The Power of Faith

" No teacher, or parent for that matter, has ever taken the time to explain it to his or her ward what the Kalima stands for. "

Thankfully for the god-believers, no teacher or parent is even attempting to explain anything. If they did, they surely will discover a truth, entirely different from what they were trying to 'prove'. Religions themselves do not try to explain anything - not without reason.

What we need really, is anger-management courses alongwith moral science classes for the brain-washable age-group. God-believing is a medieval 'art of living' that lasted some 4000 years, and is rapidly dying out - rightly so.

Re: # 1
Dear Parthaab (Singh?),

If you're an athiest, please try praying to the One who has created you, and will eventually take you to task for your blasphemies!

Good effort here Mr. Nadeem.

Akram, your surname appears in 96:3 of the Holy Qur'an, the very first revelations. I cannot address you as AKRAM as it means 'the Most Bountiful One'. I'm sure you'll understand me.

Age forty is again that point-of-no-return age mentioned in the Qur'an by which any man should be able to figure out things.

46:15
NOW [among the best of the deeds which] We have enjoined upon man is goodness towards his parents. In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth; and her bearing him and his utter dependence on her took thirty months. And so, when he attains to full maturity and reaches forty years, he [that is righteous] prays: "O my Sustainer! Inspire me so that I may forever be grateful for those blessings of Thine with which Thou hast graced me and my parents, and that I may do what is right [in a manner] that will meet with Thy goodly acceptance; and grant me righteousness in my offspring [as well]. Verily, unto Thee have I turned in repentance: for, verily, I am of those who have surrendered themselves unto Thee!"
--(The Message of the Qur;an: Muhammad Asad)

Old bones are not wanted for the important job. Retired men, who've abused Islam or never attempted to understand it, suddenly find all the time in the world to spend in the mosques. What's the use then?

But look at what Rashad Khalifa's translation says ("anyone who dies before this age goes to Heaven."): http://www.angelfire.com/az2/submission/age40.html

All the athiestic interacters on CHOWK (and the editors) need to realise things; the sooner the better.

Show us that proud Muslim face that only prostrates before Allah, and gladly challenges the agents of Iblees boldly without asking for a reward.

Bless you.

Re: # 3 Sie deutsches lapdog Bumsen weg von Ihnen arisches

Re: # 3 Pourquoi devons-nous ce Tahir stupide sweinhund lire ? Il écrit s'il vous plaît à la sélection inutile qui dort avec ses propres Mamma et SIS ! quel baiseur idiot de mère il est

Re: # 3 tahir chutiya murtid munafiq camel for the arbis

Dear Mr. Akram

Did the mother Wolf or Giraffe have a religion? What about your ancestors that is if you believe in the theory of evolution?

Why should evolved human beings continue to be slaves to superstitions?

Arifbhai,

(Why should evolved human beings continue to be slaves to superstitions? )

As you have wisely observed, giraffes and wolves have no religion. But as mammals evolved into humans they developed the need for God and religion.

Regards

Perish in your rage atheists, and take a 100 atheists each with you as you burn to ashes...

Tahir sahib,

I guess you are convinced that all atheists are evil people and agents of the Devil, no?

Regards

tahir krochen Sie, das Ihre Mutter bumste, yo Sohn Ihrer Schwester, Rückkehr zum Kiesel Sie heraus von
tahir krochen Sie, das Ihre Mutter bumste, yo Sohn Ihrer Schwester, Rückkehr zum Kiesel Sie heraus von Ihnen und Ihr frommes fervour saugen und sind schlechter als die Dirne, die Sie Ihre Schwester anrufen

Akram:

It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadithys and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years.

Tell me why is this addiction? and how many little Islamic paradises have been created on earth by worshipping an absentee Allah? Religion is very important to most but not so much!!

Kamath

"So where do we start? By renewing our vows. "

Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......

"We must first try to develop a clear understanding as to what is meant by: “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad"


So, you are clear now??

"Thirty years later, I am just beginning to understand why she called upon her Creator for health, even though the best doctor in town has prescribed her the medicine."

So you want all doctors to speak mumbo jumbo before they adminsiter medicine?

"Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam. ....Today, millions of people like myself are wondering what to do? We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim."

So, the solution to the problem of corruption is more Islam.....fantastic !!!

"Being a Muslim means more than just offering prayers; it means emulating the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and conforming to the dictates of the Holy Quran, not in part or what suits us, but in its totality. And unless we understand the meaning of the Kalima, we don’t stand a chance of redeeming ourselves in this world or the world hereafter."

So, once Shariah is imlemented in toto and all momeens become clones of Prophet all the Pakitan's problem will be solved?

I second the proposal- all Pakis must live under shariah that is strictly implemented.!!
Allahu!!!

Akram: I said in my earler post, I said,"....It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadithys and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years.,.....

I meant to say,".......It is one great tragedy that most Muslims are brought upon the belief that there is NOTHING else in the world to know or learn from - other than Quran, Hadiths and Prophet Mohammad. This has been going on for the past 1400 years....". Sorry for the oversight.
Kamath

Not really read, so may be out of context.
"
We lack faith, are devoid of the basic understanding of our religion and are millions of miles away from being a Muslim.
"

What, when you reached the destination? If I were you when I arrive, I would see whole universe one ... there is no I or you. Observer is same as what is being observed. There is no judgment, no complain, guilt, desire or anguish. In the beginning I might start to fake it till I get it. So, Don't Worry be Happy!

When we drop the book, we might be able to surrender better. Also on this journey it's good to travel lite. The book is unnecessary baggage.

Re: # 13
Laddu...
Hey bhagwan.....for solving every problem you want more Islam......

Ans: A nice Joke...
After consecutive five gold medals at teh Olympic event of rowing, USA team lost to Japan. US sports think tank started analysing the problem and thought of re-organising the team. In stead of 2 manager 8 workers, they have appointed 4 managers and 6 rower. Next time USA lost again. And after further analysis, they had changed the team composition to 6 managers and 4 rowers.Meanwhile Japan maintained a team of 10 workers...and the final outcome you can guess....

"Being a Muslim means more than just offering prayers; it means emulating the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and conforming to the dictates of the Holy Quran, not in part or what suits us, but in its totality. And unless we understand the meaning of the Kalima, we don’t stand a chance of redeeming ourselves in this world or the world hereafter."

