The Wrong Mix

NFP Sahib,

this is not from amongst your better articles.

It needed more meat and appears to just scratch the surface!

Ali Shariati extended Iqbal's thought processes to the

point that joint days of recognition for both had begun

to be held.

Shariati was just plain brilliant!

His "Civilization and Modernization" is a reflection of

that brilliance. I wonder how many CHOWKIES have read it?

Ras

Re: # 90 It is not very kind to criticise both gentleman they gave service to the motherland. Please note both are and were successful gental in area of finance in advanced country like usa. They tried best amy be failed but failure is not crime. What is better done by home grown finance ministers. It is not easy to change economy for better there is no magic. Indian prime minister is also bank man he has not been not successful to do much , but indians do not speak with such attitude. If we show such attitude the people like aziz why they should come to pakistan destroying their future prospects. I do not much remember what mr. Q did , but he was requested to help for short time as hardship and he did job and went to back usa. Then why expak experts with knowledge why they should damage themselves and come to ungrateful people ?
Now Mr Aziz tried his best and he aimed and failed due to many factors but failure is not crime but low aim is . As you know as you are in USA MR.Aziz lost chance of his life to become president of city bank of usa ( largest bank in usa ). For pakistan he told bank he will not accept position then his subordinate some Kashmiri Hindu has become president of Bank. Now that was big loss accepted by mr. Aziz for this country of motherland. He copuld have told general and rejected his request to come on sabatical to help the economy and he did his best. Now he was failure as no body was listening to him . He could not impliment his financial reform. He tried to sell white elephants like PSM and what not and it was rejected by court. He was able to get rid of lragest city power company and now it is now saudi investor problem as people just take out all juice illeagaly. Even saudis who are benefactors they do not know how to stop this financial bleeding it is black hole financially same way PSM. But p-eople do not liked him as he asked people to sacrafice ( he sacraficed by his own example by refusing to become president of bank).
Plerase blame our national attitude do not make scape goat of people like aziz who made sacrafice for ungrateful people. This gives bad message to expak , please do not come , whatever good you do will paid with ingratitude. All people who leave are better educated and are successful people and average man on street is proud of them. WE know they bring good name to country by serving as doctors, managers, scientist, bankers. There are idols of people and they are aspirations for average man as he knows he works hard his children can also go to places like usa and everybody proud. You can criticise then but DO NOT CONDEM THEM, they did their best. Finally we living here have to carry our cross ( nobody can help even mr. J.Christ told people who came out to carry his cross, pleas do not every body has to carry his and for son of god also) , No qureshi or Aziz can help. We have to work hard and children work hard and then they will go to west. No easy way.

Please do not paint mr. Aziz as villan or evil man, he may not be good pm or finance but he carried hois cross till end of regime.

Please calm down
Good luck good day.

Re: # 94, 19.4% growth is very best by any standard. How much is hindu growth rate presently ?
Good day

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Masadi, can you explain to me what would humans do in your future, when machines continue to produce more and more and human intervention is going to be minimal? Sit around and study sociology?

#78 Posted by bulleya,

It was played in Capital Talk today. This is really unbelievable. Abdullah Yousaf, Chairman CBR, inviting Musharraf to dance with him on "Sanoo nehr waley pul tey bula key' and Musharraf accepting.

This undoubtedly strengthens Urstruly's guillotines argument.

Since the time Moeen Qureshi was sent by global soodkhors as a peon of West to "manage" Pakistan , Pakistan has been forced to practice unbridled capitalism. The second peon, shoukat aziz, sent by the same soodkhors made sure that all the red blood in pakisdtani veins is replaced by the yellow serum of capitalism.

So here we are, twenty years later - food has disappered form markets; people are selling their children for food; there is no electricity in the country; gasoline is being sold at prices as if Pakistan is situated in europe; pak rupee is not even worth the value of a toilet paper as comaperd to dollar; lawlessness has reached a stage where people have started setting criminals ablaze since law enforcement has ceased to exist; and citizens are hunting down public and political officials to guillotine them thru suicide bombings; mothers are throwing their children in front of the trains.

