PPP Isn’t Convinced!

Zardari is a compromised man once again -- a prisoner of his past habits -- Zardari has accepted so many -- NRO bribes -- from Madame Musharraf's House of Ill-Repute called the one-man presidency -- through one of his usual 'Pirzada' pimps now called called Qayoom -- from the obliging Judicial brothel called the Dogar Court -- so much so that any mention of a chaste Nov 2 SC -- freezes Zardari from his waiste down -- Zardari becomes unsure and unconvinced -- he can perform the restoration.

"My advice to Zardari would be to trust the mandate and assert. But like I said earlier, an elected PM was hanged in broad daylight in this country, his kids were shot dead at a point blank range by the infamous establishment so PPP’s paranoia has a valid basis and Muslim League N’s bravado is convenient."

Dear author
Your advice is addressed to the one who is at least a suspect to have conspired the point blank killing of two of the kids of that PM that was hung regardless of acquittal by the court on one of those killings and regardless of the recent killing of the other that has not been even investigated along those lines yet, while the third one has overdosed himself on contraband while away from the country.

It doesn't appear that the paranoia that you consider to be a valid basis and the bravado of convenience is about to gain soon.

In as much as the judiciary is concerned no daylight seems to be in sight while the valid base paranoia has already shown signs of intolerance when it comes to unshackled media.

There can't be anything sacred and holy where there is no sincerity to the public because public's mandate was for a change to the existing authority not to certain individuals or parties so to speak, people of Pakistan have always voiced for a change when they became distraught of an existing administration likewise they acted this time around, however it is a misconceived notion that the people necessarily were pointing towards the given individual to be a result of the change.

People of Pakistan are more interested in fulfilling their basic needs for food & shelter with dignity as well as enough electricity to keep them cool, and, not certain faces to run the affairs of Pakistan however what the people are once again facing is vice versa, and, their needs remain without being addressed or even more back breaking.

A common person of Pakistan does not care who it is that is running the affairs of nation as long as their needs are fulfilled be it Mr. M, Mr. Z or MR. N while its quite apparent that no one is there to gain anything from them other than their cronies while it is embedded in the creed of any ruler who took over Pakistan due to the mandate to continue fulfilling the illegitimate and illegal needs of their cronies.

the mandate was supposed to bring in someone who would provide for the needs of people and not meant to ignite a fire against our very own army taking in to account that "not all" in the army are corrupt as portrayed by the media while there is no mayee ka laal who can prove a penny's worth of stealing by (R-Gen.President Musharaf).

Hi people,
Let' all be grown ups.
Removing Musharraf, reinstalling a fired judges ( Mr. Chaudhry included) will not change the basic facts.
The country's problem's are going to be there. I dont see any signs that these politicians have any plans as to what to do. They are not showing leadership in moving the country ahead. They have had open field for the last 30 days and no concrete action has been taken to either inform us of grand vision (even an outline) or any steps to implement the actions to improve, economic, social, or civil issues.

Why dont we talk to these things..... let them play politics with the other issues.

Re: # 2
izuber

"A common person of Pakistan does not care who it is that is running the affairs of nation as long as their needs are fulfilled be it Mr. M, Mr. Z or MR. N "

Give us a break, the average pakistanis prime concerns are veryt different. One of teh largest rally today in karachi was against soem stupid movie made by a ductch man, and not about the crime or pricve rise in pakistan.

The most violent campaign in pak history against teh govt was in response to the freeing of a few chinese captured b7y the jihadis.

The priority for the pakis is religion..full stop and and nothing else matters.

All that the impoverished FATA people are demanding is sharia.

all that this man says proves that the paki state is an anachronism and thus not permanent.a haven of crooks.

Here's an interesting excerpt from Zardari's BBC interview with Owen Benett Jones on 25 April:

OBJ: Jemima Khan wrote ... and I quote from her interview with President Musharraf. She says in the end:

"He shakes my hand. 'It will be the saddest day for Pakistan if Benazir's crooked widower is in power by Monday,'I say. As the President walks away, he looks back. 'At least we part on agreement.'"

Your comments please.

AZ: Well ... what can I say ... she is pretty.

OBJ: Pretty? Are you trying the charm offensive on Jemima Khan?

AZ: One should have pretty friends.

Dear Ahmer

"this status-quo in Pakistan (which in opinion is headed by Army and bureaucracy, landlords, industrialists, land mafias, stock-exchange magicians are there minions)"....

Basically interest groups who ocupy seats of power, if that is the defination then why ignore their biggest fan base i.e., Maulvis and their network of Maderssas one of the major power brokers and architects of this mutated ideology.

Having said that, all of the above are citizens of Pakistan and have the same right as that of any other citizen to exercise their economic, political and social rights. Is being rich a crime? or wearing a certain uniform makes you guilty. I am quite sure that is not what you meant, but that is the impression one would be forced to assume given your broad generalizations.

... so far, i am feeling vindicated ...... when bholay shah tahmed was going nuts over restoring the judiciary and getting rid of musharraf, i tried to tell him that the man was more than a match for the droopy eyed one and the politicians ........ the politicians are corrupt, incompetent and compromised - if not, they have the people's mandate to do whatever they want to do ....... all this stuff about the 'establishment' is sheer nonsense - the fault lies with the clueless unwashed masses and the leaders they have chosen ........

president musharraf zindabad !
sheikh rashid zindabad !

...the person who has played his cards the best is, definitely, nawaz sharif......

he took an issue with which he had, absolutely, nothing to, and made it his own, i.e. the judiciary issue.......nawaz sharif and pml-n did nothing for the judiciary......infact, their rule was one of the worst for the judiciary and the media......

yet, nawaz sensed the public mood, on returning to pakistan, and immediately owned the juidiciary agenda.....

.the elections started right after he landed in pakistan.....he had a rump of his party left......his own political credibility was low as he had opted for saudi arabia and not for jail.......(for those who don't understand pakistani politics, going to jail is the ultimate badge of honor.......and running away the ultimate insult.........this is why gilani is prime minister, and javed hashmi won more seats than any other candidates)....

......on the other hand, ppp has been, traditionally, the anti-establishment party......it took on the establishment....its leader were targeted the most by musharraf......they spent the most time in jail....they are the party that did not break.......(unlike 2/3rd of the pml-n, which opted to join musharraf).....then they lost benazir, and many think the establishment targeted her....

.....yet zardari has fallen behind the public opinion......his party and its workers, have been dying to jump on the judiciary bandwagon......it is also dying to go after musharraf....

