Still Looking!

Re: # 23 LOL...thanks for sharing this, vanguard...you could put your experiences down in a piece, you know. I can imagine it to be a very interesting read. :)
TS

When I had completed my studies in UK, a family friend decided to introduce me to a prospect in London. Since I was inclined religiously as well as academically, they said that the girl has done Masters in Mathematical Sciences and wears a Niqab.

They asked me to be interactive and talk a lot with a girl. At their place, they had also invited girl's mother (also wearing a niqab) and her grandmother whereas I was there with my auntie.

I asked her a few questions but since it was her first time I believe, she felt shy and answered in monosyllables. Then I cracked a joke and everybody laughed. I thought in my head "Hansi to phansi" (Yes! This is how we guys think!)

Anyways, we werent making any progress despite the girl's grandmother egging her on. So seeing the religious bent, I asked the girl "Dua-e-Qunoot suna dain". The grandmother suddenly came to her defence and said in flawless English "My grand daughter prays five times a day. I'd rather you recite the dua and she checks it". I replied "Mein to teen dafa Qul Huallaho Ahad (surat Ikhlas) parhta hoon".

Needless to mention it didn't work out. :)

Ras...thanks. Yes, fictional...and no, no sequel planned so far...though more satire likely to follow!
TS

This was a well written (fictional?) article.

Is there a part 2 coming?

Ras

Dear Readers...thank you so much for taking out the time to give your valuable feedback. I truly appreciate the effort.

About the piece...firstly, I have often been accused of writing about myself in my pieces! What can I say...it must be my convincing communication skills! Seriously, though...I'd like to edtablish once for all that I'm a social observer and commentator and every write-up that I do is NOT my own story.

Re #1...jayp, violence aginst women exists in societies across the globe and is a reality none can ignore. However, this piece only meant to point out one aspect of the emotional and psychological torture women go through in the middle/upper-middle section of our society. It might seem trivial as compared to the issues you have mentioned, but worth the mention nonetheless, I believe.

Re #2...zeemax, thanks for your comments. I have pointed out some unpleasant aspects of arranged marriages. It is not uncommon to use the technique of exaggeration in satirical write-ups.

Re #3...vanguard, that's a thought! Thanks for pointing it out. The narrator happens tp be a woman, hence the female perspective. Perhaps you could enlighten us about the male take on this issue?

Re #5...treetop, thanks, but NO THANKS.

Re #6...Minhaj, thanks for the kind words. I'm pleased to know you enjoyed reading the piece.

Regarding your suggestion for dialogue, if you've read any of my previous articles you'll know that's how I write anyway. This piece was originally published in 'You' Women's magazine. Since newspapers have a thing about space conservation, I had to compress the lines to suit their concerns. And then I forgot to revert it to original formatting for chowk!

Thanks for the reassurances too...awfully kind of you...but I do enjoy the responses I get as they provide me invaluable insight into diverse perspectives.

Re #7...Abee, thanks for the comments. I'm glad it made you smile despite your other concern.

Marriage, as an institution, has been much criticised in all societies. Things are changing for women here as they seek for themselves roles of thinking, feeling human beings keeping intellectual concerns closer to their heart. Relationships are very tricky, and require much understanding and compromise to create a balance accaptable to both parties concerned - or individual temperaments decide which way the balance tips.

Re #10...banneditem, I think it is unfair to force anyone to choose between wife and mother, or any other such relationship. There can be no right answer in such a situation. Each has his/her own place, and the poor guy is bound to err no matter what he decides.

Re #11...emancipation, thanks for your comments. I don't believe marriage is a failed intitution at all. The purpose of this piece was to let men see that women can be their intellectual equals and by virtue of that, better partners in life. They must not be seen only as objects of desire, but as individuals with whom they can have satisfying intellectual and emotional bondage on an equal-partnership level, rather than dominant-submissive basis.

Re #12...subroto, I'm glad you enjoyed the piece. Thanks for letting me know.

Re # 13...akcheema, thank you so much for your remarks. These lines represent the desires of many young women who seek intellectually stimulating and emotionally satisfying relationships while not wanting to compromise personal space.

Re # 14...TehsinA, thanks for your suggestion. I think women are quite capable of setting their priorities in the right order. Perhaps they have shifted their sights from 'marriage' as their ultimate aim in life?

