Nirmala Deshpande - A Truly Great Soul

NKG,

Nehru visited Kerala at the invitation of Namboo but was against the imposition of Art 356. It's reported in the newspapers of that time. (There's widespread unrest in Kerala then).

However the Governor of Kerala Dr. B. Ramakrishna Rao gave his report to the Prez of India. It states interalia:

1. Mass release of prisoners (Commies) who murdered policemen

2. Interference in the police administration (tho laughable as if police and govt is separate)

3. Police interference in labour-management disputes

4. Govt's active backing in left Vs non-left trade unions

5. Meddling with civil service (weak point)

6. Use of govt-aided Co-Op societies in promoting Commie parties

7. Brutality and violent suppresion fo student agitations

8. Enactment of unpopular Education Act (run by Nairs and Christians)

9. Use of govt machinery to consolidate Commie party network



Inspite of the semi-chargesheet of the Governor, I am of the opinion that Nehru erred in dismissing the Namboo govt. However Indira Gandhi (bitch) was instrumental in effecting this dismissal.

Nkg,

JLN did not make much money becuase there was no money to be made. As they say, majoboori ka naam Mahatma Gandhi.

Regards

Re: # 221
"Nehru is not involved in any financial iregularity. Have u heard of Anand Bhavan in Allahabad?

P.S: U must have head of Ranjan Bhattacharya the son-in-law of Vajpayee who made crores of ruppes from wheelings and dealings? That sucker use to demand free kebabs from Ashoka Hotels in Dehli. What a cheap fellow he's!"

Ans: Who knows? Indian administration was nascent then. f you see the family tree (Indira, Rajiv, Sanjay...), it will be quite natural that he was not honest person.
Few kebabs are very less compared to stealing the entire Congress party and its power...
What is special about Anand Bhawan?

I think Vengat Bhai would share my thoughts on this...

Majumdar,

Poor peasants may not give away their land but would very much like to see themselves as part owners of all other institutions. The whole agri system we have is very well suited for a socialist system. GT will vouch for it. He has been expecting Wall-Marts of the world to run the Indian agri.

They know how evil are the capitalists. Afterall aren't they harassed unduly whenever they default because of crop failures which again is due to monsoon failures which again they have no control over it.


Poor peasants may not give away their land but when a government strips of their lands under aegis of developmental activities they have no other option egs Narmada, Vaigai, defence sites etc...etc...

Muthu bhai,

And among his Yes Men was a Krishna Menon who publcily defended Russian invasion of Hungary and later played politics with the Indian Army which cost it dear in the China war of 1962.

Regards

This is the reality of JLN's Mush like behaviour. Pandering to casteist and communalist outfits to dismiss a govt which tried to introduce land reforms and educational reforms.

Yes buddy,

I have read about the dismissal and wondered how Nehru was called the liberal democrat. After Patel's death, he became the supreme leader of Congress and got rid of leaders who were not 'yes' men.

Muthu bhai/VRV,

This is what I have dug up on the justification of the dismissal of EMS govt by the progressive, secular, democrat JLN.

http://kashaji.blogspot.com/2007/04/man-who-could-never-keep-his-job.htm l

(The Namboodiripad government in 1957 had irked the powerful Catholic church, the upper-caste Hindu Nair Service Society and the Indian Union Muslim League by introducing bills for radical land reforms and educational reforms. All these elements patronised the Oru anna samaram, the first student protest in Kerala, which employed violent tactics to protest against the government’s decision to raise the student concession rate in public sector boat services in the Ernakulam-Cherthala backwaters from 6 paise (one anna) to 10 paise.

As many as 15 agitators died in the police firing and finally the Centre invoked Article 356 to dismiss the government in 1959. “The struggle created an evil legacy of destructive politics in Kerala, of a brand of politics devoid of the element of sacrifice, of the politics that is a means of livelihood. This self-seeking politics deprived the Congress of the internal strength it had earned during the freedom struggle,” says political observer TK Ramachandran. Antony later expressed regret over his involvement in the anti-Namboodiripad struggle)

This is the reality of JLN's Mush like behaviour. Pandering to casteist and communalist outfits to dismiss a govt which tried to introduce land reforms and educational reforms.

Regards

There'e no comparison btw Nehru and Mush.

VRV:

I was comparing your justification of Nehru being a 'democrat' using constitutional means to dismiss the government of Kerala with the justification used by Musharaff.
That comparison is very valid.

Vengy,

I am not disputing your contention about agriculture being a loss making proposition. All I am saying is that India's peasants are very much attached to their private property (however miniscule or unprofitable it may be).

Regards

Re: # 222

Majumdar,

We have/had a huge proleteriat population outnumbering peasants . The land holding of most of the peasants is miniscule. A proleteriat coolie earns as much the small farmer can. Agri is for losers.


You speak what is served by the government and the media.

There is no way these
losers would have hated socialism. Where do you get the government to write-off the loand?

VRV,

(Nehru is not involved in any financial iregularity. )

I never said that AS lobbied.

Vengy Garu,

(The notion of everything owned by everyone would have appealed to the Indian bent of mine)

I am afraid, you dont know anything about the Indian mind then. Injuns, particularly the peasantry, tend to be very possessive about private property. They may agree to a family owned farm but never a collective.

Regards

#218 Posted by nkg on May 8, 2008 6:09:35 am

Nehru is not involved in any financial iregularity. Have u heard of Anand Bhavan in Allahabad?

P.S: U must have head of Ranjan Bhattacharya the son-in-law of Vajpayee who made crores of ruppes from wheelings and dealings? That sucker use to demand free kebabs from Ashoka Hotels in Dehli. What a cheap fellow he's!

Masan,

There'e no comparison btw Nehru and Mush.