.....zardari, however, needs the current judiciary and musharraf to write off his cases........nawaz has already served the time for his........(as has zaradari and that too in jail, however, his cases remain undecided)......

zardari is not playing his cards correctly.....his party has the people's genuine vote.......people know he has spent his time in jail.......i don't think they will let anyone do anything to him, provided he does not fall behind on the judiciary issue, and on the musharraf issue......

nawaz has, in addition, forced his hand even in dubai....one can see easily that zardari has finally given into nawaz.......

pml-n 1 - ppp 0.......

nawaz is now the sharpest sword in pakistan's political armoury.......

i think zardari needs to back down and let gilani, aitezaz, khoro et al. take the lead.......they are the original ppp leaders and will take the party in the correct direction.......

anyways lets see what happens.......as for musharraf, if the govt. wants to impeach him tomorrow, there is nothing he can do.......the army is only powerful if the politicians are split.........

Re: # 9

bewakoof bulleya,

"if the govt. wants to impeach him tomorrow, there is nothing he can do.."

.... please explain how when he is sitting in the army house, the supreme court is stacked with his appointees, and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?

........ i think you should return to canada and open up a pan shop on gerard street where you can expound on your theories on international business and pakistani politics ..... maybe arjun can help you sell t-shirts .....

Re: # 10

hamidm2

Its not Bulleya's fault, common public are driven by sound bites coming from the media, they do not have the capacity or the depth to understand complexities of politics. For the masses, its much easier to believe in the visible, the narrated, the tangible, immediate rather than the abstract. So please, do not condemn bulleya to the pan business maybe to the company of Gonglu Tinda Sharif.

Re: # 11

rf786,

.... i am not a big fan of musharraf - i think the man is despicable - but the politicians are a lot worse than him ...... they are blatantly lying to the public and trying to pull the wool over their eyes - it is they who are showing disrespect to the unwashed masses ..... musharraf's shennigans are transparent and he does it with 'khuli badmashi' challenging the people to 'poot lo jo pootna hai!" ...... i respect that more than the bs being dished out to the people by king zardari and gonglu shiraf of gowalmandi ........... shame on them and the unwashed masses who elected them !

Re: # 12

hamidm2

I totally agree and share with you the same disgust towards our politicians, but show me one electable politician anywhere in the world who does not lie. That breed does not exists, its in their chromosomes to deceive, pander, slander, present themselves as the sole saviors, we all know thats not true, yet Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are nothing but side freak shows.

Point being, we need to emphasize on the process not on individuals. Pakistan needs a political process, granted it needs better politicians but that will come with time and nothing comes for free.

My dear friends.

Lets hold these truths to be evident...
1) The politicians dont have answers to our problems.
2) We just want democracy. cuz supposedly, having general elections where people with the most muscle and money can gain access to power. There lack of ability to rule, create laws, order societies, or anyhting constructive is not important.
We discuss what they do in the streets after elections then what they dont do in parliament.

Our masses dont care about their future, therefore, they elect people who dont create a future.

#11 Posted by rf786 on May 4, 2008 10:15:36 am

["common public are driven by sound bites coming from the media, they do not have the capacity or the depth"]

altaph bai kay tapeworm, you have the depth and the capacity for this:

hamidm #10: ".... please explain how when he is sitting in the army house, the supreme court is stacked with his appointees, and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"

hmm.....i think you need to stick with deaborn politics.....those of us sitting in pakistan, perhaps, have a better first hand understanding of what they are seeing in pakistan.....then again, you supported george bush as the next great hope for the usa (and the world)......so maybe dearborn isn't the correct place for you either...

musharraf, at the moment, is scared to address the parliament.......much less kick it out.....i think after the elections, if bilawal bhutto had clapped once, tens of thousands of people would have gathered around musharraf's house and taken him out....

1. "he is sitting in the army house"
....sitting in an army house doesn't immune one from impeachment.....kindly point out anything in the constitution which mentions the army house......

2. ".....the supreme court is stacked with his appointees,"
.......the supreme court also doesn't have anything to do with impeachment......it is a legally defined procedure, accepted by everyone.....

3. " and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"
.....impeaching a president only requires a 2/3rd majority of the combined parliament - not a 2/3rd majority in each house......the current govt. has this 2/3rd majority.......

in addition, your friend nilofer, after enjoying the pleasures of power, has now formed a small forward bloc in the senate, and has joined the opposition marches against musharraf (though that is not needed for impeachment).....

2/3rd in both houses, separately, is only needed for amending the constitution.......not for impeaching the president....

i try my best to not abuse people on this site.....hence i will not call you an idiot.....but, hamidm mian, your lack of knowledge is really testing even my patience......i can tolerate abuse, but i cannot tolerate stupidity......

the only thing musharraf could do against impeachment, is to use 58(2)-b prior to impeachment.......however no one will bother about that......

one can not put the real problems of the people and reinstating the judges in the same basket. The real problem are gonna take much longer provided a sincere and systematic approach towards solving them is taken, whereas reinstaing judges is a matter of a resolution followed by the executive order - all of which can take less than a day.

Therefore don't try to make excuses in the name of peoples' real problems for dragging feet on the judges issue.

#16 Posted by bulleya on May 4, 2008 12:21:31 pm


those of us sitting in pakistan


geographical proximity doesn't automatically translate into brilliant insights...

I can tell you the situation in iraq is bad even though I've never in Iraq proper.

When you told us to wear t-shirts with paki flags, you were living in the US...

Hamid Mian,

I request your opinion on "The Second World" a book written by Parag Khanna. Where should Pakistan be? Under the Chinese influence? or under the US influence? Should Gwadar be under the influence of a US empire or under the Chinese empire? Could you help the "unwashed masses" understand this new developing world order?

Re: # 19

bubba mian,

.... as a rule i don't need books written by horrible hindoos other tha dinesh d'souza and that fool from trinidad and jhumpa lahri .... why? ... because i think that indians, like pakis, are an inferior breed and really don't have much to say ....... they have contributed 'zero' to civilization other than charlatans like deepak chopra and yogananda ........

..... having said that, i think pakistan should lead the muslim empire from the red fort in delhi ...... of course, first we have to solve the electricity and atta crisis and provide deodrant to the unwashed masses ......

Re: # 4
Jayp
It all depends on what angle you are viewing it from, the masses are dying to learn when they will have roti, kapra aur makan that was promised them in the 70's by the ancestor of those in current regime.
I am sure you can tell that when one is hungry they dont care who serves them food as long as it is served.
All these rallies are organized by the deceptive clown politicians as this is the only method for them to keep the public busy and away from sensing the thirst that needs to be quenched while the public is so naive that without understanding much they jump out to support anything that is being publicized to agitate and protest against the enemies of Islam.
You are right about the rallies on stupid issued but that can camaflouge the hungry stomachs only for a short while as the outrage is getting ready to outpour and then it could bring the need for another democratic movement.
Yes the priority is religion and it will remain religion but this is not what the religion preaches.
Sharia will not hurt anyone if it is adopted with sincerity and in its true spirits although it doesnt look possible in the foreseeable future.
Regards

Re: # 15

If you did not get it the first time, reference was to the common people, not crack whores like yourself.

