The Wrong Mix

Nadeem:

Yaar, don't take this the wrong way, but please bring us back some more fiction (other than this article which is being called fiction)

Barai meh'rbani ho gi. :)

Re: # 29 Mr. Anil what about hindu socialism ? I expect most commies and followers are hindu right ? So why criticise islamic socialism.

Z A Bhutto was socialist leader. I think lots of his problems has problem in his drinking alcohol. He was for equality and socialist but his friend religious man Kasuri got him in alcohol big way and in such hangover was influenced about his decision abvout "ahmedis". Now days many are for alcohol moderation but there is no moderation in alcohol. Initially man controls alcohol but later alcohol controls him. This I wrote as it is fashionable amoung socialist to drink, smoke and zina sex ., disrespect of traditions and contempt of common man,and they think too highly and of them selves and lazy , loose talk,etc and worst they are proud and think as they are making revolution. Big talk, no action and drinking, smoking and going foreign has killed socialism in Pakistan. Last hope of socialism was Mrs Bhutto and now she is gone.

But things are not bad. Japanese are high on pakistan and send their top boss.
"Toyota Tsusho chairman visits Indus Motor plant



Tuesday, May 20, 2008
By our correspondent

KARACHI: Toyota Tsusho Corporation (TTC) Japan’s Chairman M Furukawa recently visited the Indus Motor Company.

Senior officials of the IMC briefed him on the assembly-line processes and was gave a presentation highlighting IMC’s performance and achievements. He also reviewed on-going expansion projects of the company, which include a press-plant for making car-body parts, automation of production lines, etc.

Furukawa praised the quality of Toyota and Daihatsu vehicles assembled at the plant and also appreciated the company for increasing its production capacity. Furukawa also presented an award to IMC’s management on achieving the milestone of over 50,000 vehicles sale for 2007. He reiterated TTC’s ongoing commitment and support to IMC for further expanding production facilities.

Indus Motor Company chairman Ali S Habib thanked Furukawa for visiting Pakistan and appreciated Toyota Tsusho Corporation’s role in supporting Indus Motor’s both in becoming a major auto-manufacturer as well as a significant contributor to the economy of Pakistan."

This quite significant as japan has achieved what all socialists of pakistan want, minimum wage garanttee and food water and house ( Roti Kapada and makan).

Now socialist = communist- dedication is my defenition.
Now they want to have advantage of "prestige of communist" but generally no guts as usa controlled pakistani govt cracks on them. They want to have both ways support of poor and they want to live like western people.

Problem with pakistani left, socialist is lack of hard work to organise oppressed class and no cader. They are always tails of Mullahs and what not.

Now only socialist who are bit successful and with popular support is indian marxists. They are establishment. They have 3 elected governers pronices and they have all india trade union organization. They are part of present govt. Now they elected 1st elected communist province govt. They get defeated and and get elected.

Second is nepal a hindu nation, they gave big backing to marxists. It appears they will drive out king may be z and N can lean from mr. Prachanda of nepaL.

This feat even china socialist can not do and they can not allow elections.

Why is India and nepal have strong left democratic marxists and we have none, no influence of socialism ?
Intelluctuals can answer. Except different race and religion and color there is no difference. Colorwise socioalist ideas came from white people so we are more near to white race. We have great western influence but there is no profound impact of ideas of socialism though we have good feudalism and capitalism and tradesman ship. I feel socialism will be next step. Hope intelluctual who have travelled world and studied socialism etc can throw light on plight of socialistic ideas. Before I use to feel its related to meat eating and due to that miond becomes hot headed but india is also hot temp country and same way nepal. Reason may be in india nehru univ etc brainwash and make socialist, mr. Prachanda learned abc of marxism in nehru college of delhi some say.

Good day everybody.

This article is replete with factual inaccuracies, typically committed by a moron who wants to write a 'research' artcle using his imagination.

So ZAB was inluenced by the 'Arab Socialism' in the Middle East?! WTF?!!

Paracha wouldn't know research even if he renamed his dildo with it.

islamists and commies

pehle mo, phir mao...

Nadeem Sahib:

You really got carried away in giving title "Islamic" to socialism. Hitler had used National as the adjective for his brand of National Socialism.