Nadeem, that is a very good point from an educated pakistani. So teh conclusion is that pakistan needs more religious education, welcome to more madrassas.

It is the so called educated people like you are the problem of pakistan, and it is people like you who support the hoodood and blasphemey laws in the name of religion and it is people like you who fund the madrassas.

Pathetic.

Haha ... Nadeem Saheb, the following iLog entry refers:

zeemax :Post of the month (Year?):

Posted: Apr 29, 2008

Post by sgb

@ laddu

dear laddu i am a simple and a common muslim girl

not a religious scholar

what i felt

i wrote it

but i am astonished

that u r trying very hard to prove me wrong

iam not asking u to change ur religion

Latest comments:

Posted by sgb on Wednesday April 30, 2008

what is this mr zeemax

any special reason behind it

dont try to "USE" my words


Posted by zeemax on Thursday May 1, 2008

sgb,

I was just admiring the simple and beautiful logic of your words. But actually they KNOW we're not trying to convert them. THEY're trying to convert US.

Re: # 10
I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness. It is once again becoming fashionable. Believe in THE Creator, not what He created please.

Please!

PS: please...please...!
More PS: please...please....please...!

Tahir sahib,

(I was convinced when I saw that God abhors this wicked Godlessness.)

Is there a possibility that God may disagree with you? Or do you believe in a God who agrees with you on (most) things?

Regards

Re: # 19

Tahir what the fuck are you talking about?

Leave me out of this.

Re: # 20
As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.
But if were to listen to the voice of the devil (see # 21), I'd be spiritually marooned.

Re: # 22

Did you not hear me the first time?

Donot call upon our wrath boy.

Your Lord

Tahir,

(As His creation, I must agree with Him; no ifs or buts here.)

Certainly. But has He told you that he abhors atheists or is that your own conclusion? If first fine, but if it is the second and you are trying to impose your own views on God, then He may have something to tell you, no?

Regards

Re: # 22
Tahir says "I'd be spiritually marooned."

AS IF! LOL!!

Dear Nadeem,

Start was excellent... Explains the beauty of Nature...

But how come Maulvi and Kalima came into discussion...

If you like the basic natural instint of motherly love among animals, I think it is more appropriate to praise laws of nature... And Laws of Nature are genetic, particle physics, psychology etc...

When humans didn't understand these laws, they started worshipping them... Accepting the fact that these phenomenon were stronger than human capabilities... They used to worship snakes, monkeys.. And then mooons and stars... At the end, they decided to worship only one imaginary thing : God that controls all the phenomena of nature stronger than them... Hence, God became one single entity representging all those natural laws that were not yet uncovered by human beings...

Now Let's say, God is the one driving all laws of nature... (which is a useless assumption.. if you want to worship the most powerful things, start worshipping nature directly, instead of inventing an new entity behind nature.) So let's say God drives all natural laws, Then true books of God representing laws of nature are written by Einstein, Newton and Abdus Salam. Quran and Bible are outdated books... Gita was outdated even 2000 years back... Instead of teaching our children the meanings of Kalima, Surah or anything similar, we should be more interested in teaching them relativity, evolution and weak nuclear forces which are true representation of the laws of nature..

At # 3 posted by Tahir—“Show us that proud Muslim face that only prostrates before Allah …..,”.
As a retired person, I have time on my hand but do not spend my time in mosques, the embodiment of the institution of ‘mother church’ and the abode of its operatives the ‘clergy’. But I enjoy the company of young inquiring minds who can ask the above quoted question and invite to tease out some more questions.
This word ‘Allah’ is Arabic because the person (Muhammad) who was inspired to compile the Quran, was born in Arabia and was himself an Arab, hence Arabic "Allah"
If we are talking of ‘prostrating’, that is obeying the ONE Universal Creator’s natural and societal laws for all, should not Allah’s name be that which is understood by all English speaking people? Should that not be GOD? By insisting on using Allah, does not that make HIM a specific ‘desert deity’ and of the Arabs only?
Does not the Quran say that there were many Messengers in all nations before Muhammad, some named therein and some not? Did they all speak Arabic? Does not this insistence on Arabic word go against the grain of the teaching of the universal ‘brotherhood” of humanity, which is the bedrock of Towheed- oneness?
With reference to the article itself, here are a few issues. But first I append here what I witnessed in animal nature some time ago:
There was a pile of garden clippings, couple of weeks old, which we set on fire. Just as the pile was torched we noticed a lizard dash out, run a few steps and turn back into the fiery pile. This it did number of times, not to come out finally as the pile was well and truly lit, before it could be put out to investigate the cause of this behavior. It came to pass that there were a few baby lizards and the mother-lizard along with them was now perished!And so?
“And when logic, reason and vision fail us, we blame it all on fate”, says a quote from the article.
That was the fate (Qadar) of the animal Lizard in nature’s laws, its instinct. However Human being is endowed with thinking capacity and is therefore expected to assess the situation for every “action” it takes, logically and thoughtfully. Spirituality in short, does not depend only on the belief in what kismat (luck) dishes out but also the rationality of ‘righteous deeds’, actions that produce good reactions.
One more issue,“….Do they know what it means by “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is His messenger…..” a further quote. Generally speaking one would say ‘NO’.
Nadeem Mian ( I mean it endearingly)—No where in Quran the two parts of the kalima (declaration of oneness of God) appear all together in one sentence. That is to say, the uniqueness of God and that Muhammad is His Messenger on the one line. It is easy to see why. The FIRST PART is the ‘article of faith’ of all major faiths. Its manifestations might vary from church to church! This belief therefore puts Humanity on par.
But the second part of kalima belongs to just one community(Ummah) of people who call themselves Muslims, with various factions thrown therein for good business. Quran dubs factions as akin to committing shirk.
The second part, stands alone where ever it appears in the Book (see 3-144,33-40,48-29). If it was essential for the declaration of universal faith, then all previous messengers would have declared and ordained it so to their followers. But that is not so. Yet Quran says to its addressee Messenger that they were ‘not told any different to what you are told’, and that God does ‘not differentiate between prophets’. Therefore by us combining the two parts in the article of faith , contrary to Quran, the very essence of the oneness of God, exaltedness of all messengers, and brotherhood of mankind, is NEGATED, even if a Messenger is raised to a higher level close to God. It dilutes HIS pristine ness and introduces a PERSONALITY CULT in the faith. That then becomes a ‘religion’ and Islam is not one – it is not Mohammedanism. Muslims have created this ‘world view” by their own actions, similar to say, Christianity with Christ the man as the focus. The meaning of towheed is obvious—no person is above another and all mankind is equal and worthy of dignity. The first part frees mankind from all kinds of gulaami-that is slavery.
In the words of a poet Azhar:
Mai Khudaa toe nah thaa aey kalima-go ---jo oos sey tuney milaa diyaa mujh ko.
(I was not god Oh proclaimer of Kalima—--that you put me on par with HIM).
Belief in Muhammad as a messenger being a human being and the seal of messenger is necessary if we are to believe that God in HIS wisdom has completed the Code and that mankind as a whole has matured enough now and is on its way to attain the status of ‘humanity’ (Alas not there yet in practice, thanks to religious dogmas!) and should stand on its own intellectual feet from here on, and no props are available from the ONE Universal Creator, call HIM Allah, Khudaa, Rab, God, Parabhu, Got, Mungu and what ever other names one chooses to give HIM. But that does not mean that those who whish to excercise their freedom not to believe in the second part, yet commit no shirk and act ‘righteously’ for the benefit of mankind will be left out in the cold (eg see 2-62, 5-69 etc).
This thought process by no means diminishes the exalted position of Messenger Mohammad. On the contrary it enhances his achievements in that he achieved them despite being a mere human being (Bashar). Had he fulfilled his mission with irrational ‘miraculous’ help with winged angles at his side, it would not have been a big deal! (Did the apple really fall on Newton’s head? If yes, then what fell on Einstein’s head?).
“Each one of us today has developed our own version of Islam” you say. I would add also ‘and our own version of religions (30-32)’. This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult and are the largest employer of ‘the blind following blind’s’ dogma. What is more, its operatives the clergy depend on the “business of divisiveness”!
“Deen-e-Mullah fee sabillillah fasad”. Remember, the poor Mullah embraces all Clergy.Sorry folks I took my time!
Rashid

