I Spy Hindutva

Re: # 103

Thanks for your delving on atheists. Do tell us Saab if you have come across carnages in the name of atheism.

Specifically the slaughter of Orthodox priests by Commies in Russia in 1917. Of course they were counter revolutionaries so it does not matter.

Specifically the slaughter of Buddisht and Taoist monks by Mao. Of course they were counter revolutionaries so it does not matter.

Specifically the slaughter of Buddisht monks and Hindu Priests by Pol Pot. Of course they were counter revolutionaries so it does not matter.

Specifically the slaughter of Anand Margis by the CPM. Of course they were counter revolutionaries so it does not matter.

In fact so long as the first 3 of the 4M's slaughter people there is no problem with the 4thM.

The problem with Hindutva is the RSS and its failure to define a coherent ideology. Maybe we should convert all Hindus to the Khalsa. The coherent ideology will come from the Adi and Dasham Granths.

This is not to say that both are perfect but is as close to perfect that we will get to define a concrete religous ideology that can be used politically.

Many years ago we had suggested to the VHP for a true Hindu ideology but unfortunately it went over their head.

Their ideology is based on Neti, Neti no this not this. No wonder one who is not muslai, isai, yahoodi or parsi is Hindu.

Whither Hindutva?

By the way those confused may read Shri Sita Ram Goelji's magnum opus How I became a Hindu at Bharat Vani.

Jo Bole So Nihal
Sat Sri Akal
Sanatani

Nice to read what Vaibhav Jain has to say. Here are a few quotes from another Jain.

Quotes from Shri Girilal Jain

"It is sheer dishonesty or naivete to suggest, as is being widely suggested these days, that Hinduism can admit of theocracy. That is a Muslim privilege which no one else can appropriate.".
"Such is the grip of the misrepresentation of Hindutva in anti-Muslim terms that (even) its proponents, including some leaders of the Bhartiya Janata Party, themselves, speak of it defensively".
"The BJP is not a communal party; it cannot be, for the simple reason that Hindus have never been, and are not, a community in the accepted sense of the term. They represent an ancient civilization not known either to draw a boundary between the faithful and the faithless, the blessed and the damned, or to engage in heresy hunting and its counterpart, persecution of other faiths. Hindus are, in western terms, pagans."
"Unlike Islamic fundamentalists, the BJP does not claim to possess a blueprint. It shall have to struggle to evolve an Indian approach to modern problems."

Re: # 95

Selim Saab,

Thanks for your delving on atheists. Do tell us Saab if you have come across carnages in the name of atheism.

Atheist is actually a wrong label, an atheist is born out of love for the fellow human beings whereas people becoming pious after coming to hate all things human.

Re: # 92

Salim Bhai,

Angrez aren't that bad. Yesterday, on NDTV, a show with Shane Warne, McGrath and a few Indians was on air. You know the amount of effort the Indians took to make the whites feel loved, these shameless creatures would abhor if the shadows of low castes happen to touch theirs.

1Safe sahib #98: Actions speak louder than words - and Nawaz Sharif has demonstrated his commitment to the restoration of the Chief Justice. The rule of law is the enemy of the lawless - and extremists are nothing if not lawless. So, I think fears of the extremists coming to power under a democratic government (PML or PPP, it doesnt matter) are not justified.

Thus, to use the example of BJP that you mention - India, which of course unlike Pakistan has its Consitution intact from any attacks by its own generals, even when in power BJP's extremists were kept in check. The Islamic government in Turkey is another example. So, even if PML is considered right wing, that does not matter given its commitment to the rule of law.

Fascism in Pakistan is the result of military interference in politics - the ethnic fascists of mqm and the islamic fascists of taliban were both fathered by Zia, and both have been nurtured by Musharraf as part of his strategy of retaining his illegal position.

Re: # 97;

as for the term "kaala angrez";

I have a brownish complexion, often generalised as 'kaala' by many; I was born in England which technically makes me "an angrez";

I hope that clarifies all this once and for all.


Kaal Chakkerbaz mian,

same applies; I'd like these speculations to stop now and let us move on. I'd like to be able to interact here and voice 'my personality' exactly how it is without having to give lengthy, unnecessay explanations everytime.

Not that much to ask, is it?

Vaibhav, the dharmic requirement is not to see each other as 'problems' but to recognize real differences across religious ideologies and across different large groups of people adhering to those ideologies.

#59
Tahmed Sir,

I agree with most of your post too. Don't mean to divert from the important topic of this article.

All I am waiting for is for Nawaz Sharif to once condemn unequivically the extremists. I get all the TV-channels here, and there's the Internet; and if he has, I must have missed it. I think PML-N is our BJP; they want the cake and eat it too.

Of course, rule of law is essential.

The term Islamo-fascists means different things to different people. To me the noun is fascist, the qualifier is Islamo. Hatred and anger born out of a feeling of 'impotence' is the overriding quality of these hotheads. In this case they appropriate the religion as a justification. These very people would be the same no matter what their religion.

Re: # 95; Selim sahib,
I have no issues with you and would like to keep it that way, if it is all the same to you.

