When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough

Re: # 73

I suppose that your post was addressed to me. I think you have either a problem with reading comprehension or you are desperately trying to prove the myth "aurat choti aqal" to be true.

What I wrote in my several posts below is a fact that there is always a reason that wives get beat up; and their uncontrolled outbursts are one of the biggest reasons.It is just another debate whether those reasons are valid or invalid or beating them is a justified response or not. Nothing in this world happens without a reason ok?

I would have spoken to you nicely, which I usually do to all women, hadn't you used the word "mysogyny". This is slave-speak; dump it. You will do just fine with your indegenous diction.

The best way to contradict stupid biases about misogyny in pakistan is to not write posts saying women who talk too much are soul crushers and hence justifiably get beaten up by their unfortunate yet noble and brave "real men" husbands.

There is a legit reason why people speak out against misogyny, its not always to bash pakistan.

Just because you may have met some depressed american women it doesnt mean poverty and powerlessness is better than prosperity and emancipation. You may not know the poor destitute miserable beaten women living all over pakistan personally but they exist in overwhelming numbers and their lives are miserable.

Dont belittle the horrible cruelties they live through just because you met 2 depressed women in america and have subsequently decided life for average paki women (not bhutto's)is so brilliant that nothing needs to change.

Re: # 71

It is a myth that women in america are doing quite well. By all measures they are quite miserable as compared to women in Muslim societies. Lets take, your measures education and workforce particpation etc. If we take into account male vs. female ratio of education; the number of women in higher education is 75% vs. 25% men in Pakistan alone. This bursts your myth right there. As far as workforce participation is concerned one must ask at what cost. The woman in west has to abandon family, relationships and home to build a career. The average age of childbearing of women with career is 35+ when biological clock is around its last laps. At this stage in panic they run to egg banks or marry a chronically unemployed slob who would rear kids for them.If this is the cost of a career then Pakisatni/Muslim women are the best career women in the world. They have a full time career at home where wage is paid in nothing but love, dignity, and respect. I have been to America; I have spoken to american women about the life of Pakistani women; one must see their faces, the feeling of utter loss, emptiness, and guilt when they compare themselves with the women in Pakistan. There goes your myth again. About participation which is a highly subjective term, yes the women in the west have greater participation but again at what cost. In Pakistan alone a woman has been a Prime Minister twice but never being woman has been an issue for her - even from the religious orthodoxy. In America only now a woman is running for presidents' post and her being a woman is number one issue.

I do not expect much from you since you are a hindu, who have no moral or societal code of their own and always have to look outside for a dignified way of living but unfortunately some slave minded Muslims also subscribe to your point of view. These are extremist retard mongols who are so shortsighted that they cannot see a single good thing in our society. You can only pitty them.

#64 Posted by HP on May 11, 2008 12:14:06 pm


Is it true that Christians, Hindu, Sikh,and Jews have stopped beating their wives?


christian, hindu, sikh and jewish women are doing way better than islamic women..

Take any measure..education, achievement, workforce participation...

if you're saying that this is because christians, hindus, sikhs and jews beat their women, then maybe you need to beat your women more...sorta like eight belles..

#66 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 12:47:00 pm


This does not justify violence anywhere


Umm...you're doing exactly that..justifying violence by saying it happens in america too..if you're not, then statistics from america, where women are doing way way better than those in islamofascist countries, is as relevant as traffic statistics on the beltway...

#67 Posted by izuber on May 11, 2008 12:48:27 pm

goatbrain: are you seriously comparing the status of israeli women with those of women in islamic countries?

