Pakistan's Nuclear Test - Ten Years Later
Pervez Hoodbhoy May 28, 2008
#509 Posted by fmshah on December 24, 2008 5:10:50 am
Here's a tale of two Pakistani self-haters and defeatists who enjoy every moment of hating themselves and their country: Dr. Pervaiz Hoodbhoy and Asma Jahangir.
Whenever there is a writing project in any newspaper anywhere in the world where they want to bash Pakistan using a Pakistani name, they call one man in Islamabad: Dr. Hoodbhoy. He spews more venom against Pakistan than Hamid Karzai and Bal Thackery - an Indian Hindu terrorist - combined.
Asma Jahangir, another defeatist who went to India to shake the hands of Narendar Modi, the killer of 2500 Indian Muslims, has just volunteered to Hindustan Times to confirm that Mumbai terror was a Pakistani conspiracy [see below].
Here's a letter sent by a Pakistani young man to Dr. Pervaiz Hoodbhoy, a Pakistani self-hater, and received no reply. And then watch Asma Jahangir's video.
Recommendation: We need to start a witch-hunt in Pakistan to cleanse our academia and public life of such self-haters and defeatists who poison the minds of young Pakistanis about their homeland. Such academics and human rights activists should not be allowed to hide behind the freedom of expression.
TO: Dr. Pervaiz A. Hoodbhoy
Professor and Chairman
Physic Department
Quaid-e-Azam University,
Islamabad.
E-mail: hoodb...@lns.mit.edu
NATION WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU
Dear Dr Pervaiz Hoodbhoy Sahib,
I have been reading your articles and research reports and watching your interviews on different TV channels on different issues. I have tried to go through your articles again and again to satisfy myself that whatsoever you are speaking in the name of freedom of speech is just an ordinary criticism and could be a difference of opinion.
But I regret to say that I am unable to do so. In dozens of your articles and interviews you have never ever said a single positive thing about Pakistan and have always tried to portray a false picture of Pakistan, according to which Pakistan is a failed state. Whether it's the issue of extremism, or Pakistan's nuclear assets, or Pak-India relations, or if there is an issue of western and Indian allegations, you have always come up with your nasty ideas to prove to the world community that whatever the enemies of Pakistan are saying, you are more than happy to say it from them, using a Pakistani identity, which is an act for which you feel no shame.
I am not sure if Pakistanis have seen your massive one-man campaign against Pakistan where you have alleged that we are not capable of retaining our nuclear assets. Or, now, after the Mumbai attacks, when even the cheapest of Pakistani politicians have shown some kind of patriotism and unity for the sake of Pakistan, at this crucial time again you are trying to prove what the enemies of Pakistan are trying to do. I fail to understand what motivates you except gaining popularity in West or even in India.
India is a so-called democracy where low caste Hindus, Christians and Muslims are burned alive [a ritual unique to India, doesn't happen anywhere else], where Hindu extremists are in the government, where groups like Bajrang Dal are trained in Indian Army schools. But India seems like Switzerland after reading one of your articles on India, especially the one you wrote recently after a visit to India. India's terrorist and rogue intelligence agency, RAW, which is funding and supporting separatist movements in our tribal belt and in Balochistan, continues to be an untouchable issue for you. What really is important for you is to put all your efforts toward portraying a negative Pakistan.
I give you an example from the history which you will find self explanatory in reference to our current scenario.
I am not sure if our enemies will impose a war on Pakistan or not but at this crucial stage all your efforts to distort Pakistan's image is not going to remain unnoticed and the nation will never forgive you for what you have done.
Wassalam.
Waqas Ahmed
Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Whenever there is a writing project in any newspaper anywhere in the world where they want to bash Pakistan using a Pakistani name, they call one man in Islamabad: Dr. Hoodbhoy. He spews more venom against Pakistan than Hamid Karzai and Bal Thackery - an Indian Hindu terrorist - combined.
Asma Jahangir, another defeatist who went to India to shake the hands of Narendar Modi, the killer of 2500 Indian Muslims, has just volunteered to Hindustan Times to confirm that Mumbai terror was a Pakistani conspiracy [see below].
Here's a letter sent by a Pakistani young man to Dr. Pervaiz Hoodbhoy, a Pakistani self-hater, and received no reply. And then watch Asma Jahangir's video.
Recommendation: We need to start a witch-hunt in Pakistan to cleanse our academia and public life of such self-haters and defeatists who poison the minds of young Pakistanis about their homeland. Such academics and human rights activists should not be allowed to hide behind the freedom of expression.
TO: Dr. Pervaiz A. Hoodbhoy
Professor and Chairman
Physic Department
Quaid-e-Azam University,
Islamabad.
E-mail: hoodb...@lns.mit.edu
NATION WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU
Dear Dr Pervaiz Hoodbhoy Sahib,
I have been reading your articles and research reports and watching your interviews on different TV channels on different issues. I have tried to go through your articles again and again to satisfy myself that whatsoever you are speaking in the name of freedom of speech is just an ordinary criticism and could be a difference of opinion.
But I regret to say that I am unable to do so. In dozens of your articles and interviews you have never ever said a single positive thing about Pakistan and have always tried to portray a false picture of Pakistan, according to which Pakistan is a failed state. Whether it's the issue of extremism, or Pakistan's nuclear assets, or Pak-India relations, or if there is an issue of western and Indian allegations, you have always come up with your nasty ideas to prove to the world community that whatever the enemies of Pakistan are saying, you are more than happy to say it from them, using a Pakistani identity, which is an act for which you feel no shame.
I am not sure if Pakistanis have seen your massive one-man campaign against Pakistan where you have alleged that we are not capable of retaining our nuclear assets. Or, now, after the Mumbai attacks, when even the cheapest of Pakistani politicians have shown some kind of patriotism and unity for the sake of Pakistan, at this crucial time again you are trying to prove what the enemies of Pakistan are trying to do. I fail to understand what motivates you except gaining popularity in West or even in India.
India is a so-called democracy where low caste Hindus, Christians and Muslims are burned alive [a ritual unique to India, doesn't happen anywhere else], where Hindu extremists are in the government, where groups like Bajrang Dal are trained in Indian Army schools. But India seems like Switzerland after reading one of your articles on India, especially the one you wrote recently after a visit to India. India's terrorist and rogue intelligence agency, RAW, which is funding and supporting separatist movements in our tribal belt and in Balochistan, continues to be an untouchable issue for you. What really is important for you is to put all your efforts toward portraying a negative Pakistan.
I give you an example from the history which you will find self explanatory in reference to our current scenario.
I am not sure if our enemies will impose a war on Pakistan or not but at this crucial stage all your efforts to distort Pakistan's image is not going to remain unnoticed and the nation will never forgive you for what you have done.
Wassalam.
Waqas Ahmed
Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
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#507 Posted by masadi on June 7, 2008 11:22:57 am
I had written a while back that the Iran war (near term or long term) was what would determine the outcome of the US elections, if a near term is sought then McCain is the choice of the US elite, if long term then some democratic candidate, of which I had said Hillary Clinton will be on top. Now it appears they have manipulated Obama on the democratic side for the prime purpose of giving McCain a victory in the elections, which tells me the Iran campaign to be might be in the short term i.e. within 4 years.
#506 Posted by masadi on June 7, 2008 11:18:56 am
according to you "7th century "colonization..
His actual words were "and engage in debate with Massaddi Mian, a colonialist from 7th century and Mills par course."
The idiot that he is, he doesn't realize where his mouth ends and his ___ begins....
His actual words were "and engage in debate with Massaddi Mian, a colonialist from 7th century and Mills par course."
The idiot that he is, he doesn't realize where his mouth ends and his ___ begins....
#505 Posted by masadi on June 7, 2008 11:16:08 am
The miserable chowk staff had banned me for 48 hours after saying they will free me after 24, anyway, my two day old replies to some posts:
---
Kamath quoting the PM in #499 "This transformation of institutional relationship ..."
Shortly after the elections and long before this PM was PM, I informed the chowk readers that the US was trying to incorporate the political as parteners with the military in the institutional power equation of this country, where the political as subordinate to the military but not as it was before will operate without martial laws, doing what military dictators of old have done. What the PM has said is the same in more neutral/diplomatic words.
HP writes "On principle, I agree with you. But Pakistan was formed on the principle of simple Majority and we can’t change that after Pakistan’s independence"
My point was not about the farce of Pakistan's indepndence where taking advantage (manipulations) the ML was able to garner a simple majority which was a "one point in time affair" and not something which can be revised (unless incorporated in the 1973 constitution which I doubt, inform me if I'm wrong though) time and again. In that context I had stated that any nation-state that would allow parts to seperate from it through popular franchise after its formation would not last as one.
Then he writes "Baluchistan influenced by other powerful states? That should be decided by the Baloch..."
Actually you're sending them down the same path to what the Pakistan Army has led us to. Any seperation of Baluchistan at the present would play into the hands of the US that is seeking such separation because of its location as well as the potential oil resources, gold and copper in that region. An "independant" baluchistan would be another Kuwait of sorts to harm the general region with, with an abnormally developed military, possible foreign occupation, and the same fate the MAJ has predetermined for Pakistan, impoverishment of the masses in a nation dependant on other powers for its defense. Now, once a nation state gets formed, be it with a farce (religious separation similar to ethnic separation or whatever), that means that each citizen has equal rights to the entire nation state where those rights do not infringe upon anyone else's rights, the majority in Pakistan do not suffer because of ethnicity they suffer because of dictatorial policies, and democracy moreso than dictatorship with a different name, given the situation is the best way to proceed. I seek further expansion of the cause of the "Third World" regardless of ethnicity or religion because our people have similar problems and they suffer due to the same system, a system much bigger than its peons the Pakistan Army, further division just plays into the hands of the colonizers of our people. Baluchistan should remain an integral part of Pakistan and the larger Third World where we eliminate our borders and separate ourselves from the enslaving system of the West, till that time, the Baluchis instead of asking for separation which will not change their situation should join up with the rest of the assorted forces seeking justice and democracy.
Ahmedmadni & Majumdar Thank you
Okhla, ahmedmadani said it quite accurately. You are just too goddamned jealous of me to write a proper post, and do not try to devalue the various jobs that those brave folk in Pakistan do to make ends meet, and don't worry about my kharcha, I am doing very well without your concern thank you...
Anil, get some English lessons, and then try reading your posts where you called me a colonialist because I support accord to you "7th century "colonization" even though I do not, then when I explain that those conquests of old are not described as "colonization" by anyone, historian, economics or whatever because they were qualitatively different to the European colonization phenomenon you come up with your Hindlish rambling post contradicting yourself...
---
Kamath quoting the PM in #499 "This transformation of institutional relationship ..."
Shortly after the elections and long before this PM was PM, I informed the chowk readers that the US was trying to incorporate the political as parteners with the military in the institutional power equation of this country, where the political as subordinate to the military but not as it was before will operate without martial laws, doing what military dictators of old have done. What the PM has said is the same in more neutral/diplomatic words.
HP writes "On principle, I agree with you. But Pakistan was formed on the principle of simple Majority and we can’t change that after Pakistan’s independence"
My point was not about the farce of Pakistan's indepndence where taking advantage (manipulations) the ML was able to garner a simple majority which was a "one point in time affair" and not something which can be revised (unless incorporated in the 1973 constitution which I doubt, inform me if I'm wrong though) time and again. In that context I had stated that any nation-state that would allow parts to seperate from it through popular franchise after its formation would not last as one.
Then he writes "Baluchistan influenced by other powerful states? That should be decided by the Baloch..."
Actually you're sending them down the same path to what the Pakistan Army has led us to. Any seperation of Baluchistan at the present would play into the hands of the US that is seeking such separation because of its location as well as the potential oil resources, gold and copper in that region. An "independant" baluchistan would be another Kuwait of sorts to harm the general region with, with an abnormally developed military, possible foreign occupation, and the same fate the MAJ has predetermined for Pakistan, impoverishment of the masses in a nation dependant on other powers for its defense. Now, once a nation state gets formed, be it with a farce (religious separation similar to ethnic separation or whatever), that means that each citizen has equal rights to the entire nation state where those rights do not infringe upon anyone else's rights, the majority in Pakistan do not suffer because of ethnicity they suffer because of dictatorial policies, and democracy moreso than dictatorship with a different name, given the situation is the best way to proceed. I seek further expansion of the cause of the "Third World" regardless of ethnicity or religion because our people have similar problems and they suffer due to the same system, a system much bigger than its peons the Pakistan Army, further division just plays into the hands of the colonizers of our people. Baluchistan should remain an integral part of Pakistan and the larger Third World where we eliminate our borders and separate ourselves from the enslaving system of the West, till that time, the Baluchis instead of asking for separation which will not change their situation should join up with the rest of the assorted forces seeking justice and democracy.
Ahmedmadni & Majumdar Thank you
Okhla, ahmedmadani said it quite accurately. You are just too goddamned jealous of me to write a proper post, and do not try to devalue the various jobs that those brave folk in Pakistan do to make ends meet, and don't worry about my kharcha, I am doing very well without your concern thank you...
Anil, get some English lessons, and then try reading your posts where you called me a colonialist because I support accord to you "7th century "colonization" even though I do not, then when I explain that those conquests of old are not described as "colonization" by anyone, historian, economics or whatever because they were qualitatively different to the European colonization phenomenon you come up with your Hindlish rambling post contradicting yourself...
#504 Posted by tahir on June 7, 2008 10:22:04 am
Let us all offer congregational prayers now that this THING has been read 20,000 times, messed up with over 500 times, and failed to make the writer respond!
Until next time, ta-ta....
Until next time, ta-ta....
#503 Posted by akcheema on June 7, 2008 3:48:16 am
Re: # 488 posted by Tahir
Are you absolutely sure sir? recently a friend of mine came across such interest and he was being stalked by a person of the inclinations mentioned below!
I believe you...millions perhaps wouldn't! but as long as YOU are convinced of the verasity of your convictions, or otherwise, that is what matters....I think?!
glad we cleared that up
Are you absolutely sure sir? recently a friend of mine came across such interest and he was being stalked by a person of the inclinations mentioned below!
I believe you...millions perhaps wouldn't! but as long as YOU are convinced of the verasity of your convictions, or otherwise, that is what matters....I think?!
glad we cleared that up
#502 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 6, 2008 9:53:55 pm
Re: # 499 Hope this imperial despotic bans be undone and let Masadi be allowed to express.
#501 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 6, 2008 9:53:48 pm
Re: # 499 Hope this imperial despotic bans be undone and let Masadi be allowed to express.
#500 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 6, 2008 9:53:48 pm
Re: # 499 Hope this imperial despotic bans be undone and let Masadi be allowed to express.
#499 Posted by Kamath on June 6, 2008 8:04:13 am
Re: # 493 Ahmedmadani and #491 Majumdar and #486 aDost Mittar
Now hear this!
"..The fast diminishing clout of President Pervez Musharraf has redefined equations between the army and the political class, holding out hopes of a revision of innumerable policies Pakistan had been pursuing over the last decade. This transformation of institutional relationship was most evident in the army's decision to encourage the coalition government led by the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) to negotiate twin peace deals with the Islamic militants who had been on the rampage in a vast swathe of the country..."
This is verbatim from Prime minister of Pakistan.
Kamath
Now hear this!
"..The fast diminishing clout of President Pervez Musharraf has redefined equations between the army and the political class, holding out hopes of a revision of innumerable policies Pakistan had been pursuing over the last decade. This transformation of institutional relationship was most evident in the army's decision to encourage the coalition government led by the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) to negotiate twin peace deals with the Islamic militants who had been on the rampage in a vast swathe of the country..."
This is verbatim from Prime minister of Pakistan.
Kamath
#498 Posted by Kamath on June 6, 2008 8:04:05 am
Re: # 493 Ahmedmadani and #491 Majumdar and #486 aDost Mittar
Now hear this!
"..The fast diminishing clout of President Pervez Musharraf has redefined equations between the army and the political class, holding out hopes of a revision of innumerable policies Pakistan had been pursuing over the last decade. This transformation of institutional relationship was most evident in the army's decision to encourage the coalition government led by the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) to negotiate twin peace deals with the Islamic militants who had been on the rampage in a vast swathe of the country..."
This is verbatim from Prime minister of Pakistan.
Kamath
Now hear this!
"..The fast diminishing clout of President Pervez Musharraf has redefined equations between the army and the political class, holding out hopes of a revision of innumerable policies Pakistan had been pursuing over the last decade. This transformation of institutional relationship was most evident in the army's decision to encourage the coalition government led by the Pakistan People's Party (PPP) to negotiate twin peace deals with the Islamic militants who had been on the rampage in a vast swathe of the country..."
This is verbatim from Prime minister of Pakistan.
Kamath
#497 Posted by akcheema on June 6, 2008 12:33:18 am
Re: # 496
sorry will try on UP...didn't work here
sorry will try on UP...didn't work here
#496 Posted by akcheema on June 6, 2008 12:32:34 am
Re: # 494; majumdar
I read with interest your take on Kipling's Jungle book and the Bengali characters in it.
Could this be what you are talking about?
Re: # 494; majumdar
I read with interest your take on Kipling's Jungle book and the Bengali characters in it.
Could this be what you are talking about?
I read with interest your take on Kipling's Jungle book and the Bengali characters in it.
Could this be what you are talking about?
Re: # 494; majumdar
I read with interest your take on Kipling's Jungle book and the Bengali characters in it.
Could this be what you are talking about?
#495 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 5, 2008 11:59:26 pm
Okha you can criticise Mr. Masadi after you read writing by him. Other wise it is just your jelousy and envy controlling.
You should feel good and calm before you can read with prejudice. You need to calm. So for to listen few times to following bandish.THen talk about Masadi. The artist was in Lahore but newspapers never gave what was presented. A delightful presentation in Shudh Kalyan ( quite popular bandish)
http://www.esnips.com/doc/52e39cd2-a416-4a0b-b4f0-d018998a671a/Ashwini -Bhide-Deshpande-Raag-Shuddha-Kalyan.mp3
too much heat is getting here, cool treatment for summer.
Good afternoon and good luck.
You should feel good and calm before you can read with prejudice. You need to calm. So for to listen few times to following bandish.THen talk about Masadi. The artist was in Lahore but newspapers never gave what was presented. A delightful presentation in Shudh Kalyan ( quite popular bandish)
http://www.esnips.com/doc/52e39cd2-a416-4a0b-b4f0-d018998a671a/Ashwini -Bhide-Deshpande-Raag-Shuddha-Kalyan.mp3
too much heat is getting here, cool treatment for summer.
Good afternoon and good luck.
#494 Posted by majumdar on June 5, 2008 11:38:04 pm
Ahmed madani sahib,
Masadi sahib is one of the best writers on chowk, minus the abuse and insults. He has a different POV (I dont agree with all of his POVs) but he is rational and passionate about his convictions. The treatment that chowk has meted out to him is shameful to say the least. Any two bit idiot can write an article post on FP but Masadi sahib has been consistently throttled.
Re: Bong Babus - You must read Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling where he has neatly characterised Bong Babus. The bandar log or monkeys in JB brainlessly mimic humans without understanding a thing, of course. The bandar log are Bongs and the human being is the Brit in RK's allegorical depiction of India.
Regards
Masadi sahib is one of the best writers on chowk, minus the abuse and insults. He has a different POV (I dont agree with all of his POVs) but he is rational and passionate about his convictions. The treatment that chowk has meted out to him is shameful to say the least. Any two bit idiot can write an article post on FP but Masadi sahib has been consistently throttled.
Re: Bong Babus - You must read Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling where he has neatly characterised Bong Babus. The bandar log or monkeys in JB brainlessly mimic humans without understanding a thing, of course. The bandar log are Bongs and the human being is the Brit in RK's allegorical depiction of India.
Regards
#493 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 5, 2008 11:36:17 pm
Re: # 490 Okha do not show infantile disorder. You may not like but masdadi but masadi is unique.
masadi is not easy to understand like pure mathematics for retarts that does not mean real analysis is wrong.
Honestly 80% contributors have no mental capacity to sit at his feet. Many are like blind people who think sun is not there , its not fault of sun but blinds inability to see.
Good day.
masadi is not easy to understand like pure mathematics for retarts that does not mean real analysis is wrong.
Honestly 80% contributors have no mental capacity to sit at his feet. Many are like blind people who think sun is not there , its not fault of sun but blinds inability to see.
Good day.
#492 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 5, 2008 11:26:10 pm
Re: # 491 Thanks mr. Mujumdar for informing. I missed masadis logical postings. I am requesting mystic to tell me what is name of Pareshbabu's daughter ( It had beautiful meaning and sounding).
As a bengli is babu is degrading or elevating ? In that novel Pareshbabu is very thoughtful man and man of great control and is christian. Tagore always rfered to him has pareshbabu which I felt with reverence. Now a days "Babu" log means reasonably ( not highly educated) educated talkative person devoid of action is meant ?
I was able to find to state mr. Masadi is giving message worth thinking about. First he was neglected, then rediculed then condemned but he did not deter so they suppressed him from here.It is pathetic many writers are just producing western articles with some deshi masala.
If Masadi was slave and repeated and official line of West left and fake liberal he would have been praised. I suggest just like you let him be unbanned.
Presently not feeling well. So trying to calm and cheer myself , not brain working properly.So listening to music .
Late Malikarjun Mansur in maru Bihar in live performance is worth listening. Mansur definitely galaxy of great singer but is more difficult to appreciate . Its like higher class wine they say have little strange taste but practice makes palet undwerstand greatness, same with Mansur, comparatively less appreciated.Always wonder what is there in water and air to give so many great singers from so small geographical area ( Rajguru, Kumar Gandharva, Mansur,Joshi,Gangubai Hangal). Recently heard some music by bengali young singer Koshaki (Chakrabarti/ or Mhkharjee?)delightful presentation in Shudh Kalyan.
Now this Mansur , live recording.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/6c2e9ed1-e69d-419a-b933-00a0f672a0b5/Raag- Maru-Bihag3.mp3
Good day and good luck, hope some godly helps and props up stock market.
As a bengli is babu is degrading or elevating ? In that novel Pareshbabu is very thoughtful man and man of great control and is christian. Tagore always rfered to him has pareshbabu which I felt with reverence. Now a days "Babu" log means reasonably ( not highly educated) educated talkative person devoid of action is meant ?
I was able to find to state mr. Masadi is giving message worth thinking about. First he was neglected, then rediculed then condemned but he did not deter so they suppressed him from here.It is pathetic many writers are just producing western articles with some deshi masala.
If Masadi was slave and repeated and official line of West left and fake liberal he would have been praised. I suggest just like you let him be unbanned.
Presently not feeling well. So trying to calm and cheer myself , not brain working properly.So listening to music .
Late Malikarjun Mansur in maru Bihar in live performance is worth listening. Mansur definitely galaxy of great singer but is more difficult to appreciate . Its like higher class wine they say have little strange taste but practice makes palet undwerstand greatness, same with Mansur, comparatively less appreciated.Always wonder what is there in water and air to give so many great singers from so small geographical area ( Rajguru, Kumar Gandharva, Mansur,Joshi,Gangubai Hangal). Recently heard some music by bengali young singer Koshaki (Chakrabarti/ or Mhkharjee?)delightful presentation in Shudh Kalyan.
Now this Mansur , live recording.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/6c2e9ed1-e69d-419a-b933-00a0f672a0b5/Raag- Maru-Bihag3.mp3
Good day and good luck, hope some godly helps and props up stock market.
#491 Posted by majumdar on June 5, 2008 10:32:28 pm
This is to inform you with much regret that Masadi sahib has been banned again by chowk. However he will return shortly and respond to Toofan Payee and Zuber mian on the Atom Bomb and Saima Shah posts.
Regards
Regards
#490 Posted by okhla99 on June 5, 2008 9:42:58 am
#287 Masadi
Higly respected and widely loved MASADI Sahib,
Too bad that you still have not been able to land a job as yet. Try registering on some online sites but I doubt that would help. You could also ask around for some morning car-cleaning/washing assignments. That might be more fruitful. Speaking of fruit, banana selling (retail) in good colonies can also be started with modest investment (or some credit).
Chowk- Wowk mein kuchh nahin rakhaa hai, aap jaison ke liye...
What I could not understand was your declared intent to join a lawyer. I think without a law degree that would be extremely difficult. Also, paagal wakeel kam hee hote hain..
Or maybe, you would want to be a clerk to a lawyer, munshi or something. Good. Kharchaa to chalegaa..
#276 & others - Arjun
Thanks bloke, I am fine. But I can see that you continue to spew venom against Pakistan as always.
Higly respected and widely loved MASADI Sahib,
Too bad that you still have not been able to land a job as yet. Try registering on some online sites but I doubt that would help. You could also ask around for some morning car-cleaning/washing assignments. That might be more fruitful. Speaking of fruit, banana selling (retail) in good colonies can also be started with modest investment (or some credit).
Chowk- Wowk mein kuchh nahin rakhaa hai, aap jaison ke liye...
What I could not understand was your declared intent to join a lawyer. I think without a law degree that would be extremely difficult. Also, paagal wakeel kam hee hote hain..
Or maybe, you would want to be a clerk to a lawyer, munshi or something. Good. Kharchaa to chalegaa..
#276 & others - Arjun
Thanks bloke, I am fine. But I can see that you continue to spew venom against Pakistan as always.
#488 Posted by tahir on June 5, 2008 12:54:34 am
Re: # 487 akcheema
"I am really not that kinda guy!....if you know what I mean!"
A doctor a day may keep the apples away for some...
"someone might get the idea you have a thing for me....."
Damn all homosexuals. Did you perform surgery on yourself to implant this silly idea?
Interacters who never knew me, now KNOW me!
Goodnight in down-underwear....
"I am really not that kinda guy!....if you know what I mean!"
A doctor a day may keep the apples away for some...
"someone might get the idea you have a thing for me....."
Damn all homosexuals. Did you perform surgery on yourself to implant this silly idea?
Interacters who never knew me, now KNOW me!
Goodnight in down-underwear....
#487 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 10:45:18 pm
Re: # 462; Tahir mian,
Your obsession with everything I write here is a little unhealthy, if I may say so sir.....someone might get the idea you have a thing for me.....
....much as I respect your right to the 'alternative' life choices you might have made....I am really not that kinda guy!....if you know what I mean
Khuda Hafiz
Your obsession with everything I write here is a little unhealthy, if I may say so sir.....someone might get the idea you have a thing for me.....
....much as I respect your right to the 'alternative' life choices you might have made....I am really not that kinda guy!....if you know what I mean
Khuda Hafiz
#486 Posted by dost_mittar on June 4, 2008 12:49:42 pm
anil#473:
I want to make it clear that I do not think that colonialism was good for India. My comments related strictly to their point of departure.
I want to make it clear that I do not think that colonialism was good for India. My comments related strictly to their point of departure.
#485 Posted by dost_mittar on June 4, 2008 12:10:50 pm
HP:
"This is a fairly common practice in Sindh and Punjab among the middle class families. Some Mohajir also follow that. This has nothing to do with religion."
I did not mean it had any religious origin; regret any such implication.
"This is a fairly common practice in Sindh and Punjab among the middle class families. Some Mohajir also follow that. This has nothing to do with religion."
I did not mean it had any religious origin; regret any such implication.
#484 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 11:56:34 am
"I'm the ONLY one on Chowk who has actually lived for years in EACH of the four provinces of Pakistan, including some of its remote areas (not East Pakistan though my father was posted there as well) and not just visited like you Sain."
That is really good! But you still don't know much abt the country.
This is just pathetic.
That is really good! But you still don't know much abt the country.
This is just pathetic.
#483 Posted by zeemax on June 4, 2008 11:42:36 am
#482 Posted by HP
I'm the ONLY one on Chowk who has actually lived for years in EACH of the four provinces of Pakistan, including some of its remote areas (not East Pakistan though my father was posted there as well) and not just visited like you Sain.
And where did adam khan show me anything? He is just a Verkotey Angraiz who knows nothing outside Charsadda/Mardan.
I'm the ONLY one on Chowk who has actually lived for years in EACH of the four provinces of Pakistan, including some of its remote areas (not East Pakistan though my father was posted there as well) and not just visited like you Sain.
And where did adam khan show me anything? He is just a Verkotey Angraiz who knows nothing outside Charsadda/Mardan.
#482 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 11:31:59 am
#479 Posted by zeemax
Yeah right! you lived in Quetta when you were a kid and you know abt Baluchistan. What a joke…That was fifty years ago. Try and update your info and go in the Baloch areas.
You claimed you lived in Sarhad too and still Adam Khan showed that you know zilch abt Sarhad or the Pathans.
#478 Posted by hamidm2
“you except for the fact that there are very few baluchis in Baluchistan�
Find some good map of Balochistan and also check up the population numbers. Baloch are a majority in Balochistan. Pathans are a majority in 9 districts and the rest of the districts are overwhelmingly Baloch!
You go to Quetta and see for yourself how many Baloch live there now.
“by the way, did you know that detroit city has 'indian' casinos downtown ! ...... let's give the baluchis a couple of casinos in quetta and kalat and be done with it ..........�
Yeah! that would probably work:)
I am going to Toronto in the first week of August, will try and stop by if I have a day or even a few hours to spare. Wont mind a couple of hours in a casino.
Yeah right! you lived in Quetta when you were a kid and you know abt Baluchistan. What a joke…That was fifty years ago. Try and update your info and go in the Baloch areas.
You claimed you lived in Sarhad too and still Adam Khan showed that you know zilch abt Sarhad or the Pathans.
#478 Posted by hamidm2
“you except for the fact that there are very few baluchis in Baluchistan�
Find some good map of Balochistan and also check up the population numbers. Baloch are a majority in Balochistan. Pathans are a majority in 9 districts and the rest of the districts are overwhelmingly Baloch!
You go to Quetta and see for yourself how many Baloch live there now.
“by the way, did you know that detroit city has 'indian' casinos downtown ! ...... let's give the baluchis a couple of casinos in quetta and kalat and be done with it ..........�
Yeah! that would probably work:)
I am going to Toronto in the first week of August, will try and stop by if I have a day or even a few hours to spare. Wont mind a couple of hours in a casino.
#481 Posted by anil on June 4, 2008 11:24:30 am
Re: # 475
Massaddi Mian:
I know you read after you have written, the problem is that even then you miss by million miles.
7th century Arabs did not need raw materials, Massaddi Mian. Read definitions of Colonialism by Marx. These arabs needed to conquer land richer than theirs, and that is what they did. Your enslaved mind is a modern day proof, about the powerful product (ideology) and system (strategy) they had.
Please learn and define the system and see your ignorance. Entrepreneuriship and military, can you tell me a more oxymoronic statement than this?
Also, things you do not know you cannot revolutionalize, you may engage in mental masturbation as long as you wish.
Massaddi Mian:
I know you read after you have written, the problem is that even then you miss by million miles.
7th century Arabs did not need raw materials, Massaddi Mian. Read definitions of Colonialism by Marx. These arabs needed to conquer land richer than theirs, and that is what they did. Your enslaved mind is a modern day proof, about the powerful product (ideology) and system (strategy) they had.
Please learn and define the system and see your ignorance. Entrepreneuriship and military, can you tell me a more oxymoronic statement than this?
Also, things you do not know you cannot revolutionalize, you may engage in mental masturbation as long as you wish.
#480 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 11:20:08 am
#471 Posted by masadi
“The "rule of law" operates remaining within the constitution of a nation state which does not allow for it to be split apart by franchise, otherwise no nation state would survive and those with resources to influence the 51%,�
On principle, I agree with you. But Pakistan was formed on the principle of simple Majority and we can’t change that after Pakistan’s independence. A better system would give all provinces in Pakistan a constitutional right to secede based on 2/3 majority. But you can’t put that in constitution without the consent from all provincial units in Pakistan. Until they change the constitution, the original principle of simple majority has to be followed!
Baluchistan influenced by other powerful states? That should be decided by the Baloch. Similar to what Pakistanis decided after the independence. I have more confidence in the Baloch leadership to decide what is good for them.
Whatever they decide would be better than what the Pak army has decided for them.
“The "rule of law" operates remaining within the constitution of a nation state which does not allow for it to be split apart by franchise, otherwise no nation state would survive and those with resources to influence the 51%,�
On principle, I agree with you. But Pakistan was formed on the principle of simple Majority and we can’t change that after Pakistan’s independence. A better system would give all provinces in Pakistan a constitutional right to secede based on 2/3 majority. But you can’t put that in constitution without the consent from all provincial units in Pakistan. Until they change the constitution, the original principle of simple majority has to be followed!
Baluchistan influenced by other powerful states? That should be decided by the Baloch. Similar to what Pakistanis decided after the independence. I have more confidence in the Baloch leadership to decide what is good for them.
Whatever they decide would be better than what the Pak army has decided for them.
#479 Posted by zeemax on June 4, 2008 11:08:27 am
#468 Posted by HP,
HP Mian, my father was posted to Quetta for five years when I was in school.
Now stop your ibne-batuta stuff. Thanks.
HP Mian, my father was posted to Quetta for five years when I was in school.
Now stop your ibne-batuta stuff. Thanks.
#478 Posted by hamidm2 on June 4, 2008 11:04:14 am
Re: # 468
hp,
i would agree with you except for the fact that there are very few baluchis in baluchistan - and as far as i can tell there are none in quetta which is the only half way civilized city in that province ...... it would be akin to the chippewa demanding independence for michigan when i have never seen an indian in my twenty years here ......
..... by the way, did you know that detroit city has 'indian' casinos downtown ! ...... let's give the baluchis a couple of casinos in quetta and kalat and be done with it .......... issue closed ! .... now, can we move on, please ......
......
hp,
i would agree with you except for the fact that there are very few baluchis in baluchistan - and as far as i can tell there are none in quetta which is the only half way civilized city in that province ...... it would be akin to the chippewa demanding independence for michigan when i have never seen an indian in my twenty years here ......
..... by the way, did you know that detroit city has 'indian' casinos downtown ! ...... let's give the baluchis a couple of casinos in quetta and kalat and be done with it .......... issue closed ! .... now, can we move on, please ......
......
#477 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 10:57:40 am
#464 Posted by masadi
“Some people benefit "relatively"- compared to the mass, from slavery like house slaves of old, they come to love their bondage and become so engrossed in the few privilages that are given them that when someone shows them the path to freedom, which always comes through struggle, they rail against their saviors and cling to those that butcher them with a knife sharpened,�
So true! These wanna be goras are just ridiculous. It is hilarious to see them in formal dinner environments. Invariably, all of them fail to figure out which fork to use first!
#453 Posted by dost_mittar
“Was it your Nana's house by any chance? I am asking this because there was a tradition among Punjabi hindu/sikhs that mothers would go to their parents' home for the delivery of their child, especially the first-born, and wonder if the tradition extended to Muslims as well?�
This is a fairly common practice in Sindh and Punjab among the middle class families. Some Mohajir also follow that. This has nothing to do with religion.
“Some people benefit "relatively"- compared to the mass, from slavery like house slaves of old, they come to love their bondage and become so engrossed in the few privilages that are given them that when someone shows them the path to freedom, which always comes through struggle, they rail against their saviors and cling to those that butcher them with a knife sharpened,�
So true! These wanna be goras are just ridiculous. It is hilarious to see them in formal dinner environments. Invariably, all of them fail to figure out which fork to use first!
#453 Posted by dost_mittar
“Was it your Nana's house by any chance? I am asking this because there was a tradition among Punjabi hindu/sikhs that mothers would go to their parents' home for the delivery of their child, especially the first-born, and wonder if the tradition extended to Muslims as well?�
This is a fairly common practice in Sindh and Punjab among the middle class families. Some Mohajir also follow that. This has nothing to do with religion.
#476 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:56:35 am
Majumdar, if chowk staff ban me I'll email you with my posts, thank you for this great service you are providing...
#475 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:55:46 am
g'night
Anil, you are the one who "goes to the shore and dies", people like myself when given the opportunity cause revolutions. People like you are forgotten and due to weak language skills are never part of the big discourse, people like myself set the trend in that area. Now go F yourself
Anil, you are the one who "goes to the shore and dies", people like myself when given the opportunity cause revolutions. People like you are forgotten and due to weak language skills are never part of the big discourse, people like myself set the trend in that area. Now go F yourself
#474 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:53:39 am
Anil writes "and engage in debate with Massaddi Mian, a colonialist from 7th century and Mills par course...."
Look you miserable a-hole from HBS with an email to match, who can scarse write a straight sentence in English, leave me the F alone when you don't have a clue about me, colonization cannot and does not refer to the conquests that occurred in the 7th century because of qualitative differences between them and the European colonization, and I certainly do not support either..
Then the idiot writes "America is a system, not a nation-state. Silicon Valley is as different from Mississippi delta as it is from Bangalore."
Fool America is a nation state that is based on a barbaric system of exploitation, deception and theft. There is great standardization and homogeniety that is bureaucratically enforced so that cities are near replicas of each other, there is great economic concentration and your favourite "entrepreneurs", none are independant but are bought out by the big corporations, concentrated in the military sector, even the thought process channeled through a concentrated corporate media ensures a standardized cheerful robot. There is no difference or variety anywhere except in the minds of HBS dimwits like yourself
Look you miserable a-hole from HBS with an email to match, who can scarse write a straight sentence in English, leave me the F alone when you don't have a clue about me, colonization cannot and does not refer to the conquests that occurred in the 7th century because of qualitative differences between them and the European colonization, and I certainly do not support either..
Then the idiot writes "America is a system, not a nation-state. Silicon Valley is as different from Mississippi delta as it is from Bangalore."
Fool America is a nation state that is based on a barbaric system of exploitation, deception and theft. There is great standardization and homogeniety that is bureaucratically enforced so that cities are near replicas of each other, there is great economic concentration and your favourite "entrepreneurs", none are independant but are bought out by the big corporations, concentrated in the military sector, even the thought process channeled through a concentrated corporate media ensures a standardized cheerful robot. There is no difference or variety anywhere except in the minds of HBS dimwits like yourself
#473 Posted by anil on June 4, 2008 10:46:23 am
Hamidm sahib:
I am surprised that you, Cheema and Dost sahibs worship colonialism, and engage in debate with Massaddi Mian, a colonialist from 7th century and Mills par course. He represents at best a dinaosour's thinking.
Colonialism did not happen, it was deliberate, there was a need to get raw materials for European economies. America had resources but not people, so slavery started, Arabs and Europeans joined for African slaves for the Americas. Chinese coolies were brought to work in the U.S. Indians were used as plantation workers, babus, chaiwalas to cannon fodder for the colonizing armies and traders.
I am surprised Dost sahib gives example of Chinese (it has been a complete indegenious transformations by Mao to Deng), and Lee Kwan Yu, again very Singaporean Chinese, who had limited choice after Malayesia wanted to kick Chinese out.
Had Brits lasted longer in India, there would have been more of babus, soldiers and traders. The discrimination would have been rampant glass ceilings lower. Colonialist had no intention to develop market (consumers) or production centers in these parts of the world.
What is driving this Post-American era is what has been created in America. America is a system, not a nation-state. Silicon Valley is as different from Mississippi delta as it is from Bangalore. This system is equally capable of allowing Harvard drop out to become the world’s richest man, and Massaddi Mian into a Summa Cum Laude.
You, Dost and I were at the beginning wave of globalization, Cheema sahib is the next wave. Massaddi Mian is the under current that goes back to the shore and dies. What links all of us and talk, is what drives the next wave of globalization from China, India, Middle, East Europe and Americas, also allows labor (Skills to develop), capital (to create) and products (to manufacture) move faster than ever. It is technology and knowledge, which has allowed a separation of physical movement of goods / services and transactions to mention the few. This is unprecedented and a causing a major shift in job creation.
Would you call it latest colonialism?
I am surprised that you, Cheema and Dost sahibs worship colonialism, and engage in debate with Massaddi Mian, a colonialist from 7th century and Mills par course. He represents at best a dinaosour's thinking.
Colonialism did not happen, it was deliberate, there was a need to get raw materials for European economies. America had resources but not people, so slavery started, Arabs and Europeans joined for African slaves for the Americas. Chinese coolies were brought to work in the U.S. Indians were used as plantation workers, babus, chaiwalas to cannon fodder for the colonizing armies and traders.
I am surprised Dost sahib gives example of Chinese (it has been a complete indegenious transformations by Mao to Deng), and Lee Kwan Yu, again very Singaporean Chinese, who had limited choice after Malayesia wanted to kick Chinese out.
Had Brits lasted longer in India, there would have been more of babus, soldiers and traders. The discrimination would have been rampant glass ceilings lower. Colonialist had no intention to develop market (consumers) or production centers in these parts of the world.
What is driving this Post-American era is what has been created in America. America is a system, not a nation-state. Silicon Valley is as different from Mississippi delta as it is from Bangalore. This system is equally capable of allowing Harvard drop out to become the world’s richest man, and Massaddi Mian into a Summa Cum Laude.
You, Dost and I were at the beginning wave of globalization, Cheema sahib is the next wave. Massaddi Mian is the under current that goes back to the shore and dies. What links all of us and talk, is what drives the next wave of globalization from China, India, Middle, East Europe and Americas, also allows labor (Skills to develop), capital (to create) and products (to manufacture) move faster than ever. It is technology and knowledge, which has allowed a separation of physical movement of goods / services and transactions to mention the few. This is unprecedented and a causing a major shift in job creation.
Would you call it latest colonialism?
#472 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:42:35 am
in #471 read "I am against the larger division of nation states just as I am against the smaller divisions.."
as
I am against the larger division (the system of nation states) just as I am against the smaller sub-divisions and I would like the elimination of all borders between nations and guaranteed rights to indigineous folk, however given the current situation of nation states what I want is not going to happen so rights ensured through a democratic process, rather than subdivision is the best way to go..
as
I am against the larger division (the system of nation states) just as I am against the smaller sub-divisions and I would like the elimination of all borders between nations and guaranteed rights to indigineous folk, however given the current situation of nation states what I want is not going to happen so rights ensured through a democratic process, rather than subdivision is the best way to go..
#471 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:37:46 am
HP writes " If 51% of Baloch want independence, there demand becomes legitimate. Pakistan got independence on the same principle and that cannot be changed for any other nationality in Pakistan. "
The "rule of law" operates remaining within the constitution of a nation state which does not allow for it to be split apart by franchise, otherwise no nation state would survive and those with resources to influence the 51%, i.e. other powers that might have interests would always be successful in "lawfully" breaking up a nation state. Pakistan, though an unfortunate fact is a fact nonetheless and remaining within the state and ensuring equal rights to all is best, the so-called independance of baluchistan would be in name only the bigger powers will soon dominate it not only to the detriment of the Baluchis but to the detriment of Pakistan as well. The 51% reveals a long history of injustice and military action, if democracy can correct that I am sure the numbers will change, ethnicity is no reason to breakup a nation state living within the current system (I am against the larger division of nation states just as I am against the smaller divisions) if rights can be ensured through a democratic process...
The "rule of law" operates remaining within the constitution of a nation state which does not allow for it to be split apart by franchise, otherwise no nation state would survive and those with resources to influence the 51%, i.e. other powers that might have interests would always be successful in "lawfully" breaking up a nation state. Pakistan, though an unfortunate fact is a fact nonetheless and remaining within the state and ensuring equal rights to all is best, the so-called independance of baluchistan would be in name only the bigger powers will soon dominate it not only to the detriment of the Baluchis but to the detriment of Pakistan as well. The 51% reveals a long history of injustice and military action, if democracy can correct that I am sure the numbers will change, ethnicity is no reason to breakup a nation state living within the current system (I am against the larger division of nation states just as I am against the smaller divisions) if rights can be ensured through a democratic process...
#470 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:29:39 am
in # 469 spineless immoral fool (refers to tahmed)
#469 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:28:30 am
Everytime I told the chowk folk that this spineless immoral fool supported the colonization of India by the Brits in his articles, he denied it and challenged me to produce his quote and now just today he makes this comment
""Was the british rule a plus for India - definitely. The brits came to a nation ruled by kings, left the nation as a democracy.."
Now pray tell me who the F is the liar and who the F is the hypocrite??
""Was the british rule a plus for India - definitely. The brits came to a nation ruled by kings, left the nation as a democracy.."
Now pray tell me who the F is the liar and who the F is the hypocrite??
#468 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 10:28:03 am
#417 Posted by zeemax
“I only butt in when you begin to make a fool of yourself with your superficial knowledge claiming to be the ibne-batuta of Pakistan.�
Yeah this is from a guy who claimed he had some knowledge about Pushtuns and was shown and made to look like an idiot by Adam Khan. You simply don’t know about Baluchistan and you are just repeating what heard from Talat Hussain on his TV show while interviewing Burhamdagh. I doubt that you have ever spoken to a Baloch in your whole life. You learn about Pakistan from wiki?