Mohar,

That's funny.

Of course nehru was no saint.. evens the "saints" themselves are not always that saintly... example: mother teresa...

As for Nehru being a democrat, yes he was and he ramained. AS for sacking of Kerala govt, he used the Constritutional provision, which is far more restrained than Indira's rash dismissals.


:-) I heard Musharaff became president through constitutional provisions..

VRV...
First major stock scam in India in 195x...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haridas_Mundhra
Nehru was no saint...

Re: # 213
He was reluctant but relented later (to dismiss Namboo govt). What abt ur langoti BJP govt? They too did as well.

Ans: There are some basic differences. Wherever Congress imposed artcle 356, Congress is routed out of power. In the case BJP, Laloo was kicked out after couple of years.
You can not compare Congress and BJP in this regard.
Farokh Abdullah of J&K, N T Ramarao of AP, R K Hegde of Karnataka Congress is numero uno villain in this pack. During BJP rule, Central Govt. had far better relationship with Congress and other Govt.s. S M Krishna, Digvijay Singh, Vilashrao deshmukh, Budhdhadeb Bhattacharya have got much favourable treatment than their NDA counterpart like Babulal Marandi or Navin Pattanaik...

VRV...
Noble peace prize is now a total political stuff....

gtg & huried posts. mistakes crept in.

As for being critical of the existing realities, what's wrong with it - be it Nehru or us?

Unless u r critical of urslf u cant make amends or reform our system. That's the philosophy of criticism. To say that Nehru wanted to destroy the country is downright mental.

Majumdar,

U sound like Zeemax when it comes to seing ghosts in the afairs of Nobel Committee. Tho I cant deny some distortions but the way they award prizes incl to Amartya Sen is fair. To say that Sen lobbied is lie.

As for Nehru being a democrat, yes he was and he ramained. AS for sacking of Kerala govt, he used the Constritutional provision, which is far more restrained than Indira's rash dismissals.

He was reluctant but relented later (to dismiss Namboo govt). What abt ur langoti BJP govt? They too did as well.

Nehru economic policies were influenced by the centralised Planning economy of the Soviet model. At the heart of his decision was the wellbeing of the country. Btw, US was not an economic superpower then.

In 2008 we can say so so was wrong but we have factor in the realities of 1950s to cooment on the policies of that era.

Re: # 210

oxymoronic

Majumdar,

Stalinists would have shown knowledgible Indians, who knew the religion they belonged to, the rapid strides Soviet Union had made. At that point of time, it did appear to be a grand success. The notion of everything owned by everyone would have appealed to the Indian bent of mine and that would not have needed distortion of facts...

Valid question from majumdar.

If Nehru is such a liberal democrat and not a Stalinist why did he dismiss a democratically elected communist government of Kerala ?.

(I know the above statement has a lot of weirdness associated with it..:-) )

Majumdar,

It is a fact that Vaishnavites and Shaivites could not tolerate each other. The patronizing kings were used as pawns by the proponents of the respective faiths to decimate the opponent.

I will refer you to some books soon. And please don't bring in the rightist hallucinations here...

(That is preposterous...LOL... )

Nope. That is Stalinism for you.

Regards

Nkg,

Man Booker is Man Booker, Nobel is Nobel.

Regards

Re: # 204

Majumdar Dada,

That is preposterous...LOL...

Re: # 199
Majumder...
VSN was awarded with Man Booker prize ( UK) as early as 1971. You can not bring islamic angle at that time ( UK, USA were big supporter of islamists in Kashmir and Pakistan)...

Vengy,

The Stalinists needed to discredit Hindooism so that Hindoos wud turn to Stalinism. That is why they had to show up Hindooism's faults - some true (casteism, misogyny) some false (sectarianism)

Regards

Nkg,

(Couple of drops of tears for Nirmala-didi.)

Yes.

(All Gandhians are not as bad/hyppocrete as Gandhi )

Yes, again.

Regards

Majumdar,

How would sectarian clash truths fecilitate Red-Hinduism?

Enough debate...
Couple of drops of tears for Nirmala-didi. She had done quite a good job to reduce hiostility without causing any trouble to anybody...All Gandhians are not as bad/hyppocrete as Gandhi

Vengy,

(Can you enlarge on the motives, of the Stalinist historians, to play up the sectarian discrimination?)

Yes, the Stalinists needed to discredit the one thing that prevented India from going Red- Hindooism.

Regards

VRV,

Henry Kissinger got the Nobel because he was a great human being, right?

And isnt it quite curious how VS Naipaul got the Nobel in 2001 a month or two after 9/11. Maybe it was just a coincidence?

Regards

Majumdar,

Can you enlarge on the motives, of the Stalinist historians, to play up the sectarian discrimination? To my knowledge they were more interested in propounding the efficacy of state owned/controlled businesses...

VRV,

(Nehru was a democrat)

Maybe you can explain the sacking of the Left govt in Kerala (1959?). Or the death of SP Mukherjee in govt custody.

(but not a Stalinist.)

Stalinist (almost) in economic policies.

(Stop pretending like a soft liberal.)

When did I say that I was a liberaloon? I am a (slightly) right of centre Hindoo. And the Sanghis with their mindless opposition to kanjarpana and cow slaughter are no more closer to my heart than the Gandhians are.

Regards

Pl dont say that Nobel Committe is like a govt office in Calcutta where u can influence a person or a group of ppl to award Nobel.

OMG, u r far dangerous than Kaalachakra.

If JNU is anathema then u'd find LSE to be equally loathesome. U dont kow how REDD the campus of LSE is. JNU's supposed to be modelled on JNU and it's just living to its creed.

Have pride and call urself a saffronite. Stop pretending like a soft liberal. Be true to urself.

