrenic.

Regards

The US Elite

Re: # 92
This the real tragedy of this nation. No one can even imagine a situation of having independent views and judgements. Everyone is assumed to follow some pir, jagga, dictator etc . O Maseedi, I have nothing to do with PH and even disagree with some of his views. Most of what he writes, however, is definitely sensible to me. By the way "Overcoming the Colonial Subordination Model of Education" is a cut-paste-type piece of writing meant for school children. Keep on wasting your life.

PH/Viewer writes "The only thing I would like to say is that LET THE DOGS BARK, WHO CARES? "

You care that is why you wrote this sh** The lying sob that you are. So pavo decides to join the PH bandwagon. Have you read what this fool writes? Compare his BS to my article on "Overcoming the Colonial Subordination Model of Education"- unless you change the structure pumping money at the top wont change anything, Ata ur Rahman and the others are small fish, you lose the bigger picture when you pick on personalities like PH/Viewer does because he has personal axes to grind, it does not fix anything, but how would PH/Viewer know this when the best he can manage is write articles at the High School level and that also of a mediocre stundent. The only barking, meaningless, useless barking is by PH, people recognize him for his "scorned wife so I want to cry a river " methodology. Go F yourself, you have never amounted to anything on the social-intellectual scene and never will...a laughing stock that is what you become whenever you open your goddamned mouth...

good article . atta needs to be hanged upside down . what a clown this atta and all those mediocres.hoodhbhoy is right but in pakistan if a man speaks the truth he is hit by stones everywhere , what a hopeless country occupied by army and other thugs.

Re: # 88
Hi MASEEDI,
The only thing I would like to say is that LET THE DOGS BARK, WHO CARES?

In #88 read "knre that as far as interacting goes" as

know that as far as interacting goes

PH/Viewer writes "Not to mention, of course, our “Political Hero� who broke Pakistan into two. "

The "political hero" had nothing to do with the breaking up of Pakistan, the colonials who did the partition, and the Pakistan military who acted as catalyst by their methodology for this foregone conclusion are related to the "breakup". The Political Hero had everything to do with lifting up the masses of this country and incorporating them into the structure of power thereby putting to an end the colonial/Pak Army shenanigans regarding "Islam Khatray mein hai". What the "Atomic Hero" did was with full knowledge both of the Pak Army as well as the CIA, just because they decided to make him the fall guy does not mean he was alone in the entire affair of proliferation which is greatly PROMOTED by the Americans.

Pervez Hoodbhoy/Viewer you are an ignorant a-hole with personal axes to grind, it is no secret that you worship the white man and his ways, ways that moreso than any director or "hero" are ensuring that this nation remains underdeveloped; so best go F yourself and leave this nation and its problem solving to those who have half a clue about what's going on.

P.S You are even more ignorant as an interactor compared to an article writer- Thank you for reaffirming this moronic side of yours. People who read your interview with Noam Chomsky-who btw recognized how ignorant you were by your questions regarding science that showed a total ignorance of science and were a disgrace to this country, knre that as far as interacting goes you do so at the typical level of a fifth grader, your articles are written at the high school grade, that also of a mediocre student....

Re: # 76
Mubasher writes:

"Pakistanis consider him (Atta ur Rehman) their hero in science"

Re:

Here comes the “Science Hero� as if the “Atomic Hero� and the “Missile Hero� were not enough for this nation.

This Atomic Hero sells hard-earned high level technological secrets and knowledge to fill his own pocket with Dollars. Each ordinary employee of this Atomic Hero’s “Bomb Factory� are thoroughly checked each afternoon for the possibly finding a floppy in his side pocket(s), while this "Hero", also for many years known to be the “Project Director�, goes ahead to sell truck-full of technical and sensitive equipment to fill his personal bank account(s), possibly in Swiss bank(s) or bank(s) in Dubai.

Here comes the “Missile Hero� who continues to rob the government every year of the cash which is most direly needed by poor, starving, uneducated Pakistanis for basic amenities like food, drinking water, basic schooling for children, and other basic necessities of their meager existence. This “Hero� gives this ill-fated nation Missiles in return, so that they can easily kill in millions equally-poor and starving citizens of the neighboring country. This Hero appoints his son, and sons of his “friends�, at much younger age, to the key positions of being the “Director� of one of the “Divisions� under him.

Now, here comes the “Science Hero� who is given access to big money by a Dictator. He tries to buy researchers and their research papers by big offers of money. He puts in place purely discriminatory practices of “Foreign Faculty Hiring Program� and the program of “Appointment of PhD Scholars Returning from Abroad�. A PhD scholar coming from abroad is given higher and un-pretentious priority over a scholar coming from a local university, both in terms of his appointment and his salary. After all, it is very simple and easy to adapt such a policy though it may be at the cost of ruining whatever meager infrastructure this ill-fated nation has had for PhD training. Many renowned researchers leave the country in protest against the irrational policies of this “Science Hero�. This, of course, includes Prof. Bokhari of UET, Lahore, who was the only Pakistani in the ISI list of highly cited researchers.

Not to mention, of course, our “Political Hero� who broke Pakistan into two.