Here is problem with new mujahids for democracy (well in your case that would be Islamist)like you. You want Judges restored for the rule of law but still use the army to deny the same rights to the Baloch. Try and read learn about the people in your country before trying to discuss anything about them.
Ignorance is you middle name.
#418 Posted by hamidm2
“even though i agree with you 99.9% of the time and zeemax is certainly a demented jihadi, i have to agree with him on this one .....�
Hamid, it does not matter what you and I or Zeemax think. The only thing matter is what the Baloch think. If 51% of Baloch want independence, there demand becomes legitimate. Pakistan got independence on the same principle and that cannot be changed for any other nationality in Pakistan.
“I only butt in when you begin to make a fool of yourself with your superficial knowledge claiming to be the ibne-batuta of Pakistan.�
Yeah this is from a guy who claimed he had some knowledge about Pushtuns and was shown and made to look like an idiot by Adam Khan. You simply don’t know about Baluchistan and you are just repeating what heard from Talat Hussain on his TV show while interviewing Burhamdagh. I doubt that you have ever spoken to a Baloch in your whole life. You learn about Pakistan from wiki?
Here is problem with new mujahids for democracy (well in your case that would be Islamist)like you. You want Judges restored for the rule of law but still use the army to deny the same rights to the Baloch. Try and read learn about the people in your country before trying to discuss anything about them.
Ignorance is you middle name.
#418 Posted by hamidm2
“even though i agree with you 99.9% of the time and zeemax is certainly a demented jihadi, i have to agree with him on this one .....�
Hamid, it does not matter what you and I or Zeemax think. The only thing matter is what the Baloch think. If 51% of Baloch want independence, there demand becomes legitimate. Pakistan got independence on the same principle and that cannot be changed for any other nationality in Pakistan.
#467 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:25:50 am
This miserable a-hole (tahmed) should be hung by parliament decree as traitor to humanity and the crows should be allowed to snack on his dead carcass.......
Let us all raise our hands and pray, Amen to that!
Let us all raise our hands and pray, Amen to that!
#466 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:21:04 am
In #465 read "and is not responsible for the over one million that have been butchered and the entire population whose life has been made unbearable" as
and is now (definitely) responsible for the over one million that have been butchered and the entire population whose life has been made unbearable
and is now (definitely) responsible for the over one million that have been butchered and the entire population whose life has been made unbearable
#465 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:18:05 am
Tahmed the supporter of colonization praises his gods in this manner "Was the british rule a plus for India - definitely. The brits came to a nation ruled by kings, left the nation as a democracy"
Rather, the british came to India that was economically quite ahead for its times, left it underdeveloped after killing millions of its people through manufactured famines, destroying whatever industry would have taken root, devalued local cultures, religions and history while degrading people's heritage in their own eyes through deceit, sent hundreds of thousands to be butchered in its foreign wars or relocated for economic exploitation, and created a class of "middle class educated" that ensured that even after colonization we would remain a dependency in an underdeveloped state. Colonization ruined the world in a most barbaric and inhumane manner and this sob supports it, just as he was cheerleading for the 2003 Iraq war and is not responsible for the over one million that have been butchered and the entire population whose life has been made unbearable, just like he is asking the barbarians at our gate (US) to send troops on the ground in Pakistan to rape our mother, sisters and daughters as they break up Pakistan. This miserable a-hole should be hung as traitor by parliament decree as traitor to humanity and the crows should be allowed to snack on his dead carcass.......
Rather, the british came to India that was economically quite ahead for its times, left it underdeveloped after killing millions of its people through manufactured famines, destroying whatever industry would have taken root, devalued local cultures, religions and history while degrading people's heritage in their own eyes through deceit, sent hundreds of thousands to be butchered in its foreign wars or relocated for economic exploitation, and created a class of "middle class educated" that ensured that even after colonization we would remain a dependency in an underdeveloped state. Colonization ruined the world in a most barbaric and inhumane manner and this sob supports it, just as he was cheerleading for the 2003 Iraq war and is not responsible for the over one million that have been butchered and the entire population whose life has been made unbearable, just like he is asking the barbarians at our gate (US) to send troops on the ground in Pakistan to rape our mother, sisters and daughters as they break up Pakistan. This miserable a-hole should be hung as traitor by parliament decree as traitor to humanity and the crows should be allowed to snack on his dead carcass.......
#464 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:11:32 am
Some people benefit "relatively"- compared to the mass, from slavery like house slaves of old, they come to love their bondage and become so engrossed in the few privilages that are given them that when someone shows them the path to freedom, which always comes through struggle, they rail against their saviors and cling to those that butcher them with a knife sharpened, that will kill them even though it is dipped in sugar and strikes with great fanfare and celebration cloaked and hidden in the finest silk. We find such specimens in many among chowk that support colonization, those that support Musharraf and the Pakistan Army's rule in this country, we even have mainstreamed house salves that occupy entire political parties and talk the people talk while praising and supporting their enslavers....God damn them all, damn hamidm and damn tahmed and the rest of the supporters of human bondage...
#463 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 10:07:41 am
hamid writes "i sincerely believe that colonialism was the best thing that happened to the colored man (and woman) except that it didn't last long enough - the damn germans ruined it for us ..... "
A very simplistic argument that compares apples and oranges regarding regions and in the typical slave mentality attributes the modern day condition of certain colonized countries on colonization while ignoring the sea of underdevelopment perpetuated in many more regions and entire continents due to it. Need I say more, sage of the sewers?
Colonization reduced the "jewel" in the crown of the British empire from one of the leading economic powerhouses of the day back to the stone age, draining more from India by continued colonization wouldn't have fixed anything fool and get your history straight, the Germans gave Jinnah and the ML an opportunity to capitalize on their new found relationship with the British and mainstream themselves, leading to the foregone conlcusion of partition and the resulting bloodshed. It is disingenuous to compare two fart size territories Hong Kong and Macau, next to the giant where the Brits were trying to make inroads with a country the size of India, South Africa was a settler territory where the condition of the subordinate blacks under white rule was not at all better than our condition. The British colonization of Malaysia lasted for a much shorter period than their colonization of India, and their development cannot by any stretch of the imagination be laid on their colonial history, it is the "antithesis" of what colonization was pushing in India
A very simplistic argument that compares apples and oranges regarding regions and in the typical slave mentality attributes the modern day condition of certain colonized countries on colonization while ignoring the sea of underdevelopment perpetuated in many more regions and entire continents due to it. Need I say more, sage of the sewers?
Colonization reduced the "jewel" in the crown of the British empire from one of the leading economic powerhouses of the day back to the stone age, draining more from India by continued colonization wouldn't have fixed anything fool and get your history straight, the Germans gave Jinnah and the ML an opportunity to capitalize on their new found relationship with the British and mainstream themselves, leading to the foregone conlcusion of partition and the resulting bloodshed. It is disingenuous to compare two fart size territories Hong Kong and Macau, next to the giant where the Brits were trying to make inroads with a country the size of India, South Africa was a settler territory where the condition of the subordinate blacks under white rule was not at all better than our condition. The British colonization of Malaysia lasted for a much shorter period than their colonization of India, and their development cannot by any stretch of the imagination be laid on their colonial history, it is the "antithesis" of what colonization was pushing in India
#462 Posted by tahir on June 4, 2008 9:08:25 am
Re: # 459
"Pakistan-origin but without the documents to prove it"
And now ".....if it hadn't been for my complete 'bunch of losers' ancestors..."
Great fillers for the blanks....
"Pakistan-origin but without the documents to prove it"
And now ".....if it hadn't been for my complete 'bunch of losers' ancestors..."
Great fillers for the blanks....
#461 Posted by bubba on June 4, 2008 8:24:35 am
Re: # 410 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 9:08:45 pm
hamid mian,
{... who are these baluchis? .....}
somewhere, i had read that the baluchis were turks. can this be validated?
hamid mian,
{... who are these baluchis? .....}
somewhere, i had read that the baluchis were turks. can this be validated?
#460 Posted by dost_mittar on June 4, 2008 6:27:25 am
majumdar#458:
"In that case why only two decades They should have stayed on till now."
Because during that period, and if MKG had not interrupted, the Brits would have gradually prepared the "natives" for stepping into a civilised society, the way Lee Kuan Yiew did it in Singapore. India would have evolved from a colony to a dominion and to a republic and the Indians would have evolved with it.
To give a somewhat different example, Communist dictatorship was suddenly replaced by Capitalistic Democracy in the Soviet Union, and is gradually evolving towards capitalism and democracy in China, with vastly different outcomes.
"In that case why only two decades They should have stayed on till now."
Because during that period, and if MKG had not interrupted, the Brits would have gradually prepared the "natives" for stepping into a civilised society, the way Lee Kuan Yiew did it in Singapore. India would have evolved from a colony to a dominion and to a republic and the Indians would have evolved with it.
To give a somewhat different example, Communist dictatorship was suddenly replaced by Capitalistic Democracy in the Soviet Union, and is gradually evolving towards capitalism and democracy in China, with vastly different outcomes.
#459 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 6:09:11 am
Re: # 455; Zeemax
I agree with you on that...not just killing muslims but anyone at all
they betrayed their own countrymen against every invader throughout history.....if it hadn't been for my complete 'bunch of losers' ancestors, the muslim rule would not have established and taken root in India....to the extent that it did....
.....sadly that also means no interesting debates on Chowk either........clouds with silver linings ...and all that
Khuda Hafiz....need to sleep
I agree with you on that...not just killing muslims but anyone at all
they betrayed their own countrymen against every invader throughout history.....if it hadn't been for my complete 'bunch of losers' ancestors, the muslim rule would not have established and taken root in India....to the extent that it did....
.....sadly that also means no interesting debates on Chowk either........clouds with silver linings ...and all that
Khuda Hafiz....need to sleep
#458 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 6:02:34 am
DM sahib,
(I am on your and hamidm's side wrt the Brits staying longer in India for another two decades. )
In that case why only two decades They should have stayed on till now.
Regards
(I am on your and hamidm's side wrt the Brits staying longer in India for another two decades. )
In that case why only two decades They should have stayed on till now.
Regards
#457 Posted by dost_mittar on June 4, 2008 5:58:25 am
akcheema:
I am on your and hamidm's side wrt the Brits staying longer in India for another two decades. Back in 1947, India was far ahead of Hongkong, Aden, Singapore, Malaysia and the so-called Asian Tigres and China in terms of social, economic, educational and administrative infrastructure and the Indian Rupee was the commonly accepted currency in most of Asia. Mcaulay's children, who inherited these assets along with sizeable assets in the form of sterling balances, took no time in wasting these precious assets by turning India into a lab for the airy-fairy Fabian Socialists of LSE.
I am on your and hamidm's side wrt the Brits staying longer in India for another two decades. Back in 1947, India was far ahead of Hongkong, Aden, Singapore, Malaysia and the so-called Asian Tigres and China in terms of social, economic, educational and administrative infrastructure and the Indian Rupee was the commonly accepted currency in most of Asia. Mcaulay's children, who inherited these assets along with sizeable assets in the form of sterling balances, took no time in wasting these precious assets by turning India into a lab for the airy-fairy Fabian Socialists of LSE.
#456 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 5:57:10 am
Zee sahib,
Jats on both sides of the borders make very good farmers as well as fine fighting men. A large chunk of Injun Army would be Hindoo and Sikh Jats, I guess.
Regards
Jats on both sides of the borders make very good farmers as well as fine fighting men. A large chunk of Injun Army would be Hindoo and Sikh Jats, I guess.
Regards
#455 Posted by zeemax on June 4, 2008 5:54:11 am
#449 Posted by akcheema,
Cheema Saheb, YOU would have indeed been better off because your forefathers (i.e. Jatts in general) were all mercenaries of the British serving them in killing Muslims.
If you don't believe me, ask Pavocavalry, an expert on the subject of military history of the subcontinent.
Cheema Saheb, YOU would have indeed been better off because your forefathers (i.e. Jatts in general) were all mercenaries of the British serving them in killing Muslims.
If you don't believe me, ask Pavocavalry, an expert on the subject of military history of the subcontinent.
#454 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 5:52:10 am
Re: # 452; majumdar
I have become aware of that over the last couple of months. Hence the word "refreshing"; a big vote of confidence from me!
Khuda Hafiz....will talk soon
I have become aware of that over the last couple of months. Hence the word "refreshing"; a big vote of confidence from me!
Khuda Hafiz....will talk soon
#453 Posted by dost_mittar on June 4, 2008 5:49:12 am
hamidm#410:
".... i was born in quetta and when i was growing up i spent most of the summer vacation in my grandparents house on gurdat singh"
Was it your Nana's house by any chance? I am asking this because there was a tradition among Punjabi hindu/sikhs that mothers would go to their parents' home for the delivery of their child, especially the first-born, and wonder if the tradition extended to Muslims as well?
...and for your sake, I'll root for the Redwings tonight as the Sens are already out. But for you, I would have cheered for the Penguins as I like that kid Sid Crosby who, I think, belongs to the grand tradition of gentlemen players like Ken Dryden, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemiux.
".... i was born in quetta and when i was growing up i spent most of the summer vacation in my grandparents house on gurdat singh"
Was it your Nana's house by any chance? I am asking this because there was a tradition among Punjabi hindu/sikhs that mothers would go to their parents' home for the delivery of their child, especially the first-born, and wonder if the tradition extended to Muslims as well?
...and for your sake, I'll root for the Redwings tonight as the Sens are already out. But for you, I would have cheered for the Penguins as I like that kid Sid Crosby who, I think, belongs to the grand tradition of gentlemen players like Ken Dryden, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemiux.
#452 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 5:48:27 am
Cheema sahib,
Hamid mian and Masadi sahib are the two original thinkers of the chowk. They are on opposite poles in terms of ideology though.
Regards
Hamid mian and Masadi sahib are the two original thinkers of the chowk. They are on opposite poles in terms of ideology though.
Regards
#451 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 5:46:15 am
Re: # 450; majumdar
"I think you got me wrong, I am not an Hamidist."
and here begins a new and refreshing way of thinking.......HAMIDISM!!
...bravo hamidm sahib!
"I think you got me wrong, I am not an Hamidist."
and here begins a new and refreshing way of thinking.......HAMIDISM!!
...bravo hamidm sahib!
#450 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 5:42:08 am
Tahmed sahib,
I think you got me wrong, I am not an Hamidist. I think the independence of India and Pak was a good thing becuase whatever "advantage" (that is, if there was ANY to begin with) of colonial rule to Indians was pretty much exhausted by 1947. Continuation of colonial rule wud have been harmful to both desis as well as goras.
I am afraid you are completely wrong on MKG. The man was a retrogressive, reactionary man at the worst and completely impractical at the best. But yes he did do a few good things.
1. He prevented the anti-Brit feeling from getting into the hands of anarchist, violent types.
2. By plunging among the masses he brought about a politicisation of the masses and created a rapport b/w people and politicians which contirbuted positively to making parliamentary democracy feasible in India. (Sadly this was completely missing on the other side.)
Regards
I think you got me wrong, I am not an Hamidist. I think the independence of India and Pak was a good thing becuase whatever "advantage" (that is, if there was ANY to begin with) of colonial rule to Indians was pretty much exhausted by 1947. Continuation of colonial rule wud have been harmful to both desis as well as goras.
I am afraid you are completely wrong on MKG. The man was a retrogressive, reactionary man at the worst and completely impractical at the best. But yes he did do a few good things.
1. He prevented the anti-Brit feeling from getting into the hands of anarchist, violent types.
2. By plunging among the masses he brought about a politicisation of the masses and created a rapport b/w people and politicians which contirbuted positively to making parliamentary democracy feasible in India. (Sadly this was completely missing on the other side.)
Regards
#449 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 5:34:59 am
Re: # 447; tahmed
"would india have been better off if the brits had stuck around half-century? I dont think so."
I disagree in the strongest possible terms sir
Khuda Hafiz
"would india have been better off if the brits had stuck around half-century? I dont think so."
I disagree in the strongest possible terms sir
Khuda Hafiz
#448 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 5:31:36 am
#446 In some circles it is fashionable to call anyone who is not a total lunatic or criminal an "idealist" or "naive". But it is these "idealists" like Gandhi who did what the criminals and lunatics could never do - move a nation forward.
#447 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 5:28:28 am
majumdar: history is not formed by any single factor - while wwi/ii no doubt physically weakened the colonial empires, it was the rising middle classes and what used to be called "western education" that gave rise to the leadership of freedom movements in virtually every asian country.
Was the british rule a plus for India - definitely. The brits came to a nation ruled by kings, left the nation as a democracy. Instead of palaces and mosques built by kings for their personal glory in this world and the next, the brits built roads, canals, railways, schools, colleges.
However, would india have been better off if the brits had stuck around half-century? I dont think so.
Was the british rule a plus for India - definitely. The brits came to a nation ruled by kings, left the nation as a democracy. Instead of palaces and mosques built by kings for their personal glory in this world and the next, the brits built roads, canals, railways, schools, colleges.
However, would india have been better off if the brits had stuck around half-century? I dont think so.
#446 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 5:21:07 am
Re: # 444; harish
I respect Gandhi more than you'd ever know; but let's face it...he was a naive idealist...that's what makes him more endearing in my eyes
enough on that....I am not in the mood for a Gandhi-Jinnah comparison...needless to say, I did my own research on YLH as prescribed by Majumdar and came up with quite the opposite results!!
I respect Gandhi more than you'd ever know; but let's face it...he was a naive idealist...that's what makes him more endearing in my eyes
enough on that....I am not in the mood for a Gandhi-Jinnah comparison...needless to say, I did my own research on YLH as prescribed by Majumdar and came up with quite the opposite results!!
#445 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 5:20:32 am
Harishbhai,
We have a similar saying in Bong.
Mom asks "Who is in the pantry"
Child replies "I didn't steal the candy"
Regards
We have a similar saying in Bong.
Mom asks "Who is in the pantry"
Child replies "I didn't steal the candy"
Regards
#444 Posted by harish_hyd on June 4, 2008 5:17:49 am
#442 by majumdar
Majumdar bhai, you're getting more desperate by the day. There's a saying in Telugu which crudely translates into: "When asked who robbed the pumpkin, the thief was the only one who shrugged his shoulders".
Majumdar bhai, you're getting more desperate by the day. There's a saying in Telugu which crudely translates into: "When asked who robbed the pumpkin, the thief was the only one who shrugged his shoulders".
#443 Posted by akcheema on June 4, 2008 5:13:50 am
Re: # 442; majumdar
you only had to ask mate!
I am right behind you on that one
you only had to ask mate!
I am right behind you on that one
#442 Posted by majumdar on June 4, 2008 5:11:06 am
Hamid mian,
(the damn germans ruined it for us )
At last I have met another chowkie who shares my belief that the independence of India and Pak was 'cos of the satyagraha launched by the white Aryan mahatma and not the (alleged) sacrifices made by the (alleged) freedom fighters.
Regards
(the damn germans ruined it for us )
At last I have met another chowkie who shares my belief that the independence of India and Pak was 'cos of the satyagraha launched by the white Aryan mahatma and not the (alleged) sacrifices made by the (alleged) freedom fighters.
Regards
#441 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 5:07:40 am
hamidm: so in taking up the position of "peon of the west" are you planning to give up your day job as "lota of the east"?
#440 Posted by hamidm2 on June 4, 2008 4:59:00 am
Re: # 433
masadi mian,
.... stop being so hard on tahmed - all he wants is the droopy eyed cj resotored ..... once that happens everything will be all right ..... no load shedding, atta will be for annas a maund, everyone will have indoor toilets and deodrant, the americans will leave afghanistan and waziristan will turn into switzerland ........ that's all he wants ....
..... if you want to call someone peon of the west, i will voluteer ..... i sincerely believe that colonialism was the best thing that happened to the colored man (and woman) except that it didn't last long enough - the damn germans ruined it for us ..... just look at hong kong, macau, south africa and even malayasia - arn't they better off than us ? .....
masadi mian,
.... stop being so hard on tahmed - all he wants is the droopy eyed cj resotored ..... once that happens everything will be all right ..... no load shedding, atta will be for annas a maund, everyone will have indoor toilets and deodrant, the americans will leave afghanistan and waziristan will turn into switzerland ........ that's all he wants ....
..... if you want to call someone peon of the west, i will voluteer ..... i sincerely believe that colonialism was the best thing that happened to the colored man (and woman) except that it didn't last long enough - the damn germans ruined it for us ..... just look at hong kong, macau, south africa and even malayasia - arn't they better off than us ? .....
#438 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:43:50 am
peon sahib: perhaps masadi is trying to break the Dumb record on chowk sahib. Maybe he is aiming to become the Gold Medallist for Dumb sahib.
#437 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:42:02 am
Re: # 435
tahmeedi saab, Salam saab as the baangladaishis will ban us again saab
tahmeedi saab, Salam saab as the baangladaishis will ban us again saab
#436 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:39:07 am
Re: # 433
masadi saab, what argument saab?
your argument is always same saab, peon of the west,peon of the west, peon of the west all the time saab
when you change record saab it is US elite, US elite, US elite all time saab
peon thought you were clever saab but you are like broken record saab
masadi saab, what argument saab?
your argument is always same saab, peon of the west,peon of the west, peon of the west all the time saab
when you change record saab it is US elite, US elite, US elite all time saab
peon thought you were clever saab but you are like broken record saab
#435 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:38:04 am
masadi #433 why have you been trying to pass yourself off as a bangladeshi to peon sahib? is this your way to add insult over injury to bangladeshis?!!
#434 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:35:21 am
#431 peon sahib: please dont say masadi is bangladeshi sahib. this will make all bangladeshis mad at us once again.
#433 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 4:34:54 am
tahmed writes "and masadi becomes Dumb. Rest of the time masadi becomes Dumber..."
More fluff and bs from someone completely and thoroughly stumped by arguments and exposed on this site as a moronic charlatan with the morals of a slug, who is inviting the barbarians at our gate (the US) to come rape our mothers, daughters and sisters just as they have raped our land through the Pakistan Army....
More fluff and bs from someone completely and thoroughly stumped by arguments and exposed on this site as a moronic charlatan with the morals of a slug, who is inviting the barbarians at our gate (the US) to come rape our mothers, daughters and sisters just as they have raped our land through the Pakistan Army....
#432 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:34:12 am
#429 peon sahib: you mean masadi is like a submarine sitting on the ocean floor with nowhere lower to go, sahib?
#431 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:33:44 am
Re: # 430
tahmeedi saab are you saying masadi saab is baangladaishi saab?
tahmeedi saab are you saying masadi saab is baangladaishi saab?
#430 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:32:37 am
peon sahib: they must have banned you sahib because masadi knows someone in the Evil Elite.
#429 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:32:35 am
Re: # 428
tahmeedi saab peon doesnot know santanananani too well saab but masadi saab is same all time saab
tahmeedi saab peon doesnot know santanananani too well saab but masadi saab is same all time saab
#428 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:30:07 am
peon sahib: i think sardar santani becomes Dumber at 12 noon only sahib, and masadi becomes Dumb. Rest of the time masadi becomes Dumber and santani becomes Dumb.
This is a scientific phenonmenon, sahib, like the summer solstice of the sun.
This is a scientific phenonmenon, sahib, like the summer solstice of the sun.
#427 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:29:38 am
Re: # 426
tahmeedi saab peon cannot say too much saab
they banned peon saab and all peon's famly saab
peon doesnot know how this gets to you now saab
there must be some baangladaishi here saab
tahmeedi saab peon cannot say too much saab
they banned peon saab and all peon's famly saab
peon doesnot know how this gets to you now saab
there must be some baangladaishi here saab
#426 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:27:11 am
peon sahib: you mean santani and masadi are like the stars of Dumb and Dumber sahib?
#425 Posted by peonofthewest on June 4, 2008 4:23:06 am
Re: # 422
tahmeedi saab this sanatanananani is a baangladaishi saab?
he is more stupid than masadi saab who talks the same all time saab like peon of the west, peon of the west,peon of the west,peon of the west saab
very moronic saab if you ask peon saab
tahmeedi saab this sanatanananani is a baangladaishi saab?
he is more stupid than masadi saab who talks the same all time saab like peon of the west, peon of the west,peon of the west,peon of the west saab
very moronic saab if you ask peon saab
#422 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:18:34 am
sanatani: balay, balay. tooN tey musulmaana di bari besti kar gya aiN.
#421 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 4:18:08 am
RE #419: as usual tahmed the master of shallow spineless analysis come back with his best shot, a dimwit tale regarding a certain "baluchi" chap, for him he would rather see US troops swarm through baluchistan en-route to Iran...
#420 Posted by masadi on June 4, 2008 4:15:28 am
Hamid writes "some half-breed from saginaw..."
The only "half-breed" in the entire human population of the world today is you, tahmed might be the only other one befitting the term...
The only "half-breed" in the entire human population of the world today is you, tahmed might be the only other one befitting the term...
#419 Posted by tahmed32 on June 4, 2008 4:15:04 am
there was this baluch chap who would assure us that his life's dream was to die fighting, gun in hand, in the hills of baluchistan. he ended up marrying a panjabi woman and commuting between his islamabad job and lahore inlaws.
so - that is one baluch missing from baluchistan accounted for.
so - that is one baluch missing from baluchistan accounted for.
#418 Posted by hamidm2 on June 4, 2008 4:00:17 am
hp mian,
..... even though i agree with you 99.9% of the time and zeemax is certainly a demented jihadi, i have to agree with him on this one .....
..... a baluch talking about baluchistan is no different from some half-breed from saginaw talking about an independent indian state in michigan .....
..... i think the government of pakistan shluld allow the bugtis, marris, marris and other tribes to operate casinos and brothels on their tribal lands but let's not get carried away ....... i ewould even support a casino on prince road in quetta as long as the city gets 15% of the take .......
#417 Posted by zeemax on June 4, 2008 2:15:07 am
#415/416 Posted by HP:
The term 'geographical Baluchistan' was used by him. AND he said there were no resources in Pushtun areas and they could do with it what they want. You need headphones, not me Sain!
Re Brahuis, the entire coastal belt including Gwadar belongs to them. And they are NOT Baluch. They have different ethnic origins (check wiki), and they are all pro-Federation.
Bugtis, Mengals, Marri, Raisani, Chandios, Zehri are Baluch but not Jamali in your list. Jamali tribe is Brahui which owns the Uch gas fields near Dera Murad Jamali. Kallatis, Makranis are not 'Baluch' either.
Which Baluch are you mouthing off about?
HP Mian, I only butt in when you begin to make a fool of yourself with your superficial knowledge claiming to be the ibne-batuta of Pakistan.
The term 'geographical Baluchistan' was used by him. AND he said there were no resources in Pushtun areas and they could do with it what they want. You need headphones, not me Sain!
Re Brahuis, the entire coastal belt including Gwadar belongs to them. And they are NOT Baluch. They have different ethnic origins (check wiki), and they are all pro-Federation.
Bugtis, Mengals, Marri, Raisani, Chandios, Zehri are Baluch but not Jamali in your list. Jamali tribe is Brahui which owns the Uch gas fields near Dera Murad Jamali. Kallatis, Makranis are not 'Baluch' either.
Which Baluch are you mouthing off about?
HP Mian, I only butt in when you begin to make a fool of yourself with your superficial knowledge claiming to be the ibne-batuta of Pakistan.
#416 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 12:14:24 am
#408 Posted by zeemax
“Pushtuns exist only in the 'geographical' Baluchistan, that all resources exist in Baluch-only areas, and the Pushtuns can stay or leave or do whatever they want?�
And now you can’t even understand Urdu. He said Pakhtuns are our brothers and the areas they live in historically belong to them and they can come with us or go their separate ways.
I agree with this position. He is not trying to force anything on Pakhtuns and he was not making any claims on the Pukhtun areas.
Go and watch the vid again and use headphone so you can understand. Perhaps you have never heard a Baloch speak before in your life….might have seen them in pictures.
You think with Judges restored, all problems in Pakistan would just go away….Get out of your dream world. The Judges restoration would just be the beginning. I hope they are restored and then you watch damma dum mast qalandar after that!
“Pushtuns exist only in the 'geographical' Baluchistan, that all resources exist in Baluch-only areas, and the Pushtuns can stay or leave or do whatever they want?�
And now you can’t even understand Urdu. He said Pakhtuns are our brothers and the areas they live in historically belong to them and they can come with us or go their separate ways.
I agree with this position. He is not trying to force anything on Pakhtuns and he was not making any claims on the Pukhtun areas.
Go and watch the vid again and use headphone so you can understand. Perhaps you have never heard a Baloch speak before in your life….might have seen them in pictures.
You think with Judges restored, all problems in Pakistan would just go away….Get out of your dream world. The Judges restoration would just be the beginning. I hope they are restored and then you watch damma dum mast qalandar after that!
#415 Posted by HP on June 4, 2008 12:03:56 am
#411 Posted by zeemax
"And here we have HP thinking he's the 'voice' of Baluchistan."
You have some serious problems. You need to read my post
#380 Posted by HP again, instead of making up stories.
"Yes, the majority of Baluch are actually not in Baluchistan (except the Sardari tribal levies and some nomadic tribes). They're more in South Punjab and Sind. The real population of Baluchistan are Brahvis and Pushtun."
As always you butt in to some thing you have no idea about. Yes, more Baloch live in Punjab and Sindh but it does not mean that they don't live in Baluchistan. They are a majority in Balochistan. What are Bugtis, mengals, Marri, Raisani, Chandios,Zehri, Jamali and other tribes? They are all Baloch. There is no difference in Brohui or Brohi and Baloch. Ghous Bux Bizenjo was a Brahui.
The Pakhtuns only live in areas close to Afghanistan. I believe 9 districts out 27 are Pakhtun. Like Burhamdagh Bugti said if the Pakhtuns want to go their way no Baloch would have any problem because that area belongs to Pakhtuns.
"And here we have HP thinking he's the 'voice' of Baluchistan."
You have some serious problems. You need to read my post
#380 Posted by HP again, instead of making up stories.
"Yes, the majority of Baluch are actually not in Baluchistan (except the Sardari tribal levies and some nomadic tribes). They're more in South Punjab and Sind. The real population of Baluchistan are Brahvis and Pushtun."
As always you butt in to some thing you have no idea about. Yes, more Baloch live in Punjab and Sindh but it does not mean that they don't live in Baluchistan. They are a majority in Balochistan. What are Bugtis, mengals, Marri, Raisani, Chandios,Zehri, Jamali and other tribes? They are all Baloch. There is no difference in Brohui or Brohi and Baloch. Ghous Bux Bizenjo was a Brahui.
The Pakhtuns only live in areas close to Afghanistan. I believe 9 districts out 27 are Pakhtun. Like Burhamdagh Bugti said if the Pakhtuns want to go their way no Baloch would have any problem because that area belongs to Pakhtuns.
#414 Posted by izuber on June 3, 2008 11:25:42 pm
Re: # 412
Santani
balay balay tainoon mun gaye ussi, bari sohni gal keeti haye.
Khuda taala teri shadi cheti keraway, ameen.
Santani
balay balay tainoon mun gaye ussi, bari sohni gal keeti haye.
Khuda taala teri shadi cheti keraway, ameen.
#413 Posted by izuber on June 3, 2008 11:23:55 pm
#265 Posted by tahmed32
o'jee eh vee koi gal hoyi? where do you find the suicide bombers and hang them? as it is they kill themselves before they are known as suicide bombers. Lo ker lo gal!
aiwaeen
Langoat hor tahmedich bara farq honda haye janab.
o'jee eh vee koi gal hoyi? where do you find the suicide bombers and hang them? as it is they kill themselves before they are known as suicide bombers. Lo ker lo gal!
aiwaeen
Langoat hor tahmedich bara farq honda haye janab.
#412 Posted by Sanatani on June 3, 2008 10:55:44 pm
Re: # 265
Tahmediya,
beizti oddi hondi ae jiddi izzat hove.
Muslai de beizti kya oddi izzat kya.
Tahmediya,
beizti oddi hondi ae jiddi izzat hove.
Muslai de beizti kya oddi izzat kya.
#411 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 10:42:30 pm
#410 Posted by hamidm2,
Yes, the majority of Baluch are actually not in Baluchistan (except the Sardari tribal levies and some nomadic tribes). They're more in South Punjab and Sind. The real population of Baluchistan are Brahvis and Pushtun.
Brahamdagh is an angry young man, propped up by bharat, whose own family clan does not support him. And here we have HP thinking he's the 'voice' of Baluchistan.
Of-course why wouldn't he? He's a Sindhi separatist himself. If he didn't hate macacas so much, he would be sojourning too to macacia looking for support.
Yes, the majority of Baluch are actually not in Baluchistan (except the Sardari tribal levies and some nomadic tribes). They're more in South Punjab and Sind. The real population of Baluchistan are Brahvis and Pushtun.
Brahamdagh is an angry young man, propped up by bharat, whose own family clan does not support him. And here we have HP thinking he's the 'voice' of Baluchistan.
Of-course why wouldn't he? He's a Sindhi separatist himself. If he didn't hate macacas so much, he would be sojourning too to macacia looking for support.
#410 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 9:08:45 pm
Re: # 408
zeemax,
.... i was born in quetta and when i was growing up i spent most of the summer vacation in my grandparents house on gurdat singh road, but i never met a baluchi ! ...... all the people i knew, including the shopkeepers near khanbaba's store on prince road, hafizullah mamoon's restaurant on alamdar road and inaytullah mamoon's hotel in liaqat bazar were pushtuns ..... actually most of the people on alamdar road were funny looking hazaras ...... my grandfather spoke dari and everyone else i knew spoke pushto .... the only person who spoke baluchi, kakri and brahui was another mamoon who was the black sheep of the family involved with smuggling, gambling and other not so nice activities .... grandma blamed it on the baluchi scoundrels he ran around with even though we never saw them (it seems they only come out at night)....
... who are these baluchis? ..... even the baluch regimemental center is located in abbotabad in pakhtunkhwa ! ......... go figure
zeemax,
.... i was born in quetta and when i was growing up i spent most of the summer vacation in my grandparents house on gurdat singh road, but i never met a baluchi ! ...... all the people i knew, including the shopkeepers near khanbaba's store on prince road, hafizullah mamoon's restaurant on alamdar road and inaytullah mamoon's hotel in liaqat bazar were pushtuns ..... actually most of the people on alamdar road were funny looking hazaras ...... my grandfather spoke dari and everyone else i knew spoke pushto .... the only person who spoke baluchi, kakri and brahui was another mamoon who was the black sheep of the family involved with smuggling, gambling and other not so nice activities .... grandma blamed it on the baluchi scoundrels he ran around with even though we never saw them (it seems they only come out at night)....
... who are these baluchis? ..... even the baluch regimemental center is located in abbotabad in pakhtunkhwa ! ......... go figure
#409 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 7:22:38 pm
#404 Posted by tahmed32
... until they put up a sign saying you can watch Geo on the internet only in Pakistan...
Instead of going through Geo website, c/p this directly into Windows Media Player in the 'Open URL' window:
mms://stream.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_stream_geo_tv_geolive
This way you can watch it anywhere.
... until they put up a sign saying you can watch Geo on the internet only in Pakistan...
Instead of going through Geo website, c/p this directly into Windows Media Player in the 'Open URL' window:
mms://stream.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_stream_geo_tv_geolive
This way you can watch it anywhere.
#408 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 7:16:25 pm
HP,
HP, I see you're jumping up and down over Brahamdagh Bugti. What're your comments re Brahamdagh's position that Pushtuns exist only in the 'geographical' Baluchistan, that all resources exist in Baluch-only areas, and the Pushtuns can stay or leave or do whatever they want?
HP, I see you're jumping up and down over Brahamdagh Bugti. What're your comments re Brahamdagh's position that Pushtuns exist only in the 'geographical' Baluchistan, that all resources exist in Baluch-only areas, and the Pushtuns can stay or leave or do whatever they want?
#407 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 6:01:45 pm
hp,
.... do you realize that the world series, stanley cup and the super bowl were held on time even during the great depression, ww-I, ww-II, korea, vietnam, osama-I, desert shield and desert storm ..... actually, super bowl XXXVI was delayed for a couple of days by the silly antics of the crazy moslems but, by and large, sports has always been more important for the american people than some silly war .......
........ what does that tell you ? .... our resident sheikh chilli, tahmed, might think that the schoolyard tiff between a droopy-eyed cj and the tin pot dictator of a ganna republic really matters, but we - the people who matter - don't give a rat's behind until the stanley cup is over .....
go redwings !
aml zindabad !
p.s. i think the future of pakistan lies with the aml and, inshallah, in the near future i will be hosting a fund raising dinner for my garain, the indomitable sheikh rashid ....
#406 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 4:35:52 pm
pssssst..hamidm: watching redwings certainly puts you ahead in your quest to get a "gora certificate" to put on your fridge. i understand though that in order to be a real black..er white..belt gora, you need to stand on one leg all tuesday night. So..its tuesday..get to it!!
#405 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 4:21:39 pm
cb #399 ben laden and musharraf prove that you should never trust a man who colors his hair.
#404 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 4:13:30 pm
HP: actually I dont even have Geo (used to watch it on the internet until they put up a sign saying you can watch Geo on the internet only in Pakistan - so now I watch aaj on jumptv.com).
Today though the missus ordered Geo and aaj plus Pakistan TV to cater to summer refugees from Pakistan (who complained last year about US TV not understanding that Pakistan is the center of the universe).
Today though the missus ordered Geo and aaj plus Pakistan TV to cater to summer refugees from Pakistan (who complained last year about US TV not understanding that Pakistan is the center of the universe).
#403 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 3:11:20 pm
صدر مشرÙ? Û½ آمريڪا مان آيل Ù‡Úª Ù?ون ڪال!
I am reading a Sindhi paper and the columnist is really upset that Bush called to save mush. He wrote when everything now in the world can be done remotely,then Mush can be President remotely. He thinks it would be a good idea to get Mush a house near Penn ave and he can be Pak President via VPN.
I think I like this idea!
I am reading a Sindhi paper and the columnist is really upset that Bush called to save mush. He wrote when everything now in the world can be done remotely,then Mush can be President remotely. He thinks it would be a good idea to get Mush a house near Penn ave and he can be Pak President via VPN.
I think I like this idea!
#402 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 3:01:38 pm
"just perpetually hitting, running and skating"
Sorry they never run....
Sorry they never run....
#401 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 2:57:36 pm
"the future is on its way ! even bin laden dies his beard for sex appealling the camera"
That reminds me I read somewhere that a plane is parked at chaklala to take some VIPs away. Well, I thought perhaps it was time for OBL and Alzhwari to move to gitmo. I mean how long could Mush hide them in the army house basement?
That reminds me I read somewhere that a plane is parked at chaklala to take some VIPs away. Well, I thought perhaps it was time for OBL and Alzhwari to move to gitmo. I mean how long could Mush hide them in the army house basement?
#400 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 2:50:49 pm
"for now i am more worried about the redwings .... maybe thursday after the big party i will start worrying about the motherland - nothing is expected to change by then ... is it?"
Hamid,
I stopped worrying about the sporting events a long time ago. All big events are fixed like the IPL in India!
I don't know if things would change by thursday or not but the way they are back there, situation would always be fluid. I know tahmed sleeps with one eye and keeps the other eye glued to Geo. I would say ask Tahmed to send you a text msg as soon as droopy eyes take over. Mush does not interest me anymore. He is under house arrest in the army house...It is just not public yet...
So don't worry, but watching redwings...yacky! How do you know where the puck is? To me they are just perpetually hitting, running and skating for something no one can see.
Ice hockey is boring. Hockey needs some kickass cheerleaders.
Hamid,
I stopped worrying about the sporting events a long time ago. All big events are fixed like the IPL in India!
I don't know if things would change by thursday or not but the way they are back there, situation would always be fluid. I know tahmed sleeps with one eye and keeps the other eye glued to Geo. I would say ask Tahmed to send you a text msg as soon as droopy eyes take over. Mush does not interest me anymore. He is under house arrest in the army house...It is just not public yet...
So don't worry, but watching redwings...yacky! How do you know where the puck is? To me they are just perpetually hitting, running and skating for something no one can see.
Ice hockey is boring. Hockey needs some kickass cheerleaders.
#399 Posted by cliftonbridge on June 3, 2008 2:50:30 pm
i agree that pakis trying to win media wars is a huge step up ... the future is on its way ! even bin laden dies his beard for sex appealling the camera.
#398 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 2:31:50 pm
Re: # 397
..... they also showed his grandpappy's blown up cave and wrist watch on tv and nothing happened .... big deal! ..... all the people who matter are watching zeetv and oprah - the rest are standing in line for atta or are in the dark because of load shedding ......... the more things change the more they remain the same ...... for now i am more worried about the redwings .... maybe thursday after the big party i will start worrying about the motherland - nothing is expected to change by then ... is it?
..... they also showed his grandpappy's blown up cave and wrist watch on tv and nothing happened .... big deal! ..... all the people who matter are watching zeetv and oprah - the rest are standing in line for atta or are in the dark because of load shedding ......... the more things change the more they remain the same ...... for now i am more worried about the redwings .... maybe thursday after the big party i will start worrying about the motherland - nothing is expected to change by then ... is it?
#397 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 2:20:08 pm
"but the present is no different than the past "
How could you say that hamid?
Did you not see the grand warrior Burhamdagh Bugti on TV with all that beard and chaste urdu tinged with Persian. I was mesmerized and could not believe how times have changed.
He could become a good anchor person for Geo instead of that nutso Hamid....
#396 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 2:10:06 pm
Re: # 395
hp,
but the present is no different than the past - it is deja vous all over again ! .... and we have already seen the future .... sorry
hp,
but the present is no different than the past - it is deja vous all over again ! .... and we have already seen the future .... sorry
#395 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 2:07:31 pm
"it is time to go back to the real world "
Hamid,
we can't turn the clock back..You are stuck with fitay moonh, droopy eyes or not!
Tahmed still can't find sirat e Mustaqeem but he working on it!
Hamid,
we can't turn the clock back..You are stuck with fitay moonh, droopy eyes or not!
Tahmed still can't find sirat e Mustaqeem but he working on it!
#394 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 1:58:40 pm
Re: # 393
rr and hp.
..... tahmed proves my point ..... he is the second coming of sheikh chilli .....
rr and hp.
..... tahmed proves my point ..... he is the second coming of sheikh chilli .....
#393 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 1:57:00 pm
sr and hp,
.... i think we pakis have started to take ourselves too seriously in the recent past .... it is as if we actually believe that all this hullabaloo about restoration of democracy and dignity of the common man is for real ...... it is not - it is business as usual and we can save everyone a lot of hearburn and heartache by accepting reality .......
..... it was nice to play at fair and free elections, constitutionalism, independence of judiciary, rule of law and all those other trappings of a civilized society, but now it is time to go back to the real world ....... sorry for the rude reminder
.... i think we pakis have started to take ourselves too seriously in the recent past .... it is as if we actually believe that all this hullabaloo about restoration of democracy and dignity of the common man is for real ...... it is not - it is business as usual and we can save everyone a lot of hearburn and heartache by accepting reality .......
..... it was nice to play at fair and free elections, constitutionalism, independence of judiciary, rule of law and all those other trappings of a civilized society, but now it is time to go back to the real world ....... sorry for the rude reminder
#392 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 1:54:17 pm
#391 hamidm: you write gazillions of posts on pakistan politics, then turn around and claim that all this does not matter to you in your loft perch in the US. this makes you seem as fake as kiani's wig..
not just that, your gazillions of posts are dripping with lotaism that reflect either some personal stake or worse..mere "aadat say majboor".
not just that, your gazillions of posts are dripping with lotaism that reflect either some personal stake or worse..mere "aadat say majboor".
#391 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 1:39:03 pm
... to be honest, all this stuff really doesn't matter ...... like they say in the mother tongue, "kiya pidi, kya pidi ka shorba' ....... what really matters is that the redwings lost at 1:00 am this morning in the third overtime ..... tomorrow i am going to joe louis arena and watch them on the big screen along with a couple of thousand beer guzzling fellow detroiters ......
......for all i care, they can drop the big bomb on miranshah and mirali and wana and all those godforsaken places ......... as far as the civilized world is concerned a couple of thousand dead third world types is no big loss for mankind ..... it is not as if one of them was going to cure cancer or write a symphony ....
..... but i am glad that the constitutional package to reinstate the droopy-eyed judge and establish democracy will be reviewed by a joint ppp-pml(n) committee after the budget session ...... and after that i am sure it will be presented to maulana fazloo, the army, tahmed's third cousin, bala the doodh wala and then washington ...... and then what ? ....... who cares ... by that time sheikh rashid will be the prime minister and masadi will be his cook ........
aml zindabad !
#390 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 12:59:30 pm
Masadi-esque ? Chaos -- anarchist's goal...!! Anarchy -- marxist's tool --- soul selling capitalist...?
Wow...!!!