#16 by bulleya

....sitting in an army house doesn't immune one from impeachment.....kindly point out anything in the constitution which mentions the army house......

What a chutiya..this guy isn't fit to even run a pan shop in Gerard Street. Do you think Musharraf diligenty pored over the Constitution to see under which law a coup is allowed before he unseated NS?

#14 Posted by sachasaint

We just want democracy. cuz supposedly, having general elections where people with the most muscle and money can gain access to power.

Then how come the Chairman of the ruling party lost his own seat in his home town?

#23 Posted by harish_hyd,

Musharraf still has the power to appoint Army Chiefs, which is why he's sitting in the Army House (pending refurbishment of the President house as claimed). That doesn't mean he can command the army to do his bidding anymore as he used to when he was himself Army Chief i.e. as in 1999 in your example.

Zee sahib,

Re: 25

So what is the latest update? Has the PPP agreed to the deal wherein 58-2 b goes and the judges get reinstated but in return Mushy gets assured 5 years term as Prez and none of his actions can be questioned?

Regards

#25 by zeemax

That doesn't mean he can command the army to do his bidding anymore as he used to when he was himself Army Chief i.e. as in 1999 in your example.

Do you mean constitutionally? If yes, Mushy has as much regard for the constitution as a puritan has for a whore. If otherwise, after filling in all senior positions in the army with his loyalists, do you think there are senior officers who would rise in revolt against him?

That said, both Zia and Mushy rose against the very men who handpicked them, so there's no reason why the same cannot happen to Mushy.

...what exactly is musharraf's trump card, at the moment.....

.....it is not the army....the army is not going to listen to him......it knows where its bread is buttered, and which way the public opinion is flowing......at most, it will not allow him to be jailed.......this is a general tradition, amongst generals.......they never jail each other.......nor do they allow any of their colleagues to be jailed.........

the reason being that each general knows this could become a trend......hence they don't want it started......to this day, only one air force general was jailed, after retirement......

.....it cannot be public opinion.........

..and what does ppp gain from him......they hate him......gilani and zardari suffered the most during his rule (along with javed hashmi, naveed qamar etc.).......

.....so why is the ppp leaning to save him....at the cost of losing popularity.......

one would have to say it is the influence of hamidm mian's best bud - W......i cannot think of anyone else.......i think the usa wants a peaceful exit for him.......so that he can retire to boston.......

the usa doesn't need him anymore either........they have already nominated kayani to the worlds' 100 most influential list......i am not sure why, but they have......a picture in time will keep him happy for the next 20 years.....

there fear of mullahs with nukes is gone.......they must have realized that elections in pakistan, actually do not result in mullahs in power.......

so what is their motivation.....well i think it is to ensure every other dictator they are supporting (and there is a long list) that a safe exit is gauranteed, once the tables turn.......(and because bush sticks with personal friends........he kept rummy going, even when hamid mian was fed up of rummy)........

so if musharraf is nailed.......what will the usa say to all the other dictators it supports......

hence the plan, i believe is to allow a safe exit to musharraf, with dignity.......with the aid of the usa......they must have offered zardari a lot of carrot and/or stick to gaurantee that.......

and nawaz sharif is reaping the benefits.......

ppp is screwing this up......they spend time in jail, while nawaz runs off to the palaces of riyadh.......but it is nawaz who reaps the benefits........

and musharraf goes laughing all the way to boston......much like shaukut is laughing all the way to new york......he turned out to be the smartest......got out at the right time.......he can gloat........

#26 Posted by majumdar,

It appears Musharraf has agreed to let powers under 58-2(b) go, as well as restoration of Judiciary as long as the existing ones are retained, but is still insisting on the power to appoint army chiefs. There's a deadlock there but I think both PPP and PML (N) have agreed to take one thing at a time and get the judiciary restored, and worry about the rest later.

#27 Posted by harish_hyd,

What I meant was that the army works under a very tight hierarchical chain of command. The Presdient is not a part of that chain of command.

He can appoint the army chief but can not give him orders.

But I knew you were going to come out with an argument like you just did :)

#30 by zeemax

But I knew you were going to come out with an argument like you just did :)

Which one? The one about Mushy's regard for the constitution or the one about Zia and Mushy going against their masters?

Great expectations were placed in Muslim troops of British Indian Army before 1914.German general Von Bernhardi writing in his book "Germany in the future war" hypothesised that Muslim troops of Indian Army would not fight against the Turks.The Muslim troops mostly Punjabi were loyal to British as a rock against the turks.Only the Tribal Pashtuns the Wazirs , Mahsuds and Afridis and the Ranghars of 129th Light Infantry rebelled.Even the Sikhs showed disaffection.As a result Afridi Mahsud Wazir Ranghar and Sikh recruitment was reduced after WW One and the Punjabi Muslims became the majority in fighting arms.Not for fighting well but for proven loyalty against Muslims.Such was the difference that when two Pathan squadrons of 15 Lancers refused to fight against Turks in Iraq it had to be replaced by the Hindu Jat squadrons while the Punjabi Muslim squadron of 15 Lancers stayed loyal.The same was proven again at Jallianwalla Bagh.The only instance of Indian troops refusing to fire against civilians was done by Garhwali Hindus of Garhwal Regiment at Peshawar IN 1930.This is the same pakistani army with the mercenary tradition.little good should be expected from it.mercenaries they were and mercenaries they will remain.

Pakistan is not the land of heroism.It is the land of opportunism and shameless pragmatism.Thats why Bakht Khan was killed by Muslim soldiers from the FF regiment according to its regimental history.Thats why Prince Feroz Shah in 1859 had to seek sanctuary in Bajaur.

Yesterday army chief General Kiani should have briefed secretary defence only . What business does he have of briefing the politicians directly.The question is that minister of Defence or secretary defence instead of controlling the army are controlled by the army.Most of the politicians have served in some military government in Pakistan.Independent spirit was stifled as a policy by all four military governments of Pakistan.Pakistani defence forces are heavily dependent on US/European suppliers for their hardware.The army is a standing regular army instead of an army based on universal military conscription.An attempt by ZAB to introduce a smaller regular army with a wider expandable civilian reserve in time of war like Israel and many European armies was sabotaged by ZAB.The army as an institution has a vast share in the country's economy.