"The majority of Muslim children growing up in Pakistan have rudimentary knowledge of their faith" (author)

Still not enough madrassas in Pakistan for you sir -- so much faith-based murder and mayhem with the "rudimentary" knowledge of the faith -- just imagine what would have happened to Pakistan naoozobillah -- if the Murdoodis and the Fazoloos had the "full" knowledge of the faith -- something to think about!

Re: # 16
Too many chiefs but not enough Indians

nadeem,

the real land of milk and honey per the islamic system is happening in nwfp. You should move there.

This is also in line with pak military doctrine of strategic depth. They wanted taliban in afghanistan for the sake of strategic depth, now they have agreed to create a taliban country in NWFP and the pak military has withdrawn from there, the final escape place when the indian troops move in.

But the history will repeat itself, the afghan taliban were bombed out and moved to NWFP, they will be bombed out and will move to interior pakistan. wait for that to happen.

Dear Friends,

We cannot convince each other on meta-physical issues relating to religion which are I guess beyond the 'human intellectual machinery' i.e. the 'scientific method' cannot be applied to them. The age old effort to find the proof of the existence of God is one example. Even if you make a convincing argument (Has Richard Dawkins made one?), I bet people wont change their beliefs..

However, I strongly advise everyone to know about different view points regarding religious doctrines etc and compare ... just for the fun of it!!!

For a start, I suggest you guys go through 'Why I am not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq.... if anyone of you has done that please share your views.It is not available in Paki-land but if you google it, you can find it a free online version... I also suggest reading Ghamdi... very interesting stuff!

Again, dont read for conversion to a view point.... read for comparison of view points......This is harder to do!

Warm Regards


T Khan
Sydney

Re: # 27- Rashid:

You are a bad Muslim who corrupts young Muslims.You should be banned from Muslim Ummah. What do you say?

Kamath

Re: # 27

Rashid Sahib

Incisive, intelligent, brave and worth reading again and again.

Re: # 24
Mr. Maj,
If He likes obedient beleivers and the do-gooders, it means He dislikes the arrogant and the disobedient.

You'll have to read the relevant verses of the Qur'an to see Satan's attitude and how this force was declared 'outcast', 'reject'.

Do read the Book if you have time; better yet, find some time.

Regards.

Re: # 27
Mr. Rashid,

You made some fine points but by stating "This is what has happened with all RELIGIONS. Religions are based on personality cult..." you missed something essential.

SECTS are based on personalities, not religion. Hence when Orientalists use the term 'Muhammedan' for Muslims, they imply as if the Prophet invented it all! This is wrong.

Every community needed to heed to what was revealed to it according to the social, moral or economic conditions of its time. That the Qur'an is the final message means that we now know practically everything about past cultures and their decadent life-styles. We need to identify the traps set by Satan for mankind and stay on the 'path of safety' in all matters.

I wish you peace.

Re: # 31
"I suggest you guys go through 'Why I am not a Muslim" by Ibn Warraq.... if anyone of you has done that please share your views. It is not available in Paki-land"

The advantage of living in Kangaroo-land is that you can read such trash and recommend it to others! I'm glad you're out of harm's way over there. Do you really know this rat? read on:

"Ibn Warraq was born into a Muslim family and grew up in a country that now describes itself as an Islamic republic. His earliest memories are of his circumcision and first day at Quran school, and his family still consider themselves Muslims. He, however, now considers himself a secular humanist who believes that: `all religions are sick men's dreams, false - demonstrably false - and pernicious'.

For Ibn Warraq support for Rushdie has to be seen as part of a larger war against the rise of `fundamentalist` Islam: For those who regret not being alive in the 1930s to be able to show their commitment to a cause, there is, first, the Rushdie affair, and, second, the war that is taking place in Algeria, the Sudan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, a war whose principal victims are Muslims, Muslim women, Muslim intellectuals, writers, ordinary decent people. This book is part of my war effort.

These facts and arguments concern the wholly human origin of the Quran.

Finally, we should note two further important points made by Ibn Warraq. First, that Islam never really encouraged science, if by science we mean `disinterested enquiry'. What Islam always meant by ' knowledge' was religious knowledge, anything else was deemed dangerous to the faith."