Re # 16...Nikhat, thanks for your kind remarks and generous praise. I appreciate your insight and understanding of the basic idea behind the article.

Re #18...scout-new, thanks for your comments. It's very much a cultural issue, and yes, most girls do go through it. All these girls ask is to be judged not on the basis of their physical appearance or domestic skills but rather as individuals with priorities of their own in life.

Re #19...Leadenwinter, I'm sorry you didn't think much of the piece. It's all about perspectives...you're entirely entitled to your own!

Arranged marriages are a part of our culture.They are not a bad way of introducing prospective couples given the cultural environment of gender seggregation, unless one of the parties, or both, are being forced into the arrangement - which is not the case in my write-up at all.
"As you condone arranged marriages, thus this "person" element of you is such that it acknowledges itself second to the commodities sought to be acquired by your prospective in-laws."

If the 'person' element in the central character of my piece acknowledged itself second to the commodities saught, she would accept the proposals.

Perhaps you have missed my point...or I have not managed to convey it effectively?

"What from your petty bourgeoisie perspective seems the reason to write a somewhat amusing article, is the basis for slavery, stove-deaths, honour killings and rapes amongst the other untold suffering of millions of Pakistani women."

Would you care to clarify this point for the sake of discussion? Surely, you don't think the root of all evil is 'arranged marriage'?


TS

You seem on one hand to condone arranged marriages, in essence vindicating the notion that your virginity, labour and child-bearing capabilities are commodities beyond your own jurisdiction, which for all intents and purposes summate you for the purposes of marriage, yet at the same time you seem to want your "person" to be appreciated by the other parties to the transaction in question.

As you condone arranged marriages, thus this "person" element of you is such that it acknowledges itself second to the commodities sought to be acquired by your prospective in-laws, I don't think therefore there remains much to be appreciated.

What from your petty bourgeoisie perspective seems the reason to write a somewhat amusing article, is the basis for slavery, stove-deaths, honour killings and rapes amongst the other untold suffering of millions of Pakistani women.

This is all in very poor taste.

cute article, i think all desi girls go through this at some point in their lives

Ahmedmadani Saab,

We need your valuable thoughts here...See the temerity of this girl, rejecting guys on all pretexts...

Re: # 6 I agree with you. It is nice story. If it is a fiction then characters are very real. A very honest depiction in a lighter way. Very well written Tahera!

Certainly every ambitious working woman belonging to upper/middle middle class of our society could relate to this sad situation. The scrupulous search of parents to find the right guy (for their not so young/beautiful daughter) in a wrong way, trying to tie a new knot without breaking previous rusty chains of social norms is beautifully narrated.the way you handled it is really commendable.

I think humour/satire is a great tool for addressing such complex social issues. We all have suffered "drawing room torture parade" infront of 'rishta seeking army of aunties' and those who have undergone it could easily identify with the pain, frustration narrator is going through.
Well done Girl!

Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 14; Tehsin

hmmm....there may be some truth in this; however, that is what being young is about I think, experimentation and all that

Honey! Just don’t wait too long. All these shenanigans are amusing but like the Japanese say, I paraphrase, “its no fun eating Christmas cake after Christmas”.

" I just know God didn’t give me a head to think with, for nothing! I have the same dreams any man has (well, almost!). I do so want an adoring guy of course - like any gal - but why can’t I aspire to find one who supports my aspirations and won’t feel insecure because I can use my brains? Is that too much to ask?
Surely there’s someone out there for me… I’m still looking!!!!"

Well written Tahera; I am sure that someone would be a lucky man to know you and foolish if he tries to 'alter' your aspirations.

I wish you well in your future.

I liked it. Pleasant, well written and brought a smile to my face.

your constantly contradicting yourself Tahera.either you want to get married or you dont.there really is no middle way.either you love your freedom and do not want to give it up or you will succumb to societies perception of the so called "still single people" and the whole "if you still not married there must be something wrong with you" syndrome.marriage as has been proven is a failed institution and stops women from reaching their true potential in life.however best of luck with your search:)

The following question must be asked by girls/women planning on getting married (love or arranged)

Q: Man is in a boat with his wife and mother, boat has a hole. Whom should he save.
A: If he answers "mamma", tell him to come back after cutting his embilical cord that he is still clinging onto.