Seein in this situation little dynamism or independence of spirit can be expected from the present political set up already swelled by opportunists joining the coalition.There seems little hope that a leader will emerge who has the statesmanship , the intellect and above all the resolution to say No to the USA.The Unipolar World Order established after 1990 has successfully and without any moral regret successfully attacked and occupied two independent countries Iraq and Afghanistan.It appears that soon Iran will be on the hit list.Big business , banks with huge profits and big interests have already penetrated Pakistan's economy and stock market.Unemployment is on the rise and extremist outfits small in number but force multiplied by ruthless efficiency and fanatical motivation seem to be terrorising the silent majority.Just like 12,000 Bolsheviks held Russia hostage after 1917.A confusion of principle has been introduced by the contradiction between what the state stands for and its linkage with Pakistan's ideology.On the other side is the dilemma of balancing the Indian threat with the US threat and to walk a tight rope in between.Who will perform this extremely difficult balancing act.The military led by its generals mafia seems to have withdrawn but this is only a tactical withdrawal.A suspension of action by the generals.In hunting terminology it is said that once a tiger or a lion tastes human blood it becomes lazy , no longer hunts and prefers human flesh which is far easier a pray.Similarly Pakistan's generals have tasted the blood of their own people.They have been blinded by real estate and mega deals.Its difficult that they would abandon man eating.

The Pakistani politicians main benefactor is the USA , thanks to the National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) manipulated by USA they were bailed out.Its outrageously illogical to assume that any Pakistani politician would have an independent outlook.Rhetoric and some cosmetic gestures apart , docility timidity and meekness in front of USA would be rule of the game.

Peace between India and Pakistan is also a mirage.A glance at India's increasing defence and intelligence budget proves that the conflict will continue at low intensity till Pakistan is denuclearised.Every sell out to USA would be rationalised by Pakistani politicians and generals by saying that it had to be done to prevent Indian hegemony.

The USA is a strange ally of Pakistan.On one side its an ally and on the other it is preparing to reduce Pakistan to size.No joke that Henry Kissinger said that to be an enemy of USA is one thing but to be its friend is deadly.The USA has occupied Afghanistan not as a final objective.Its long term strategic agenda includes reducing Pakistan to size on one hand and to use its army as a mercenary just like the British used it against the Turks and the tribal Pashtuns.

A long hard road lies ahead for Pakistan.While Musharraf thoroughly discredited the army by his major policy blunders after 2002 there are many Musharrafs in the waiting in the army.While present politicians have got yet another opportunity to prove that politicians have not failed Pakistan.The challenge is phenomenal.Already the many hopeless intelligence agencies of Pakistan master at killing its own people and failing miserably in war to find out where the Indian Armoured Division was have re-commenced the game of divide and rule and breaking or blackmailing politicians.

This does not mean that the paki generals are invincible.History will take its course.Pakistan will be Balkanised because it is a failed state.This process may take up to two decades.Pakistan's army will outlast Pakistan and the potohar mercenaries will serve the Americans and even the Indians as loyally as they served the brits.


The future is not as bright as many hope and the man eater or man eaters has not been dealt with.Pakistan is sandwiched between a dangerous internal threat basically created by its army's misuse of religion and by a dangerous external threat compounded by a weak economy .One can only say that the remedy in this situation is not the job of a mediocre politician.Statesmanship appears to be sadly lacking and generalship extremely rare in Pakistan's army.May be we should expect a miracle ? But as Machiavelli well said more than 400 years ago " God was neither on their side nor ours".

... today masadi's mom slapped him because the us elite told her to do it ....... on top of that, everyone is running the traffic light at marir chowk because the americans told them to do so ..... bewakoof bulleya is raving like a lunatic because george bush stole all his marbles .........

Amin sahib,

(On the other side is the dilemma of balancing the Indian threat

There is no threat from India. Pakistan's threats come from its own inability to meet its people's aspirations.

Regards

#32 Posted by pavocavalry on May 5, 2008 4:48:01 am


The USA is a strange ally of Pakistan.On one side



For this you have no one but yourself to blame...during the cold war, there wasn't a military alliance you didn't like or try to join...

while India was building IITs, you volunteered to build IIT(institutes of islamic terrorism) on your own soil..to fight the soviets..all those F-16s that you got in return were going to help the momin kick the cowardly bania out of Kashmir...

now you're whining because your own unrealistic expectations weren't met..

#31 Posted by harish_hyd,

No I missed this part in your #27:

That said, both Zia and Mushy rose against the very men who handpicked them, so there's no reason why the same cannot happen to Mushy.

So we agree that Musharraf having power to appoint Army Chiefs makes no difference, despite your contention otherwise in the first part of the same post.

Why people of Pakistan are still unable to break the shackles & chains of East India Company and its Najaiz aulad:

From the scalpel of Dr. Israr Ahmad.

http://www.jang-group.com/jang/may2008-daily/05-05-2008/col2.htm

Re: # 20 Posted by hamidm2 on May 4, 2008 8:06:31 pm

hamid mian,

[..... having said that, i think pakistan should lead the muslim empire from the red fort in delhi ......]

until such time comes, what should Pakistan's foreign policy be? Be part of the US empire or part of the Chinese empire? or play the two for maximum leverage? Just like Libya has done between the US and EU.

[... of course, first we have to solve the electricity and atta crisis and provide deodrant to the unwashed masses ......]

that is just some deomestic policies, that is not for the two empires to worry about.

Re: # 38


.......i think the right thing to do is to play one against the other and thus have the best of both worlds ....

personally, i would rather be part of the us empire and sign up for becoming the 51st state (this independence thing is highly overrated) but i don't think that is possible and in case the two empires decide to go at it we could be run over by the chinese within a week ..... so, straddling the fence sounds right .......

Re: # 39 Posted by hamidm2 on May 5, 2008 10:45:12 am

Hamid mian,

[.. so, straddling the fence sounds right ..]

so buy all the arms and protection from being in the US empire, and give all the money generating projects to the chinese people.

how does such a strategy work for the unwashed masses? so the ruling elite becomes a broker in-between?