Good-bye Mr. Cahn (or is it Khan?)

Mr. Cahn/Khan (and others who are misled),

Do read this too:
http://www.city-net.com/~alimhaq/text/warraq.htm

#37 Posted by tahir,

Wow! This is what I've been saying all along. Great link.

What this means in this context is that we cannot even accurately discuss Islamic views on topics such as gender relations or warfare without also, at the same time, discussing Islamic views on economics, social justice, sexuality, political relations, etc. In Islam, the whole illustrates the parts, and the parts, in turn, illustrate the whole. Any discussion of particular ayats that may appear to countenance aggressive violence or sexism must also, at the same time, refer to other seemingly unrelated topics. In Islam, many topics that may seem unrelated to some people are in fact related and shed light on each other and cannot be discussed apart from each other.

Tahir,

Thanks for providing that excellent link. It again proves my point: you cant analyse religion by Scientific method. but if you cannot analyse religions in simple ways.... does that mean that everyone need to have the intellectual capacity of a philosopher to understand Islam?

Regarding your comment on Kangaroo Land, it is only in Western countries where you can get access to all information irrespective of ideology. Will a Muslim country like PAkistan allow such free flow of information?


Labelling people as 'misled' again proves my point. People like you avoid looking at alternative views....Looking at alternative views is not being misled...it means expansion of intellectual horizons/maturity... In my post I did not say that I am antimuslim or Kafir... I am just looking at various view points (you have helped me in that by giving that link!) .......... calling me names i.e Cahn is typical ad hominem.

Regards

T Khan

#39 Posted by TaureanKhan,

That article is written by a Jeremiah D. McAuliffe, Jr., Ph.D. Obviously a Convert.

My point is, Muslim Converts are the staunchest Muslims of all because they do not have the 'rudimentary knowledge of their faith' as correctly termed by Nadeem Akram here. Instead, they study it as a 'system' carefully and only then decide.

This is the reason that Muslim converts from other religions, without any missionary influence, are beyond comparison Vis a Vis their numbers than between any other ones combined.

Re: # 38:
"
What this means in this context is that we cannot even accurately discuss Islamic views on topics such as gender relations or warfare without also, at the same time, discussing Islamic views on economics, social justice, sexuality, political relations, etc. In Islam, the whole illustrates the parts, and the parts, in turn, illustrate the whole. Any discussion of particular ayats that may appear to countenance aggressive violence or sexism must also, at the same time, refer to other seemingly unrelated topics. In Islam, many topics that may seem unrelated to some people are in fact related and shed light on each other and cannot be discussed apart from each other
"

Granted Islam is this giant system which includes the best modules for manufacturing lifted from SAP, financial modules lifted from Oracle Finacials and Human Resources from .. not only that it also has Maya for sexy animations, well integrated Java, Tomcat and C++. But the real problem is the underlying 7th century Bedouin OS. Even the best of the super processor (called prophet) could not load this giant koranic Islam. There were perpetual page faults with this super processor. So they came up with Hadith.

Give me something like ruby which is small, easy to put it in practice by prototyping and does not depend on external resources .. I should not be referring to the Book on the disc to execute every instruction .. everything should be on RAM as today youcan have 16G RAM with 64B processor.

Don't give me organized religion. I will discover my own Dharma if you keep it simple ie All are One, Every Being is inherently seeking Bliss/Goodness/Anand, universal Consciousness pervades and resides in each one of us.

Glanced the article ... felt there is wailing. Author is wailing that there is no enough Islam.

Abrahmic religions make us "sinned ..destined to hell." It saps our self esteem. Then we are easy to give in to the prison/legion hierarchy. For the legion's survival there has to be external enemy all the time. So Islamic folks constantly complain Darul-something. This legion gets its marching orders on Friday Fatwas. Pyramid schemes sell their wares capitalizing on greed of potential converts. Here what is peddled is heaven with wide eyed houris. They will never say you are fine as it is... No need to waste your energy for/on houris ... go out and enjoy a good run. Seems Forrest Gump was a true prophet.

Re: # 36 Tahir:

Do you have the courage to say what you have written in front of Muslims ?

My dear sirs:

I do not think for a second that anyone of the interactors have read the entire article; at best they have glanced at it or at best read the teaser! That is not on. The article is neither about conversion nor about opening up of more madrassahs as has been suggested. The point is that due to ignorance amongst Muslims especially the Pakistani lot who has been educated about Islam through Islamiat 101 and so on, the true spirit of the religion as envisaged by the Holy Prophet got lost somehow in the clutter and noise of the so called Aalim Deens, and an ordinary Muslim living in Pakistan does not know the difference between the true meaning of Shadaat or the true sense of the word jihad. Thanks to the westren media, the word jihad has been distorted to a point where the word itself has lost its meaning. I am no scholar but when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer! This statement does not indemnify the state of affairs that prevails in modern world today and Muslims are not the only culprits so to speak, Jews have done it, Christians have done it and still do it, Hindus did it, Surbajeet Singh is one that comes to my mind.

To all that have gone into a different tangent, I request to read the full article and try to get the jist of it and not take sentences out of the context!

Thanks

Re: # 38
Glad you liked it. What else can a man do?

A simple walking stick is sometimes better than a specially-trained dog to lead the blind.

Regards.

Re: # 39
Thanks for replying with Khanish fervor; I can sense how vexed you must feel sitting far away from your ex-countrymen.

I'm glad that link opened your eyes. Many windows on the web will show you the truth, others will lead you to a spiritual dead-ends.

You said "it is only in Western countries where you can get access to all information irrespective of ideology".

Is this the reason you left Pakistan? I've read many banned books right here and nothing has ever stopped me from doing whatever research I like doing. Calling it Pakiland is offensive. Is that how you represent us there (I'm assuming you're half a Pakistani and a full Australian by now)? And I hope you have no connection with a blasphemous kangaroo that now practises surgery in down-underwear?

The true mirror is the Qur'an if one wants to see what one looks like, and NOT some Ibn Warraqa anti-Islam rambling.

Be strong and upright. If you can't defend yourself, nobody out there will do it for you.

I wish you well (happy?).

Re: # 40
"Muslim Converts are the staunchest Muslims....they study it as a 'system' carefully and only then decide."