Majumdar,

Nehru was a democrat but not a Stalinist. We in India use these terms very loosely - perhaps to sund like analysts.

Nkg,

I never said that AS lobbied for it. It is just that Nobel guys were looking at a welfare economist to cover their faces after the LTCM fiasco.

(And what is this Mohammed Asadi folk?)

He is none other than our beloved Hazrat Masadi of chowk.com fame.

Regards

Re: # 179
Majumder...
Noble in economics...
AS was brilliant student throughout his career. It is very ugly to say that, he had received that through lobbying.
And what is this Mohammed Asadi folk? Is it Mohammed Younis of BD. Yes,that guy was also engaged in poor man's economics. AS was nominated for the same prize couple of times more.
Nobel peace prizes are mostly political...

Nkg,

RK Hegde was not a Lingayat, he was a Brahmin but yes he was favoured by the Lingayats of North Karnataka.

The Hindoos did discriminate on caste grounds but rarely persecuted anyone on sectarian grounds. That is just a fiction the Nehruvian Stalinists from JNU (alleged historians) have pulled out from their own rears.

Regards

Re: # 189
Vengat...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulothunga_Chola_II
This tells different story. I am not opposing your view. In Karnataka, Vokkaliga ( Vaisnavaites) and Lingayats (Shiviites) are two dominant groups, which generally competes in all sphere of life ( famous DeveGowda Vs. R K Hegde or very recent HD Kumarswamy Vs. Yedurappa in politics). I have not seen violence between these communities or aware of any such history. I will investigate with couple of our collegues. They will be able to tell me the exact story. In fact, Tipu Ghazi/Sultan's dark side you will find from the local folk tells in Mandya and Shimoga region...

Shaivites persecuted Vaishnavites...Start from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramanuja

Re: # 186
Vengat...

Ram is not uniting factor for all Indians. In West Bengal, Assam & Orrisa, Ram is just a character from epic Ramayana. He might not be fictitious character and may be incarnation of Vishnu, but people don't connect him with divinity. Same goes the story with Tripura and other North Eastern states. Jammu, Punjab, Maharashtra and Konkan region. Ram is not main god of the people.
If you follow the path of Ram, it is UP, MP, AP, Karnataka and Tamilnadu. In these states you will find Ram temples.....

Majumder, Haris...
Ans: We have obligation towards Bangladeshi Hindus. That is OK, but then, Bangladesh had to take the obligation of WB moslems. We have taken obligation of Bangladeshi Hindus, poor Bangladeshi Muslims and we have WB moslems. Eastern districts (Nadia, 24 PGS, Malda...) have exceptionally high population density and this excessive population is killing WB...
Regarding ration card etc.. it is controlled in rural body level. Each political party is equally responsible for this. SUCI,CPI(M), Congress, TC...everybody needs muslim vote (fastest growing and only segment of vote in WB)....

Re: # 185

Nkg,

Then do we need Ram?

Guru, Vengat...

I am not aganist Gandhi. Every person is fallible. So was Gandhi. He knew public sentiment and so was able to transform elitist movement of Congress into the common masses . Both Congress and ML had problem with interaction with masses. ML had the weapon of Islam to connect to muslims. They have used it properly (Islam is in danger etc...) and it is no surprise that Pakistan is doomed into a islamic state rather than state for muslims....
On the other hand, Congress had no such tool. You can not say Hinduism is in danger (it does not work). So, Congress have to use Gandhi and his acting (single cloth, travelling in second class...) to bring commoners in their fold. It will not be outragious to say, Laloo is the politician who uses the mathod quite effectively.
Lalloo has created an effective image of an non-elite.
A 4000 year old civilisation does not need any "Father of Nation". It is against the ethos of Indian culture. This is kind of islamisation (prophet concept)....

Nkg,

I think you are right, apart from Jayakanthan we do not have many to boast in the literary world. I will even go as far to accept the rest of India's population is culturally and intellectually superior. What Tamilnadu has achieved and others have not is social amity and self respect. Though it was achieved at a great cost to the upper castes, I would still rate it as one of the best things to have happened to the world.

Even, at this point of time, the lower caste people of Tamilnadu has far more to catch up with the upper castes of the rest of India. What is remarkable is, the belief in them that they can achieve intellectual and cultural parity. They have proudly defended their language and they have not indulged in religious animosity. This, I believe, is where tehe rest of India has failed. Appropriate credit has to be given to the upper castes of Tamilnadu for contributing to the social revolution.

We will come to a point where we will have no more frustrated kids, of any caste.

#181 by nkg

BJP is for migration of Bengali Hindus into West Bengal.
Congress, TC and CPI(M) for everybody....

The question is not whether we should allow Bangladeshis, it is whether it is being done legally. The commies simply need votebanks and the illegal B'deshi migrants fulfil that need nicely.

I agree with Majumdar bhai that India has the moral obligation towards Hindus in Pakistan/B'desh.

Nkg,

(BJP is for migration of Bengali Hindus into West Bengal.)

BJP is right. If Hindoos are persecuted in Pak/B'desh we have a moral obligation to provide them shelter.

Regards

Re: # 178
Haris
It is not monopoly of CPI(M)...
BJP is for migration of Bengali Hindus into West Bengal.
Congress, TC and CPI(M) for everybody....

Re: # 176
Guru...
Gandhi died at ripe age (more than 75). How much more time you want to give a person?
Gandhi had the full support structure with him- Congress party with its cadres - Bajaj, Birla with their money. Still he is not icon. Majority of Indians follow different icon. Isn't it a matter of shame for a "father of nation"?
Compare the life of Swami Vivekananda. How within 39 years of life span, he had created an instution ( R K Mission), which without any Govt. support or support from business class flourished...

