When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough

Re: # 137
Once they've ruined their future generations through Women's Lib and Children's Rights, they will return to Men's Rights.

Why is it that in every article the battered spouse is the wife. How about an article on battered/abused husbands? Abuse does not necessarily have to be physical.

Re: # 130
American males grow up playing with toy guns and producing the notorious 'Bang! Bang!' sound.

Eastern (Indo-Pak) males only utter 'thaa...thaa..' or 'thishuN...thishuN...' sounds when they play.

Hence, 'banging' is alien, and NOT part of our culture.

Re: # 133; majumdar bhai

My cousins from the 'pind'(punjabi for village) used to brag about their sexual adventures ad nauseum; we are talking about mid-late teens. Getting fed up of constant, unwanted and irrelevant information, I once turned around and asked one of them who was soon to be married - in the same pind. Given there were only 20-30 families in their village, I asked him about the expected 'virginity' of his prospective wife. He swore by it, of course.

Then I put two and two together for him; given there were only so many young males and females, all the males bragged about a different female; it didn't take long for the penny to drop!

Never heard another word on the subject!

Khuda Hafiz

#133 by majumdar

Paki men would be pleased to be thought of as Casanovas!!!

Majumdar bhai, I've given reasons as to why I think so. But if Paki men take it too seriously, their womenfolk would have to flee east of the Radcliffe Line because men love to be Casanovas but which woman would want her man to be one and prey on any other woman?

If you equate Zee sahib's womanising to the entire Paki male population, you may make yourselves many friends across the Radcliffe Line. Paki men would be pleased to be thought of as Casanovas!!!

Regards

#130 by majumdar on May 14, 2008 5:00:06 am

It is certainly unfair to equate womanising with wife beating.

Majumdar bhai, it is my view and my view alone. I'm not asking anyone to agree with it. I was just using that as an example to show zee how stereotyping people based on a few samples is foolish.

Re: # 21
Urstr...

"The women usually get beat up when they try o be oversmart and overdo it"
Who have stopped you from becoming smart and counter your wife with proper logic and patience...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14VEE5nDL04&feature=related

Harishbhai,

It is certainly unfair to equate womanising with wife beating. If a man "bangs" a large number of women with their own consent why is that a problem?

Regards

#128 by zeemax

Now you're getting even funnier. What's banging Western women got to do with beating them up? (unless they ask of-course which is not that unusual either.)

To me, the idea behind womanizing and wife-beating (okay add GF-beating to that) is the same: to have, possess and control women. Its perhaps a matter of perspective: you look for differences and I look for similarities. But I hope you got the point I was trying to make vis-a-vis Romair's post.

BTW, you're quite a simpleton when it comes to these matters.

Guilty as charged.

#126 Posted by harish_hyd,

Now you're getting even funnier. What's banging Western women got to do with beating them up? (unless they ask of-course which is not that unusual either.)

BTW, you're quite a simpleton when it comes to these matters.

Re: # 126; harish

may be he meant western as 'the wild west'; its all 'interpretation' as they say

i am outta here..enjoy

#125 by zeemax

Haha ... abuse now.

Ouch! Sorry if that hurt, but never thought that someone who abuses people as a matter of habit would be so touchy about something as harmless as the word I used.

Anyway, the answer is yes! Western men treat their women like garbage and they love it.

Yaar you have openly confessed to how you've banged women of various nationalities and ethnicities. If someone were to use you as anecdotal evidence and extrapolate it to the wider Paki male population, they would conclude that all Paki men are like you. However I won't do that. That is what my beef is with Romair's post. Do you understand that now?

#124 Posted by harish_hyd,

Haha ... abuse now.

Anyway, the answer is yes! Western men treat their women like garbage and they love it.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#122 Posted by harish_hyd,

You have a nice trick of making a statement and then immediately contradicting yourself after an immediate 'That said'. LoL!

This trick in shorthand is called 'CYA' (i.e. Cover Your Ass)!

So, in the final analysis, as you say "Once in a relationship, it is tougher for women to walk out of it than it is for men", we arrive at that for women, a relationship is more important than abuse inside or outside marriage, may these be Western women or those of the sub-continent. We agree completely.

#121 by zeemax

Why didn't she leave him?

Anecdotal evidence counts for nothing and you know that.

That said, the reason is that contrary to the general belief here, women in the west are women too and not sluts as most people (especially in the subcontinent) would like to believe. Once in a relationship, it is tougher for women to walk out of it than it is for men.

#120 Posted by harish_hyd,

No that's not the case at all.

Re the question, I know a British girl whose Pakistani BF used to hit her and she used to come crying to me, but she never left him and now they've been married ten years.

Why didn't she leave him?

#119 by zeemax

The difference is it is harder for a woman to leave an abusive husband than leaving an abusive boyfriend. But some of them still DON'T.

If you read Romair's post carefully, you will notice how he gloats at how bad women have it in the west, while Paki women are basking in the shadows of their benign husbands. If you honestly think that's not the case, I will try to reply to your question.

#117 Posted by harish_hyd,

Being beaten by a family member or a boyfriend, what difference does it make to the woman at the receiving end? Is one better than the other?

Harish Bhai I think you're being quite a dunce here. Attacking bulleya for no reason. Can't you see what he is trying to say? The difference is it is harder for a woman to leave an abusive husband than leaving an abusive boyfriend. But some of them still DON'T.

Now you tell me why not?

harish,

i know. we are on the same page here. it makes no difference where, and by whom.

What good does it do to be absolutely mad at Romair though? When asked aqal baRi ke bhains, it matters not, aqal loses out most of the time. To say every time would be too cruel.

#113 by ana

I hope that you were just pointing out to Romair what an idiot he is, and this is not about who is better (even if it is relatively). . . .

Ana, this is NOT about who is better. I'm absolutely mad at how Romair uses an isolated (or maybe a few) incident(s) to prove how men in Pakistan are better. I've used the same stereotype of men in Pakistan as he was using of men and abused women in the west. I hope by using his anecdote, I would be able to get to him. Being beaten by a family member or a boyfriend, what difference does it make to the woman at the receiving end? Is one better than the other?

This defensiveness on the part of some of you men here is somewhat typical.

Thanks! The usage of the word "some" makes it so much better than it would have been otherwise.

It is it praisworthy of writer to tactfully arrest the momentum of violence without going in other peoples business. Now most people are not bad but are not corageous to go and try to atlest stop battering. This is good way suggesting. I will do such thing next time. Our problem is we say these are not our problems and little things and we do not intervane if he is trying to kill woman as that is too big to do any thing. So we do not do nothing. Now there is some time practical problems how to help woman.Some men are very violent specially young people. Once I was standing to catch bus and bus came and Ghundas just rushed and all other weak civilised people shouted come out. But Man just asked people to dare to take out and asked " Ladhana hay kya ?. You can not do nothing just feel humilated. Its hard to deal with muscular men with profane tongue.