Re: # 37 Urstruly.... I red article by Ahmed. IIt is definitely must read for everybody.
But our army professional and philosopher Major PavoCavalary has better done and given thoughtful line of thinking and logical extension going back in pecularities of subcontiunent development from Mughal, maratha , East India co to british rule, then the psycological development and make up of army. Major has better work and thoughful and devoid of emotional baggage.
Problem with Major is he is nonchalant about present united federal Pakistan. I doubt he will shed any tears if ethinic forces specially B.Stan ot NWFP provinces exit union. That part I do not like. He is more like Karl marx when he wrote that manifesto , he was just logical and clinical with his thesis. Same may Major is hope he develops theory / philosophical basis ( he constructs) so will give some theoretical basis for existance of union. The Two nation theory has failed in every sense and hope still some logic be developed to hang on for existence of United federal pakistan. I doubt he will do that as he has categorically stated he is for more freedom to units.If I am wrong he can tell his thoughts on this matter. I value his thoughful process and analytical and his dilectics reminds me of marxian outlook.
Good day everybody

Re: # 41 madani

It is hard to disagree with Pavo's analysis of the peculiarities of this region but his analysis goes against one of the basic law of nature. This law can be paraphrased as "the only constant in the world is change". Human beings have this amazing ability to change and as individual changes the society changes too. The corrupt, oppressive, and shameless social order that was established by East India Company and later inherited by the kalay angraiz is about to fall victim to the law of the Natural Selection. Nature abhors corruption, inefficiency, and incompetence. This system has overstayed its welcome. Don't you see that all the forces of darkness, corruption, and greed are feeding this system intravenously to keep it alive? The corrupt European and American empire resuscitate this system by injecting billions of dollars every week into it to keep it alive. This is 10s of time greater than what they had to spend during cold war. Look at Americans how they shamelessly support our dictator who is vicious, corrupt, and incompetent to the core. Not a single human being in Pakistan wants to see this a/hole one more day. Don't you see how they are fighting tooth to nail to keep honest and morally upright judges from taking office? Don't you see how they unleash their fascist bulldogs on innocent Pakistani citizens? It only means that the days of the old order are numbered now. And who is bringing this change? All the sons of this soil, who love their dharti maaN more than anything. These are the very people whom cold and apathetic analysts like pavocavlary had cast into the dustbin of history.

Today, Pakistani society may not be in an enviable position but today we have a dream. We as a society had given up on our hopes and dream but it took just one man, Iftekhar Ahmad Chowdry, to revive our dream. Today, we have a dream of a Pakistan where there will be social justice, economic parity and rule of law. Have hope in people. IT WILL BE DONE.

Long long time ago at a distant galaxy a desparate man walks into a brotherl at late hours. The only sex worker was wrapping up. The horny man showed his great eager. The pros told him that she would charge $30.00 for a single act. The poor man came up only with $15.00. She refused but he came up with an ingenious plan. What if I insert half of my jung for $15.00? The pros agreed. During performance the man parked all of his equipment into her garage. It was too late but still she protested that why he inserted the whole while he was paying half. The man replied, "I agreed to insert the rear half of my dick. I do not care the distal half". So when we object to existing system and want to replace it with new one, be careful what are you contracting for. There are outmoded forces who fought Russians as imperialist watchdog mercenaries now talk about Islamic system sponsored by Dr. Pur Israr and company. Its mean getting out of pan into fire. Look at the stupidity of our new goverment. They abolished old system in tribal areas. Now mullahs are demanding they only want religious rule. What that's mean to a common man. First we were directly ruled by British/American imperialists. Now we will be pushed further down the stack and will be ruled by Saudis who will be ruled by Americans and who will be controlled by Israel. These thugs receive petrodollar from filthy shieks and they drum up business for these corrupt kings and amirs of the middle east. If you are eager to bless our land with such slavish law then why do not you first liberate Kabba and Jerusalem and establish your system there. We the people of Pakistan need a system based on our own values, culture, heritage, resources, needs and capabilites. In other word we do not want to trade mercedes with camels when our own donkey performs better than camel.

#43 NangaPir: Excellent point!!

Re: # 43

It needs effort and sacrifice to change the system. Those who have it in them have already butted their heads cruel oppressors and their superpower backers. If you have it in you, then quit whining; you don't need my permission to make your vision come true.

Re: # 43

NangaPir

Excellent post, bravo.

#37 Urstruly

[Why people of Pakistan are still unable to break the shackles & chains of East India Company and its Najaiz aulad]

If it does break those chains, it will run right into the open arms of the mullas.

I don't think I've mentioned this before (that's supposed to be a joke, btw). So let me say this: NO MUSLIM COUNTRY WILL EVER BECOME A TRUE DEMOCRACY. LOOK AT PAKISTAN. LOOK AT BANGLADESH. LOOK AT INDIA. SAME STARTING POINT, SHARED HERITAGE - BUT VASTLY DIFFERENT RESULTS.

The reason for this? Islam, of course.

Well I think the game is pretty much clear now. The Murree accord was a ploy by Zardari to gain time to line-up the Plan 'b' coalition. That was done through giving control of Karachi to MQM and the forward blocs in PML-Q. By 30 April they had enough numbers in the parliament to maintain their Government in the center without PML-N support if it walked out.

That acted as a lever to blackmail PML-N into conceding its stance of restoration of judiciary to 2nd November 2001 to a restoration PLUS retention of the existing. The further time till 12th May was also obtained using the same blackmail (PML-N doesn't want the coalition to fall apart) by Zardari leaving Pakistan as the dead-line of 30 April approached, refusing Shahbaz Sharif's delegation, and then making Nawaz Sharif himself rush over and make all concessions.

These 12 days are now serving to fix Punjab by removing Chaudhries and installing Chattha in their place. All this is to sideline PML-N and Zardari becomes Grand Vizier with musharraf as the patron king.

I must admit Zardari has turned out as a master tactician par none. He always was with his 'zabaan' which is how Benazir fell for him, but I had no idea he was equally talented in politics. I think the coalition will fall apart on 13 May to be replaced with a new one.

So, Urstruly, next I guess it may indeed be what you have been saying all along while I had been giving a two-years time period for another experiment. It hasn't even taken 3 months to unravel and the outcome may be just months ahead.

2nd November 2001=2nd November 2007

Re: # 48 Zeemax;

And with in next three weeks NS will concede too. But "everything will be back to normal" is only an illusion that these a/holes are chasing in futility. And I think this is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan in 60 years. Now everyone who will be guillotined has identified himself.

#50 Posted by Urstruly,

I don't think NS will concede any further than he has done, but everything cannot be back to normal in any case because hyper-inflation is around the corner.

Yes I guess you're right. Maybe it's the best for the mobilization of the masses.

Re: # 51 zeemax

NS has no choice. About 50% or more of his so called elected PML-Ns are the lottas who left PML-Q just before the lections because they started seeing the new coalitions. If today NS will calls for resignations, the same game that haramzaday moulvis played during hadud ordnance debacle and many other times during last five years, will be played again. Probably 6.5 of the elected ones may resign too. But the game will be the "Punjab govt." a repeat of the called "NWFP" in the past set up.

I think moulvis will not only be guillotined but castrated as well before that.

It would be a completely stupid move to leave the coalition for Judges. A political party should never be one trick pony or one issue party.