In #84 READ "This is allegation and claim only based on your word, a hole. Reproduce for us i) The alleged copied pages ii) The place where they have been copied for and iii) prove that ii predates i and then prove that the author has not referenced them"

as

This is an allegation and claim only based on your word, a hole. Reproduce for us i) The alleged copied pages ii) The place where they have been copied from and iii) prove that ii predates i and then prove that the author has not referenced ii

---

p.s and keep reading this like tasbih "PH is a certified idiot"

PH you're a certified idiot...

#76 PH writes "small booklet on NMR in which he reproduced..."

This is allegation and claim only based on your word, a hole. Reproduce for us i) The alleged copied pages ii) The place where they have been copied for and iii) prove that ii predates i and then prove that the author has not referenced them.

2. 60 books (no mention of length of books is done) is well within the capacity of an average human being to produce in his life time.

The fact is that these types of "evidence" where PH (viewer) has an axed to grind against his colleagues just doesn't hold water. Now Ata ur Rahman might have have plaigirized stuff but PH (viewer) has no clue about it, the kind of slip shod manner in which he has presented his "evidence" is similar to how PH writes his BS articles.

Re: # 76

Mubasher,
Some evidence is indeed gathering up in favour of this allegation:

a) Atta ur Rehman wrote a small booklet on NMR in which he reproduced pages from other books especially of rotating and stationary frames/co-ordinates math. Chemical spectras and their resonance frequencies were just cut and paste. And he is prosecuting people for pliargism (as NangaPir has written)

b) Above provides support for further allegation that having written 60 books and hundreds of research articles cannot be done in real life and with honesty without fair amount of pliargism and exploitation of your subordinates

Re: # 80
Now that the mythology of the peons of the West has been busted yet once again)

what have i done now saab?
i havenot written any mythologies saab, it is all in your head saab. you should get treatment saab

and Re # 81

later....much later......)

thank you Allah Mian saab

later....much later......

Now that the mythology of the peons of the West has been busted yet once again, let the jamadars and chaprasees, the hamids and tahmeds congregate here to collect their shattered pieces and then whelp out of here the canines that they are..............not to mention the way they look...dog ugly.......

mubasher writes "Several people on this website are alleging Prof. AttauRahman as plagiarist researcher. I would ask them to produce evidences to justify their claim"

People with personal axes to grind like viewer/PH in hiding seldom produce any evidence, all they have, as is evident from their posts and writings, is a misuse of the scientific method, slogans about science, and a lack of understanding regarding how scientifically to present evidence and make generalizations- all they have is their personal turf that they try defending because of a holier than thou attitude- Understand this paragraph and you'll understand 99% of what Hoodbhoy the sob writes...........

Chowk editors you don't have to torture the members here. At the very least remove the dog ugly mugshot of PH, and never reproduce it with his dimwitted articles, even better don't publish his sh** on this site, his mugshot and his moronic ideas make me sick.....

hamid writes "masadi mian,

......... you have written a book ?"

Don't act ignorant. Not a book, many books. Arjun gave me an advance to write one on his household practice of eating through the anal orfice and excreting through the mouth, but I declined the offer. Regarding the ones I wrote, you should create an entire masadi section in your study and say "g'night sweet prince" in its direction every night before you retire.........................

Several people on this website are alleging Prof. AttauRahman as plagiarist researcher. I would ask them to produce evidences to justify their claim or otherwise stop doing propaganda against him. Pakistanis consider him their hero in science.

masadi mian,

......... you have written a book ? .... when, where and why?... has anyone bought it ... more importantly, has anyone read it and why ? ...did you write it all by yourself, or was it 'revealed' ?

......... congratulations, anyway

#71 Posted by masadi on April 24, 2008 1:47:23 am


writing books that challenge the mainstream status quo.


writing books on how people should eat through their anal orifices instead of their mouths isn't challenging the mainstream status quo....

It is a myth that QAU is a prestigious institute. Yes to extent that it has budget many times more than other schools. Right in Physics department is a full professor who was recruited in Kashmir University. He wrote a physics book. One divided by zero equal zero professor. This guy copied electronic circuits from another book but got inverted in his book. Also he did not know basic concept- only long derivations as they do in QAU. Electrodynamic by Jackson is a Ph.D book taught to undergraduates there. What else can you expect from them - only rotting. The same is the case with all other courses such Quantum Mech by Schiff, or Classical Mechanics taught by Zafar is another disaster. Anyway when Kashmir Univeristy found this pliargism they fired him. His name is Zaka Ullah. They also found he had third division in FSc. He forcefully went back to the class and the students beat the crap out of him. He escaped from Principal's office back window which still has torn screen. Anyway, he was given fellowship at QAU, did his Ph.D. with Murtaza became full professor. How come a dhaka dherry university rejects one and becomes full professor at this so called prestigious university?

later...

#70- the only "crap" is in your interact. You cannot make a living writing books that challenge the mainstream status quo. If I decided to make a living out of writing, I'd have starved by now. It is impossible to have read and assessed what is on that website in so short a time period but as usual dishonest bigots like yourself excel in making dishonest generalizations like your friend PH/Viewer, who being a sellout needs to be put on a donkey paraded through Lahore town as kids whip his a$$ with slippers and jeer at him. The guy is a certified sob and looks dog ugly as well...

Thanks masadi,

I did have a quick look at your website. Good to know that you make a living out of this kind of crap, you are a man of letters, even though they are written backwards in your thinking process.

Good to have you on chowk and hope it will increase your book sales and web traffic.