Re: # 95
"...A country where according to their own statistics of FBI a woman is raped every 20 seconds, I think they should better put their own house in order first than point fingers at others... The same can and should be said for us."

Our agencies are unable to collect figures with such precison!

Since 1776, how many rapes have they counted in the States?

That's 4320 rapes per day! And they tell us to take care of issues they are unable to tackle themsleves?

Re: # 112
Chal chor na yaar. I think we have already straightened it out.

harish:

I hope that you were just pointing out to Romair what an idiot he is, and this is not about who is better (even if it is relatively). . . .

And yeah, there are a lot of decent Pakistani husbands who never hit their wives. I grew up around some of them. And some of them are my friends. That does not mitigate the violence that still occurs.

This defensiveness on the part of some of you men here is somewhat typical.

#111 Posted by Urstruly,

I'ld be grateful for you to re-write those lines. I thought the questions identified point to a very significant answer.

Re: # 108 zeemax
If you wrote # 101, then the last three sentences were not phrased very well; and lead to unintended implications.

#109 by bulleya

......having heard all such stories.....i still think pakistani men - at least the ones who have had some exposure - are still relatively good husbands.......

Whenever I went to a certain part of Canada where a certain Paki airforce ex-employee landed after being kicked out by his employers, I used to stay with him. He used to be so badly bashed up by his wife that it was difficult to believe that in this day and age, men can be so meek and submissive. If it had happened in Pakistan, it wouldn't be so hard for me to believe. So what if this guy had to bend over backwards at home? At least outside it, he could pretend that he was a real macho man and since Pakistan is such a male-dominated society, no one would even suspect the horror that was going on inside the four walls of his home, kinda like Josef Fritzl led a normal life even though he had confined his daughter to a dungeon in his basement.

After I saw this incident, I think Indian men are lucky, so what if they're nagged incessantly by their wives/girlfriends? At least they don't get beaten up like my friend used to.

....whenever we go to a certain part of canada, we are invited by my wife's ex-college roommates to stay with them, in a house where two, out of the three, of them still live.....

they are about as, "independent" as one could assume any woman to be......intimidatingly independent......multiple boyfriends, living alone since 18......jobs.....no money needed from anywhere......educated.....politically active....excellent knowledge of laws.....

i always felt out of place.......the two of us.. innocently, communicating with two women who seen everything.......

.....one day i was discussing this with my wife, and she told me that these two roommates had told her that they used to have the crap beat out of them by their boyfriends......

wife-abuse is one thing.....one is in a family, which is difficult to leave........but being beaten by boyfriends is something that is in another league.....and that in a country where one would think women had all the rights.....

......having heard all such stories.....i still think pakistani men - at least the ones who have had some exposure - are still relatively good husbands.......

if you don't believe me, ask all the married ladies, on chowk, about their husbands......

#103 Posted by Urstruly,

I'm sure this post is the result of some mis-reading of my #101.

Good grief Charlie Brown! Har aik baat ko India vs. Pakistan or Islam vs. the rest of the world karnay se kabhi aap log tang nahiN aatay?

Aisha wrote an article more specific to where she is right now. There's no need to prove via statistics, articles or our holy books, that violence exists against women. It happens everywhere. Women in the US still march every year to "take back the night". You mard log take this opportunity again to abuse one another, and reduce the topic to your own bakwaas.

Vah!

#105 Posted by Urstruly on May 12, 2008 8:12:18 pm


maulana urstruly...it's ok..you're numerically challenged..you can't calculate percentages from your own numbers..maybe the whole percentages thing is an evil zionist invention to humiliate the momin...

let me walk you through the basics..in terms you'll understand...If India has 3 parts of Kashmir and PAkistan has 1 part, India has 75% and Pakistan has 25%..

now, for your homework, calculate the percentages from YOUR own statistics...

Re: # 104

no this is somethimng I do to hindus and mirzais to get the truth out of them. Now take your own statistics and you will see that you were nothing but a pathetic hindutva hatemonger. Your own statitics negate your propaganda.

maulana urstruly: time to take a refresher course in basic math...the whole percentages thing...

Re: # 101

What is there to question? You have some screwed up sense of values. A man who suffers thru a whole night of querrel from his wife, steps out of his house, to give her some space and clear his head, and you call him the mysogenist for that? This one probably tops all the screws we come across.

For some strange reason chowk staff banned me to post for 24 hours, for a post that I wrote last year; that was way before national reconciliation order was issued.

#59 Posted by Urstruly re #37 (Urstruly, Did Prophet Mohammad ever roughed up his wives? If not, why not?)

I am glad you'd asked. Holy Prophet (pbuh) has set a very high standard for the rest of humanity viz a viz women.

While your answer is commendable - even though the questioner does not really seek an answer - a specific instance can be quoted in categorically replying "No he did not. Not under any circumstances".

Quote: (witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/companion/10_umar_bin_al_khattab.htm)

Um ar felt that while in Mecca the Quraishites dominated over their women, in Madina things had changed, and the women asserted themselves. One day Umar was cross with his wife on some matter, but instead of being quiet she retorted, "How is it that you feel annoyed at my remonstrance. Go and see that the wives of the Holy Prophet remonstrate with the Holy Prophet. Tonight one of his wives quarreled with him all the night."

Hearing this, Umar went to his daughter Hafsa and enquired of her whether she had quarreled with the Holy Prophet. She said that she had quarreled with the Holy Prophet as she had a grievance. Thereupon Umar said, "Hafsa you are incurring loss. Don't you know by annoying the Holy Prophet you invite the wrath of God." After reprimanding her in severe terms, Umar returned home.

At night, the Ansari neighbor of Umar knocked at his door, and as Umar went to see what was the matter, his friend told him that something very grave had happened. Umar thought that perhaps Banu Ghassan whose attack was expected had invaded Madina. Umar enquired whether Banu Ghassan had launched the attack. Banu Umaya said, "No. Something more serious than that has happened". When Umar pressed him to tell what had happened he said that the Holy Prophet had divorced his wives.

Umar was very much upset at the news. He spent the whole night in prayer. Early in the morning next day, Umar went to Hafsa. He found her weeping. He enquired of her whether the Holy Prophet had divorced her. She said that she did not know. Umar rebuked her saying. "Did I not warn you before hand that by annoying the Holy Prophet you would be inviting trouble?" Thereupon Hafsa burst into violent sobs. Umar left her weeping and went to the Prophet's Mosque. There the people were sitting in groups here and there and were lamenting that the Holy Prophet had divorced his wives.

