Can the Judiciary Save the Coalition?

Dear all loosers,

Question: Can the Judiciary Save the Coalition?

Answer: NO

Now can we move on?

Regards

The US Elite

#61 Posted by Urstruly
Re: # 58 HP
"You missed the correct answer."

No, urstruly. I never miss these things. Even before Bouchar hit the news, I knew at least Zaradri was in constant touch with either the US ambassador or some other CIA operative in the embassy. I am sure Nawaz must be updating some one.
You missed this in my post.

"There are many parties in these dialogs and communications from Pakistan to the outside world are not secured."

The US is micromanaging the talks.
Here is my proposal to break the deadlock and resolve everything...:)

Only the US can do it... it would be minus one, minus one on both sides. The US should give up Musharaf and Nawaz should give up the CJ. It is a win-win situation. Nawaz wants the CJ to deliver Mushy's head to him and if the US delivers Mushy to him, he does not need the CJ.US does not want the CJ to sit in the SC and look for the missing persons.So they both give up one each and after that Nawaz would be a bigger US chamcha, even bigger than Zardari.

what do you think?

The funniest part of the whole thing is there is no war of terror going on anywhere because Pakistanis are busy in the CJ affair. That tells you how hollow the whole thing is.

Re: # 66 HP

What do I think?

I basically agree with you on all three - zardari, ns, and amreeka. The way they are trying to micromanage this issue is quite revealing that how desperate amkika and its local chmachas have become. THe cj issue will flush the political future of all three of them down the toilet.

My March 8 ilog, written actually a day after the election results came in, originally submitted as an article but was censored by chowk editors. Tahmed praised it by saying every rickshaw driver knew about the ideas therein- which told me that it spoke the voice of the people:

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Legitimizing a Farce: The 2008 Pakistan Election and the Pakistan ArmyPosted: Mar 8, 2008 Sat 09:59 pm Views: 118 Interacts: 3 CHOWK STAFF CENSORED THIS ARTICLE.


Legitimizing a Farce: The 2008 Pakistan Election and the Pakistan Army

M. Asadi

For people who are saying that these elections are a “landmark in Pakistan’s history”, let me remind them that they are repeating in different words what Musharraf had been saying all along in his "dictatorship as the best defense of democracy" rhetoric, that followed last year’s declaration of emergency. In other words, those who are celebrating these elections and their results are trying to justify all the undemocratic maneuvering by the military and its dictator (Musharraf) that described the immediate context of these elections (part of which was the assassination of Benazir Bhutto) and thereby absolving the dictator of all wrong doing by saying it was “worth it” for democracy. Both these "winners", the PML-N and the PPP will fit into the ‘hierarchy of power’ prescribed for politicians by their superiors (the commanders of the Pakistan Army in our case), and if they try moving out of line they will be brought straight back in or sent home packing. Was it not the same "democratic-alliance" before the elections that vowed to boycott these elections, given their dictatorial context and then did a total turnaround to get power, rushing to outdo each other in legitimizing the same structure that is anti-democracy to the core?

To take part in the elections was to legitimize what led up to the elections and that was maneuvering by the military in order to salvage itself and its reputation from a total rebellion by the people to oust the occupiers. To take part in them was to legitimize Musharraf‘s rhetoric about his three stages of getting to “democracy through dictatorial control” where the Army remains firmly in charge. Elections have not brought democracy to this country and will not unless a charismatic leader of the caliber of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, people who in the absence of viable institutions are institutions by themselves, emerges who can move the masses against military domination in political affairs. The Pakistan Army has certainly not disappeared from the power equation, it is still in command, and total command, and will be regardless of the elections, which are merely a way to mask their rule. Such “masking” occurs ever so often when America wants to cut off Pakistan, needs it for some ulterior motive and wants to rescue those (the Pakistan Army) that have been serving it from being rejected violently by the local population through a revolutionary war. No issue facing Pakistan is greater in urgency than the domination of its dominant institution, the Pakistan Army by the American elite and the resulting forced atrophy of the rest of its social institutions including the political and the economic.

By punishing civilian “democratic” governments, the US elite achieve a two prong objective:

i) Discredit civilians and democracy in the eyes of the Pakistani public
ii) Prevent the alienation of the Pakistan Army from America, making it go against the civilian government and then supporting such dictatorship wholeheartedly by economic injections for short term relief- the famously and often tried "stop gap" formula, with its reputation with the people enhanced due to such manipulation of constructed failure of the civilian governments.

