Zafar Mohiuddin May 6, 2008
#7 Posted by kaptain on May 8, 2008 5:58:07 am
Whether after the restoration; the Chief Justice is impartial as he wasn't, which seemed reflected throughout in the column, needs to be seen. As now the military has backed off, political trauma of a different kind has set in. America, to some extent has grow uneasy and its temples are shone with mild sweat; civilian activity, unprecedented, is not fading.
Scenario has changed though.
Moreover, vilifying the judge being too personal in some cases; why don't we retrospect our 'revered' politicians' lot who went on rampage in corruption; got legislations changed because they weren't eligible to be graduates. So why blame one when everyone is so?
Scenario has changed though.
Moreover, vilifying the judge being too personal in some cases; why don't we retrospect our 'revered' politicians' lot who went on rampage in corruption; got legislations changed because they weren't eligible to be graduates. So why blame one when everyone is so?
#6 Posted by kaptain on May 8, 2008 5:54:05 am
Whether after the restoration; the Chief Justice is impartial as he wasn't, which seemed reflected throughout in the column, needs to be seen. As now the military has backed off, political trauma of a different kind has set in. America, to some extent has grow uneasy and its temples are shone with mild sweat; civilian activity, unprecedented, is not fading.
Scenario has changed though.
Moreover, vilifying the judge being too personal in some cases; why don't we retrospect our 'revered' politicians' lot who went on rampage in corruption; got legislations changed because they weren't eligible to be graduates. So why blame one when everyone is so?
Scenario has changed though.
Moreover, vilifying the judge being too personal in some cases; why don't we retrospect our 'revered' politicians' lot who went on rampage in corruption; got legislations changed because they weren't eligible to be graduates. So why blame one when everyone is so?
#5 Posted by majumdar on May 8, 2008 12:50:33 am
HP sain,
(have the ability to shake things up in both FATA and Baluchistan. )
What exactly is your defintion of shaking up things in B'stan and FATA?
1. Truce with the disaffected elements.
OR
2. Military victory over them.
Regards
(have the ability to shake things up in both FATA and Baluchistan. )
What exactly is your defintion of shaking up things in B'stan and FATA?
1. Truce with the disaffected elements.
OR
2. Military victory over them.
Regards
#4 Posted by HP on May 7, 2008 11:01:33 am
The article is long but the issues discussed really needed some background info.
I agree with the author that the kind of judicial activism seen in Pakistan by CJ Choudry would have destroyed a democratic or a civilian government too. However, CJ’s actions against the army regime were appropriate and his effort clearly was to place an out of control military regime under control. So an exception can be made. When the Pak army can set aside the constitution pretty much at will, a Supreme Court can also counter with increased activism. His actions actually helped the democratic cause in Pakistan. Without his efforts, the 2008 elections in Pakistan would have been another farce like the 2002 elections.
Second point the author raised is an interesting one too.
He is implying that the PPP wants to ensure that there is no repeat of 2007 by any Judiciary in Pakistan. This is a legitimate concern. They don’t want any CJ to disrupt the civilian government with some nifty judicial moves. I think the CJ, the Lawyers and Nawaz group should address this and agree to some constitutions restrictions on the Supreme Court.
He makes an interesting call for the Judges and the lawyers to step aside for the time being. I really never thought of the issue in this way. The Judiciary issue might bring the coalition down and along with that any hope for the civilian rule might be dashed for a long time.
Can the country afford that? It took almost 9 years to get to where the country is now. The efforts made during 2007 would be hard to duplicate as probably no one has the stamina to sustain that for a long period of time. CJ made a political call when he defied the army and he can be rewarded for that in many different ways. So perhaps, he should think about removing himself and allowing the parties to make a deal.
I also agree that the restoration of judges would not make or break the country. And that the reinstatement of the CJ is no guarantee that the army would not interfere again. He will eventually retire and we might see some toady CJ after him do what others were doing before him i.e rubber stamping the military rule. The political parties can again take up that issue in the next three or four months after they have gained control and have the ability to shake things up in both FATA and Baluchistan.
They should concentrate on changes in the constitution that everyone agrees on like 58 2(b) and remove extra layers of power that Musharaf has right now.
Zafar Sahib, Welcome to this forum.
I agree with the author that the kind of judicial activism seen in Pakistan by CJ Choudry would have destroyed a democratic or a civilian government too. However, CJ’s actions against the army regime were appropriate and his effort clearly was to place an out of control military regime under control. So an exception can be made. When the Pak army can set aside the constitution pretty much at will, a Supreme Court can also counter with increased activism. His actions actually helped the democratic cause in Pakistan. Without his efforts, the 2008 elections in Pakistan would have been another farce like the 2002 elections.
Second point the author raised is an interesting one too.