The Holy Prophet was in the cell attached to the Mosque. Umar went to the cell, and asked the slave at the door to seek the Holy Prophet's permission to his admittance. The slave returned to say that he had sought the requisite permission from the Holy Prophet but he had kept quiet.

Umar returned to the main hall of the Mosque, and sat in a corner in a dejected mood. After some time he rose and went again to the ceil of the Holy Prophet. Once again he requested the slave to get permission for his admittance. The slave returned to say that the Holy Prophet had made no reply.

Umar returned once again to the main hall of the Mosque. He was highly upset and he prayed to God for mercy. Then once again he went to the cell of the Holy Prophet. This time he was allowed permission. Entering the cell, Umar said:

"O Messenger of God, I have not come to plead for Hafsa. If that is your pleasure I would wring her neck with my own hands."

That softened the Holy Prophet and he smiled at the words of Umar.

Umar further said, "I find that in Mecca our ladies were docile; the climate of Madina has made them assertive. O Prophet of God if because of the impudence of your wives, you have divorced them, God, His angels, and all your followers are with you."

The Holy Prophet smiled and said, "Be assured, I have not divorced my wives. I have only decided to remain separate from them for a period of one month."

"Then may I tell so to Hafsa", said Umar.

The Holy Prophet said. "You may, if you like".

Umar cast a glance across the room. The Holy Prophet lay on a bare mat. There was no furniture in the room. There was hardly anything for the Holy Prophet to eat, but a barley bread. Seeing this extreme state of austerity, tears began to trickle from the eyes of Umar.

Unquote:

The questions which need to be asked are:

1) Why did women become more assertive in Medina while they were docile in Mecca at the dawn of Islam?

2) Why did Muhammad choose to leave home and sleep on the floor in the mosque instead of retaliating and prevailing upon his wife's quarreling all night?

But no, these people will not ask these questions. Misogyny rooted in religious tradition is a nice and fashionable concept. That's sufficient to believe.

More for your information/read and heed

WWW.opinionasia.org
Violence against women in India
Neeta Lal | 16 Apr 2007

For a country on a dizzying upward economic growth trajectory, India's treatment of its women is abysmal. Dowry deaths, rapes, molestations and a swathe of other crimes against women are commonplace even amongst the socio-economic elite. But what lends this scenario a surreal twist are the shocking findings of the latest National Family Health Survey (NFHS), a pan-India survey conducted by 18 research organisations (including the International Institute for Population Sciences), according to which a whopping 37.2 per cent of married Indian women regularly experience spousal violence.

The latest NFHS, the third in a series since 1992, reports that gender discrimination is rampant in Indian society with boys having better access to education, food and other amenities and girls comparatively being given short shrift. The NFHS database -- conducted on a representative sample of households throughout India --- is designed to strengthen India's demographic and health policies and provide national-level information about infant/child mortality, maternal/child health and the quality of health and family planning services.

The health survey -- which contains disquieting revelations about the iniquitous status of Indian women – also highlights that India trails in a number of health and development indices, with growth benefits not percolating down to the fairer sex even in urban areas. In fact, women's "empowerment" still remains a chimera, with only half of Indian women -- 61.4% urban and 48.5% rural – participating in household decisions.

The survey, for instance, found Bihar (population: about 82 million, literacy rate: 47 per cent, the lowest amongst all Indian states) to be the most retrogressive address for its women, with a whopping 59 per cent of its women facing regular (and often extreme) matrimonial abuse. Intriguingly, 63 per cent of these cases were reported from urban, well-to-do families rather than backward rural ones. Madhya Pradesh --with an abuse rate of 45.8 per cent and Rajasthan and Manipur with 46.3 per cent and 43.9 per cent respectively – came in a notch below Bihar. The survey also reveals that uneducated women were far more likely to have experienced spousal violence than their educated counterparts.

Interestingly, the worst affected women in the survey are in the age band of between 20 to 40 years, though in some cases even those above 50 report regular spousal battery. Shockingly, though the figure of 37 per cent spousal violence is itself high, experts reiterate that the numbers are underreported and could be higher still, somewhere in the realm of 65 per cent.

The sobering findings lends itself to the question -- why does the land of the Mahatma, that has traditionally viewed "stree" (women) as the embodiment of "shakti" (power) -- ill-treat them thus? Perhaps the answer is embedded deep in the national mindset. Indian women, especially the rural folk, have deep-rooted fears about losing their economic support and shelter if they rebel against a violent spouse. There is also a lurking fear of ostracism which makes them put up with abuse as their "destiny". Interestingly, urban women – educated and economically independent – too, suffer spousal violence though in their case, it usually in the interest of progeny that they stay married. By extension, in the predominantly patriarchal Indian society, the stigma of divorce is still a large cross to bear for battered women, as are the responsibilities of single motherhood.

Also, a strong "martyr" image association – and the pathos generated by the suffering underdog – prevent battered Indian women from fleeing abusive situations. The consequences are damning as nearly 74.8 per cent of abused women, report surveys, are propelled towards committing suicide. But even if they are not driven to such extremity, it spousal violence can negatively impact a woman's mental and physical health, triggering off a slew of psychosomatic disorders.

Unfortunately in India, more national economic prosperity has led to a corresponding upward spiral of crimes against women. The National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) reports that from an average of 125 women who faced domestic violence everyday in India in 2000, the number has ratcheted up to 160 in 2005. Also, more than 19 Indian women are killed for dowry everyday, 50 are raped and 480 subjected to molestation and abduction. The Bureau stated that 45 per cent of Indian women are slapped, kicked or beaten by their spouses with India also having the highest rate of violence against women during their pregnancies – nearly 50 per cent women were kicked while expecting babies with nearly 74.8 per cent attempting to commit suicide.

In a recent study of 3,000 women aged 18-50 years conducted by a pan-India NGO - Sangath - in nine villages in Goa, a popular tourist destination in western India, 14.5 per cent women complained of having an abnormal vaginal discharge due to verbal, physical and sexual violence and psychosocial distress. Depression and anxiety were common complaints amongst these women. Women who complained of vaginal discharge also reported that due to stress, they had meager interest in their daily lives.

According to a recent World Health Organisation (WHO) report, one in six women around the world suffer from domestic violence. Based on a survey of 24,000 women from rural and urban areas in 10 countries, the report noted that female victims of domestic assault were twice as likely to suffer poor health than other women. This kind of abuse was also responsible for the spread of HIV amongst women, as abused women were not in a position to demand safe sex.