I've been admonished in my time, but never with such ferocity and so elegently. Being compared to "master Masadi" is a new slur word. When it passes on into The New Webster's Unabridged, Chowk dot com must get a citation.
Which one are you?
I am an anarchic-marxist-capitalist, if that means something. But one thing I am not is an extremist bigoted anything. To borrow Naseem Taleb's term, I may claim to be a skeptical empericist.
...SR
Wow...!!!
I've been admonished in my time, but never with such ferocity and so elegently. Being compared to "master Masadi" is a new slur word. When it passes on into The New Webster's Unabridged, Chowk dot com must get a citation.
Which one are you?
I am an anarchic-marxist-capitalist, if that means something. But one thing I am not is an extremist bigoted anything. To borrow Naseem Taleb's term, I may claim to be a skeptical empericist.
...SR
#389 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 12:56:57 pm
#386 Posted by SR
"Why? What are we waiting for?"
I have lots of chores to finish before I leave home for any mission:) Thats why I need you to slowdown, unless you wanna go ahead all by yourself.
"But the point is still that many of those who stoop to the depths of our Danish bombers in the mistaken notion of retaliation against tauheen-e-rasalat "
True, but Qadianis can laugh at a similar video that might have a caricature of other prophets in it. Ask Kulahree.
Bottom line: they are all similar because they allow themselves to be led by dogma.
"Why? What are we waiting for?"
I have lots of chores to finish before I leave home for any mission:) Thats why I need you to slowdown, unless you wanna go ahead all by yourself.
"But the point is still that many of those who stoop to the depths of our Danish bombers in the mistaken notion of retaliation against tauheen-e-rasalat "
True, but Qadianis can laugh at a similar video that might have a caricature of other prophets in it. Ask Kulahree.
Bottom line: they are all similar because they allow themselves to be led by dogma.
#387 Posted by Dash_Dot on June 3, 2008 12:39:40 pm
SR:Let the centrifugal forces tear down the edifice of this petty pseudo-empire along with its rotting imperial military, its necrotic colonial bureaucracy and its putrefied feudal aristocracy.
so Masadi-isk. If you removed your ID on the interact as SR and put in Masadi, people would not no the difference?
Aren't you over dramatising the whole thing? Chaos is the goal of the anarchists, while anarchy is the tool of the Marxists and the revolutionaries. Which one are you? Still you have sold your soul for the soles of a capitalist!
so Masadi-isk. If you removed your ID on the interact as SR and put in Masadi, people would not no the difference?
Aren't you over dramatising the whole thing? Chaos is the goal of the anarchists, while anarchy is the tool of the Marxists and the revolutionaries. Which one are you? Still you have sold your soul for the soles of a capitalist!
#386 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 12:38:46 pm
Re: # 383 HP ["...You are dramatizing it. There are tons of Muslims in Pakistan alone who would condemn this kind of Bigotry..."]
Yes, you are right. Of course I am dramatizing. Everyone knows that. I am a Punjabi Muslim and I, along with many of my friends, have always condemned such bigotry.
That was meant to be a rhetorical statement.
But the point is still that many of those who stoop to the depths of our Danish bombers in the mistaken notion of retaliation against tauheen-e-rasalat are the very same ones who would roll over laughing at the Quadiani mockery video.
...SR
PS: Ref 385 "...Slow down, one step at a time..."
Why? What are we waiting for? Nayk kaam meiN daair kuyuN Why fight the inevitability of the historical process?
Yes, you are right. Of course I am dramatizing. Everyone knows that. I am a Punjabi Muslim and I, along with many of my friends, have always condemned such bigotry.
That was meant to be a rhetorical statement.
But the point is still that many of those who stoop to the depths of our Danish bombers in the mistaken notion of retaliation against tauheen-e-rasalat are the very same ones who would roll over laughing at the Quadiani mockery video.
...SR
PS: Ref 385 "...Slow down, one step at a time..."
Why? What are we waiting for? Nayk kaam meiN daair kuyuN Why fight the inevitability of the historical process?
#385 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 12:31:54 pm
"Let the centrifugal forces tear down the edifice of this petty pseudo-empire along with its rotting imperial military, its necrotic colonial bureaucracy and its putrefied feudal aristocracy."
Not so fast! Slow down, One step at a time!:)
Not so fast! Slow down, One step at a time!:)
#384 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 12:26:55 pm
Re: # 381 HP ["... Baloch need all the support they can GET..."]
Amen to that...
Let the centrifugal forces tear down the edifice of this petty pseudo-empire along with its rotting imperial military, its necrotic colonial bureaucracy and its putrefied feudal aristocracy.
...SR
Amen to that...
Let the centrifugal forces tear down the edifice of this petty pseudo-empire along with its rotting imperial military, its necrotic colonial bureaucracy and its putrefied feudal aristocracy.
...SR
#383 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 12:26:21 pm
#382 Posted by SR
"Is there a single Muslim among more than a billion strong who has the integrity to condemn this openly?"
You are dramatizing it. There are tons of Muslims in Pakistan alone who would condemn this kind of Bigotry.
There is nothing against Qadianis in many parts of Pakistan. And they are Muslims.
This is a Punjabi issue and not a Muslim issue.
Qadianis are Muslims and there is nothing in Islam or the Quran that can change that. the Punjabi Muslims are a little different than the rest of them in Pakistan. Maybe we should declare all Punjabis Ghair Muslim. The Punjabi problem is not a Muslim problem and neither it is a Pakistani Problem. The constitution can be and will be changed.
"Is there a single Muslim among more than a billion strong who has the integrity to condemn this openly?"
You are dramatizing it. There are tons of Muslims in Pakistan alone who would condemn this kind of Bigotry.
There is nothing against Qadianis in many parts of Pakistan. And they are Muslims.
This is a Punjabi issue and not a Muslim issue.
Qadianis are Muslims and there is nothing in Islam or the Quran that can change that. the Punjabi Muslims are a little different than the rest of them in Pakistan. Maybe we should declare all Punjabis Ghair Muslim. The Punjabi problem is not a Muslim problem and neither it is a Pakistani Problem. The constitution can be and will be changed.
#382 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 12:14:05 pm
To Muslims who DO NOT tolerate any jokes against religious icons -- of ANY FAITH, or so they claim.
The issue of blasphemy against the shaan of prophet Mohammad is a hot topic these days. In fact, the rear end of the entire ummah seems to be literally on fire ever since the knighthood of that clown Rushdie.
I just want to highlight the acts of those who demand respect for their holy man.
What double standards they have. They would happily redicule the other guy's holy man.
Please see:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UQXkJXkW1wk
Is there a single Muslim among more than a billion strong who has the integrity to condemn this openly?
Curious minds want to know...
The issue of blasphemy against the shaan of prophet Mohammad is a hot topic these days. In fact, the rear end of the entire ummah seems to be literally on fire ever since the knighthood of that clown Rushdie.
I just want to highlight the acts of those who demand respect for their holy man.
What double standards they have. They would happily redicule the other guy's holy man.
Please see:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UQXkJXkW1wk
Is there a single Muslim among more than a billion strong who has the integrity to condemn this openly?
Curious minds want to know...
#381 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 12:10:50 pm
Correction:
"I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can."
Should be:
I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can GET.
"I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can."
Should be:
I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can GET.
#380 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 12:06:38 pm
Yesterday for the first time they had a Baloch Nationalist on the National TV asking for the independence of Baluchistan.
Barhamdagh Bugti is Akber Bugti’s grandson and he has started a political party of his own. I am not sure how much support he has in Baluchistan but the idea that someone from Baluchistan can be on the National TV and speak his mind is the sign of the changing political landscape in Pakistan. You may not agree with what people say on TV but providing them the opportunity to express their opinions, even when they are asking for independence, is the right step for the freedom of speech needed in Pakistan.
I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can. It is one nationality in Pakistan that has proportionally suffered more losses in human lives than the Bengalis did and they have been a target of the Pakistan army for such a long time that people have forgotten when was the last time there was no army action going on in Baluchistan.
Also yesterday, Pir Mazhar, the Sindh education minister announced that the core curriculum in Sindh school system will be changed to reflect the Sindhi values, culture and history. They will be removing all reference to the made up history in Pakistan. NO more religious history but the history of the people of Sindh and Pakistan. Not the alien Indian culture but the culture of Sindh will be promoted.
The stories would be about the Sindhi heroes who fought for the people against the Moghals and other foreign invaders, the People who lost their lives fighting against the British and the Pak army. People like GM Syed, Hosho Shedi, Nazir Abbasi, Ghansham Das and the thousands others that died in the army brigs or shot by the army for political dissent.
Barhamdagh Bugti is Akber Bugti’s grandson and he has started a political party of his own. I am not sure how much support he has in Baluchistan but the idea that someone from Baluchistan can be on the National TV and speak his mind is the sign of the changing political landscape in Pakistan. You may not agree with what people say on TV but providing them the opportunity to express their opinions, even when they are asking for independence, is the right step for the freedom of speech needed in Pakistan.
I salute AAJ Tv and Talat Hussain for giving him almost 45 minutes to say what he wanted to say. Baloch need all the support they can. It is one nationality in Pakistan that has proportionally suffered more losses in human lives than the Bengalis did and they have been a target of the Pakistan army for such a long time that people have forgotten when was the last time there was no army action going on in Baluchistan.
Also yesterday, Pir Mazhar, the Sindh education minister announced that the core curriculum in Sindh school system will be changed to reflect the Sindhi values, culture and history. They will be removing all reference to the made up history in Pakistan. NO more religious history but the history of the people of Sindh and Pakistan. Not the alien Indian culture but the culture of Sindh will be promoted.
The stories would be about the Sindhi heroes who fought for the people against the Moghals and other foreign invaders, the People who lost their lives fighting against the British and the Pak army. People like GM Syed, Hosho Shedi, Nazir Abbasi, Ghansham Das and the thousands others that died in the army brigs or shot by the army for political dissent.
#378 Posted by HP on June 3, 2008 11:03:47 am
#370 Posted by tahmed32
My views on the Jihadi in Fata are well known and I have no sympathy for them but the US army in Pakistan should never be acceptable, no matter how bad the conditions are. The Pak army is already fighting a proxy war for the US in that area and for that; all Army Generals should be tried for treason including this new democrat Kiyani. (We do need to take his annoying toupee off his head first.)
Here is how I see what’s happening. The former generals are coming out to build pressure on the current Generals to counter the US support to Mush. The Army would never listen to the public demands alone but these former officers create the fault lines in the army due to their influence and connections with the serving officers. The disagreements within the army can be used to soften the current COAS position and give him some room to work with the US in removing Mush.
The US support of Mush was expected. Since the US has no support in any political party, America finds it hard to leave a vacuum at the top. With Mush, the US still has the ability to roll up the current parliament.
I agree with you that the former officers’ motives may not be altruistic. They have been let loose by forces that see no hope of the Mush issue and the Judges resolution by the Parliament. Zardari in his stupidity has rendered the Parliament ineffective. The rope in Pakistan is now very tight and Zardari is simply clueless.
If this idiot continues to obstruct the resolution in the Parliament, more and more people would take to the streets. That would be a dangerous situation as the risk of yet another Martial Law or a puppet government would increase manifold.
I think Pakistan is possibly headed for a collision with the current US admin and the chances are the US would rather prefer a martial law over working with the politicians. The Pak army would come out in favor of the US rather than the people of Pakistan.
My views on the Jihadi in Fata are well known and I have no sympathy for them but the US army in Pakistan should never be acceptable, no matter how bad the conditions are. The Pak army is already fighting a proxy war for the US in that area and for that; all Army Generals should be tried for treason including this new democrat Kiyani. (We do need to take his annoying toupee off his head first.)
Here is how I see what’s happening. The former generals are coming out to build pressure on the current Generals to counter the US support to Mush. The Army would never listen to the public demands alone but these former officers create the fault lines in the army due to their influence and connections with the serving officers. The disagreements within the army can be used to soften the current COAS position and give him some room to work with the US in removing Mush.
The US support of Mush was expected. Since the US has no support in any political party, America finds it hard to leave a vacuum at the top. With Mush, the US still has the ability to roll up the current parliament.
I agree with you that the former officers’ motives may not be altruistic. They have been let loose by forces that see no hope of the Mush issue and the Judges resolution by the Parliament. Zardari in his stupidity has rendered the Parliament ineffective. The rope in Pakistan is now very tight and Zardari is simply clueless.
If this idiot continues to obstruct the resolution in the Parliament, more and more people would take to the streets. That would be a dangerous situation as the risk of yet another Martial Law or a puppet government would increase manifold.
I think Pakistan is possibly headed for a collision with the current US admin and the chances are the US would rather prefer a martial law over working with the politicians. The Pak army would come out in favor of the US rather than the people of Pakistan.
#377 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:53:16 am
Time to go, watch America's propaganda network, GEO TV before I drift off to sleep....
#376 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:51:58 am
tahmed writes "and this is what you wrote in #357:...."
I was talking about #358, Zee's post having no insults, read my post again before lying about it as well...
Quote # 369 Posted by masadi" Lies upon lies, first lie #358 is not my post, second lie #358 has no abuse, and final lie, when you claim you stopped reading my post, you read every word of my posts
I was talking about #358, Zee's post having no insults, read my post again before lying about it as well...
Quote # 369 Posted by masadi" Lies upon lies, first lie #358 is not my post, second lie #358 has no abuse, and final lie, when you claim you stopped reading my post, you read every word of my posts
#375 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:45:45 am
In #372 read "and to mainstream NS and the lawyer's movement, " as
and to mainstream NS and pacify the lawyer's movement,
and to mainstream NS and pacify the lawyer's movement,
#374 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:43:09 am
correction in #373 read "or were cheerleading for the US 2003 invastion of Iran in your dimwit "open letter" published on chowk.." as
or were cheerleading for the US 2003 invasion of Iraq in your dimwit "open letter" published on chowk
or were cheerleading for the US 2003 invasion of Iraq in your dimwit "open letter" published on chowk
#373 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:40:36 am
tahmed writes "So - it you who is the liar,"
Once exposed, this ignoramus will resort to turning his opponents proven claims on their head without any proof. Where is my lie fool. You lied about not reading my post, and you proved it in this one! You stand thoroughly and totally discredited on this site, people know that you push the US pov blindly even when it is harmful to the people of Pakistan, just you wait fool, they will take care of your type, that day is coming and coming up fast and your dream of a broken up Pakistan with US armies swarming will never come to be regardless of the nostaligic way in which you celebrate British colonization of India or were cheerleading for the US 2003 invastion of Iran in your dimwit "open letter" published on chowk, there for all to see. You are the liar, you are the hypocrite and you are an immoral, spineless, sorry excuse for a human being with the morals of a dirty slug
Once exposed, this ignoramus will resort to turning his opponents proven claims on their head without any proof. Where is my lie fool. You lied about not reading my post, and you proved it in this one! You stand thoroughly and totally discredited on this site, people know that you push the US pov blindly even when it is harmful to the people of Pakistan, just you wait fool, they will take care of your type, that day is coming and coming up fast and your dream of a broken up Pakistan with US armies swarming will never come to be regardless of the nostaligic way in which you celebrate British colonization of India or were cheerleading for the US 2003 invastion of Iran in your dimwit "open letter" published on chowk, there for all to see. You are the liar, you are the hypocrite and you are an immoral, spineless, sorry excuse for a human being with the morals of a dirty slug
#372 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:34:25 am
Tahmed writes "After all, if a man is willing to sacrifice his ex-boss whom he "loyally" served to save his own skin, no matter how treacherous to the nation the ex-boss proved to be, that speaks volumes of his own sincerity..."
Zee you can recognize tahmed's mentality in this quote from his post. This backstabber will gladly advocate the butchering of the people of Pakistan by the US just because he got some $$ from his "boss" the US. Ex=generals when they get out of the constraits of the institution usually begin to see things differently and then make noise but they are powerless to cause anything once the "wardi" is off. The military at present is playing the US manipulation game of scape-goating Musharraf to prevent the restoration of the judges and to mainstream NS and the lawyer's movement, therefore you see these kinds of people popping up with new revealtions and the post event/post postion (retired) "whistle blowing" occurs on America's own propaganda, heavily funded, VOA broadcasting, GEO....these things however, which includes allowing NS to contest, are beyond the comprehension of those that will let such manipulations take root and forget the real issue- that of the judges, and this is done by a-holes like tahmed deliberately to mask US BS in our affairs...
Zee you can recognize tahmed's mentality in this quote from his post. This backstabber will gladly advocate the butchering of the people of Pakistan by the US just because he got some $$ from his "boss" the US. Ex=generals when they get out of the constraits of the institution usually begin to see things differently and then make noise but they are powerless to cause anything once the "wardi" is off. The military at present is playing the US manipulation game of scape-goating Musharraf to prevent the restoration of the judges and to mainstream NS and the lawyer's movement, therefore you see these kinds of people popping up with new revealtions and the post event/post postion (retired) "whistle blowing" occurs on America's own propaganda, heavily funded, VOA broadcasting, GEO....these things however, which includes allowing NS to contest, are beyond the comprehension of those that will let such manipulations take root and forget the real issue- that of the judges, and this is done by a-holes like tahmed deliberately to mask US BS in our affairs...
#371 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 10:30:19 am
#369 so it was #357 and not #358. dont try to be clever by picking on obvious typos.
and this is what you wrote in #357: "When he goes and the judiciary is not restored and made independant fools like you will say "the people did it", but ignoramus, the people want the judiciary.." these are the exact words i quoted.
So - it you who is the liar, not me. and i didnt bother to read what you wrote in #368 since i am not interested in wasting my precious chowk time with man who is incapable of a civilized discussion.
and this is what you wrote in #357: "When he goes and the judiciary is not restored and made independant fools like you will say "the people did it", but ignoramus, the people want the judiciary.." these are the exact words i quoted.
So - it you who is the liar, not me. and i didnt bother to read what you wrote in #368 since i am not interested in wasting my precious chowk time with man who is incapable of a civilized discussion.
#370 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 10:24:59 am
zeemax #358 i tried to re-check the geo interview on the 70th minute (on the queencutpaste board on unplugged) and couldnt fast forward and have to do something now.
in any case, from what i recall watching yesterday, the mere fact that he mentions that infantry would have been better than hi tech drones (that destroyed - or made "shaheed" as he put it) indicates that at least for bajaur he thought sending in the infantry would have been more effective and without innocent people getting hurt and the madrassah destroyed.
your basic point that kiani is not calling for military action in fata and is supporting peace moves is valid of course.
But - while kiani may be useful in lending badly needed support to the lawyers movement (if only to save his own skin from an angry public while sacrificing his ex-boss), i would not consider any advice or views he takes as being based on the longer term interests of the nation rather than on his own short term interests. After all, if a man is willing to sacrifice his ex-boss whom he "loyally" served to save his own skin, no matter how treacherous to the nation the ex-boss proved to be, that speaks volumes of his own sincerity. If he had put his career on the line, like the Chief Justice and the brave judges and journalists did, that would be another matter. But he did not. And so his support is welcome, his opinions should be considered in light of his own past.
in any case, from what i recall watching yesterday, the mere fact that he mentions that infantry would have been better than hi tech drones (that destroyed - or made "shaheed" as he put it) indicates that at least for bajaur he thought sending in the infantry would have been more effective and without innocent people getting hurt and the madrassah destroyed.
your basic point that kiani is not calling for military action in fata and is supporting peace moves is valid of course.
But - while kiani may be useful in lending badly needed support to the lawyers movement (if only to save his own skin from an angry public while sacrificing his ex-boss), i would not consider any advice or views he takes as being based on the longer term interests of the nation rather than on his own short term interests. After all, if a man is willing to sacrifice his ex-boss whom he "loyally" served to save his own skin, no matter how treacherous to the nation the ex-boss proved to be, that speaks volumes of his own sincerity. If he had put his career on the line, like the Chief Justice and the brave judges and journalists did, that would be another matter. But he did not. And so his support is welcome, his opinions should be considered in light of his own past.
#369 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:21:01 am
tahmed writes "#358 more abuse i see. i didnt bother to read the rest of your post after you started abusing."
Lies upon lies, first lie #358 is not my post, second lie #358 has no abuse, and final lie, when you claim you stopped reading my post, you read every word of my posts quite deligently, were stumped by the arguments and then tried to save face by your so called anti-insult sensibilities when you have used all insults in the book for me and the greatest insult against the people of this country as a whole by advocating they submit (become slaves) to US desires which you push day and night on this site... Your kind will be aptly dealt with by the people and made examples of, just you wait fool
Lies upon lies, first lie #358 is not my post, second lie #358 has no abuse, and final lie, when you claim you stopped reading my post, you read every word of my posts quite deligently, were stumped by the arguments and then tried to save face by your so called anti-insult sensibilities when you have used all insults in the book for me and the greatest insult against the people of this country as a whole by advocating they submit (become slaves) to US desires which you push day and night on this site... Your kind will be aptly dealt with by the people and made examples of, just you wait fool
#368 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 10:13:53 am
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#367 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 10:08:30 am
#357 masadi: i was going to respond to your post, but saw that you could not resist adding the standard insults ("ignoramus" "fool") in the end. i am prepared to discuss any issue, but not prepared to exchange abuse and insults.
so good effort at trying to write an abuse-free post, but you are not there yet.
#358 more abuse i see. i didnt bother to read the rest of your post after you started abusing.
Cheers. :-)
so good effort at trying to write an abuse-free post, but you are not there yet.
#358 more abuse i see. i didnt bother to read the rest of your post after you started abusing.
Cheers. :-)
#366 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:53:43 am
#365, good one masadi (pats self on back) you made my day!
#365 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:52:59 am
arjun writes "the marines will be glad to dispatch them to heaven..."
You mean the ones that cry like pregnant women giving birth when grazed by a bullet and then go trigger happy on women and children when they are unable to fight their actual opponent? The denizens of hell can never lead someone into heaven....fool
You mean the ones that cry like pregnant women giving birth when grazed by a bullet and then go trigger happy on women and children when they are unable to fight their actual opponent? The denizens of hell can never lead someone into heaven....fool
#364 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:49:36 am
arjun writes "tell you what..if your side, the jihadis, are willing to wear a uniform and face the american forces in a conventional battle, the marines will be glad to dispatch them to heaven.."
Idiot, the jihadis are not "our side", they were the US side until very recently and are still playing to its tunes. The barbarians at our gate, the US, have never played by any rules in any war, not WW2, not Vietnam, and certainly not Iraq, so their crying "rules" merely tells me that it is the "cry" of a spolied brat who wants not only his own candy but everthing in the shop, as if it were his right...
Idiot, the jihadis are not "our side", they were the US side until very recently and are still playing to its tunes. The barbarians at our gate, the US, have never played by any rules in any war, not WW2, not Vietnam, and certainly not Iraq, so their crying "rules" merely tells me that it is the "cry" of a spolied brat who wants not only his own candy but everthing in the shop, as if it were his right...
#363 Posted by _arjun4 on June 3, 2008 9:42:42 am
#360 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:32:39 am
Further the barbarians that are knocking at our gate (the Americans) prefer to fight through the air, the "feet on the ground"
tell you what..if your side, the jihadis, are willing to wear a uniform and face the american forces in a conventional battle, the marines will be glad to dispatch them to heaven..
your jihadis want to play the unconventional game and then you whine when the other side doesn't play by your rules?
this is no different from mushy whining about the indians using their air force during kargil..yeah..we would have won but they used their air force...
Further the barbarians that are knocking at our gate (the Americans) prefer to fight through the air, the "feet on the ground"
tell you what..if your side, the jihadis, are willing to wear a uniform and face the american forces in a conventional battle, the marines will be glad to dispatch them to heaven..
your jihadis want to play the unconventional game and then you whine when the other side doesn't play by your rules?
this is no different from mushy whining about the indians using their air force during kargil..yeah..we would have won but they used their air force...
#362 Posted by _arjun4 on June 3, 2008 9:39:26 am
......you are beginning to sound more and more like romair mian ....
speaking of captain clueless...he told us, in 2002, he was supporting mushy even when it was uncool to do so...
where's he at anyway?
#360 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:32:39 am
tahmed writes "you have to ask yourself why mush refused to permit US troops in fata while permitting drones (which can take out an odd militant leader here or there, but cannot stamp out the militants altogether)."
Like I said this peon of the West pushes the US line every occassion he gets, now he wants US troops to be on the ground in Pakistan in large numbers, how will that sit with the "people" this spineless hypocrite always talks about, will they like their nation to be overrun by imperialist armies, ones they hate almost as much as they hate mush? If US troops are on the ground in FATA or elsewhere that will not be an end to "militancy" but it will certainly result in an end to Pakistan. Further the barbarians that are knocking at our gate (the Americans) prefer to fight through the air, the "feet on the ground" usually enter for the purpose of cleanup alone. So the "patriotism" of this hypocrite has been revealed for all to see, he invites the US troops to overrun Pakistani territory, using the excuse of militancy, to undo this nation state and then this pos has the audacity to talk about the "struggles" of the people of Pakistan. May God damn his kind of backstabbing hypocrites....
Like I said this peon of the West pushes the US line every occassion he gets, now he wants US troops to be on the ground in Pakistan in large numbers, how will that sit with the "people" this spineless hypocrite always talks about, will they like their nation to be overrun by imperialist armies, ones they hate almost as much as they hate mush? If US troops are on the ground in FATA or elsewhere that will not be an end to "militancy" but it will certainly result in an end to Pakistan. Further the barbarians that are knocking at our gate (the Americans) prefer to fight through the air, the "feet on the ground" usually enter for the purpose of cleanup alone. So the "patriotism" of this hypocrite has been revealed for all to see, he invites the US troops to overrun Pakistani territory, using the excuse of militancy, to undo this nation state and then this pos has the audacity to talk about the "struggles" of the people of Pakistan. May God damn his kind of backstabbing hypocrites....
#359 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:18:05 am
hamid writes "marie biscuits ..."
They are as tasteless as your BS posts, sage (of the sewers)...Try Candi, cinnamon cookies designed to be dipped into chai before consumption....
They are as tasteless as your BS posts, sage (of the sewers)...Try Candi, cinnamon cookies designed to be dipped into chai before consumption....
#358 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 9:14:04 am
#354 Posted by tahmed32
#351 zeemax: he says that (using infantry rather than hi tech drones) in the middle of the interview.
Okay I went back and played that interview again. What he's actually saying is about the Bajaur Madrassa bombing, and that troops could have gone in and surrounded it if there were any lawless elements inside. It is at about 70th minute. He's saying if they're talking to them now, why didn't they talk to them then?
He opposes the use of force in that segment, not support it as you have understood.
#351 zeemax: he says that (using infantry rather than hi tech drones) in the middle of the interview.
Okay I went back and played that interview again. What he's actually saying is about the Bajaur Madrassa bombing, and that troops could have gone in and surrounded it if there were any lawless elements inside. It is at about 70th minute. He's saying if they're talking to them now, why didn't they talk to them then?
He opposes the use of force in that segment, not support it as you have understood.
#357 Posted by masadi on June 3, 2008 9:11:52 am
Tahmed writes "This thing about "the Americans did that" (separate mush from his wardi) is Zardari's line too. And it is wrong. And it is not just wrong, it is also insulting to the Pakistani people since it belittles the role of the thousands of brave Pakistanis who came out on the streets day after day in 2007 - facing beatings by the police, facing bullets from mqm."
You are simply trying to push the american line that tries to show that what it achieves is what the people of Pakistan want. The people of Pakistan didn't want the wardi off, they wanted the a-hole to go, with the wardi or without it, they wanted him gone from their lives,"go musharraf go" were the slogans not "remove the wardi", and those struggles did not result in his wardi coming off, the wardi showed its full strength on Nov 3, past those beatings, and what not you mention. Only after the Americans sent Negroponte with the final warning, did the fool decide to save his skin and give up his wardi...Zardari is correct in his assertion about the wardi, not even BB could have achieved it by herself, further his strength in rebuking Musharraf comes directly from the US that now wants to scrap him for good in order to incorporate and mitigate the struggles of the people. When he goes and the judiciary is not restored and made independant fools like you will say "the people did it", but ignoramus, the people want the judiciary restored first and foremost while the Americans are manipulating them to keep their BS going. The Wardi was removed by the Americans with full support of the Pakistan Military, it was either that or they would have de-wardied him in public via a hellfire aimed for his a$$, no two ways about it. He happened to be smarter than Zia in this regard....
You are simply trying to push the american line that tries to show that what it achieves is what the people of Pakistan want. The people of Pakistan didn't want the wardi off, they wanted the a-hole to go, with the wardi or without it, they wanted him gone from their lives,"go musharraf go" were the slogans not "remove the wardi", and those struggles did not result in his wardi coming off, the wardi showed its full strength on Nov 3, past those beatings, and what not you mention. Only after the Americans sent Negroponte with the final warning, did the fool decide to save his skin and give up his wardi...Zardari is correct in his assertion about the wardi, not even BB could have achieved it by herself, further his strength in rebuking Musharraf comes directly from the US that now wants to scrap him for good in order to incorporate and mitigate the struggles of the people. When he goes and the judiciary is not restored and made independant fools like you will say "the people did it", but ignoramus, the people want the judiciary restored first and foremost while the Americans are manipulating them to keep their BS going. The Wardi was removed by the Americans with full support of the Pakistan Military, it was either that or they would have de-wardied him in public via a hellfire aimed for his a$$, no two ways about it. He happened to be smarter than Zia in this regard....
#356 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 8:33:03 am
#355 hamidm: so what have drones accomplished in 8 years, field marshall hosni mobarik ben clausewitz von hamidm?
#355 Posted by hamidm2 on June 3, 2008 8:29:33 am
Re: # 354
tahmed,
......you are beginning to sound more and more like romair mian ....
...... it is absolutely stupid, irresponsible and rather crazy to go after these jihadis with infantry - when you do that you are playing at their game and they are much better at it ...... the way to exterminate this vermin is exactly what the americans are doing with targeted assassinations using drones - it has worked for the israelis and it should work for us .... additionally we should be using the airforce and heavy artillery to drive out these rats from their spider holes ....
..... collateral damage is inevitable, but the colonial concept of collective punishment by destroying entire villages is morally wrong and militarily unproductive .....
..... these jihadi types can be a pain in the keester, but even a third rate regular army like the indian army in occupied kashmir is quite capable of taking care of al-lah's pathetic warriors in filthy shalwars, worn out chappals and us aid blankets .....
tahmed,
......you are beginning to sound more and more like romair mian ....
...... it is absolutely stupid, irresponsible and rather crazy to go after these jihadis with infantry - when you do that you are playing at their game and they are much better at it ...... the way to exterminate this vermin is exactly what the americans are doing with targeted assassinations using drones - it has worked for the israelis and it should work for us .... additionally we should be using the airforce and heavy artillery to drive out these rats from their spider holes ....
..... collateral damage is inevitable, but the colonial concept of collective punishment by destroying entire villages is morally wrong and militarily unproductive .....
..... these jihadi types can be a pain in the keester, but even a third rate regular army like the indian army in occupied kashmir is quite capable of taking care of al-lah's pathetic warriors in filthy shalwars, worn out chappals and us aid blankets .....
#354 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 7:53:29 am
#351 zeemax: he says that (using infantry rather than hi tech drones) in the middle of the interview.
you have to ask yourself why mush refused to permit US troops in fata while permitting drones (which can take out an odd militant leader here or there, but cannot stamp out the militants altogether).
you have to ask yourself why mush refused to permit US troops in fata while permitting drones (which can take out an odd militant leader here or there, but cannot stamp out the militants altogether).
#353 Posted by _arjun4 on June 3, 2008 6:42:17 am
351 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 6:14:51 am
Re US fighting militants via use of drones alone, these will result in the same retaliation as last year - 50 suicide bombings on Pakistani soft targets in less than six months. The Government will have to decide whether it can afford it.
seeing as how the paki military is completely incapable of stopping the drone attacks, this sounds like a win-win situation..
packwhacker drones whack the jihadis
jihadis whack pakis
lather rinse repeat...
Re US fighting militants via use of drones alone, these will result in the same retaliation as last year - 50 suicide bombings on Pakistani soft targets in less than six months. The Government will have to decide whether it can afford it.
seeing as how the paki military is completely incapable of stopping the drone attacks, this sounds like a win-win situation..
packwhacker drones whack the jihadis
jihadis whack pakis
lather rinse repeat...
#352 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 6:18:45 am
#350 Posted by tahmed32,
Thus: if mush had accepted the CJ's position that he should either shed his uniform or run for president, even I may very well have voted for him as being the least disgusting of the lot.
Otherwise agreed except the above. I think it's a good time to revisit Bilal Musharraf's "He had no Choice" and the 1200 interacts on it :)
Thus: if mush had accepted the CJ's position that he should either shed his uniform or run for president, even I may very well have voted for him as being the least disgusting of the lot.
Otherwise agreed except the above. I think it's a good time to revisit Bilal Musharraf's "He had no Choice" and the 1200 interacts on it :)
#351 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 6:14:51 am
#349 Posted by tahmed32,
... will the current government take his advice? Right now it seems to be going the other way, leaving it for the US to fight the militants with its hands tied behind its back (i.e., no "boots on the ground", thus forcing the US to stick to use of drones alone.
I don't remember him saying this about FATA. But nevertheless, regardless of your or mine position on this, if he said that Pakistan must have boots on the ground in FATA, they actually did have them for two years and were defeated. They still have infantry in FATA but recently the decision was made to pull them out from near population centers, which is why Baitullah Mehsud was able to conduct his press-conference.
Re US fighting militants via use of drones alone, these will result in the same retaliation as last year - 50 suicide bombings on Pakistani soft targets in less than six months. The Government will have to decide whether it can afford it.
It is a tricky situation, but I really think Pakistan should allow US to put boots on the ground (if they want) in FATA. I'm sure Mehsuds will have no objection. The mostly mis-guided drone attacks neither help NATO nor Pakistan.
... will the current government take his advice? Right now it seems to be going the other way, leaving it for the US to fight the militants with its hands tied behind its back (i.e., no "boots on the ground", thus forcing the US to stick to use of drones alone.
I don't remember him saying this about FATA. But nevertheless, regardless of your or mine position on this, if he said that Pakistan must have boots on the ground in FATA, they actually did have them for two years and were defeated. They still have infantry in FATA but recently the decision was made to pull them out from near population centers, which is why Baitullah Mehsud was able to conduct his press-conference.
Re US fighting militants via use of drones alone, these will result in the same retaliation as last year - 50 suicide bombings on Pakistani soft targets in less than six months. The Government will have to decide whether it can afford it.
It is a tricky situation, but I really think Pakistan should allow US to put boots on the ground (if they want) in FATA. I'm sure Mehsuds will have no objection. The mostly mis-guided drone attacks neither help NATO nor Pakistan.
#350 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 5:58:28 am
#348 zeemax: mush's popularity no doubt nose-dived after the lal masjid attack (and in my case, even more the lal masjid attack when i realized how he was clearly using lal masjid maulvis as unwitting pawns to intimidate the people of islamabad). Thus: if mush had accepted the CJ's position that he should either shed his uniform or run for president, even i may very well have voted for him as being the least disgusting of the lot.
However, the CJ has no doubt inspired thousands of Pakistanis and we do have options. Nawaz Sharif has had a second chance to redeem himself in the public's eye - and he has done that magnificently to date.
However, the CJ has no doubt inspired thousands of Pakistanis and we do have options. Nawaz Sharif has had a second chance to redeem himself in the public's eye - and he has done that magnificently to date.
#349 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 5:50:24 am
zeemax #346 I agree that, despite his own obvious involvement over the past 8 years in mush's illegal rule, kiani does provide some useful insights - one thing he confirms is that it was counterproductive to use high tech weapons in fata when (speaking as an infantry officer himself) infantry would do the job much better (i.e. catch the militants while avoiding damage to buildings and any other individuals in the vicinity).
But then the question is - will the current government take his advice? Right now it seems to be going the other way, leaving it for the US to fight the militants with its hands tied behind its back (i.e., no "boots on the ground", thus forcing the US to stick to use of drones alone). You and I are of course not on the same page on these militants, but in light of Kiani's remarks you may wish to see where I am coming from on this.
But then the question is - will the current government take his advice? Right now it seems to be going the other way, leaving it for the US to fight the militants with its hands tied behind its back (i.e., no "boots on the ground", thus forcing the US to stick to use of drones alone). You and I are of course not on the same page on these militants, but in light of Kiani's remarks you may wish to see where I am coming from on this.
#348 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 5:47:24 am
#347 Posted by tahmed32
So - one can only welcome the decision by the ex-servicemen to get off their behinds ..
That's well said. Rest of your post is very reasonable too.
Besides, one reason for these senior ex-servicemen's (including Kiyani and many others) acquiescence during service would be (1) musharraf's 12 October 97 coup was mostly welcomed and then validated in 2002 and; (2) he was in fact quite popular before 9 March 2007. I think the crunch came on 3rd Nov 2007 when he crossed all remotely acceptable limits by a long shot.
So - one can only welcome the decision by the ex-servicemen to get off their behinds ..
That's well said. Rest of your post is very reasonable too.
Besides, one reason for these senior ex-servicemen's (including Kiyani and many others) acquiescence during service would be (1) musharraf's 12 October 97 coup was mostly welcomed and then validated in 2002 and; (2) he was in fact quite popular before 9 March 2007. I think the crunch came on 3rd Nov 2007 when he crossed all remotely acceptable limits by a long shot.
#347 Posted by tahmed32 on June 3, 2008 5:31:01 am
zeemax #328 I saw the interview and he does confirm some things and provide some additional insights.
Thus - he is right in calling for a trial of musharraf so future "ataturks" think twice before overthrowing the government. He says he had nothing to do with the coup, but as one of the Corp Commanders with whose help mush maintained his illegal rule of the country, he must be aware that such a process would bring into question his own involvement too. As would other senior retired officers. So, wrt to motivations, it seems it is a mixture of
1. genuine realization of the damage done to the nation by overthrowing the Pakistan Constitution (a realization that is clearer now that the hubris of power is over after retirement);
2. fear of the widespread anger that mush's lawless actions have generated in the nation;
Regardless of the motives, given that democratic forces in Pakistan need all the help they can get (given the forces arrayed before them, with mqm ghoonda and zardari wadera in sindh linking up with ANP whose leader whose vision seems to end with renaming the province plus mush's own continued machinations plus the attacks on civil society by islamists who live in their own cartoon world).
So - one can only welcome the decision by the ex-servicemen to get off their behinds and lend much needed help to the Chief Justice and the lawyers in their struggle to save Pakistan by putting back in place the supremacy of the law and the Pakistan Constitution that was overthrown by this rogue general.
Thus - he is right in calling for a trial of musharraf so future "ataturks" think twice before overthrowing the government. He says he had nothing to do with the coup, but as one of the Corp Commanders with whose help mush maintained his illegal rule of the country, he must be aware that such a process would bring into question his own involvement too. As would other senior retired officers. So, wrt to motivations, it seems it is a mixture of
1. genuine realization of the damage done to the nation by overthrowing the Pakistan Constitution (a realization that is clearer now that the hubris of power is over after retirement);
2. fear of the widespread anger that mush's lawless actions have generated in the nation;
Regardless of the motives, given that democratic forces in Pakistan need all the help they can get (given the forces arrayed before them, with mqm ghoonda and zardari wadera in sindh linking up with ANP whose leader whose vision seems to end with renaming the province plus mush's own continued machinations plus the attacks on civil society by islamists who live in their own cartoon world).
So - one can only welcome the decision by the ex-servicemen to get off their behinds and lend much needed help to the Chief Justice and the lawyers in their struggle to save Pakistan by putting back in place the supremacy of the law and the Pakistan Constitution that was overthrown by this rogue general.
#346 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 5:25:09 am
#343 Posted by SR,
You could have a point re the musharraf mole part, given the circumstantial evidence of Ziauddin Butt being Nawaz's man and musharraf would have been kept informed by someone else in ISI to have turned the tables so fast. Though your version of PSC episode doesn't sound plausible. If the Board members had such serious objections, why fire your own appointee, the Chairman, over some DIG promotions?
Anyway, I said in an earlier post that any accusations by Kiyani should be taken on their own merit, and not trivialized on ad-hominem grounds alone.
Purely on merit, his accusations are actually what are well-known secrets. Who doesn't know Kargil was an ill-conceived misadventure? Or that the hijacked aircraft blackbox nor cockpit voice recorder was ever produced in court, nor a single passenger's evidence recorded? Or that white phosphorous was used on Jamia Hafsa?
He actually said nothing new. Just confirmed facts from firsthand information, whatever his own motives may have been for doing that - noble or ignoble.
You could have a point re the musharraf mole part, given the circumstantial evidence of Ziauddin Butt being Nawaz's man and musharraf would have been kept informed by someone else in ISI to have turned the tables so fast. Though your version of PSC episode doesn't sound plausible. If the Board members had such serious objections, why fire your own appointee, the Chairman, over some DIG promotions?
Anyway, I said in an earlier post that any accusations by Kiyani should be taken on their own merit, and not trivialized on ad-hominem grounds alone.
Purely on merit, his accusations are actually what are well-known secrets. Who doesn't know Kargil was an ill-conceived misadventure? Or that the hijacked aircraft blackbox nor cockpit voice recorder was ever produced in court, nor a single passenger's evidence recorded? Or that white phosphorous was used on Jamia Hafsa?
He actually said nothing new. Just confirmed facts from firsthand information, whatever his own motives may have been for doing that - noble or ignoble.
#345 Posted by _arjun4 on June 3, 2008 5:23:08 am
another thing: he says mushy folded like a cheap walmart deck chair when powell called..just dropped his pants and bent over...the general dude thinks pakiland should have negotiated..
#344 Posted by _arjun4 on June 3, 2008 5:21:19 am
pakis: did you watch kiani's interview...I did...ripped the audio and heard it on my ipod.
a few salient points..
pakis got their clock cleaned in kargil...they were shocked!! shocked!! that the indians used the AF and bofors..and they went begging to america because india was getting ready to escalate, bomb or no bomb...
so the paki bomb didn't stop india from taking back what it considered it's own...you know what this means pakis...no kashmir for you now..ever..
oh...and he confirmed the fact that bodies of paki soldiers were left behind in kargil..probably rotting away slowly even as I type..
phosphorus grenades were used against the ninja chix...so, yes...they were "shaked and baked" chix by the time they met allah...
a few salient points..
pakis got their clock cleaned in kargil...they were shocked!! shocked!! that the indians used the AF and bofors..and they went begging to america because india was getting ready to escalate, bomb or no bomb...
so the paki bomb didn't stop india from taking back what it considered it's own...you know what this means pakis...no kashmir for you now..ever..
oh...and he confirmed the fact that bodies of paki soldiers were left behind in kargil..probably rotting away slowly even as I type..
phosphorus grenades were used against the ninja chix...so, yes...they were "shaked and baked" chix by the time they met allah...
#343 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 4:40:24 am
Re: # 335 zeemax ["...he gave regular briefings to musharraf on Kargil, but being in ISI he obviously was not part of the actual planning or execution of the military operation...]
You are correct that he was not a part of the Kargil planning... but his section of the ISI was involved with the 'Kashmiri jihad' ... But let's forget Kargil. That is not Musharraf's only crime. Let's talk about 12th October, 1999.
As you are aware, the ISI (theoritically) does not come under the army chief. ISI senior officers are mostly from the army (some from Air Forece & Navy too), but they are on a "loan" to the ISI, just like if they were posted in some foreign embassy they would be on loan to the foreign ministry. Lt. General Zia-ud-Din was the Director General of the ISI and he was a Nawaz Sharif loyalist. He is the one Nawaz wanted to make COAS after firing Musharraf. But when the time came Musharraf was ready and the tables were turned on Zia-ud-Din and Nawaz Sharif. Actually Musharraf had a mole in the ISI. As Major General and one of the five division heads of ISI Gulzar Kiani was only supposed to report to his boss Zia-ud-Din, not to the COAS. But in fact he was Musharraf's mole. That is why he was rewarded with a promotion and given the Rawalpindi corps. Later he was given charimanship of PSC. All rewards for being a Mush toady.
His break with Mush came over the promotion of police DIGs when he was unable to convince the PSC board members and Musharraf, as punishment, changed the rules thus reducing the PSC board members' term in office from 5 years to three years.
I am not impressed with someone of his history who changes his religion at the last minute. This is not called principle or character. This is called convenience and expediency.
...SR
You are correct that he was not a part of the Kargil planning... but his section of the ISI was involved with the 'Kashmiri jihad' ... But let's forget Kargil. That is not Musharraf's only crime. Let's talk about 12th October, 1999.
