The Wrong Mix

nasah: the reason everything is pre-fixed with "Islamic" is because that is the maulvis way of control.

Read #12 below to see how maulvis hijacked the democracy movement against the shah; same way the taliban came out of their khhoods in refugee camps in pakistan after the russians were pushed out of afghanistan by the "lion of panjshir valley"

hamidm: and did the Quran tell the maulvi to abuse the microphone? and did the Quran tell the muslims to make sure the water in the sink is transferred to the floor? did the Quran recommend suicide bombings? did the Quran tell the muslims to sacrifice animals like a bunch of savages? did the Quran say that it is meant to be memorized by human parrots? did the Quran instruct you or your friends to squat on the floor??

Re: # 15

nasah,

"pathological obsession with mixing Islam with everything else" ...... you are right... these moslems cannot even take go to the bathroom or have sex without bringing in islam - you know that they have a special prayer for these ordinary everyday acts ?

Why can't the 'progressive' Muslims keep Islam and socialism separate? -- Why it has to be either Islamic socialism or socialist Islamism? -- what a pathological obsession with mixing Islam with everything else!

Btw -- why mix decadent Islam with decadent socialism?

Re: # 13

zeemax,

yes, i have to suffer a lot of fools and moslems ..... i have to put up with the risk of slipping on the floors of public bathrooms made wet by moslems splashing water all over the floor, i have to suffer the sight of moslems washing their feet in sinks, i have to suffer watching them eat with their finger like ordinary hindoos and then belching, i have to suffer the screaming of the muezzin at ungodly hours, i have to suffer from the fear of suicide bombers, i have to suffer television programs being interrupted by a kid screaming with his hands on his ears, i have to suffer the sight of blood in the streets and the smell of rotting ojris after eid, i have to suffer the excruciating pain in my ankles when i squat on the floor like a hindoo to appease my moslem friends, i suffer ......... you don't realize how much i suffer because of your inablity to behave like civilized human beings ..... please stop it !

#3 Posted by hamidm2

.... till then ...(*)... will have to suffer.. moslems in particular ....

Does that include you? Are you suffering?

Thank you Nadeem for your thought-provoking article.

As an Iranian, reading almost all of the works of Dr. Ali Shariati from cover to cover, I am afraid I cannot agree with your comments about him. He was a true Muslim, not an "Islamic Marxist," a slogan invented by the Shah of Iran and his notorious intelligence agency (SAVAK). Shariati was not interpreting Marxism through Islamic symbolism. In contrast, he read Islamic scripts, particularly the Quran, with his own socialist and especially democratic views.

However, I cannot agree more with this argument:

Historians suggest that much of the groundwork for the 1979 Iranian Revolution was done by Mojahiden-e-Khalq and Shariati, but as the revolution drew nearer, the clergy started attacking [them].

hamidm: actually there is more research done on the evolution of the Quran in the early years in Germany than anywhere else..and that makes it only that much more of an interesting book.

They dont read the Quran in Pakistan anyway - as urstruly can testify, the Pakistani "Islam" is Magic, nor religion. Just the other day, urstruly was explaining how the prophet split the moon in two..

cheema sahib: USA is a free society - and in free societies we dont fear books. You should be helping me calm hamidm's irrational fear of books rather than joining him in his fears...

This is a good, informative, and well researched article.

In my opinion Islam finds itself at odds with both marxist and capitalist systems. I think social democratic model is relatively more compatible. The marxist system or commune system is un-natural and goes against the human nature. The capitalist system has two flwas:

1. It cannot generate wealth and hence it has to pump wealth into its system through colonialism nad military backed monopolization of markets.

2. Economy is entirely based on Interest; without interest it will collapse in the matter of days. Interest is the biggest hurdle in creation of wealth; as a matter of fact it is a sink hole for the existing wealth. In order to overcome this there is no resort but to take the step 1.

With these two steps the whole system becopmes that of winners and losers. Winners thrive at the loss of losers. This creates an incredible amount of aggravation among the loser segment of humanity. In reaction to this misery the idelogies like, marxism, socialism, communism etc. emerged. Unfortunately that was nothing but swinging from one extreme to the other.

Re: # 6

tahmed,

..... not to worry - i have it trapped tightly between irshad manji and ibn warraq with russell rigtht next door ...... it is the arabic version that mrs hamidm keeps locked up in a dust covered velvet case on top of the bookcase along with old board games that has me worried ..... i don't want the kids to find it .....

..... but seriously speaking, the koran can be rendered harmless like mein kampf or das kapital if we translate it into german ......bad ideas don't last long in german .....

Re: # 6; tahmed sahib,

what hamidm wrote is TRUE though don't you think?

Khuda Hafiz

hamidm: make sure you look under your bed before going to sleep - there may a Quran hiding there, ready to jump up and eat you up the moment you let your guard down.

Only yesterday there was a Quran walking around asking for your whereabouts..but you are safe because I told it there was no Hamidm around. But, just to be safe, I think you should have a pair of sneakers ready to make a dash for it if the the Quran spots you..

Nadeem,
Socialism & Communism does not match with nationalism or Islam. They are far better concepts. When you are waging Jihad, what sort of socialism you are talking about. I had couple of communist friends with all hues. Only in one matter, they used to agree. Socialism will be successfull, if you impose that throughout the world. In isolation, it fails.
When a Russian scientist is paid less for the similar work done by an european scientist, he is almost forced to migrate to the europe...
If socialism failed in advanced country like Russia, it is bound to fail in other places. China is cunning enough to come out of this trap. They have grown from very poor to not so poor country...

Nadeem,
Socialism & Communism does not match with nationalism or Islam. They are far better concepts. When you are waging Jihad, what sort of socialism you are talking about. I had couple of communist friends with all hues. Only in one matter, they used to agree. Socialism will be successfull, if you impose that throughout the world. In isolation, it fails.
When a Russian scientist is paid less for the similar work done by an european scientist, he is almost forced to migrate to the europe...
If socialism failed in advanced country like Russia, it is bound to fail in other places. China is cunning enough to come out of this trap. They have grown from very poor to not so poor country...

Re: # 1

zeemax,

... for once you and i agree .... koranic texts do not have to be distorted to legitimize feudalism, orthodoxy, and women's oppression....... even in their purest and most unadulterated form the koran and hadith promote these evils ..... on the other hand, the koran has to be distorted to promote civilized behavior .... many have attempted to do so and hopefully they will keep on trying despite the dangers of being branded as heretics and losing their heads .....

..... it will take a long long time to reform islam and find the right mix .... till then mankind will have to suffer.. moslems in particular ....