A 2005 WHO publication 'Addressing Violence Against Women and Achieving the Millennium Development Goals' defines violence against women along four identifiable acts. These are physical violence (slapping, pushing, choking, burning, threatening with a weapon); sexual violence (forced sex or degrading sexual acts); emotional violence and finally, intimate-partner violence (specifically, domestic violence). The last, says the study, is the most common and universal form of violence experienced by women.

The WHO recommends that prevention of violence should be integrated into health care programs. Indeed there is an urgent need for reproductive health programs to acknowledge the role of gender-based violence and psychosocial distress in addressing the reproductive health needs of women. But health professionals themselves need training to detect victims of such violence and extend psychological counseling to them. This would certainly be a good start as grassroots activists and healthcare volunteers - who work closely with India's victims of spousal violence and hospital personnel handling their cases - report that hospital staff, including doctors, often do not perceive domestic violence as a "health issue" but rather as a "private family matter". Hence, scarcely, if at all, are they willing to go beyond their formulaic role of providing medicine to physically battered women.

However, in a belated but welcome move, the Indian Parliament has, for the first time ever, passed the path-breaking - Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act this year. The Act defines "domestic violence" as all forms of abuse -- physical, sexual, verbal, emotional and economic. Physical violence is defined as "beating, pushing, shoving and inflicting pain" while sexual violence covers a slew of offences such as "forced sex, forced exposure to pornographic material or any sexual act with minors".

The Act also seeks to offer women victims civil remedies hitherto unavailable to them. Until recently, Indian women could only seek recourse in Section 498A of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) to file a complaint against an abusive spouse (which did not give the woman the right, for instance, to stay on in her matrimonial home or to demand maintenance from the abusive partner), the new law now provides her with a civil panacea. The Act also lays down stringent rules to prosecute men who harass/beat/insult their spouses. Partner abuse can now land a man in jail for one year or a fine up to Rs.20,000 (about US$470) or both.

But while the Act, a landmark legislation no doubt, augurs well for human rights, there is skepticism that it may offer little succor to the rural poor (70 per cent of India's populace) who do not place much trust in such laws in any case. In fact, to many illiterate Indian women, "human rights" legislations challenge the well-entrenched notions of individual and community identity. Another fear is that the Act – despite the current ballyhoo swirling around it – may well remain a paper tiger as India has the most abysmal rate of conviction in spite of possessing the world's most exhaustive and complex set of laws. Small wonder, since its passage in January, only one conviction has taken place under the Domestic Violence Act.

So where really does the solution lie to the malaise of spousal violence lie? In quick punitive action against the barbaric male who batters his wife/partner? In enlightening women victims to not suffer in silence and speak up against their injustice? Or with the police/courts who ought to catalyse the delivery of justice? Indeed, the solution is multi-dimensional. In the meantime, the Domestic Violence Act definitely kindles hope by bringing this important issue from the periphery of people's consciousness to the center of national development discourse.
Neeta Lal is an Indian columnist whose pieces appear in 21 national and international publications that include The India Today Group, The Times of India and The Indian Express.

=================================================================



The prevalence of domestic violence, sexual violence and trafficking for sex Violence against women takes many forms.
Domestic violence (physical, sexual, physiological), rape and sexual abuse are worldwide phenomena. Other forms of VAW,
such as sex trafficking and harmful traditional practices, may be specific to particular geographic areas (Watts & Zimmerman 2001).
Women all over the world experience physical violence from intimate partners. For example, 16% of Cambodian women (Nelson
and Zimmerman, 1996) are physically abused by their spouse. In an UK study (Mooney 1993), 30% of women were physically assaulted by partner or ex partner. In West Bank and Gaza Strip (Haj-Yahia 1998), 48% of currently partnered women experienced assault by an intimate partner in past 12 months.
Although limited, the existing evidence indicates that many women are forced or coerced to have sex. Young girls and women are the most vulnerable. Increasing evidence is available of the extent to which girls’ first sex is unwanted or forced. In New Zealand, a study (Dickson et al 1998) on 548 women aged 20-22, found 25% of those who had first intercourse before the age 13, reported it was forced.
In Canada (Randall & Haskell 1995), 17.8% of women reported sexual abuse (rape or attempted rape) before the age of 16.
A study in India reports 26% of 133 postgraduate students were sexually abused by the age 12.
In Kingston, Jamaica (Walker et al 1994), 13% of 452 schools girls aged 13-14 reported attempted rape, and an additional 4% reported completed rape.
Although prevalence data on forced prostitution and trafficking for sex are scarce, it appears to be a growing problem.Women and children are trafficked within, and between countries, particularly in Asia and increasingly
in Eastern and Central Europe and North America are large importers, e. g., an estimated 500 000 persons were trafficked into Europe in

Presenter: Dr C.Watts,
London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, UK,
Based on: Violence against women: its importance for HIV/AIDS
C. García-Moreno, and C. Watts 2000, AIDS , 14(suppl. 3): S253-S265


nothing justifies violence and battery of another human be it a man or woman or even a minor, nothing justifies violence anywhere in the world while nothing justifies use of such statistics in the international political arena if one is sincere to abolish violation of basic human rights of everyone regardless of their nationality, faith, gender or any other aspect, while having gone through this forum it exemplifies the methods used by some commentators in abusing others while this itself batters the primary purpose of this thread in as much as I understand it