As you are aware, the ISI (theoritically) does not come under the army chief. ISI senior officers are mostly from the army (some from Air Forece & Navy too), but they are on a "loan" to the ISI, just like if they were posted in some foreign embassy they would be on loan to the foreign ministry. Lt. General Zia-ud-Din was the Director General of the ISI and he was a Nawaz Sharif loyalist. He is the one Nawaz wanted to make COAS after firing Musharraf. But when the time came Musharraf was ready and the tables were turned on Zia-ud-Din and Nawaz Sharif. Actually Musharraf had a mole in the ISI. As Major General and one of the five division heads of ISI Gulzar Kiani was only supposed to report to his boss Zia-ud-Din, not to the COAS. But in fact he was Musharraf's mole. That is why he was rewarded with a promotion and given the Rawalpindi corps. Later he was given charimanship of PSC. All rewards for being a Mush toady.
His break with Mush came over the promotion of police DIGs when he was unable to convince the PSC board members and Musharraf, as punishment, changed the rules thus reducing the PSC board members' term in office from 5 years to three years.
I am not impressed with someone of his history who changes his religion at the last minute. This is not called principle or character. This is called convenience and expediency.
...SR
#342 Posted by rf786 on June 3, 2008 3:26:36 am
With reference to the upright General (Retd) Kiyani
Like any other Pak army Gneral, Kiyani too was and continues to be a beneficiary of being allocated lands way beyond the means of any other honest profession. Has the esteemed Retired General objected to these extravagently lavish land distributions? NO and why? because its suits them fine, now that they see their game plan ending they are dumping their chief, easy scapegoat.
Like any other Pak army Gneral, Kiyani too was and continues to be a beneficiary of being allocated lands way beyond the means of any other honest profession. Has the esteemed Retired General objected to these extravagently lavish land distributions? NO and why? because its suits them fine, now that they see their game plan ending they are dumping their chief, easy scapegoat.
#341 Posted by nkg on June 3, 2008 2:27:54 am
Re: # 250
Zeemax...
MF is habitual offender and is slapped by court several times. He is now a fugitive like Dawood Ibrahim. Anyhow, after returning, he will face couple of more charges...
What is the relation with M F Hussein to Danish cartoons? These danish cartoons are not offensive at all.
Hamid...
Yes, Pakistan has some good nuicense creation value. India knows that very well. During cold war, USA used Pakistan as its dog...and now China. How many days Pakistan will play the role of pet dog for other countries? I hope, as a nation, you need some positive and independent agenda as well....
From Kargil war, Pakistan has gained nothing apart from creating trouble for India and loosing thousands of its regulars. And all this on behalf of China. Indian nuke test was meant for China. So, when Pakistan tested ( so called) nuke device, India was not anxious. Vajpayee called NS and tamed him. But that was not liked by chinese bosses and Pak army worked as chinku dog and got mauled to some extent...
Zeemax...
MF is habitual offender and is slapped by court several times. He is now a fugitive like Dawood Ibrahim. Anyhow, after returning, he will face couple of more charges...
What is the relation with M F Hussein to Danish cartoons? These danish cartoons are not offensive at all.
Hamid...
Yes, Pakistan has some good nuicense creation value. India knows that very well. During cold war, USA used Pakistan as its dog...and now China. How many days Pakistan will play the role of pet dog for other countries? I hope, as a nation, you need some positive and independent agenda as well....
From Kargil war, Pakistan has gained nothing apart from creating trouble for India and loosing thousands of its regulars. And all this on behalf of China. Indian nuke test was meant for China. So, when Pakistan tested ( so called) nuke device, India was not anxious. Vajpayee called NS and tamed him. But that was not liked by chinese bosses and Pak army worked as chinku dog and got mauled to some extent...
#340 Posted by Dash_Dot on June 3, 2008 2:02:57 am
What was the general trying to do
(a) get a job as an analyst
(b) message to Musharuff
(c) save the nation
(d) a message to the Yanks
(e) kick Musharuff in the balls
His boss at the Agency when he was N tried to d the same but Hamid Gul did not have much joy. Will this guy have any joy?
(a) get a job as an analyst
(b) message to Musharuff
(c) save the nation
(d) a message to the Yanks
(e) kick Musharuff in the balls
His boss at the Agency when he was N tried to d the same but Hamid Gul did not have much joy. Will this guy have any joy?
#339 Posted by nkg on June 3, 2008 1:54:47 am
Re: # 307
Urs...
Ha Ha ha...
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/02/06/ed-cartoon-big.jpg
ht tp://homepage.mac.com/dmhart/iblog/C437552202/E1888763686/Media/minareterna-kopi erasmall.gif
Arjun, help me...
Urs...
Ha Ha ha...
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/02/06/ed-cartoon-big.jpg
ht tp://homepage.mac.com/dmhart/iblog/C437552202/E1888763686/Media/minareterna-kopi erasmall.gif
Arjun, help me...
#338 Posted by Dash_Dot on June 3, 2008 1:45:06 am
Re: # 335 he was N at the ISI? (atleast that is what he said in the interview)
#337 Posted by Dash_Dot on June 3, 2008 1:45:06 am
Re: # 335 he was N at the ISI? (atleast that is what he said in the interview)
#336 Posted by Dash_Dot on June 3, 2008 1:45:06 am
Re: # 335 he was N at the ISI? (atleast that is what he said in the interview)
#335 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 12:52:35 am
#332 Posted by SR,
As one of the five ISI directors he was obviously 'in the picture' and could have blown the whistle if he was himself morally upright.
He stated that he gave regular briefings to musharraf on Kargil, but being in ISI he obviously was not part of the actual planning or execution of the military operation. The same team of Corps Commanders which brought musharraf to power were the Kargil team.
And blown the whistle on what? The faulty planning? That would only have been his own view at the time as against his colleagues.
Re the rest of your post, read #331.
As one of the five ISI directors he was obviously 'in the picture' and could have blown the whistle if he was himself morally upright.
He stated that he gave regular briefings to musharraf on Kargil, but being in ISI he obviously was not part of the actual planning or execution of the military operation. The same team of Corps Commanders which brought musharraf to power were the Kargil team.
And blown the whistle on what? The faulty planning? That would only have been his own view at the time as against his colleagues.
Re the rest of your post, read #331.
#334 Posted by majumdar on June 3, 2008 12:48:09 am
Zee sahib,
(Certainly Army-men are under oath and can't go public during service. )
If he has only recently retired from service, that would seem a very reasonable explanation.
Regards
(Certainly Army-men are under oath and can't go public during service. )
If he has only recently retired from service, that would seem a very reasonable explanation.
Regards
#333 Posted by zeemax on June 3, 2008 12:42:27 am
#331 Posted by majumdar
But why now? After all these years? The timing is a bit suspicious.
Why not? Didn't the US ex-Generals oppose Bush's Iraq policy?
Anyway, Kiyani is doing it in public now because he founded and represents the ex-Servicemen Assoc. which supports the Lawyer's movement and is calling for mussharraf's impeachment. Besides, he maintains he opposed musharraf in Corps Commanders meetings as well. Certainly Army-men are under oath and can't go public during service. That would be betraying the army itself. They're court-martialed if they do that.
But why now? After all these years? The timing is a bit suspicious.
Why not? Didn't the US ex-Generals oppose Bush's Iraq policy?
Anyway, Kiyani is doing it in public now because he founded and represents the ex-Servicemen Assoc. which supports the Lawyer's movement and is calling for mussharraf's impeachment. Besides, he maintains he opposed musharraf in Corps Commanders meetings as well. Certainly Army-men are under oath and can't go public during service. That would be betraying the army itself. They're court-martialed if they do that.
#332 Posted by SR on June 3, 2008 12:16:18 am
Re: # 328 zeemax ["... was a Major General in ISI on 12 October 1999 and the Lt. General commanding the 10 Corps in Rawalpindi - which includes the infamous 111 Brigade - from November 1999 onwards till retirement, and was then appointed Chairman Federal Public Services Commission..."]
In other words the man was very much a part and parcel of the evil pyramid of which Munharraf was only the apex. As oneof the five ISI directors he was obviously 'in the picture' and could have blown the whistle if he was himself morally upright. But, NO. Instead he todied up to Mushy Boy and got himself the most sensitive job after COAS, i.e., corps commander Rawalpindi. This post is only given to those whose loyalty is beyond question. Not only that, after retirement he got another very high profile. Such jobs are only given to those who deserve 'rewards for loyalty' to the dictator. No moral compunction for this man so far.
Then fast forward to 2008 and this Jhonny-come-lately has found religion... How convenient. The man is evidently a self-serving opportunist who sees the writing on the wall and, like a rat, he abandons the ship tocurry favor with the rising stars among the politicos.
The man is as immoral as his former boss, and equally shameless. Nothing he says can be trusted at face value.
...SR
In other words the man was very much a part and parcel of the evil pyramid of which Munharraf was only the apex. As oneof the five ISI directors he was obviously 'in the picture' and could have blown the whistle if he was himself morally upright. But, NO. Instead he todied up to Mushy Boy and got himself the most sensitive job after COAS, i.e., corps commander Rawalpindi. This post is only given to those whose loyalty is beyond question. Not only that, after retirement he got another very high profile. Such jobs are only given to those who deserve 'rewards for loyalty' to the dictator. No moral compunction for this man so far.
Then fast forward to 2008 and this Jhonny-come-lately has found religion... How convenient. The man is evidently a self-serving opportunist who sees the writing on the wall and, like a rat, he abandons the ship tocurry favor with the rising stars among the politicos.
The man is as immoral as his former boss, and equally shameless. Nothing he says can be trusted at face value.
...SR
#331 Posted by majumdar on June 3, 2008 12:03:33 am
Zee sahib,
Re: 328
He may be correct on all these points. But why now? After all these years? The timing is a bit suspicious.
Regards
Re: 328
He may be correct on all these points. But why now? After all these years? The timing is a bit suspicious.
Regards
#330 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 11:52:29 pm
#294 Posted by HP
That was a regular flight so there must be some passengers.
Yeah but where are those 'some' passengers? Let me know when you find one.
That was a regular flight so there must be some passengers.
Yeah but where are those 'some' passengers? Let me know when you find one.
#329 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 11:50:48 pm
#290 Posted by tahmed32
... any thoughts on the PPP constitutional amendment?
Nothing but another time gaining tactic. There are 70 amendments proposed, including endorsement of some of the Nov 3 actions, which will take months to just decipher and discuss. Besides, PML-N has already rejected the first draft.
... any thoughts on the PPP constitutional amendment?
Nothing but another time gaining tactic. There are 70 amendments proposed, including endorsement of some of the Nov 3 actions, which will take months to just decipher and discuss. Besides, PML-N has already rejected the first draft.
#328 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 11:47:14 pm
#289 Posted by tahmed32 re #284 zeemax:
I think the general is just making up stories.
Firstly, Lt. Gen Kiyani is the head of the 250,000 strong ex-Servicemen Association which includes all three services plus their ex-Chiefs, and he was talking not only on his personal behalf but also in that responsible capacity. Secondly, his statements should be taken on their merit instead of ascribing any personal motives automatically. He has dared musharraf to defend himself in three enquiries i.e. Kargil, 12 October Coup, and Lal Masjid - while giving his own versions of all three.
His sources are none other than his own. He was a Major General in ISI on 12 October 1999 and the Lt. General commanding the 10 Corps in Rawalpindi - which includes the infamous 111 Brigade - from November 1999 onwards till retirement, and was then appointed Chairman Federal Public Services Commission.
In any case, this should be easy to check - from the crew and others e.g.
Indeed. But where are the crew or the passengers? Have you heard of any passenger's account in any publication?
As for the Captain (who was an acquaintance of mine being a fellow aeromodeling enthusiast during my PIA years) was hastily retired and the family moved to USA.
I think the general is just making up stories.
Firstly, Lt. Gen Kiyani is the head of the 250,000 strong ex-Servicemen Association which includes all three services plus their ex-Chiefs, and he was talking not only on his personal behalf but also in that responsible capacity. Secondly, his statements should be taken on their merit instead of ascribing any personal motives automatically. He has dared musharraf to defend himself in three enquiries i.e. Kargil, 12 October Coup, and Lal Masjid - while giving his own versions of all three.
His sources are none other than his own. He was a Major General in ISI on 12 October 1999 and the Lt. General commanding the 10 Corps in Rawalpindi - which includes the infamous 111 Brigade - from November 1999 onwards till retirement, and was then appointed Chairman Federal Public Services Commission.
In any case, this should be easy to check - from the crew and others e.g.
Indeed. But where are the crew or the passengers? Have you heard of any passenger's account in any publication?
As for the Captain (who was an acquaintance of mine being a fellow aeromodeling enthusiast during my PIA years) was hastily retired and the family moved to USA.
#327 Posted by Sanatani on June 2, 2008 11:12:07 pm
Re: # 221
Yeh fair and lovely ka kamal hai tha ya fair and handsome ka.
Sanatani
Yeh fair and lovely ka kamal hai tha ya fair and handsome ka.
Sanatani
#326 Posted by Sanatani on June 2, 2008 10:10:14 pm
Re: # 155
General Malik owns 3 Properties. 316 sq yard house in hs name Army Welfare Housing Organisation in Noida suburb of Delhi.
Plus 1 flat in his wifes name AWHO Medical Field Marshal Dr Ranjana Malik Sahiba was from Army medical corp.
He also owns 1/3 rd or half share in an ancestral property in Delhi.
Owns 2 cars and gets a pension of 33,000 Rs a month. Like all prudent army offciers would have a substantial cash balance at least in excess of around 30 lakhs for his PF gratuity and savings.
Sanatani
General Malik owns 3 Properties. 316 sq yard house in hs name Army Welfare Housing Organisation in Noida suburb of Delhi.
Plus 1 flat in his wifes name AWHO Medical Field Marshal Dr Ranjana Malik Sahiba was from Army medical corp.
He also owns 1/3 rd or half share in an ancestral property in Delhi.
Owns 2 cars and gets a pension of 33,000 Rs a month. Like all prudent army offciers would have a substantial cash balance at least in excess of around 30 lakhs for his PF gratuity and savings.
Sanatani
#325 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 8:40:54 pm
#324 BJ2: it did bust india's hotair balloon in mid-air.. :-)
#324 Posted by BJ2 on June 2, 2008 8:36:43 pm
Ten years ago, Pakistan made a big bang. But it remained a small country!
#323 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 8:00:45 pm
for clarity, the first sentence in #307 should read "i dont see any mention of the 8 people killed in the blast in your post"
#322 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 7:53:52 pm
#307 urstruly: i dont see any mention of the 8 people killed in the blast. they were all pakistanis, all poor people (one sweeper, others guards). their lives mean nothing to you? did the murderers behind this act think of the innocent people they were going to kill?
is the cartoonist any worse off as a result? these fools only proved his point about muslims being murderous and stupid!!
is the cartoonist any worse off as a result? these fools only proved his point about muslims being murderous and stupid!!
#321 Posted by VRV on June 2, 2008 6:32:26 pm
I've seen many carbomb sites (thru media) but the one in Islamabad today is something unique. The crater that formed is much deeper making it the most powerful. Was it meant for Musharraf (Plan A) or Danish Embassy (Plan B) is not yet established.
There're 55 Muslim-majority countries in the world but Pakistanis alone seem to have been hurt by the Jylland Posten cartoons. :( How can we attribute motives to the Govt of Denmark or the UNDP office in Islamabad? Why these ppl are responsible?
There're 55 Muslim-majority countries in the world but Pakistanis alone seem to have been hurt by the Jylland Posten cartoons. :( How can we attribute motives to the Govt of Denmark or the UNDP office in Islamabad? Why these ppl are responsible?
#320 Posted by NangaPir on June 2, 2008 5:47:28 pm
#313 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 2:55:59 pm
In Pakistan, it was all upper middle class, businessmen and civil bureaucrats, never the army officers. Mush is not Free Mason. As I know there is no Free Mason in Pakistan any more. So drop your old habits of following the JI propaganda. There were only two or three Free Mason Lodges in Karachi, Lahore and perhaps Pindi.
Seems you have been watching too much history channel and that what you are supposed to believe and know. And have you read mentioning of Turkey and check out the timing of lodges attack and Mush's reaction. Just google and you will find how Mush got into mason in Turkey. As for as 'there is no mason in Pakistan' is concerned it is similar to there is no RAW or CIA in Pakistan. But that is what government statement is. The reality is much different. I would refer you read "Good Muslim Bad Muslim".
In Pakistan, it was all upper middle class, businessmen and civil bureaucrats, never the army officers. Mush is not Free Mason. As I know there is no Free Mason in Pakistan any more. So drop your old habits of following the JI propaganda. There were only two or three Free Mason Lodges in Karachi, Lahore and perhaps Pindi.
Seems you have been watching too much history channel and that what you are supposed to believe and know. And have you read mentioning of Turkey and check out the timing of lodges attack and Mush's reaction. Just google and you will find how Mush got into mason in Turkey. As for as 'there is no mason in Pakistan' is concerned it is similar to there is no RAW or CIA in Pakistan. But that is what government statement is. The reality is much different. I would refer you read "Good Muslim Bad Muslim".
#319 Posted by queen_cut_paste on June 2, 2008 4:35:29 pm
http://www.friendskorner.com/forum/f137/merey-mutabiq-gen-r-jamshed-gulzar-kiyan i-2nd-june-08-a-48662/#post549688
go there for the auto start of the on-line video of the GEO interview. Its interesting, very very interesting. He appears to tbe the real life version of Zeemax, or zeemax is the cyber version of this man
go there for the auto start of the on-line video of the GEO interview. Its interesting, very very interesting. He appears to tbe the real life version of Zeemax, or zeemax is the cyber version of this man
#318 Posted by queen_cut_paste on June 2, 2008 4:34:11 pm
See the ISI general Kiani on GEO the on -line video
#317 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 3:58:20 pm
no shit sherlock...
‘Cross-border strikes killing civilians’
* Gen Majid stresses change of mindset
SINGAPORE: The cross-border strikes of the United States-led coalition forces in Afghanistan are killing civilians in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman (CJCSC) General Tariq Majid has said.
Majid was addressing the participants of 7th Shangri-La Dialogue organised in Singapore by the London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS). The general said the strikes incited vengeance of tribesmen and created the perception that the war on terror was in fact ‘anti Islam’.
‘Cross-border strikes killing civilians’
* Gen Majid stresses change of mindset
SINGAPORE: The cross-border strikes of the United States-led coalition forces in Afghanistan are killing civilians in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman (CJCSC) General Tariq Majid has said.
Majid was addressing the participants of 7th Shangri-La Dialogue organised in Singapore by the London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS). The general said the strikes incited vengeance of tribesmen and created the perception that the war on terror was in fact ‘anti Islam’.
#316 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 3:57:47 pm
NEC lowers proposed GDP growth target
* Approves Rs 541 billion Public Sector Development Programme for 2008-09
* Rejects federal demand to reduce budget of PSDP
By Ijaz Kakakhel and Sajid Chaudhry
ISLAMABAD: Following intervention by the Finance Department and the State Bank of Pakistan, the National Economic Council (NEC) on Monday revised the Planning Commission’s proposed Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth target from 6.5 percent to 5.5 percent for the fiscal year 2008-09.
* Approves Rs 541 billion Public Sector Development Programme for 2008-09
* Rejects federal demand to reduce budget of PSDP
By Ijaz Kakakhel and Sajid Chaudhry
ISLAMABAD: Following intervention by the Finance Department and the State Bank of Pakistan, the National Economic Council (NEC) on Monday revised the Planning Commission’s proposed Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth target from 6.5 percent to 5.5 percent for the fiscal year 2008-09.
#315 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 3:43:13 pm
There will be many more Scott McLellan like Jamshed Kiyanis in Pakistan who would come out of the dungeons. Where were they when it was all happening?
Sound like games has begun. Pressure the army to kick mushy out. If the army does not act, a few more former Generals would be coming out with hitherto unknown stories(for some).
Nawaz and his old pals.!
#314 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 3:18:49 pm
Nawaz wasn't taken on board on Kargil, says Gen Jamshed
submitted 1 hour 26 minutes ago
Ex-Corps Commander Rawalpindi Gen (Retd) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has said that former PM Nawaz Sharif was not taken on board regarding Kargil operation and he (Nawaz) went to the US to save Pak Army's integrity.
In an interview with a private TV channel on Monday, Jamshed said that he had briefed about the Kargil situation partially to the then PM Nawaz Sharif in a meeting chaired by Nawaz on May 17, 1999. Pervez Musharraf was also present in the briefing, he said. When Nawaz Sharif consulted his team, former minister Sartaj Aziz was the first one who stood up and said that it would be difficult to defend the operation on diplomatic front, he added. He said that at that stage, Nawaz gave a positive clue to back the operation, but at the same time, Nawaz had made it clear the support would be as long as the operation was successful, and in case of defeat, it would be difficult for the government to defend it.
He said Kargil was a failed operation and Nawaz Sharif should have been briefed thoroughly about the Kargil operation and its fallouts, but unfortunately, it was not done. Kargil operation became the core issue that created rift between Nawaz and Musharraf, he said adding that the justification Musharraf gave in his book 'In the Line of Fire' was unreasonable. He said it was a wrong impression given by Musharraf that Nawaz Sharif earned insult for Pakistan by surrendering over Kargil issue.
To a question, he said that the plane hijacking incident on Oct 12, 1999 was nothing but a story. He said that Pervez Musharraf's steps taken after 9/11 harmed Pakistan.
He said that some Corps Commanders had expressed extreme reservations regarding support for the US after 9/11 incident, but their opinion was not considered. Musharraf himself perceived that Pakistan could be sent back to stone ages, because the US official Richard Armitag had denied his statement in this regard, Kiyani argued.
Lashing out at Musharraf's regime, he said it was a failed governance set up, which has pushed the people of Pakistan into a situation where basic needs are difficult to get. He condemned the 'Operation Silence' launched against Lal Masjid and said that too much force even phosphorus bombs were used to kill several innocent people in the action.
He demanded an independent inquiry to be launched into both Kargil and Lal Masjid operations.
He said that Nov 3,.2007 action by Musharraf was unconstitutional and he should be put to trial for his steps taken since Kargil operation, adding, no safe passage should be given to Pervez Musharraf.
He further said that judiciary and deposed judges should be restored on Nov 2 position.
He said that Musharraf's policies in the war on terror provoked suicide attacks in Pakistan, which were not imaginable before 9/11. He said that divergent views surfaced in a Corps Commander meeting held to device the country's strategy after 9/11. Several Commanders expressed reservations about backing the US policy as America had ditched Pakistan in 1965 War, he said adding that in 1971, Pakistani nation suffered a defeat, and top military leadership was responsible for it and Gen Niazi's role was shameful in this connection. There were many elements involved in splitting Pakistan into two pieces in 1971, he added.
submitted 1 hour 26 minutes ago
Ex-Corps Commander Rawalpindi Gen (Retd) Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has said that former PM Nawaz Sharif was not taken on board regarding Kargil operation and he (Nawaz) went to the US to save Pak Army's integrity.
In an interview with a private TV channel on Monday, Jamshed said that he had briefed about the Kargil situation partially to the then PM Nawaz Sharif in a meeting chaired by Nawaz on May 17, 1999. Pervez Musharraf was also present in the briefing, he said. When Nawaz Sharif consulted his team, former minister Sartaj Aziz was the first one who stood up and said that it would be difficult to defend the operation on diplomatic front, he added. He said that at that stage, Nawaz gave a positive clue to back the operation, but at the same time, Nawaz had made it clear the support would be as long as the operation was successful, and in case of defeat, it would be difficult for the government to defend it.
He said Kargil was a failed operation and Nawaz Sharif should have been briefed thoroughly about the Kargil operation and its fallouts, but unfortunately, it was not done. Kargil operation became the core issue that created rift between Nawaz and Musharraf, he said adding that the justification Musharraf gave in his book 'In the Line of Fire' was unreasonable. He said it was a wrong impression given by Musharraf that Nawaz Sharif earned insult for Pakistan by surrendering over Kargil issue.
To a question, he said that the plane hijacking incident on Oct 12, 1999 was nothing but a story. He said that Pervez Musharraf's steps taken after 9/11 harmed Pakistan.
He said that some Corps Commanders had expressed extreme reservations regarding support for the US after 9/11 incident, but their opinion was not considered. Musharraf himself perceived that Pakistan could be sent back to stone ages, because the US official Richard Armitag had denied his statement in this regard, Kiyani argued.
Lashing out at Musharraf's regime, he said it was a failed governance set up, which has pushed the people of Pakistan into a situation where basic needs are difficult to get. He condemned the 'Operation Silence' launched against Lal Masjid and said that too much force even phosphorus bombs were used to kill several innocent people in the action.
He demanded an independent inquiry to be launched into both Kargil and Lal Masjid operations.
He said that Nov 3,.2007 action by Musharraf was unconstitutional and he should be put to trial for his steps taken since Kargil operation, adding, no safe passage should be given to Pervez Musharraf.
He further said that judiciary and deposed judges should be restored on Nov 2 position.
He said that Musharraf's policies in the war on terror provoked suicide attacks in Pakistan, which were not imaginable before 9/11. He said that divergent views surfaced in a Corps Commander meeting held to device the country's strategy after 9/11. Several Commanders expressed reservations about backing the US policy as America had ditched Pakistan in 1965 War, he said adding that in 1971, Pakistani nation suffered a defeat, and top military leadership was responsible for it and Gen Niazi's role was shameful in this connection. There were many elements involved in splitting Pakistan into two pieces in 1971, he added.
#313 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 2:55:59 pm
#312 Posted by NangaPir
“Mushraff belongs to Free Masonry. It is no secret. It first came to Pakistani press attention during 1965 war when Indian free masons and Pakistani free masons were cooperating under regional grand mason’s orders. Kamal Atta Turk was of slightly higher order’s mason�
Free Mason was all about the Jamaat Islami propaganda. There was nothing sinister about Free Mason. In the US, members are middle class type people who follow the British traditions of the secret societies. In Pakistan, it was all upper middle class, businessmen and civil bureaucrats, never the army officers. Mush is not Free Mason. As I know there is no Free Mason in Pakistan any more. So drop your old habits of following the JI propaganda. There were only two or three Free Mason Lodges in Karachi, Lahore and perhaps Pindi.
“It was not like Lawrence Livermore Labs where color coded badges are used for different divisions. Ask now how it is inside KRL.�
Lawrence Livermore has different functions. At KRL, no one is going to tell you about the security. They have fking MSs doing the simple job of scanning radiation on employees every day and they follow the same rules for the equipment movement. It is not security. It is a mandated procedure for every nuke facility.
The US is fully aware of the Nuke control system in Pakistan. You are right they have people everywhere. The CIA has a long reach in Pakistan.
“I wonder why a plane is parked at Islamabad for couple days to provide safe passage to Mushraff. He should be prosecuted for his heinous crimes and brought to justice. “
That would be an ideal situation but there is no mai ka lal who can prosecute a former army COAS in Pakistan. No COAS has ever left Pakistan. They all die in there. A Safe passage to Mush would be a great success at this time.
“And you need to completely uproot the beyghriet army and its gundkup officers to save Pakistan.�
Amen to that!
“Mushraff belongs to Free Masonry. It is no secret. It first came to Pakistani press attention during 1965 war when Indian free masons and Pakistani free masons were cooperating under regional grand mason’s orders. Kamal Atta Turk was of slightly higher order’s mason�
Free Mason was all about the Jamaat Islami propaganda. There was nothing sinister about Free Mason. In the US, members are middle class type people who follow the British traditions of the secret societies. In Pakistan, it was all upper middle class, businessmen and civil bureaucrats, never the army officers. Mush is not Free Mason. As I know there is no Free Mason in Pakistan any more. So drop your old habits of following the JI propaganda. There were only two or three Free Mason Lodges in Karachi, Lahore and perhaps Pindi.
“It was not like Lawrence Livermore Labs where color coded badges are used for different divisions. Ask now how it is inside KRL.�
Lawrence Livermore has different functions. At KRL, no one is going to tell you about the security. They have fking MSs doing the simple job of scanning radiation on employees every day and they follow the same rules for the equipment movement. It is not security. It is a mandated procedure for every nuke facility.
The US is fully aware of the Nuke control system in Pakistan. You are right they have people everywhere. The CIA has a long reach in Pakistan.
“I wonder why a plane is parked at Islamabad for couple days to provide safe passage to Mushraff. He should be prosecuted for his heinous crimes and brought to justice. “
That would be an ideal situation but there is no mai ka lal who can prosecute a former army COAS in Pakistan. No COAS has ever left Pakistan. They all die in there. A Safe passage to Mush would be a great success at this time.
“And you need to completely uproot the beyghriet army and its gundkup officers to save Pakistan.�
Amen to that!
#312 Posted by NangaPir on June 2, 2008 2:09:07 pm
Mushraff belongs to Free Masonry. It is no secret. It first came to Pakistani press attention during 1965 war when Indian free masons and Pakistani free masons were cooperating under regional grand mason’s orders. Kamal Atta Turk was of slightly higher order’s mason – level 3rd (There are 33 stages). He is Mushraff’s ideal. The purpose of bringing Mushraff to power was to effectively control the nuclear warheads and that purpose has been achieved fully. He acted against militants only when three masonry lodges were bombed in Turkey. He answers more to grand master than Bush who belongs to bone and skull club at Yale – a different cult. He was brought for different purpose – to neutralize the nuclear program at a different level. Mushraff is now being waited out for coming US election. People who know the inner working of KRL are aware how the security was working. If you need a screwdriver in Laser lab from engine testing site then you have to place order and the screw driver will be delivered to you on a conveyor belt. No one move from one section to other. It was not like Lawrence Livermore Labs where color coded badges are used for different divisions. Ask now how it is inside KRL. You get a badge and can roam anywhere. As Mossad is roaming in Kirkuk now CIA/RAW/Mossad roam like that in KRL. And perhaps not many or even anyone knows how nukes are “SECURE�. Let’s say you transport a nuke from point A to B on a truck. It is monitored by a satellite. Let the operator at point somewhere between point A and B wants to disable the nuke. He has to just press a button. The driver’s door will lock and a chemical will release inside cabin that will tranquilize him. Four small rockets, attached with steel rods, will fire and penetrate couple feet in ground which will make truck immobilized. Foam will emerge from inside the warhead compartment inside truck which will solidify the warhead in few minutes. And here goes your pride. I wonder why a plane is parked at Islamabad for couple days to provide safe passage to Mushraff. He should be prosecuted for his heinous crimes and brought to justice. And you need to completely uproot the beyghriet army and its gundkup officers to save Pakistan.
#311 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 2:07:46 pm
yesterday sheikh rashid denied that general kiyani had dinner with musharraf a couple of days ago - it was just a meeting over a cup of tea, a few samosas and marie biscuits ..... however, he said that general kiyani and his wife were having dinner with mush and mrs mush sunday night and that they were having chicken karahi, bhindi gosht, pea pulao, raita and afghani nan ......
..... now here is a man who knows what is going on .....
AML zindabad !
sheikh rashid zindabad !
sidney crosby murdabad !
#310 Posted by sattar2 on June 2, 2008 2:05:48 pm
Urstruly (#307):
"... insults to our Prophet (pbuh) is intolerable and it bears consequences - no ifs, ands or buts there... "
... except that you killed the wrong guys, little genius. Apparently this "minor detail" is too difficult for you to comprehend!
No wonder the ummah is going to the dogs ...
"... insults to our Prophet (pbuh) is intolerable and it bears consequences - no ifs, ands or buts there... "
... except that you killed the wrong guys, little genius. Apparently this "minor detail" is too difficult for you to comprehend!
No wonder the ummah is going to the dogs ...
#309 Posted by rf786 on June 2, 2008 1:38:07 pm
Re: # 294
HP
I saw this interview and share your opinion with one caveat, it appears to be Pak army PR exercise to excoriate itself of Mush policies.
On the subject of whether the plane did or did not have any passengers that is not clear from what the General said. He probably was hinting towards the endangerment of their (passengers) lives and casting doubts over Mush presented version.
HP
I saw this interview and share your opinion with one caveat, it appears to be Pak army PR exercise to excoriate itself of Mush policies.
On the subject of whether the plane did or did not have any passengers that is not clear from what the General said. He probably was hinting towards the endangerment of their (passengers) lives and casting doubts over Mush presented version.
#308 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 1:20:52 pm
#304 Posted by Urstruly
"Nawaz Sharif had to be punished too for taking stand on nuclear issue."
Nawaz could not have conceivably gone for the nuke tests w/o the army consent. If the US were going to punish for that, it was should have punished both-Nawaz and the army- but that did not happen.
Since the death of Zia, the army used Ishaq Khan and Farooq legahri both to remove the civilian PMs. Nawaz brought his own President who was not going to follow the GHQ orders.That forced the GHQ to deal directly with Nawaz. Nawaz won the first round and the second round went to the GHQ.
"Nawaz Sharif had to be punished too for taking stand on nuclear issue."
Nawaz could not have conceivably gone for the nuke tests w/o the army consent. If the US were going to punish for that, it was should have punished both-Nawaz and the army- but that did not happen.
Since the death of Zia, the army used Ishaq Khan and Farooq legahri both to remove the civilian PMs. Nawaz brought his own President who was not going to follow the GHQ orders.That forced the GHQ to deal directly with Nawaz. Nawaz won the first round and the second round went to the GHQ.
#307 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 1:17:52 pm
Re: # 306
I do not think that they were stupid cartoons. Simply put - danish were asking for it.
Like I said, any insults to our Prophet (pbuh) is intolerable and it bears consequences - no ifs, ands or buts there.
I do not think that they were stupid cartoons. Simply put - danish were asking for it.
Like I said, any insults to our Prophet (pbuh) is intolerable and it bears consequences - no ifs, ands or buts there.
#306 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 12:56:05 pm
urstruly #299 sorry if i ruined your day. but please try to have some sympathy for your own people - the ones who were killed in this bombing. And dont try to defend these bastards who killed them on the pretext of some stupid cartoons.
#305 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 12:53:34 pm
#292 masadi: you say "The lawyers didn't do that, the Americans did because their peon of old was damaging their main asset in Pakistan,"
This thing about "the Americans did that" (separate mush from his wardi) is Zardari's line too. And it is wrong. And it is not just wrong, it is also insulting to the Pakistani people since it belittles the role of the thousands of brave Pakistanis who came out on the streets day after day in 2007 - facing beatings by the police, facing bullets from mqm.
Rest assured that had it not been for the CJ and for these thousands of Pakistanis (the real Mujuhadeen of Pakistan), mush would still have been in place with his wardi - which is what he had wanted the CJ to rubber stamp!! And no one would have offered BB this "deal" that Zardari claims is keeping him from fulfilling the clear mandate given to PPP by its voters.
This thing about "the Americans did that" (separate mush from his wardi) is Zardari's line too. And it is wrong. And it is not just wrong, it is also insulting to the Pakistani people since it belittles the role of the thousands of brave Pakistanis who came out on the streets day after day in 2007 - facing beatings by the police, facing bullets from mqm.
Rest assured that had it not been for the CJ and for these thousands of Pakistanis (the real Mujuhadeen of Pakistan), mush would still have been in place with his wardi - which is what he had wanted the CJ to rubber stamp!! And no one would have offered BB this "deal" that Zardari claims is keeping him from fulfilling the clear mandate given to PPP by its voters.
#304 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 12:42:41 pm
Re: # 300 HP
I think americans absolutely had a hand in it. After Kargil and subsequesnt nuclear stand off with india, muchraf seemed to be a better choice to control and even dismantle pakistans nuclear program later on. Americans love generals who are corrupt, with morality of tree toads, and those who show total disregard for law of their own land.
Nawaz Sharif had to be punished too for taking stand on nuclear issue.
I think americans absolutely had a hand in it. After Kargil and subsequesnt nuclear stand off with india, muchraf seemed to be a better choice to control and even dismantle pakistans nuclear program later on. Americans love generals who are corrupt, with morality of tree toads, and those who show total disregard for law of their own land.
Nawaz Sharif had to be punished too for taking stand on nuclear issue.
#303 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 12:38:41 pm
Now, it's almost 2am and I have to get my car to a workshop in the morning, so g'night
#302 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 12:37:02 pm
HP writes "Recently, we learned that the first person Mushy met after the coup was the American ambassador."
If the Americans had asked the Pakistan Army to stand down I do not think they would have gone ahead with the coup
Stuka writes "Masadi: Your point would be correct if the appreciation of fairness did not precede any contact with gora civilization. Punjabi folk songs..."
This "fair and lovely" use is certainly not Punjab specific, it is much more ubiquitous and that omnipresence among the colored of this trait is as I wrote, the global structure of a post-colonial world, which is reinforced through actual rewards, it has nothing to do with punjabi folk culture...
If the Americans had asked the Pakistan Army to stand down I do not think they would have gone ahead with the coup
Stuka writes "Masadi: Your point would be correct if the appreciation of fairness did not precede any contact with gora civilization. Punjabi folk songs..."
This "fair and lovely" use is certainly not Punjab specific, it is much more ubiquitous and that omnipresence among the colored of this trait is as I wrote, the global structure of a post-colonial world, which is reinforced through actual rewards, it has nothing to do with punjabi folk culture...
#301 Posted by stuka on June 2, 2008 12:29:53 pm
Masadi: Your point would be correct if the appreciation of fairness did not precede any contact with gora civilization. Punjabi folk songs, folk stories etc. all are full of fairness as an ideal. Chalk it up to the Aryan invasion if you wish - but you can't lay this one on the goras. They are yesterday's people whereas we have been around for years.
#300 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 12:28:07 pm
Asadi,
"The coup was a foregone conclusion, it would have happened with or without the plane, and the Americans had a big hand in it,"
Yes, there is no doubt about the coup but I am not sure whether it was influenced by the US or not. Recently, we learned that the first person Mushy met after the coup was the American ambassador. Mostly the coup was due to the Army's interference in the civilian affairs which Nawaz resented.
#299 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 12:27:45 pm
#291 Posted by tahmed32
You ruined my day
Hamidm with his white color and bulging obesity invokes the image of the character named 'fat bastard'in one of the austin powers movies. Sure he is vomit inducing but he was the one who got lucky with a toffee like heather graham. That's another thing that she only pushed a bug up his...he looked happy nevertheless.
You ruined my day
Hamidm with his white color and bulging obesity invokes the image of the character named 'fat bastard'in one of the austin powers movies. Sure he is vomit inducing but he was the one who got lucky with a toffee like heather graham. That's another thing that she only pushed a bug up his...he looked happy nevertheless.
#297 Posted by chaltahai on June 2, 2008 12:22:51 pm
"my "long speeches" on chowk achieve more than that. "
if you consider, assaulting conventional wisdom and human knowledge as an "achievment"...well then I suppose you do have a point Masadi.
if you consider, assaulting conventional wisdom and human knowledge as an "achievment"...well then I suppose you do have a point Masadi.
#296 Posted by chaltahai on June 2, 2008 12:20:35 pm
"most trusted asset of barbarism in our countries"
How many countries do you have?
How many countries do you have?
#295 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 12:17:08 pm
stuka writes "HAHA..That was funny..i don't think whiteness has anything to do with being peon of the west..goras get tans while desis use Fair and Lovely...."
Here is where you fail to see the difference, there is a reason why the white person considers their tan attractive but still "whiter" than the lightest colored folk and doesn't tan for the purpose of building social status, on the other hand the desi uses "Fair and Lovely" because fairer implies greater social status, for the colonized minds, being more like their masters, but always less. There is qualitative difference between the two, think about it, and get some driving lessons!
Here is where you fail to see the difference, there is a reason why the white person considers their tan attractive but still "whiter" than the lightest colored folk and doesn't tan for the purpose of building social status, on the other hand the desi uses "Fair and Lovely" because fairer implies greater social status, for the colonized minds, being more like their masters, but always less. There is qualitative difference between the two, think about it, and get some driving lessons!
#294 Posted by HP on June 2, 2008 12:12:59 pm
"The then Corps Commander Rawalpindi, Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has just revealed in the Dr. Shahid Masood's show that there were no passengers in musharraf's plane on 12 Oct 99"
I watched this dimwit on TV. I don't know how he made it to the Lt.Gen. This person sounds like a complete idiot in the Niazi mold. Can't talk coherently, can't put a few words together to form a sentence in any language Urdu or English. I see why the Pak army is in the dumps. With generals like him and Mush,the army must be scraping the bottom of the Pakistani middle class to find some officers.
That was a regular flight so there must be some passengers.
Did Nawaz know abt the passengers? Why he never disclosed that?
This Gen. Keyani is looking for some cheap publicity and time on TV as an analyst on political affairs.what a joke!
I watched this dimwit on TV. I don't know how he made it to the Lt.Gen. This person sounds like a complete idiot in the Niazi mold. Can't talk coherently, can't put a few words together to form a sentence in any language Urdu or English. I see why the Pak army is in the dumps. With generals like him and Mush,the army must be scraping the bottom of the Pakistani middle class to find some officers.
That was a regular flight so there must be some passengers.
Did Nawaz know abt the passengers? Why he never disclosed that?
This Gen. Keyani is looking for some cheap publicity and time on TV as an analyst on political affairs.what a joke!
#293 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 12:06:55 pm
Zeemax writes "The then Corps Commander Rawalpindi, Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has just revealed in the Dr. Shahid Masood's show that there were no passengers in musharraf's plane on 12 Oct 99..."
The coup was a foregone conclusion, it would have happened with or without the plane, and the Americans had a big hand in it, they don't like "uppity niggers"- as they describe all independant minded third world leaders, for the purpose of which they usually activate their most trusted asset of barbarism in our countries, their occupation forces that parade as national armies...
The coup was a foregone conclusion, it would have happened with or without the plane, and the Americans had a big hand in it, they don't like "uppity niggers"- as they describe all independant minded third world leaders, for the purpose of which they usually activate their most trusted asset of barbarism in our countries, their occupation forces that parade as national armies...
#292 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 12:00:17 pm
tahmed writes "the lawyers did the most important thing months ago - mush and his wardi were separated months ago..."
The lawyers didn't do that, the Americans did because their peon of old was damaging their main asset in Pakistan, the Pakistan Army. For the lawyers, the best is yet to come and before the "best" comes I don't want to become an unnecessary casualty, my "long speeches" on chowk achieve more than that.
The lawyers didn't do that, the Americans did because their peon of old was damaging their main asset in Pakistan, the Pakistan Army. For the lawyers, the best is yet to come and before the "best" comes I don't want to become an unnecessary casualty, my "long speeches" on chowk achieve more than that.
#291 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 11:56:40 am
hamidm: did you get an appointment with Michael Jackson's plastic surgeon yet?
#290 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 11:55:20 am
zeemax: any thoughts on the PPP constitutional amendment?
#289 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 11:50:24 am
#284 zeemax: That seems hard to believe - I think the general is just making up stories. In any case, this should be easy to check - from the crew and others e.g.
But..even if the plane was full of passengers, mush's charge that this was a "murder plot" to kill him is bs.
But..even if the plane was full of passengers, mush's charge that this was a "murder plot" to kill him is bs.
#288 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 11:46:19 am
masadi #287 "I might soon join up with the lawyers to make real changes in this country....."
What took you so long to decide? Giving lengthy speeches on chowk while the lawyers were out on the streets?
the lawyers did the most important thing months ago - mush and his wardi were separated months ago.
But better late than never..as lota Hamid Gul can tell you
What took you so long to decide? Giving lengthy speeches on chowk while the lawyers were out on the streets?
the lawyers did the most important thing months ago - mush and his wardi were separated months ago.
But better late than never..as lota Hamid Gul can tell you
#287 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 11:34:50 am
Okhla writes "Highly respected and deeply loved MASADI Sahib.
How have you been doing?? Naukri mili kya??? Kharchaa kaise chal raha hai ???
Your most ardent fan.."
Hypocrite, I am doing well thank you, much better than people with enslaved minds like yours. Regarding my "naukri", I don't do "naukri", I tell the bosses that I don't give a sh** about their described hierarchy, where there is no hierarchy there is only work, no naukri. Regarding the kharcha, thanks to the dictators you support the vast majority of my countryfolk cannot keep up it it, I am more privilaged, which also allows me to bust the mythology of the myth makers and move the masses against them. I might soon join up with the lawyers to make real changes in this country.....fool
How have you been doing?? Naukri mili kya??? Kharchaa kaise chal raha hai ???
Your most ardent fan.."
Hypocrite, I am doing well thank you, much better than people with enslaved minds like yours. Regarding my "naukri", I don't do "naukri", I tell the bosses that I don't give a sh** about their described hierarchy, where there is no hierarchy there is only work, no naukri. Regarding the kharcha, thanks to the dictators you support the vast majority of my countryfolk cannot keep up it it, I am more privilaged, which also allows me to bust the mythology of the myth makers and move the masses against them. I might soon join up with the lawyers to make real changes in this country.....fool
#286 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 11:16:18 am
Re: # 284 zeemax
These fukking paper tigers need to do more than just cutting their fingers and calling themselves shaheed now when the dictator is down and weak.