N Sharif has many cards but the lawyers card is going to be neutralized. What happened in Pindi yesterday was a reminder to the lawyers that they can be split. A better response would be to stay in the govt for as long as they can and regroup.

The Judges issue was to bring Mushy down. They half succeeded and now is the time to rethink their strategy instead of letting everything go including the government in Punjab.

#52 Posted by Urstruly,

Yes I agree. Just yesterday I saw Ijaz-ul-Haq begging to join PML-N on one of the channels, but that was yesterday. He may have changed his mind now or may tomorrow.

However, I maintain the core PML-N will remain and join agitation.

Of-course you're right about the maulvis.

let me remind everyone of what i have been saying all along:

president musharraf zindabad!
sheikh rashid zindabad!

now, i would like to add:

asif zardari zindabad!

jithon di khoti, uthay ja khaloti!

I just read this news that a serving pilot has been appointed the managing director of PIA.( WTF)
So now a man who probably has no idea of what a P$L statement is, how to make a budget, understand the complexities of leases and buybacks and other financial instruments, understanding or negotiating extremely complex financial dealings(PIA is headquarted in the carribean), Human resource development, let alone day to day management of a large multinational organization.
His claim to entitlement ( yes sir, the very important qualification FRIEND OF ZARDARI)
I guess the day is not far when more antiquities of Pakistan will be flown to England or Dubai to be displayed at that humble abode "The Surrey Palace", or similar to the acts of 1990s discreationary funds will be send to Zardari's bank accounts overseas)

The reason I am saying all this is because exactly actions like these ( appointing cronies to positions of decision making at national entities ) caused the nation to face huge problems since these people have no right to position except their relationship with the appointing authority

#55 Posted by hamidm2,

No hamidm2, seriously, ANY political dispensation other than the existing will be quite unnatural and unacceptable to the public.

But it seems some formula or the other will be agreed by 12 May going by Aitezaz Ahsan's remarks last night. Problem is, will the sacked judges agree to return according to that formula? That is the question. Many have said they will not return and that will keep the issue alive.

Posted as iLog and reposted here due to relevance:

Trusting the Trojan horse

(The Nation, Afzal Khan - April 15 2008)

MQM’s latest threat to sit in the opposition has a familiar ring designed to convey a message to the PPP. Its timing is intriguing. As has been the pattern of its moves in the past, the present action has some multi-dimensional motives and objectives vastly distinct from what the party has publicly stated.

The MQM move came only two days before the crucial summit meeting of the 4-party coalition that is likely to clinch the issue of deposed judges. President Musharraf has been building enormous pressure on Asif Zardari through Americans and other quarters to pre-empt this decision or at least stall the reinstatement of Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry at any cost. The MQM’s sudden move is timed to enhance this pressure.

The PPP is also finding it difficult to accept the terms of endearment as price for MQM’s cooperation. Media reports say the MQM wants 35 per cent share in Sindh government in addition to its choice of governor. At the centre it has been seeking four plum ministries including communications and, above all, port and shipping. To neutralize Nawaz Sharif’s opposition, Altaf offered him hand of friendship after several weeks of venomous attacks.

Ostensibly, the appointment of Shoaib Suddle as IG Police Karachi preceded earlier by a major reshuffle of police structure in Karachi appears to be the immediate trigger. The new security set-up represents a bold and serious attempt by the PPP to hold a genuine inquiry into the bloodbath of October 18 and April 9 (if possible May 12 as well). The MQM faces the threat of being exposed as a result of these investigations.

Such is the tenuous nature of the budding PPP-MQM affair that it began showing cracks within couple of days after the fantastic spectacle of bonhomie during Asif Zardari’s April 3 Nine-Zero yatra. The stirring speeches by Zardari and his new-found love Altaf Hussain had a surreal touch. Ironically, while the series of events following that visit have a sequential nexus, hardly anything has been unpredictable.

First the MQM decided to indefinitely boycott the assembly session on the flimsiest possible excuse -episode involving Arbab Rahim. Arbab must have been amused by the display of “solidarity” by his tormentors who made his life miserable as chief minister for three years. Then on an equally insignificant (howsoever deplorable) incident of maltreatment of Dr. Sher Afgan, the MQM lawyers staged a protest rally the very next day. Karachi was assigned to another day of infamy marked by charred bodies, arson, loot and anarchy.

The theatrics two days later was the fourth of its kind in one year and deceived none. Altaf Bhai excused himself from leading the MQM (a la Aitzaz Ahsan style whom he paid tribute for risking his life to rescue Afgan). As expected the “resignation” was withdrawn in no time amid melodramatic scenes and a charged speech that implicitly acknowledged responsibility for the April 9 carnage. Zaradri again contacted Altaf and resumed negotiations for power-sharing in Sindh.

Everything has been scripted and choreographed with single-minded intent to thwart the people’s verdict of February 18 and avert the inevitable “minus one” denouement predicted by Aitzaz Ahsan. For this purpose the choreographer, who justified the heinous crimes in Karachi as a reaction to Sher Afgan episode, considers it imperative to drive a wedge between Zardari and Nawaz Sharif for which the former is being offered tantalizing options and power permutations.

In a command performance, the MQM responded generously to Asif Zardari’s request to withdraw Dr. Farooq Sattar as opposition’s candidate to contest prime minister’s election. Next day the PMl-Q joined to give a “unanimous” vote of confidence to Yousaf Raza Gilani. There were pious expression of extending “unconditional” support to the PPP in the larger national interests and reconciliation.

But MQM’s prominent leader Babar Ghori spilled the beans within hours of the vote. During discussion on a TV channel, Ghori noted that the 249 votes polled by speaker Dr. Fahmida Riaz included 91 from the PML-N leaving 158 votes which are not enough to elect the prime minister. “To free the PPP of dependence on Nawaz Sharif’s vote, we decided to support its candidate.” This was the strategy Musharraf had pursued immediately after the elections but failed because Zardari was shrewd enough to sense the outrage he would have caused in the entire country by aligning with pro-Musharraf parties.

He was then blackmailed by the threat of Amin Fahim group chipping away a dozen or so PPP members to form a government in collaboration with the MQM, the PML-Q, PML-F etc. But this was not 2002 and any such move would have had terrible backlash in rural Sindh where people had avenged Ms. Bhutto’s murder by voting her party to power despite selected rigging. The strategy was changed accordinly.

I asked a veteran anti-PPP Sindhi leader as to who delivered MQM to Zardari, his spontaneous response was:”General Musharraf’. Zardari’s motives to woo the MQM were obvious: first, to prevent a nexus with Fahim and secondly to buy peace in Karachi and other cities. It makes an eminent sense that political forces representing rural and urban Sindh must coalesce to end years of hatred and ethnic prejudices. This policy was adopted by Benazir in 1988 when she co-opted MQM in the coalition at the centre and in Sindh. But the MQM proved a Trojan Horse and stabbed her within 9 months by supporting the no-confidence motion at the behest of Ishaq and army chief.