Just in case you may not be aware following is a glimpse of statistics of female related Battery and Assault in USA and others you may look up to (as of 2003) while it has consistently progressed not curbed:
Violence against Women Statistics
Rape
• Each year, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner related
physical assaults and rapes. (CDC Intimate Partner Violence Fact Sheet, 2006)
• Nearly 20% of women in New Hampshire say they have been raped.
(NH Coalition Against Domestic and Sexual Violence, University of New Hampshire,
and state authorities, 2007)
• In the U.S. Central Command region, which includes Iraq and Afghanistan,
the number of U.S. servicewomen's reported sexual assaults rose
from 24 in 2002 and 94 in 2003 to 123 in 2004. In the U.S. military overall,
the number of assaults reported by U.S. servicewomen in 2004 increased to
1,275—25% higher than 2003's total, and 41% more than in 2002. (reported
in the Washington Post, May 7, 2005)
• In a survey of women in Seattle's Puget Sound area, 11% said they had
been raped by their partners. (Group Health Center for Health Studies,
Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center and the University of Washington.
Reported in Seattle Times, May 16, 2006)
• One in six American women has been the victim of an attempted or
completed rape, and 10% of sexual assault victims are men. (2004 National
Crime Victimization Survey)
• Approximately 1.5 million women and 834,700 men are raped and/or
physically assaulted by an intimate partner each year. (CDC “Preventing
Violence Against Women Program Activities Guide”)
• Nearly two-thirds of women who reported being raped, physically
assaulted, or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former
husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. (CDC “Preventing
Violence Against Women Program Activities Guide”)
• More than half of all rapes of females occur before age 18, and of
these, 22% occur before age 12. (CDC “Preventing Violence Against Women
Program Activities Guide”)
• According to a report in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, 28% of
female U.S. veterans reported sexual assault during their careers, with
consistent rates found across eras (Women's eNews, 3/30/03).
Battery/Abuse
• More than 50% of women in New Hampshire state they have
experienced abuse. (NH Coalition Against Domestic and Sexual Violence,
University of New Hampshire, and state authorities, 2007)
• The Attorney General of Iowa has noted an increase to 20 murders from
domestic abuse in 2006, up from 15 in 2005 (KWWL Iowa, April 2007).
• Nearly half of the women surveyed in the Puget Sound area of Seattle
reported that they had been physically, sexually or psychologically abused by
their partners at some point in their adult lives. Thirty percent said they
had been hit. (Group Health Center for Health Studies, Harborview Injury
Prevention and Research Center and the University of Washington. Reported in
Seattle Times, May 16, 2006)
• Nearly three in four family violence victims are female – 73%. (U.S.
Bureau of Justice, June 2005)
• An estimated 5.3 million intimate partner violence (IPV)
victimizations occur among U.S. women ages 18 and older each year,
resulting in nearly 2.0 million injuries, more than 550,000 of which
require medical attention. (“Costs of Intimate Partner Violence Against Women in
the United States,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2003)
• IPV victims lose a total of nearly 8.0 million days of paid work—the
equivalent of more than 32,000 full-time jobs—and nearly 5.6 million days of
household productivity as a result of the violence. (“Costs of Intimate Partner
Violence Against Women in the United States,” Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention, 2003)
• The costs of intimate partner rape, physical assault, and stalking
exceed $5.8 billion each year, nearly $4.1 billion of which is for direct
medical and mental health care services. (“Costs of Intimate Partner Violence
Against Women in the United States,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
2003)
• The total costs of IPV include nearly $0.9 billion in lost productivity
from paid work and household chores for victims of nonfatal IPV and $0.9
billion in lifetime earnings lost by victims of IPV homicide. (“Costs of
Intimate Partner Violence Against Women in the United States,” Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention, 2003)
• In Texas, more than 185,000 incidents of domestic violence occurred
during 2003. (Texas governor's office)
• Family violence accounted for 11 to 33% of all violent crime from
1998 to 2002, depending on whether the source was victimization surveys or
police data (U.S. Bureau of Justice).
• Family violence remains under-reported. About two in five incidents were
not reported to police from 1998 to 2002. (U.S. Bureau of Justice)
• Non-fatal intimate partner victimization for females was about four
victimizations per 1,000 persons age 12 and older in 2004, down
from about 10 in 1993. Overall, only 21% of female victims and 10% of
male victims contacted an outside agency for assistance. (Bureau of Justice
Statistics)
• Studies in the U.S., Israel, Canada, Australia, and South Africa found that
40-70% of female murder victims were killed by husbands or
boyfriends. (World Health Organization)

Re: # 70
I notice izuber saying quite clearly in his post as following:

This does not justify violence anywhere but read:
http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/domviolence.htm

I think izuber makes it quite clear here that the rate of violence by those who claim to rigorously scrutinize the records and statistics of other countries and declares them hostile and more to benefit by this virtue are not as clean themselves which includes more than USA itself in addition to other EU countries while the record of women burning in India is overwhelmingly high.
Those who sit in glass castles should be careful about throwing stones at others.
On the other hand you appear to call him a goat head while you seem to be suffering from a denial syndrome.

maulana urstruly...

here's another chart

http://www.moe.gov.pk/Enrolment%20by%20Stage,%20Gender%20and%20Location %202005-06T5.pdf

Take at the look at the enrollment numbers at the primary,middle and high school levels. They are disproportionately tilted in favor of males. Then the women catch up.

what that means isn't that your women are doing better...it means that your male students suck..they're dropping out in very high numbers...

#93 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2008 5:56:51 pm

Umm...no..it only proves that muslim women, when given an opportunity, prefer to get their souls sucked out of their bodies by participating in the workforce at a higher number than back in their home countries...

so maybe some paki woman living in the west can tell us why they're such suckers for punishment...do paki women living in the west enjoy the soul sucking that comes from participating in the workforce..

Re: # 81

"...A country where according to their own statistics of FBI a woman is raped every 20 seconds, I think they should better put their own house in order first than point fingers at others... "

The same can and should be said for us.

#91 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2008 5:52:12 pm

here's what you said..


the number of women in higher education is 75% vs. 25% men in Pakistan alone.


Table 9: Number of Students Produced by Level of Degree during 2001-04.

Male:61799
Female: 56257

Are you numerically challenged? Does that looks like a 75%-25% split?

Lets take bachelor degrees

Male: 40350
Female:41714

Does that look like a 75%-25% split to you?


but I'd like to rub it in your face anyway


yeah pal..way to go..you really won that one..

p.s. I'm not even going to comment on the ridiculously low number of grads overall...

Re: # 87

this goes against your origina;l thesis, now doesn't it?

http://www.hec.gov.pk/QualityAssurance/statistics/Student%20Output.htm

Re: # 86

so today you are an atheist? ok, so I will scratch off hindu and then catholic as claimed in past, from my little black book.

Anyway these are the statistics of higher education in pakistan, male vs. female - not that a hindi religious nut like yourself hasn't checked it already, but I'd like to rub it in your face anyway:

http://www.hec.gov.pk/QualityAssurance/statistics/Student%20Output.ht m

{"I read somewhere that the most scary thing about helping is being involved. I would like to think that I worked against my fear and got involved. The probability that a woman’s life is in danger are very high, and my simple knock on the door is not enough. One needs to break these walls and protect these brave women to be truly empowered by being mobile, and by gaining some mutually assured destruction for peace in the household."}

Aisha,
You have written a wonderfully bold and suspense-filled article about a tired old ridiculous and cowardly act that seems to be a residue of mankind's not so primate past.

I certainly hope that the brutal event did not end with your benign intervention in this man's pursuit of power. I hope you told this man about his diminishing manhood and I hope that you turned him over to the authorities, or at least shamed him in the eyes of all of his neighbors.

Re: # 60

Hurricane sahib,

[Re:Kulharee, pakistan3,
izuber has said nothing offensive. You may think Islam is the root of all troubles, I think otherwise. It is a beautiful religion and I am hapy and proud to be a muslim.]

Hurricane sahib, where did I say anything against Islam? I am a practicing and passionate Muslim and resent being regarded otherwise.