Nkg,

I for one don't want to kick out any INDIAN Muslim from India. But there was no need to invite Bong Muslims who believe in the TNT to settle down in India.

Re: Nobels

RNT got the Nobel 'cos the Brits wanted to mollify the Bongs from leading the freedom movement. The Bongs were pretty p***ed off becuase of the partition business.

AS- Remember the year before AS got the Nobel, the Nobel had gone to the guys who formulated the Black Scholes equation for derivative pricing. These gentlemen were also bosses of a company called LTCM which went bust shortly after they got the Nobel. The Nobel people ended up with lots of eggs on their faces and to cover up their shame were looking for someone who writes on development economics. Now no one writes on development economics except muddle headed folks like Amartya Sen and Mohammed Asadi and given the quality of competition, it was no wonder that Amartya Sen won out.

I hope I have explained.

Regards

#177 by nkg

Yaar I saw a documentary series on NDTV which showed how local authorities from the CPI prepared voter and ration cards for infiltrators and helped them settle so that they could bolster their votebanks.

Anyways, I don't what to label Bongs wholesale as you have done to Tamilians. I've met Majumdar bhai and he's a gem of a person.

Kalam, Haris, Majumder...
Ans: This 2.5 crore people you have to receive due to the following reason...
1. The Hindus of Bangladesh had committed no crime such that they have to suffer in a moslem country. So, they have to be rehabilitated in India.

2. Bengalis are not barbaric like moslems, such that they will kick out moslems from West Bengal. This is our nature. I think, will you kick out minority mislims into some other country.

3. The ration card/voter Id card is controlled by loac bodies in West Bengal. The Bangladeshi moslems come to India in the pretext of health and other purpose and settle in muslim majority areas. The local muslims in border districts help migrate Bangladeshi muslims. It is not in the hand of us ( non Bangladeshi Hindus living in West bengal)...
BSF is very corrupt. Pay 200INR, they will allow Bangladeshis to enter India without any document. After that, how will you identify whether the person is Indian or Bangladeshi and how will you deport him/her? It is very difficult situation...

I have nothing against JJ or APJ. I dislike the hype created around APJ.

RNT had written national anthem of two nations. It is no mean feat. AS was nominated for Noble couple of times. I am not aware of any political connection, which helped them winning the noble.Majumder please elaborate...

Re: # 163: Nkg,

Genius of Gandhi is not in new ideas or the wordsmithy about them in debating clubs like other his contemparies. He put them in practice like Ramkrishna became Muslim, Christians etc for a while. Other important is his ability to take simple ideas to the unwashed masses,eg cleaning latrines by higher castes. I wish he also had started working on Sulabh Sauchalaya, and so no one has to carry night soil. As Harish said if he had little more time to live he would have done that as well.

My dear student nkg,

See this senility made me forget, what I wanted to tell you...Agni could not have pin-pointedly hit a bus full of Agri students, you know, but Amma, you know, can do that more precisely...

Thats the reason out wise Tamil population always prostrate before Amma. You are insulting our Amma, when you say she had to support her family. You know her dad was a doctor with Mysore Maharaja and her mother a musician WITH Mysore Maharaja too.

My dear student nkg(even if you were not under my tutelage, you are learning isn't it),

I know you are surprised, why this old man without any achievement speaks to me. I will tell you my boy. I am not feeling bad when you say I am an underachiever, I feel bad only when you put me and JJ madam on the same plane.

How I can be equal to that Madam, my student dear...Afterall I just fine tune some missile navigation systems, which other scientist had done by then...You know this Bhagavatham and Thevaram has made me like this.

You know there is nothing big about Agni when you compare to Amma's potentialities. The other day my dear student nkg, when Amma JJ got convicted by the court, a bus full of Agri graduates were on their educational tour. Amma's devotees burnt the bus and three beautiful children (girls) were charred. You see how powerful Amma is...If I had done this deed, it would have caused so much pain. But see Amma, she is as beautiful as she was before burning the bus...She still smiles...That is the mark of a good leader , my dear student.

When you say Tamils are insane, why these insane Tamils are getting angry at you. In the name of Bhagwan and my Vision 2020 these guys should stop hurting you...

God bless you my student...When you are free I can teacj you Veenai too...:)

Nkg,

The only Nobel laureates from Bongland, RNT and AS got for Lit and Eco and as we know very well these are politically motivated. The two Tams who got it, CVR and Chandrashekhar got it for Physics which are not awarded on a biassed manner.

Why is WB's population a disadvantage. More people means more economic units (producers and consumers) provided these people are not lazy fools like Bongs.

Regards

#170 by nkg

With 2.5 crore ( at least) aditional population for a small state like Bengal, it is doing quite good.

And who welcomes those 2.5 crore additional people, giving them voter ID and ration cards? The very commies you elect term after term. Why blame them?

#170 by nkg

Only living Noble Laurate from India is a Bengali :-)

When Sir CV Raman was alive, he was the only living Nobel Laureate from India and a Tamilian too. What does it prove?

I bet if Prof Amartya Sen had remained in Bengal, he would have turned out to be another chain-smoking commie loving gentleman :-)

Majumder, Haris...
Ans: Way ahead of Bongs!!! With 2.5 crore ( at least) aditional population for a small state like Bengal, it is doing quite good.


Only living Noble Laurate from India is a Bengali :-)

#164 by majumdar

Maybe he would have accepted that the TNT was right!

Gandhi's principle was that all human beings were one. TNT being such a divisve ideology would never have found favor with him.

#166 by nkg

Anyhow, regarding politics and entertainment, Tamils are totally crazy,insane. I have not seen such political scenario in any other state ( UP is trying to emulate it- Mayawati Vs. Mullayam similar to JJ Vs. Karuna)....