Viewer writes "dear masadi saab,
I have a sincere advice for you..."

My sincere advice to you: Go F yourself hypocrite...

In #66 read "Here this well" as "Hear this well"

Jayp writes "the educated elites of pakistan the likes of tahmed, zeemax and you are so fond of using abusive language."

Very moved by your hypocritical sensibilities. Most of the dirty language used here is reproduced in the bigotry of Hindus like yourself. The language I use is for the peons of the West who sell out the nation, it is never unprovoked.

Viewer writes "Masadi,

The factual situation is that like me no one bothers what you write or say so please keep on wasting your life.

When PH says something many people, as can be witnessed by the counter records on his articles, read and listen as he has some valid point to us to ponder."

You have no clue about what the "factual" situation is neither do you know about the popularity of my posts here. As far as counters go, they reveal less the number that have read the article and more the interacts of which mine are quite popular- by the comments they ilicit, the counters on my articles published here (depending on the topic) were as high or higher than this counter, check the counter on my profile as well. Regarding "wasting my life"- I have achieved more in it and shared more ideas than you will manage in two lifetimes, nobody gives any importance to PHs BS other than propaganda mainstream networks on which he touts his anti-Islam sentiment. Let us see you produce one decent interact, other than claims, and him produce one decent article other than renarration of the Physics department newsletter and railing against his colleagues, and then we can talk. And don't lie about not reading my posts like tahmed, you read them deligently, and it is not that you just read one and decided to respond to it, after responding to earlier ones. Here this well: you are an a-hole, live with that and your life will keep wasting by itself regardless of your nonsense posts...

Re: # 60

masadi,

The core values of a society are reflected in all aspects of its workings.

Pakistan is a totally corrupt society, the latest example of thsi whole sale corruption is the way the NAB was set up, thousands of people harassed and now all of the cses have been withdrawn.

If that is the standard at the highest level, and accepted by all in the society including the legal fraternity with out a wimper, why should the academics have a higher standard.

You can see that on chowk, the educated elites of pakistan the likes of tahmed, zeemax and you are so fond of using abusive language and is an indication of how you deal with other pakistanis around you on a day to day basis.

Pakistan is a corrupt society and the academics have to follow the social rule.

#61, check the website http://www.asadi.org

The wannabes write "Masadi,

due to your constant whining, we have decided to support your application for an American visa..."

Go F yourself, PH needs your visa services I do not.

The wannabes write "Masadi,

due to your constant whining, we have decided to support your application for an American visa..."

Go F yourself, PH needs your visa services I do not.

Re: # 58

Masadi,

If your book is so well read, can you provide the name so that we all can benefit.

Skip this request if the book is about suicide wests, which no doubt changes peoples lives.

The a-hole writes "I confirm that Pakis are indeed stupid and pliargism is a norm there even at the highest level, and Dr Atta ur Rehman is definitely not an exception. After all, he claims to have written sixty books and hundreds of research articles. Who knows and who have the courage to ask him how much pliargism he himslef has done...."

And how do you know all this, let us have access to your research and your scales of "stupidity" which you have deciphered using a cross section random sample of the Pakistani population to conclude that "pakis are indeed stupid and plagirism is the norm" Further, just because someone has written 60 books does not mean he has plagirised them. A-holes like you who make big claims without any evidence or even an attempt at evidence contribute to the tabloid "shit" that is produced by the tons every year. The luxury of elitist basic science" for the sake of curiosity at the expense of public funds, at public institutions of higher learning just cannot be tolerated when the basic needs of the public are not being met. Every newbie fool who starts posting here having not a clue about anything, let alone "science", and making unscientific generalizations, thinks he's God's gift to humanity. You kind are a dime a dozen here, you think people think highly of your sh**.

A pelletron accelerator for research on nuclear and particle physics? This must go down as one of the best jokes in science history books.

It is indeed an irony, the way these hard earned billions have gone down the drain. Everybody knows the fate met by the Cockraft Walton accelerator installed at CASP, GCU Lahore, and that was just a donation, but nobody learnt a lesson. Their focus seems to be on sheer quantity while no significant enhancement in quality of research being conducted in Pakistan is visible. Heck, i'd say it's rather deteriorated over recent years.

Viewer writes "After all, millions of books are written every year that only desereve to be binned and if you contributed to that junk who cares.
"

And without reading any of it how did you come to the conclusion you miserable dimwit (PH hiding behind the viewer nick and tooting your own horn). Unlike you and PH, my report on the state of education in Pakistan was circulated among all universities in Pakistan, my books 8 years after publication, a couple of them, rank higher on amazon several times a year than even the mainstream books after 2 years, people here respect my writings and I have changed multiple lives. You on the other hand are a sellout a-hole, have no clue about social structure leave alone the structure of our society and pontificate using your BS and now lacking the balls to reveal yourself hide behind the viewer nick- Hoodbhoy go F yourself!

Masadi,

due to your constant whining, we have decided to support your application for an American visa.

We promise to facilitate your rehabilitation and subsequent release back into the wild.

Take care and don't bite anyone as it may be contagious.

The US Elite

Prof. Hoodbhoy writes at the end of his artcile:

"It is now time for parliament to carry out a full and complete public inquiry into the irresponsible and crazy policies that have hitherto been the hall-mark of decision-making."