To back it up offer the following verse from the bible.

Mark 10:6-7
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife.


Good luck to all the women/girls may your marriages be sucessful and exemplary.

Nice story Tahera. Adds a lighter side to a very disturbing methodology! I wonder though, how many girls later regret this critical outlook when people stop appearing at their doorstep. just an afterthought! I wonder how many of the selected ones live happily ever after. everything happens behind closed doors and in our culture doors are closed on the instituition of marriage from day one.
Well written, made me smile despite my "poetic concerns"

Regards
A

Nice story Tahera. Adds a lighter side to a very disturbing methodology! I wonder though, how many girls later regret this critical outlook when people stop appearing at their doorstep. just an afterthought! I wonder how many of the selected ones live happily ever after. everything happens behind closed doors and in our culture doors are closed on the instituition of marriage from day one.
Well written, made me smile despite my "poetic concerns"

Regards
A

Nice story Tahera. Adds a lighter side to a very disturbing methodology! I wonder though, how many girls later regret this critical outlook when people stop appearing at their doorstep. just an afterthought! I wonder how many of the selected ones live happily ever after. everything happens behind closed doors and in our culture doors are closed on the instituition of marriage from day one.
Well written, made me smile despite my "poetic concerns"

Regards
A

I enjoyed your story telling. You have a lively funny voice. I like the fact that there is an unhappily married woman at the office who has captured the attention of Raamis. And it seems that the narrator, connects with Raamis so... nice setup for something interesting to happen. A suggestion for the dialog. Start a new paragraph every time someone speaks..so:

(new Para) I love you" said Jim.
(new Para) And I love clothes said Jane.

You can easily write a sequel to this story with some of the characters showing up again. The Aaloo paratha guy can show up again. You know like, youhve gone some where for chinese and he is sitting on some table near by. Make it really awkward and funny.

My last comment is to ignore all the idiots on Chowk who will try to politisize your funny story. Trust in the life that you see around you and keep writing.

Tahera:
Polishing the shoes Naaa...But iwill certainly make you breakfast i am single and my mom is looking for a nooh.

#1Jaya
While on individual basis this is unfortunate and horrible but look who is talkin 'THAT'
Apne gareban mein jhank Besharam ,Jhoote ,lutere wade ke kache Lol


"Indian Women and Violence" - A Bibliography

---------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------
Fall 1996
NOTE: This list of bibliographic references was complied from responses to a query about "violence against women in India," as they were sent to the H-Asia listserv. Some annotations as well as the contributor's email address are included.
See also "Three songs on women and violence" by Suman Chatterjee

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
Agnes, Flavia. 1992. "Protecting women against violence. Review of a decade of Legislation, 1980-89," Economic and Political Weekly. 27 (17): ws 19-33. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]
Anagol-McGinn, Padma. "Sexual harassment in India : a case study of eve-teasing in historical perspective." In Rethinking sexual harassment. London; Boulder, Colo.: Pluto Press, 1994. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Bhaji on the beach. [videorecording] Culver City, CA: Columbia TriStar Home Video [distributor], 1995. 1 videocassette (100 min.). Film about domestic violence in Indian community in Britain. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Bhattacharjee, Anannya. "The Habit of Ex-Nomination: Nation, Woman and the Indian Immigrant Bourgeoisie," Public Culture. (Fall 1992) 5:1, p. 49. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Bush, Diane Mitsch. "Women's Movements and State Policy Reform Aimed at Domestic Violence against Women: A Comparison of the Consequences of Movement Mobilization in the U.S. and India." Gender & society: official publication of Sociologists for Women in Society. December 1992. Volume 6, Number 4. p. 587-608. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Butler, William, 1818-1899. The land of the Veda: being personal reminiscences of India; its people, castes, thugs, and fakirs; its religions, mythology, principal monuments, palaces, and mausoleums. Edition: 5th ed. New York, Nelson & Phillips, 1873. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Butler, Clementina. Mrs. William Butler; two empires and the Kingdom. New York: The Methodist book concern, 1929. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Calman, Leslie J. Toward empowerment: women and movement politics in India. Boulder: Westview Press, 1992. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Chatterjee, Suman. "Three songs about women and violence." Translated by Sudipta Chatterjee, 1996. Click HERE.

