Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State

Re: # 32

cheema sahib,

..... i don't know much about iqbal other than the fact that he was gay :

mohabbat mujhey un naujawanon say hai
sitaron pay jo daltay hain kamand

RE: #31 hamidm2

Mian I am only too aware of the strange behavior of "our"

people. Pasted below is from Dawn today which you may

find interesting if you replace Iranian with Islamic:


Call for ban on import of ties in Iran

TEHRAN: A top Iranian customs official has called for imports of ties to be banned because they are “against Iranian culture,� the Fars news agency reported on Thursday, amid a crackdown on unIslamic dress.

“Imports of some apparel are not banned but serious action should be taken to stop the import of ties which contradict the nature of Iranian culture,� state customs bureau deputy head Asghar Hamidi was quoted as saying.

“We need to change the country’s import regulations to this end,� said Hamidi, who is also head of a state plan for the “development of culture, chastity and the veil.�

The wearing of ties was promoted under the deposed US-backed Shah. But has been banned in government offices since the 1979 Islamic revolution as a sign of westernisation.

Members of Iran’s Basij militia on occasion even went out on to the streets armed with scissors to snip off the offending accessory in the post-revolution period.—AFP

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Since I have not been wise enough to use another name

to write and interact with on CHOWK, fortification is

not possible, but after reading the above I want to reach

for the Blue (if I could afford it) but will accept the

Black.

Re: # 34; tahmed sahib
"Dasht to dasht hain darya bhi na chorey hamnay
Bahr-i zulmaat men daura diy-e ghorey hamnay"

The correct translation of 'bahr-e-zulmaat' is "the ocean of darknesses"...so there

Unfortunately for you, Iqbal (or 'Baala Kashmiri' as I affectinately call him) was absolutely spot on in his analysis....the horses, along with their riders, did indeed jump into the "ocean of darknesses" and remain therein to date....

take care

cheema sahib #29 iqbal wrote that in order to spread Islam:


Dasht to dasht hain darya bhi na chorey hamnay
Bahr-i zulmaat men daura diy-e ghorey hamnay
(Trans:
Not just the deserts, we did not even stop at the rivers,
We kept our horses running all the way to the Atlantic Ocean)

On the spread of Islam, far from calling for running horses all the way into the Atlantic, the Quran calls for living in peace and affection with people of other religions. Not getting into quarrels with them on matters of religion. That all religions are from God, and the Quran is merely the "arabic Quran".

Thus - the difference could not be more stark between Iqbal's Islam and Quranic Islam. So, good try, but you cant lump the two.

Re: # 32

"and further strengthen the cause propagated relentlessly"

just wanted to make it clear that I have no idea of what 'the cause' is; I am, however, reliably told by every passionate member of the Ummah (from a nai/kasai ...all the way to the top of the heirarchy) that there IS one....w'allah-u-alam

Re: # 31; hamidm sahib,

I am extremely concerned sir. Given that Allama Iqbal was very recently described by an eminent scholar on this very forum as the best thing that happened to the Ummah since sliced bread (or was it pot-noodle?), no one seems to want to elaborate on his 'philosophy' here!!

I am not asking for the sun or the moon, am I? I completely understand it is difficult to describe all his life's achievements in a few minutes, but surely there is such a thing called "the essence" of what he said?

Its like we all know what Karl Marx believed, or Nietsche, Kant....so on; at times all of them didn't make sense but at the end of the day, they all have certain 'labels' to describe what they stood for.

I wonder what Iqbal stood for? What is the 'essence' of "Iqbalian philosophy"? Questions that, for the time being remain unanswered. This gives the 'enemy' ammunition to draw, perhaps wrongly, their own conclusions and further strengthen the cause propagated relentlessly by the jews, hindus and mirzaees.