I request to ask him if he really thinks that our parliament can really do this job. I believe that even if the parliament starts a public enquiry into the "accelerator deal" the only outcome will be that some more pockets of corrupt higher ups will be filled by the public money.

Re: # 30
Charlie writes:

"I have two questions to ask. To Pervez Hoodbhoy: I know you are a well reputed researcher in the west. Can you please enlighten me if your reearch work has some application for third world nations like Pakistan? If no, Can you please stop crying as your research is as wasteful to Pakistani resources as this new machine. And same question goes to HEC and HEJ chief. For last eight years, you have been sitting on top. Show me one technological breakthough that might have affected the life of a common Pakistani with the all money spent on useless research. Even those auto-mechanics , who find the ways to LPG cylinders in rickshaws, have served the country more than your thousands papers cited several thousand times."

Re: Dear Charlie,
I think the objective of doing basic science is not to improve the quality of living for ordinary people. From this viewpoint basic science is indeed useless as you have said, unless it leads immediately to benefit industry and applied science.

However, I think this argument is still not sufficient to say that basic science should not be done at all, as you have said. Some people will always like to do that even when they remain hungry and starved. But, as you have implied, the practice of pure science of course cannot be funded from the pockets of poor masses of Pakistan, half of those lack access to clean water and required number of calories in daily diet.

Re: # 40
NangaPir (what a fantastic name) writes:

"The irony is that Atta ur Rehman wrote a small booklet on NMR in which he reproduced pages from other books especially of rotating and stationary frames/co-ordinates math. Chemical spectras and their resonance frequencies were just cut and paste. And he is prosecuting people for pliargism. What is going on? Are people in Pakistan are so stupid?"

I confirm that Pakis are indeed stupid and pliargism is a norm there even at the highest level, and Dr Atta ur Rehman is definitely not an exception. After all, he claims to have written sixty books and hundreds of research articles. Who knows and who have the courage to ask him how much pliargism he himslef has done.

Re: # 40
NangaPir writes:

"How a paupper state has the luxury to spend hard earned money to do research in quark's polarization when its own people have no access to clean water?"

This is indeed a real point. Please first fix the QAU toilets, teach the QAU students how to use toilets, provide them with clean water, and provide them some better opportunities to have their lunches than those slum feeding places notoriously known as "huts" which are the only options for the students' lunches. These eating places are also excellent locations for getting infected with diarrhea and hepatitis A and B.

Match this real situation at QAU with “Pelletron accelerator� being installed there. Then they wonder why people don’t like to work there on Pelletron-accelerator-type projects, and instead opt to leave their homeland.

I had a recent opportunity to visit QAU, which included visiting some of its hostels.

I continue to wonder while HEC approves 400 million Rupees for buying fancy machines for QAU, can some of its officials have an chance to visit any toilet any where in QAU departments or hostels.

S/he will find broken flushes everywhere and obnoxious toilet smell even when you happen to be 500 meters away. I am not sure whether the same is the case inside HEC building.

This is the real situation of this University where best Physics research seems to be produced and where "accelerators" are being installed.

Could the officials of HEC (and the maintenance sections of QAU as well) please pay their attention to the meagre issues of fixing their toilets first, while the illegitimate import and the installation of “accelerator� is being carried out there.

Prof. Riazuddin writes:

"Nobody, including Dr Hoodbhoy, was against buying the accelerator per se. But what we were concerned about was whether one can make a sensible programme for its use."

I am quite surprised to read this especially when it comes from a very senior scientist of Pakistan.

Instead of a "sensible programme" deciding which equipment should be imported within the meager resources of a poor country, Riazuddin seems to have had endorsed (by finally putting his signatures) that this expensive equipment will somehow lead to the creation of some "sensible programme".

Knowing the realistic situation regarding the scientific manpower in the country, I think Prof. Riazuddin should not have had endorsed purchasing the accelerator even when his arms were being twisted (as it seems to be the case) by Dr MubarakMand and Dr Ishfaq Ahmed --the powerful guys of Pakistani weak science infrastructure.

Re: # 35
masadi writes:

"you have no clue about any of my thousands of posts and multiple articles that I have contributed on chowk...."

Re:

dear masadi saab,
I have a sincere advice for you.

The factual situation is that like me no one bothers what you write or say so please keep on wasting your life.

When PH says something many people, as can be witnessed by the counter records on his articles, read and listen as he has some valid point to us to ponder.

If I haven't given a d**n to what you have ever written apart from your recent post, don't think I am ever going to do that by your boasting of having written thousands of comments and "books". After all, millions of books are written every year that only desereve to be binned and if you contributed to that junk who cares.

Re: # 42

masadi saab

You haven't read a single book in your life how can you comment on 5? Regarding the medicine, the doctor told you to shove it in your a$$ twice daily and hope for the best- listen to his advice you goddamned idiot....]

I have read all of yours saab and didn't spend a single rupee either saab, clever no? they werenot worth that any way saab

as for the medicine saab, on the suppository it says "for masadi saab's ass only" saab, not for general human consumption saab

the copy paste on many sites saab, because your skull is very thick saab

#45 Posted by zeemax on April 23, 2008 8:23:41 am

jihadi rodent: go sell some scissors or something..fucking paki government baabu

#30 Posted by Charlie,

Even those auto-mechanics , who find the ways to LPG cylinders in rickshaws, have served the country more than your thousands papers cited several thousand times.