The final results of the current elections in Pakistan reveals Army over lordship (checks and balances according to US defined parameters) presiding over a victory to the opposition, when the Army rule legitimacy is at the lowest level that it can possibly get before a civil war breaks out. How do you manipulate this situation to turn it into a win-win for the Pakistan Army: We don't have to go too far back in history to see how it occurs. Every so many years when the Americans want to salvage the Army (for their own purpose) and cut off Pakistan (for their own purpose) they encourage a so-called circumscribed "democracy". Now when the opposition forms a government, the belt will be tightened around Pakistan's neck by the Americans, the situation will get worse, setting the scenario for another military takeover where the previously (hated by people) military now appears all the more attractive. The Army will be salvaged for another almost a decade before this mantra is tried again.

However it is getting more and more tenuous for the Americans to try this formula in Pakistan with every successive Martial Law as they have done in the past because:

i) Every martial law produced unintended consequences, this run produced the lawyer's movement, which has become a thorn in the side of the establishment (military/feudal/political nexus)

ii) The subordinates of the Western elite at the top of the Pakistan Army, due to the geographic distance from their real command (in Washington) feel after a while that they preside over the nation quite independently and develops false notions of “sovereignty”.

For these reasons, the Americans might soon break from the past and try their hand at breaking Pakistan with actual occupation of certain parts because dealing with their proxy occupation force (the Pakistan Army) gets tenuous with every Martial Law. In the meantime let the fools celebrate their victory even as General Kiyani looks towards the near future with hopes of salvaging through such celebration what would have turned out eventually, were the people’s sentiments not manipulated through the political establishment, to be the end of Pakistan's occupation by the Pakistan Army (by a seemingly civil war). Finally, this vote was not so much an endorsement of the PPP or the PML-N as it was a rejection of military rule.

Let the protests continue for therein lies our salvation as a nation.


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later........

nasah#64:

I was a fan of Mushy, the dictator, but not of Mushy, the dirty politician.

And I am no fan of the lawless Indian democracy which allows the likes of Delhi massacres of 1984 and Gujarat massacres of 2002. In Punjabi, we call such govt as "chor uchakka chowdry tay lundee runn pardhaan".

""chor uchakka chowdry tay lundee runn pardhaan"." DM please translate -- sounds spicy.

nasah:

It refers to a place where thieves and pickpockets are the leaders, presided over by a useless woman.

"useless" woman? -- doesn't it sound a little chauvinistic -- even for that head of the Itali Congress?

DM -- please explain the background of this 'misogyn' "kahawat"...:)

Re: # 72

I think the correct translation is "....presided over by a useless one-armed woman."

Re: # 72

I think the correct translation is "....presided over by a useless one-armed woman."

Re: # 67

urstruly,

"THe cj issue will flush the political future of all three of them down the toilet. "

..... i beg to disagree, but the cj will be flushed down the toilet along with the toilet paper sticking to him ..... mushy owns the toilet, the toilet paper, the lotas and, if he needs it, he also has the kiyani plunger .....

#68 Posted by masadi

Your article captures the essence of what’s going on and the game that is being played there.
Shame on Chowk staff for not publishing it.

I would again say that you start sending your article to newspapers in Pakistan. You may hit some self-censorship initially but the way the crisis is deepening, the newspapers too would be forced to publish the truth.

Long time ago in Pakistan, we had an underground press and many political groups used to print their own cyclo-styled magazines. Then we bought a photocopying machine and used to photocopy and distribute magazines.

Interestingly, what we published underground then is now main stream.
You should not rely on Chowk to publish your articles. Chowk has very limited and now dwindling audience due to the level of the discussions here.

There are some Pakistani sites with wider audience and controlled discussions and no Indian trolls. I am sure they will publish you.

Hamid, I admire your way of telling the truth.

"mushy owns the toilet,"

The CJ issue is not abt the man, droopy eyes or not, it is abt a civilian demand and the first one ever in Pakistan's history . So its significance should not be lost.

The civilians may lose out on this as the opposition the toilet owner, the army , and the US currently have more guns in their arsenals.

When a political struggle starts, its initial failure opens the doors for successes in other areas. Though I just don't think that it is a good idea to lose the parliament over the issue but if they do, they will come back even more stronger and perhaps the loss of parliament would also put dents in the Pak army and US Armour in Pakistan. If nothing else, we might just have a new toilet owner and that would be a victory!

Re: # 77

HP sahib,

(Interestingly, what we published underground then is now main stream.)

Do you think we should say thank you to Musharraf for that?

Before Mush, this WAS unthinkable in Pakistan, or wasn't it?

Let us give credit where it is due.

Even in the "democratic" days of Bhutto(Z), there was no such freedom of media.

kindest regards.

#79 Posted by pakistan3

"Do you think we should say thank you to Musharraf for that?"
Ridiculous! The credit should go to the people who fought for the Press freedom. Mush was forced to accept it and as soon as the his own power was shaken, he clamped down on the media.

Using your idea, should we also thank him for restricting the media for opposing him?

The media is talking again because of the civilians. As soon as the parliament is gone, Mush and the army will shut down the media again!