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 30

ras sahib,

.... a couple of months ago i suggested to my mosque karta dhartas that they should invite irshad manji to speak at their monthly dinner .... when they looked at me as if i was crazy, i suggested tarek fatah - they looked at me as if i was even crazier ..... most of them think that i am a mirzaee agent because at various times i have also suggested bingo on friday nights to raise money and i have the habit of wandering over to the women's side when the men go to say their prayers - i find it rather odd that most moslem women are exempt from praying ..... they say that they are menstruating and therefore cannot present themselves in front of the moon god in their 'unclean' state ...... but i think it is not possible for over half the women to be menstruating at the same time ! ..... i think it has more to do with wrinkling their clothes and messing up their hair (i am glad to report that the majority of women at my masjid have not adopted the arab hijab - there are a few fat and ugly women who drape themselves in an abaya and cover their head, but the way i see it, the are doing all of us a favor ) .........

.... now you must be wondering why i go to a mosque in the first place - because i am a moslem ! ... but don't worry, i only go a couple of times a year and usually i go properly fortified with a couple of stiff drinks which helps me put up with the stupidity of the ummah and their screaming brats who run wild in that place ....... actually, it is a lot of fun if you are fortified - it is like watching a scary b movie after smoking a joint ..... the food is pretty good and you always get to hear some really raunchy punjabi jokes ..... sometimes it is hard to imagine these jokers flying planes into tall buildings or blowing themselves up, but you can never tell .... some of them could be one namaz away from going over to the dark side - they have that empty look .......maybe it is because their women are menstruating all the time ........ only allah knows ....

If I am not mistaken, Tarek used to interact on CHOWK

and possibly still does.

The problem he tries to expose is bigger than his book

attempt. Inshallah the Ummah will one day see the light.

He is right on the money on many counts. He should be

read and evaluated by more people in spite of the

reputation that he has developed.

Re: # 27; tahmed sahib
" iqbal may, maybe and perhaps, have been OK for his time (i.e. to shore up the muslim ego at a time when muslims were no longer lording it over anyone"

just keep going with the concept; I am sure it can be much more liberally applied to many other sources of islamic fiction that define the fundamentals of its mythology tahmed ji!

one of them (the islamic counterpart of the Iliad and Odyssey) is oft quoted by none other than yourself ad nauseum

Tahir mian,

Are you suggesting that this Tarek character is a murtid?

Regards

#22 hamidm: iqbal may, maybe and perhaps, have been OK for his time (i.e. to shore up the muslim ego at a time when muslims were no longer lording it over anyone, but instead were downtrodden themselves).

however, today habib jalib is far more relevant..

Re: # 24

hp.

.... tariq fatah is a heretic and persona non grata in the muslim community ........ he is irshad manji's male counterpart .....

Re: # 11
Tahir...
Ans: Some people are born stupids or scoundrels. You can not implant proper human value system...
If you are living comfortably in a foreign land, you should be thankful to them what you are getting...

This review may actually be better than the book itself. I have heard abt Tariq Fatah and visited his blog and I appreciate the political stand that he has taken in Canada. Sometimes he appears shrill.

Re: # 22; hamidm sahib,

I don't know how it goes where you live but in 'inglistan' we have the "top shelf" reserved for books of a more discretionary nature.

btw; I only started learning Urdu properly at age 14; that doesn't mean I don't understand what he wrote....far from it. I like his choice of words and vast vocabulary, ability to manouver language to get his point across....I have read him in Persian too via translations of course. Also his PhD thesis and the "reconstruction" lecture series, as I mentioned before.

please don't embarrass mere mortals like me with a more than conservative view of your intellect; I only wish I'd 'discovered' this intellect before! would have saved me a lot of trouble!

anyhow, I have a POV about it but am still waiting for the learned here to respond; especially Tahir sahib since he mentioned his name last

be back later

Re: # 18

cheema sahib,

.... as an english medium guy with limiited intellect i could never understand what iqbal was talking about - i think the guy was full of himself ........ since our 'national poet' wrote in persian and high flautin urdu, i have to accept the experts' opinion that his poetry and philosophy is top shelf .... i don't know anyone who knows what the fcuk he was talking about .... sorry

..... maybe somone can explain in plain english (or urdu) why we worship him .....