Long March

Interesting.

معرآج

Jayp writes "masadi,

Many a people like you celebrated the so called free and fair elections,..."

You clueless fool, while people were celebrating the elections, I called it a farce that was the result of Pak Army manipulations, read my article "Legitimizing a Farce: the 2008 Pakistan Elections and the Pakistan Army"- restoring the judiciary is a completely different issue altogether, for that read my article " Why restoring the Judges is priority #1 for Pakistan". both of these important articles very relevant to the Pakistan political scene were CENSORED by chowk staff so they ended up in my ilog"...

Fisherfolk’s woes


GOVERNMENTS come and go, promising much but delivering nothing to the impoverished fisherfolk community eking out a living on the margins of society. A dire situation is now assuming catastrophic proportions with livelihoods being lost at a rapid pace and an entire way of life at serious risk. On Friday, the Sindh fisheries minister assured the Pakistan Fisherfolk Forum that its concerns would be discussed with the federal government so that equitable solutions can be found. It is hoped that this is more than just a routine statement, for the problems faced by fisherfolk are mounting by the day. Foremost among them are the contract system currently in effect at inland fisheries as well as deep-sea trawling that is depleting marine resources and leaving less catch for local fishermen. Foreign trawlers are not so much fishing in our waters but pillaging them. Their owners have no interest in maintaining the base level of stock required for the natural regeneration of fisheries. When the fish are gone, they will simply move to another part of the world. The locals obviously have no such options.
////////////////

From dawn of today. Even in the off shores, the corrupt are killing off the poor of pakistan.

Re: # 36

majumdar,

In teh streets of karachi, people are building their own fortresses, the education system is corrupt with plagiarism by teh professors, jihadi are carrying out major robberies and part of teh loot is going to the military, the only industry pf pakistan, textiles is collapsing due to non investment and pakistan is becoming an exported of raw cotton, agriculture is collapsing due to non investment and water shortage, less we talk about electricity supplies.

There si speading hopelessness, despir and complete destruction of hope among the simple and honest people of pakistan. It is only the corrupta nd criminals atht are flourishing....the country is on a slow death...I have long supported ans posted here about euthnasia for countries and pakistan is teh first candidate.

Re: # 35

SR,

Good to read a honest assessment. It is only iraquisation that can change pakistan brick by brick.

Re: # 20

masadi,

Many a people like you celebrated the so called free and fair elections, nothing has happened. With or without the judges, nothing will cgchnage in pakistan. In a system, if the changing of judges can make so much of a difference then it has no legal system worth its name. It is simply corruption.

Yaar masoomdar, pass some of that shit u are smokin...:)

SR sahib,

Re: 35

Pakistan's problems are serious but they will not destroy it. But pessimism of Pakistanis like you might.

Keep some faith. Pakistan has been moving in the right direction since last year. Pakistan's economic indices are moving up (albeit very slowly). The number of educated and well-off people is increasing and may already have reached a critical mass necessary to sustain democracy. In another decades time army intervention may be completely unthinkable. Short of an outright American invasion, Pakistan can tide over the current crisis, IMHO.

Regards

Re: # 31 Ahmed Madani ["... I really do not knw what can happen for better ? ...]

It is emotionally very difficult, to accept a dark and bleak reality when it comes to the prognosis of someone we love dearly. Our minds play strange tricks on us and we do not realise that we are engaging is denial, self-deception and wishful thinking.

(When my mother was in the hospital, before her death, she showed some improvement that we were not expecting. Well, my sister and I embraced each other and jumped with joy and laughed and joked after having been sad and afraid for two days. We wereso sure that mother has come out of danger and will be going back home with us in just a matter of days. That,sadly, was not to be. But my point is that we were completely overjoyed by the small ray of hope that came only temporarily.)

The prognosis of our Pakistan is GRAVE. It was ill conceived from the beginning and it has endured such enormous ravaging that it's demise is inevitable. I do not say this with any joy or glee. But it is a sad reality.

In fact, as long as the existing federal state apparatus is not completely dismantled and thoroughly torn down, brick by brick, there is absolutely no chance of a better system evolving in its place sometime in the future, but tragically, only after several more decades of suffering and exploitation.

The next military take-over will be the final death blow after these corrupt political rats have gnawed at the bowels of this hapless country. The next military takeover will be explosive and bloody and we will see firing squads in town squares. Then there will be splintering of the military and civil war on Yugoslavian scale that will take down many of the corrupt generals also.

The honest and the innocent, sadly, will suffer while the Humayun Akhtar Khans and Faisel Saleh Hayats of the world will be relaxing in Aspin, Colorado. The Nawaz Sharifs and the Asif Zardaris, I hope, will be swept away by the firing squards.