If you compare Ch. Iftekhar with these papers tigers the former stands ten feet taller among them all, for he challenged the vicious dictator when his reign of murderous terror was on its full swing.
I don't trust foujis, and I think they are only trying to play jamat-e-islami with our freedom movement and deflect attention from lawyers' cause and restoration of judges. Foujis have to do a lot more to wash off the bayghairti and disgrace they have brought to this country.
These fukking paper tigers need to do more than just cutting their fingers and calling themselves shaheed now when the dictator is down and weak.
If you compare Ch. Iftekhar with these papers tigers the former stands ten feet taller among them all, for he challenged the vicious dictator when his reign of murderous terror was on its full swing.
I don't trust foujis, and I think they are only trying to play jamat-e-islami with our freedom movement and deflect attention from lawyers' cause and restoration of judges. Foujis have to do a lot more to wash off the bayghairti and disgrace they have brought to this country.
#285 Posted by tahir on June 2, 2008 11:11:19 am
Re: # 251
Ham-damn-thank-you-ma'am,
When someone admits "we are a completely f...d up bunch of people pretending to be human beings", he means you and him and others who repeatedly provide ammunition to the enemy thinking they're serving this nation!
Stay out and away from this place, please. We're busy doing work here....
Ham-damn-thank-you-ma'am,
When someone admits "we are a completely f...d up bunch of people pretending to be human beings", he means you and him and others who repeatedly provide ammunition to the enemy thinking they're serving this nation!
Stay out and away from this place, please. We're busy doing work here....
#284 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 10:29:33 am
tahmed32,
The then Corps Commander Rawalpindi, Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has just revealed in the Dr. Shahid Masood's show that there were no passengers in musharraf's plane on 12 Oct 99, and endangering passengers' lives was a cooked up story to build the hijacking charge. He refused to comment further because court judgment has been passed.
The then Corps Commander Rawalpindi, Gen Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani has just revealed in the Dr. Shahid Masood's show that there were no passengers in musharraf's plane on 12 Oct 99, and endangering passengers' lives was a cooked up story to build the hijacking charge. He refused to comment further because court judgment has been passed.
#283 Posted by rf786 on June 2, 2008 10:22:57 am
Re: # 260
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, morons using death and destruction as retaliation tools shall suffer the same, sooner the better.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, morons using death and destruction as retaliation tools shall suffer the same, sooner the better.
#282 Posted by anil on June 2, 2008 10:16:12 am
Re: # 281
Hamidm sahib:
Can I bring a crate of blue-label, you can marinate chelo kabab in it? As long as I can get my vegetarian delicacies with seekh kabab. I just do not think Michigan is such a great place though.
Hamidm sahib:
Can I bring a crate of blue-label, you can marinate chelo kabab in it? As long as I can get my vegetarian delicacies with seekh kabab. I just do not think Michigan is such a great place though.
#281 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 10:05:28 am
Re: # 278
anil mian,
.... so what am i going to do at this party for jihadis ? ..... beat my head on the floor until i am senseless ? .... besides, mrs hamidm doesn't want people washing their stinky feet in the sink and splashing water all over the bathroom floor ..... i would rather have some vegetarians over - at least they bring blue label to wash down the horrible veggie fritters ....
anil mian,
.... so what am i going to do at this party for jihadis ? ..... beat my head on the floor until i am senseless ? .... besides, mrs hamidm doesn't want people washing their stinky feet in the sink and splashing water all over the bathroom floor ..... i would rather have some vegetarians over - at least they bring blue label to wash down the horrible veggie fritters ....
#280 Posted by anil on June 2, 2008 10:03:31 am
Re: # 253
Hamdim sahib:
"... don't be so despondent ..... all bad things come to an end and the sun shines through the dark clouds ...."
Are you reading Gita in your closet?
".... the moslems are just going through a difficult phase and as soon as they have something to live for they will give up this obsession with dying ...... look, even the horrible hindoos who used to throw perfectly good women into a bonfire have stopped doing it now that they see some light at the end of the railroad track ...."
This is inspiring General Hamdim.
Hamdim sahib:
"... don't be so despondent ..... all bad things come to an end and the sun shines through the dark clouds ...."
Are you reading Gita in your closet?
".... the moslems are just going through a difficult phase and as soon as they have something to live for they will give up this obsession with dying ...... look, even the horrible hindoos who used to throw perfectly good women into a bonfire have stopped doing it now that they see some light at the end of the railroad track ...."
This is inspiring General Hamdim.
#279 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 9:58:01 am
Re: # 272
urstruly,
... oh, please! ... have you seen the singing jesus video on youtube? ... it is funny - it even might make you smile ....
urstruly,
... oh, please! ... have you seen the singing jesus video on youtube? ... it is funny - it even might make you smile ....
#278 Posted by anil on June 2, 2008 9:50:18 am
Re: # 263
Hamidm sahib:
"... we are planning on having a big party ..."
You always plan big parties, why not plan a small party for Jihadis too. You might get a recruit or two, who can start jihading for your jihad.
Hamidm sahib:
"... we are planning on having a big party ..."
You always plan big parties, why not plan a small party for Jihadis too. You might get a recruit or two, who can start jihading for your jihad.
#277 Posted by anil on June 2, 2008 9:45:53 am
Re: # 257
Hamidm sahib:
"...for all i know, all of you might be right but ..."
Such a modest statement coming from Hamidm sahib. Some is teaching him religion.
Hamidm sahib:
"...for all i know, all of you might be right but ..."
Such a modest statement coming from Hamidm sahib. Some is teaching him religion.
#275 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 9:06:50 am
#271 Posted by hamidm2,
Oh now I see why you're so upset. Boyhood trauma.
Oh now I see why you're so upset. Boyhood trauma.
#274 Posted by nycoolest on June 2, 2008 8:41:04 am
Mahsood is agencies' man, so he is roaming freely under the umbrella of Jirga talks and agreements. Army want an issue and he is provider of one....how else rogue generals would earn there amreeci dollars in term of aid if there is no trouble or at afghan-Pakistan border??
When he is not needed in future he would turn into another Naik Mohammad in no time.
When he is not needed in future he would turn into another Naik Mohammad in no time.
#273 Posted by chaltahai on June 2, 2008 8:30:07 am
#272, aren't they all homos in a madrassah? the theory doesn't fly
#272 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 8:29:24 am
Re: # 270
Baywaqoof gadhay - No one laughs at the insults Christians hurl at their own prophet; every Muslim finds it incomprehensible and disgusting. If one were to ask a Muslim, how do Jesus (pbuh) and Mohammad (pbuh) compare, the answer is: which eye of yours you like better the right one or the left one?
Please do not make up things where there are none.
Baywaqoof gadhay - No one laughs at the insults Christians hurl at their own prophet; every Muslim finds it incomprehensible and disgusting. If one were to ask a Muslim, how do Jesus (pbuh) and Mohammad (pbuh) compare, the answer is: which eye of yours you like better the right one or the left one?
Please do not make up things where there are none.
#271 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 8:25:30 am
Re: # 264
zeemax,
..... the same reason i do it over and over again even though it is rather tiresome and gets boring after a while - innoculation ...... the ummah has to be cured of this malady and the only way to do it is get them used to the idea that mo and his camel are no more sacred than jesus and his jackass or the flying monkey .......
..... by the way, as a schoolboy did you notice that the only kid who got really upset at being called a g%#doo was actually a homo ? ....
zeemax,
..... the same reason i do it over and over again even though it is rather tiresome and gets boring after a while - innoculation ...... the ummah has to be cured of this malady and the only way to do it is get them used to the idea that mo and his camel are no more sacred than jesus and his jackass or the flying monkey .......
..... by the way, as a schoolboy did you notice that the only kid who got really upset at being called a g%#doo was actually a homo ? ....
#270 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 8:20:32 am
Re: # 260
urstruly,
.... moslems are a bunch of hypocrites .... i was first shown the youtube video of the singing jesus by a diehard tahujjad praying moslem and his koran class buddies ..... they all thought it was hilarious ....... it actually is pretty funny, but i don't understand why it is ok to laugh at a jesus in diapers being run over by a bus and then getting all upset over somone making fun of mo of mecca and his camel ...... is jesus chopped liver ?
urstruly,
.... moslems are a bunch of hypocrites .... i was first shown the youtube video of the singing jesus by a diehard tahujjad praying moslem and his koran class buddies ..... they all thought it was hilarious ....... it actually is pretty funny, but i don't understand why it is ok to laugh at a jesus in diapers being run over by a bus and then getting all upset over somone making fun of mo of mecca and his camel ...... is jesus chopped liver ?
#269 Posted by okhla99 on June 2, 2008 8:19:02 am
Highly respected and deeply loved MASADI Sahib.
How have you been doing?? Naukri mili kya??? Kharchaa kaise chal raha hai ???
Your most ardent fan..
Okhla
How have you been doing?? Naukri mili kya??? Kharchaa kaise chal raha hai ???
Your most ardent fan..
Okhla
#268 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 8:18:56 am
#265 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 8:15:26 am
because of the incompetent police.
yeah...you need fantastic police work to find guys who are not even trying to hide..
Taliban Leader Flaunts Power Inside Pakistan
By JANE PERLEZ
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — With great fanfare, the Pakistani Army flew journalists to a rugged corner of the nation’s lawless tribal areas in May to show how decisively it had destroyed the lairs of the Taliban, including a school for suicide bombers, in fighting early this year.
Then, just days later, the usually reclusive leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Baitullah Mehsud, held a news conference of his own, in the same region, to show just who was in charge.
He rolled up in an expensive-looking Toyota pickup packed with heavily armed Taliban fighters, according to the Pakistani journalists invited to attend. Squatting on the floor of a government school, Mr. Mehsud, clasping a new Kalashnikov, announced he would press his fight against the American military across the border in Afghanistan.
“Islam does not recognize boundaries,� he told the journalists, in accounts published in Pakistani newspapers and reported by the BBC. “There can be no deal with the United States."
because of the incompetent police.
yeah...you need fantastic police work to find guys who are not even trying to hide..
Taliban Leader Flaunts Power Inside Pakistan
By JANE PERLEZ
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — With great fanfare, the Pakistani Army flew journalists to a rugged corner of the nation’s lawless tribal areas in May to show how decisively it had destroyed the lairs of the Taliban, including a school for suicide bombers, in fighting early this year.
Then, just days later, the usually reclusive leader of the Pakistani Taliban, Baitullah Mehsud, held a news conference of his own, in the same region, to show just who was in charge.
He rolled up in an expensive-looking Toyota pickup packed with heavily armed Taliban fighters, according to the Pakistani journalists invited to attend. Squatting on the floor of a government school, Mr. Mehsud, clasping a new Kalashnikov, announced he would press his fight against the American military across the border in Afghanistan.
“Islam does not recognize boundaries,� he told the journalists, in accounts published in Pakistani newspapers and reported by the BBC. “There can be no deal with the United States."
#267 Posted by chaltahai on June 2, 2008 8:18:37 am
that's right tahmed, grab a trishul and hunt them down. no one else will do it. Man up Nigga!!
Hamidm, I think outside of 4 people in canada, you are the only one who likes hockey.
Hamidm, I think outside of 4 people in canada, you are the only one who likes hockey.
#266 Posted by BKisan on June 2, 2008 8:17:41 am
Masadi should F off to Saudi Arabia where he will get paid less than the white man based on his wheatish complexion rather than equal wages of the evil US.
Urstruly the hypocrite should leave the US too as he openly supports blowing up Western embassies because of 'insulting' cartoons.
Why can't he move to Saudi too?
Urstruly the hypocrite should leave the US too as he openly supports blowing up Western embassies because of 'insulting' cartoons.
Why can't he move to Saudi too?
#265 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 8:15:26 am
why are these bombers allowed to roam freely in Pakistan, killing innocent people? because of the incompetent police.
if the police start tracking down these killers (the way the US FBI put an end to the mafia scum in the US), if there are honest judges (as opposed to musharraf's or zardari's puppets) in place, these murderers will start getting tried and hanged. And that day Pakistan will find peace from these rogues.
And to call these bastards muslims is to insult all muslims.
if the police start tracking down these killers (the way the US FBI put an end to the mafia scum in the US), if there are honest judges (as opposed to musharraf's or zardari's puppets) in place, these murderers will start getting tried and hanged. And that day Pakistan will find peace from these rogues.
And to call these bastards muslims is to insult all muslims.
#264 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 8:15:11 am
#257 Posted by hamidm2,
What I don't understand is why they did it all over again, and at a bigger scale this time.
I mean, 'Freedom of expression' was exercised once, and the matter had almost died down. But reprinting that silliness all over again? Can you explain to me why?
What I don't understand is why they did it all over again, and at a bigger scale this time.
I mean, 'Freedom of expression' was exercised once, and the matter had almost died down. But reprinting that silliness all over again? Can you explain to me why?
#263 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 8:12:19 am
Re: # 259
dost-mittar,
..... unfortunately i don't have tickets ... but we are planning on having a big party to watch sidney crosby get his butt kicked - i am sick and tired of hearing how this kid is the next god .....
go wings !
dost-mittar,
..... unfortunately i don't have tickets ... but we are planning on having a big party to watch sidney crosby get his butt kicked - i am sick and tired of hearing how this kid is the next god .....
go wings !
#262 Posted by tahmed32 on June 2, 2008 8:08:03 am
urstruly: you dont need to remind us every day that you are a fool.
#261 Posted by chaltahai on June 2, 2008 7:55:28 am
retaliation...LOL! they blew up a danish embassy in pakistan..killing pakistanis (muslims). jokers
#260 Posted by Urstruly on June 2, 2008 7:44:57 am
I do not condemn anything nor do I endorse for what was inevitable. I don't know what would it take to make people understand that there will be consequences for any insults towards our Holy Prophet (pbuh) - it is just a matter of time but retaliation is certain as death and taxes. Danish were well aware of these consequnces and yet in their arrogance they did not pay heed to freindly reminders. As a matter of fact they took these freindly pieces of advice as sign of weekness. bhugto ab.
#259 Posted by dost_mittar on June 2, 2008 7:14:17 am
hamidm2:
Are you going to be at the joe louis stadium tonight? And have you moved forward the Pakistani time on your wall clock?
Are you going to be at the joe louis stadium tonight? And have you moved forward the Pakistani time on your wall clock?
#258 Posted by vengatramanan on June 2, 2008 6:44:37 am
Re: # 257
Hamidm,
Laughing at flying horses will undermine the intelligence of the believer, which could be very incensing, which again could be a natural reflex.
Hamidm,
Laughing at flying horses will undermine the intelligence of the believer, which could be very incensing, which again could be a natural reflex.
#257 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 6:27:37 am
Re: # 254
zeemax,
.... i never said it is a 'misbelief' - it is just another belief among many others ..... there are a billion catholics who believe that a silly man in a white frock and a funny hat is divine and there are an equal number of hindoos who believe that a flying monkey is a god ....... for all i know, all of you might be right but that you don't have to be 'ferociously protective' of your belief ....... if it is right, it is right and there is nothing you or i or the danes can do anything about it ..... and if you are wrong, it is no big whup ....... either way a belief in flying horses or monkeys does not justify blowing up buildings and killing innocent people ....... it is really quite simple
zeemax,
.... i never said it is a 'misbelief' - it is just another belief among many others ..... there are a billion catholics who believe that a silly man in a white frock and a funny hat is divine and there are an equal number of hindoos who believe that a flying monkey is a god ....... for all i know, all of you might be right but that you don't have to be 'ferociously protective' of your belief ....... if it is right, it is right and there is nothing you or i or the danes can do anything about it ..... and if you are wrong, it is no big whup ....... either way a belief in flying horses or monkeys does not justify blowing up buildings and killing innocent people ....... it is really quite simple
#256 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 6:07:18 am
Mr Rafique: you were telling us about pakiland squeezing a certain part of the anatomy..
Suspected missile strike in Pakistan tribal area: officials
6 hours ago
MIRANSHAH, Pakistan (AFP) — A suspected missile strike destroyed buildings including a mosque in a Pakistani tribal area early Monday, but there were no immediate reports of casualties, security officials said.
At least two blasts ripped through the compound in Spilga, a village on the outskirts of Miranshah, the main town in the Taliban stronghold of North Waziristan, the officials told AFP.
No casualties were reported after the explosions, which happened shortly after midnight (1800 GMT), said the officials who are based in the region.
Officials in Islamabad said they had no details.
Missile attacks attributed to US-led forces in neighbouring Afghanistan in the past have claimed the lives of several militants in Pakistan's volatile tribal belt.
More than a dozen people were killed in a missile strike in the Bajaur tribal region in May. The Pakistani military said it had lodged a protest with the US-led coalition over that attack.
Suspected missile strike in Pakistan tribal area: officials
6 hours ago
MIRANSHAH, Pakistan (AFP) — A suspected missile strike destroyed buildings including a mosque in a Pakistani tribal area early Monday, but there were no immediate reports of casualties, security officials said.
At least two blasts ripped through the compound in Spilga, a village on the outskirts of Miranshah, the main town in the Taliban stronghold of North Waziristan, the officials told AFP.
No casualties were reported after the explosions, which happened shortly after midnight (1800 GMT), said the officials who are based in the region.
Officials in Islamabad said they had no details.
Missile attacks attributed to US-led forces in neighbouring Afghanistan in the past have claimed the lives of several militants in Pakistan's volatile tribal belt.
More than a dozen people were killed in a missile strike in the Bajaur tribal region in May. The Pakistani military said it had lodged a protest with the US-led coalition over that attack.
#255 Posted by _arjun4 on June 2, 2008 5:55:19 am
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#254 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 5:30:34 am
#251 Posted by hamidm2,
You can argue all you want but that doesn't convince Muslims.
For you, it is a 'misbelief', but you miss that it is very widely held and a ferociously protected belief, and nothing you or Denmark etc can do to change that. So why try so hard?
You can argue all you want but that doesn't convince Muslims.
For you, it is a 'misbelief', but you miss that it is very widely held and a ferociously protected belief, and nothing you or Denmark etc can do to change that. So why try so hard?
#253 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 5:21:26 am
Re: # 252
cheema sahib,
... don't be so despondent ..... all bad things come to an end and the sun shines through the dark clouds ..... the moslems are just going through a difficult phase and as soon as they have something to live for they will give up this obsession with dying ...... look, even the horrible hindoos who used to throw perfectly good women into a bonfire have stopped doing it now that they see some light at the end of the railroad track .......
cheema sahib,
... don't be so despondent ..... all bad things come to an end and the sun shines through the dark clouds ..... the moslems are just going through a difficult phase and as soon as they have something to live for they will give up this obsession with dying ...... look, even the horrible hindoos who used to throw perfectly good women into a bonfire have stopped doing it now that they see some light at the end of the railroad track .......
#252 Posted by akcheema on June 2, 2008 4:56:24 am
Re: # 251; hamidm sahib,
Let's face it,...we are a completely fucked up bunch of people pretending to be human beings
we'll forget about it as some new topic comes along.....only until it happens again.....and again......and again.....and again....
I just don't have anything else to say
Let's face it,...we are a completely fucked up bunch of people pretending to be human beings
we'll forget about it as some new topic comes along.....only until it happens again.....and again......and again.....and again....
I just don't have anything else to say
#251 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 4:46:31 am
Re: # 250
zeemax,
..... and how is the prophet (pbuh and his camel) different from hanuman ji ? ..... arjun doesn't have a tail either but that doesn't mean he is not a macaca ......
zeemax,
..... and how is the prophet (pbuh and his camel) different from hanuman ji ? ..... arjun doesn't have a tail either but that doesn't mean he is not a macaca ......
#250 Posted by zeemax on June 2, 2008 4:13:06 am
#249 Posted by hamidm2,
Hamidm Mian, I condemn it in the strongest terms - but not without qualifications. Sorry.
To Muslims their Prophet, remember, is not the same as Hanuman whose cartoons one can draw in jest. Why is that so difficult to understand? And BTW, why's the 92 year old MF Hussain sitting in exile? People do have religious sentiments - even Hindus. Muslims are more aggressive, that's all.
The provokers must be condemned at the same time.
Hamidm Mian, I condemn it in the strongest terms - but not without qualifications. Sorry.
To Muslims their Prophet, remember, is not the same as Hanuman whose cartoons one can draw in jest. Why is that so difficult to understand? And BTW, why's the 92 year old MF Hussain sitting in exile? People do have religious sentiments - even Hindus. Muslims are more aggressive, that's all.
The provokers must be condemned at the same time.
#249 Posted by hamidm2 on June 2, 2008 3:58:01 am
sr mian,
... do you really expect the likes of zeemax, urstruly and echoboom to codemn this act ?...... they are probably out there celebrating and distributing ladoos - actually i wouldn't be surprised if urstruly planned this from his new abode along the pak-afghan border .......
.........having said that, i think that if the droopy-eyed cj had been restored to his throne this would never have happened ....... and if it did, he would have taken suo moto notice of this dastardly act and orderd the culprits to be produced before him .........
.... and let this also be a warning to the hyperventilating hindoo hyenas on this forum - if we can do this with a car full of firecrackers, just imagine what we can do with the bum .....
#248 Posted by majumdar on June 2, 2008 3:47:02 am
SR,
(I invite all of you to make a solemn declaration of open disgust and condemnation, without ANY qualifications whatsoever against this (and similar) criminal acts.)
I do.
Regards
(I invite all of you to make a solemn declaration of open disgust and condemnation, without ANY qualifications whatsoever against this (and similar) criminal acts.)
I do.
Regards
#247 Posted by SR on June 2, 2008 3:34:12 am
CRIME of PASSION or COLD BLOODED MURDER?
I was going over the draft of a document when my windows rattled with a loud thud. My nine year old son shouted from the next room, "Daddy was that a bomb?" Instinctively I responded in the negative trying to assure him that it must only be a firecracker. Inwards I felt otherwise. I sent Jannet Gul to go and find out what happened. Fifteen minutes later he returned with the news that the Dannish mission had been bombed. My five year old daughter's school is only a block away and all the school windows were shattered. Fortunately the kids were home because summer break had begun just today.
Now what is this act? It is a terrorist crime, plain and simple.
Whatever was the 'justification' of this criminal act it does not suffice. The tragedy however is that many people, even educated ones, and I am sad to say that even some amongst our own circle of friends, will try and defend this barbarian crime. The stupid cartoons published in Denmark will be held by some as a greater offense and this so-called 'retaliation' will find many apologists.
I invite all of you to make a solemn declaration of open disgust and condemnation, without ANY qualifications whatsoever against this (and similar) criminal acts. Until Muslims develop the courage to stand up to these retrograde evil does amongst us, we shall never rise above the sewage gutters of humanity that we find ourselves in today.
...SR
Islamabad, June 2, 2008
I was going over the draft of a document when my windows rattled with a loud thud. My nine year old son shouted from the next room, "Daddy was that a bomb?" Instinctively I responded in the negative trying to assure him that it must only be a firecracker. Inwards I felt otherwise. I sent Jannet Gul to go and find out what happened. Fifteen minutes later he returned with the news that the Dannish mission had been bombed. My five year old daughter's school is only a block away and all the school windows were shattered. Fortunately the kids were home because summer break had begun just today.
Now what is this act? It is a terrorist crime, plain and simple.
Whatever was the 'justification' of this criminal act it does not suffice. The tragedy however is that many people, even educated ones, and I am sad to say that even some amongst our own circle of friends, will try and defend this barbarian crime. The stupid cartoons published in Denmark will be held by some as a greater offense and this so-called 'retaliation' will find many apologists.
I invite all of you to make a solemn declaration of open disgust and condemnation, without ANY qualifications whatsoever against this (and similar) criminal acts. Until Muslims develop the courage to stand up to these retrograde evil does amongst us, we shall never rise above the sewage gutters of humanity that we find ourselves in today.
...SR
Islamabad, June 2, 2008
#246 Posted by masadi on June 2, 2008 1:16:04 am
tahmed writes to ana "you must be really young to not be driving yet. please unlearn whatever you have learnt from chowk."
In other words Ana, this peon of the West wants you to become an unconditional slave to the West, as he is and reverently occupy your subordinate position while masking the white man's unjust system of racial gradation. If I were you, I'd tell this fool to F off....
In other words Ana, this peon of the West wants you to become an unconditional slave to the West, as he is and reverently occupy your subordinate position while masking the white man's unjust system of racial gradation. If I were you, I'd tell this fool to F off....
#245 Posted by nkg on June 1, 2008 9:41:08 pm
Ahmed, Arjun...
Whether US attacks Iran or Pakistan, it is not good news for anybody. I am sure in such situation India is going to be the looser and will be dependant more and more on USA. When USSR disintegrated, lot of people in India ( specially RSS guys) rejoiced. And unfortunately, India is now failing to take any independant foreign policy decision. Even Vajpayee was quite timid, when USA attacked Iraq (though it was the only issue, entire parliament had taken un-animous resolution).
Whether US attacks Iran or Pakistan, it is not good news for anybody. I am sure in such situation India is going to be the looser and will be dependant more and more on USA. When USSR disintegrated, lot of people in India ( specially RSS guys) rejoiced. And unfortunately, India is now failing to take any independant foreign policy decision. Even Vajpayee was quite timid, when USA attacked Iraq (though it was the only issue, entire parliament had taken un-animous resolution).
#244 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 8:18:19 pm
Re: # 243; madani sahib,
I don't know how old you are sir, so I apologise if my assumptions appear to be rude; I can assure you, it is not intentional
I just wanted your opinion on the pre-partition status within India especially under the British Raj....which would you prefer.....now or then....that is assuming you were old enough to appreciate the reality of the times I am referring to
I don't know how old you are sir, so I apologise if my assumptions appear to be rude; I can assure you, it is not intentional
I just wanted your opinion on the pre-partition status within India especially under the British Raj....which would you prefer.....now or then....that is assuming you were old enough to appreciate the reality of the times I am referring to
#243 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 1, 2008 8:04:23 pm
Re: # 241 Arjun.... USA preparing to abandon. It is begining of end.
troops needed for Afghanistan: ISAF
Monday, June 02, 2008
ISLAMABAD: In an interview to Spiegel, a German magazine, the outgoing ISAF Commander McNeill confessed having inadequate trained forces to effectively counter terrorism in Afghanistan. Nato has only 47,000 soldiers instead of a required strength of 400,000 with a shortfall of 260,000 men. Nato is practically running on reserve, as very few units can be used in combat situation. While neighboring countries want peace in the region, manning a volatile country with only 47,000 Nato troops and practically no well trained Afghan Army, the mission to bring peace to the region seems an uphill task, McNeill said.
After taking over Takhta at I-Bad and lahore they turn attention on India.
Danger signal.
troops needed for Afghanistan: ISAF
Monday, June 02, 2008
ISLAMABAD: In an interview to Spiegel, a German magazine, the outgoing ISAF Commander McNeill confessed having inadequate trained forces to effectively counter terrorism in Afghanistan. Nato has only 47,000 soldiers instead of a required strength of 400,000 with a shortfall of 260,000 men. Nato is practically running on reserve, as very few units can be used in combat situation. While neighboring countries want peace in the region, manning a volatile country with only 47,000 Nato troops and practically no well trained Afghan Army, the mission to bring peace to the region seems an uphill task, McNeill said.
After taking over Takhta at I-Bad and lahore they turn attention on India.
Danger signal.
#242 Posted by dost_mittar on June 1, 2008 7:49:49 pm
harimou@240:
I didn't know it was from a poem. Thanks. It's quite hilarious.
I didn't know it was from a poem. Thanks. It's quite hilarious.
#241 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 5:38:55 pm
boots up paki rear..
Pentagon planning ‘boots on ground’ in Waziristan
* Columnist says US readying to attack Iran
* Washington desperate to keep President Musharraf in power
Daily Times Monitor
WASHINGTON: “So alarmed is the Pentagon, that Defence Secretary Robert Gates’ plans to send US ground forces into the FATA are being rapidly advanced,� writes journalist Eric Margolis in his syndicated column read worldwide.
“Apparently, Washington’s criticism of Islamabad’s recent peace deals in the tribal territories has sharply intensified. American conservatives are claiming Pakistan has ‘sold out’ to Al Qaeda and Taliban, and is sheltering Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts.�
US fears: Margolis writes about Washington’s desperate efforts to keep President Pervez Musharraf afloat because it fears that a fully civilianised government in Islamabad would be more responsive to anti-American sentiment in Pakistan and wash its hands of the war on terror at a time when more, not less, Pakistani support is needed to help US troops in Afghanistan confront the Taliban summer offensive.
“Musharraf’s slow-motion fall from power has also wrong-footed Washington because it was counting on using US bases there in the event of an attack on Iran,� reveals Margolis. “The US capitol is again buzzing with rumours of an impending air campaign against at least 3,000 targets in Iran that will be launched sometime before November elections to boost the fortunes of the embattled Republicans. Israel’s American supporters are waging an all-out campaign for war against Iran. This week, they began running TV commercials claiming Iran was attacking the United States.�
Margolis argues that as Pakistan’s economy takes a battering over soaring oil prices and political instability, and faces a punishing recession, if not an outright financial crisis, it will become increasingly dependent on US aid. “That is Washington’s last hope. Pakistan will have the Hobson’s choice of either continuing to support the US-led war in Afghanistan, and incur growing armed resistance in Pashtun tribal areas, or be left in the cold and without US financial aid when its failing economy finally hits the wall.�
He explains that the Pentagon is angry and frustrated over the failing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and dismayed with Pakistan for being ‘non-responsive’ to US demands. “Washington is so used to getting its way that it cannot abide the natives being insubordinate. The mood in Washington is increasingly warlike and grim as the beleaguered Bush administration enters its final days.�
Pentagon planning ‘boots on ground’ in Waziristan
* Columnist says US readying to attack Iran
* Washington desperate to keep President Musharraf in power
Daily Times Monitor
WASHINGTON: “So alarmed is the Pentagon, that Defence Secretary Robert Gates’ plans to send US ground forces into the FATA are being rapidly advanced,� writes journalist Eric Margolis in his syndicated column read worldwide.
“Apparently, Washington’s criticism of Islamabad’s recent peace deals in the tribal territories has sharply intensified. American conservatives are claiming Pakistan has ‘sold out’ to Al Qaeda and Taliban, and is sheltering Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts.�
US fears: Margolis writes about Washington’s desperate efforts to keep President Pervez Musharraf afloat because it fears that a fully civilianised government in Islamabad would be more responsive to anti-American sentiment in Pakistan and wash its hands of the war on terror at a time when more, not less, Pakistani support is needed to help US troops in Afghanistan confront the Taliban summer offensive.
“Musharraf’s slow-motion fall from power has also wrong-footed Washington because it was counting on using US bases there in the event of an attack on Iran,� reveals Margolis. “The US capitol is again buzzing with rumours of an impending air campaign against at least 3,000 targets in Iran that will be launched sometime before November elections to boost the fortunes of the embattled Republicans. Israel’s American supporters are waging an all-out campaign for war against Iran. This week, they began running TV commercials claiming Iran was attacking the United States.�
Margolis argues that as Pakistan’s economy takes a battering over soaring oil prices and political instability, and faces a punishing recession, if not an outright financial crisis, it will become increasingly dependent on US aid. “That is Washington’s last hope. Pakistan will have the Hobson’s choice of either continuing to support the US-led war in Afghanistan, and incur growing armed resistance in Pashtun tribal areas, or be left in the cold and without US financial aid when its failing economy finally hits the wall.�
He explains that the Pentagon is angry and frustrated over the failing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and dismayed with Pakistan for being ‘non-responsive’ to US demands. “Washington is so used to getting its way that it cannot abide the natives being insubordinate. The mood in Washington is increasingly warlike and grim as the beleaguered Bush administration enters its final days.�
#240 Posted by harimau on June 1, 2008 5:14:37 pm
Ref dost_mittar #229
[Haven't you heard the Indian endlish saying, "Only englishmen and dogs go out in the sun".]
That would actually be "mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun" from a Noel Coward song.
Mad Dogs and Englishmen
(Noel Coward)
In tropical climes there are certain times of day
When all the citizens retire,
to tear their clothes off and perspire.
It's one of those rules that the biggest fools obey,
Because the sun is much too sultry and one must avoid
its ultry-violet ray --
Papalaka-papalaka-papalaka-boo. (Repeat)
Digariga-digariga-digariga-doo. (Repeat)
The natives grieve when the white men leave their huts,
Because they're obviously, absolutely nuts --
Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The Japanese don't care to, the Chinese wouldn't dare to,
Hindus and Argentines sleep firmly from twelve to one,
But Englishmen detest a siesta,
In the Philippines there are lovely screens,
to protect you from the glare,
In the Malay states there are hats like plates,
which the Britishers won't wear,
At twelve noon the natives swoon, and
no further work is done -
But Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
It's such a surprise for the Eastern eyes to see,
That though the British are effete,
they're quite impervious to heat,
When the white man rides, every native hides in glee,
Because the simple creatures hope he will
impale his solar topee on a tree.
Bolyboly-bolyboly-bolyboly-baa. (Repeat)
Habaninny-habaninny-habaninny-haa. (Repeat)
It seems such a shame that when the English claim the earth
That they give rise to such hilarity and mirth -
Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The toughest Burmese bandit can never understand it.
In Rangoon the heat of noon is just what the natives shun.
They put their scotch or rye down, and lie down.
In the jungle town where the sun beats down,
to the rage of man or beast,
The English garb of the English sahib merely gets a bit more creased.
In Bangkok, at twelve o'clock, they foam at the mouth and run,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
Mad Dogs and Englishmen, go out in the midday sun.
The smallest Malay rabbit deplores this stupid habit.
In Hong Kong, they strike a gong, and fire off a noonday gun.
To reprimand each inmate, who's in late.
In the mangrove swamps where the python romps
there is peace from twelve till two.
Even caribous lie down and snooze, for there's nothing else to do.
In Bengal, to move at all, is seldom if ever done,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
[Haven't you heard the Indian endlish saying, "Only englishmen and dogs go out in the sun".]
That would actually be "mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun" from a Noel Coward song.
Mad Dogs and Englishmen
(Noel Coward)
In tropical climes there are certain times of day
When all the citizens retire,
to tear their clothes off and perspire.
It's one of those rules that the biggest fools obey,
Because the sun is much too sultry and one must avoid
its ultry-violet ray --
Papalaka-papalaka-papalaka-boo. (Repeat)
Digariga-digariga-digariga-doo. (Repeat)
The natives grieve when the white men leave their huts,
Because they're obviously, absolutely nuts --
Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The Japanese don't care to, the Chinese wouldn't dare to,
Hindus and Argentines sleep firmly from twelve to one,
But Englishmen detest a siesta,
In the Philippines there are lovely screens,
to protect you from the glare,
In the Malay states there are hats like plates,
which the Britishers won't wear,
At twelve noon the natives swoon, and
no further work is done -
But Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
It's such a surprise for the Eastern eyes to see,
That though the British are effete,
they're quite impervious to heat,
When the white man rides, every native hides in glee,
Because the simple creatures hope he will
impale his solar topee on a tree.
Bolyboly-bolyboly-bolyboly-baa. (Repeat)
Habaninny-habaninny-habaninny-haa. (Repeat)
It seems such a shame that when the English claim the earth
That they give rise to such hilarity and mirth -
Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
The toughest Burmese bandit can never understand it.
In Rangoon the heat of noon is just what the natives shun.
They put their scotch or rye down, and lie down.
In the jungle town where the sun beats down,
to the rage of man or beast,
The English garb of the English sahib merely gets a bit more creased.
In Bangkok, at twelve o'clock, they foam at the mouth and run,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
Mad Dogs and Englishmen, go out in the midday sun.
The smallest Malay rabbit deplores this stupid habit.
In Hong Kong, they strike a gong, and fire off a noonday gun.
To reprimand each inmate, who's in late.
In the mangrove swamps where the python romps
there is peace from twelve till two.
Even caribous lie down and snooze, for there's nothing else to do.
In Bengal, to move at all, is seldom if ever done,
But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.
#239 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 3:32:18 pm
what's this? I thought the bomb was supposed to allow pakiland to cut back on defense spending diverting that money to the economy and outdoing the hindoos...
now they tell us paki defense spending has been going up and up??!!??
95pc people for cut in defence expenditures: survey
submitted 1 hour 53 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD - A survey soliciting proposals for upcoming budget suggests that 95 per cent of the respondents have demanded of the government to give less importance to the defence spending while making budget for 2008-09.
50 per cent of them have given top priority to health and education sector, while 31 per cent people have prioritised that agriculture sector should also be given priority for overall economic growth in the country, where as 14 per cent were of the view that infrastructure should be developed.
The survey was conducted by Human Development and Rights section of Sungi Development Foundation, a right-based civil society organisation.
Following seeking priorities for national budget, the respondents were also gathered at the seminar and reiterated that the budget 2008-09 needs to be formulated on the principles of justice, equality and democracy if it is to have any real meaning. They recommended that unnecessary ministries should be abolished to reduce the expenses and defence budget must be brought under the purview of Parliament.
They were of the view that an integrated development plan is required at the national level to address all the development-related issues.
The participants of the pre-budget seminar were stakeholders, including Sungi's community partners from Hazara Division and Azad Kashmir, elected and non-elected local government representatives, parliamentarians and representatives of trade unions, media and concerned citizens were among the respondents and participants of the pre-budget seminar.
The other recommendations made during the survey includes: "Installation of water treatment plants at community level to provide safe drinking water, youth needs to be engaged into sports and cultural activities, education must be given priority to provide quality education to the masses so that they can take part in the socio-economic development of the country, considerable cut in the defense budget and saving should be allocated for the social sector development, policies should be made to address the issue of unemployment, reconstruction and rehabilitation of earthquake affected area is required; people want to see the cut on taxes in coming budget and certainly no new taxes; substantial salary increment for government employees, balancing the taxation by bringing in more tax payer (rich) which are usually a less payers, developing a website showing budget details at the national, provincial and district level, structural land reforms to end the poverty."
The survey also recommended that special measure should be taken to decrease 'growing inflation' rate to benefit the poor and salaried class and those who have large, often untaxed incomes and much greater resource allocation needs to be allocated for women-related.
The participants of the seminar heavily criticised the district governments for allocating meagre funds for the development of social sectors. Chief Guest of the seminar, District Nazim Haripur, Yousaf Ayub Khan also sought more budget allocations to bridge the gap between development and non-development expenditures.
A majority of participants underlined the need to allocate at least 15 to 20 per cent funds for the development sector while in the past two years only 2 to 3 per cent funds could be set aside in their district. Most of the participants were of the view that the term "Maximum relief for the poor" is just a political slogan. "Policy makers and decision makers prepare budgets for the rich and the poor get in the quagmire of insecurity," they added.
now they tell us paki defense spending has been going up and up??!!??
95pc people for cut in defence expenditures: survey
submitted 1 hour 53 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD - A survey soliciting proposals for upcoming budget suggests that 95 per cent of the respondents have demanded of the government to give less importance to the defence spending while making budget for 2008-09.
50 per cent of them have given top priority to health and education sector, while 31 per cent people have prioritised that agriculture sector should also be given priority for overall economic growth in the country, where as 14 per cent were of the view that infrastructure should be developed.
The survey was conducted by Human Development and Rights section of Sungi Development Foundation, a right-based civil society organisation.
Following seeking priorities for national budget, the respondents were also gathered at the seminar and reiterated that the budget 2008-09 needs to be formulated on the principles of justice, equality and democracy if it is to have any real meaning. They recommended that unnecessary ministries should be abolished to reduce the expenses and defence budget must be brought under the purview of Parliament.
They were of the view that an integrated development plan is required at the national level to address all the development-related issues.
The participants of the pre-budget seminar were stakeholders, including Sungi's community partners from Hazara Division and Azad Kashmir, elected and non-elected local government representatives, parliamentarians and representatives of trade unions, media and concerned citizens were among the respondents and participants of the pre-budget seminar.
The other recommendations made during the survey includes: "Installation of water treatment plants at community level to provide safe drinking water, youth needs to be engaged into sports and cultural activities, education must be given priority to provide quality education to the masses so that they can take part in the socio-economic development of the country, considerable cut in the defense budget and saving should be allocated for the social sector development, policies should be made to address the issue of unemployment, reconstruction and rehabilitation of earthquake affected area is required; people want to see the cut on taxes in coming budget and certainly no new taxes; substantial salary increment for government employees, balancing the taxation by bringing in more tax payer (rich) which are usually a less payers, developing a website showing budget details at the national, provincial and district level, structural land reforms to end the poverty."
The survey also recommended that special measure should be taken to decrease 'growing inflation' rate to benefit the poor and salaried class and those who have large, often untaxed incomes and much greater resource allocation needs to be allocated for women-related.
The participants of the seminar heavily criticised the district governments for allocating meagre funds for the development of social sectors. Chief Guest of the seminar, District Nazim Haripur, Yousaf Ayub Khan also sought more budget allocations to bridge the gap between development and non-development expenditures.
A majority of participants underlined the need to allocate at least 15 to 20 per cent funds for the development sector while in the past two years only 2 to 3 per cent funds could be set aside in their district. Most of the participants were of the view that the term "Maximum relief for the poor" is just a political slogan. "Policy makers and decision makers prepare budgets for the rich and the poor get in the quagmire of insecurity," they added.
#238 Posted by Pardesi on June 1, 2008 2:40:50 pm
#234 Ahmed sahib,
If that's what he meant, then my apologies.
However, on world political level I do not believe India acts like that. I am of course not talking about Chowk since we have all kinds of interactors on both sides who just love to tease each other :).
If that's what he meant, then my apologies.
However, on world political level I do not believe India acts like that. I am of course not talking about Chowk since we have all kinds of interactors on both sides who just love to tease each other :).
#237 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 2:37:35 pm
pardesi #235 people who are really secure (let alone proud) in themselves dont need to insult other people either. i know you are not like many indians - but there are enough of the kind i am talking about.
#236 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 2:36:03 pm
alice #227 yes indeed the question was to you (sorry for the confusion by skipping your nick). you must be really young to not be driving yet. please unlearn whatever you have learnt from chowk.
#235 Posted by Pardesi on June 1, 2008 2:34:11 pm
Re: # 176 Madani
I admire India for not sucking up to and running up to mai-baap Saudis every time there is need for help. Proud people like to suffer, if necessary, educate themselves, compete on world level and buy whatever is necessary at world prices. I wish your country can also learn something from India given you guys have as much talent, human resources and proud history.
I admire India for not sucking up to and running up to mai-baap Saudis every time there is need for help. Proud people like to suffer, if necessary, educate themselves, compete on world level and buy whatever is necessary at world prices. I wish your country can also learn something from India given you guys have as much talent, human resources and proud history.
#234 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 2:30:09 pm
#233 pardesi: er..i think you misunderstood what hamidm meant by "let it go". It isnt this "striving" that you took it to mean - it is acting like losers who need to prove they are better than pakis every day.
Hamidm has his blemishes, but halting progress is not one of them.
Hamidm has his blemishes, but halting progress is not one of them.
#233 Posted by Pardesi on June 1, 2008 2:25:06 pm
Re: # 175 hamid
"..... guys, let it go ! ..... you have made it - wipro, infosys, tata ... and mukesh is building a palace that will shame a bedouin prince .....'
I will feel very sorry for Indians the day they stop striving for more. Indian standard should not be the neighboring countries but they need to keep trying to be the best. It will take long time and one never knows how far they will go, but nothing wrong with trying. The journey is more fun than achieving goals.
"..... guys, let it go ! ..... you have made it - wipro, infosys, tata ... and mukesh is building a palace that will shame a bedouin prince .....'
I will feel very sorry for Indians the day they stop striving for more. Indian standard should not be the neighboring countries but they need to keep trying to be the best. It will take long time and one never knows how far they will go, but nothing wrong with trying. The journey is more fun than achieving goals.
#232 Posted by alice_in_spudland on June 1, 2008 12:55:12 pm
stuka:
just out of curiosity, why would a desi liking a black chick make them a "wannabe gora"?
*confused or suspicious ikaan*
just out of curiosity, why would a desi liking a black chick make them a "wannabe gora"?
*confused or suspicious ikaan*
#231 Posted by stuka on June 1, 2008 12:27:27 pm
"One thing is quite clear from this discussion on "whiteness", these peons of the West, white wannabes really need to learn how to drive..."
HAHA..That was funny..i don't think whiteness has anything to do with being peon of the west..goras get tans while desis use Fair and Lovely. Any desi who likes Kaali chicks is a wannabe gora. Any desi who likes gori chicks is being himself.
HAHA..That was funny..i don't think whiteness has anything to do with being peon of the west..goras get tans while desis use Fair and Lovely. Any desi who likes Kaali chicks is a wannabe gora. Any desi who likes gori chicks is being himself.