Daly, Mary. Gyn/Ecology: the metaethics of radical feminism. Boston: Beacon Press, 1978. (Jana Everett is) Uncomfortable with the assertion (or argument which Mary Daly made) that Westerners put gender violence issues on the political agenda in India, overlooking the efforts of Indians. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu] See Lorde below.

Das, Veena. Critical events: an anthropological perspective on contemporary India. Delhi; New York: Oxford University Press, 1995. One of the essays gives an interesting perspective on rape and abduction of women during Partition, and of the fallacy of the State and NGOs to deal with the problem. [Reading suggested from Kathinka Frcystad, KATHINKA@prio.no]

Datar, Chhaya, ed. The Struggle against violence. Calcutta: Stree, 1993. Essays on anti rape campaign, campaign against sex determination tests. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Dyer, Helen S. Pandita Ramabai: the story of her life. New York, Chicago [etc.]: Fleming H. Revell company, [1900]. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, srefai@juno.com]

Fuller, Marcus B., Mrs. The wrongs of Indian womanhood. New York: Revell [1900]. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Hawley, John Stratton, ed. Sati, the blessing and the curse: the burning of wives in India. New York : Oxford University Press, 1993. A collection of essays on sati and the Roop Kanwar case. [Reading suggested by Laura Parsons, Laura.Parsons@harpercollins.com ]

Kelkar, Govind. "Violence Against Women: An Understanding of Responsibiity for their Lives," in Third world, second sex : women's struggles and national liberation ; third world women speak out, v.2. Compiled by Miranda Davies. London: Zed Press; Westport, Conn.: L. Hill, U.S. distributor, 1983-87. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Kishwar, Madhu and Ruth Vanita. "The Burning of Roop Kanwar." Race and Class. 30, 1 (1988). [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Kishwar, Mandu and Ruth Vanita. In search of answers: Indian women's voices from Manushi. London: Zed, 1984. Note: "This is a collection of articles from the first five years of Manushi, 1979-1983" - t.p. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]. AND - One section of it deals specifically with women and violence. It was originally published by Zed Press in London, but has been reprinted in India. [Reading suggested from Gail Minault, gminault@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu]

Kumar, Radha. The history of doing: an illustrated account of movements for women's rights and feminism in India 1800-1990. New Delhi: Kali for Women, 1993. [Readings suggestion from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Kumar, Radha, "From Chipko to Sati: The Contemporary Indian Women's Movement," in Basu, Amrita, ed., The Challenge of Local Feminisms. Boulder: Westview Press, 1995, Chapter 2, pp. 58-86. [Reading suggested from Laura Parsons, laura.parsons@harpercollins.com ]

Lewis, Reina. Gendering Orientalism: race, feminity and representation. London; New York: Routledge, 1996. [Reading suggested from Saranjit Nijhar, S.Nijhar@queens-belfast.ac.uk]

Lorde, Audre. In This bridge called my back: writings by radical women of color. Editors: Cherrie Moraga, Gloria Anzaldua. New York: Kitchen Table, Women of Color Press, c1983. The best critique of Mary Daly that I have read. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Mani, Lata. "Contentious Traditions. The Debate on Sati in colonial India." In Recasting women: essays in colonial history. Edited by Kumkum Sangari, Sudesh Vaid. New Delhi: Kali for Women, 1989. p. 88-126. Draws attention to the ways gender violence was used in the discourses of colonialism and nationalism. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Mani, Lata. "Multiple Mediations: Feminist Scholarship in the Age of Multinational Reception." Feminist review. Summer 1990. Number 35, p. 24. Draws attention to the ways gender violence was used in the discourses of colonialism and nationalism. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Manushi. [Delhi, India: Samta] Vol. 1, no. 1 (Dec. 1978)- . (The articles in) the journal Manushi are very good on issues of women and violence, women and labor, and a variety of current concerns. [Reading suggested from Gail Minault, gminault@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu]

Mayo, Katherine, 1868?-1940. Mother India. New York, Harcourt, Brace [c1927]. (Some of) this (discussion) sounds to me like the revival of a very old debate, that between Katherine Mayo and Gandhi, that took place when Gandhi wrote about Mayo's book called `Mother India' that talked about the degraded state of Indian women and general prevalence of apathy to it. [Comments from Rajagopal Vakulabharanam, RVAKULAB@macc.wisc.edu]