Very well said indeed.

#30 Posted by Charlie,

Even those auto-mechanics , who find the ways to LPG cylinders in rickshaws, have served the country more than your thousands papers cited several thousand times.

Very well said indeed.

So this bhootbhoy is now reduced to griping over budget allocations.

Abey chutya bhootbhoy, get your priorities right, and stop complaining. You're not the only one who's right all the time. Learn! You were the one who was supporting bombings of Pakistan's own people. And now you want budget allocations?

Fuck off is the only advice I can give you.

as Fox news declared on several occassions with interviews and photos and what not that WMDs had been found- push them hard enough and they will defend that assertion even today!

In addition to (from #41)

"Maybe if GWB had learnt from his slaves he could have hired a few folk to manufacture WMD in Iraq after they landed there..........."

To give that fool (GWB) the benefit of the doubt, he test marketed it on several occassions (this manufacture of WMD), as Fox news declared on several occassions with interviews and photos and what not, the people just didn't buy it, so they gave up the idea.............

peon writes "masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab"

Why are you copy-pasting the same shit on multiple boards? Like I said in response, you haven't read a single book in your life because your masters have kept them out of your hands, how then can you comment on 5?

Nangapir "How a paupper state has the luxury to spend hard earned money to do research in quark's polarization when its own people have no access to clean water? "

It is called window dressing mastered by the peons of the West in power positions as they imitate their masters, in the case of Pakistan, the Pakistan Army's dictators. Look at the state of women in Pakistan, illiteracy, maternal mortality, status within the family, life expectancy etc- the real indicators that need to be changed and what do these peons do? They give a dozen females motorbikes and make them traffic constables, give a handful of females some chinese fighter jets and make them fighter pilots and poof with this window dressing the entire problem of female status differentials is fixed overnight.....genius aint it? Maybe if GWB had learnt from his slaves he could have hired a few folk to manufacture WMD in Iraq after they landed there...........

This is the first and only article I actually read on Chowk. My question to Prof. Hoodbhoy:

If it is an accelerator then shouldn't it be 5 MeV not 5 MW. Or people at your school really understand the difference between these terms. I believe you having undergrad in engineering would be well aware of it. What type of research you can conceive in biology as it is useless for other particle research since the partilce physics domain has moved way up in their search? Most radiobiolgy research is done with radionuclides whether it is short lived gold or medium energy I-125, or for imaging (ie cardiac imaging) Thalium. How in the hell this will produce those short lived radioisotopes? Don't they already have one (about 10 MW reactor) at PINSTECh which runs on average a total of 27 hours in a year period?
The second question is about NMR at HEJ. Salim-uz-Zman Siddiqui (father of Arif-Zaman - Hoodbuy's ex colleague) got 5-6 NMR. Now they have 12. He got all in donations. Why will they pay more to get extra and for what? And how they afford for cryogenics and who pays and what is the return so far? It needs a thorough investigation. And their entire research is on local plant extracts such as Keeker (acacia and Mulburry) or Jamno (Syzigium Jambolinium) or you name it. India is earning billions from these products so does China. Where is Pakistan in reaping the benefits? The reason is: the same research is done in Indian colleges and Chinese institutes but years ahead of Pakistan. I met a guy from HEJ and he told me he was working on cancer drug. Unfortunately he had no basic concept in cancer as a disease or its biology. The irony is that Atta ur Rehman wrote a small booklet on NMR in which he reproduced pages from other books especially of rotating and stationary frames/co-ordinates math. Chemical spectras and their resonance frequencies were just cut and paste. And he is prosecuting people for pliargism. What is going on? Are people in Pakistan are so stupid? Why not the Physics department does research in wind energy and solar and hydel. Just build some small generators and install them in nearby stream or wind on Margalla hills. It seems that the whole country is heading into a blackhole.
One information for the good professor. Your UGC is paying million of dollars in research funds to overseas Pakistanis and other professors as joint research projects. It is a way to buy research papers. Other countries bring in money. How a paupper state has the luxury to spend hard earned money to do research in quark's polarization when its own people have no access to clean water?

Re: # 38
Jay Pee,

Return to your kennel now. Enough cut-and-paste from Pak papers.

RAW must innovate or die....

hERE IS YET ANOTHER WAY TO ROB PAKIS OF BILLIONS. Security cameras in opakistan, what a joke, as though people are not being caught because of lack of evidence.

It is the law, stupid pakis. In pakistan, murder is not a crime against the society, that is why honopur killing persists because the close families refuse to file an FIR.

That is the only reason why the ehdi foundation is well loved by the pakis, they are the ones that bury the bodies that clutter teh streets of pakistan.

Change the laws, the cameras will not help.

First of all they will be stolen. It is yet another attempt by the pakis to pretend to be a civilised society.

from dawn of today


KARACHI: Plan to install 2,000 security cameras being finalized



By Imran Ayub


KARACHI, April 22: The newly appointed police administration has started preparing for the much-awaited strike against street crimes, which includes a proposal for installing more than 2,000 security cameras across the city.

The police hierarchy is likely to take up business formally on Wednesday, when top cops will visit the Citizens-Police Liaison Committee (CPLC) for an insight into the crime trend mainly in Karachi and discuss the strategy with the support of the community.