And that is why Dr. Muhammad Asad tops my list of Qur'an translators!

One million blind mullahs are nothing compared with such men!

Re: # 46

{One million blind mullahs are nothing compared with such men!}

So speaks almighty Baal.

Re: # 41

You said "Abrahmic religions make us sinned ..destined to hell. It saps our self esteem"

I'm sorry you think this way. The Qur'an does NOT speak of Adam as a sinner who is on earth suffering a jail sentence! He was forgiven when he realised and repented. Now his descendants are supposed to make earth a peaceful and just place according to God's revealed Law. Satanic ideas ruin us and are a source of all of our sorrows. The evil force is the TEST that we must understand and pass!

So simple! Even Plato admitted that the purpose of the soul is to indulge in virtuous activity.

Shaanti.

Re: # 42
Dear Kamath,

You've asked bravely! Yes I do have the courage; I neither hide behind the keyboard nor--like some interactors--behind their mothers' skirts.

You are wrong in assuming that I'm writing this either to please myself or a brain-washed readership. Have you interacted with sick animals? Well, I have, and some of them feel cured or are on their way to better health.

My discussions are not restricted to CHOWK. I speak my mind with Muslims 99% of the time. Many bark, a few bite, some purr in submission and understand.

Success is a relative thing.

Shaanti.

Re: # 43
NADEEMMAKR becomes Nadeem 'makr'. Please change this; it'll make me very happy.

tahir, zee,

If one wants to see the distinguishing features of Islam one will do well to focus on the views and opinions of new converts to Islam (not to sufism).

Some people argue that new converts to any religon are 'extremists' and hence beyond the pale. Well, may be, but new converts to Islam will differ from new converts to, say, Buddhism, and by looking at the differences between these two we can get a fairly intelligent idea of the differences between these and other religions.

Re: # 51
Mr. Eklavya,

"Some people argue that new converts to any religon are 'extremists' and hence beyond the pale."

I think 'those' who say this are themselves extremists! Read Dr. Muhammad Asad to see if his Qur'an translation or the famous autobiography (The road to Mecca) is extremist!

Regards.

Re: # 48: Have you seen Forrest Gump?

Millions of such prophets are alive so this world is truly paradise for many with right outlook. Read 40-50 condensed book of selected verses from Kuran first being Kalima for seven days with old Indian Muslims in US after 9/11. Frank those 40 pages might be good as manual but very mundane for some one who studied (might not have understood that well) Vedanta under the guidance of Swami Chinmayananda and different swamis of Ramkrishna Mission. More frankly and even according to these swamis all these scriptural reading is not necessary, if one tries to keep purity of childhood intact through out your adult life ..then you are that super consciousness. No need to visit temples and mosques. No need to read books in alien languages or join some desert land legions. If I do not find god within my body, parents, children, wife, neighborhood and country, then I will not find any where else. Dharmik understanding makes me see God/myself in the poorest of the poor, the maid, the driver and the janitor.

Abramhmic religion makes god alien, separate from us. It destroys our culture. Asks us to disown our ancestors, our language our saints and even our leaders. Not only that it asks us to disown our names.

Re: # 43:
"
Hindus did it, Surbajeet Singh is one that comes to my mind.
"
From May 78 till Dec. 2007 on an average 40 Indians were killed by Baki IEDs, AK47, jihadis and infiltrators. Surabjeet must be innocent. But Indians should have made Baki pay in 84 or 87 itself. Gen. Sundarji should have done it so that innocents would not suffer. Geeta teaches this and India should make Geeta compulsory reading for every citizen so that this world can be paradise. Meek is as much responsible as the aggressor. No response is true violence because it violates the Natural Law.

#43 Posted by nadeemakr

"I am no scholar but when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer!"

Your five years old asked this question? I think you are a negligent parent. How could a five year even know abt jihad and killing. Either you are telling him these things or you are letting him watch too much tv.

Shame on you for exposing your young child to the nonsense. You need to fix your household before you come and talk abt improving other people.

The price of having a faith in one of the major religions of the world (Islam being the most expensive one) is substantially greater than any perceived power of the faith. It is utter nonsense to talk about it in terms of reason.

“After having witnessed the cold-blooded murder of Iraqi women and children by trigger-happy Americans.”

Very touching Nadeem Akram Sahib. I wonder if you had mentioned how sickened did you feel to learn about the plight of Muslims of Darfur and their rape and murder at the hands of fellow Muslims, whether it had been published in the paper that it was. Thought provoking, however.

Re: # 39; Taureen sahib,

There are two types of indoctrinations; one by one's parents/society/schooling etc. The second is by oneself, especially after reaching a certain conclusion after being lost for a while. The rest is just constant re-affirmation of the same.

Islam, alongwith other religious traditions, is the same; the convert reaches a certain conclusion in his mind and then he makes a point of excluding all else, especially reason, and every counter-argument seems to 're-affirm' what one has already decided to believe. You'd hear the "faith begins where science ends" here a lot as well!

I'll try to give an example here; one doesn't have an explanation for a lot of things around; two ways the human mind can potentially go. One is to try to explain and look for a reason, often finding one when one looks hard enough. The alternative is 'fate', 'destiny' and 'gods' amongst other 'nice & easy' explanations; they vindicate one from the responsibilty of 'looking'; the famous saying "it is ALL there", etc. Its constant 're-affirmation of the already known'. Some of us would call it "the real jahilia"; others label it as "faith".

Koran (I spell it advisedly), is an old, archaic, plagiarised, and poorly written mythological tell-tale of jewish prophets of old, conveniently adopted to become 'part of the CHOSEN club' by the 'underdogs' of the time; obviously pissed off at the fact that 'their cousins' had this STATUS that appeared EXCLUSIVE; they themselves, on the other hand, had descended from 'Hagar - the slave girl'; that didn't seem fair. The story continues.....ad nauseum, if I might add. Then you'd hear the 'golden era' quoted where jews/muslims/christians lived so happy together, they never wanted to part! even if they tried.

As far as any 'distinction' from other 'faiths' is concerned, there is an important one. We have an "exclusive and chosen status", only in our twisted minds mind you, and the "ghalba" position is the goal. Throughout history we have had conflict after conflict with 'others' until we had that position of authority; it is a patriarchial tradition, where the 'convert' is constantly 'reassured' about his 'exclusive and equal status' that nobody else is prepared to offer him. Then there is a constant reminder of this newfound status if one chose to remain within the fold. There are many who don't but those stories are never told within the 'mainstream'.

