Nipa Chowrangi

Perhaps its wiser to legalise only the beating of women who identify themselves as Muslims.. and let all the normal people get on with their lives... after all ... they surely must as Muslim women condone themselves being given a good beating now and them...

hello she is the cheese :) good to hear you read it. looking forward to reading yours one day. when do i get to see you in a context that does not involve the consumption of coffee and cookies or a long long plane trip? love to the moose.

anNy: I wondered what happened to you 6 years ago - you had mentioned some incident just before you stopped writing, and I was hoping all was well with you.

Good to see you back - you were among the best chowk posters.

yes, anNy, we have grown older but not necessarily colder.

If you have time, you should consider re-starting your 'what are you reading series?' here.

6 years later and chowk retains it er, magic...:)

shandana, i hope you wont mind my referring to the book here.. i had a friend post tunnel vision from home since it wasnt to be found here and would you believe it, book actually got to me safe and sound... ayesha is stuck in my head and she wont leave

Re: # 64
And how do Indian alpha-males behave? Have you been able to prevent all the bride-burning episodes in India?

Re: # 63
ABCD, why must Krishna concern himself with 'halaal' and 'haraam'?

love it. aslam is a good instance of the creature that is the pakistani male.

#60 Salim_Chauhan

[Thank you for your extensive research on the subject. I am impressed by the number of different translations that you have read. ]

You mean the translations that mention that beating your wife is "halal"? Thanks.

#58 harish_hyd

[AFAIK, Shandana is a Christian. BTW, why are you picking on her? ]

AFAIK, I asked her a question. Whether she is Muslim. Why is that "picking on her"?

Re: # 60
Mr. Chauhan,

There are websites for these comparisons!

Although I am glad (al-hamdu lilah) that people are now in the comparison mode at CHOWK, quoting so many does not mean one has read them all. And reading all translations does not mean one has grasped the inner truth of ayahs or understood the translators' tilts.

Regards.

Krishna,
Thank you for your extensive research on the subject. I am impressed by the number of different translations that you have read.

why does Shandana's religion matter. Does what she wrote have anything to do with religion?

#57 by krishna_abcd

AFAIK, Shandana is a Christian. BTW, why are you picking on her?

Hey Shandana,

Are you another proud Islamic woman?

#54 by Salim

Aslam is a good Muslim. He is doing what is clearly sanctioned in Islam. Anyone who spins it otherwise, is merely "interpreting" the text to his/her convenience.

(please note - all occurances of beating "lightly" in the quotes below are interpretations by the translator - the qualification "lightly" is absent in the actual text)

1. Yusuf Ali:

"....As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

2. Pickthal:

"...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

3. Shakir:

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

4. Al-Hilali & Mohsin Khan:

"....As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great."

5. Dr. T.B. Irving:

"...Admonish those women whose surliness you fear, and leave them alone in their beds, and [even] beat them [if necessary]. If they obey you, do not seek any way [to proceed] against them. God is Sublime, Great."

6. Muhammad Sarwar:

"...Admonish women who disobey (God's laws), do not sleep with them and beat them. If they obey (the laws of God), do not try to find fault in them. God is High and Supreme."

7. Rashad Khalifa

"....If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme."

8. Abdul-Majid Daryabadi:

"...And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand."

9. E.H. Palmer

"...But those whose perverseness ye fear, admonish them and remove them into bedchambers and beat them; but if they submit to you, then do not seek a way against them; verily, God is high and great."

10. Muhammad Ayub Khan:

"...And those whose rebellion you fear, admonish them and leave them alone in the beds, and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; God is surely High, Great."

11. Ahmed Raza Khan:

"...the women from whom you fear disobedience, (at first) advise them and (then) do not cohabit with them, and (lastly) beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek to do injustice to them; indeed Allah is Supreme, Great."

12. Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmad Darwish:

"...Those from whom you fear rebelliousness, admonish them and desert them in the bed and smack them (without harshness). Then, if they obey you, do not look for any way against them. Allah is High, Great."

13. Mahmud Y. Zayid:

"...and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

14. Muhammad Asad:

"...And as for those woolen whose ill-will" you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them ;4s and if thereupon..."