The crazy and insane Tamils are way ahead of the brilliant Bongs in every respect, despite the antics of JJ and Karuna, while the chain-smoking bhadralok lag far behind the Khushboo-worshipping crazy Tamils. Are the brilliant Bongs so blind that they cannot see what is good for them and continue to be enamored by the Commies when even China is discarding Communism slowly?

Nkg,

(Tamils are totally crazy,insane.)

These crazy Maddus also have some of the best social and economic indices in the country. And some of the best brains too.

Regards

Re: # 159
VRV...

"Jayalalithaa is not a school drop-out. She studied up to 10th and discontinued studies as she had to support the family. Secondly, she stood state-first in 10th class (that's what I read).

Finally she's not supposed to use the honorific title Dr in her name (cos it's an honorary Doctorate). Same goes for APJ Abdul Kalam. Tho he had some inventions in his name the Dr he had is an honorary title and they are not suposed to use them regularly."

APJ is not great scientist. He is very good materials engineer; thats all. RSS made him hero. He has no basic contribution towards science. Almost all DRDO/ISRO projects are hired technology from Russia. Now, we are colaborating with Israel & France to get better defence technology (in fact China does the same)....
J J is good leader. Anyhow, regarding politics and entertainment, Tamils are totally crazy,insane. I have not seen such political scenario in any other state ( UP is trying to emulate it- Mayawati Vs. Mullayam similar to JJ Vs. Karuna)....

Re: # 160
VRV...
History instills confidence within a nation. From 6th/7th standard onwards, we learn mathematics for the sake of learning and for the students it is an alien subject. At least the students should know, it is our own. It may attract more love for the subject.
A nation with 1Bn people is placed 25th in mathematics olympiad. Though we are doing quite well in Chess in recent times, that can not be said about mathematics or basic sciences. Grassroot level, the ownership or love is missing.

Harishbhai,

(The man was constantly learning and evolving and would have wanted India to do the same and not remain stuck in a time warp. )

Maybe he would have accepted that the TNT was right!

Regards

To VRV,Guru, Ekalavya...

I was never part of RSS or any other organisation. I visited Belur Mutt once. I am aware of the works of R K Mission and admire it.

I have stated some facts. You counter that with facts. There is no point being emotional. Gandhi was

Regarding ancient mathematics, I was amazed to see how simple math can be represented using simple lines....

Please tell me one of the Gandhis social idea, which was totally unknown to India.

#156 by majumdar

Similarly of course India has largely discarded MKG's legacy (mercifully) Even Harishbhai and VRV dont want India to follow Gandhi's footsteps.

Majumdar bhai if Gandhi were alive today, he would be most disappointed if we still carried on with his ideals 60 years later. The man was constantly learning and evolving and would have wanted India to do the same and not remain stuck in a time warp.

My, what a board! :) :)

No matter how cynical and crabby one gets, seeing Indians still retain respect for Gandhi makes one happy.

Way to go, vrv, vengat bhai, harish and others of the Light Brigade. You beat back the cynical 'old' (well, majumdada and masanamuthu are young) gang of nkg, majumdada, masanamuthu, santani, and kaal! (Thumbs up icon here)

NKG,

What shud say now? To me u r a soft-RSS guy. Lemme tell u one thing. I too went to RSS for over one year in my late teens. So u need not educate me on RSS' view of Bharat.

Vedic Mathematics :

The video is a bit funnier. Tho Vedic ppl were the inventors of Zero concept, the mathematics they knew was no more than additions, subtractions and multiplications (?). There're no complex mathematics involved. If Varaha Mihira, Arya Bhatta, Bhaskara had some contributions it's becos they worked on mathematics & NOT becos they worshipped some stones.

Tho Vedic ppl are ahead of the times then, the same stuff cant be used now for the times we live now. World has moved a long way & we need to catch up with the rest of the world. It's better not to be stuck in the olden times.

++

Gandhi's social ideas :

Tho some ideas are outdated and some are refashioned to the modern times (Gandhi era) but his work of uniting Indians regardless of caste distinctions is unmatched. He inspired millions of Indians who worked to erase caste rigidities.

Gandhi was a faddist but he shone like a star during the final stages of Indian freedom struggle. Ur langoti RSS effers are not worth a mention as far as freedom struggle is concerned.

#143 Posted by majumdar on May 7, 2008 5:14:42 am

Majumdarda,

It's an outburst and I apologise for that.

Venkat,

Jayalalithaa is not a school drop-out. She studied up to 10th and discontinued studies as she had to support the family. Secondly, she stood state-first in 10th class (that's what I read).

Finally she's not supposed to use the honorific title Dr in her name (cos it's an honorary Doctorate). Same goes for APJ Abdul Kalam. Tho he had some inventions in his name the Dr he had is an honorary title and they are not suposed to use them regularly.

However we can exclude Kalam as he's some inventions in his name but Jaya invented none but bus numbers like 1J and 1JJ in Madras.

Sanatani,

If you are a product of a single father you would not have abused somebody behind a nick and the net.

It speaks a lot about your family and your women. You probably were excreted in the loo through a rectum.

Re: # 156

Majumdar,

I believe its time we stopped believing in the 'Patriotism' business. Visit the nearest government hospital, you will see how many are in a queue for a obsolete dialysis machine. We are killing our own people in the name of defence spending.

Mohar bhai,

You are right. What matters today is what today's Injuns/Pakis want. Pakis shud be free to have an Islamist society if that is what they want irrespective of what MAJ (pbuh) wanted. Similarly of course India has largely discarded MKG's legacy (mercifully) Even Harishbhai and VRV dont want India to follow Gandhi's footsteps.