...SR

Response #2 to tahmed's posted pictures of the march: (relevant to this thread as well)

Posted by masadi on Sunday June 15, 2008 11:40 am
hurricane, this movement is not about the vampiric looking CJ, it is about the rule of law not a person, he happens to be on the right side of the equation that is why the people of this movement are supporting him otherwise they would see him hanged like they want to see Musharraf. Tahmed the hypocrite is just using this to "pull wool" over the eyes of the Pakistanis as he sells them to be butchered to the US, he doesn't really care about law or justice or you would never have seen him cheerlead for an illegal, unlawful, unjust US war on Iraq in 2003. As you can see from the last photo he pasted, he invents opportunities to worship his masters the US elite and their BS master symbols using which they "pull wool" over the eyes of their public whose very humanity they have torn out of their souls in that godforsaken country....

#31 Madani sahib, if they offered their previous front line man, Musharraf for supreme sacrifice do you feel that if the heat is turned up high enough they wont sacrifice Zardari?....eventually they will have to sacrfice their structure because the people are now waking up to the reality of the situation...whatever happens in the interim- and the people suffer in that period- as ZAB also said, the last victory in this land will be of the people

okhla writes "Almost half of the interacts on this article are from a particular bearded bloke who has been banished from US and now is a honorary citizen of Lululand (lulu.com). "

This fool and his friends in his "stink tank" can only respond with ad hominem. This fool has never seen me and does not know me, further there is no beard on my face, and I was never thrown out of the US, if I was how come I was there in 2007 delivering a paper? Explain this you SOB...

Re: # 22 Friend Mr. Masadi I read your comments and second you in most. I was saying it will be long time before President will depart as now he surrounded and protected by PPL+ PML (Q). Americans very cleverly used bb at first and by use of NRO enslaved PPP which is family Hairloom for Bhutto's. Unfortunately it is very sad and loss for ZAB/s work and PPP as party as Journey began with such great hope and tributlations and sufferings and now party has become tool of elist american as blunt instrument to be used against nation od pakistan.
I feel this first round hyopefully leads to gradual demise of dictectoral powers of state and people at helmm.
NS is not paragon of Virtue is really sad, he is more in ethinic clanish mood and that can be detrimental to federation.
Z and PPP establishment and family can not survive without NRO. Justice Chodhary will definitely will not allow NRO to stand and that means loss family PPP company controlled by Bhutto family. I do not think PPp or congress party of India can survive witout some body heading party without Bhutto od Gandhi's is sad but true thing. Neither Judge is saint , he only got in "democratic mood" when he was fired by general.
There are no heros or pious people . ( In that matter old mr. Gandi ( mr Manto has deprived him of mahatma title) was pious man in sense he acted in what he believed).
Now nobody believes in anything and nothing to act on belief, there is no idealogy or program from General, Z, PM or Judge. All idealogy is you scartch my back and I will scratch yours.
This march resembles as french revolution as workers of france gather at "state bank " and what do about ahead and that revolution led to dictetorship. Mindless lawyers assembled and they did not have any program so they went home. Vindicated evil plan of Z and president to rule just for self help all family interests over nation.NS has self interests of Punjab, Z care about family interests, and president just care about himself and american agenda may be he is awarded monetarily that will seen later as epilogue to this miserable situation. When people follow corroupt leaders nothing comes out but all efforts in waste .
I am saddened by events. No body is manning govt and inflation of food and ;lack of power is killing. General Kayani also must be in dilema. He can not take over as army can not now controil masses. Even docile Sindhis have become aggressive as seen by rumpage done after death of BB and they are absolved of all violence as first time like MQM power Sindhi power is rising. Punjabi's feel felt out and out raged by cancelling of Kalabagh and loss of water and even though have numbers sindi leader is calling shots with confidence. B Stan is on fire and BLA is doing all damage it can.
I really do not knw what can happen for better ?
Hope some intelligent people can give "practical ways".
Good night.

Hi all,

Almost half of the interacts on this article are from a particular bearded bloke who has been banished from US and now is a honorary citizen of Lululand (lulu.com).

Kindly ignore his stinky droppings which he attempts to scatter in all directions.

Hi all,

Almost half of the interacts on this article are from a particular bearded bloke who has been banished from US and now is a honorary citizen of Lululand (lulu.com).