I was talking in the context of some, taking it upon themselves to "evaluate" the Pakistani situation, social or otherwise, and dictate what Pakistan should or shouldn't look like when they chose not to live here themselves. As if we are part of some "experiment" for them.

By the same token, if where they live is SO bad and un Islamic, they are more than welcome to return to their motherland.

We can all share its fortunes and misfortunes, eat "aadhi roti" but with pride and make it work. No one should just assume the right to tel us what we should do when they don't actually live here!

Surely that is not a difficult point to understand?

I have to get going.

Allah nigehbaan

bj people respond to the context they see. Once someone has made it clear to me what they actually believe i believe them. I dont look at their past posts to find evidence of conspiracies or continue in my preconcieved biases.

You should try having an open mind one of these days, i swear it wont kill you. You think lynching someone is more important than having them confess to the truth, thats your outlook not mine. His strong last statement is the one that counts ab us ka peecha chor do.

I am perpectually going to be a criminal in your estimation no matter what i say and for what its worth let me tell you your praise is not what im out to get. Thanks for understanding.

#72 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2008 1:50:18 pm

A follow up...If participating in the workforce is such a soul sucking experience, why do muslim women living in the free west have a higher workforce participation number than the women living in the land of the free?

#72 Posted by Urstruly on May 11, 2008 1:50:18 pm


the number of women in higher education is 75% vs. 25% men in Pakistan alone. This bursts your myth right there.


Setting aside the fact that the numbers you quote are straight from the famous paki thinktank PIROMPA - The Pulled It Right Outta My Paki Ass institute - would a comparison of percentages only be valid if the overall number was high enough?




As far as workforce participation is concerned one must ask at what cost. The woman in west has to abandon family, relationships and home to build a career.


yeah..let's not give the bitch a choice to participate in the workforce...she'll just open her mouth and drive everyone nuts anyway...


In America only now a woman is running for presidents' post and her being a woman is number one issue.


I believe the number one issue is the women in question being a female of the canine species with no ethics or morals whatsoever...but then you must be reading some other number...PIROMPA number perhaps?


I do not expect much from you since you are a hindu, who have no moral or societal code


That would be atheist with no moral or societal or ethical code..

look pal...as appealing as the thought of a beltway free of soccer moms sounds, you don't have a leg to stand on...

p.s. do pakis not grasp the concept of the internet and how easily fake numbers can be debunked?

Re: # 84

Khaalajaan, I wonder why your [Thanks for clarifying.] in #84 reminds me of the part [I said, oh, and walked away.] from the piece.

The bottomline is the mullah will do his hee and haw, and his song/dance routine and the women will get beaten up and the rest of the "women" will go along with it as long as they satisfy themselves with the pretense of making a protest and perhaps even thank him while he keeps poisoning the minds of men and women and ...

And nothing will get done.

Nothing EVER gets done!

The "izzatdaar" position of the Islamic women that miaN truly so eloquently describes will stay unchallenged, perhaps forever.

Aisee izzat se to maut bhali!

Like the Big B sang - Arrey lalloo, ye jeena bhi koi jeena hai?!

"Raising hand on women whether wife, or sister, or even of no relation is despicable and beneath the dignity of a man; there is no if, and or but, period"

There is no dirth of propaganda against muslims and islam, loads of people read these posts and will form an opinion of the world based on them.

I think we should not inadvertently give people the wrong impression of what we believe in because that certainly doesnt help our cause.

I am relieved to read your last post and learn what you actually believe. Your earlier posts were not reflective of what you actually think, at least in my opinion. Thanks for clarifying.

Re: # 81

The following "Look at hindus - the femicide is an organized and institutionized practice in every family there; millions of helpless women are thus killed every year in their society and with what face they come here to give us lectures on wife beating."

should be read as "Look at hindus - the femicide is an organized and institutionized practice in every family there; millions of helpless women before even they are born" are thus killed every year in their society and with what face they come here to give us lectures on wife beating.

Re: # 79

Thanks for your prayer. May Allah return you with thosand times more.

Re: # 80

I think my response to hurricane below is quite candid. Raising hand on women whether wife, or sister, or even of no relation is despicable and beneath the dignity of a man; there is no if, and or but, period.

However, we must be careful here. Such incidents happen in every society, every country; but only west rubs it into others face to ride their moral high horses. A country where according to their own statistics of FBI a woman is raped every 20 seconds, I think they should better put their own house in order first than point fingers at others.

Look at hindus - the femicide is an organized and institutionized practice in every family there; millions of helpless women are thus killed every year in their society and with what face they come here to give us lectures on wife beating. Doctors in many European and North American countries refuse hindu women to abort their fetuses as a governmental policy. The Hindu society today is living in in an era of 1500 years ago when men used to burry their infant daughters alive for fear of financial hardship and indignity. Our Holy Prophet (pbuh) came and emancipated those helpless souls from certain death. And these ignoramus langoors would not spare even him from their insults.

so you are saying its not justified but there is no need to condemn it?

badtameezi is ugly and there is no need for you or me to do it, im just asking you questions.

Re: # 77
SubhanAllah, I am impressed to see that some here are as polite as you in your approach.

May Allah SWT bless you with honor.

Under no circumstances one is to beat another soul unless they are in a appropriately incepted Jihad fi sabeel lillah, and even during Jihad one is not intentionally kill the other if there is a slight chance of capturing the enemy.
With regards to woman's status in Islam it is very clear but it is due to the level of illiteracy among Muslims who only know that the man is the head of the household and nothing beyond that so they go to establish their administration in all the wrong ways they are able to.

Re: # 75

Delete "thats justified because" from your first paragraph then answer is yes. And thats the point I have been making all along.

Thanks for speaking to me politely; a badtaneez aurat is the ugliest creature in universe. So is a man, if it makes you happy, therefore, it is said that khush ikhlaqi mard ka zewar hay/

arjun i.e. a train without the engine that is known as brain you are not dignified enough to be commenting on any of these issues you go worship your idols till they speak back to you.
This forum is not meant for your indulgence, so stay within your dhoti till your arse is burned and beaten while being burned by your qualifying sons who will lit the fire to burn you providing you a hell immediately as you cease to exist.

So if a woman has an emotional outburst and her husband beats her vicously in response are you saying thats justified because there is an understandable reason?

and ive been speaking to you politely too, so i dont think you are doing me any favors.

As for choti aqal i think you are pretty much the champion on that but only someone with superior aqal would understand that, so clearly you cant.

Re: # 73

I suppose that your post was addressed to me. I think you have either a problem with reading comprehension or you are desperately trying to prove the myth "aurat choti aqal" to be true.