Menon, Ritu Menon and Kamla Bhasin. "Recovery, Rupture, Resistance: Indian State and Abduction of Women during Partition," Economic and Political Weekly. 28 April 24, 1993. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Nari Mukti Sangharsh Sammelan (1988: Patna, India). Women and struggle: a report of the Nari Mukti Sangharsh Sammelan, Patna, 1988. By Gail Omvedt, Chetna Gala, Govind Kelkar. New Delhi: Kali for Women, 1988. [Reading suggested from Frank Conlon, conlon@u.washington.edu]

Oldenburg, Veena Talwar. "Dowry Murders in India: A Preliminary Examination of the historical evidence," In Women's lives and public policy: the international experience. Edited by Meredeth Turshen and Briavel Holcomb; foreword by Charlotte Bunch. Westport, Conn.: Praeger, 1993. Veena Talwar Oldenburg has a suggestive essay on how colonialism contributed to an increase in the dowry burden in the 19th century. [Reading suggested from Jana Everett, jeverett@carbon.cudenver.edu]

Omvedt, Gail. We will smash this prison!.: Indian women in struggle. London: Zed Press, 1980. A firsthand account of the voices of working women from South Asia. [Reading suggested from Laxman D. Satya, lsatya@eagle.lhup.edu]

Ramabai Sarasvati, Pandita, 1858-1922. The high-caste Hindu woman. Edition: 3d ed. Philadelphia: [Press of the J. B. Rodgers printing co.], 1888. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Refai, Shahid. American Women's Activism and Indian Women's Response, 1869-1922. Projected book. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Sen, Mala, 1947- . India's bandit queen: the true story of Phoolan Devi. Edition: Rev. and updated ed. London; San Francisco, Calif.: Pandora, 1995, 1991. And film "Bandit Queen." [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Storrow, Edward. Our sisters in India. New York: F.H. Revell, 1899. [Reading suggested from Shahid Refai, refais@rosnet.strose.edu]

Sunder Rajan, Rajeswari. Real and imagined women: gender, culture, and postcolonialism. London; New York: Routledge, 1993. [Reading suggested from Antoinette Burton, hiburton@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu]

Warder, Valerie. "The Gendered Subaltern at the Side of Sati." Humanity & society. 01 August 1995, v.19:no.3, p. 73. [Reading suggested from Philip McEldowney, pm9k@virginia.edu]

Weinberger-Thomas, Catherine. Cendres d'immortalit‚ : la cr‚mation des veuves en Inde. Paris: Seuil, 1996. Series: Librairie du XXe siècle. [Reading suggested from Philip McEldowney, pm9k@virginia.edu]



------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------
Back to the top
ORIGINAL THREAD: Query on readings re: violence against women in India
on 17 September 1996

======================================================================
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 05:53:50 -0700
Reply-To: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture
Sender: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture
From: Frank Conlon
Subject: H-ASIA: Q. Indian women and violence
To: Multiple recipients of list H-ASIA

H-ASIA
September 17, 1996

Query on readings re: violence against women in India
************************************************************************* **
From: DELL@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU

I am teaching a course on Women and Violence on the undergraduate
level. The course will include women's responses to sexual
harassment, rape and domestic violence in the US and India. I
would welcome suggestions on readings.

Thank you,

Heather Dell
Duke University
Dept. of Cultural Anthropology
================================================================== ======
Back to the top

This article only presents one sided perspective. What about the boy's feelings? :)

I'm surprised at the caliber of the social surroundings you are in, despite being apparently a working woman. Such situations are quite extraordinary.

Tahera,

As a pakistani woman get rid of taht pretensions as a modern imancipated woman seeking a role for oneself in the paki society. Have a look at the reality around you so that you can live a life in pakistan.

Read about the hoodood ordinance, read about muktaran mai case and realise that they were not instances of corruption by the authporities, they were the laws of the country.

Read about honor killing and find out why the killers of Samia Sarwar were never charged even though the killers were know,

Take it from me, Tahera, in pakistan honour killing is legal and do not become another statistic.

Enlarge this post, frame it and keep it in a place where you can read it every day.