Kindly ignore his stinky droppings which he attempts to scatter in all directions.

tahmed writes "And AA and NS spoke with insight, with clarity and with strength"

The only reason why this peon of the West does not praise Imran Khan's speech (which was based on the great insight)is because he called BS on his master (the US elite's) and revealed the barbarism of the Americans in this area. That is the only reason why this backstabbing fool (tahmed), who uses this fluff to support the Pakistani people while hiding and defending those that butchers them, cannot be trusted and needs to be hung by parliament decree together with that other peon of the West, Musharraf, who similarly sold us all to be slaughtered as supreme sacrifice to his American gods.....

In #22 read "and sent a clear example" as

and sent a clear message

BJ2 writes "A long march, yes! But did it get anywhere? "

yes, besides the parliament, it went to the hearts and minds of the people, it will become an even bigger force to reckon with once the judges are restored, that is why the establishment was so afraid of it that it even offered to sacrifice Musharraf to prevent it....

It was quite amazing that the "supremo" talked about by Madani sahib was using similar BS argumets like JayP in discrediting this long march, whose movement is the only salvation of this country but is in danger of being coopted by the establishment if it associates too closely with any of the career politicians of this country, therein is the danger- note this Aitezaz Ahsan if you're reading this, or convey it to him...

A long march, yes! But did it get anywhere?

A long march, yes! But did it get anywhere?

ahmadmadani writes "President and Chairman Z has absolutely won round 1."

This was no absolute victory for the President though it can be seen as a small victory for Chairman Z because of which Nawaz convinced the lawyers leadership not to do a sit in but it was the start and sent a clear example. Claiming that some supremo sitting in London making big claims is somehow a counter to this long march which is quite unprecidented in the history of this country is to believe in BS, let him start a long march and it will fizzle out outside of Karachi without reaching anyplace, btw, Karachi is not Pakistan and religious and ethnic slogans are not used by people's politicians they are used by thugs, mafias and tahmed's colonialist friends (including their sh** the Pakistan Army)

later...

JayP writes "The pakistansi who took aprt and supported the march are the most stupid on earth. They have been fooled by Nawaz, the man who thrashed the very suporeme court during his time has become a great supporter of the rule of law."

What a sorry BS reason, wake up fool, the country has changed, and the people have woken up, you cite the example of a time when they were in deep slumber thanks to the Pakistan Army who had set a bad precident but an example setting one nonetheless in how to deal with the judiciary. Now no mai ka laal can do anything with the judiciary once it is restored not the military not the civilians under it and most of all the structure spun by the military will start getting undone, that is why restoring the judges and setting this trend setting though pioneering example of the independance of the judiciary is priority#1 in Pakistan, nevermind what took place in the past, the nation was too drugged then to come up with this fantastic movement that has now emerged, and in it Nawaz S is on the correct side though he is walking a fine line between appeasing the military/US man Zardari and the lawyers movement, it is because of walking this fine line that the lawyer's movement didn't do a sit in and dispersed, they should use but keep their distance from these political big wigs otherwise this last best hope for Pakistan might get coopted as well. Those marchers were certainly not losers they were the few alive, free people in a nation of dead and enslaved people....

Even though the march was magnificent and this movement will be the savior of the people of Pakistan, this hypocrite tahmed who wants American troops to rampage thorugh Pakistan, wants to sell us to them and supported the Iraq war with massive cheerleading and touts the "benefits" of British colonization of India, should be hung through parliament decree with Musharraf, the thug who was supported by the Americans wholeheartedly as he butchered this nation....The lying hypocrite tahmed should not be allowed to fool the people with these photos and happy talk when he is stabbing them in the back, just as the Pakistan Army made inroads with the people through American bribery but whose true face is finally emerging in the hearts of the people who hate it and who hate peons of the West like tahmed...

Stupidest march

The pakistansi who took aprt and supported the march are the most stupid on earth. They have been fooled by Nawaz, the man who thrashed the very suporeme court during his time has become a great supporter of the rule of law.

The fools who beleived in him are the ones who took part in the march, the march of teh fools and the loosers.

The height of trivia.

When the sections of the cities are being blocked of by the residents to reduce crime, when the jiahdi groups are looting banks at their pleasure, when millions are suffering without electricity, when people are in ques for hours to get a few kilos of atta, it is good to see that the educated of pakistan are concerned about reinstating a few corrupt judges.

No one can see the fact that it is simply hatred of mushy by nawaz that is behind thsi tamasha. No judge, no legal system can change anything in pakistan because the entire legal system si corrupt. Take th ecase of muktaran mai, initially no onme was charged with any crime, at teh insistance of mushy, four have been sentenced to death. Give us a break, which law tells that in islamic pakistan rape is a hanging offence. In a country where the muredr of smaia arawar did not even create a case to be filed, here is deaths entence fo four for a routine rape case. Give the peopel fo teh world a break, forget about teh legal system of pakistan, it is all a political game of nawaz to get at mushy.