The much-trumpeted MQM “mandate” has some disturbing features. Before it suffered a serious set back last May by blatantly supporting Musharraf siding with Musharraf against lawyers, the MQM was ambitiously projecting itself as a national party. But May 12 outrage pushed the MQM back to its original narrow-based ethnic and linguistic appeal based on hatred and tainted by violence and coercive tactics. The boycott by Jamaat Islami and Sunni Tehrik left the field wide open for the MQM landslide victory buffeted by state patronage and enormous financial and administrative resources.

There is strong possibility that the MQM will soon resume its contacts with the PPP and sort out differences. This will, however, be part of the larger strategy of its mentor Musharraf to oust Nawaz Sharif from the coalition.

Of-course this is dated three weeks ago and much before the Judiciary restoration deadline of 30 April. The above has now become clear and obvious.

Zee sahib,

So what happens when PML-N is booted out and a PPP-QL-MQM alliance comes to power in both Centre and Punjab.

Complete victory for the Mush-Bush alliance???

Regards

#59 Posted by majumdar,

I don't think that will happen. PPP and Musharraf's foreign guarantors are making sure Musharraf has an honorable exit after a year or so minus 58-2 (b) despite PML-N, which has no choice but to accede.

However, there IS a very powerful 'establishment' factor as well which is forcing delaying tactics on the coalition via manipulation as well as administrative measures (e.g. the postponement of NA by-elections from June to August) so that the public is fed-up with the politicians again in another month or so - given the inflation/shortages etc - and is ready to accept an exercise of 58-2 (b) by Musharraf.

These are the two forces in play now, and PML-N is painted into a corner by both at the same time.

You may have noticed I have started spelling Musharraf with a capital M which I didn't do before in contempt. It is because he is not a spent force at all as I had mistakenly imagined. That fact alone demands respect.

Re: # 55 hamidm
All you had to do was to scream " Khoti zindabad, and that would have covered all of them"

Re: # 56 Sachasaint

Well said. Everything in that banana republic is upside down. In other self respecting nations such posts are usually given to people whose education qualification is no less than PhD and have vast experience in managing a business concern of this scale. There is no doubt left in my mind that the process of Natural Selection that has been set in motion is going to consume us all.

Hamid Masih's angst is understandable whenever there is a hint of good news for the people of pakistan and his monkey dance at the carnage is the manifestation of his rape that took place at the hands of chowdry sahab in raja bazar, so although we should have pitty but there is no real reason to take him seriously.

Now, what the fukk are we talking about. Are we actually saying that democracy is a bad idea and we should go back to Army rule because the coalition hasnt been able to resolve ALL our problems in 30 days? Ground realities are fact of life and we all know that estab. is a menace that wont be curbed easily, but does that mean we convlude the principal. And that principal is that the will of people should rule, people who are beneficiries of status-quo should and must advocate the perpetuation of it, we see it all day long on our tv screens in shape of Malik qayyum, tariq aziz et al, but anyone with a mere shred of decency and fairness should be sick to there stomach at this blatant rape of the will of people at the hands of estab.

There is nothing wrong with being rich, but if your wealth was accumulated at the expense of the poor than i shouldnt have to even say that its wrong. I know things on ground require a certain level of compromise with the devil but for the love of God at least on an anon cyber forum agree with the principal.

what does the ppp gain from joining with musharraf and pml-q/mqm........nothing.......

it loses a lot.......

so why is it trying to save musharraf......one would have to say the americans want to give him a safe exit......the parliament can be controlled by ppp........but judges cannot.......

so they need the judges to be neutralized......after which musharraf gets a safe exit.......retires to boston.......and life goes on......

the usa ensures hosni and others that if there is ever a revolution agasint them, they can protect them......and to keep that confidence, they need to ensure musharraf gets a safe exit.....

Re: # 64

Neither Musharaf will go anywhere nor judges are going to come back. The real reason is that that the ruling elite is one and the same. This system of corruption, inefficiency, and lawlessness benefits ALL OF THEM immensily. They can squander billions and get away with it. They can even get away with cases of murder. As urdu proverb goes, have they been bitten by a mad dog to change all this?? No, they will preserve it no matter what it takes. That was the reason, benazir was murdered because she wouldn't have sold PPP so cheap. Zardari is a thrid class small timer, Mr. 10%, corrupt to the core and thus easy to control. Americans have vested interest to keep this status quo because a corrupt nation is easy to control, especially when it is the most important country in Islamic world. Any positive change in Pakistan will mean a domino effect in rest of the muslim world.

But what all these badmash a/holes don't realize is that the times have changed. It is no more on their side. A repeat of what was happening before Feb 18, in this country will bring these a/holes down to their knees in six months. I hope they realize the sort of peril they are in.

#65 Posted by Urstruly,

Sir, I fully agree.

Now how about writing an article like 'That Whore' again? I've been asking you for a year. Let's talk about something else.

The course has been set, as you had predicted and I had given a two year time for another experiment in controlled democracy. Nothing will change it.

So, what will be, will be.

Now how about that article, Urstruly? Real Guy De Maupassant style!

#56 hamidm: I hope you have something to personally gain out of this mockery of the people's will that has been made by zardari in joining hands with the mqm murderers and the rogue general. because if you do, then at least you have some shred of logic (however short-sighted and selfish) behind your applause. otherwise, you are merely an idiot.

yusufzai:

hamid is no masih or "anointed one". please do not tarnish the masih by associating that with him.

he will thank you one day. :)

ana bibi (sine jee seems 2 be ur pet peeve) i get it that u might not want him...but we get blamed 4 our ass-holes so u need to own urs...he is wat he is..i have said many a times that we dont treat our minorities well in pakistan n shame on us but when these bitter individuals gain annonymity than that hate n bitterness is on display with all guns blazing..which might be justified to some extent but as a society we shouldnt justify crazies pissing in the air..the society at large needs to be protected..if someone likes to soak in there own piss than they should fill upp a glass n drown in it in the privacy of there own home...take a page from the playbook of muhtaram mirza ghualm ahmed qadiyani for the love of God.

hamza hamza hamza, . . . . :(((

hamid is a blazing atheist, has been since time immemorial which is how old he is too and the sharaab hasn't killed him yet. he belongs to none of us, so yahaaN ownership ka sawaal hi paida nahiN hota. what the hell are you talking about?