Sanatani shaib,

Kindly refrain from abusing Vengy sahib, he is a patriotic Injun.

(Thanks to J Man we have a clear Hindu state albeit one where we will lose Asom, North East and Bengal due to infiltration .)

Yes. But MAJ cannot bebalmed for Hindoos own foolishness.

Regards

Re: # 151:

Even Godsay would not say what you said. Gandhi was higher consciousness. His contribution to civilizational India is immense. Mind also that he was life long learner. He would have learned why all our gods and goddesses carry weapons by 49-52 because of Hyderabad, J&K and Tibet.

The man was honest, selfless and acted upon his convictions. Lot of leaders get following on negatives such as fear mongering, Islam Khatre Mein Hai, how many get followers for life for positives such as non-violence, organic living etc. He created real men and women. google on Mrudula Sarabhai. There is link in one of the post on Power of Faith.

Gandhi was Indianization of Marxism to some extent. Commies feared him more than Kangress.

Present day India could have played little game of good cop and bad cop to transform Islam of Indian muslims into Indian Islam. Gandhi would have played well the role of good cop.

Islam has to be Hinduized for the survival of the humanity. West is also coming to the same understanding. End of re-legions is ineviatble.

It is so beautiful that the 1st 3 letters of your name are the same as Shri J Sahib

ROFL..

Sanatani, looks like we are getting into a 'fetish' on Jinnah. The more I learn about the pre-partition conditions the more I become grateful to Jinnah. He is really the saviour.

Thankfully, Nehru/Patel/Jinnah deserve our Kudos.
we should start a movement for awarding "Bharat Ratna" to Jinnah.

Maj Bhai,

It is so beautiful that the 1st 3 letters of your name are the same as Shri J Sahib.

This Mo fkr Vengatraman seems to be a commie thug parroting commie nonsense like Shaivites killing Vaishnavaites

They have no proof of the same and yet parrot these innanities.

Thanks to J Man we have a clear Hindu state albeit one where we will lose Asom, North East and Bengal due to infiltration.

Regards
Sanatani

Re: # 131
Vengat...

"A few days back I saw a news item on a self-sustaining British village. Looks like Gandhi was not only ahead of his contemporaries but our contemporaries too."

Ans: Self sustaining,village based society was in India for long time. Indian society was very much harmonius with nature. Now, with large amount of population, we may not be able to sustain with the same model...

Re: # 140
VRV...
Ans: I don't like Gandhi. That does not imply that, I like Jinnah...

"Gandhi's political, economic ideas are not feasible but social ideas are very much necessary else there'd be more caste fissures that're comparable with Hindu-Muslim detente."

What new social idea Gandhi had brought into India, and what was the repercussion on Indian society?
The "ahimsa" and "class/caste equality" was part and parcell of Jains and Budhdhists and later Vaisnav movement followed that...
Gandhis "brahmacharya" was really funny. He was not born Brahmachari. He fathered so many children ( I can not prove Harilal etc.. were his biological son). And suddenly he decided to be brahmachari!!!
Ramakrishna Paramhansa had shown, how you can be brahmachari as well as living a perfect social life.If "brahmacharya" does not come to you naturally, then practise yoga (was it Sukracharya, who pioneered it?)...
Entire life of Gandhi is full of hypocracy and nice acting. That is the reason, though GOI pushes Gandhi to the largest extent (Father of Nation), it bears no meaning in common Indian mind. In each region, the religious leaders and social reformers get more respect than Gandhi...

Amogst Dalits - B R Ambedkar, Budhdha
Amongst Bongs - Ramakrishna/Vivekananda, Subhash Bose
Amongst Gujjus - Sardar Patel and Swaminarayan organisation and RSS is more acceptable
Amongst Maharastrians - Shivaji
Amongst South Indians- Perriyer, Sir MV...

R K Mission,Mata Amritanandamayee, Swaminarayan movement have more followers than the Ashramas in the name of Gandhi. That tells the truth....

Re: # 137
VRV...
The list of things u gave are good but do u think that Indian schools dont teach abt the great ppl u mentioned? If so then u are not educated in India. If u think that the works of those ppl ALONE be taught then u better live in a cocoon.

Ans: You are not correct. During my 10th standard, as part of math, I was learning the Sridhar Upapadya ( Quadratic Equation). I was not knowing who this Sridhar Acharya was and assumed that he must be some one from Calcutta University (for people of our village Cal University was best institution in India and may be in Asia (in mid 80s)). I have learned about him from internet, later.
History of science section (6th and 7th standard) do not cover Indian mathematicians or scientists of ancient age. The school environment is such that, math is an alien subject imported from West.

How amazing indian Mathematics was in ancient time check this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZKOPKIHsrc

Indian schools teach more about Hyppocrete than Charak or Sushruta. In West Bengal, the Govt. is trying to kill Sanskrit by not filling the vacancies in school level. This will eventually dry up the supply of students in higher education and then we will turn into another Pakistan. History of Pakistan starts with Arab invastion and history of India will start with Congress, Mohandas Gandhi and to appease moslems, Mughal and mediaval period will be there with distorted version.
India govt. wastes money on urdooo and madressah education and the present Govt. is trying to ban Yoga and Saraswati Vandana from schools. Govt. funds is used to breed more terrorist/islamist and ignore the health aspect of the student...

You will feel actual India in South (including Orissa). May be it is true in North East also (Assam, Nagaland, Manipur etc...).
Each state has their own culture, rich with style of painting, dance form, music and beautiful architecture. The women folk are liberated. You will not find veil system there.

Remixed IGiri Nandini...enjoy in your pastime...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP8lJPp-N94&feature=related

Re: # 138 dada

This is NOT about gandhi and jinnah - this is about people... does not matter what j-man said - pakis wanted an islamic dar-ul-islam and so they should have that, they have no reason to follow so-called secular intentions that J-man may or may not have...

