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I Spy Hindutva

Vaibhav Jain May 5, 2008

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#1 Posted by nkg on May 9, 2008 2:32:41 am
Man, what you want to say? If people want to rectify historical distortions, what is your problem?
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#2 Posted by harimau on May 9, 2008 3:44:34 am
Ref nkg #1

[Man, what you want to say? If people want to rectify historical distortions, what is your problem?]

Rectifying historical distortions might lead to self-respect and assertiveness on the part of Hindus. Which is what the pseudo-secularists don't want.

If Aurangzeb granted a firman to one Hindu temple giving it some money, that is magnified and trumpeted as the example of the secular humanism of Auramgzeb and that is used to hide the fact that he destroyed hundreds of temples.

If Akbar, in his megalomania, tried to synthesize a new religion called Din-Ilahim that is secularism but the fact that under him Hindu capitals such as Chitorgarh were utterly devastated never to be populated again can be conveniently ignored.

Self-hatred has been instillled in Hindus more effectively by Jwahirullah Nehru and his minions at JNU than by the Britishers.

Vaibhav Jain, however, is the first example of a Jain ashamed of not being a Muslim or Christian.
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#3 Posted by nkg on May 9, 2008 4:33:29 am
Vaibhav, Jainism is very much part of Indian culture.It is far different from imported mediaval,middle east,barabric nomadic practises. Jainism does not look bizzare in Indian context. Influence of Mahaveer and other Tirthankars on indians are far larger than the Jain community. You need to know the state of Ahmadias and Shias in Pakistan. When you need to tackle barbarism, you need to adopt some unethical steps (not always), sometimes. This is kind of scavenger's work. RSS is doing that. We all should be thankful to RSS.
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#4 Posted by Kalam on May 9, 2008 4:41:43 am
Re: # 2

Assertiveness? Yes, the upper caste Hindus will exhibit the increasing assertiveness over the SC/ST population.
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#5 Posted by laddu on May 9, 2008 5:09:33 am
"
Hindutva is the ideology of a section of the lower middle class. It feeds off of an anger that has embedded itself in their consciousness."

You can make the same statement for Communism or Islamism.

But I am disappointed because you have neither been able to succesfully understand and segregate the twin concepts of "Hindutva" which is essentially a political and 'social' concpet of RSS and that of 'Hinduism' or Sanatan Dharma which have clear common philosophical threads of liberation, karma, transmigration through renunciation (vairagya), meditation (dhyana) and knowledge (jnana).

RSS and their "Hindutva" is NOT 'Hinduism' and confusing the two is a very common strategy by the commies to erect the strawman before accusing it of all sorts of things!!
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#6 Posted by laddu on May 9, 2008 5:21:13 am
"A central minister of the former BJP-led government writes, “For centuries wherever Islam actually ruled it had been sacrilegious and traitorous to study, develop or propagate ....” 14."

I am surprised that you have little understanding of Islam and its political history in India!!
You have to read the law of Dhimmitude and the way the India was divided into Zimmi-dari where the Nawabs were given Zimma for the Zimmis in a particular jurisdiction- the Nawabs aimed at collecting specific KHARAJ on behalf of the Muslim Badshah in Delhi.
There were little relaxations when it came to re-construction of temples defiled by the momeen hordes - Go to those temples in North or even south- you would find the defiled and dis-membered statutes still on the Gopurams and temple pillars.
They remained dis-figured because the law of dhimmi-tude DOES NOT ALLOW for reconstruction of the defiled temples.

Islam simply DOES NOT ALLOW for propagation of dhimmi religion in the occupied land. Dhimmis have to be extra careful if they attempt to do so and can be killed any time if they try it.
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#7 Posted by laddu on May 9, 2008 5:29:30 am
Hindutva CANNOT replace hinduism .
Hindutva cannot be a substitute for 'Sanatan Dharma' but it does provide political conditions necessary for the re-sugence of Hinduism.
Hindutva is necessary to check mate the rise of Islamic Fascism in India and the momeen hordes.
Hindutva is a necessary political philosophy to protect Hinduism.
Hindutva are the neo-kshatriyas for hindiusm and it must be in good condition for hinduism to survive!!
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#8 Posted by laddu on May 9, 2008 5:34:16 am
Vaibhav,

I doubt you even understand your own Jinna-Dharma. It is one of the most sophisticated of hindu thought.
It's Syad-vada, Anekanta-vada, the atomic theory of karma particles and the entire yogic system of nirjara to achieve liberation is indeed beyond you!!!
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#9 Posted by Mr.India on May 9, 2008 5:59:18 am



The term Tajmahal itself never occurs in any mogul court paper or chronicle even in Aurangzeb's time. The attempt to explain it away as Taj-i-mahal is therefore, ridiculous.

2.The ending "Mahal"is never muslim because in none of the muslim countries around the world from Afghanistan to Algeria is there a building known as "Mahal".

