Nirmala Deshpande - A Truly Great Soul

Vengat...
Improperly managed partition had destroyed Punjab and Bengal (most powerful states in British India). Punjab recovered. Bengal was totally neglected by successive govt. It was Jinnah and ML's greatest work againt India ( damage two most powerful states).

Re: # 103

Majumdar,

I am not a student of history. Whatever it is, you cannot ascribe partition motives to Gandhiji. Do you mean to say that we should have been perfect and have yielded to all the whims of Muslims to keep the country intact?

To my knowledge Gandhiji was ready to go all the distance, human wisdom at that point of time would have allowed. Muslims (majority of them) never expected the partition demand to go through. They thought it would be wiser on them to keep Gandhi&Co on tenterhooks.

Harishbhai,

I have never blamed MKG for India's poor economic growth, I have merely blamed him for making JLN the PM.

Re: Partition

Had INC accpeted all of ML's demands there wud be no Partition either.
Had INC formed a coalition with Fazlu in Bengal and Allah Bux in Sindh and formed honourable coaltions with ML in Punjab and UP, therw ud have been no partition.
Had MKG not first roused the Muslims during the Khilafat movement and then abadnoned it without a word to Muslims after Chauri Chaura Hindoo Muslim distrust may have been halted.

Regards

#101 by majumdar

I have balemd Brits for the violence not for the Partition.

Majumdar bhai, I am well and truly flabbergasted now. If there was no Partition, would there have been violence? Who raised the Partition demand? Wasn't it Jinnah? So logically, shouldn't he be held responsible? When you can blame Gandhi for India's poor economic growth, why can't Jinnah be blamed for the violence during the Partition?

Harishbhai,

(you once said that the bloodshed during the Partition occurred because the British had advanced the date by a few months. )

Indeed that is ture. I have balemd Brits for the violence not for the Partition.

(You have also blamed the Congress and not Jinnah for the Partition. )

Sigh! Why wud I "blame" someone for a thing that was good? All I have said is that niether INC nor ML were willing to come to terms.

Vengat,

Re; 99

Thanks. It is time we (Injuns/Pakis) reconciled ourselves to separate existence and learn to live amicably rather than fight all the time.

(BJKumar's emotions against partition is quite understandable. He comes from Punjab )

He comes from Bihar, not Punjab. And incidentally my folks come from what is now B'desh and I have not the least regret that Bengal got partitioned and that my ancestral village wud forever be a foreign land for me.

Regards

#98 by vengatramanan

Vengat bhai, I am absolutely not against the Partition. It is the manner in which it was accomplished that I am against. While Pakistan escaped the harmful effects of that, it is still visible in India because we have a substantial Muslim population and the distrust it brought between the communities can still be seen and experienced.

I subscribe to Majumdar's thoughts on this. It is time we started living as good neighbours and stop enriching the wallets of others by sustaining hostilities.

Re: # 96

Harish Brother,

BJKumar's emotions against partition is quite understandable. He comes from Punjab and partition had a direct effect on the people of Punjab. There are many good things that has come out after the partition in the ensuing years. I am not sure if India had remained a single entity, it would have walked down the same course and the results at this point of time could have been undesirable.

I think neither of the majority, living today, feels bad about what happened earlier. It is time we exorcised the sadness, if at all.

#96 Posted by majumdar

Majumdar bhai, if I'm not mistaken you once said that the bloodshed during the Partition occurred because the British had advanced the date by a few months. You have also blamed the Congress and not Jinnah for the Partition.

Harishbhai,

(by the same token can we blame Jinnah)

Why shud I "blame" someone for something that is good. We need to find someone whom we can give credit for Partition.

(and not the British/Mountbatten as you always do for the Partition?)

I am aghast. When have I blamed the Brits and MB for the Partition. What I have always maintained is that the Partition 'cos neither of the parties was willing to come to a common point regarding the safeguards reqd by the ML and legitimate demands of the Muslim community.

Regards

....can we....

#91 by majumdar

I dont blame him for the economic woes. I blame him for imposing JLN as India's PM who (along with his daughter) screwed up India's economy.

Majumdar bhai, by the same token can be blame Jinnah (and not the British/Mountbatten as you always do) for the Partition?

Re: # 85
BJ...
...repenting...

Ans: Who is repenting? They are moving more towards arabs. Now, Pakistan is part of middle east and purely arab slave. Even people of Pakistan demands to remove the pre barbaric/mediaval period of history (Early Indus valley civilisation, Gandhar , Kushan period etc...).
Gandhi supported Khialafat movement. I presume, he would have supporetd OIC also. And then shariat for all Indians etc...
BD is folloing the same path...
BJ the more space you create for moslems, more trouble you bring for yourself. UK, France and Germany is realising it through the Paki, Turk and Algerian migrants.

BJKumar
Lot of emotional outburst...
While in SA, he supported Brits against native Julus. While whites are killing julus, Indians including M K Gandhi provided help to British soldiers. When Brits kicked him, he suddenly realised the value of freedom.

Gandhi had no bright side, which make him natural leader.
So, he required to resort to drama like wearing a single cloth, leading asutere life etc...He will travel in 2nd class compartment, but the total cost of journey will be more than 1st class one...It was his USP (like AkashVani for Muhammed, without that cheating mechanism, Muhammed reduces to a petty gangster). Gandhi, as a baniya, was aware of Indian sentiments. Why will he dilute his image?
Partition was total messy and Bengalis, Sindhis and Punjabis suffered a lot. If you agree with this, then we can take the debate further.

Beej bhaiyya,

(But how does that make Gandhiji a villain?)

No one is blaming MKG for the violence unleashed by Moplahs. I am only blaming him for overlooking the violence by Moplahs against Hindoos. He called off NCM after the Chauri Chaura violence where 22 policemen were killed by a mob. Why not call it off after the Moplah violence (which happened well before the CC incident) where many more people were killed.

(Hindus AND Muslims – knew that Gandhiji was right.)

So why did these Muslims who knew that MKG was right vote for MAJ (pbuh).

(They followed him in haste and they and three of their generations repent that act now…)

Pakis and Bdeshis are (not much) worse off than Injuns, (if at all they are worse off to begin with).

(Regarding the economic system…)

I dont blame him for the economic woes. I blame him for imposing JLN as India's PM who (along with his daughter) screwed up India's economy.

(perhaps it would not have worked against Hitler)

How I wish MKG had been born in Hitler's Germany

Regards

Side note to Harish Hyd:

Harish, thank you for being a sane voice in this crowd of rabble-rousers!