#230 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 12:16:22 pm
Re: # 213
tahmed mian,
.... no, i don't carry an umbrella but maybe i should ...... i just walked in after playing eighteen holes of golf and mrs hamidm and the girls went, "eeeoww, you look like a kala indian !" .......
.........and last weekend when i asked the girls to help me plant the begonias and impatiens, mrs hamidm told the girls, "khabardar! rung kala ho jai ga" ..... the girls quickly agreed and told me to take my twenty dollars, add another eighty, and hire a mexican ...... "stop acting like a cheap paki uncle; we don't want to look like a lama!" (lama is a code word for indian around my household) ...... so i ended up grovelling in the dirt for three hours, planting ten flats of flowers all by lonesome myself (they did bring me some lemonade) ....... my back hurt for three days and, needless to say, it didn't help my complexion ........ next time i am hiring a mexican - that's what god made them for and to hell with lou dobbs !
tahmed mian,
.... no, i don't carry an umbrella but maybe i should ...... i just walked in after playing eighteen holes of golf and mrs hamidm and the girls went, "eeeoww, you look like a kala indian !" .......
.........and last weekend when i asked the girls to help me plant the begonias and impatiens, mrs hamidm told the girls, "khabardar! rung kala ho jai ga" ..... the girls quickly agreed and told me to take my twenty dollars, add another eighty, and hire a mexican ...... "stop acting like a cheap paki uncle; we don't want to look like a lama!" (lama is a code word for indian around my household) ...... so i ended up grovelling in the dirt for three hours, planting ten flats of flowers all by lonesome myself (they did bring me some lemonade) ....... my back hurt for three days and, needless to say, it didn't help my complexion ........ next time i am hiring a mexican - that's what god made them for and to hell with lou dobbs !
#229 Posted by dost_mittar on June 1, 2008 11:51:44 am
tahmed#211:
"hamidm #211 do you run for the shade when the sun comes out to protect your gora skin? (just curious)"
It's the opposite, tahmed sahib. We darkies always walk on the shady side of the street. Haven't you heard the Indian endlish saying, "Only englishmen and dogs go out in the sun".
"hamidm #211 do you run for the shade when the sun comes out to protect your gora skin? (just curious)"
It's the opposite, tahmed sahib. We darkies always walk on the shady side of the street. Haven't you heard the Indian endlish saying, "Only englishmen and dogs go out in the sun".
#228 Posted by alice_in_spudland on June 1, 2008 11:21:13 am
addendum:
unless we're sell-outs, that is. :)
unless we're sell-outs, that is. :)
#227 Posted by alice_in_spudland on June 1, 2008 11:13:24 am
tahmed saab:
i'm going to assume this question was for me, and you didn't make a mistake with the numbering.
i've never been stopped for speeding since i don't drive, thus never ticketed as a gori but i'll have to ask my abba, brothers and sister! ;)
joking about gorapan is all well and good, but there are goras who think we are goray like them when they're spouting off about "darkies" only until we transgress. and then we're the "other" we've always been. :)
i'm going to assume this question was for me, and you didn't make a mistake with the numbering.
i've never been stopped for speeding since i don't drive, thus never ticketed as a gori but i'll have to ask my abba, brothers and sister! ;)
joking about gorapan is all well and good, but there are goras who think we are goray like them when they're spouting off about "darkies" only until we transgress. and then we're the "other" we've always been. :)
#226 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 11:05:27 am
#224 did you ever get mistaken for a gora, like hamidm and stuka?
#225 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 11:04:40 am
#221 stuka: but..Hamidm can walk like a gora too on the golf course. Can you do that??
#222 Posted by masadi on June 1, 2008 10:56:54 am
One thing is quite clear from this discussion on "whiteness", these peons of the West, white wannabes really need to learn how to drive...
#221 Posted by stuka on June 1, 2008 9:46:10 am
".... when my daughter got her first speeding ticket the policemen wrote down 'white' in the race box since she didn't qualify as african-american, asian, native american or any of those other privelaged groups ........ she was so thrilled by it that she stuck it on the refrigerator and couldn't stop talking about it ! ........ i doubt very much a head wagging indian could have pulled that off .......
"
HamidM: Same thing happened to me..in the west port area of St Louis. The cop asked me if I was Latino..and wrote White when I said no. :)
"
HamidM: Same thing happened to me..in the west port area of St Louis. The cop asked me if I was Latino..and wrote White when I said no. :)
#220 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 8:48:25 am
#211 Posted by hamidm2 ,
Hamidm2 bro, I have to say that, that one particular post of tahmed's was worth more than a thousands of yours .... !!!!
Hamidm2 bro, I have to say that, that one particular post of tahmed's was worth more than a thousands of yours .... !!!!
#219 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 8:47:57 am
can't have a kashmir ban gaya pakistan because of the bomb party without streamers...
after all, who knows if they'll still have party decorations a few hundred years from now...did you ever see streamers on the starship enterprise? neither did I..
after all, who knows if they'll still have party decorations a few hundred years from now...did you ever see streamers on the starship enterprise? neither did I..
#218 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 8:43:23 am
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#217 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:39:29 am
hamidm: as follow-up question to #213 (both asked in the spirit of anthropological inquiry)
When going out under the sun, do you carry that little umbrella over your head (like the chinese ladies) as well?
When going out under the sun, do you carry that little umbrella over your head (like the chinese ladies) as well?
#215 Posted by HP on June 1, 2008 8:31:02 am
#210
For an Indian what a Gora wrote would always be a word of god No surprises there. Find some more and we can have fun with you all day long... cricket match looks good but it is for just a few hours... Bring it on joker!
For an Indian what a Gora wrote would always be a word of god No surprises there. Find some more and we can have fun with you all day long... cricket match looks good but it is for just a few hours... Bring it on joker!
#214 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 8:29:59 am
Re: # 212; tahmed
yes there are sikhs with surnames the same as mine
and I am a Pakistani (with no pakistani documents though)....was born in England......I thought that was well known here since many people asked me and I replied...correctly
yes there are sikhs with surnames the same as mine
and I am a Pakistani (with no pakistani documents though)....was born in England......I thought that was well known here since many people asked me and I replied...correctly
#213 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:28:48 am
hamidm #211 do you run for the shade when the sun comes out to protect your gora skin? (just curious)
#212 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:26:34 am
#209 cheema sahib: that "indian agent" was just a joke, doctor sahib.
"cheema" is a common pakistani name. so i just assumed you were from pakistan. out of curiosity - are there sikhs and/or hindus with the last name "cheema" as well? if so, is it some kind of a tribe?
"cheema" is a common pakistani name. so i just assumed you were from pakistan. out of curiosity - are there sikhs and/or hindus with the last name "cheema" as well? if so, is it some kind of a tribe?
#211 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 8:24:30 am
zeemax,
.... please return tahmed to his village and stop encouraging him unless you want another romair on our hands ..
.... by the way, where is romair? ..... i hope the code coolies of bangalore haven't taken him prisoner to benefit from his superior managment skills .......
#210 Posted by AlephNull on June 1, 2008 8:24:21 am
zeemax #206:
Oh, I agree with the quoted paragraph ... I think it is spot on. Instead of fretting about who said it, please consider the extent to which it is accurate (no matter how damaging to your personal and national self-esteem).
Oh, I agree with the quoted paragraph ... I think it is spot on. Instead of fretting about who said it, please consider the extent to which it is accurate (no matter how damaging to your personal and national self-esteem).
#209 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 8:22:42 am
Re: # 207; tahmed
whatever do you mean by that sir?
whatever do you mean by that sir?
#208 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 8:21:08 am
Re: # 202
alephnull,
... it is exactly because of people like you that i threw the best bomb party ever (people are still talking about it!) ..... and if i could remember when this yom-i-takbeer thing was i would throw a party every year to piss off my hindoo friends .....
..... look mian, it doesn't matter if pakistan has the 'across the board strenghts' to match its nuclear capability; neither did india when it exploded its veggie bum ..... we need the bum to make sure the bania brigade does not get draw the knife from its deodrant-less armpit ....... and then there is the kashmir issue that has to be settled
alephnull,
... it is exactly because of people like you that i threw the best bomb party ever (people are still talking about it!) ..... and if i could remember when this yom-i-takbeer thing was i would throw a party every year to piss off my hindoo friends .....
..... look mian, it doesn't matter if pakistan has the 'across the board strenghts' to match its nuclear capability; neither did india when it exploded its veggie bum ..... we need the bum to make sure the bania brigade does not get draw the knife from its deodrant-less armpit ....... and then there is the kashmir issue that has to be settled
#207 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:15:29 am
#205 cheema sahib: well..knock me over with a feather!! You are an indian agent sir?!!
#206 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 8:15:15 am
#198/200 Posted by AlephNull
If you lift something from any Stephen Philip Cohen or anyone else and quote it, it usually means you agree with it unless you place a disclaimer.
You can't get away with the oft-used lame excuses of ignoramuses.
If you lift something from any Stephen Philip Cohen or anyone else and quote it, it usually means you agree with it unless you place a disclaimer.
You can't get away with the oft-used lame excuses of ignoramuses.
#205 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 8:12:51 am
Re: # 201; tahmed sir
they can't do that sir....I was never a Pakistani citizen and wasn't born there....similarities are purely co-incidental!
they can't do that sir....I was never a Pakistani citizen and wasn't born there....similarities are purely co-incidental!
#204 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:12:26 am
#202 we have been round this circle before.
Pakis used borrowed technology. While the Indians geniuses invented the atom bomb all by themselves. Happy?
Pakis used borrowed technology. While the Indians geniuses invented the atom bomb all by themselves. Happy?
#203 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:09:46 am
zeemax #96 What an honor!! I would like to use this opportunity to thank Hamidm for the inspiration he provided for this. :-)
#202 Posted by AlephNull on June 1, 2008 8:07:50 am
I thought those paragraphs provided an excellent concise summary of the way in which the bomb fatally deformed Pakistanis' self-image and clouded their political judgment. Pakistan, a country without strengths across the board to balance its purported nuclear weapon capability (however acquired), has come to lean too heavily on the bomb to provide that which it could not. Shooting the messenger (be he Hunood or Yahood) will not solve any of Pakistan's problems.
#201 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:07:27 am
#197 cheema sahib: dont try to get the courts to free any pakistani fishermen while in india while you are there - theyll kick you out of the country (as they did to poor Burney yesterday).
#200 Posted by AlephNull on June 1, 2008 8:06:05 am
[The previous post got garbled. My apologies ...]
Re. zeemax, tahmed32, hamidm2 #various:
Venerable Pakistani uncles:
You may notice that the first line of #165 said:
{{Quoted without attribution (for now)}}
Those paragraphs were lifted bodily from Stephen Philip Cohen's 'The Idea of Pakistan' (published by Brookings Institution Press in September 2004), pp 80-81. The section in question is entitled 'Nuclear Weapons and Pakistan's Identity'. The ellipses are mine, but nothing has been omitted that radically alters the thrust of those paragraphs.
Cohen is an American who has been visiting, studying and writing about the subcontinent for the better past of four decades. He may be a scheming Yahood (judging by his name), but to the best of my knowledge he is not a smoldering monkey-man from India.
Re. zeemax, tahmed32, hamidm2 #various:
Venerable Pakistani uncles:
You may notice that the first line of #165 said:
{{Quoted without attribution (for now)}}
Those paragraphs were lifted bodily from Stephen Philip Cohen's 'The Idea of Pakistan' (published by Brookings Institution Press in September 2004), pp 80-81. The section in question is entitled 'Nuclear Weapons and Pakistan's Identity'. The ellipses are mine, but nothing has been omitted that radically alters the thrust of those paragraphs.
Cohen is an American who has been visiting, studying and writing about the subcontinent for the better past of four decades. He may be a scheming Yahood (judging by his name), but to the best of my knowledge he is not a smoldering monkey-man from India.
#198 Posted by AlephNull on June 1, 2008 8:03:33 am
Re. zeemax, tahmed32, hamidm2 #various:
Venerable Pakistani uncles:
You may notice that the first line of #165 said:
{{Quoted without attribution (for now)}}
Those paragraphs were lifted bodily from Stephen Philip Cohen's
Venerable Pakistani uncles:
You may notice that the first line of #165 said:
{{Quoted without attribution (for now)}}
Those paragraphs were lifted bodily from Stephen Philip Cohen's
#197 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 8:02:38 am
Re: # 195; tahmed
I am not in your travel guide "hundred things to do before you die" sir!
anyhow...mitti pow
Bali....no; planning to visit India soon though
I am not in your travel guide "hundred things to do before you die" sir!
anyhow...mitti pow
Bali....no; planning to visit India soon though
#196 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 8:01:16 am
#180 Posted by tahmed32
Haha ... If I may tahmed Sahib, I'm going to add this to favourite intercats Sir!
Doggone it, Hamidm is good enough
He may be a boozer
A lota-worshipping loser
But..doggone it Hamid is good enough!!
He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey
But..doggone it our man's good enough!!
Haha ... If I may tahmed Sahib, I'm going to add this to favourite intercats Sir!
Doggone it, Hamidm is good enough
He may be a boozer
A lota-worshipping loser
But..doggone it Hamid is good enough!!
He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey
But..doggone it our man's good enough!!
#195 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 8:00:07 am
thanks for the invitation cheema sahib. i hope to do that before i die. closest i came was bali - ever been there?
#194 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:56:44 am
Re: # 191; tahmed
as for my part...it was a joke; hamidm sahib can speak for himself
tahmed sahib....that invitation to come 'downunder' and have a few bevvies....and to lighten up etc still stands ....I am game if you are
as for my part...it was a joke; hamidm sahib can speak for himself
tahmed sahib....that invitation to come 'downunder' and have a few bevvies....and to lighten up etc still stands ....I am game if you are
#193 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:55:12 am
cheema sahib: i kind of like the color of my brown skin. what is wrong with me?
#192 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:52:27 am
#190 monkeyman: i hear when monkey mom's want to frighten their kids, they say "no banana for you tonight!!" is that true?
#191 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:49:48 am
#187 Hamidm: I feel sorry for your daughter too, then. Really.
#190 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 7:36:35 am
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#189 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:34:41 am
Re: # 187; hamidm sahib
Amen to that too sir!
I am a "pakka" caucasian myself!...my daughter thinks I got sunburnt as a child!! and she is only seven
Children can be very perceptive I reckon
Amen to that too sir!
I am a "pakka" caucasian myself!...my daughter thinks I got sunburnt as a child!! and she is only seven
Children can be very perceptive I reckon
#188 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 7:31:45 am
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#187 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 7:28:11 am
Re: # 182
cheema sahib,
.... when my daughter got her first speeding ticket the policemen wrote down 'white' in the race box since she didn't qualify as african-american, asian, native american or any of those other privelaged groups ........ she was so thrilled by it that she stuck it on the refrigerator and couldn't stop talking about it ! ........ i doubt very much a head wagging indian could have pulled that off .......
...... needless to say, i am happy to live in a country where i can call myself white and get away with it ....... however, 'white' remains a state of mind that is beyond the reach of most brown or black people and muslims in particular ......
cheema sahib,
.... when my daughter got her first speeding ticket the policemen wrote down 'white' in the race box since she didn't qualify as african-american, asian, native american or any of those other privelaged groups ........ she was so thrilled by it that she stuck it on the refrigerator and couldn't stop talking about it ! ........ i doubt very much a head wagging indian could have pulled that off .......
...... needless to say, i am happy to live in a country where i can call myself white and get away with it ....... however, 'white' remains a state of mind that is beyond the reach of most brown or black people and muslims in particular ......
#186 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:27:11 am
Re: # 185
aha..there you are....found my glasses....sorry hamidm sahib, you weren't talking to me afterall..(sigh of relief)
Khuda Hafiz
aha..there you are....found my glasses....sorry hamidm sahib, you weren't talking to me afterall..(sigh of relief)
Khuda Hafiz
#185 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:24:11 am
Re: # 183; hamidm sahib
".... your village is looking for you ! "
sorry ....is that directed towards me!! where are my glasses dear?
I am no village idiot hamidm sahib....and I resent the insinuation
".... your village is looking for you ! "
sorry ....is that directed towards me!! where are my glasses dear?
I am no village idiot hamidm sahib....and I resent the insinuation
#184 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:21:58 am
Re: # 181; tahmed
"is it true that india used the formula for developing the atom bomb as provided in the mahabharata?"
My understanding is that Arjun is a fellow non-believer; hence religious taunts are not going to have an affect here.
Same as they don't affect me ...in the opposite direction of course
you have to be more creative here tahmed sahib!
"is it true that india used the formula for developing the atom bomb as provided in the mahabharata?"
My understanding is that Arjun is a fellow non-believer; hence religious taunts are not going to have an affect here.
Same as they don't affect me ...in the opposite direction of course
you have to be more creative here tahmed sahib!
#183 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 7:20:16 am
Re: # 180
tahmed,
.... your village is looking for you !
tahmed,
.... your village is looking for you !
#182 Posted by akcheema on June 1, 2008 7:18:39 am
Re: # 180; tahmed
"He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey"
I always thought hamidm sahib was white?!!
"He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey"
I always thought hamidm sahib was white?!!
#181 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:17:54 am
#179 monkeyman: is it true that india used the formula for developing the atom bomb as provided in the mahabharata?
#180 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:15:52 am
hamidm: I think you need that good advice you are giving to Indians yourself as well. Repeat after me:
Doggone it, Hamidm is good enough
He may be a boozer
A lota-worshipping loser
But..doggone it Hamid is good enough!!
He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey
But..doggone it our man's good enough!!
Doggone it, Hamidm is good enough
He may be a boozer
A lota-worshipping loser
But..doggone it Hamid is good enough!!
He may be born a paki
A non-gora darkey
But..doggone it our man's good enough!!
#179 Posted by _arjun4 on June 1, 2008 7:14:01 am
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#178 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 7:08:10 am
#174 zeemax: No doubt this man has talent. However, he has some problems too: 1. He is a self-promoter: e.g. Samar Mubarakmand was project leader of the Chagai test - AQ Khan was not even invited there until he begged PAEC to let him witness. And after the test, the first thing he did was to hold a press conference to give the impression that he was responsible for the test. Dr. Munir (chairman) is another unsung hero - a humble man who never sought the limelight. And countless other brave and talented Pakistanis who did their part despite relentless opposition from around the world.
2. He jeopardized Pakistan's nuclear defense for personal gain: There is no question he used Pakistan's national assets for personal gain. Using PAF planes to fly nuclear parts to Libya (which also had nuclear ambitions at one time) e.g.
3. Others involved in Pakistan's defense are head and shoulders above him in intellectual depth The other day he was claiming to be of pathan descent. Anyone whose mind goes along such lines of has to be intellectually shallow. On the other hand, I heard Dr. Samar Mabarakmand who clearly had great strategic vision and common sense in these matters. People I know personally in the scientific community are similarly far wiser than anything I have seen coming out of Khan.
2. He jeopardized Pakistan's nuclear defense for personal gain: There is no question he used Pakistan's national assets for personal gain. Using PAF planes to fly nuclear parts to Libya (which also had nuclear ambitions at one time) e.g.
3. Others involved in Pakistan's defense are head and shoulders above him in intellectual depth The other day he was claiming to be of pathan descent. Anyone whose mind goes along such lines of has to be intellectually shallow. On the other hand, I heard Dr. Samar Mabarakmand who clearly had great strategic vision and common sense in these matters. People I know personally in the scientific community are similarly far wiser than anything I have seen coming out of Khan.
#176 Posted by ahmedmadani on June 1, 2008 7:03:10 am
Re: # 164 Everybody in same boat and price of oil rising soon to 200 dollars mr.Arjun ( not you) indian market analyst says. Now this man said 1.5 years ago oil will hit 130 and people laughed. It is serious problem for every body including Pakistan and all.
Silverlineing is soon Mr. Z and NS ( are both together) going to Kingdom of S.Arabia and friendly muslim countries and soon better terms for oil purchase. Have you heard SOF. Probably not which Saudi Oil Facilities will give of almost 2 billion dollars concession per year. This system was going for years but under general things economically went to good for better and was stopped.
Now I do not except India to get such things. Now NS is very important man for additional reason. The king knows him personally , he has helped Saudi steel industry lot. I have heard he owns reroller plant there in east portion of country. He uses gas to be burnt from oil wells as fuel so one of cheapest producer of steel in world. I have India is in trouble and no gas as now arab countries are getting tired of late paying and delaying paid bills by Indian oil companies. King of Arabia once lamented he helps India but how long arabs can carry burden as one arab professor said "India will be ALWAYS developing country". Even afghan president once remarked his is second worst job in world when asked he said obviously P.M of India is 1st worst job in World. I want good for india but they are producing misery by smuggling cheap wheat from pakistan which deepens problems.
Any way oil price is all cause of problems. Even usa is in trouble even great country of china. Only oil rich muslim countries ( 66% of exportable oil is muslim) and russia is doing good. The way it is soon people will not travel as much as before. USA is doomed as all things are based on oli, cheap exploited arab oil. That cheap oil tap of usa is closeing. Indian economy and stocks are going down also I noted. It is silly all are going down. All passengers sitting in bus and is dropping 200 ft from cliff no point in claiming I have better sit in bus. All no so smart. I read things are getting tough for india in kashmir. FF ( freedom fighers) are tightening and cornering indian army and is in offensive mood. Pakistan army will wait for proper situation. Like slow pipening mango it will just come down , nothing need to be done. At proper time just little shake by pakistani army and air force and ripen mango will be in laps. Pateience is virtue. It is now waiting game,it will be atleast 10 years around2018 is time line. It gives time for consolidation of democracy in in all provinces and b.stan problem will be taken over. OIl starved india with life line of IPI and TAPI controlled by rulers of pakistan no much effort will be needed the mango falls ripe .
Arjun its now waiting game and we will wait tilltime comes.
Good night. Soon rains , I hate rains in Karachi all mess due to water.
Silverlineing is soon Mr. Z and NS ( are both together) going to Kingdom of S.Arabia and friendly muslim countries and soon better terms for oil purchase. Have you heard SOF. Probably not which Saudi Oil Facilities will give of almost 2 billion dollars concession per year. This system was going for years but under general things economically went to good for better and was stopped.
Now I do not except India to get such things. Now NS is very important man for additional reason. The king knows him personally , he has helped Saudi steel industry lot. I have heard he owns reroller plant there in east portion of country. He uses gas to be burnt from oil wells as fuel so one of cheapest producer of steel in world. I have India is in trouble and no gas as now arab countries are getting tired of late paying and delaying paid bills by Indian oil companies. King of Arabia once lamented he helps India but how long arabs can carry burden as one arab professor said "India will be ALWAYS developing country". Even afghan president once remarked his is second worst job in world when asked he said obviously P.M of India is 1st worst job in World. I want good for india but they are producing misery by smuggling cheap wheat from pakistan which deepens problems.
Any way oil price is all cause of problems. Even usa is in trouble even great country of china. Only oil rich muslim countries ( 66% of exportable oil is muslim) and russia is doing good. The way it is soon people will not travel as much as before. USA is doomed as all things are based on oli, cheap exploited arab oil. That cheap oil tap of usa is closeing. Indian economy and stocks are going down also I noted. It is silly all are going down. All passengers sitting in bus and is dropping 200 ft from cliff no point in claiming I have better sit in bus. All no so smart. I read things are getting tough for india in kashmir. FF ( freedom fighers) are tightening and cornering indian army and is in offensive mood. Pakistan army will wait for proper situation. Like slow pipening mango it will just come down , nothing need to be done. At proper time just little shake by pakistani army and air force and ripen mango will be in laps. Pateience is virtue. It is now waiting game,it will be atleast 10 years around2018 is time line. It gives time for consolidation of democracy in in all provinces and b.stan problem will be taken over. OIl starved india with life line of IPI and TAPI controlled by rulers of pakistan no much effort will be needed the mango falls ripe .
Arjun its now waiting game and we will wait tilltime comes.
Good night. Soon rains , I hate rains in Karachi all mess due to water.
#175 Posted by hamidm2 on June 1, 2008 6:34:48 am
Re: # 172
doggone it, i'm good enough
..... it really surprises me that inspite of all the progress the horrible hindoos have made in the last ten years, they are still as insecure as stuart smalley ..... maybe it has to do something with subsisting on vegetables and defecating on railroad tracks .......
..... guys, let it go ! ..... you have made it - wipro, infosys, tata ... and mukesh is building a palace that will shame a bedouin prince ....... so what if half your folks are running around half naked (maybe that has something to do with the fashion trend established by the mahatama) and the other half is starving and emaciated (don't tell me that has something to do with the mahatma diet!) ........ the fact of the matter is that india might not be shining but it is doing a lot better than the pathetic pakis who don't even have a railroad track to squat on since sheikh rashid left office ......
...... so take a deep breath, look in the mirror and say:
i might be a vegetarian and not have a indoor toilet,
i might be running around naked and squatting on railroad tracks
but, i'm good enough, i'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!
and when i look at a paki i say, there but for the grace of god, go i
doggone it, i am a horrible hindoo and good enough
doggone it, i'm good enough
..... it really surprises me that inspite of all the progress the horrible hindoos have made in the last ten years, they are still as insecure as stuart smalley ..... maybe it has to do something with subsisting on vegetables and defecating on railroad tracks .......
..... guys, let it go ! ..... you have made it - wipro, infosys, tata ... and mukesh is building a palace that will shame a bedouin prince ....... so what if half your folks are running around half naked (maybe that has something to do with the fashion trend established by the mahatama) and the other half is starving and emaciated (don't tell me that has something to do with the mahatma diet!) ........ the fact of the matter is that india might not be shining but it is doing a lot better than the pathetic pakis who don't even have a railroad track to squat on since sheikh rashid left office ......
...... so take a deep breath, look in the mirror and say:
i might be a vegetarian and not have a indoor toilet,
i might be running around naked and squatting on railroad tracks
but, i'm good enough, i'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!
and when i look at a paki i say, there but for the grace of god, go i
doggone it, i am a horrible hindoo and good enough
#174 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 6:31:38 am
#173 Posted by tahmed32,
LoL ... yeah maybe he got plastic surgery ...
But seriously, this modifying dual-use equipment by AQ Khan were quite extraordinary. True mark of a genius.
BTW, after the nukes, he reverse-engineered pilot-less intelligence aircraft as well when he was fired and the project was delayed. It has only been completed only a short while ago.
LoL ... yeah maybe he got plastic surgery ...
But seriously, this modifying dual-use equipment by AQ Khan were quite extraordinary. True mark of a genius.
BTW, after the nukes, he reverse-engineered pilot-less intelligence aircraft as well when he was fired and the project was delayed. It has only been completed only a short while ago.
#173 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 6:23:28 am
zeemax: i hear that AQ Khan is actually a chinese man wearing a holloween mask. is that true?
#172 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 6:06:14 am
#169 Posted by nkg,
China supplied equipment for nuke facilities in Pakistan ...is pecreived as the main source of equipment for A Q Khan network.
Well read some more reports, and authentic ones this time. Like how the manufacturing facilities in Malaysia were exporting centrifuge tubes for textile industry use, and were named in the AQ Khan investigation, not any Chinese firms.
Making such equipment needs good industrial base with good material processing. Design alone is not sufficient.
That's correct. Pakistan acquired that expertise through reverse engineering and AQ Khan started manufacturing centrifuges a long time ago in his labs.
China supplied equipment for nuke facilities in Pakistan ...is pecreived as the main source of equipment for A Q Khan network.
Well read some more reports, and authentic ones this time. Like how the manufacturing facilities in Malaysia were exporting centrifuge tubes for textile industry use, and were named in the AQ Khan investigation, not any Chinese firms.
Making such equipment needs good industrial base with good material processing. Design alone is not sufficient.
That's correct. Pakistan acquired that expertise through reverse engineering and AQ Khan started manufacturing centrifuges a long time ago in his labs.
#171 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 5:55:26 am
nkg: Is it true that the indian atom bomb was built using mathematical formulas described in the vedas?
#170 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 5:53:50 am
zeemax #168 of course the chagai tunnel was dug using special techniques described in the mahabharata. it was done by an indian company because we all know pakistan does not have the expertise. :-)
#169 Posted by nkg on June 1, 2008 5:43:31 am
ZeeMax, Alpha, Arjun...
Arjun...
High oil price has put both the countries in mat. I am not sure about the quantum of Pakistan, but India is sure hit very badly. In current situation, from medium economy countries Brazil, Russia and China is doing well, along with oil producing countries...
Alpha/Zee...
Zee may, be whatever Alpha is claiming is due to wrong perception (I am also driven by similar perception). Apart from the nuke test and enrichment facility, do you have research labs dedicated to nuclear physics?
China supplied equipment for nuke facilities in Pakistan and other states. I have read that from a report, and is pecreived as the main source of equipment for A Q Khan network. Making such equipment needs good industrial base with good material processing. Design alone is not sufficent.
US Navy wants India to join them to monitor Malacca straigt, such that China can not send any cuh equipment in future...
Ahmed...
USA do not hate India. If so, why they will initiate this strategic partnership issue with India. India do not trust China. But its dubious record made it suspectable to EU, Russia and USA. I have no regret that we do not have friendly relationship with China.
Arjun...
High oil price has put both the countries in mat. I am not sure about the quantum of Pakistan, but India is sure hit very badly. In current situation, from medium economy countries Brazil, Russia and China is doing well, along with oil producing countries...
Alpha/Zee...
Zee may, be whatever Alpha is claiming is due to wrong perception (I am also driven by similar perception). Apart from the nuke test and enrichment facility, do you have research labs dedicated to nuclear physics?
China supplied equipment for nuke facilities in Pakistan and other states. I have read that from a report, and is pecreived as the main source of equipment for A Q Khan network. Making such equipment needs good industrial base with good material processing. Design alone is not sufficent.
US Navy wants India to join them to monitor Malacca straigt, such that China can not send any cuh equipment in future...
Ahmed...
USA do not hate India. If so, why they will initiate this strategic partnership issue with India. India do not trust China. But its dubious record made it suspectable to EU, Russia and USA. I have no regret that we do not have friendly relationship with China.
#168 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 5:42:33 am
#167 Posted by tahmed32,
Yes, but this twisting of facts by Indians is quite disgusting. They probably think the testing tunnel was dug up, instrumentation labs lined up inside it, and devices and triggers in place in two weeks flat by the Chinese as well.
Yes, but this twisting of facts by Indians is quite disgusting. They probably think the testing tunnel was dug up, instrumentation labs lined up inside it, and devices and triggers in place in two weeks flat by the Chinese as well.
#167 Posted by tahmed32 on June 1, 2008 5:29:35 am
zeemax: dont worry about these smoldering men from india - we all know aleph null invented the atom bomb and arjun invented the internet. ;-)
#166 Posted by zeemax on June 1, 2008 4:05:41 am
#165 Posted by AlephNull
... most of the technology was either stolen from a European nuclear facility or provided by China.
This is nonsense. All that AQ Khan got from Netherlands was centrifuge design blueprints. That doesn't constitute technology. The actual parts and equipment required were identified in dual-use industrial components and imported legally into Pakistan from western countries with valid export authorizations. Give me one instance where any country has levied a smuggling charge on Pakistan. All these dual-use components were modified locally to adapt to nuclear use by local technicians. This uniquely 'modified' dual-use reprocessing technology was what AQ Khan is accused of having marketed since he was the only one who possessed it.
The Chinese assistance was in Missile development (i.e. conventional) and not in nuclear.
... most of the technology was either stolen from a European nuclear facility or provided by China.
This is nonsense. All that AQ Khan got from Netherlands was centrifuge design blueprints. That doesn't constitute technology. The actual parts and equipment required were identified in dual-use industrial components and imported legally into Pakistan from western countries with valid export authorizations. Give me one instance where any country has levied a smuggling charge on Pakistan. All these dual-use components were modified locally to adapt to nuclear use by local technicians. This uniquely 'modified' dual-use reprocessing technology was what AQ Khan is accused of having marketed since he was the only one who possessed it.
The Chinese assistance was in Missile development (i.e. conventional) and not in nuclear.
#165 Posted by AlephNull on June 1, 2008 2:08:37 am
Quoted without attribution (for now):
“The weapons program ... had several important consequences. For one thing, it led the army to think of ways in which it could actively put pressure on India by interfering in Indian politics ... For another, both civilian and military officials put the nuclear program at the center of public propaganda, and a personality cult grew up around A Q Khan after his role was revealed in 1992. ... The belief grew, especially after 1990, that the nuclear program proved the greatness of Pakistan's science and technology, and that Pakistan had assumed its rightful place as the most advanced Muslim country. The bomb confirmed the sought-for image of Pakistan as combining Islam and technology, never mind that most of the technology was either stolen from a European nuclear facility or provided by China.
The nuclear program thus warped judgments about Pakistan's real strengths and weaknesses. The truth was that Pakistan's bomb program was a triumph of espionage and assistance from a friendly power, not the product of a technologically advanced state. For purposes of deterrence and war fighting the difference is unimportant, but in the context of Pakistan's deeper security, political, and social problems, the bomb made it possible to perpetuate the delusion that this was a technologically advanced country. Strategically, it enabled Pakistan to put off the day of reckoning with India, by providing the appearance of equality between the two states.
The bomb was thought of as a magic bullet that could resolve any problems. It even united Pakistanis politically as a symbol of defiance of both India and the West – if Pakistan could stand up to both forces and prevail, there was no limit to what the country could do. ..... In contrast, other new nuclear states such as China, Israel, and India, did not allow the bomb to change their basic strategies or to warp their domestic politics.�
“The weapons program ... had several important consequences. For one thing, it led the army to think of ways in which it could actively put pressure on India by interfering in Indian politics ... For another, both civilian and military officials put the nuclear program at the center of public propaganda, and a personality cult grew up around A Q Khan after his role was revealed in 1992. ... The belief grew, especially after 1990, that the nuclear program proved the greatness of Pakistan's science and technology, and that Pakistan had assumed its rightful place as the most advanced Muslim country. The bomb confirmed the sought-for image of Pakistan as combining Islam and technology, never mind that most of the technology was either stolen from a European nuclear facility or provided by China.
The nuclear program thus warped judgments about Pakistan's real strengths and weaknesses. The truth was that Pakistan's bomb program was a triumph of espionage and assistance from a friendly power, not the product of a technologically advanced state. For purposes of deterrence and war fighting the difference is unimportant, but in the context of Pakistan's deeper security, political, and social problems, the bomb made it possible to perpetuate the delusion that this was a technologically advanced country. Strategically, it enabled Pakistan to put off the day of reckoning with India, by providing the appearance of equality between the two states.
The bomb was thought of as a magic bullet that could resolve any problems. It even united Pakistanis politically as a symbol of defiance of both India and the West – if Pakistan could stand up to both forces and prevail, there was no limit to what the country could do. ..... In contrast, other new nuclear states such as China, Israel, and India, did not allow the bomb to change their basic strategies or to warp their domestic politics.�
#164 Posted by _arjun4 on May 31, 2008 10:02:45 pm
madani sahab: what's up with this?
Economic growth to hit five-year low
Fiscal deficit at 7pc to further fuel inflation if govt does not stop borrowing from central bank; high oil import bill nullified export growth; targeted subsidy through ration cards suggested
Sunday, June 01, 2008
By Saad Hasan
KARACHI: Pakistan’s economic growth will slow down to a five-year low in the outgoing fiscal year, dragged down by a poor wheat harvest and slump in manufacturing output, the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) has forecast.
Real GDP growth in fiscal 2007-08 has been estimated lower between 5.5 and 6 per cent against the budgeted target of 7.2 per cent while an all-time high current account deficit of 7.3-7.8 per cent is projected in the quarterly report for January-March period released on Saturday.
Food inflation, which leaves a disproportionately high impact on poor, has remained in double digits during the third quarter and future outlook is dismal in view of the increase in food transportation cost after upward revision in fuel prices.
“There is a need to take necessary administrative measures to protect low-income households by providing targeted subsidy to them through ration cards, utility stores or through students of public schools,� the central bank said.
Full year fiscal deficit at a high of 6.5 - 7 percent threatens to further fuel inflation if government did not divert its borrowing sources away from central bank, SBP has again cautioned.
Though exports grew by 10.2 percent during July-April 2007-08, country’s trade deficit has swelled to record $16.8 billion due to huge import bill.
Economic growth to hit five-year low
Fiscal deficit at 7pc to further fuel inflation if govt does not stop borrowing from central bank; high oil import bill nullified export growth; targeted subsidy through ration cards suggested
Sunday, June 01, 2008
By Saad Hasan
KARACHI: Pakistan’s economic growth will slow down to a five-year low in the outgoing fiscal year, dragged down by a poor wheat harvest and slump in manufacturing output, the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) has forecast.
Real GDP growth in fiscal 2007-08 has been estimated lower between 5.5 and 6 per cent against the budgeted target of 7.2 per cent while an all-time high current account deficit of 7.3-7.8 per cent is projected in the quarterly report for January-March period released on Saturday.
Food inflation, which leaves a disproportionately high impact on poor, has remained in double digits during the third quarter and future outlook is dismal in view of the increase in food transportation cost after upward revision in fuel prices.
“There is a need to take necessary administrative measures to protect low-income households by providing targeted subsidy to them through ration cards, utility stores or through students of public schools,� the central bank said.
Full year fiscal deficit at a high of 6.5 - 7 percent threatens to further fuel inflation if government did not divert its borrowing sources away from central bank, SBP has again cautioned.
Though exports grew by 10.2 percent during July-April 2007-08, country’s trade deficit has swelled to record $16.8 billion due to huge import bill.
#163 Posted by ahmedmadani on May 31, 2008 9:48:21 pm
Re: # 160 Arjun 4 you have real problem lack of imagination.
Even child will understand that what is meant by that USA, china on Pakistani side.
Also you must note I was sleepy aND EVEN MENTIONED BY BRAIN WAS NOT WORKING AT THAT. bUT YOU SJHOULD Use your head when you read my posting. I have little problem in this things and expect little use of brain by readers.
Is it too much to ask. Now I do not claim to have good english, there is some problem in small way. Hope you read useing little common sense.
Good day a;ll people
Even child will understand that what is meant by that USA, china on Pakistani side.
Also you must note I was sleepy aND EVEN MENTIONED BY BRAIN WAS NOT WORKING AT THAT. bUT YOU SJHOULD Use your head when you read my posting. I have little problem in this things and expect little use of brain by readers.
Is it too much to ask. Now I do not claim to have good english, there is some problem in small way. Hope you read useing little common sense.
Good day a;ll people
#162 Posted by Ras on May 31, 2008 7:51:46 pm
RE: #126 Posted by tahir
Hum say Kehtay Hain Chaman Waalay
Gharibaan-e-Chaman
Koi Accha Sa Rakh Lo
Apnay Veeranay Ka Naam
(Faiz)
#161 Posted by _arjun4 on May 31, 2008 2:57:36 pm
=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts
view this users filtered interacts
#160 Posted by _arjun4 on May 31, 2008 1:40:15 pm
#159 Posted by ahmedmadani on May 31, 2008 11:44:35 am
usa on american side
the USA will be on american side!!
phew!! that's a relief..
usa on american side
the USA will be on american side!!
phew!! that's a relief..
#159 Posted by ahmedmadani on May 31, 2008 11:44:35 am
Re: # 157 Nanga reer.... Forget about that. Indians need to teach better morals when young even punish them so they behave.
As a starting point how about becoming decent with naga peer replaced by clothed peer.
Just indecent people. good night.
Kashmir is problem and if indians do not make adjustment and handover to settlement acceptable to pakistan. You want war you will get it. With China , usa on american side no soviet union will be tough for india and india will be defeated. Also now nepal joining on pakistan side. All decks stacked against india. Once western borders stabilized pakistan army will start paying attention to eastern border. With durand line question put on backburner and present A.Stan has become strategic depth for india. Once that depth is shortened india will be in trouble. One way ticket to afghan and pakistani talib way tyo India you have problem n,eans big problem. It is still time to give and take but once pakistan nuclear attack on India and sergical air attacks by american f-16 neutralize all russian junk in air of india thrust drive will begin followed by talibs marching on India and destruction of indian army in 8 weeks leading kashmir, flexible adjuststent and down sizing of india, what arjum write little stories of poor boys all happening over in pakistan. The speed is getting critical. It is like jumbo jet it starts slow but builts up and then take off. Same happening here. Some problems here and there but always utherust towards progress. India is problem, too any religions, castes, and languages. Sikhs on way to Sikhstan, tamil for tamilistan, kashmir lost some time back. Things are disintegrating for india, its sorry state there people dieing for shortage of food and water and air. India is squeezed from all sides, china, pakistan, bangladesh, Nepal and lanka all want destructiuono findia due to oppressive attitude against minority, women , dalits, muslims , christian, low cate hinbdus and aasanmmis. People killing each other due to languages. All caste war going. Just bad situation. Hope it survives up to 2012. All major powers China , usa hate india. Indian economy is falling down in ferr fall, no food and water for masses.
Good day bye , I am really sleepy feeling and stock down feel bad. Good day hope stocks pick up newweek day. Bye
As a starting point how about becoming decent with naga peer replaced by clothed peer.
Just indecent people. good night.
Kashmir is problem and if indians do not make adjustment and handover to settlement acceptable to pakistan. You want war you will get it. With China , usa on american side no soviet union will be tough for india and india will be defeated. Also now nepal joining on pakistan side. All decks stacked against india. Once western borders stabilized pakistan army will start paying attention to eastern border. With durand line question put on backburner and present A.Stan has become strategic depth for india. Once that depth is shortened india will be in trouble. One way ticket to afghan and pakistani talib way tyo India you have problem n,eans big problem. It is still time to give and take but once pakistan nuclear attack on India and sergical air attacks by american f-16 neutralize all russian junk in air of india thrust drive will begin followed by talibs marching on India and destruction of indian army in 8 weeks leading kashmir, flexible adjuststent and down sizing of india, what arjum write little stories of poor boys all happening over in pakistan. The speed is getting critical. It is like jumbo jet it starts slow but builts up and then take off. Same happening here. Some problems here and there but always utherust towards progress. India is problem, too any religions, castes, and languages. Sikhs on way to Sikhstan, tamil for tamilistan, kashmir lost some time back. Things are disintegrating for india, its sorry state there people dieing for shortage of food and water and air. India is squeezed from all sides, china, pakistan, bangladesh, Nepal and lanka all want destructiuono findia due to oppressive attitude against minority, women , dalits, muslims , christian, low cate hinbdus and aasanmmis. People killing each other due to languages. All caste war going. Just bad situation. Hope it survives up to 2012. All major powers China , usa hate india. Indian economy is falling down in ferr fall, no food and water for masses.
Good day bye , I am really sleepy feeling and stock down feel bad. Good day hope stocks pick up newweek day. Bye
#158 Posted by mabdullah on May 31, 2008 11:43:54 am
The bomb day or the so called yom-e-takbeer was celebrated by the supporters of PML-N in some parts of Punjab. What was the reaction in the province where this test was carried out?
Do we care? In the name of democracy....
http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com
Do we care? In the name of democracy....
http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com
#157 Posted by NangaPir on May 31, 2008 11:08:45 am
And Nanga wrote about kargil a decade ago:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nanga...@aol.com (NangaPir)
Date: 1999/07/12
Subject: KARGIL BALANCE SHEET by NANGA PIR
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
The "fun part" is over. It is time to do some accounting. Kargil made winners,
losers, heros and horeses asses.
THE WINNERS:
Whoever was on those mountains proved that mighty Indian army completely
failed to push those Mujahideens back. Even today after 3 months (since May 8)
Indians could only claim one sector that was vacated by intruders. The fact is
that Indian army fully realized and made statements that those mountians will
be vacated by September means 'clearing them is impossible'. September is the
time that no body can survive them in harsh snow. That is why Indians begged US
and world powers to mediate. Indians were ready to attack Pakistan on
international border. And Indians knew that Pakistan can use nukes. But Indians
also knew that their troops in North will starve for sure. The truth is that
South Asia was at the brink of nuclear war. The winners are in descending
order.
WINNERS:
1. MUJAHIDEEN. Mujahideens proved that they can bring Indian armed forces to
thier knees. This will not only encourage them but also 15 other sepratist
movements in India for armed struggle. They got new recognition and status.
2. INDIAN CIVILIAN RULERS: It proved that Pakistan, though militarily in the
best position, was diplomatically in the worst position. Even Saudi Arabia and
Iran not to speak of China couldnot come in open to support Pakistan. This
shows how effective Indians are in diplomacy and lobbying. Wars are fought for
political agenda. If you lose in politics and win on ground the end result is
"not winning". Indians messages to the families of Pakistani soldiers and the
reports of honorable burials etc. (who knows even they are true) will
definitely change the common person tones about India in Pakistan (and alienate
about rulers in Pakistan) provided the message got through well.