3.The unusual explanation of the term Tajmahal derives from Mumtaz Mahal, who is buried in it, is illogical in at least two respects viz., firstly her name was never Mumtaj Mahal but Mumtaz-ul-Zamani and secondly one cannot omit the first three letters "Mum" from a woman's name to derive the remainder as the name of the building
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#10 Posted by Eklavya on May 9, 2008 6:03:03 am
Come on, guys, give the author a break. He is a twenty year old kid. He has a right to try out different ideas. His last article elicited exactly zero (0) responses.

We should be engaging him - if he feels confident enough to enter into discussions -, and teaching him, instead of criticizing him.

(If he is not ready, let the poor kid go. The debate, if any, should be communists and other outsiders who leverage children for their own purposes.)

----------------

Mr. India, what does Taj-Mahal have to do with any of this?

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#11 Posted by nb on May 9, 2008 6:13:05 am
Vaibhav, did you get any death threats for joining the facebook group you did? Just curious, surely such a malignant, dangerous cult would issue death threats?
You deny that Jainism is the same as Hinduism, and that is your choice-not that of many of the many, many Jains I know-but at the same time you seem to want to criticise Hindutva from the inside. As a non-Hindu, your fear of Hindutva is entirely justified, and an article like this is unremarkable, except for the obvious confusion of it's author.
There are many forms and degrees of Hindutva, just as there are many forms of Hinduism. By lumping them all together, you do exactly what the most right wing elements want you to do.
Lastly, surely you do not suggest that the history books which were written before the rise of the BJP owed nothing to ideology?
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#12 Posted by nkg on May 9, 2008 7:39:48 am
"Hindutva is the ideology of a section of the lower middle class. It feeds off of an anger that has embedded itself in their consciousness. This anger is rooted in a feeling of being cheated by that modernization that hasn't kept its promises. Young men who didn't get anywhere in life are susceptible to manipulation because what Hindutva offers is a sense of belonging from which they extract a sense of society and purpose..."

Baivab,
you are absolutely wrong. The upper middle class is more close to BJP/RSS than any other segment. They may not like destruction of Babri Mosque, but treat this as harmless (not the way secularists treat as hell imposed upon it) activity.
The way sectarian violence gripped in Pakistan ( Shia, Sunni , Ahmadis), you should be grateful that Indian culture does not promote such activity ( Jain, Budhdhist, Sikhs Vs. Hindus never happened).
It is simply useless (better to say harmful) to have mediaval, middle east barbarism on this soil. It does not serve any purpose. It rather creates a 3rd class, mediaval slaves, who are totally disconnected from the land and it's civilisation. Pakistan, Bangladesh etc... is glaring example of this. If RSS becomes successful in suppressing this evil in India, this should be welcomed.
Apart from Jains,Budhdhists and Sikhs, there are couple of thousands of Parsis and Jews. I have never seen any confrontation between RSS and these people...
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#13 Posted by mistaken_enigma on May 9, 2008 8:04:01 am
I am not fighting. I am not preaching a need to fight anything. You must notice that this article doesn't point at anyone or wag a severe finger at anyone in particular. I have refrained from taking any names. Why? I simply don't believe that violence with words is necessary at all.

What I have done, instead is picked up Hindutva and talked about
1) Its roots
2) Its double standards
3) Its separation from the secular
4) Its intellectual agenda
5) Its projected inevitable reign

And though all this is the bulk of what I have written, the point of my write-up is everything apart from this. I wanted to sing a song in which Sanatana Dharma which began out as a rhythm-less melody has been drowned in the loud beats and tones of nationalism (I apologize to all music lovers for using such a horrid analogy) and eventually hypothesize the death of Hinduism (in India) at the very hands of Hindutva – an idea of Nandy's.
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#14 Posted by HP on May 9, 2008 8:23:28 am
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#15 Posted by mistaken_enigma on May 9, 2008 8:35:53 am
@ Laddu ji (Comments# 5-8)

I don't think I have confused the 2 concepts, though, as you say, I may not have done a decent job at saying that the two are different.
You have referred to the age old Dhimmitude. I'm not at all as well read as you seem to be and honestly, I would never have heard of it if not for the September 11 attack. My point in quoting whoever, was to say that by writing so we are in a way maintaining double standards. On the one hand, a picture of Arab Imperialism is being distributed whereas on the other, nationalistic origins and loyalties are being announced.
I am indeed may be less knowledgeable about Jinna-dharma (although what you have listed as your summary of Jainism are concepts that I have high regard for. I particularly enjoy talking about Anekantavada to people here in Texas as well as back home). At the same time, I am involved as and promote Sanatana Dharma here in the United States even as a university student.
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#16 Posted by mistaken_enigma on May 9, 2008 8:46:20 am
@ nb (Comment #11)

I think ideological writing is very different from ideological scrapping, and rewriting on the basis of appropriateness.
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