Another thing is regarding 'the versions' one hears; apparently as it finally transpires, the Mohammed Asad translation of the Holy Book was the one mankind was waiting for; it seems to have explaianed issues that remained un-explained until then to the non-arabic speaker. I find the whole concept literally 'beyond belief'.

Yes you are right that in the horrible west is where one is 'allowed' as it were to read/analyse/challenge any of these concepts; in the fatherland, we would have long parted with our crania or worse made some other form of 'example' so others might learn from the expereince.

I first went to Pakistan when I was 13; I could speak the language but couldn't read or write Urdu. I learned very quickly though. The most striking thing I noticed, despite being at a 'good' school was the whole attitude towards education. I was used to 'questioning authority' which was taken to be 'rudeness'; I wanted to 'analyse' but was advised to 'rote learn' and pass exams etc rather than worry too much about what everything really 'meant'. Same with religion; one is 'brought up' in a 'certain way' if you will; the rest is one's own 'analysis' later in life which is again constantly to 're-affirm' rather than 'question'. Big difference, I reckon but there are those who'd vehemently disagree.

Has anyone ever wondered why more than 99% of religious adherents are "born within" any faith? the converts overall are a very small community, especially when 'the sword' is taken out of the equation. Why is it that all these 'born-agains' are almost always 'born within' the same traditions? But then again on eis NOT ALLOWED to wonder, is one? Predictable response would be to quote the 'verses from the holy book' that ask mankind to 'think'; but think about what exactly? Again mainly to start with a pre-determined result walking backwards to 're-affirm' what is ALREADY THERE!!

I quoted something a couple of months ago here and I'll see if I can find it again; it is the predictable response one would come across to what I wrote now and before.

Key is to keep looking though; I have said many times now that "the onus of proof is with the believer"; he should tell me there IS SOMETHING to talk about or otherwise shut up about it. No one can "disprove a negative"; If I told you there were fairies at the bottom of the garden, try as you may for eternity, you can't 'disprove' that; or can you?

Re: # 58; Taureen

Here is that quote that I found on the net but details the predictable response one gets from the 'muslim believer' when one 'asks questions' that require some metabolic activity in one's brain cells!

[Dear brothers and sisters in islam:

We live in kuffar country and daily we have to face the infidels who criticize islam and our prophet, and who want to debate us. In an Islamic country if some one did that all we have to do is to announce loudly what he said and the rest is taken care of by an angry mob. The critic is lynched in no time. End of the story. However here we don't have that luxury as yet. Inshallah in forseeble future after we grow by conversions of morons and criminals in prisons, legal and illegal immigration and procreation we will, inshallah, become a majority and will not have to face this problem on daily basis. However, for the time being following is an approach all muslim brothers and sisters can use when faced with such a pest. Jazakallah Khair. Inshallah the vermin will steer clear of you in future.
1. A popular question is "why islam calls for death of Islamic critics and apostates". Insist that their info is false. Quote aya "to you your religion and to me my religion".

2. To answer "Islam spread with sword", say that it is a big lie spread by the jews and hindus and that quran clearly says " there is no compulsion in religion".

3. If some one quotes violent ayas from Koran, accuse him of quoting ayas in bits and pieces and cherry picking .

4. If he then quotes full ayas and ayas before and after, than insist that the translation is wrong.

5. If he brings ten different translations than say correct meanings can be understood only by reading Quran in Arabic.

6. If he happens to be well versed in Arabic language than insist that those ayas don't mean what they appear to mean as they have allegorical meanings.

7. If he is adamant, than say you cannot understand those ayas and it's context without reading hadith and sira.

8.. If he shows up with the hadiths and siras in hand and quotes the context of the violent ayas by referring to hadiths of prophet's rapes, robberies , assassinations and genocides then insist that "all hadiths and siras are heresay and are false, and only truth is in quran.

9. If he says Quran is a man made document and wants proof of it's divinity then refer to the sciences in Quran and the book written by Dr. Bucaile confirming the sciences in our holy book. You can also quote that Mahatama Gandhi read Quran daily and also spoke highly of it.

10. If he says that Bucaile was on Saudi payroll and that nor he nor Gandhi ever changed their religions and that Bucaile was challenged and proven wrong by many experts then challenge him to ask his experts to debate islamists like Zakir Naik..

11. If the pests still hangs around then change the topic and find faults in other religions and their books.

12. If he continues on then use personal attacks and insult him by calling him a jewish a- hole , a Chinese pig or a hindu dog .

13. If that does not frustrate him, then ask him how much he is being paid by jews to throw dirt on Al Islam.

14. If he still does not stop then run for his mother and sister and use very filthy language.

15. If he is very stubborn and wants to continue, then curse him like "Burn in hell, you will repent on last day, Allah will get you in your grave" etc

16. When all of the above has failed, threaten him with bodily harm and end the debate by drum beating and announcing that you won the debate hands down because Koran is the word of allah.

17. If possible anounce about this debate in an islamist website and that you had won it handily. Such announcements do wonders for the iman of muslim website readers and for dawah operations in prisons to convince low IQ prisoners of the truth of Al Islam.]

Re: # 35

[SECTS are based on personalities, not religion. Hence when Orientalists use the term 'Muhammedan' for Muslims, they imply as if the Prophet invented it all! This is wrong.]

I wonder if that means one can be a free-lance monotheist and do good without having to believe in mohammed?

This question, of course, is purely rhetorical...

"
I'm sorry you think this way. The Qur'an does NOT speak of Adam as a sinner who is on earth suffering a jail sentence! He was forgiven when he realised and repented. Now his descendants are supposed to make earth a peaceful and just place according to God's revealed Law. Satanic ideas ruin us and are a source of all of our sorrows. The evil force is the TEST that we must understand and pass!

So simple! Even Plato admitted that the purpose of the soul is to indulge in virtuous activity.
"

Who is this damned Adam? A book which refer to these alien creatures need not be accepted first, esp. from wolf in sheep clothing. India suffered because of wrong understanding of Buddha & Jaina, the strengthening of arm was neglected.