On the otherhand - people of india in general and hinuds in particular have always wanted a "secular" polity, which what they should have... regardless of what G-man may ahve said...

You are the one who puts too much focus on long dead personalities... you and YLH... let it go...

#145 by akcheema

May be we are talking about the 'working' class of the colonials?

Again no idea Cheema bhai, but I guess Muslims then were more rigid than they are now about such things.

akcheema,

A politician doesnt have to know anything and still suck. You know we have a fulllly endowed opposition leader Jayalalithaa, in Tamilnadu, who regularly bark inanities.

1. She would parrot how dangerous the India - US nuclear deal going to be without really knowing what the deal is all about

2. She would pose before TV cameras on her meeting with Ernst&Young consultants .....LOL

3. The one that takes the cake is how great she was in her academics. Though I dont give much importance to academic credential, this lady claims to super achievements when she is just a school dropout.

4. When speaks about Tamil culture and chastity, it is difficult saab to go og....

Jinnah was miles ahead of the contemporary politicians we have now.....Shameful existence we have now...

#143 by majumdar

MAJ (pbuh) espoused the separatist path very very late only in 1930s, he had been active in political life long before that.

Majumdar bhai, how does that change the fact that he used blatantly communal and provocative rhetoric and just one dishonest speech was not going to undo the legacy of hate he spawned?

Re: # 144; harish

I don't like ham sandwiches; so working class.

May be we are talking about the 'working' class of the colonials?

Khuda Hafiz

#142 by akcheema

I have no idea Cheema bhai, but it was perhaps a ploy to buttress his Muslim credentials as at that time he wasn't very popular with the ordinary Muslim because of his fondness for Ham sandwiches and whisky.

VRV,

(I'd shoot all these mothefukkas (Godseites) in one go )

Spoken like a true Gandhian!!!

Harishbhai,

MAJ (pbuh) espoused the separatist path very very late only in 1930s, he had been active in political life long before that.

Regards

Re: # 141; harish
"Jinnah raised slogans such as "Islam khatre mein", "Koran contains the complete way of life" etc"

Excuse the French but what the f... did Jinah know about what was written in the Koran!

#138 by majumdar

And Pakistanis disavow Jinnah's legacy including the principles laid down in his 8/11 speech.

All his life (well at least after he joined the ML, before which he was an insignificant non-practising Muslim (at least for the Muslim masses)) Jinnah raised slogans such as "Islam khatre mein", "Koran contains the complete way of life" etc. aimed at inciting Muslim masses, and to expect one hollow speech to guide Pakistan's future is like sowing a Pudine ka beej and expecting a Banyan tree to sprout out of it.

Majumdar,

That makes sense but the quid pro quo is quite funny. U dont attack Gandhi but u Godseites bat for Jinnah??????

I love peace but given a choice I'd shoot all these mothefukkas (Godseites) in one go as a one-off measure.

++

Gandhi's political, economic ideas are not feasible but social ideas are very much necessary else there'd be more caste fissures that're comparable with Hindu-Muslim detente.

Majumdar,

"Also you guys admit that although MKG was a great man, his ideas should not be followed either by us in our personal life or by India politically, socially or economically."

We don't have to. When people of your ideas get to rule, do whatever you want. Till then remember you live in a democracy where the numbers count...

VRV,

Let us make peace. We, the Godseites (sic) give up attacking MKG and you guys give up attacking MAJ (pbuh). Also you guys admit that although MKG was a great man, his ideas should not be followed either by us in our personal life or by India politically, socially or economically. And Pakistanis disavow Jinnah's legacy including the principles laid down in his 8/11 speech.

Regards

#133 Posted by guru on May 7, 2008 4:03:39 am
guru,

Country is greater than individuals. I agree but talking abt a Mahatma (abt his murder) is abhorrant.

The list of things u gave are good but do u think that Indian schools dont teach abt the great ppl u mentioned? If so then u are not educated in India. If u think that the works of those ppl ALONE be taught then u better live in a cocoon.

What Greece did and doing is to the detriment of that great civilisation there. The best brains of Greece find jobs elsewhere leaving Greece for the teaching of its greats sons of the bygone era. India want to emulate Greece i.e learning abt India's great past???

I am gald that u proved urself right here.

"Indian civilization is still under gulami and probably more so, as prophet Munnanhai (PBUH) says "Des Apana Hogaya Par Log Paraye Hogaye."

Few sound bytes for right perspective:

"In the modern planetary situation, Eastern and Western 'cultures' can no longer meet one another as equal partners. They meet in a westernized world, under conditions shaped by western ways of thinking."
--- W. Halbfass"

(u neened a gora to prove ur point. SO much for love for native wisdom:( )

++

Whatever said and done Gandhi was the key figure in India's independence. His ideas of cohabitation were pulverised by Islamists then but now the Hindutva brigade wants his name earsed from India is something I find unpalatable. His ideas are stupid as well as sublime but he never had a charter for India. He had a vision, a vision of goodwill and good people.

Guru,

You were against us participating on Chowk. I thought you would never come back :)

Re: # 134:Majnu,

dont have much time ... religion and dharma are like chalk and cheese. Pl read my past posts filtering out gali-galoch and anger. dharma is rooted in the land you stand on and enjoying life you are living.

If you truly mind your regards then you would read before spit out ...

Guru,

Please do not despair. A (Islamic) version of the ideology that you worship is fast gaining currency in NWFP under the able guidance of Mahatma Baitullah Mehsud.

