Race to the Finish

Anil writes " request to both Zeena and Ana to come back and debate their points. Both are important for Pakistani identity, and I for one would like to learn from both viewpoints"

Anil, the certified ignoramus (and a-hole I must add), who cannot write a decent sentence in English, is always forthcoming with insults and bigotry against Islam and has ruined the entire reputation of Harvard Business School by claiming to be from there (with an email to match), and who thinks at best at the junior high school level wants to get the benefit of "both viewpoints"- give me a break you miserable f'ck

Re: # 696
Ana:

Thanks for sharing your views with me here.

We all display our identity each time we interact or even get out of our cocoon.

“if there is such a thing as an Islamicized Christian, I was that being...”

What is an “Islamicized Christian”?

“Being that I was influenced by all these different faiths, I never considered anyone to be "the enemy".... ...And my upbringing is what shaped me as I am. “

Faiths is interesting way to define, I prefer to call these as belief systems. Faiths / belief systems bring out the differences, moment they are out in the open society. You obviously grew up in multi-religious set up. Contrast is fascinating, Zeena proudly demonstrates it.

“There is our collective identity, and then there is the individual one....”

This is so true. “... And there were times when being part of the collective was challenging. ...” Will you care to share these challenges?

Clifton correctly identified the two view points. I am very certain such two distinct viewpoints exist in India and even here in the U.S. How will you explain, FLDS women also are among us and happily living ever after – an extreme for sure.

anil,

i don't do debates. i also do not like talking to people the way i did with zeena today. i questioned her generalizations, and she began the usual abuse.

I have written many times about what being a Pakistani is to me, and what being a Pakistani woman is, and all the other aspects of my identity, and I am not going to put them on display again. As far as I know, most of my family has not moved from what is now Pakistan in centuries, we are not Muslims, although Muslims have come into our family. We were not always Christian either. I have grown up amongst Muslims, if there is such a thing as an Islamicized Christian, I was that being.

Being that I was influenced by all these different faiths, I never considered anyone to be "the enemy". And one does not have to be influenced by different faiths to be that way. I grew up pampered by Muslim uncles and aunties who felt the same way. And my upbringing is what shaped me as I am. I can only speak for myself. I can't get into a debate about Pakistani identity as a whole. There is our collective identity, and then there is the individual one. And there were times when being part of the collective was challenging.

When Indians ask me if I am Indian or Pakistani and I tell them I am Pakistani, and some of them say, oh same difference, I used to laugh at this. It is not the same. That is what I have been trying to say all along. We have certain things "in common", so we are not "completely different" but we are not the same. Now if certain proud Pakistanis are going to curse at me for this, I really don't give a fcuk. And I am not interested in getting into a debate with someone when there is no chance of any real understanding developing.

Perhaps anil sahib, rather than trying to get viewpoints of people on Chowk who by being virtual and anonymous might be suspect, you should make that trek to the "enemy country" and get the real scoop. If you are indeed interested in a real education. Chowk is only the superficial part of it. . .

I am not returning to this thread.

Beti:

Oops, I never thought it would be so difficult. Anyway, you really did bring two points of view out of the clutter. It just might be worth it, Clifton.

anil chacha are you saying if i build the acropolis they will come :)

Re: # 690

Clifton beti:

You indeed make the most important point.

I truly was looking for this debate between to point of views on Pakistan identity. I hope you can bring Zeena and Ana out to debate it as two debators.

May be you write a Front Page essay, and let them and others come and debate.

clifton jee aapki guftugoo mein say aqraba parwari kii boo aarahi hay

clifton jee aapki guftugoo mein say aqraba parwari kii boo aarahi hay

I think both ana and zeena did a great job of portraying "our POV" pakistaniat insaniat and zananiat.

Mirch masala aside there were two genuine points of view , as in Zeenas traditional approach and Ana's saying pakis are not monolithic and lahore belongs to her as much as she belongs to it. Good stuff all round.

Re: # 687

BJ:

"... are you running low on your stock of Punjabi gaalis?!..."

Zeena, I thought is not Punjabi. Isn't her language different from Indian languages?

Please spare me, I have never called anyone racist. I have only raised objection to having an identity based on genetic traits.

its a sad sad day when zeena is tasked with presenting our POV....saray special bachay hamaray hi hissay mein kyoon aatay hein..:(

Re: # 681

[I for one would like to learn from both viewpoints.]

Why, are you running low on your stock of Punjabi gaalis?!

BTW, it is rather unfair to call little sis a racist when clearly she does not spare black OR white!

What to say of the blue-colored ones with puny noses!

hasb-e-maamool = as usual, the usual.

Re: # 683

Ana:

"...why does this debate interest YOU so much?..."

Probably, because of curiosity and being able to spend time on Chowk.

Re: # 683

Ana:

"...Pakistan is not a monolith..."

I do not think any identity is a monolith.

Pakistan (not Pakistani) Identity cannot be complete with you, as as it cannot be complete by excluding Zeena (I am not implying that you are excluding her or anyone). I am not sayin this because you are Christian, but because you have a perspective and feel equally strongly about being from Pakistan.

Zeena says that she believes in Jinnah's vision, and his often quoted speech, then she may need to rethink her definition of Pakistan identity.

Making genetic traits as part of identity does not sound right to me.

What is "hasb-e-maamool"

anil, i hate to disappoint you, but i do not wear kid gloves anymore. plus, why does this debate interest YOU so much? there is no debate. i hurt people's sensibilities. zeemax and i talked it over. the leviathan zeena turns the tables around and calls ME a racist. And there is no debate possible when one refuses to see reason. there is just the hasb-e-maamool at chowk.

i am afraid you will have to get your jollies elsewhere. identity in Pakistan is not a monolith, and that is your lesson for this evening.

good night.