Now what did this creature Adam realized? What is this crap of repenting? Guilt & repenting is a heinous crime one does on himself. He ceases to be a human. It's just a step above Suicidal Consciousness. Truly Pishachya! No wonder such verbiage creates suicidal Jihadis.

If the followers of this legion of yours are true repenters, like this Adam guy, then when they realize there mistakes, for example, of the near past, following need to happen: Instead of crocodile repenting and crying, Bakis will pay in $s for Kargil, pay to BDs esp the Hindus of BDs who suffered the most for the their holocoust (majority of intellectuls brutally murdered on 25th March 71, Dhaka university were Hindus) and compensate for Mumbai blasts of 7/11/2006 and of 92-93. Actions would speak louder! Compensate to Jagdeesh Kumar's family. It's one thing to write eulogies for Nirmala Didi and completely different which needs integrity to do something concrete for Justice. This "wordy" legion is devoid of basic humanity or spirituality. A giant cruel pyramid scheme indeed!

Re: # 53
"Abramhmic religion makes god alien, separate from us. It destroys our culture. Asks us to disown our ancestors, our language our saints and even our leaders. Not only that it asks us to disown our names."

You have a choice Mr.Guru, don't accept Islam! And when you've decided that, please refrain from commenting about its 'destructive' influence on ancester and grave-worship.

It probably destroys you, but it works for all of us!

Shaanti.

Re: # 57
Axeman Q.,
Who sponsors all this conflict and for what purpose? Your chosen spanking-new Motherland of course!

Thought provoking, right?

Return to playing bridge this summer in Lahore.

ATTENTION:

A kangaroo has blasphmed yet again and shown its true animal instinct jumping alone in down-underwear. These are its pearls of ignorance:

"Koran (I spell it advisedly), is an old, archaic, plagiarised, and poorly written mythological tell-tale of jewish prophets of old, conveniently adopted to become 'part of the CHOSEN club' by the 'underdogs' of the time; obviously pissed off at the fact that 'their cousins' had this STATUS that appeared EXCLUSIVE; they themselves, on the other hand, had descended from 'Hagar - the slave girl..."

Kangaroos of the hind-leg jump together. What is worse than the spiritually blind trying to sound like a scholar?

The more proof the animal finds, the greater its aversion to God, its rage and foaming at the mouth when His name and Words are mentioned.

A kangaroo says:

"I wonder if that means one can be a free-lance monotheist and do good without having to believe in mohammed? This question, of course, is purely rhetorical"

The trick is to ask rhetorical questions and confuse those already confused. Damn these door-mats of Greek philosophers!

Look at the filth these animals copy off the web! But they can never harm God's faith and those who believe in Him. They dig their own graves each day.

Re: # 61
"Who is this damned Adam?"

Our common father! And Eve the common mother, my brother...

Shaanti.
PS: hatred weighs you down completely.

Re: # 66: "Our common father! And Eve the common mother, my brother...
"

Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story? Why not local Dhondu & Chameli? May be for Abrahmic legion gandus... what have they given to the world in last 16 centuries (since Roman started using Jesus for their evil design) besides slavery, Ciphilis and destruction of indiginous culture? May be ancestors of Pishchya Yoni!

You do not know word shanti so pl do not use it. It's not hatred but demand for justice and making Bakis aware so they do not remain deluded. There is not much in common with Indians if your culture also becomes Islamic. But then your legion demands that so it's hopeless. What will work is only a big Danda.

It's useless to discuss. Economic progress of India will remove this Abrahmic tumor esp the Islamic one. The day is nearing once oil is replaced as energy source.

#50 Posted by tahir,

NADEEMMAKR becomes Nadeem 'makr'. Please change this; it'll make me very happy.

Haha brilliant. And to think hamidm has been nominated as the wittiest though your name was strongly suggested!

#43 Posted by nadeemakr

... when my five year old asks me why is someone killing a lot of people in the name of jihad, frankly my dearests, I have no answer!

Well, next time your five year old asks you this question, tell him/her 'Jihad' is permitted in Article 47 of the United Nations Charter.

I'm surprised you didn't have that answer even though being an expert as your article suggests!

Zeemax: Never had the pleasure of interacting with you, let us leave it like that!

Tahir Mian: It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that at Yahoo has limitations when it comes to choosing a nick..but then what would you know and btw don't know you and don't care to!!
Ciao

#70 Posted by nadeemakr,

No no wait around a sec. Now tell me:

1) Does Artcle 47 of the UN Charter allow armed resistance against occupation or not.

2) If Jihad is not armed resistance, what is it?

Zeemax, Article 47 of the UN charter doesn't allow for armed resistance against occupation.

Charlie, whilst I am tempted to react to your comments which are quite intelligent, I must refrain from doing so for reasons only known to me!

Although the images of giraffes and wolves are very lovely and all that, they are absolutely no basis to justify the promotion of belief in essentially dangerous nonsensical fantasies, which result in promoting total ignorance, the justification of the capitalist and beneficiary status-quos and illegal governments, the oppressing and mutilating of women, keeping populations totally illiterate, amputations and dismemberment and all that general foolishness which makes religious people so much less than what humans can be, amongst all the other fruits of organised religion.

Indian Civilization produces people like this. Show me one person on the other side of the border like this then and even now to protect Jagdeesh Kumars. That is why we say that these legions are just that "interesting legends."
http://www.rediff.com/freedom/1111migr.htm

Your Edhi does not have guts to come to help Jagdeesh Kumars. It seems more practical is complete swap of population. Pakis should accept not just Kashmiris but all Indian Muslims without asking for additional land. You should be happy that you got more faithfuls. More faithfuls means more power to you.

#72 Posted by CreateAlpha,

Thanks. It is Article 51 not 47. I quoted from memory. Note the bold letters:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Now again I ask Mr. Mukr my original question. What is Jihad anywhere in the world right now if not armed resistance exercising the "... inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against their State?

Of-course he is exempted from answering if he's jumping on hind-legs as Tahir Saheb very aptly put it.

Re: # 67
Dear fake guru,

You say "Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story?"

Okay, keep believing in your own C&B stories then; don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here.

"May be for Abrahmic legion g..dus..."

Is this what your mata-ji taught you? Disrespect for those who try to reason with you? Poor boy guru...