Regards

Nkg,

Godse fool aborted India's true emancipation. Pl dont go by the caricature of Gandhi. If this Gandhi phenomenon had ran its course for another 15-20 years then following would have happened:
1. Dissolution of congress and birth of true democracy.
2. JN and other job seekers who were colonized in mind would not implemented alien concept of "secularism." Dharma is secular by design.
3. More integration of Dharmic folks ie uprooting of casticism.
4. Babu license raj would not have taken birth.
5. Citizens with more sense of belonging and social responsibility. Less corruption.
6. Franchise based on character and not on age. Caste politics would not have taken birth.
7. Environmentally benign real long term growth instead of fake green revolutions.
8. More emphasis on primary and secondary education and that too in vernacular medium. We would know more about our Pannini, Patanjali, Buddha, Nagarjuna, Dharmakirti, Bharthrhari, Shankara, Abhinavgupta, Bharata Muni, Gangesh, Kalidasa, Aryabhata and dozens of other great classical thinkers produced by India.

9 Technology and science growing from the grass roots. Now too late in the game, west will go on printing more $/Eu and we will go on doing testing, maintaining and nominally improving the technological products, the ownership will be always in their hand in forseeable future.

Indian civilization is still under gulami and probably more so, as prophet Munnanhai (PBUH) says "Des Apana Hogaya Par Log Paraye Hogaye."

Few sound bytes for right perspective:

"In the modern planetary situation, Eastern and Western 'cultures' can no longer meet one another as equal partners. They meet in a westernized world, under conditions shaped by western ways of thinking." --- W. Halbfass

Spiritual and intellectual svaraj (self-rule) is as fundamental to the long term success of a civilization as is svaraj in the political and financial areas.

Hardware is civilizational India but the OS is western. Cut and paste constitution is not Indian. far away from RamRajya so every one is breaking the law ...people have dont feel ownership of the law.

While India supplies information technology, biotechnology, corporate management, medical and other professionals to the most prestigious organizations of the world, it is unable to supply world-class scholars in the disciplines of its own traditions.

The most comprehensive and challenging knowledge representation systems available outside the West are contained in the Indian Classics but we are on the verge of losing it, because of foolish secularism of JN.

India even the non-aligned JN's India inspite of its economic growth is fast falling into the ghetto of South Asia.

They are talking End of History hope they start talking End of Religion, an Abrahmic exploitive concept.

Towards the end Gandhi had become the only tablet which could trnasform the western mind from inside. Godses of this world could have used it for his and Golwalkar's goal which were not that different from Gandhi's.
...Sorry I do not have time to elaborate or discuss, but I could not help this one. Young folks please don't murder Gandhi over and over again.

Vengy,

One swallow does not make a summer. But I am surprised that his homeland (India) has not disarmed itself volunatrily and turned the other cheek to Paki karnameys in Kashmir, Kargil etc.

Regards

Majumdar,

A few days back I saw a news item on a self-sustaining British village. Looks like Gandhi was not only ahead of his contemporaries but our contemporaries too.

It was on CNN-IBN.

Vengy,

Look. We all admire his ideals but none of us wants India to adopt his ideals unilaterally. That about sums up MKG's greatness!!!

Regards

Re: # 128

Majumdar,

Nobody cares if Gandhi was foolish or intelligent. What endears him is his ideals, which brings out the innate goodness of human beings and which reassures us about the goodness of being good.

Have we ever analysed the foolishness of Ram and Lakshman in running behind a deer or Yudhistra's acceptance to sit for a game of gambling?

VRV,

(not going to take away the greatness of Gandhi.)

MKG is a great man. And yet his followers will never advocate that India follow "Gandhian ideals" (unilaterally that is).

Beej bhaiyya,

(Jinnah tapped into it rather well and benefited in attaining his ambitions.)

So basically what you are saying is that Muslims are basically fundamentalist and separatist people by nature and that MAJ (pbuh) merely tapped into their basic tendency. In that case would it not be fair to admit that:

Pakistan was created by Muslim's innate fundamentalism and that MAJ (pbuh) was merely a unwitting agent of it.
MKG was a fool to have tried to represent both Hindoos and Muslims and that it wud have been better to have just defended the Hindoo's interest.

Regards

Re: # 124

Majumdar,

Muslims know that their God is different from Ram. Afterall almost all of the IMs know Ramayana upside down...:)

Majumdar,

Whatever u try to dominate the board here is not going to take away the greatness of Gandhi.

Gandhi is Gandhi. What I get from ur michief is that Gandhi was not khattarpanthi enuff.

Just in short…

(5) Anybody who thinks that Gandhiji believed in state controlled religion is either deluded or engaged in the worst form of deception. The term “Ram Rajya” was used symbolically, and only symbolically.

(6) Support for the Khilafat movement was VERY prevalent among large sections of Indian Muslims around the First World War, well before Gandhiji became active in INDIAN politics. Gandhiji did not bring it about. His intent in supporting it – perhaps misguided – was the notion that it would generate goodwill among Mussalmans and Hindus and coalesce into one force. To an extent it did happen – during 1919-1922, Indians were very united although a point has been made by historian Lawrence James that many of the Muslims did not believe in Gandhiji’s techniques and were only interested in using his “vehicle” of the agitation. Anybody who preaches the canard that it was Gandhiji’s support for the Khilafat movement which caused Muslim fundamentalism in India is being dishonest – the roots of that characteristic are far deeper and longer in history. The fundamentalism was there to be tapped – Jinnah tapped into it rather well and benefited in attaining his ambitions.

More in the evening, if I can get around to it.

Both concepts mean rule of God and I dont think the Islamists have ever claimed that they intend to oppress the minorities and women (what happens in actual practise is a different matter altogether!!!). We feel threatened by Talibs but I am sure Muslims dont feel comfortable when they hear the word Ram Rajya either.

Regards