This is all a curse upon us of a system called capitalism, the most exploitative system man has ever invented to make humanity miserable. Oh Lord! deliver us from this evil. Oh Lord have mercy on us.

Hamid writes "mad masadi,.."

The "madness" in me might yet be your salvation.....fool

g'night

No you idiot (that would be hamid), I'm saying that socialism is conducive to Islam while capitalism is the way of the Shaitan towards which the mullahs run blindly

Hamid writes "mad masadi,

.... so you are saying that communism plus god and his prophet equals islam ???

.... now i have heard everything !!! "

No you idiot, I'm saying that socialism is conducive to Islam which capitalism is the way of the Shaitan towards which the mullahs run blindly. You cannot generate the values promoted by Islam (socially) under the relationships of production set in motion by capitalism- thus by running towards capitalism saying "there is god in that system" and socialism is "godless", the mullahs, the idiots that they are, running headlong towards what is the undoing of a Muslim community, and what they are left with are empty slogans and the shaitan's promises of deception, as he butchers the souls of humanity, Muslim, Christian or whatever....

Re: # 84

mad masadi,

.... so you are saying that communism plus god and his prophet equals islam ???

.... now i have heard everything !!!

There is no such thing as "Islamic Socialism", those who talk about it dont know what Socialism is and they don't know what Islam is. Socialism refers to an evolutionary stage that comes after the inevitable collapse of capialism (which cannot be prevented in the Marxian formula) and is a transitory period of adjustment where the state plays the role to get rid of the vestiges of capitalism for communism to emerge in which there will be no state.

In Islam, ownership of the means of production is not confined to the state, neither is ownership private as in capitalism for it to be exploitive, humankind is considered trustee of Allah and not owner of anything, and in fulfilling the trust of whatever he or she "owns" is a set portion for redistribution of surplus wealth. In this redistributive function, in which the state plays an active role is where Socialism resembles Islam, and not in the state's ownership of the means of production.

Now, in a community type society with common values, the Quranic formula is easily applied and can lead to great egalitarianism and "entrepreneurship" (to quote anil favourite phrase), by unleashing human talent that is for the vast majority kept underdeveloped by capitalism. Such a forumla however, cannot work in a capitalist society where values are diverse and deliberately manipulated and created to benefit the owners of the means of production, because they moreso than the masses dominate the state and the predominant value that is incorporated in a structure generated by them is greed and the value of acquiring wealth. In other words in their system, no good deed goes unpunished! So just as socialism is a transitory evolutionary stage to reach "communism", so I say for Muslims to form a society that guarantees basic human needs and results in the development of the kind the Quran talks about, they must pass through socialism given the mode of production of our times, otherwise the masses will keep bickering and fighting, and the elite will use the name of Islam for anything and everything while fulfilling every dirty agenda of the West.....

Anil writes "Madani Sahib:

"...Mr. Anil what about hindu socialism ? ..."

Madani sahib, this person is a certified idiot and peon of the West. He talks "individualism" where it concers the poor and the downtrodden so that they get blamed for their misery which is system generated, on the other hand he forgets all about "individualism" where it comes to the powerful corporations, which have assumed the character of an individual (for the entire collectivity) and actively seek the intervention of governmen to both bail them out and protect them from competitiors or loot wholesale like barbarians from the public as in the S&L debacle and recently in the sub prime crisis or the Enron BS and the likes. He then sanitizes all of this by saying its "enterpreneurship" as if that's some magic word for legitimizing monopoly control of wealth and knowledge (by applying patents) and keeping the vast majority of humanity chasing after crumbs for mere survival, keeping them under or un educated, and under or unemployed and then saying that they will compete with those who are well fed and attend the top private institutions....