It is an intense issue while some are buying into establishing NGOs appearing to be women rights organization aspiring to collect Grant funds from various resources and so-called think tanks that are busy using the statistics of a nation to portray its marred image in the international arena affecting other implications against such nations while failing to look under their own arms.
Its a big game played on the lives of many women around the world selectively.

more @ http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/8/The%20Advancement%20of%20t he%20Status%20of%20Women%20-%20Israel%2020

Since its establishment in 1948, the state of Israel has had the image of a country in which women enjoy full equality. This image, due to the liberal and socialist ethos of the Zionist movement, is, however, somewhat misleading. There are many areas, in which traditions, social institutions, religious rules, and even laws have kept women at a disadvantage: in the workplace, in divorce proceedings and as victims of violence. Changes in the political and economic climate, such as the Middle East conflict onflict in the Middle East and the influx of thousands of guest workers, have created new problems. The widening economic gap in Israeli society, along ethnic and geographical lines, points to the entrenchment of poverty and disadvantage in particular groups. Old women, single mothers, Arab women, immigrants from Ethiopia and the former Soviet Union and foreign workers (with or without work permits) are most vulnerable to poverty, health problems and abuse of basic rights. Women as a group are disadvantaged in the labor market, the health system, education, the courts and religious institutions and are subject to harassment and violence.

This does not justify violence anywhere but read:
http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/domviolence.htm

Domestic violence continues to invade the public and private lives of women, men, and children, impacting families, friends, co-workers, and communities. These behaviors--whether physical, sexual, emotional, economic, or psychological—continue to occur in all homes regardless of education, income-level, or geography.

I encourage all individuals and groups to use October, designated as National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, to help raise awareness. Domestic violence is not only a personal tragedy, it is a serious crime that negatively affects women, men, children, neighborhoods and communities. We must join together to address the causes of this crime so that each and every home can be a place of peace and safety.

The Office on Violence Against Women (OVW) continues to make vital contributions to help those negatively impacted by domestic violence. In recognition of Domestic Violence Awareness Month, OVW has launched a powerful public service announcement (PSA), airing this month, to continue to raise awareness and increase education. This PSA, entitled “End It Now,” will target men, women, children, and the general public. Our goals at OVW are to encourage prevention and facilitate a greater public dialogue.

On August 28, 2007, I attended the grand opening of the New Orleans Family Justice Center. OVW made $3 million available to help create this support center, where victims can find the services they need in one central location. Through programs like the Family Justice Center communities are being transformed.

Let us take the opportunity this month to speak out and help others who have been impacted by domestic violence. I urge you to actively participate and show your support for Domestic Violence Awareness Month by getting involved with your state or local domestic violence program. At OVW we believe, “working together to end the violence” is the first step. We are all agents of change, whether we work locally in the community or as part of a large government agency. Thank you for doing your part to raise awareness.

Re: # 64
It further does not mean that it exists in all households across the board but it is deplorable in the strongest terms wherever it exists.

Is it true that Christians, Hindu, Sikh,and Jews have stopped beating their wives?

In what way this article is religion specific? This is a common social issue as old as the human race itself. Aisha did a good job in showing the problem in Pakistani society but it does not mean that this problem exist only in Pakistan.

Re: # 54:
"flashing your 6th century Arabian garbage that is no longer applicable even in the place it started in. Only an idiot will compare place of women in Islam to that in Christianity and Judaism, why can’t it stand on it’s own merit? You know why? Because it has no legs to stand on"

May your own name (kulharee) fall on your obese minority heathen neck for uttering such non-sense!

From the one who bestows Rizq and blessing upon all of us:

Al-Baqara
2:212 The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will.

Al-Yunus
0:31 Say: "Who is it that sustains you (in life) from the sky and from the earth? or who is it that has power over hearing and sight? And who is it that brings out the living from the dead and the dead from the living? and who is it that rules and regulates all affairs?" They will soon say, "(Allah)". Say, "will ye not then show piety (to Him)?"

Al-Hajj
(This verse tells about those who take a step in the name of Allah SWT be it migration or to defend the land)
22:58 Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision.

(In the Ayah below, Allah SWT does not discuss anywhere that should the believer be located in Pakistan, China or North America)
24:38 That Allah may reward them according to the best of their deeds, and add even more for them out of His Grace: for Allah doth provide for those whom He will, without measure.

An-Naml
27:64 Or, Who originates creation, then repeats it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the truth!"