Chalein mein maazrat kiyayy layta hoon...mayra kissi kayy ghar aana jana to hay nahii..aap kehtii hein kay hamid dayharya hay to mein manay laytay hoon...

waysay mayri schooling st. judes mein hoi hay....mayra shikwa nafrat say nahii hay, generalization or niri jahalat say zyada hay.

Re: # 70

ana,

..... now you are tarnishing the poor atheists !...... that is the problem with you religious types - mohammedans, christians and jews - you think atheists are worse than hindoos and even lower that mirzaees ...... no wonder nobody wants to fess up to being an honorable atheist .....

...... by the way, i was born a moslem and will die a moslem ..... whether i believe in all that nonsense about men and angels conversing in dark caves, is another story ..... like tahmed, i have my own interpretation of islam which transcends the koran and sunnah .....

Re: # 67

tahemd,

..... i am not the one who is mocking the unwashed masses - the poor fools made a mockery out of themselves by voting for these clowns and actually believing that things would be better .... i could say, 'i told you so', but i won't ..... and stop blaming zardari, nawaz sharif is no better ....... don't you ever question what these guys are doong galavanting in london and dubai when the unwashed masses are struggling to buy a 10 rupee roti and sweltering in the heat without electricity ? .......... the reason i like sheikh rashid is that he can always be reached at the lal haveli in pindi sweating under his rayon hair ........


so now maybe you will join me :

sheikh rashid zindabad!
prsident musharraf zindabad!

.......... as these horrible hindoos like to point out so often, moslems and democracy just don't go together .... so let's accpet our hosnis, abdullahs and gaddafis and get on with life ........sorry to burst your bubble (again)

#72 Posted by hamidm2,

Wow! Could you share that with us please?

hamid:

all these years you've been lying to us???!!! jhooTa, makaar, farebi!

Re: # 75

hamid deserves a good firm spanking.After taming neembu my next task is to make his old bottom sore.

#73 hamdim: actually, you were predicting that musharraf would become the "hosni mubarak of pakistan" and i said he would become the "convenient idiot of the politicians" - and the latter is essentially what musharraf is doing his best to be kept on as now that his ambitions of being a life-long dictator are gone with his "wardi".

As for your view that the "unwashed masses" of pakistan are doomed to stay that way - first, the "unwashed masses" who turned "hosni mubarak wannabe" to "convenient idiot wannabe" led by civil society (lawyers, human rights activists, journalists). not by foul-mouthed, foul-smelling unwashed maulvis.

And the civil society in Pakistan, the champions of the "unwashed masses", is going to grow stronger with each passing year.

So - once again, I hope there is something you are personally gaining by applauding the lotas, ghoondas and corrupt politicians. Because otherwise you seem like an idiot, applauding bandits who are busy helping themselves to what is yours.

Tahmed sahib,

Re: 77

What is happening in Pakistan today is the inevitable consequence of rising income levels, literacy rates and awareness levels. There is no magic in it. If this trend continues, maybe in another 10-15 years military intervention in politics wud be unthinkable. Just like much of South East/East Asia (barring China).

Regards

#78 Posted by majumdar,

I disagree majumdar. What is happening today is the inevitable consequence of rising fed-up-ness level.

#78 I agree with majumdar. What Musharraf (and Hamidm) are up against are the tides of economic forces. The american revolution was brought about not by indentured servants and slaves but by moneyed men - washington, hamilton, jefferson and co. The french revolution came about after a century of rising prosperity.

I agree with zeemax too - people had gotten increasingly fed up of the arrogant, lawless and ultimately incompetent ways of musharraf, and his "firing" of the CJ on march 9 was the last straw.

The rising middle classes are the rising tide for democratization and the rule of law. And middle classes (unless they are like hamidm) dont tolerate "hosni mubaraks" for too long.

I thought it was going to be a new leash on the old dog that is pakiland..

I was wrong...It's still going to be the old leash..

here doggy...grease up..bend over...

#80 Posted by tahmed32,

I've never understood though why hamidm supports musharraf. What did musharraf do which was good for the country anyway?

I remember lots of folks here used to argue re his economic 'miracle', and I had said all along it was an illusion. Do they see now where that miracle disappeared?

Re: # 77

tahmed,

.... you old fool! ..... musharraf is better than hosni mubarak - his guided 'path to democracy' is better (and more devious) than anything hosni could come up with ..... unfortunately you and i will be long dead before this journey to democracy ends .....

..... and please stop cpomparing zardari and nawaz sharif to washington and jefferson ! .... do you realize how silly that sounds ??!!

.... i don't particularly like musharraf, but he is still the man in charge ..... so

president musharraf zindabad!
sheikh rashid zindabad!

p.s. don't get too depressed - the droopy eyed cj will be 'restored' but he will be defanged, neutered and about as useful as tits on a bull ..........

Re: # 82

zeemax,

.... if you remember, before the elections i was supporting nawaz sharif and any other unbearded civilian without the mark of the devil on his forehead ...... i have lots of posts with zardari zindabad and nawaz sharif zindabad; the only constant is sheik rashid, who is my home boy......... but i am a realist and belive in hedging my bets ..... and even though i would love to see the civilians running the show, these clowns don't have their act together ...... the drama played out by nawaz sharif and zardari on the cj issue is almost as bad as anything musharraf has done ...... these bast$5ds are mocking and insulting tahmed's unwashed masses who are starving to death while one is servicing his harem in dubai and the other is roaming around london ! ........ shame on them and the jackass they rode in on !

Zeemax;

probably, they were waiting for this moment when people's enthusiasm would dry off, and people would begin to accept the status quo as a carved in stone reality. Yes the situation is that dire, but we must keep the vigil. These haramkhor foujis kuttas, bayshaaram politicians, and kanjar sarkari moulvis need to be reminded every minute that they are nothing but a sorry excuse for human excrement. What kind of pieces of shit they are.

We have a debt toweards the people who were ruthlessly murdered by these madarchods, burnt alive, and made to disappear. These bhenchods are going down. That is what really is carved in stone.

#85 Posted by Urstruly on May 8, 2008 6:38:26 am


but we must keep the vigil.


How's the vigil going from up there in canuckistan?

Re: # 86 nice try, but i am not in caukistan

#85 Posted by Urstruly,

True. So hamidm2 should support us. We're the ones who may save him from a one way ride to the guillotine park.

Yes, the situation is very bad. With rice at Rs. 100 a kilo and atta not available except at high-end stores, there will be hell to come if this is not fixed - and fast!

Re: # 87

urstruly,

... don't tempt arjun mian.... that boy can probably track down your ip address even if it is in a cave somewhere along the pak-afghan border .....

Re: # 88

zeemax,

..... thanks, but i will support general kiyani instead ... the unwashed masses a