Re: # 36

masadi saab, all your books keep repeating the same thing saab, same as what you say here saab, over and over and over and over.........and over again saab

teeeeeedious saab

i have the medicine here saab

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Re: # 33

peonoftheeast saab,

Thanks for the information about masadi.

I am surprised to know that masadi might be capable of writing three worthy pages, even though it might have had happened three years ago (accidently perhaps).

By his views, I have, possibly unintentionally, started to recognize masadi by "MASEEDI".

Re: # 32

vieweri saab

masadi saab wrote three pages worth some years ago saab and he makes it short or long depending on the occasion saab

it is the same thing all the time saab. unfortunately he keeps forgetting to take his medicine saab

To masadi,
I have now come to gradual but firm belief that the only comment you can make is to start personal attacks on the writer, instead of saying anything related to the point that this courageous writer has tried to make.

It seems to me that your imagination goes no further than this mentioned limit. The point being made by this author courageous, bold, honest, sincere and rational, which needs to be discussed and analysed, while your contribution consists of throwing personal attacks on the writer.

Charlie,

Dr. Hoodbhoy's research belongs to the field of Nuclear Physics whereas the equipment bought was for the use in Pakistan (which of course is supposed to add to the pool of knowledge - within and outside). If the equipement bought is unused then it's a waste of money. Simply put, profligacy!


Ur final comment sounds like the words (sic) of an economist who edited the world famous American Economic Review. He opined after a decade(?) of editing the research papers that none of the papers wud not have been written in the first place coz most of the papers (almost 99% of them are useless in day2day applications - even for theoretical purposes).

I have two questions to ask.

To Pervez Hoodbhoy: I know you are a well reputed researcher in the west. Can you please enlighten me if your reearch work has some application for third world nations like Pakistan? If no, Can you please stop crying as your research is as wasteful to Pakistani resources as this new machine.

And same question goes to HEC and HEJ chief. For last eight years, you have been sitting on top. Show me one technological breakthough that might have affected the life of a common Pakistani with the all money spent on useless research.


Even those auto-mechanics , who find the ways to LPG cylinders in rickshaws, have served the country more than your thousands papers cited several thousand times.

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Re: # 17
Blame those whom you worship (I don't mean the gods and goddesses but the East India Company) for these riots that turned neighbour against neighbour.

If the 20% chose to leave, what do you suggest I do for the remaining 1%? I'm one million miles away from the parliament.

later............

PH if you're reading #23 feel free to quote it in your writings, that is what I believe you deserve and the sooner the government of Pakistan arranges for it, the better it will be for the people, your donkey ride that is....

For the idiot whose redflagging my posts, get a life. In addition to the previous posts, I'd like to add that Pervez Hoodbhoy is a fake and an ignoramus, and in writing this is not concerned with either the country's well being or the state of our education/corruption. He is concerned about his personal axe which he wants to grind and his anti-islam sentiment and his pro-West white worshipping attitude. The fool should he put on an ass, horse whipped, taken through Lahore town on a donkey as kids whip his a$$ with slippers. Tahmed, hamid and PH, all three hands tied on the back of a donkey, paraded and jeered through Lahore town....that is what they deserve...

Another hallmark of these devils is the supplying of both sides and then fueling the conflict, a great way of building demand for the multi shape (zero function) paper weights they sell....Every single dollar spent on these is a dollar less spent on the people, and more needless deaths and a weaker nation state year after year.........

Pakistan's Order Lifts F-16 plant

By Charles R. Babcock and Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 26, 2005; Page D12

The Bush administration's decision to sell F-16 fighter planes to Pakistan is likely to be as warmly greeted in Fort Worth as it is in Karachi.

That's because Lockheed Martin Corp. has said it needs new orders for the jet before this fall, or it will have to take action to close the production line there that employs about 5,000 workers.

Dwindling F-16 orders made Lockheed's Fort Worth plant payroll decline to 5,000 early this year. (Michael Ainsworth -- Dallas Morning News)

Lockheed spokesman Tom Jurkowsky said the company "has not been officially notified by the U.S. government of any agreement" with Pakistan.

Bethesda-based Lockheed, the nation's largest defense contractor, has produced more than 4,000 of the versatile F-16s since the late 1970s, nearly half of them for customers overseas. The Fort Worth plant delivered its last F-16 to the U.S. Air Force last month, Jurkowsky said, but is still building planes for the governments of Israel, Chile, Poland and the United Arab Emirates.

Lockheed and other global defense manufacturers depend on sales of sophisticated military weaponry to boost their bottom line. The company has sold F-16s to 24 countries and makes them overseas, too, in Europe, Turkey and Korea.

The Fort Worth plant had about 5,800 workers in January 2004. By this January, it was down to about 5,000, and it was scheduled to be down to 4,000 by next January, according to Jurkowsky.

It takes about three years to build an F-16, he added, noting the company has back orders for about 200 aircraft. "Right now the last one would come off the line in 2008," he said.

Richard Aboulafia, an aircraft analyst with the Teal Group in Fairfax, called the sale of two dozen fighter planes to Pakistan "a happy juxtaposition of the wants and needs" of an ally in the war on terrorism and Lockheed's troubled F-16 line. The bigger issue for Lockheed, he said, is the chance to sell another 100 or more F-16s to India, Pakistan's rival in the Asian subcontinent.