3. PAKISTAN ARMY: General Musshraff last minute statement "there is no question
of retreat" was a very calculated statement. Now army will tell people, "we won
the war but it were the politicians who lost it on table". Army will try its
best to regain its image first time in 28 years.
LOSERS:
1. NAWAZ SHRIEF: No doubt that all major players have their intersts at stake
with the victory of Mujahideens. Shrief, as I wrote couple months ago, do not
want Mujahideens to win. But he will plan so that they do not appear to be
loser. No matter what assurances he got from Clinton or Vajpayee (and who cares
about these secret assurances) he has an uphill fight may be worse than what
Indian army was upto in Kargil.
2. INDIAN ARMY: Could not be worse than this time. Their conflicting stories
need no comment. Their mounting casualities and their lame excuses exposed that
they are a third rate army. Indian army has insurrmountable task ahead if it
has to keep with the rest of the world and its nuclear-Mujahid neighbors.
SUFFERING OF PEOPLE:
WORST:
KASHMIRIS, INDIANS AND PAKISTANIS. Kashmiris sacrificed their lives, land,
wealth and honor. They live in a hell. Indians spent over Rs. 10 crors per day
in Kargil sector alone. Pakistan, as a economic colony of the rest of the
world, got worse in economic field.
NEXT:
If Indians and Pakistanis fail to effectively address the issue of Kashmir they
are doomed to failure and the winner will be fundamentalists. Kashmir issue is
very complex. Will see you after a month or so.
Regards
Nanga Pir
ANY DOUBT?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nanga...@aol.com (NangaPir)
Date: 1999/07/12
Subject: KARGIL BALANCE SHEET by NANGA PIR
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
The "fun part" is over. It is time to do some accounting. Kargil made winners,
losers, heros and horeses asses.
THE WINNERS:
Whoever was on those mountains proved that mighty Indian army completely
failed to push those Mujahideens back. Even today after 3 months (since May 8)
Indians could only claim one sector that was vacated by intruders. The fact is
that Indian army fully realized and made statements that those mountians will
be vacated by September means 'clearing them is impossible'. September is the
time that no body can survive them in harsh snow. That is why Indians begged US
and world powers to mediate. Indians were ready to attack Pakistan on
international border. And Indians knew that Pakistan can use nukes. But Indians
also knew that their troops in North will starve for sure. The truth is that
South Asia was at the brink of nuclear war. The winners are in descending
order.
WINNERS:
1. MUJAHIDEEN. Mujahideens proved that they can bring Indian armed forces to
thier knees. This will not only encourage them but also 15 other sepratist
movements in India for armed struggle. They got new recognition and status.
2. INDIAN CIVILIAN RULERS: It proved that Pakistan, though militarily in the
best position, was diplomatically in the worst position. Even Saudi Arabia and
Iran not to speak of China couldnot come in open to support Pakistan. This
shows how effective Indians are in diplomacy and lobbying. Wars are fought for
political agenda. If you lose in politics and win on ground the end result is
"not winning". Indians messages to the families of Pakistani soldiers and the
reports of honorable burials etc. (who knows even they are true) will
definitely change the common person tones about India in Pakistan (and alienate
about rulers in Pakistan) provided the message got through well.
3. PAKISTAN ARMY: General Musshraff last minute statement "there is no question
of retreat" was a very calculated statement. Now army will tell people, "we won
the war but it were the politicians who lost it on table". Army will try its
best to regain its image first time in 28 years.
LOSERS:
1. NAWAZ SHRIEF: No doubt that all major players have their intersts at stake
with the victory of Mujahideens. Shrief, as I wrote couple months ago, do not
want Mujahideens to win. But he will plan so that they do not appear to be
loser. No matter what assurances he got from Clinton or Vajpayee (and who cares
about these secret assurances) he has an uphill fight may be worse than what
Indian army was upto in Kargil.
2. INDIAN ARMY: Could not be worse than this time. Their conflicting stories
need no comment. Their mounting casualities and their lame excuses exposed that
they are a third rate army. Indian army has insurrmountable task ahead if it
has to keep with the rest of the world and its nuclear-Mujahid neighbors.
SUFFERING OF PEOPLE:
WORST:
KASHMIRIS, INDIANS AND PAKISTANIS. Kashmiris sacrificed their lives, land,
wealth and honor. They live in a hell. Indians spent over Rs. 10 crors per day
in Kargil sector alone. Pakistan, as a economic colony of the rest of the
world, got worse in economic field.
NEXT:
If Indians and Pakistanis fail to effectively address the issue of Kashmir they
are doomed to failure and the winner will be fundamentalists. Kashmir issue is
very complex. Will see you after a month or so.
Regards
Nanga Pir
ANY DOUBT?
#156 Posted by NangaPir on May 31, 2008 11:07:46 am
And Nanga wrote about his End almost a decade ago:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nanga...@aol.com (NangaPir)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:14:21 GMT
Local: Thurs, Apr 12 2001 12:14 am
Subject: MUSHRAFF'S END WORSE THAN BHUTTO+ZIA by NANGA
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
And it is coming to its fruitation. Military made a dramatic planning to
capture power in Oct 1999. It was blessed by the CIA as no Pakistani officer
can rise above the rank of Bragadier without the permission of the CIA station
incharge in Islamabad. Mushraff is no exception.
We know, that like scores of other thugs, he crossed Indo-Pak border pennyless
and today he owns billion of Rs. He has about dozen homes in Pakistan while his
only and lonely son is in the USA. He came to clean up the country and wants to
stay till dirt is not gone. And the biggest dirt maker are the officer
themselves. We learnt that Ayub did the same. He ordered trains to run on time
and adulterers dumpped their groceries by early morning. At the end when the
account was wrapped up armed forces robbed the country more than 22 billion
dollars. And Yahya came to the rescue. By the time he left we were left with
half the country in less than 2 years. And the traditions continued with Zia
with his wife running drug trade with United Bank Manager GHQ branch and his
son now billionaire. Then Nawaz Shrief kept the pot of corruption boiling with
supplemental services rendered by Benazir and her Mr. 30% husband.
Now Gen. Mushraff got orders to take off his uniform and get closer to Bhutto
to form the next governement to rid Pakistan of fundamentalists. In fact
Benazir Bhutto and Gen. Mushraff are separate in public but bedfellow in
private. This will not work my dear soldier.
General Mushraff vision of Disco Socialism will go down the tube worse than
Bhutto. A society that runs on values and traditions can not be mecahnically
moulded to suit the western imperialist needs. Our armed forces along with our
bureaucracy have been serving western interests than its own masses is no
secret from anybody.
Mushraff, like all previous rulers of Pakistan, dead or alive, are very much
eager to establish good relations with India. America wants that to control
China. He seems almost begging everyday to just hold talks with Indian leaders.
Why? It is very natural. Even today, after so many generations, there are
Italian Americans and Irish Americans, and there are German Americans, and
there are African Americans and of course Pakistani Americans and Indian
Americans. This is the natural link no force can sever. Only there are
hypocrates who deny it. By the same token every ruler in Pakistan was very much
eager to establish friendly relationship with India while playing Indian
monster to strengthen their tenure. Ayub Khan who was from Frontier is a unique
example. He was the only ruler not from India or so called Hindustani but he
was too eager to share bed with Indians as his brought up was in Aligarh and
Agra. He was Indian by British army. Nawaz Shrief was very eager to trade his
sugar and Benazir Bhutto is eager to visit her aunty's grave and her
grandmother's home? Mushraff is very much eager to talk and sell electricity to
India though Indians donot spare a shoe for him. And right next to Islamabad
are the native Pakistanis who are begging for electricity.
To whom these rulers are fooling? Mushraff's future will be worse than Bhutto
and Zia combined. He is mere an addition to Hindustani rulers in Pakistan who
are more faithful to their ancestral land then the place they live and made
billions. And if you shit in the same pot where you eat you are doomed.
We need a real nationalist tough government comprised on local masses. Mushraff
has caused so much damage to Kashmiri people by falling into Indian trap. India
needed time to build barbed wire and to kill innocent Kashmiris and rape their
women. It may be ripe time for Pakistanis to look for simple but effective
force. May be once again from North West. And Mushraff and his disco socialist
team should know well that Americans seldom dare to save their watchdogs.
Nanga Pir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nanga...@aol.com (NangaPir)
Date: 12 Apr 2001 04:14:21 GMT
Local: Thurs, Apr 12 2001 12:14 am
Subject: MUSHRAFF'S END WORSE THAN BHUTTO+ZIA by NANGA
Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
And it is coming to its fruitation. Military made a dramatic planning to
capture power in Oct 1999. It was blessed by the CIA as no Pakistani officer
can rise above the rank of Bragadier without the permission of the CIA station
incharge in Islamabad. Mushraff is no exception.
We know, that like scores of other thugs, he crossed Indo-Pak border pennyless
and today he owns billion of Rs. He has about dozen homes in Pakistan while his
only and lonely son is in the USA. He came to clean up the country and wants to
stay till dirt is not gone. And the biggest dirt maker are the officer
themselves. We learnt that Ayub did the same. He ordered trains to run on time
and adulterers dumpped their groceries by early morning. At the end when the
account was wrapped up armed forces robbed the country more than 22 billion
dollars. And Yahya came to the rescue. By the time he left we were left with
half the country in less than 2 years. And the traditions continued with Zia
with his wife running drug trade with United Bank Manager GHQ branch and his
son now billionaire. Then Nawaz Shrief kept the pot of corruption boiling with
supplemental services rendered by Benazir and her Mr. 30% husband.
Now Gen. Mushraff got orders to take off his uniform and get closer to Bhutto
to form the next governement to rid Pakistan of fundamentalists. In fact
Benazir Bhutto and Gen. Mushraff are separate in public but bedfellow in
private. This will not work my dear soldier.
General Mushraff vision of Disco Socialism will go down the tube worse than
Bhutto. A society that runs on values and traditions can not be mecahnically
moulded to suit the western imperialist needs. Our armed forces along with our
bureaucracy have been serving western interests than its own masses is no
secret from anybody.
Mushraff, like all previous rulers of Pakistan, dead or alive, are very much
eager to establish good relations with India. America wants that to control
China. He seems almost begging everyday to just hold talks with Indian leaders.
Why? It is very natural. Even today, after so many generations, there are
Italian Americans and Irish Americans, and there are German Americans, and
there are African Americans and of course Pakistani Americans and Indian
Americans. This is the natural link no force can sever. Only there are
hypocrates who deny it. By the same token every ruler in Pakistan was very much
eager to establish friendly relationship with India while playing Indian
monster to strengthen their tenure. Ayub Khan who was from Frontier is a unique
example. He was the only ruler not from India or so called Hindustani but he
was too eager to share bed with Indians as his brought up was in Aligarh and
Agra. He was Indian by British army. Nawaz Shrief was very eager to trade his
sugar and Benazir Bhutto is eager to visit her aunty's grave and her
grandmother's home? Mushraff is very much eager to talk and sell electricity to
India though Indians donot spare a shoe for him. And right next to Islamabad
are the native Pakistanis who are begging for electricity.
To whom these rulers are fooling? Mushraff's future will be worse than Bhutto
and Zia combined. He is mere an addition to Hindustani rulers in Pakistan who
are more faithful to their ancestral land then the place they live and made
billions. And if you shit in the same pot where you eat you are doomed.
We need a real nationalist tough government comprised on local masses. Mushraff
has caused so much damage to Kashmiri people by falling into Indian trap. India
needed time to build barbed wire and to kill innocent Kashmiris and rape their
women. It may be ripe time for Pakistanis to look for simple but effective
force. May be once again from North West. And Mushraff and his disco socialist
team should know well that Americans seldom dare to save their watchdogs.
Nanga Pir
#155 Posted by NangaPir on May 31, 2008 11:06:16 am
#108 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 8:28:38 am
Re: # 96
Shaukat Aziz is out and disowned by his adopted party and Musharraf exit is getting closer by the hour. So lets be realistic and objective in our analysis, its very easy to kick the already fallen and pass the buck.
Nanga wrote about Mushraff in 1999 in soc culture Pakistan when Irmran Khan was his left testes (Khubba tetta) and Jamite Islami was his rectum that:
Subject: HOW GEN. MUSHRAFF ROBBED PAKISTAN
Date: 1999/11/03
Author: NangaPir
Mushraff crossed over to Pakistan in 1947 with 4 annas tucked in his arse. Today he is [a] billionaire. Here is the partial list of his land in Pakistan that is robbed from ...Pakistanis.
1. Karachi - Army Housing Scheme PT-2 underconstruction -value Rs. 225 million Rupees(Rs)
2. Karachi DHA 200 square feet [200x200?] land - value 1 million
3. Islamabad Margalla Housing Scheme 2 kanal land - value Rs. 27 million
4. Peshawar AWT Housing Scheme 1.5 kanal - value Rs. 8 million
5. LCCHS Lahore 8 marla plot - value Rs. 375,000
6. Bahawalpur 2 marabah agritulre land - value Rs. 350 million
7. F-7/3 home (on parents` name) - value Rs. 200 million
8. Karachi DHA - home on daughter`s name - value Rs. 175 million
9. Westridge, Rawalpindi, 1 kanal land - value Rs. 12 million
10. Sanghar Housing Scheme Gowdar 2 kanal plot Rs. 3 million
How much Indian Gen. Malik (of Indian Army) has land in India? Don`t we need Gen.Malik looking at this scene?
This is just land. His son is in USA and money in
Switzerland. Can he tell the nation (the dumb one who are robbed by everybody) how he made this money in Pakistan and how much he brought from India? He is a thug of first class.
Nanga Pir
Re: # 96
Shaukat Aziz is out and disowned by his adopted party and Musharraf exit is getting closer by the hour. So lets be realistic and objective in our analysis, its very easy to kick the already fallen and pass the buck.
Nanga wrote about Mushraff in 1999 in soc culture Pakistan when Irmran Khan was his left testes (Khubba tetta) and Jamite Islami was his rectum that:
Subject: HOW GEN. MUSHRAFF ROBBED PAKISTAN
Date: 1999/11/03
Author: NangaPir
Mushraff crossed over to Pakistan in 1947 with 4 annas tucked in his arse. Today he is [a] billionaire. Here is the partial list of his land in Pakistan that is robbed from ...Pakistanis.
1. Karachi - Army Housing Scheme PT-2 underconstruction -value Rs. 225 million Rupees(Rs)
2. Karachi DHA 200 square feet [200x200?] land - value 1 million
3. Islamabad Margalla Housing Scheme 2 kanal land - value Rs. 27 million
4. Peshawar AWT Housing Scheme 1.5 kanal - value Rs. 8 million
5. LCCHS Lahore 8 marla plot - value Rs. 375,000
6. Bahawalpur 2 marabah agritulre land - value Rs. 350 million
7. F-7/3 home (on parents` name) - value Rs. 200 million
8. Karachi DHA - home on daughter`s name - value Rs. 175 million
9. Westridge, Rawalpindi, 1 kanal land - value Rs. 12 million
10. Sanghar Housing Scheme Gowdar 2 kanal plot Rs. 3 million
How much Indian Gen. Malik (of Indian Army) has land in India? Don`t we need Gen.Malik looking at this scene?
This is just land. His son is in USA and money in
Switzerland. Can he tell the nation (the dumb one who are robbed by everybody) how he made this money in Pakistan and how much he brought from India? He is a thug of first class.
Nanga Pir
#154 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:49:54 am
#153 hamidm: this is your philosophy of hailing the rising sun..as applied to tornadoes.
#152 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:40:38 am
hamidm:
Tornado God Zindabad!! (they just issued a tornado warning so, learning from you like other chowkies, I am switching sides until the warning is lifted).
Tornado God Zindabad!! (they just issued a tornado warning so, learning from you like other chowkies, I am switching sides until the warning is lifted).
#151 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:38:48 am
cheema sahib now that you got me started on religion, :-) i would add that judaism and even greco-roman religions themselves borrowed a lot from earlier religions particularly mithraism (preceded zoroastrianism in persia), zoroastrianism (which establishd the manichaen good vs evil concept brought forward in the semitic religions), and ancient greece.
so - nothing new under the sun. everyone borrowed from one another, often from people they actually fought (romans adopted mithraism from their persian enemies, greeks and romans borrowed from egyptian gods and statues).
cheers.
Ahura Mazda Zindabad!!
Ahriman Murdabad!!
so - nothing new under the sun. everyone borrowed from one another, often from people they actually fought (romans adopted mithraism from their persian enemies, greeks and romans borrowed from egyptian gods and statues).
cheers.
Ahura Mazda Zindabad!!
Ahriman Murdabad!!
#150 Posted by hamidm2 on May 31, 2008 10:34:28 am
Re: # 145
tahmed,
..... whenever i would ask my father how come we had to suffer through load shedding even though our neighborhood was littered with retired generals, he would say, "retired jarnail, tay hazar karnail" .....
.... 250,000 retired subedars, plus a couple of hundred unemployable lawyers, plus a droopy eyed pco-1 suomoto-happy judge who has grown too big for his shalwar, do not equal one hazar jarnail (kiyani) plus one hazar badmash (zardari) ..... musharraf will leave, but he will leave on his own terms and the droopy eyed judge will go down in poker history as the joker who didn't matter even when jokers were wild ........
p.s. i am happy to note that the chowk public has accepted and adopted my description of the ocularly challenged judicial clown .......
tahmed,
..... whenever i would ask my father how come we had to suffer through load shedding even though our neighborhood was littered with retired generals, he would say, "retired jarnail, tay hazar karnail" .....
.... 250,000 retired subedars, plus a couple of hundred unemployable lawyers, plus a droopy eyed pco-1 suomoto-happy judge who has grown too big for his shalwar, do not equal one hazar jarnail (kiyani) plus one hazar badmash (zardari) ..... musharraf will leave, but he will leave on his own terms and the droopy eyed judge will go down in poker history as the joker who didn't matter even when jokers were wild ........
p.s. i am happy to note that the chowk public has accepted and adopted my description of the ocularly challenged judicial clown .......
#149 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 10:33:39 am
Re: # 148; tahmed
well sir....so long as you are 'confortable'...we aim to please!
Khuda Hafiz
well sir....so long as you are 'confortable'...we aim to please!
Khuda Hafiz
#148 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:30:23 am
#146 doctor sahib: sorry, i should have checked UP first.
anyway, thanks for reposting here. What you say about Judaism is certainly true - the jews were originally a group of tribes living in what is now lebanon who attacked the canaanites (who were none other than the phoenicians). So, this tribal streak is quite strong in judaism, missing in christianity and islam.
So, i will partly agree with you, i.e. islam vs judaism in terms of the "target market" (small tribal group in case of judaism, all mankind in case of Islam). On christianity vs Islam, while christianity was indeed originally targetted towards jews (indeed, jesus was part of a kind of "sect" within judaism that emphasizd love for one's fellow human beings), its acceptance by Constantine broadened the "market" to all people of the roman empire.
This is indeed an interesting distinction you make between judaism and islam which I had not thought about before. It is indeed this very universal view of islam that makes me very comfortable with the faith i was born into.
anyway, thanks for reposting here. What you say about Judaism is certainly true - the jews were originally a group of tribes living in what is now lebanon who attacked the canaanites (who were none other than the phoenicians). So, this tribal streak is quite strong in judaism, missing in christianity and islam.
So, i will partly agree with you, i.e. islam vs judaism in terms of the "target market" (small tribal group in case of judaism, all mankind in case of Islam). On christianity vs Islam, while christianity was indeed originally targetted towards jews (indeed, jesus was part of a kind of "sect" within judaism that emphasizd love for one's fellow human beings), its acceptance by Constantine broadened the "market" to all people of the roman empire.
This is indeed an interesting distinction you make between judaism and islam which I had not thought about before. It is indeed this very universal view of islam that makes me very comfortable with the faith i was born into.
#147 Posted by fahadist on May 31, 2008 10:15:30 am
Mr Hoodboy it seems you suffer from selective amnesia. I was here in Pakistan pre and post nuke and sorry the bunkers and gun totering para-military force was already there.
Violence was already there. The chopped off corpses in gunny bags in Karachi. The guns in student politics. The Baluchistan insurgency. The fighting in the tribal areas. The klashinkov culture and the drug trade. Generals going to Prime-minister's/president's house. What did not happen before 1998???
Sindhis were without jobs and water pre Chaghai and they were shouting for it to . Pathans wanted their province renamed and some even independence. So did the Balochis.
Mr Hoodbhoy it is good that you removed your "hood" from your eyes and ears and started taking notice of the world around you. But don't be fooled into believing that all what you see is the only truth. I would recommend reading some newspapers new and old as a good start!
Violence was already there. The chopped off corpses in gunny bags in Karachi. The guns in student politics. The Baluchistan insurgency. The fighting in the tribal areas. The klashinkov culture and the drug trade. Generals going to Prime-minister's/president's house. What did not happen before 1998???
Sindhis were without jobs and water pre Chaghai and they were shouting for it to . Pathans wanted their province renamed and some even independence. So did the Balochis.
Mr Hoodbhoy it is good that you removed your "hood" from your eyes and ears and started taking notice of the world around you. But don't be fooled into believing that all what you see is the only truth. I would recommend reading some newspapers new and old as a good start!
#146 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 10:14:18 am
Re: # 144; tahmed
I think I explained it well on UP; anyhow...
Judaism was/is a faith in one God Yahweh, the 'personal' God of the Israelites
Christianity was a Pauline invention...taking the 'word' to the 'pigs'....that was not Jesus's intention at all! Jesus was a Jew....his 'reforms' were meant to be FOR Jews...Love thy neighbour doesn't mean what it appears to mean...It means love thy fellow Jew...same for everything else
Look at the Ten Commandments; they are only applicable in ONE direction....an Israelite's conduct with other Israelites....hence, Thou shalt not kill = Thou shalt not kill another Israelite.....same doesn't apply to killing 'heathens' of course....it is just so parochial in its outlook
This doctrine was 'married up' with the existing Greco-Roman culture; with one stroke, the 'conversion' of Constantine paved the way to 'adopt' and 'christianise' all the relics of the past; all the icons were re-modelled in christian terms
Islam, on the other hand, commemorated its 'victory' by clearing the Kaaba of its idolatorous past...."Ja'al haqqa wa zahaqa baatil; Innal baatila kaana zahooqa".....that is the difference
I think I explained it well on UP; anyhow...
Judaism was/is a faith in one God Yahweh, the 'personal' God of the Israelites
Christianity was a Pauline invention...taking the 'word' to the 'pigs'....that was not Jesus's intention at all! Jesus was a Jew....his 'reforms' were meant to be FOR Jews...Love thy neighbour doesn't mean what it appears to mean...It means love thy fellow Jew...same for everything else
Look at the Ten Commandments; they are only applicable in ONE direction....an Israelite's conduct with other Israelites....hence, Thou shalt not kill = Thou shalt not kill another Israelite.....same doesn't apply to killing 'heathens' of course....it is just so parochial in its outlook
This doctrine was 'married up' with the existing Greco-Roman culture; with one stroke, the 'conversion' of Constantine paved the way to 'adopt' and 'christianise' all the relics of the past; all the icons were re-modelled in christian terms
Islam, on the other hand, commemorated its 'victory' by clearing the Kaaba of its idolatorous past...."Ja'al haqqa wa zahaqa baatil; Innal baatila kaana zahooqa".....that is the difference
#145 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:06:44 am
#143 the retired Servicemen's Association has announced it will join the lawyers after June 10. That is 250,000 additions - including former bosses of mush.
So - the "droopy-eyed CJ" has proved he could see more clearly than these ex-generals. Who, when serving, were too short-sighted to see that the long-term interest of the country was in their own long-term interest as well.
So - the "droopy-eyed CJ" has proved he could see more clearly than these ex-generals. Who, when serving, were too short-sighted to see that the long-term interest of the country was in their own long-term interest as well.
#144 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 10:01:52 am
cheema sahib: dont worry about being off-topic. chowk posters dont mind. so, what are your comments on para. 1?
#143 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 10:00:47 am
Re: # 142; rf786
that is if the droopy-eyed can 'see' where he has to go
that is if the droopy-eyed can 'see' where he has to go
#142 Posted by rf786 on May 31, 2008 9:42:24 am
Re: # 134
akcheema
Nawaz Sharif and droopy eyed Iftikher Chaudhry make a fine couple tangled in the number "69".
akcheema
Nawaz Sharif and droopy eyed Iftikher Chaudhry make a fine couple tangled in the number "69".
#141 Posted by mohar11 on May 31, 2008 9:16:17 am
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#140 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 8:40:15 am
Re: # 138; tahmed
this is probably not the right place for me to reply; though I'd like to Re: first para
second one....true
this is probably not the right place for me to reply; though I'd like to Re: first para
second one....true
#139 Posted by _arjun4 on May 31, 2008 8:39:29 am
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#138 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 8:37:09 am
akcheema: I just checked your reply on UP. I thought christianity was as open (and in fact much more so in many ways) to the common man as islam. After all, christian monks were travelling to africa, and later to asia and americas too, to spread the word to the common man. The weird concept of the Trinity in christianity does make it's monotheism as suspect as zardari's democracy, though.
Glad to see that you and self (and dost mittar too, I see from UP) are on the same page as far as some key issues are concerned - e.g. how religion is not a prerequisite for moral values.
Glad to see that you and self (and dost mittar too, I see from UP) are on the same page as far as some key issues are concerned - e.g. how religion is not a prerequisite for moral values.
#137 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 8:18:19 am
Re: # 136; tahmed
according to your IP, you think too much too
I left a reply on UP fyi
according to your IP, you think too much too
I left a reply on UP fyi
#136 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 8:16:55 am
#134 akcheema: we need to beware of short men..they think too much.
#135 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 8:12:33 am
dost-mittar: greetings. damn...you are right..looks like arjun has had his surreptitous on me as well. :-(
#134 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 8:12:16 am
Re: # 133; tahmed
apologies for the spelling mistake...happening a lot lately!
btw...Josephine was tall-ish too!
apologies for the spelling mistake...happening a lot lately!
btw...Josephine was tall-ish too!
#133 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 8:10:12 am
#131 doctor sahib: you mean waist, i assume...but then, napoleon was short too.
#132 Posted by dost_mittar on May 31, 2008 8:09:49 am
tahmed32:
"as i was told yesterday at a paki gathering"
So, you too have started using the "paki" word. I guess, I am the only holdout now. ;)
"as i was told yesterday at a paki gathering"
So, you too have started using the "paki" word. I guess, I am the only holdout now. ;)
#131 Posted by akcheema on May 31, 2008 8:05:19 am
Re: # 130; tahmed
he only needed to be waste high anyway
he only needed to be waste high anyway
#130 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 7:59:52 am
zeemax: is it true that zardari wears platform shoes with 3 inch soles and yet barely came up to his late wife's height as a result (as i was told yesterday at a paki gathering)?
#129 Posted by tahmed32 on May 31, 2008 7:56:27 am
hamidm: and who do you suggest we replace all these imperfect individuals with? Dick Cheney and Bush (who will soon become available for monkey business)? or perhaps with you (unless you get droopy eyed after your shot of booze..i mean your high class aperitif..as well)?
#128 Posted by zeemax on May 31, 2008 7:49:18 am
hamidm2,
You're getting incredibly boring. Disappointing Sir! Where is your creativity? You're being so repetitive ...
You're getting incredibly boring. Disappointing Sir! Where is your creativity? You're being so repetitive ...
#127 Posted by hamidm2 on May 31, 2008 7:31:12 am
of bums and bums
..... more often than not the bumbling pakis, most of whom are pathetic bums, get a bum deal ..... but the atom bum is the one thing that they have that is worth keeping to make sure the horrible bums across the border do not get on our bums .... you can never trust a railroad track squatting vegetarian who exposes his bum to the elements, or a man with the mark of the devil on his forehead who raises his bum to the heavens five times a day .......
.... the bums that need to be thrown out are the droopy-eyed cj, musharraf, zardari, nawaz sharif and the bum chasing mullahs ..... all these guys deserve a kick in the bum and should be sent packing ......... the atom bum, we will keep ......
#126 Posted by tahir on May 31, 2008 2:21:21 am
Re: # 124
Ras "Throw the Bum out!"
After YOUR government does just that, followed by other ex-colonial powers....
Ras "Throw the Bum out!"
After YOUR government does just that, followed by other ex-colonial powers....
#125 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 11:59:55 pm
Interesting editorial by The Dawn:
Resurrecting a ghost
DR A.Q. Khan is back in the news, retracting by implication the confessionary statement he made in 2004 and asserting that he was forced to make it. Given the political situation today, it is obvious who he was referring to when he said he was made to come on TV and read out the statement. Besides making happy those now going after President Pervez Musharraf’s skin, Dr Khan would be hard put to ascribe any other motive to his decision to break his silence and restart the debate on an awkward aspect of Pakistan’s nuclear programme. That he was the man who put Pakistan on the world’s nuclear map and many in the nation regard him as a hero goes without saying. However, for a scientist he had an unusual trait — he spoke too much. Scientists, scholars and researchers, especially those who work on sensitive projects, the world over keep a low profile. A scientist seeking publicity is like a judge turning himself into a political activist. This was, however, less of the grotesque in the metallurgist; the greater part of the anomaly lay in his alleged role as a disseminator of nuclear technology.
He has now told DawnNews TV he did not do anything that was ‘illegal or unauthorised’. Evidence that was described as incontrovertible was collected to show that Dr Khan indeed ran a clandestine network that tried to make technology for making nuclear weapons available to ambitious governments ranging from North Korea to Iran and Libya. It is true that Pakistan is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The legality or otherwise of his actions notwithstanding, now that he has chosen to break his silence 
It is not a secret that all aspects of the country’s nuclear programme have remained in the hands of the military. Therefore, the implication that his actions were not just his own assumes added significance at a time when some in the West are questioning Pakistan’s ability to keep its nuclear weapons secure. We won’t get into the debate here whether Pakistan is safer and stronger for having nuclear weapons. We would, however, say that most damage to the country in recent years, and more so in recent months, has not been done by any external enemy but by loose talk within. And it is time political leaders in and out of government, ex-generals, scientists and others just paused and thought through the consequences of their words before they so generously share them with everyon
Resurrecting a ghost
DR A.Q. Khan is back in the news, retracting by implication the confessionary statement he made in 2004 and asserting that he was forced to make it. Given the political situation today, it is obvious who he was referring to when he said he was made to come on TV and read out the statement. Besides making happy those now going after President Pervez Musharraf’s skin, Dr Khan would be hard put to ascribe any other motive to his decision to break his silence and restart the debate on an awkward aspect of Pakistan’s nuclear programme. That he was the man who put Pakistan on the world’s nuclear map and many in the nation regard him as a hero goes without saying. However, for a scientist he had an unusual trait — he spoke too much. Scientists, scholars and researchers, especially those who work on sensitive projects, the world over keep a low profile. A scientist seeking publicity is like a judge turning himself into a political activist. This was, however, less of the grotesque in the metallurgist; the greater part of the anomaly lay in his alleged role as a disseminator of nuclear technology.
He has now told DawnNews TV he did not do anything that was ‘illegal or unauthorised’. Evidence that was described as incontrovertible was collected to show that Dr Khan indeed ran a clandestine network that tried to make technology for making nuclear weapons available to ambitious governments ranging from North Korea to Iran and Libya. It is true that Pakistan is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. The legality or otherwise of his actions notwithstanding, now that he has chosen to break his silence 
It is not a secret that all aspects of the country’s nuclear programme have remained in the hands of the military. Therefore, the implication that his actions were not just his own assumes added significance at a time when some in the West are questioning Pakistan’s ability to keep its nuclear weapons secure. We won’t get into the debate here whether Pakistan is safer and stronger for having nuclear weapons. We would, however, say that most damage to the country in recent years, and more so in recent months, has not been done by any external enemy but by loose talk within. And it is time political leaders in and out of government, ex-generals, scientists and others just paused and thought through the consequences of their words before they so generously share them with everyon
#123 Posted by _arjun3 on May 30, 2008 5:28:05 pm
First it was the pakiwhacker drones...now it's the apaches..
US helicopters violate Pak airspace
MIRANSHAH: Two United States helicopters intruded over the Pakistani area of Shawaal near the Pak-Afghan border on Friday. The helicopters hovered over the area, which is 70 kilometres west of Miranshah, for around 40 minutes before returning to the Afghan side without taking any action. According to residents, US drones have been violating into Pakistani airspace everyday. staff report
US helicopters violate Pak airspace
MIRANSHAH: Two United States helicopters intruded over the Pakistani area of Shawaal near the Pak-Afghan border on Friday. The helicopters hovered over the area, which is 70 kilometres west of Miranshah, for around 40 minutes before returning to the Afghan side without taking any action. According to residents, US drones have been violating into Pakistani airspace everyday. staff report
#122 Posted by stuka on May 30, 2008 3:02:07 pm
something is cooking in Pak. Last time US reitirated support for a Pakistani leader, there was a coup within a week
Bush phones Pakistan's Musharraf to reiterate backing Fri May 30, 11:00 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush offered renewed backing on Friday for Pakistan during a telephone call he made to its president, Pervez Musharraf, who was trying to quash rumors that he plans to leave office.
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"The president reiterated the United States' strong support for Pakistan and he indicated he looked forward to President Musharraf's continuing role in further strengthening U.S.-Pakistani relations," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.
Bush phones Pakistan's Musharraf to reiterate backing Fri May 30, 11:00 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush offered renewed backing on Friday for Pakistan during a telephone call he made to its president, Pervez Musharraf, who was trying to quash rumors that he plans to leave office.
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"The president reiterated the United States' strong support for Pakistan and he indicated he looked forward to President Musharraf's continuing role in further strengthening U.S.-Pakistani relations," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.
#121 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 1:45:43 pm
#120 rf: that is a factual statement i made, and by no stretch of imagination can it be construed as an ethnic insult.
the rest of your post is a continuation of the same empty accusations, not anything i said, so i wont waste time with it.
last post. have a good day.
the rest of your post is a continuation of the same empty accusations, not anything i said, so i wont waste time with it.
last post. have a good day.
#120 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 1:19:07 pm
Re: # 119
(not "better", but more assertive: there are no "wadera jails" for debt-ridden punjabi civil society members as there are for sindhi peasants. )
Small example of your chauvinism. Whenever issues regarding other ethnicities arise you have demonstrated a clear bias may that be the killing fields in Baluchistan, SIndh, Karachi or FATA. Like I said b4, you sir are the moral elitists, defenders of the establishment, slave to your conditioned prejudices.
As for the family claim, that again shows your frustrated personality and exposes your lack of basic manners.
Finally, make up your mind whether u wish to respond to my posts or not, I am getting bored with this yes, yes, no, no bitching.
(not "better", but more assertive: there are no "wadera jails" for debt-ridden punjabi civil society members as there are for sindhi peasants. )
Small example of your chauvinism. Whenever issues regarding other ethnicities arise you have demonstrated a clear bias may that be the killing fields in Baluchistan, SIndh, Karachi or FATA. Like I said b4, you sir are the moral elitists, defenders of the establishment, slave to your conditioned prejudices.
As for the family claim, that again shows your frustrated personality and exposes your lack of basic manners.
Finally, make up your mind whether u wish to respond to my posts or not, I am getting bored with this yes, yes, no, no bitching.
#119 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 12:41:16 pm
#116 the reason i dont want to waste time with you is obvious from your post.
You write: "You accuse me of being abusive" as if I am wrong in saying this. This is what you had written:
rf #107 ..nor are we looking for your paindoo biased answers, sole purpose is to expose your chutyapa. Referring to someone's ethnicity in disparaging terms, and using filthy language, may not have been considered abusive in the household you were raised in.
You then write a lengthy para. accusing me of being ethnically biased among other evils. Back your words with anything I have written that strikes you as being ethnically biased and then come talk to me. Unless you can substantiate any of your accusations, I suggest you stop wasting your time and mine addressing posts to me. It is not arrogance - it is simply that I dont come to chowk to exchange accusations with strangers, and would rather spend it exchanging posts with individuals with something interesting to write.
You write: "You accuse me of being abusive" as if I am wrong in saying this. This is what you had written:
rf #107 ..nor are we looking for your paindoo biased answers, sole purpose is to expose your chutyapa. Referring to someone's ethnicity in disparaging terms, and using filthy language, may not have been considered abusive in the household you were raised in.
You then write a lengthy para. accusing me of being ethnically biased among other evils. Back your words with anything I have written that strikes you as being ethnically biased and then come talk to me. Unless you can substantiate any of your accusations, I suggest you stop wasting your time and mine addressing posts to me. It is not arrogance - it is simply that I dont come to chowk to exchange accusations with strangers, and would rather spend it exchanging posts with individuals with something interesting to write.
#118 Posted by _arjun3 on May 30, 2008 12:16:30 pm
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#117 Posted by Urstruly on May 30, 2008 11:55:24 am
Re: # 115
hey get your own yom-e-takbeer; don't stench this place.
hey get your own yom-e-takbeer; don't stench this place.
#116 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 11:37:29 am
Re: # 111
Dear tahmed32
Instead of trying to respond with objective arguments you always resort to the usual tactics of slant and slander. You accuse me of being abusive, read your comments, they smell of Punjabi chauvinism, arrogance and lack any form of objectivity. You Sir, are the classic immoral elitist who has no substance or truth to back his views thus resorts to infantile statements.
Dear tahmed32
Instead of trying to respond with objective arguments you always resort to the usual tactics of slant and slander. You accuse me of being abusive, read your comments, they smell of Punjabi chauvinism, arrogance and lack any form of objectivity. You Sir, are the classic immoral elitist who has no substance or truth to back his views thus resorts to infantile statements.
#115 Posted by _arjun3 on May 30, 2008 10:23:37 am
Uh-oh..the plan to bleed india in kashmir while hiding behind the bomb isn't going so well...
Indian economy boomed at 9% in 2007-08
May 30, 2008 11:24 IST
India's GDP grew by 9 per cent in 2007-08 as compared to advance estimate of 8.7 per cent.
GDP grew by 8.8 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2007-08 as compared to 9.7 per cent in the corresponding period previous fiscal.
Indian economy boomed at 9% in 2007-08
May 30, 2008 11:24 IST
India's GDP grew by 9 per cent in 2007-08 as compared to advance estimate of 8.7 per cent.
GDP grew by 8.8 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2007-08 as compared to 9.7 per cent in the corresponding period previous fiscal.
#114 Posted by _arjun3 on May 30, 2008 10:05:36 am
#102 Posted by NangaPir on May 30, 2008 8:12:04 am
It protects against external invasions.
Right.
the bomb protects india from external invasions..like if pakiland tried to make a grab for indian kashmir
also, the bomb won't help pakiland in it's stated ultimate goal..the wresting of india from kashmir..now while pakis with their usual dishonesty will deny that ever was a goal, past statements clearly show otherwise...
it's like 1965 all over again..Pakiland started that war with the objective of wresting kashmir from the cowardly hindoos and only ended saving lahore...yet they spin that around as some heroic defensive action against an enemy that launched an attack against them...
the usual paki SOP...not only moving the goal posts when they're failing but changing the rules of the game all together...
we saw it in kargil too..the purpose was to do a reverse siachen and hold that as a bargaining chip..when that didn't go so well - as is obvious from the abandoned bodies of the paki soldiers that're slowly rotting even now - the objective became to bring international focus on the kashmir issue...
It protects against external invasions.
Right.
the bomb protects india from external invasions..like if pakiland tried to make a grab for indian kashmir
also, the bomb won't help pakiland in it's stated ultimate goal..the wresting of india from kashmir..now while pakis with their usual dishonesty will deny that ever was a goal, past statements clearly show otherwise...
it's like 1965 all over again..Pakiland started that war with the objective of wresting kashmir from the cowardly hindoos and only ended saving lahore...yet they spin that around as some heroic defensive action against an enemy that launched an attack against them...
the usual paki SOP...not only moving the goal posts when they're failing but changing the rules of the game all together...
we saw it in kargil too..the purpose was to do a reverse siachen and hold that as a bargaining chip..when that didn't go so well - as is obvious from the abandoned bodies of the paki soldiers that're slowly rotting even now - the objective became to bring international focus on the kashmir issue...
#113 Posted by banneditem on May 30, 2008 10:00:10 am
Little Litle boys figting in a tub of cess called chowk.
As Prof Neembu says:UKPs
Boys how about Brains instead of Bombs BIOBs slogan plastered all over little india (pakistan).
As Prof Neembu says:UKPs
Boys how about Brains instead of Bombs BIOBs slogan plastered all over little india (pakistan).
#112 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 9:40:54 am
#110 anil: we do indeed have great talent in both hamidm and echoboom and they are more fun to read (all of the time in case of hamidm, some of the time for echoboom).
but..so much talent wasted on such poorly formed political views. a dictator-loving lota on the one hand, a khilafat-loving matka on the other :-)
but..so much talent wasted on such poorly formed political views. a dictator-loving lota on the one hand, a khilafat-loving matka on the other :-)
#111 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 9:37:57 am
rf#109 most paindoos (villagers) have more dignity than someone like you who can only write abuse. there is much that even a 10 year old from a pind could teach you.
#110 Posted by anil on May 30, 2008 8:32:40 am
Re: # 86
Hamidm sahib:
You write better than Salman Rushdie can, he made jokers, not jackass fall from the sky. Jokers, Jackass, desert great setting. I lodge my protest on your choice of names, echo sahib has one of the finest taste for Indian music.
Don't you think you should be the one after Padma-Lakshmi? She dumped him, you know.
Hamidm sahib:
You write better than Salman Rushdie can, he made jokers, not jackass fall from the sky. Jokers, Jackass, desert great setting. I lodge my protest on your choice of names, echo sahib has one of the finest taste for Indian music.
Don't you think you should be the one after Padma-Lakshmi? She dumped him, you know.
#109 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 8:32:03 am
Re: # 107
We are well aware of your narrow minded vision of life, nor are we looking for your paindoo biased answers, sole purpose is to expose your chutyapa.
We are well aware of your narrow minded vision of life, nor are we looking for your paindoo biased answers, sole purpose is to expose your chutyapa.
#108 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 8:28:38 am
Re: # 96
nangapir
With reference to the steel mil deal.
Steel mill deal may have been dubious but this argument regarding value of land is based on appraised values with little or no actual comparative prices to support this argument.
As for the port qasim, it is a separate entity therefore I am not sur what your point there is.
Shaukat Aziz is out and disowned by his adopted party and Musharraf exit is getting closer by the hour. So lets be realistic and objective in our analysis, its very easy to kick the already fallen and pass the buck.
nangapir
With reference to the steel mil deal.
Steel mill deal may have been dubious but this argument regarding value of land is based on appraised values with little or no actual comparative prices to support this argument.
As for the port qasim, it is a separate entity therefore I am not sur what your point there is.
Shaukat Aziz is out and disowned by his adopted party and Musharraf exit is getting closer by the hour. So lets be realistic and objective in our analysis, its very easy to kick the already fallen and pass the buck.
#107 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:24:08 am
#104/105: i dont read posts from fish in a barrel.
#106 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:22:47 am
#102 Nanga Pir: True on role of nukes as strategic defense only. However, fata/swat are not "people's struggles". The people's struggle is in Pakistan, against musharraf. These are merely armed bands seeking to impose their rule and views by force on the poor people of these areas. It is the PPP/ANP's mistake to let them get away with this.
#105 Posted by harimau on May 30, 2008 8:21:24 am
Ref Mullah32 #103
[BI: you are confusing cause and affect - the bomb changed india's tune from advani's jingoism to his boss's recognition of pakistan as a separate state.]
Yo mullah, India recognized Pakistan as a separate state on Aug 14, 1947. There have been an exchange of ambassadors (high commissioners) between the two countries since that day.
Got any other crap to peddle on Chowk? Maybe something about Islam being a religion of peace?
[BI: you are confusing cause and affect - the bomb changed india's tune from advani's jingoism to his boss's recognition of pakistan as a separate state.]
Yo mullah, India recognized Pakistan as a separate state on Aug 14, 1947. There have been an exchange of ambassadors (high commissioners) between the two countries since that day.
Got any other crap to peddle on Chowk? Maybe something about Islam being a religion of peace?
#104 Posted by rf786 on May 30, 2008 8:19:18 am
Re: # 78
tahmed32
M A Jinnah sat with the colonial power, worked with them and won liberation using their set laws. Even then, there were idiots like Maududi and others who condemned Jinnah for dealing with the colonialists. JInnah was a good politician and Zardari is trying to do the same, find a political solution. Was'nt your new prophet the droopy eyed Ex-CJ=IC sitting with Zardari, non-elected person who had his case pending with the supreme court? Then again, the CJ is of true Punjab blood thus is forgiven and praised rather than being condemned.