"What have they given to the world in last 16 centuries..."

This shows what little you know of history. Where did Europe get its knowledge if not via translated Arabic texts of lost books?

"It's not hatred but demand for justice and making Bakis aware so they do not remain deluded. There is not much in common with Indians if your culture also becomes Islamic. But then your legion demands that so it's hopeless. What will work is only a big Danda."

Are you from some Hindu extremist group? I'm a moderate Muslim who feels like reporting your attacks to your boss, your mata-ji, and the entire neighbourhood. Guess what, for now I'll forgive your ignorance?

"Economic progress of India will remove this Abrahmic tumor esp the Islamic one. The day is nearing once oil is replaced as energy source."

Keep on dreaming economic elephant. Ants can sometimes kill elephants!

Re: # 68
"Haha brilliant. And to think hamidm has been nominated as the wittiest though your name was strongly suggested!"

Well Mr. Max,

The idea was to correct a fellow Muslim, not ridicule him.

Your liberal comments here could grace my own space elsewhere on this site. Look, even the A.D.L. repeatedly dropped by to interrogate and abuse me! And then there were other life-forms from Down-Underwear who made their presence known....

Success at last as a writer!

Regards.

Re: # 77:
Quickly, "Dear fake guru,

You say "Why some one should believe in this cock & bull story?"

Okay, keep believing in your own C&B stories then; don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here."

Showing your true colors. That is good. Dont bring mothers, bosses etc. I do not have but clients & customers are bosses.

We do not have any story to tell ...not of cocks or of bulls. You tried to tell me. Did I tell you. Did you visit link on Mrudula Sarabhai? People who do not have any thing to show in present or near past bring their fake ancestors from distant desert land. There is nothing to reason. Have you done donated money to Jagdeesh Kumar's family? Instead of your cock and bull stories speak by your actions. Dont give BS that Islam is all compassion, there is no compulsion in the faith etc. dsemographic numbers do not lie.

There is no such thing as moderate Muslim.

"Keep on dreaming economic elephant. Ants can sometimes kill elephants!"

Take all the faithful ants from India. Faith gives power and more faithfuls give more power.

Who is ignorant? I may be ignorant of cock & bull stories.

Re: # 70
"don't know you and don't care to!"

Read #68 first.

Nadeem beta, you have amazing arrogance for a Muslim! Are you really one, or is this all what I referred to?

I have my own theories which when put to test, on this rocket-science site called CHWOK, invariably prove themselves sound.

Do watch this space for more.

Peace.

Re: # 74
And you suggest what? What is your faith Mr. Dead-of-Winter?

Re: # 75
"Your Edhi does not have guts to come to help Jagdeesh Kumars"

I can't possibly interact with you more than twice in a single day; it is forbidden to me.

#80 Posted by tahir,

Wow ... he doesn't even know what was being laughed at in #68. This is quite unbelievable. Limitation of Yahoo? Wow !!!

Ok so now that is established that jihadis are choots..lets talk about this article.

#84 Posted by CreateAlpha,

No. What I have proven is Jihad is sanctioned under UN Charter Article 51, unless anyone can prove otherwise.

... and I have provided an answer for the five year old's father which the hind-legged jumper didn't have for the poor child. He should thank me for that.

Re: # 77: "don't show how poorly educated you are by attacking Islam. Nobody's asleep here."

I did not go to a madarassa. Education means brodening once cosciousness which gets reflected in focus, creativity ie inventions/patents/biz ideas and better understanding of oneself. How does Islam broden ones consciosness? In last 1K years what Mulims have invented?
http://spicyipindia.blogspot.com/2007/07/ancient-india-and-maths.html

http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_school_of_astronomy_and_mathematics

"Wher e did Europe get its knowledge if not via translated Arabic texts of lost books?"

Why now in France they are rioting in ghettoes? Mind also that mid east was not homogeneous Arabic land as it appears today. Coptic Egyptians, Syrians, Kurds, Iraqis and Turks are very different people from Bedouin real Arabs. Whatever they passed to the wester European was stolen from Indians, which was not their creation. It makes sense the trader cannot be inventor or producer.

Pakis had head start in US and UK, but today going by per capita income and education Dharmic people are way ahead of Islamic subcontinental folks. Why? Something to do with Islmic culture? Something to do with the book and the prophet for profit pyramid scheme?

Look in the mirror, before you set out on Jihad!

The writer has written, interacted, and gone home for good (or bad).

C-Alpha, what were you saying about those who know their religion and struggle, being shaped like what you probably (I say, probably) did not emerge from at birth?

Write an article that makes me laugh.

Re: # 87
Return to spinning your dream-wheel with immediate effect. The entire world has stolen from Indians, right? Are you demanding royalties from humanity?

Do you wish to know what the Qur'an says about knowledge which is nobody's slave?

Stop worshipping your brain please.

PS: when will you turn sixteen?

Re: # 86
Look what I said in #3 and see where it wound up?

THIS is the power of somebody else's faith.

Bakis, give one example from your side of the border like this brave lady:
http://www.rediff.com/freedom/1111migr.htm

Re: # 89:
"Return to spinning your dream-wheel with immediate effect. The entire world has stolen from Indians, right? Are you demanding royalties from humanity?"

Eating fukatka royalty malida or becoming rentier state is what you guys do. Indians allowed persecuted Syrian Christians, Jews and Parsis to flourish in India. Islam and British Christianity tried to uproot Indianness from Indian soil. Christianity has turned around. Christian folks try to own their Indiannes. But Mohomedans need to learn a hard lesson. Bakiland will fall to Taliban in one year. Ameriki Bahadur will castricate Bakiland. With the bum/balls gone it will become a Somalia.

tahir aunty, I was saying, that jihadis are choots....and you were unbunching your purty green panties.

#89. this is rich coming from folks who can play "Why us?" and "who did this to us?"...Thanks for playing, we have a lovely parting gift from Suicidebelts-r-us (made for jihadis...by Jihadis) enjoy!!!

Arabs might have translated some Indian knowledge but some might be little dense for them to translate.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070813091457.htm

Tah ir, are you man or woman? If woman, sorry if I uttered any profanities, and do not mean to abuse Islam or its prophet. Ideally I would like Islam also to flourish in India but by becoming Indian, by dropping Arabic languag