What I wrote in my several posts below is a fact that there is always a reason that wives get beat up; and their uncontrolled outbursts are one of the biggest reasons.It is just another debate whether those reasons are valid or invalid or beating them is a justified response or not. Nothing in this world happens without a reason ok?

I would have spoken to you nicely, which I usually do to all women, hadn't you used the word "mysogyny". This is slave-speak; dump it. You will do just fine with your indegenous diction.

The best way to contradict stupid biases about misogyny in pakistan is to not write posts saying women who talk too much are soul crushers and hence justifiably get beaten up by their unfortunate yet noble and brave "real men" husbands.

There is a legit reason why people speak out against misogyny, its not always to bash pakistan.

Just because you may have met some depressed american women it doesnt mean poverty and powerlessness is better than prosperity and emancipation. You may not know the poor destitute miserable beaten women living all over pakistan personally but they exist in overwhelming numbers and their lives are miserable.

Dont belittle the horrible cruelties they live through just because you met 2 depressed women in america and have subsequently decided life for average paki women (not bhutto's)is so brilliant that nothing needs to change.

Re: # 71

It is a myth that women in america are doing quite well. By all measures they are quite miserable as compared to women in Muslim societies. Lets take, your measures education and workforce particpation etc. If we take into account male vs. female ratio of education; the number of women in higher education is 75% vs. 25% men in Pakistan alone. This bursts your myth right there. As far as workforce participation is concerned one must ask at what cost. The woman in west has to abandon family, relationships and home to build a career. The average age of childbearing of women with career is 35+ when biological clock is around its last laps. At this stage in panic they run to egg banks or marry a chronically unemployed slob who would rear kids for them.If this is the cost of a career then Pakisatni/Muslim women are the best career women in the world. They have a full time career at home where wage is paid in nothing but love, dignity, and respect. I have been to America; I have spoken to american women about the life of Pakistani women; one must see their faces, the feeling of utter loss, emptiness, and guilt when they compare themselves with the women in Pakistan. There goes your myth again. About participation which is a highly subjective term, yes the women in the west have greater participation but again at what cost. In Pakistan alone a woman has been a Prime Minister twice but never being woman has been an issue for her - even from the religious orthodoxy. In America only now a woman is running for presidents' post and her being a woman is number one issue.

I do not expect much from you since you are a hindu, who have no moral or societal code of their own and always have to look outside for a dignified way of living but unfortunately some slave minded Muslims also subscribe to your point of view. These are extremist retard mongols who are so shortsighted that they cannot see a single good thing in our society. You can only pitty them.

#64 Posted by HP on May 11, 2008 12:14:06 pm


Is it true that Christians, Hindu, Sikh,and Jews have stopped beating their wives?


christian, hindu, sikh and jewish women are doing way better than islamic women..

Take any measure..education, achievement, workforce participation...

if you're saying that this is because christians, hindus, sikhs and jews beat their women, then maybe you need to beat your women more...sorta like eight belles..

#66 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 12:47:00 pm


This does not justify violence anywhere


Umm...you're doing exactly that..justifying violence by saying it happens in america too..if you're not, then statistics from america, where women are doing way way better than those in islamofascist countries, is as relevant as traffic statistics on the beltway...

#67 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 12:48:27 pm

goatbrain: are you seriously comparing the status of israeli women with those of women in islamic countries?

It is an intense issue while some are buying into establishing NGOs appearing to be women rights organization aspiring to collect Grant funds from various resources and so-called think tanks that are busy using the statistics of a nation to portray its marred image in the international arena affecting other implications against such nations while failing to look under their own arms.
Its a big game played on the lives of many women around the world selectively.

more @ http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/The%20Advancement%20of%20t he%20Status%20of%20Women%20-%20Israel%2020

Since its establishment in 1948, the state of Israel has had the image of a country in which women enjoy full equality. This image, due to the liberal and socialist ethos of the Zionist movement, is, however, somewhat misleading. There are many areas, in which traditions, social institutions, religious rules, and even laws have kept women at a disadvantage: in the workplace, in divorce proceedings and as victims of violence. Changes in the political and economic climate, such as the Middle East conflict onflict in the Middle East and the influx of thousands of guest workers, have created new problems. The widening economic gap in Israeli society, along ethnic and geographical lines, points to the entrenchment of poverty and disadvantage in particular groups. Old women, single mothers, Arab women, immigrants from Ethiopia and the former Soviet Union and foreign workers (with or without work permits) are most vulnerable to poverty, health problems and abuse of basic rights. Women as a group are disadvantaged in the labor market, the health system, education, the courts and religious institutions and are subject to harassment and violence.

This does not justify violence anywhere but read:
http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/domviolence.htm

Domestic violence continues to invade the public and private lives of women, men, and children, impacting families, friends, co-workers, and communities. These behaviors--whether physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological—continue to occur in all homes regardless of education, income-level, or geography.

I encourage all individuals and groups to use October, designated as National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, to help raise awareness. Domestic violence is not only a personal tragedy, it is a serious crime that negatively affects women, men, children, neighborhoods and communities. We must join together to address the causes of this crime so that each and every home can be a place of peace and safety.

The Office on Violence Against Women (OVW) continues to make vital contributions to help those negatively impacted by domestic violence. In recognition of Domestic Violence Awareness Month, OVW has launched a powerful public service announcement (PSA), airing this month, to continue to raise awareness and increase education. This PSA, entitled “End It Now,” will target men, women, children, and the general public. Our goals at OVW are to encourage prevention and facilitate a greater public dialogue.

On August 28, 2007, I attended the grand opening of the New Orleans Family Justice Center. OVW made $3 million available to help create this support center, where victims can find the services they need in one central location. Through programs like the Family Justice Center communities are being transformed.

Let us take the opportunity this month to speak out and help others who have been impacted by domestic violence. I urge you to actively participate and show your support for Domestic Violence Awareness Month by getting involved with your state or local domestic violence program. At OVW we believe, “working together to end the violence” is the first step. We are all agents of change, whether we work locally in the community or as part of a large government agency. Thank you for doing your part to raise awareness.

Re: # 64
It further does not mean that it exists in all households across the board but it is deplorable in the strongest terms wherever it exists.

Is it true that Christians, Hindu, Sikh,and Jews have stopped beating their wives?

In what way this article is religion specific? This is a common social issue as old as the human race itself. Aisha did a good job in showing the problem in Pakistani society but it does not mean that this problem exist only in Pakistan.

Re: # 54:
"flashing your 6th century Arabian garbage that is no longer applicable even in the place it started in. Only an idiot will compare place of women in Islam to that in Christianity and Judaism, why can’t it stand on it’s own merit? You know why? Because it has no legs to stand on"

May your own name (kulharee) fall on your obese minority heathen neck for uttering such non-sense!