There was nothing remotely spiritual or even socialist about when Arab Nationalism was started by Gamal Abdel Nassar. He saw an alignment with Nehru, Sukarno and Chou En Li. Jakarta Conference of Non-Aligned Movement was the result. Staying on the Arab Nationalism, Egypt for a long time was called "United Arab Republic" and had notional union with Syria and Iraq. Geo-politics of oil would never have let this happen. Nationalization of Suez Canal became the reason to unify. Soviets jumped in to help build Aswan Dam, when America backed to support England and France on Suez Canal. Colonialist could not hold on the canal, and the U.S. made more strategic mistake to support colonialists after refusing to support Ho Chi Minh.

I am also in search of that magical "Ummah" or "Islamic" identity which seems to elude but so talked about. As the people who talk about it tend to get identified with "Islamic" terrorism, therefore any "Islamic" or religious name as the adjective is harmful. Please keep Islam (religion) and socialism out.

It is really about Arab Identity, earlier it would have been called, Arab Nationalism.

HP,

Yeah, did a quick google and the idea seems to be very fuzzy. But wiki did lead me to the Tatars and how their sharia based revolt metamorphed to particiapation in the Red Army and how they were ultimately purged by Stalin. Interesting! Didn't know anything about it.

GT,
Islamic Socialism
Some peoples party web site may have more in on it.

"One of the notable persons in this context was the leader of the Pakistan People's Party, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who lived from 1928 to 1979 and became Prime Minister of Pakistan. He promoted Islamic socialism after the Islamic scholars declared him and his system to be atheist."

Nadeem is using this definition from wiki Which is just pile of shit.

"Islamic socialism is a term coined by various Muslim leaders to counter the demand at home for a more spiritual form of socialism. Orthodox Islamic scholars declare socialists to be atheist, and declare various socialist programs, such as the confiscation of private property, to be oppressive and against Islamic teachings. Muslim socialists, on the other hand, believe that the teachings of Muhammad are compatible with principles of equality and the redistribution of wealth.

The first experimental Islamic commune was established during the Russian Revolution of 1917 as part of the Wäisi movement, an early supporter of the Soviet regime. The Muslim Socialist Committee of Kazan was also active at this time also.

One of the notable persons in this context was the leader of the Pakistan People's Party, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who lived from 1928 to 1979 and became Prime Minister of Pakistan. He promoted Islamic socialism after the Islamic scholars declared him and his system to be atheist.

Muammar al-Qaddafi, who seized power in Libya with a military coup in 1969, called his ruling ideology "Islamic socialism".

Siad Barre, who came to power in Somalia during the revolution of 1969, called his ruling and economic policies as "scientific socialism".

Other notable Muslim socialists include:

* Rafi Ahmed Kidwai
* Haji Misbach

Islamic Marxism

Islamic Marxism has been used to describe Ali Shariati [Shariati and Marx: A Critique of an "Islamic" Critique of Marxism by Assef Bayat] and the 1979 Iranian revolution, including the parties that came into power following the revolution, eg Ruhollah Khomeini and Mojahedin-e-Khalq Organization [1]

See also

* Arab Socialism
* The Green Book
"

GT,
You are right it should be "means of Production".
I hope people would make the necessary correction.

Thanks.

"The way in which society organizes production. Marxists claim that the system of ownership of the means of production is the foundation of all social systems, and that the superstructure—the politics and ideology of a society—takes its character from the mode of production. "

HP:

I did not know that there was a term called "Islamic Socialism" and that it was coined by the PPP. Can you suggest a reading/reference on it. By the way, you write:

"....groups that own the modes of production."

One does not own a mode of production. Feudalism and capitalism are, for example, modes of production.

This is really a pathetic attempt by Nadeem to distort history. The word Islamic socialism was coined in Pakistan by the PPP after it came under pressure from the religious parties led by Jamaat Islami. PPP manifesto just said, “socialism is our maishaat(economic program)” that was later changed to Islamic socialism.

However, there was no link or not even a hint of Islamic in the Arab socialism.

Calling the Arab socialism, Islamic socialism is like eating a huge pile of shit from the current western propaganda that is putting the word Islamic in front of everything that has anything to do with the Muslim majority countries.

Egyptians, Algerians, PLO, Syrians or Iraqi never called it Islamic socialism and always stuck with the Arab Socialism or later Baathism. A little research by Nadeem on this topic would have helped him immensely.