Hamidm2 is right when he says Pakistanis in general are hypocrites.
tahmed32
M A Jinnah sat with the colonial power, worked with them and won liberation using their set laws. Even then, there were idiots like Maududi and others who condemned Jinnah for dealing with the colonialists. JInnah was a good politician and Zardari is trying to do the same, find a political solution. Was'nt your new prophet the droopy eyed Ex-CJ=IC sitting with Zardari, non-elected person who had his case pending with the supreme court? Then again, the CJ is of true Punjab blood thus is forgiven and praised rather than being condemned.
Hamidm2 is right when he says Pakistanis in general are hypocrites.
#103 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:16:02 am
BI: you are confusing cause and affect - the bomb changed india's tune from advani's jingoism to his boss's recognition of pakistan as a separate state.
the baitullahs and co are chicken-shit the day the army gets serious about cleaning up the area. Mush built them up for his own reasons.
the baitullahs and co are chicken-shit the day the army gets serious about cleaning up the area. Mush built them up for his own reasons.
#102 Posted by NangaPir on May 30, 2008 8:12:04 am
The UK bomb was built as part of the NATO strategic defense against Soviets superiority in conventional armies in europe. And it served that purpose.
You got it right. It protects against external invasions. But when it comes against people struggle it is no no. It protects North Koreans but it could not help Russians in Afghanistan. Do not try to mix apples with almonds. BTW I am not an entertainer. For entertainment you need to see Nanga in person.
You got it right. It protects against external invasions. But when it comes against people struggle it is no no. It protects North Koreans but it could not help Russians in Afghanistan. Do not try to mix apples with almonds. BTW I am not an entertainer. For entertainment you need to see Nanga in person.
#101 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:11:51 am
Nangapir #96 Your economics on Mush-Aziz Propertly Looters Ltd. is correct.
PS: Humble suggestion - please dont stuff too many different ideas and issues in one post. Some of the things you say are insightful - but get overshadowed by the rest of the text or go unread as a result.
PS: Humble suggestion - please dont stuff too many different ideas and issues in one post. Some of the things you say are insightful - but get overshadowed by the rest of the text or go unread as a result.
#100 Posted by banneditem on May 30, 2008 8:08:48 am
What a beautiful article Mr Hoodbhoy. This should be pulitzer prize winner. The best is
"Terrorism and fanaticism, not India, shall be the real threats to Pakistan in the forseeable future.
It was a lie that the Bomb could protect Pakistan, its people, or its armed forces. ......
The Bomb cannot help us recover the territory seized by the Baitullahs and Fazlullahs. Our nukes certainly give us the ability to destroy India – and to be destroyed in return. But that's about it. The much-vaunted nuclear dividend turned out to be empty.......
No ill-fed, ill-educated nation can be secure. No viable nation can discriminate between its citizens for reasons of ethnicity, religious faith, or economic status. Force and violence cannot summon a sense of citizenship."
Excellent Job. I would suggest selling the nuker to some dumb arab sheikh without the firing pin, and then building schools with those funds.
Education, Education, Education..... Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
"Terrorism and fanaticism, not India, shall be the real threats to Pakistan in the forseeable future.
It was a lie that the Bomb could protect Pakistan, its people, or its armed forces. ......
The Bomb cannot help us recover the territory seized by the Baitullahs and Fazlullahs. Our nukes certainly give us the ability to destroy India – and to be destroyed in return. But that's about it. The much-vaunted nuclear dividend turned out to be empty.......
No ill-fed, ill-educated nation can be secure. No viable nation can discriminate between its citizens for reasons of ethnicity, religious faith, or economic status. Force and violence cannot summon a sense of citizenship."
Excellent Job. I would suggest selling the nuker to some dumb arab sheikh without the firing pin, and then building schools with those funds.
Education, Education, Education..... Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
#99 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:05:41 am
hamidm #97: So you are saying urstruly has an "intelligence handicap" because he is a muslim? hmmmmmm...this brilliant observation should no doubt win you the Nobel Prize, EisteinM.
#98 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 8:03:32 am
#96 Nangapir: My faith in your enlightenment is shaken by this post.
The UK bomb was built as part of the NATO strategic defense against Soviets superiority in conventional armies in europe. And it served that purpose. It was not built to retain the British Empire.
Brits are a lot smarter than jamaatiya fools of the kind who show up on chowk and who keep dreaming of an Islamic Empire while shutting their eyes to reality.
The UK bomb was built as part of the NATO strategic defense against Soviets superiority in conventional armies in europe. And it served that purpose. It was not built to retain the British Empire.
Brits are a lot smarter than jamaatiya fools of the kind who show up on chowk and who keep dreaming of an Islamic Empire while shutting their eyes to reality.
#97 Posted by hamidm2 on May 30, 2008 7:57:44 am
Re: # 92
urstruly,
... although you and others of your ilk have the 'nominal' intelligence your minds are closed by the book and the utterings of the prophet (pbuh and his camel) ....... you yourself have declared that you 'know' that you are on the right path, even though it is a dusty desert track and you are riding a jackass, and that everyone else is on the paved highway to hell ......... so people with 'normal' intelligence can't have an argument with you and other cave dwellers hiding somewhere along the pak-afghan border ......
urstruly,
... although you and others of your ilk have the 'nominal' intelligence your minds are closed by the book and the utterings of the prophet (pbuh and his camel) ....... you yourself have declared that you 'know' that you are on the right path, even though it is a dusty desert track and you are riding a jackass, and that everyone else is on the paved highway to hell ......... so people with 'normal' intelligence can't have an argument with you and other cave dwellers hiding somewhere along the pak-afghan border ......
#96 Posted by NangaPir on May 30, 2008 7:55:10 am
But the Bomb provides no defense.
Is it new? Nuclear Britain got reduced from global mighty UK to mere virtual England. France had to abandoned colonies. Nukler Russia got into pieces. Who was expecting bomb will prepare breakfast in morning and make bed in evening? Nuclear USA got beaten back on multiple fronts starting from Vietnam and Korea. The only difference in case of Pakistan is its baygheret army that will blackmail the world and nukes will become a liability for Pakistanis instead of a matter of pride.
Post-Chagai, it was a different Pakistan.
A euphoric nation felt the expected pain of international sanctions but shrugged it off.
Should it be interpreted People are dumb?
In retrospect, the high cost of the weapons program, as well as the flight of capital are almost irrelevant.
Perviz Mush and thugs tried to sell Steel Mill for 15 erb Rs. The market price of the land alone is 85 erb Rs. Steel mill has its own port Qasim. And government spent hundred of million dollars to make case against Zardari who allegedly stole 1.5 billion dollars. And more: there has been billions spent on Kala Bagh study that has now been abandoned. Pakistan spends over 4 billion dollars on army and it lost more than half the country. And how you compare with nuclear program where we have labs, personal and infrastructure? The same missile program can be turned into space and other projects.
Most significantly, they changed the way in which military and political leaders thought, spoke, and behaved.
This only thing I agree with.
No doubt that before nukes there were on average 1 million people dying in wars per year until 1945. The graph came down sharply after that. These are nukes that provide security to North Korea borders, Israel, and also many others. If Iraq had nukes you would not have its 9 years old girls selling themselves in Damascus today. And majority clients are rich Saudis and Kuwaitis. And I can not forget the word of one such woman who posed very happy on an American channel about her so called freedom. But when she was asked did she really meant it? She said with a deep sigh, “The one who robbed Iraq’s honor and dignity God should destroy him.� Either every country should have nuke or none. Period. Otherwise under different pretexts countries will be turned into pieces that what followed after Russian fell to disgrace. Look how Tito’s country got ripped off. And same things will happen when pro-Russian forces will come back in future.
As far as the question of fundamentalists is concerned they do not have any model other than what Saudis have – rename interest with profit. If the west stop interference into Muslim countries the fundamentalism will vanish in NO time. The present fight is a temporary mutiny and in fact the west is preparing these fundamentalists against yet another great adventure. Do not be surprised when one day you wake up and hear the Fatwas of the Outbreak of Yajooj Majooj and holy order from Kabbah to fight against them. The war is most likely take place on the western front of China.
Is it new? Nuclear Britain got reduced from global mighty UK to mere virtual England. France had to abandoned colonies. Nukler Russia got into pieces. Who was expecting bomb will prepare breakfast in morning and make bed in evening? Nuclear USA got beaten back on multiple fronts starting from Vietnam and Korea. The only difference in case of Pakistan is its baygheret army that will blackmail the world and nukes will become a liability for Pakistanis instead of a matter of pride.
Post-Chagai, it was a different Pakistan.
A euphoric nation felt the expected pain of international sanctions but shrugged it off.
Should it be interpreted People are dumb?
In retrospect, the high cost of the weapons program, as well as the flight of capital are almost irrelevant.
Perviz Mush and thugs tried to sell Steel Mill for 15 erb Rs. The market price of the land alone is 85 erb Rs. Steel mill has its own port Qasim. And government spent hundred of million dollars to make case against Zardari who allegedly stole 1.5 billion dollars. And more: there has been billions spent on Kala Bagh study that has now been abandoned. Pakistan spends over 4 billion dollars on army and it lost more than half the country. And how you compare with nuclear program where we have labs, personal and infrastructure? The same missile program can be turned into space and other projects.
Most significantly, they changed the way in which military and political leaders thought, spoke, and behaved.
This only thing I agree with.
No doubt that before nukes there were on average 1 million people dying in wars per year until 1945. The graph came down sharply after that. These are nukes that provide security to North Korea borders, Israel, and also many others. If Iraq had nukes you would not have its 9 years old girls selling themselves in Damascus today. And majority clients are rich Saudis and Kuwaitis. And I can not forget the word of one such woman who posed very happy on an American channel about her so called freedom. But when she was asked did she really meant it? She said with a deep sigh, “The one who robbed Iraq’s honor and dignity God should destroy him.� Either every country should have nuke or none. Period. Otherwise under different pretexts countries will be turned into pieces that what followed after Russian fell to disgrace. Look how Tito’s country got ripped off. And same things will happen when pro-Russian forces will come back in future.
As far as the question of fundamentalists is concerned they do not have any model other than what Saudis have – rename interest with profit. If the west stop interference into Muslim countries the fundamentalism will vanish in NO time. The present fight is a temporary mutiny and in fact the west is preparing these fundamentalists against yet another great adventure. Do not be surprised when one day you wake up and hear the Fatwas of the Outbreak of Yajooj Majooj and holy order from Kabbah to fight against them. The war is most likely take place on the western front of China.
#94 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 7:52:47 am
urstruly: no offense, but what am i supposed to conclude from your posts other than that you have a "reasoning handicap"? like your sincere belief in Dr. AQ Khan (the salesman who inflated his partial role in the nuclear bomb to enrich himself and pose as the father)?
#93 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 7:45:21 am
#92 you are right. you dont argue with a barrel of fish.
#92 Posted by Urstruly on May 30, 2008 7:41:09 am
Re: # 91
arguments? don't try to flatter yourself.
arguments? don't try to flatter yourself.
#91 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 7:32:26 am
hamidm: having a argument with urstruly or echoboom is like shooting fish in a barrel - it is a no-brainer. Why dont you argue with someone who has normal intelligence?
#90 Posted by hamidm2 on May 30, 2008 7:30:19 am
Re: # 87
zeemax,
....moslems also say 'allah-o-akbar' before slashing a chicken's neck, digging into a plate of biryani, beheading an infidel, whacking off a child's foreskin, flying planes into tall buildings and having an orgasm ......... what is common between these acts and detonating an atom bum?
zeemax,
....moslems also say 'allah-o-akbar' before slashing a chicken's neck, digging into a plate of biryani, beheading an infidel, whacking off a child's foreskin, flying planes into tall buildings and having an orgasm ......... what is common between these acts and detonating an atom bum?
#89 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 7:26:58 am
hamidm #85 ".... so you think the punjabi civil society is better than unwashed sindhi masses ?"
not "better", but more assertive: there are no "wadera jails" for debt-ridden punjabi civil society members as there are for sindhi peasants.
or is the difference too hard for you to tell?
not "better", but more assertive: there are no "wadera jails" for debt-ridden punjabi civil society members as there are for sindhi peasants.
or is the difference too hard for you to tell?
#88 Posted by akcheema on May 30, 2008 7:19:13 am
Re: # 86; hamidm sahib
the donkey/jackass certainly holds some significance for the 'faithful'....god even chose it for his son afterall; dajjal is apparently going to observe this 'sunnah-e-eeswi' too....fine choice!....also made available to the "masih-mau'ud/Mahdi" - who for the mirzaees has already appeared and subsequently perished....resilient fellow!....I just get a bit concerned that 'masih' didn't learn anything from his first trip down here and decided to return not just once but several times....and if I believe some of the inmates at a local facility..his 'true spirit' never really left us but appears to have stuck around.....w'allahu alam
the donkey/jackass certainly holds some significance for the 'faithful'....god even chose it for his son afterall; dajjal is apparently going to observe this 'sunnah-e-eeswi' too....fine choice!....also made available to the "masih-mau'ud/Mahdi" - who for the mirzaees has already appeared and subsequently perished....resilient fellow!....I just get a bit concerned that 'masih' didn't learn anything from his first trip down here and decided to return not just once but several times....and if I believe some of the inmates at a local facility..his 'true spirit' never really left us but appears to have stuck around.....w'allahu alam
#87 Posted by zeemax on May 30, 2008 7:06:51 am
#82 Posted by Urstruly
Yom-e-Takbeer
Interestingly, Dr. Samar Mubarankmand mentioned in his comments on 28th May the reason for the name of the day. There was no countdown to the test as is customary. He was instructed instead to say Allah-o-Akbar and press the button, which he did, and that is why it is called Yom-e-Takbeer.
Yom-e-Takbeer
Interestingly, Dr. Samar Mubarankmand mentioned in his comments on 28th May the reason for the name of the day. There was no countdown to the test as is customary. He was instructed instead to say Allah-o-Akbar and press the button, which he did, and that is why it is called Yom-e-Takbeer.
#86 Posted by hamidm2 on May 30, 2008 6:53:52 am
Re: # 84
the mahdi and the jackass
...... i had a dream ( mashallah ) .... i saw echoboom riding a jackass chewing ganderis with urstruly leading it; at a dusty crossroad they run into a tall bedouin in flowing robes and a one-eyed man with sunglasses; they greet each other and the tall bedouin asks urstruly, `` brother, who is the stranger riding the jackass`` .......with a reverent glance at echoboom, urstruly whispers, `` why, my lord, he is the saviour - the mahdi, who has returned to lead us to the promised land``..... ``all right !``, exclaims the one eyed mullah - they give each other high fives, hugs and kisses and dig into the ganderis ....... the jackass watches in amazemant and decides he has had enough - with a bray and a kick of the hind legs he takes off into the desert with the four holy men in hot pursuit .......
the mahdi and the jackass
...... i had a dream ( mashallah ) .... i saw echoboom riding a jackass chewing ganderis with urstruly leading it; at a dusty crossroad they run into a tall bedouin in flowing robes and a one-eyed man with sunglasses; they greet each other and the tall bedouin asks urstruly, `` brother, who is the stranger riding the jackass`` .......with a reverent glance at echoboom, urstruly whispers, `` why, my lord, he is the saviour - the mahdi, who has returned to lead us to the promised land``..... ``all right !``, exclaims the one eyed mullah - they give each other high fives, hugs and kisses and dig into the ganderis ....... the jackass watches in amazemant and decides he has had enough - with a bray and a kick of the hind legs he takes off into the desert with the four holy men in hot pursuit .......
#85 Posted by hamidm2 on May 30, 2008 6:42:02 am
Re: # 78
tahmed mian,
"Zardari may be used to lording it over the poor in rural sindh, but he seems to have no clue of what he is dealing with in the panjab. "
.... so you think the punjabi civil society is better than unwashed sindhi masses ? ..... what about yousaf gilani, raja ashraf, jehangir badar and all those other gowalmandi types - arn't they part of the punjabi potohari paindoo civil society ?
..... mian ji, i hate to disillusion you, but a paki is a paki is a paki .... it doesn't matter whether he is punjabi or sindhi, washed or unwashed, civil or uncivil ..... we are all a bunch of hypocrites without any principles ...... except for sheikh rashid (lota or not) who simply wants to serve the people of rawalpindi
sheikh rashid zindabad !
tahmed mian,
"Zardari may be used to lording it over the poor in rural sindh, but he seems to have no clue of what he is dealing with in the panjab. "
.... so you think the punjabi civil society is better than unwashed sindhi masses ? ..... what about yousaf gilani, raja ashraf, jehangir badar and all those other gowalmandi types - arn't they part of the punjabi potohari paindoo civil society ?
..... mian ji, i hate to disillusion you, but a paki is a paki is a paki .... it doesn't matter whether he is punjabi or sindhi, washed or unwashed, civil or uncivil ..... we are all a bunch of hypocrites without any principles ...... except for sheikh rashid (lota or not) who simply wants to serve the people of rawalpindi
sheikh rashid zindabad !
#84 Posted by Urstruly on May 30, 2008 6:30:50 am
Zeemax & Echoboom
Allama Iqbal has put it more eloquently:
TAQDEER KAI QAZI KA YEH FATWA HAI AZAL SAI
HAI JURM-E-ZAEEFI KI SAZA MARG-E-MAFAJAT
Translation: The eternal verdict of the Jude of our fate is: The weak is condemned to die everyday.
Allama Iqbal has put it more eloquently:
TAQDEER KAI QAZI KA YEH FATWA HAI AZAL SAI
HAI JURM-E-ZAEEFI KI SAZA MARG-E-MAFAJAT
Translation: The eternal verdict of the Jude of our fate is: The weak is condemned to die everyday.
#83 Posted by _arjun3 on May 30, 2008 6:30:37 am
#82 Posted by Urstruly on May 30, 2008 6:23:04 am
therefore this day is dedicated to the slaves of Allah who by the grace and will of Allah achieved greatness on that day.
achieved greatness? even north korea detonated nukes...
face it...you want indian kashmir real bad...and nukes mean you're never ever going to get it..
the only bombing the paki forces are going to do is of it's own people..
therefore this day is dedicated to the slaves of Allah who by the grace and will of Allah achieved greatness on that day.
achieved greatness? even north korea detonated nukes...
face it...you want indian kashmir real bad...and nukes mean you're never ever going to get it..
the only bombing the paki forces are going to do is of it's own people..
#82 Posted by Urstruly on May 30, 2008 6:23:04 am
Yom-e-Takbeer
Several people have asked the definition of the phrase (according to their own mental levels). Here is the definition:
The literal translation of this phrase is : The Day of Greatness.(Yom=Day, Takbeer: Greatness).
But this translation is not as straightforwrd as it sounds. According to Muslim beliefs the one and only one who is truly deserving of all praise and Greatness is Allah and Allah does not like when man shows arrogance and pride, therefore this day is dedicated to the slaves of Allah who by the grace and will of Allah achieved greatness on that day. And yet we pledge our humility towards Him. So yes, the phrase definitely has religious connotations.
Yom-e-Takbeer May 28.
Several people have asked the definition of the phrase (according to their own mental levels). Here is the definition:
The literal translation of this phrase is : The Day of Greatness.(Yom=Day, Takbeer: Greatness).
But this translation is not as straightforwrd as it sounds. According to Muslim beliefs the one and only one who is truly deserving of all praise and Greatness is Allah and Allah does not like when man shows arrogance and pride, therefore this day is dedicated to the slaves of Allah who by the grace and will of Allah achieved greatness on that day. And yet we pledge our humility towards Him. So yes, the phrase definitely has religious connotations.
Yom-e-Takbeer May 28.
#81 Posted by nkg on May 30, 2008 5:10:28 am
Re: # 24
Hari...
Man US could have nuked. You don't know the efficiency of Paki nuke. But USA are definitely ahead in nuke weapon tech. We should rely on US bomb than Islamic bomb...
Hari...
Man US could have nuked. You don't know the efficiency of Paki nuke. But USA are definitely ahead in nuke weapon tech. We should rely on US bomb than Islamic bomb...
#80 Posted by nkg on May 30, 2008 5:03:02 am
Re: # 77
Harimau...
I am sure, it is different in meaning.
Large number of urdooo/arabic words have originited from Hebrew with meaning little changed.
Zeemax...
"...Gujrat muslims...".
It was for extreame "Ghalba" (train burning), which has caused problem for moslems in Gujrat and Mumbai. If these Latif, Chhota Shakil, Dawood Ibrahim and his islamic comrades lived like other civilised Indians, they would not have faced this trouble.
Little less Ghalbha would have helped Aurangjeb and mughals ( Marathas, Rajputs and Punjabis would not have picked up arms enmass)....
With your Ghalba and nuclear warhead, what are you doing against US and NATO forces?
India is peace loving (elephant). Unless the crazy dog( Pakistan) creates trouble, it will stay calm and cool.
Harimau...
I am sure, it is different in meaning.
Large number of urdooo/arabic words have originited from Hebrew with meaning little changed.
Zeemax...
"...Gujrat muslims...".
It was for extreame "Ghalba" (train burning), which has caused problem for moslems in Gujrat and Mumbai. If these Latif, Chhota Shakil, Dawood Ibrahim and his islamic comrades lived like other civilised Indians, they would not have faced this trouble.
Little less Ghalbha would have helped Aurangjeb and mughals ( Marathas, Rajputs and Punjabis would not have picked up arms enmass)....
With your Ghalba and nuclear warhead, what are you doing against US and NATO forces?
India is peace loving (elephant). Unless the crazy dog( Pakistan) creates trouble, it will stay calm and cool.
#79 Posted by nkg on May 30, 2008 4:38:53 am
Re: # 39
Zeemax...
The equipment was from china. The process was stolen from Canada, and your islamic world is celebrating!!! LOL...
Iron...
These North Korea, Pakistan and to some extent India should not celebrate about this so called nuclear technology. Find scientists in Pakistan, who have good authority over nuclear physics and respected for their work,worldwide. I am sure, you will not find many.
Look at Israel,France,Russia, USA etc. They carry out research on nuclear technology and publish inventions regularly. Nuke warhead is not the only product they produce. These A Q Khans etc. can be, at most called nuclear mechanic.
I can blame Indian media also for making hype about Indian (so called ) nuclear technology and projecting APJ Abdul Kalam as great scientist (that way TIFR and Institute of Plasma Research (http://www.plasma.ernet.in) is doing some decent work)
Majumder...
Right, even without bomb, India/Pakistan would have been poor. But the way it is projected that looks, like they have invented something revolutionary and can be used as foundation for further research. The process and equipment of these bomb making are almost standardised. It has become almost rotten.
Zeemax...
The equipment was from china. The process was stolen from Canada, and your islamic world is celebrating!!! LOL...
Iron...
These North Korea, Pakistan and to some extent India should not celebrate about this so called nuclear technology. Find scientists in Pakistan, who have good authority over nuclear physics and respected for their work,worldwide. I am sure, you will not find many.
Look at Israel,France,Russia, USA etc. They carry out research on nuclear technology and publish inventions regularly. Nuke warhead is not the only product they produce. These A Q Khans etc. can be, at most called nuclear mechanic.
I can blame Indian media also for making hype about Indian (so called ) nuclear technology and projecting APJ Abdul Kalam as great scientist (that way TIFR and Institute of Plasma Research (http://www.plasma.ernet.in) is doing some decent work)
Majumder...
Right, even without bomb, India/Pakistan would have been poor. But the way it is projected that looks, like they have invented something revolutionary and can be used as foundation for further research. The process and equipment of these bomb making are almost standardised. It has become almost rotten.
#78 Posted by tahmed32 on May 30, 2008 4:26:45 am
HP #75 no doubt there are serious economic problems facing Pakistan - the cost of these is being borne by the poor though.
It is all the more disgraceful to see what Dawn reports as being a "glittering dinner" of the bigwigs, with the prime minister sitting next to the scoundrel musharraf. My fear is that Zardari is going to prove to be a disaster - while mush's vision was limited to his personal ego, that of Zardari seems almost equally limited (i.e. to bequeathing Pakistan to his son). Zardari may be used to lording it over the poor in rural sindh, but he seems to have no clue of what he is dealing with in the panjab.
It is all the more disgraceful to see what Dawn reports as being a "glittering dinner" of the bigwigs, with the prime minister sitting next to the scoundrel musharraf. My fear is that Zardari is going to prove to be a disaster - while mush's vision was limited to his personal ego, that of Zardari seems almost equally limited (i.e. to bequeathing Pakistan to his son). Zardari may be used to lording it over the poor in rural sindh, but he seems to have no clue of what he is dealing with in the panjab.
#77 Posted by harimau on May 30, 2008 1:01:58 am
Ref Urstruly #28
[First of all, I would like to convey my heartiest congratulations to all God fearing, patriotic, and red-blooded Pakistan on Yom-e-Takbeer; the most auspicious day in the history of Pakistan]
Yom-e-Takbeer... is that the same as Yom Kippur when the Israelis wiped the desert floor with the Muslim hordes?
[First of all, I would like to convey my heartiest congratulations to all God fearing, patriotic, and red-blooded Pakistan on Yom-e-Takbeer; the most auspicious day in the history of Pakistan]
Yom-e-Takbeer... is that the same as Yom Kippur when the Israelis wiped the desert floor with the Muslim hordes?
#76 Posted by majumdar on May 30, 2008 12:13:41 am
HP sain,
"The peace in FATA would chip away a major chunk of an already failed narrative but the narrative is so important for DC that any loss of face would not be acceptable."
Would a change in US Presidency in November change things or it would remain unchanged as far as WOT is concerned?
Regards
"The peace in FATA would chip away a major chunk of an already failed narrative but the narrative is so important for DC that any loss of face would not be acceptable."
Would a change in US Presidency in November change things or it would remain unchanged as far as WOT is concerned?
Regards
#75 Posted by HP on May 30, 2008 12:03:27 am
#72 Posted by echoboom
“A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.�
I am not a pessimist by nature but a realist. There are many issues and I think ‘a re-born’ Pakistan is illusive. The politicians, the army and even the US have no real solutions to the problems that are emerging in Pakistan fast.
The country is running on empty. Please try to understand this: they will be able to walk Mush and probably would also seat the Judges but the looming economic crisis and the situation on the western borders would suck the blood out of the country. I know they are appealing to the tribes for peace but Rana Singh will not accept any peace in that area. The peace in FATA would chip away a major chunk of an already failed narrative but the narrative is so important for DC that any loss of face would not be acceptable.
The Pak army is now the new hijras of Pakistan or perhaps worse than hijra, and that will expose the country to the kind of political and military offensive that the civilians would have no answer for. Our Politicians are trying to game the system. They want to survive until the end of summer; hoping that by that time the Sarkar will be finally de-fanged to take any action. On the face of it, it looks good but the drawback is that it is the US army that is uneasy and it will force the lame duck or even a dead duck to yuck, yuck to save its soldiers.
“A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.�
I am not a pessimist by nature but a realist. There are many issues and I think ‘a re-born’ Pakistan is illusive. The politicians, the army and even the US have no real solutions to the problems that are emerging in Pakistan fast.
The country is running on empty. Please try to understand this: they will be able to walk Mush and probably would also seat the Judges but the looming economic crisis and the situation on the western borders would suck the blood out of the country. I know they are appealing to the tribes for peace but Rana Singh will not accept any peace in that area. The peace in FATA would chip away a major chunk of an already failed narrative but the narrative is so important for DC that any loss of face would not be acceptable.
The Pak army is now the new hijras of Pakistan or perhaps worse than hijra, and that will expose the country to the kind of political and military offensive that the civilians would have no answer for. Our Politicians are trying to game the system. They want to survive until the end of summer; hoping that by that time the Sarkar will be finally de-fanged to take any action. On the face of it, it looks good but the drawback is that it is the US army that is uneasy and it will force the lame duck or even a dead duck to yuck, yuck to save its soldiers.
#74 Posted by zeemax on May 29, 2008 11:37:39 pm
#72 Posted by echoboom,
I hope you "enjoyed" the slam-dunk elsewhere...
You bet I did! It's more fun than watching a barrel of monkeys picking lice and thinking these are doughnuts !!!
A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.
Yes. As soon as the Head-Kanjar leaves for the United Kennels (HMKs ..His Master's Kennels - LoL), there will be a sea change in the geo-political realities of this region.
I hope you "enjoyed" the slam-dunk elsewhere...
You bet I did! It's more fun than watching a barrel of monkeys picking lice and thinking these are doughnuts !!!
A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.
Yes. As soon as the Head-Kanjar leaves for the United Kennels (HMKs ..His Master's Kennels - LoL), there will be a sea change in the geo-political realities of this region.
#73 Posted by echoboom on May 29, 2008 11:19:06 pm
72:
........offered for FOOD his own rubies & pearls on a platter...The Mongol jeered, what good are these to you?
........
........offered for FOOD his own rubies & pearls on a platter...The Mongol jeered, what good are these to you?
........
#72 Posted by echoboom on May 29, 2008 11:12:35 pm
Hey Zeemax!
71: a 100%
and this Caliph when imprisoned by Halaaku was offered for his own rubies & pearls on a platter...The Mongol jeered, what good are these to you?
Jinnah, Bhutto, Zia and Nawaz Sharif have all brought a lot of good to Pakistan..Mind you mistakes, nay blunders, too were made..but they all had their hearts in the right place.
I hope you "enjoyed" the slam-dunk elsewhere...I know , that you know, that my interaction-absence oftimes is deliberate but I sincerely look forward to a 21st century Zeemax...:)
A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.
71: a 100%
and this Caliph when imprisoned by Halaaku was offered for his own rubies & pearls on a platter...The Mongol jeered, what good are these to you?
Jinnah, Bhutto, Zia and Nawaz Sharif have all brought a lot of good to Pakistan..Mind you mistakes, nay blunders, too were made..but they all had their hearts in the right place.
I hope you "enjoyed" the slam-dunk elsewhere...I know , that you know, that my interaction-absence oftimes is deliberate but I sincerely look forward to a 21st century Zeemax...:)
A re-born pakistan is awaiting us.
#71 Posted by zeemax on May 29, 2008 10:48:08 pm
54 Posted by Urstruly,
...bombs are not made to make love to people; they are made to kill and maim them - deadlier the better. The civilian casualties are a fact of modern warfare; it is impossible to avoid them. Personally, I don't understand why they should be avoided at all ... morality of war is later dictated by the victor anyway ... signing international treaties But ... it is necessary for Muslims to have a credible leverage otherwise ...
Very well said. Just to build on that (if I may), Muslims have not forgotten that the great libraries of the Abbasia did not help them with the Mongol hordes. The same Caliph who had sent his 600,000 strong army on leave as a gesture of goodwill and had opened the city gates wishing to sign a treaty was rolled up in his own carpet and trampled under horse feet. The river first ran red with Muslims' blood and then black with the libraries'ink. It was because that certain Caliph had forgotten when his Prophet had died, he had no personal possessions except bedding BUT he had eight top notch swords, several spears, and battle armor.
Whenever Muslims had 'Ghalba' over their enemies, they pardoned them. However, whenever enemies had 'Ghalba' over Muslims, they were massacred mercilessly - regardless of whether they were 'Good' Muslims or 'Bad' Muslims. Just their being Muslims was enough reason to eliminate their entire generations. The learned & gentle Spanish, the white-western Bosnians, the secular Palestinians, as well as the Gujrat Muslims were ALL victims of a loss of 'Ghalba' and nothing else. (Westoxicated 'social-Muslims' pls. take note).
This is why Muslims (at-least Pakistani Muslims for sure) decided to eat grass but ensured this never happens to them. They haven't forgotten, nor I suspect have the Iranians.
...bombs are not made to make love to people; they are made to kill and maim them - deadlier the better. The civilian casualties are a fact of modern warfare; it is impossible to avoid them. Personally, I don't understand why they should be avoided at all ... morality of war is later dictated by the victor anyway ... signing international treaties But ... it is necessary for Muslims to have a credible leverage otherwise ...
Very well said. Just to build on that (if I may), Muslims have not forgotten that the great libraries of the Abbasia did not help them with the Mongol hordes. The same Caliph who had sent his 600,000 strong army on leave as a gesture of goodwill and had opened the city gates wishing to sign a treaty was rolled up in his own carpet and trampled under horse feet. The river first ran red with Muslims' blood and then black with the libraries'ink. It was because that certain Caliph had forgotten when his Prophet had died, he had no personal possessions except bedding BUT he had eight top notch swords, several spears, and battle armor.
Whenever Muslims had 'Ghalba' over their enemies, they pardoned them. However, whenever enemies had 'Ghalba' over Muslims, they were massacred mercilessly - regardless of whether they were 'Good' Muslims or 'Bad' Muslims. Just their being Muslims was enough reason to eliminate their entire generations. The learned & gentle Spanish, the white-western Bosnians, the secular Palestinians, as well as the Gujrat Muslims were ALL victims of a loss of 'Ghalba' and nothing else. (Westoxicated 'social-Muslims' pls. take note).
This is why Muslims (at-least Pakistani Muslims for sure) decided to eat grass but ensured this never happens to them. They haven't forgotten, nor I suspect have the Iranians.
#70 Posted by echoboom on May 29, 2008 10:36:09 pm
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#69 Posted by _arjun2 on May 29, 2008 10:35:17 pm
he he..
The coming economic tsunami
By Yousuf Nazar
PAKISTAN’S economic outlook for the next year or two is serious even if it manages to get the planned three billion dollars in external financial assistance in the next few months.
Its currency has lost 10 per cent against the US dollar since the beginning of the year, trade deficit has jumped by 50 per cent this year, Standard & Poor’s has cut its rating by a single notch to a B with a negative outlook on May 15, and its Euro bonds are being quoted at a spread of 500-600 basis points to the US treasuries compared to an average spread of 261 points for emerging markets bonds.
It is not unlikely that key macro indicators will deteriorate as follows:
— The GDP growth may drop sharply to three per cent or less from 6.6 per cent in 2007. This would imply a drop in the real per capita income of around 80 per cent of Pakistanis due to an approximate population growth rate of 2.4 per cent and skewed income distribution.
— The current account deficit could exceed 10 per cent of the GDP for the current fiscal year ending June 30, 2008.
— The rupee could depreciate to 75 per dollar with a fair chance of overshooting it in the interim if the trade gap continues to widen and capital flight accelerates.
— Inflation could accelerate to 25 per cent sparking widespread social unrest and pushing more people below the poverty line.
— The stock market could fall to the 11,000 level i.e. by another 15 per cent.
— The budget deficit could cross eight per cent of the GDP.
— Foreign exchange reserves may drop to under two months of import cover.
Why is Pakistan especially vulnerable?
Based on the latest available key economic indicators of the 25 largest developing countries (excluding the Middle Eastern oil producers) in Asia, Latin America and Africa, Pakistan has had the worst fiscal and current account deficit level (measured as a percentage of GDP), the second highest inflation rate and the second worst performing currency when measured in terms of its depreciation against the US dollar since the beginning of the year. Oil prices are not the only reason for Pakistan’s current economic woes. The rapid deterioration of its macro economic indicators has exposed its fragility and the myth of its ‘economic progress’.
Among all major developing countries, Pakistan’s economy is the weakest and most vulnerable to rising oil prices and international financial crisis. Fourteen of the 25 largest emerging market economy countries do not have a deficit at all because their exports and other earnings are more than their imports; 10 countries have an inflation rate of six per cent or less and only four countries, Venezuela, Russia, Pakistan and South Africa, have double-digit inflation. Overall, Pakistan has one of the worst levels of external deficit and inflation at 8.5 per cent of the GDP and 17 per cent respectively.
Political leaders have been devoting most of their time and energy to the judges’ issue. It would serve the country better if the ruling PPP can move quickly to resolve the judiciary issue because if it does not, it may not have the political strength to deal with an economic tsunami that is waiting to happen and could be the biggest reason why the government may not complete its term. The Pakistani establishment knows this and is watching gleefully as the coalition falls apart amid a growing trust deficit between the PPP and Nawaz Sharif’s PML-N.
So far, Mr Asif Ali Zardari has ruled out any possibility of impeaching President Pervez Musharraf, although he said that he did not recognise him as a constitutional president. “I spent five years in his prison … but can we afford it? … can our economy afford it?� he asked an interviewer recently. Is that the only reason or is it because the United States sees him as its man who can deliver on the war on terror?
But Musharraf is also the biggest destabilising factor for the PPP government as well as for the market and investors. Mr Zardari’s desire to maintain a good working relationship with the army and the United States is understandable but Musharraf may be past his expiry date to perform that function as the Bush presidency nears the end of its term. The initiative has slipped out of the PPP’s hands.
If the party does not seize it now it may get trapped in a 1988-like situation when Benazir Bhutto became Pakistan’s prime minister with no real powers and had little control over the biggest province Punjab but was blamed for all its problems. One way out of this impasse may be to convene a joint sitting of the parliament and move a resolution asking President Musharraf to resign. It will be hard for Musharraf to ignore such a public call by elected representatives.
If the economy continues its present slide, even the US may not be able to bail Pakistan out. Its own once mighty financial giants are being rescued by Chinese and Arab investors. Pakistan’s last resort would be the IMF with its usual conditionalities and the inevitable pain they would cause. For Pakistan, the most sensible course would be to put its house in order now, introduce fiscal reforms, mobilise domestic savings, and have special schemes to attract capital from overseas Pakistanis. But this will require tremendous political will backed by broad national consensus.
Pakistan may need as much as $10bn a year in economic aid if oil prices stay at the level of $125 a barrel or may require more if they move to the $150-$200 range which is not unlikely. The Financial Times commented in an editorial this month: “For rich countries, the $125 oil price will be a noticeable drag on economic growth; for poor countries, when combined with higher food prices, it will mean more poverty. Oil supply should grow in response but if it does not, $200 oil is just about conceivable. It would cause serious economic disruption, international tensions and currency crises for some poor nations.�
The unpleasant truth is that Pakistan is among the most vulnerable developing poor nations.
The writer is the author of The Gathering Storm. Pakistan: Political Economy of a Security State and a former emerging markets investments head of Citigroup.
yousufnazar@yahoo.com
The coming economic tsunami
By Yousuf Nazar
PAKISTAN’S economic outlook for the next year or two is serious even if it manages to get the planned three billion dollars in external financial assistance in the next few months.
Its currency has lost 10 per cent against the US dollar since the beginning of the year, trade deficit has jumped by 50 per cent this year, Standard & Poor’s has cut its rating by a single notch to a B with a negative outlook on May 15, and its Euro bonds are being quoted at a spread of 500-600 basis points to the US treasuries compared to an average spread of 261 points for emerging markets bonds.
It is not unlikely that key macro indicators will deteriorate as follows:
— The GDP growth may drop sharply to three per cent or less from 6.6 per cent in 2007. This would imply a drop in the real per capita income of around 80 per cent of Pakistanis due to an approximate population growth rate of 2.4 per cent and skewed income distribution.
— The current account deficit could exceed 10 per cent of the GDP for the current fiscal year ending June 30, 2008.
— The rupee could depreciate to 75 per dollar with a fair chance of overshooting it in the interim if the trade gap continues to widen and capital flight accelerates.
— Inflation could accelerate to 25 per cent sparking widespread social unrest and pushing more people below the poverty line.
— The stock market could fall to the 11,000 level i.e. by another 15 per cent.
— The budget deficit could cross eight per cent of the GDP.
— Foreign exchange reserves may drop to under two months of import cover.
Why is Pakistan especially vulnerable?
Based on the latest available key economic indicators of the 25 largest developing countries (excluding the Middle Eastern oil producers) in Asia, Latin America and Africa, Pakistan has had the worst fiscal and current account deficit level (measured as a percentage of GDP), the second highest inflation rate and the second worst performing currency when measured in terms of its depreciation against the US dollar since the beginning of the year. Oil prices are not the only reason for Pakistan’s current economic woes. The rapid deterioration of its macro economic indicators has exposed its fragility and the myth of its ‘economic progress’.
Among all major developing countries, Pakistan’s economy is the weakest and most vulnerable to rising oil prices and international financial crisis. Fourteen of the 25 largest emerging market economy countries do not have a deficit at all because their exports and other earnings are more than their imports; 10 countries have an inflation rate of six per cent or less and only four countries, Venezuela, Russia, Pakistan and South Africa, have double-digit inflation. Overall, Pakistan has one of the worst levels of external deficit and inflation at 8.5 per cent of the GDP and 17 per cent respectively.
Political leaders have been devoting most of their time and energy to the judges’ issue. It would serve the country better if the ruling PPP can move quickly to resolve the judiciary issue because if it does not, it may not have the political strength to deal with an economic tsunami that is waiting to happen and could be the biggest reason why the government may not complete its term. The Pakistani establishment knows this and is watching gleefully as the coalition falls apart amid a growing trust deficit between the PPP and Nawaz Sharif’s PML-N.
So far, Mr Asif Ali Zardari has ruled out any possibility of impeaching President Pervez Musharraf, although he said that he did not recognise him as a constitutional president. “I spent five years in his prison … but can we afford it? … can our economy afford it?� he asked an interviewer recently. Is that the only reason or is it because the United States sees him as its man who can deliver on the war on terror?
But Musharraf is also the biggest destabilising factor for the PPP government as well as for the market and investors. Mr Zardari’s desire to maintain a good working relationship with the army and the United States is understandable but Musharraf may be past his expiry date to perform that function as the Bush presidency nears the end of its term. The initiative has slipped out of the PPP’s hands.
If the party does not seize it now it may get trapped in a 1988-like situation when Benazir Bhutto became Pakistan’s prime minister with no real powers and had little control over the biggest province Punjab but was blamed for all its problems. One way out of this impasse may be to convene a joint sitting of the parliament and move a resolution asking President Musharraf to resign. It will be hard for Musharraf to ignore such a public call by elected representatives.
If the economy continues its present slide, even the US may not be able to bail Pakistan out. Its own once mighty financial giants are being rescued by Chinese and Arab investors. Pakistan’s last resort would be the IMF with its usual conditionalities and the inevitable pain they would cause. For Pakistan, the most sensible course would be to put its house in order now, introduce fiscal reforms, mobilise domestic savings, and have special schemes to attract capital from overseas Pakistanis. But this will require tremendous political will backed by broad national consensus.
Pakistan may need as much as $10bn a year in economic aid if oil prices stay at the level of $125 a barrel or may require more if they move to the $150-$200 range which is not unlikely. The Financial Times commented in an editorial this month: “For rich countries, the $125 oil price will be a noticeable drag on economic growth; for poor countries, when combined with higher food prices, it will mean more poverty. Oil supply should grow in response but if it does not, $200 oil is just about conceivable. It would cause serious economic disruption, international tensions and currency crises for some poor nations.�
The unpleasant truth is that Pakistan is among the most vulnerable developing poor nations.
The writer is the author of The Gathering Storm. Pakistan: Political Economy of a Security State and a former emerging markets investments head of Citigroup.
yousufnazar@yahoo.com
#68 Posted by _arjun2 on May 29, 2008 10:29:03 pm
maulana urstruly: I think you know what this means...more pakiwhacker drones and more dead jihadis..
remember...TANSTAAFL
PM seeks more US assistance
By Masood Haider
NEW YORK, May 29: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has asked the United States to increase economic and defence assistance for Pakistan’s newly-elected democratic government as part of “democracy dividend.�
In an interview with Wall Street Journal published on Thursday, Mr Gilani did not give any definitive answer on the status of President Pervez Musharraf saying he would let his party decide whether to try to force the president from office.
Mr Gilani said he would maintain a working relationship with Mr Musharraf for now.
“I have no problem working with him, but will go by the party’s decision.�
Making a case for increased US assistance, Mr Gilani said that further US assistance “will help deliver a democracy dividend to the people� after Pakistan held landmark elections for a new parliament in February.
He also said that aid was needed to help provide political and economic stability as the nation sought to fight terrorism.
The newspaper said that Mr Gilani didn’t specify how much further assistance Pakistan was seeking.
He made his case for further aid during a recent meeting in Egypt with President George Bush.
Mr Gilani said the use of military mean alone to try to stamp out militancy from Pakista
remember...TANSTAAFL
PM seeks more US assistance
By Masood Haider
NEW YORK, May 29: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has asked the United States to increase economic and defence assistance for Pakistan’s newly-elected democratic government as part of “democracy dividend.�
In an interview with Wall Street Journal published on Thursday, Mr Gilani did not give any definitive answer on the status of President Pervez Musharraf saying he would let his party decide whether to try to force the president from office.
Mr Gilani said he would maintain a working relationship with Mr Musharraf for now.
“I have no problem working with him, but will go by the party’s decision.�
Making a case for increased US assistance, Mr Gilani said that further US assistance “will help deliver a democracy dividend to the people� after Pakistan held landmark elections for a new parliament in February.
He also said that aid was needed to help provide political and economic stability as the nation sought to fight terrorism.
The newspaper said that Mr Gilani didn’t specify how much further assistance Pakistan was seeking.
He made his case for further aid during a recent meeting in Egypt with President George Bush.
Mr Gilani said the use of military mean alone to try to stamp out militancy from Pakista