Al-Ankabut
29:60 How many are the creatures that carry not their own sustenance? It is Allah who feeds (both) them and you: for He hears and knows (all things)

SAba
34:24 Say: "Who gives you sustenance, from the heavens and the earth?" Say: "It is Allah. and certain it is that either we or ye are on right guidance or in manifest error!"

Fatir
35:3 O men! Call to mind the grace of Allah unto you! is there a creator, other than Allah, to give you sustenance from heaven or earth? There is no god but He: how then are ye deluded away from the Truth?

Ghafir
40:40 "He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure

Ash-Shura
42:19 Gracious is Allah to His servants: He gives Sustenance to whom He pleases: and He has power and can carry out His Will.

At-Talaq
65:3 And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.


Al-Mulk
67:21 Or who is there that can provide you with Sustenance if He were to withhold His provision? Nay, they obstinately persist in insolent impiety and flight (from the Truth).


2:13 And when they are told, "Believe as other people believe," they answer, "Shall we believe as the weak-minded believe?" Oh, verily, it is they, they who are weak-minded -but they know it not!


An-Nisa
4:54 Do they, perchance, envy other people for what God has granted them out of His bounty? But then, We did grant revelation and wisdom unto the House of Abraham, and We did bestow on them a mighty dominion:

An-Nahl
16:90 BEHOLD, God enjoins justice, and the doing of good, and generosity towards [one's] fellow-men; and He forbids all that is shameful and all that runs counter to reason, as well as envy; [and] He exhorts you [repeatedly] so that you might bear [all this] in mind.

Re: # 56 hurrican

There is nothing macho about a man who beats his wife; as a matter of fact anyone who does this is nothing but a miserable littel piece of ....

You have correctly pointed out as to what causes such a transaction. As the urdu proverb goes you cannot clap with one hands. So we must have a balanced overview while looking at behavioral misconduct on part of both men AND women.

Kulharee, pakistan3,

izuber has said nothing offensive. You may think Islam is the root of all troubles, I think otherwise. It is a beautiful religion and I am hapy and proud to be a muslim.

izuber is pointing out that the mullah worldview is at odds with the teachings of Islam.

Please direct your vitriol instead, at the mullahs who are perpetuating anti-islamic teachings.

#37 Kulharee

I am glad you'd asked. Holy Prophet (pbuh) has set a very high standard for the rest of humanity viz a viz women. It needs a book to describe these standards and this short post cannot do justice. He gave the women the first human right, that is life, where a girl infant was burried alive and father would hide his face with shame for days if a baby girl was born in his house. Isn't it the case in many societies in the world where female fetuses are aborted everyday for their crime of being a female. He said " a woman is as delicate as a rose, (treat her as such". He would stand up when his own duaghter used to visit him. Once a man came to him and said that he had helped his mother perform hajj while carrying her on his shoulders because she was too old and frail; so did he pay his debt of duty towards his mother or not? The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said "not even; you couldn't even pay the debt of one night when you were an infant, you wetted the bed; your mother put you on the dry side of the bed while she slept all night on the wet side of the bed."

These are the standards that our Prophet has set for us. The cornerstone of these standards is balance, justice, and equity. So he said to one group of women once " You know; most of the women will go to hell for one single reason; because they often say to their husbands "the whole life you have done nothig for me". So kulharee has your wife ever told you this that you have never done anything for her. What is your reaction then?

You see; this is called the balance and equity. My problem with western style of women's right is that they protray men as monsters who are just out their eating little girls. This is pathetic. The consequence of this is that in their society now men are marrying men and women are marrying women.

Yes in Muslim world women get the raw deal but there are overwhelming number of muslim men too who would give their lives in love for their daughters, wives, mothers, and other women in their lives.

If in Muslim world women get a raw deal, then so do they in Western world, where woman has been reduced to a cog in the big capitalist economic wheel; she has been deposed from her privige as a mom, a wife, and sister. I know it is not politically correct to say it, but what he position of woman in west is any different than of a prostitute? heck men won't even own the children begotten by them.

So if womens right is important, then they should strive to get back their priviliges first, starting from west.