India, which uses some Soviet-era aircraft, has said it is in the market for new fighter planes. The imminent sale to Pakistan may cause the Indian government to consider the American plane.

Aboulafia recalled that Lockheed's production of the popular plane was "saved" in 1992 when the administration of President George H.W. Bush announced the sale of 150 F-16s to Taiwan.

The cost of the plane is determined by many variables, including how many are purchased and how they are equipped, Jurkowsky said. Aboulafia estimated that an F-16 "with a full tank of gas" costs between $30 million and $40 million, with upgrades, spare parts and other equipment adding 150 percent more to the price tag.

Despite the concerns Indian officials expressed yesterday about news of the sale to Pakistan, the analyst said the prospect of both countries buying F-16s is a positive. "Two countries that have F-16s have never fought a war."

Staff researcher Richard Drezen contributed to this report.

in #19 read "who dumb their useless, outdated, bogus industrial surplus." as

who dump their useless, outdated, bogus industrial surplus

There are a million ways of legitimizing theft by the peons of the West when they get crumbs from their masters who dumb their useless, outdated, bogus industrial surplus that will do not even perform the function it was originally designed to perform, like those F-16s, the second hand ones with no air defense penetration capability and big (radar)signatures on them saying destroy us before we get a chance to fly- costing at the bare minimum $40 million a piece- you can bet your assets that the generals who approve such contracts are on the payroll of Lockheed Martin as they suck the blood of the Pakistani people. When I was teaching at the govt university the dept head had formed a great lucrative partnership with an HEC professor in order to get research grants in the millions after writing two page research proposals in bad english. Then he was dumping 4 classes on me of 60 students each, everyday and paying me Rs 25000 a month/ $390 a month, all included (after his initial offer of Rs 10,000 a month/month, $158, as salary while fleecing the people of millions- this is how they destroy this nation, and the money flows out to their white masters for such useless equipment and research that has not changed one life.

tahir,

The seizing of assets is part of teh paki culture and is resorted to even by the govt. here is a news item, a man accused of some crime, and the paki legal system has ordered the seizing of his assets. A nation for which gaznavi is the hero, one cannot expect anything different.

As a pakistani, hold your head in shame for the legal system

from dawn of today

Court orders confiscation of Mehsud’s property



By Mudassir Raja


RAWALPINDI, April 21: An accountability court on Monday ordered confiscation of movable and immovable property of Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud and his four associates allegedly involved in the assassination of PPP chairperson Benazir Bhutto after formally declaring them proclaimed offenders.

Re: # 10
tahir,

the land left behind by the hindus during the ethnic cleansing of 1947 became the source of corruption in pak society.

Do not forget that what is pakistan today had 20 percent hindus and now less than one percent.

Put that as part of your education.

I would like to suggest that the HEC should take out the Pelletron accelerator from the QAU and perhaps somehow get it reinstalled at the accommodations (or perhaps resorts) of Dr. Samar Mubarakmand and of Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad -- the self-styled “nuclear heroes� of Pakistan.

The 400 millions of tax-payer money should then be refunded forcefully from the (perhaps secret) accounts etc of these “nuclear heroes�.

The name of other well-known “hero� is not mentioned here as he seems to have (unluckily) avoided making money this time from the “Pelletron business�.

Of course, he has other important concerns and “businesses� to look after, for example, exporting certain materials and equipment to “friendly Muslim countries� and taking care of hotels etc.

Also, Dr Samar Mubarakmand should be asked why he has appointed his son at relatively much younger age to become the “Director General� of one of the divisions of the National Defense Complex (NDC).

Can he take a little time to defend his son’s appointment to that position from any justifiable ground? I remain much keen to listen to that.

Can someone point out the real beneficiaries of this Pelletron accelerator deal who are sitting at HEC, NESCOM, and PAEC?

I would like to suggest that the HEC should take out the Pelletron accelerator from the QAU and get it reinstalled at the accommodations (or perhaps resorts) of Dr. Samar Mubarakmand and of Dr. Ishfaq Ahmad -- the self-styled “nuclear heroes� of Pakistan. The 400 millions of tax-payer money should then be refunded forcefully from the (perhaps secret) accounts of these “nuclear heroes�.

The name of other well-known “hero� is not mentioned here as he seems to have (unluckily) avoided making money this time from the “Pelletron business�. Of course, he has other important concerns and “businesses� to look after, for example, exporting certain materials and equipment to “friendly Muslim countries� and taking care of hotels etc.

Also, Dr Samar Mubarakmand should be asked why he has appointed his son at relatively much younger age to become the “Director General� of one of the divisions of the National Defense Complex (NDC). Can he defend his son’s appointment to that post apart from justifiable grounds?

Ops, Hoodbouy did it again!!!!

It is a fact that Dr. Ata ur Rehman contribution to Pakistan is almost same as Abdul Qadeer Khan – ‘highly over-rated’ and manufactured. Here(s) a man who runs HIJ inside Karachi University – yet is in-charge of a higher education commission? On what merits? Publishing research papers? Or personal reputation with Mushraff?

Ops, Hoodbouy did it again!!!!

It is a fact that Dr. Ata ur Rehman contribution to Pakistan is almost same as Abdul Qadeer Khan – ‘highly over-rated’ and manufactured. Here(s) a man who runs HIJ inside Karachi University – yet is in-charge of a higher education commission? On what merits? Publishing research papers? Or personal reputation with Mushraff?