He is implying that the PPP wants to ensure that there is no repeat of 2007 by any Judiciary in Pakistan. This is a legitimate concern. They don’t want any CJ to disrupt the civilian government with some nifty judicial moves. I think the CJ, the Lawyers and Nawaz group should address this and agree to some constitutions restrictions on the Supreme Court.
He makes an interesting call for the Judges and the lawyers to step aside for the time being. I really never thought of the issue in this way. The Judiciary issue might bring the coalition down and along with that any hope for the civilian rule might be dashed for a long time.
Can the country afford that? It took almost 9 years to get to where the country is now. The efforts made during 2007 would be hard to duplicate as probably no one has the stamina to sustain that for a long period of time. CJ made a political call when he defied the army and he can be rewarded for that in many different ways. So perhaps, he should think about removing himself and allowing the parties to make a deal.
I also agree that the restoration of judges would not make or break the country. And that the reinstatement of the CJ is no guarantee that the army would not interfere again. He will eventually retire and we might see some toady CJ after him do what others were doing before him i.e rubber stamping the military rule. The political parties can again take up that issue in the next three or four months after they have gained control and have the ability to shake things up in both FATA and Baluchistan.
They should concentrate on changes in the constitution that everyone agrees on like 58 2(b) and remove extra layers of power that Musharaf has right now.
Zafar Sahib, Welcome to this forum.
#3 Posted by treetop on May 7, 2008 8:26:05 am
Throughout the article you have been giving the impression
that you are about to divulge the sinister motives behind the CJs actions.well that did not happen and you threw a bombshell by asking the CJ to put on the garb of a saint.
I could not figure out if you are lobbying for the PPP or army, or both.
May be it is to much to ask for intellectual integrity from any corner in this country.
that you are about to divulge the sinister motives behind the CJs actions.well that did not happen and you threw a bombshell by asking the CJ to put on the garb of a saint.
I could not figure out if you are lobbying for the PPP or army, or both.
May be it is to much to ask for intellectual integrity from any corner in this country.
#2 Posted by Leadenwinter on May 7, 2008 8:02:32 am
As a lawyer, I strongly believe that an independent judiciary must always exist in any national power structure, mainly to check the other institutions, to which end judicial activism is invariably an important tool.
Nevertheless although it is acceptable and indeed imperative (in an ideal world) for the Pakistani judiciary to be an independent power structure, the inevitably impoverished nature of our Parliamentarians in every instance, shall always be the nation's undoing. In effect the very democratic process in Pakistan will compel judicial activism and/or result in a weak, subservient judiciary. A democratically elected Pakistani parliament, representative of the will of the people, shall thus pursue injustice by default, which is why an independent Judiciary is simply not compatible with Pakistani democracy.
Similarly the quality of other institutions such as the Police and other related agencies, by which the Judiciary enforces its jurisdiction leave much to be desired.
Pakistani institutions have to be established from the top-down, rather than any of those other ways recommended by the Americans. Sensibly, and indeed following every other successful government and nation in history; the institutions come first, the democracy and the will of the public later. These previous elections were simply machinations on the part of a number of power-hungry actors, imperialists and their lackeys to dislodge the military for fear that any actual progress, change in status-quo or stability may be attained. The role of the Judiciary, in so far as its intentions in all of this thus becomes suspect.
Nevertheless although it is acceptable and indeed imperative (in an ideal world) for the Pakistani judiciary to be an independent power structure, the inevitably impoverished nature of our Parliamentarians in every instance, shall always be the nation's undoing. In effect the very democratic process in Pakistan will compel judicial activism and/or result in a weak, subservient judiciary. A democratically elected Pakistani parliament, representative of the will of the people, shall thus pursue injustice by default, which is why an independent Judiciary is simply not compatible with Pakistani democracy.
Similarly the quality of other institutions such as the Police and other related agencies, by which the Judiciary enforces its jurisdiction leave much to be desired.
Pakistani institutions have to be established from the top-down, rather than any of those other ways recommended by the Americans. Sensibly, and indeed following every other successful government and nation in history; the institutions come first, the democracy and the will of the public later. These previous elections were simply machinations on the part of a number of power-hungry actors, imperialists and their lackeys to dislodge the military for fear that any actual progress, change in status-quo or stability may be attained. The role of the Judiciary, in so far as its intentions in all of this thus becomes suspect.
#1 Posted by zeemax on May 7, 2008 2:31:22 am
Unfortunately, according to the recent Gallup survey, 81% of the Pakistani people want the same Chief Justice back. You are one of the 19% (including the don't cares and maybes) regardless of your considering the 81% stupid and yourself wise.
So I'm sad to inform you that your brilliant effort at writing this lengthy article (which I haven't read but got the idea from the first few lines) was all in-vain.
So I'm sad to inform you that your brilliant effort at writing this lengthy article (which I haven't read but got the idea from the first few lines) was all in-vain.
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