#15 you are welcome to worship that criminal you call your "supremo".

However, for the vast majority of Pakistanis - they are a free people and consider political leaders to be there to serve them. Not be their "supremos". And today the 50 peaceful demonstrators for the rule of law that this "supremo" had murdered were also remembered.

Re: With all help to marchers the numbers were not good. MQM supremo Mr. Hussain usually can have 4 times than many in few hours. President and Chairman Z has absolutely won round 1. Many more rounds to go.

Thanks to ijaz gul and SR for "live reporting".

This was not just a Long March, it was a Great March. It was great io a number of ways, and showed the true mettle of the people of Pakistan.

God bless every one of the 250k estimated by SR who were there in Islamabad, and God bless the hundreds of thousands more who came out to support the Long Marchers from Lahore to Rawalpindi and offer then food and water, and God Bless the great leadership that made this march a peaceful one, with no buses burnt and no people attacked. The great participation from all provinces was another aspect that augurs well for Pakistan.

And AA and NS spoke with insight, with clarity and with strength, men who are truly worthy of leading the great nation of Pakistan. NS has come a long way since the time he could only mumble incoherently in public.

Anne W(hore) Peterson was quite helpless too.....

btw those stories about Musharraf leaving and a plane waiting for him and so on and so forth did not just "appear", they were released by the Pakistan Army itself, when they were made to pee in their pants by threat of a long march that the PPP could not stop...

This tamasha was held less than a mile from my house in F-6. I live only one street in from Nazim-ud-din road so I managed to walk over to see what was cooking. Though I had better sense than to go into the Parade Ground itself, there was ample evidence that this was an unusual event. Later, I bicycled around and there were more people everywhere than I've seen at any public spectacle anywhere.

Whoever says that the crowd was only 40K is either blind or a liar. But at the same time half a millionis also an exaggeration. A quarter million is more reasonable. But this was a veryloose crowd, dispersed over a wide area. So really it depends on how you want to count. If you only count those who entered the grounds then perhaps you'dbe hard pressed to even claim a hundred thousand. But if you looked around and included the free-for-all milling around within a few blocks, the numbers would swell.

It took hours and hours so obviously the body of the crowd was not static, but quite dynamic and its composition was constantly in a flux.

I was greatly concerned about the logistical bottle necks when I learned that there was going to be a 48 hour sit-down. A crowd that large would excrete almost two thousand metric tons of urine every twelve hours, not to mention 37500 kilograms of poop over a twenty four hour period. So even if food and water could somehow be made available, what comesout the other end had nowhere to go. So, I for one, am glad that they called it off when they did.

...SR

g'night

nazarhayatkhan "How does one deal with creatures such as him?"

A public hanging with crows allowed to consume his dead carcass- those who suck the blood of the people, cut their life-lines and sell their life-fate to external bidders, deserve nothing less.

Pakistan was blessed this last year with a movement that will change the structure of this country, they have shaken the establishment who tried to prevent this show of strength and a show of strength it was, by willing to sacrifice Musharraf, even the Army was game and put him under house arrest for all real intents and purposes, but that movement that has quickly matured and whose leadership thus far is standing tall, said clearly that they do not fall for that distraction, they want the judges restored and the judiciary made independant and beholden to the people, justice will then be done to the sob who denied justice to 160 million plus for his own power and for the sake of his external masters.....

One side of the gahering was dominated by students of Tehrik e Insaf, Jamia Faridya and Hafsa. Then the security gates and lights failed. I think that sent jitters. Some felt that the long march was about to be hijacked.
Thats just my guess.