Re: # 11

tahiri saab, these people are no good saab. they say bad about Pakistan saab

they are even worse than Baangladaishies saab

Re: # 7
"Essentially there is no hope for pakistan"

Listen Bobe Hopeless, look inwards. We Pakistanis (settled HERE) do it all the time.

Go back to India. If you're already there, then leave to come back. Good exercise...

Re: # 6
"The land owned by the hindus came as a windfall for the govt and corruption got engrained in the pak society."

As if the Muslims neither ruled over India nor owned land in the centuries they spent there!

Thanks for making us rich. Spiritually and emotionally, you'll remain poor--forever I think.

Re: # 3
Urchin,
Work for the poor of India, leave Pakistan to the Pakistanis. I will fondly think of you the next time I visit the zoo--promise.

Re: # 2
"One can see that on chowk, the abuse especially in urdu is teh norm of the elite and the educated of pakistan, read the posts of tahmed, zeemak, tahir etc."

First I must thank you for acknowledging that I'm one of the educated.

And damn you for lying. Include yourself at the top of the garbage heap Jay Pee! In case you were too busy abusing Islam and Prophet Muhammad, I was occupied with a more important job: of asking the likes of you to desist from provoking Muslims.

Quote where I abused you. If others have a complaint, let them produce the proof and ask CHOWK editors as well. Who are you? Are you their collective bargaining agent?

I'm a writer not a pathetic interactor locked away in a grey room with a virus-ridden computer and a lice-infested dog.

Go work for India instead of making your unwelcome presence felt here.

Pervez Hoodbhoy knows better, he can read and make his own assessments. Nobody here will be swayed by your remarks, unless you include demented ex-pats with low self-esteem amongst your customers.

Japy Pee, CHOWK does have all your silly posts on record. Want me to enlighten the readers now?

Apologise or head for the Himalayas for yatra--better yet, do both.

Foundations of corruption.

The notion of corruption is always with respect to a norm, and that norm is socially conditioned.

Giving some favours and help to the relatives is the very foundation of family life style in asia, but that could be termed nepotism. here the norm is that one will act professionally and there are guidelines when say a contract is awarded. These guidelines again can be manipulated to meet the socila value of helping the relatives.

Further corruption is not major issue if there is improving education and opportunities. In the case of pakistan, there is no improvement, there is a collapse of law and order and corruption becomes a major issue.

Essentially there is no hope for pakistan, now after the army, it is teh turn of the PPP and nawaz to make the billions and vamoose abroad, and the cycle will contonue.

Re: # 4

madani saab,

Corruption is a little more complicated than that. In pakistan the govt corruption started with the giving of land left behind by the hindus following ethnic cleansing. This became the first task of the govt and the land was given as a means for securing the favours and corruption was institutionalised.

Even today govt allocates land to the military men, just for joining the military, on top of salary and everything.

Further, in india there is not much of any govt land, because the land ownership and documentation is very old, same as in pakistan. The land owned by the hindus came as a windfall for the govt and corruption got engrained in the pak society.

Re: # 3 Arjun you take this political professor too seriously. How a professor finds all this time to write political stuff ?
Now he says day of Musharaff are numbered. How long we are hearing that ?
Too much political things in nuclear things and they keep great scientist dr Khan in house prison. And this professor just big mouth and rewarded and Dr. Khan maligned as common corroupt as Mr.Z.
With this professor and such teachers its hard lean even in 1st grade.

Re: # 1
Jayp..... You want to say Indians are not corroupt people ?
Pakistanis are as much corroupt as Indians no less no more. Though racially indian and pakistanis are different due to color and sharp features and intellience there are some social characters overcome boundaries.
Pakistani men most similar to western european men by DNA stuff they are white but not honest as whites( north europe) as local air water and food.The most important factoe is temprature as heat makes nay body sad and depressed. Here temp in shade can be boiling.
It is classic example of evolution one european mixed race of aryans and other of India dominated by tamil religion and dark colored race but harsh climate makes them all same degree corroupt , that is called evolution of races.

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Pervez,

In a country where the plunderers and robers like gaznavi and ghouri are the heros, there can be no hope for pakistan, they are the role models that shape the thinking of the young in pakistan.

As an educator, you have to focus on teh fundamental value premise of the pak society, the plundering is only a symptom of the pak values.

One can see that on chowk, the abuse especially in urdu is teh norm of the elite and the educated of pakistan, read the posts of tahmed, zeemak, tahir etc.

The good prof is worried about 400 million wasted. At least there is some equipment to show for, some worthless research papers to read. How about the billions written off as bad loans under unstructions from the govt. Is there any accountability for that. The last write off was 125 billion, prof saab, read again, it is 125 billion.

From jang of today


"According to press reports, the Supreme Court has taken serious notice of the fact as to how banks wrote off a staggering amount of Rs125 billion as "bad debts" during the 2000-2006 period, against Rs30 billion written off during 1985-1999. It is reported that larger number of loans have been written off under Circular No 29/2002, issued by the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP), of which major beneficiaries are politicians and industrialists. The criminal culpability of successive governments in this matter has tarnished the image of Pakistan in the eyes of global community as a haven for the corrupt, plunderers and tax evaders.