None of the leaders of the Egyptian, Libyan or even Syrian coups were socialist per se. The Egyptian coup against King Farooq was led by Gen Najib and Col Nasser was his deputy. The reason behind the coup was the perceived weakness of King Farooq in handling the Israel-Arab conflict. The 1948 defeat had shown that the political government lacked the will to fight Israel and pretty much had no money to modernize the Egyptian army. Gen. Najib was removed by Col. Nasser and Sadat soon after. The western world was okay with Gen. Najib but when Nasser took over and Nationalized the Suez, the West was completely pissed off. Nasser had to take over the Suez because the Egyptians really had no other source of income and they needed the revenues from the canal to modernize the Army.

We all know the rest of the history. Nasser and his coup leaders had no choice but to seek Soviet Union’s help to counter the Anglo-French-Israel attack on the country. Throughout the war and immediately after that, the Western media labeled Nasser, a Fascist. He was not called a Socialist for nationalizing Suez but was called a Fascist to link him with Hitler and implying that he was anti-Jewish.

We now see the same line of propaganda repeated against the Arabs and the Muslims. They are now ‘Islamofascist’. Simply, if you are against the Israeli hegemony in the Middle East and you oppose the systematic Arab ethnic cleansing from the Palestine, you become Islamofascist. Disregard the fact that Israel is following the true fascist policies in Palestine.

After the war, the Egyptian military leaders became socialist. How did that happen?

Here is the story behind that.

Whenever the Soviet Union helped a country, they wanted that country to adopt some socialistic policies or change their political orientation to socialism. Communists used to have a thesis behind everything duly approved by the Polit-Bureau in Moscow. And the thesis in this instance was that the political and the State powers are controlled by the groups that own the modes of production. The country seeking the Soviet help was supposed to remove the individual capitalist control over the modes production and they were supposed to follow an economic and political model that ensured that there is no political opposition to the pro-Soviet governments. So, all the countries that for whatever reason sought the Soviet Union’s help nationalized major industries, financial institutions and other large scale units to eliminate the sources of political oppositions.

Now I hope people can see the true reason behind, Egypt, Syrian, Algerian and other Arab countries turning socialist. Some of these Arab countries had no intellectual base to even understand socialism.

India, too, after signing the agreement with the Soviet Union in 1971 nationalized major institutions and added socialism to the Indian constitution. One more leader that took the same route and paid a heavy price for that was Allende of Chile, Bangladesh too, despite the fact that the poor country had nothing to speak for at the time, nationalized banks and Jute mills etc.

Pakistani nationalization had a little different background but the source was the same doctrine.

#14 Posted by hamidm2,

Yes all that. But are you suffering from discrimination being a 'Social Muslim' and in name etc, because of the actions of a few (insignificant ... and to be bombed out) Muslims, like Taliban or Al-Qaida (whatever that is)?

All these diversionary tactics to derail the conversation from topic at hand by Slave Dynasty means only one thing that Paracha has hit a raw nerve somewhere.

Re: # 14

Hamidm Sahib:

"...when i squat on the floor like a hindoo to appease my moslem friends...."

I did not know Muslims are appeased so easily. Now that you have learned something from Hindoos, haven't? Please do not be ingrattiating toward Hindoos. Become vegetarian, when you are angry at Muslims, squat on the floor when you want to appease Muslims.

Now, what would it be when squat on the floor, and eating vegetarian food?

hamidm:

"you are right... these moslems cannot even take go to the bathroom or have sex without bringing in islam - you know that they have a special prayer for these ordinary everyday acts ?"

Islamic verses are encouraged to be read during and right after sex. Here are quotes from Imam Ghazali's "Etiquettes of Marriage":

- It is desirable that it [sex] should commence in the name of God and with the [following] recitation: Say, “He is God, the One and Only” [Qur’an 112:1]

- When you near ejaculation, say to yourself without moving your lips: “Praise be to God Who has created humans out of fluid, and made thereof relatives and in-laws, for thy Lord is omnipotent.”

Re: # 16

Hamidm Sahib:

"...special prayer for these ordinary everyday acts ?..."

What is the prayer for sexual act? What is it suppose to do?. Give son, then we can market it in India, quite well.