Just to Clear the Record, if it is being kept somewhere, that is:

1 - I donot go to mosque/church etc and openly talk about the same issues I have now and again raised here

2 - I donot (again openly) observe, even under false pretences, the month of Ramadan; if I am not reminded, I some times don't even realise it is upon us!

3 - I really DONOT believe in the 'super-natural' sky fairy people label as God (be it of arabic/abrahamic or any other variety); my friends and associates know this and the subject comes up very infrequently anyway
My family are aware of this too and after years, they have learnt to live with it

4 - I, generally donot drink; mostly personal choice and I don't get moralistic about others choosing to do so. Socially, I don't mind a glass of wine, now and again; This is well known to my family as well as friends of the religious variety

5 - The "burger' types, if you read my posts here, I find to be the most irritating too; I am not one of them and resent being generalised into a category, any category; I have had a standard mainstream middle class upbringing, nothing special

6 - my parents are practicing and devout muslims; if there are any 'pretences' involved, it is purely 'going along' with them at times to keep the peace; my siblings are not deeply religious (save my brother - not too different from Zeemax actually!! I have said that before)

7 - for the record, I donot celebrate christmas either, my main problem with it is the religious connotations involved; I'd celebrate Eid, again for cultural solidarity with friends and family; I have said that before as well

8 - the question of 'pretend muslim' only arises in the context of a non-muslim asking about my background; it is easier to answer yes, at least initially when you don't know them; When they get to know me, they figure it out invariably as I make no secrets of my lack of belief in sky fairies etc

You are right; who cares!!

Obviously you do for one!

Re: # 95
@ Selim_Chauhan ji

Ah ! You refer to Pascal's Wager.

Are you related to Salim_Chauhan by any means ?

Christian atheists, Jewish atheists, Muslim atheists, and Hindu atheists

While these morons sound like oxymorons, they are merely conveniently hypocritical labels.

They will go to church and be seen worshipping to gather votes. They will deny the existence of God, but claim the land of Israel due to the "Covenant" between God and Abraham. They will stuff their faces in secret or even starve themselves during Ramadan just to impress others. They will break coconuts over their laptops to launch new software and even smear war paint on their faces.

But they will all deny the existence of God. Not because they really believe that He doesn't exist, but because they fear Judgment Day and the retribution that He may prescribe for their evil deeds on earth.

...and of course to shore up their own weak belief in the absence of God, they must be zealots in propagating their "faith" to avoid being in the minority. As if, a majority of atheists is going to scare off the Supreme Being from holding court on the Final Day.

Little do these hypocrites realize that if they are right and there is no God, then who cares? They will not be around to celebrate their victory over the "foolish" believers. But if there is a God, then they are the ones who are screwed for eternity. LOL

#67, Vaibhav,

In general, the impression that I am forming is that "modern" Hindus, especially upper-caste Hindus, don't really believe in the religious teachings or dogmas of their faith. Instead, they identify with the aspect of Hinduism that gives them elevation, power, and prestige in the caste-based totem pole of Hinduism. 8-|

Re: # 65
@ Eklayva ji

I again can't take credit for projecting the death of Sanatana Dharma at the hands of Hindutva. I picked it up from the Ashis Nandy's work although he hypothesized this outcome a good 15-16 years ago.

I see what you mean but see there is a difference in the two things that you compare. Neither Shankara, nor Gautama, Vardhman or Nanak had the keen eyes of Gowalkar that identified Muslims and Christians to be a problem.
Of course the first three never had to deal with the issue cuz there were no muslims or christians then. (In Shankara's time too, it had a limited spread way south of where he lived)

Nanak, even as a boy, would give the same answer to any question posed to him: "nÄ? kÅ?i hindÅ« nÄ? kÅ?i musalmÄ?n".
------------------------

Given this modified scenario, I'd still want to repeat that I'm not saying cultural nationalism is bad or the wrong way. It might help our nation in the long run and that is to be seen. That it is surely going to overpower and erase Dharma is a total possibility

vengatramanan #68 {"Don't tell me you hate India...You have so much love for this country...:}

Vengatramanan Sahib(a),
Of course I don't hate India or Pakistan. I love both countries - I just detest and abhor the kaala angraiz who seem to always enjoy their hedonistic pursuits on the bodies of the poor and neglected people of their countries. Whether it's "India Shining" or "Defence" burger types, we all know what they stand for.

Re: # 85
In between 'nok jhok' of insomniac Aussies..
what change in your view mean to You? .how does it differ .Change is time period specific .All change in both side mean the same.
In terms of physics when a point is moved from A to b it is change in any context.
U dont mean to say Hinduism is still in the period of Sati ,Polytheism ,And plans to remain castist, misogynist, dowry ,imbalance inheritence ridden remnents of 'jahilya'

@ KaalChakra Re: # 85

That's Funny.
See I don't know how your discussion went but the fact that you discussed it out precedes this coming together (and realizing that there is no need to fear) that I am talking about. Because the way one identifies this friction is dialogue.