From the one who bestows Rizq and blessing upon all of us:

Al-Baqara
2:212 The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will.

Al-Yunus
0:31 Say: "Who is it that sustains you (in life) from the sky and from the earth? or who is it that has power over hearing and sight? And who is it that brings out the living from the dead and the dead from the living? and who is it that rules and regulates all affairs?" They will soon say, "(Allah)". Say, "will ye not then show piety (to Him)?"

Al-Hajj
(This verse tells about those who take a step in the name of Allah SWT be it migration or to defend the land)
22:58 Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision.

(In the Ayah below, Allah SWT does not discuss anywhere that should the believer be located in Pakistan, China or North America)
24:38 That Allah may reward them according to the best of their deeds, and add even more for them out of His Grace: for Allah doth provide for those whom He will, without measure.

An-Naml
27:64 Or, Who originates creation, then repeats it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the truth!"

Al-Ankabut
29:60 How many are the creatures that carry not their own sustenance? It is Allah who feeds (both) them and you: for He hears and knows (all things)

SAba
34:24 Say: "Who gives you sustenance, from the heavens and the earth?" Say: "It is Allah. and certain it is that either we or ye are on right guidance or in manifest error!"

Fatir
35:3 O men! Call to mind the grace of Allah unto you! is there a creator, other than Allah, to give you sustenance from heaven or earth? There is no god but He: how then are ye deluded away from the Truth?

Ghafir
40:40 "He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure

Ash-Shura
42:19 Gracious is Allah to His servants: He gives Sustenance to whom He pleases: and He has power and can carry out His Will.

At-Talaq
65:3 And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.


Al-Mulk
67:21 Or who is there that can provide you with Sustenance if He were to withhold His provision? Nay, they obstinately persist in insolent impiety and flight (from the Truth).


2:13 And when they are told, "Believe as other people believe," they answer, "Shall we believe as the weak-minded believe?" Oh, verily, it is they, they who are weak-minded -but they know it not!


An-Nisa
4:54 Do they, perchance, envy other people for what God has granted them out of His bounty? But then, We did grant revelation and wisdom unto the House of Abraham, and We did bestow on them a mighty dominion:

An-Nahl
16:90 BEHOLD, God enjoins justice, and the doing of good, and generosity towards [one's] fellow-men; and He forbids all that is shameful and all that runs counter to reason, as well as envy; [and] He exhorts you [repeatedly] so that you might bear [all this] in mind.

Re: # 56 hurrican

There is nothing macho about a man who beats his wife; as a matter of fact anyone who does this is nothing but a miserable littel piece of ....

You have correctly pointed out as to what causes such a transaction. As the urdu proverb goes you cannot clap with one hands. So we must have a balanced overview while looking at behavioral misconduct on part of both men AND women.

Kulharee, pakistan3,

izuber has said nothing offensive. You may think Islam is the root of all troubles, I think otherwise. It is a beautiful religion and I am hapy and proud to be a muslim.

izuber is pointing out that the mullah worldview is at odds with the teachings of Islam.

Please direct your vitriol instead, at the mullahs who are perpetuating anti-islamic teachings.

#37 Kulharee

I am glad you'd asked. Holy Prophet (pbuh) has set a very high standard for the rest of humanity viz a viz women. It needs a book to describe these standards and this short post cannot do justice. He gave the women the first human right, that is life, where a girl infant was burried alive and father would hide his face with shame for days if a baby girl was born in his house. Isn't it the case in many societies in the world where female fetuses are aborted everyday for their crime of being a female. He said " a woman is as delicate as a rose, (treat her as such". He would stand up when his own duaghter used to visit him. Once a man came to him and said that he had helped his mother perform hajj while carrying her on his shoulders because she was too old and frail; so did he pay his debt of duty towards his mother or not? The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said "not even; you couldn't even pay the debt of one night when you were an infant, you wetted the bed; your mother put you on the dry side of the bed while she slept all night on the wet side of the bed."

These are the standards that our Prophet has set for us. The cornerstone of these standards is balance, justice, and equity. So he said to one group of women once " You know; most of the women will go to hell for one single reason; because they often say to their husbands "the whole life you have done nothig for me". So kulharee has your wife ever told you this that you have never done anything for her. What is your reaction then?

You see; this is called the balance and equity. My problem with western style of women's right is that they protray men as monsters who are just out their eating little girls. This is pathetic. The consequence of this is that in their society now men are marrying men and women are marrying women.

Yes in Muslim world women get the raw deal but there are overwhelming number of muslim men too who would give their lives in love for their daughters, wives, mothers, and other women in their lives.

If in Muslim world women get a raw deal, then so do they in Western world, where woman has been reduced to a cog in the big capitalist economic wheel; she has been deposed from her privige as a mom, a wife, and sister. I know it is not politically correct to say it, but what he position of woman in west is any different than of a prostitute? heck men won't even own the children begotten by them.

So if womens right is important, then they should strive to get back their priviliges first, starting from west.

Re: # 57

izuber, I have already said what I had to say here and on the other site with HP.

What a hypocrite you are !!

Allah nigehbaan

Re: # 55
buzz off to your rizk-givers where you have brought up your three generations according to Allah's teachings. If you had such belief, why did you not wait and look for RIZQ here?

This is where your Islam begins or ends?

Wait and look for Rizq? go learn from the teachings of Islam, the Quran the Hadith and then come back to post another time.

Those who keep sitting by the well dont quench their thirst, it takes one to move and make an effort, that people typical to your thinking fail to do, because Allah SWT has said that HE does not help those who do not help themselves.

May Allah SWT bless you & me with wisdom to appropriately understand and place things where they belong and avoid entangling un-necessarily, ameen.

Volume 3, Book 48, Number 847:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three:
(1) whenever he speaks, he tells a lie,
(2) whenever he is entrusted, he proves to be dishonest,
(3) whenever he promises, he breaks his promise.

Urstruly,

Your comment about "women are asking for it cause they are running their tongues" lacks basic humanity.

In relationships both male and female lash out at each other and push each other's buttons. In the indian pakistani culture, the man considers it macho to beat the shit out of somebody. Since he is typically not able to pick fights with men as they may be stronger, and since the woman is typically weaker, that's where the man becomes sher. Really macho. Wow.

In the pakistani culture, there is an added "mullah" dimension that makes it ok to hit women, if they misbehave.

Did the prophet ever hit his wife? Me wonders.

This is not a religious issue. This is a fundamental issue of how we treat each other.

I think if a man does want to thrash his wife etc, it should at least be a level playing field where she can bring a knife or a gun to the fight.