Wow! Its wonderful to know that u were there. But how it culminated was a blow.a disappointment at zenith. I feel we were once again defeated. And not because of 'sheirdil sipahee' but the commanders. Defeat and disgrace are the two words in my mind now. Why Why Why?????
why so many students bunked their classes, ceased studies, labourers stopped working in mills, daily wagers how could they have managed???/How those desolated sould have managed to accumulate little bit of whatever wealth they had and travelled miles and miles...Particpated with one will, one conviction in mind.Why poor nation was asked to invest all their resources poor peasents, mazdoor, students even proffessionals like doctors engineers just worked incessantly for this march... for wha??????????????
to hear same old speeches again and again abuses and condemnation poetic verses,words and only words become meaning less with No action no result. they did not used the exact word 'Dharna' but_____the message pre march was clear that this would end with result..Sure Zardaris PPP have won again in their shrewed political games
I mean all the time they were screaming,vowing to the people that they would not move from there until their legitimate demand..."Restoration of Jusdiciary to pre 3rd Nov position" be conceded. I wish THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED THERE TILL PM YOUSUF RAZA GILLANI EMERGED FROM THE PM HOUSE AND HANDED OVER THE WRIITEN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO AITZAZ EHSAN FOR RESTORATION OF ALL THE JUDGES AND ORDERED IMPEACHMENT FOR PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF. But the dreams were broken.........
And the argument of Mr. Aitzaz Ehsan was such bogus about less resources____________ I mean come on they had the peopels strength, the verdict from masses.People could have brought food and arranged for every other necessity if leaders have showed some back bone.....'deed-o-dil fershe raah ker deite...ker hee diye the in fact
Sheer disappointment!!!!!!
They say that u need to strike hardest when the iron is hot.And they missed that opportunity.Now who's gonna trust them.Like one of the reporter of aaj tv said its like leaving all ur soldiers in the battlefield without any gidlelines,helpless after calling them for war.
I am so shocked.. The leaders have once again shattered our trust.brought us back to square one.......
But salute to people of Pakistan who listened to their leaders and finally left quietly after the show of'Much ado about Nothing'

Nikhat Riaz

There is a very negative spn given to this historic march spearheaded by Daily Times and Business Plus a la Salman Taseer.
When the head of this convoy reached Islamabad, the trail was still betweed Mandara and Sowan. The head to tail distance is more than 50 Kms. This does not 9nclude convoys converging from other routes like Peshawar, Motorway, Murree and Khanna Bridge. At Committee Chowk Murree Road Rawalpindi, It took over 7 hours from the head-tail to clear.

I drove with the head to Islamabad around 1300 hours and got back to Rawalpindi.On the second turnround when I briefly communicated with pavo and tahmed through my laptop, the tail comprising Aitezaz was still at Zero Point at 23000 hours. Now this does not count 40,000.

The real value of the long march to Pakistan - PPP's corrupt leadership, now exposed for the reason it opposes the rule of law in Pakistan - the NRO.

It was but an anti-PPP show

Saturday, June 14, 2008
News Analysis

By Shaheen Sehbai

KARACHI: The massive show of peoples’ power at the Parade Avenue on Friday night has proven one undeniable fact: the PPP is not the only political force which can bring the masses on the streets and it will now always remain a challenge whether it will ever be able to match this show.

The long march has also proven another unfortunate fact, a totally avoidable one: the PPP is standing on the wrong side of what the people of Pakistan want. Almost everyone who knows the PPP would agree that if Benazir Bhutto would have been alive, she would never have allowed such a massive show of strength against her own party as she always had her fingers on the pulse of the nation.

But sadly the convoluted politics and the compromised positions of her political heirs have made her genuinely popular party into a virtual ally of a falling dictator, a villain of the drama and that too when the last act is being played out on the stage in front of the three otherwise sacred buildings ñ the Parliament, the Supreme Court and the Presidency.

Another ironic fallout of this huge show would be a massive backlash within the PPP itself as bulk of the party leadership and following, which for years braved the dictator and fought him with all other pro-democracy forces, would not like to be left behind standing in a corner as a collaborator, when the defeated dictator finally cuts and runs.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=15343

With less than 45,000 participants, including 1,000 lawyers and their munshis, 3,000 madrassash students and Mullahs, 3,000 activists of Jamaat Islami and its student wing Jamiat, 1,500 workers of Imran Khan's PTI, and the remaining participants brought by Pakistan Muslim League -N, the so called Long March proved to be a Short March. It started with humiliatingly low numbers in Karachi, Sukkur and Multan. It created funny scenes such as the Jamiat students beating up the pro-Imran Khan SAC students in Lahore and ended up with an ugly show of noise and indecency by a few thousand activists in Islamabd. Actually the crowd was so uncivilised and unruly that they also tried to beat their own leader Aitezaz Ahsan who was rescued by police. Here is a picture which shows that the total number of participants in the so called Long March was less than 50,000, a number one tenth of the claim of 5 lac made by Mr Aitezaz Ahsan.

http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com

According to Associated Press, Long March could gather only 20 - 40 K people. February 18th election showed that those who made deals with Musharaff got 75 % votes. ( MLQ + PPP). Contrary to media hype that verdict was against Musharaff it seems like that Musharaff deal partners got majority 75 % votes. While Nawaz Sharriff had only 20 % votes. Effectively, Nawaz Shariff is the minority. If he can not gather people like Benazir, he should stop claiming to be the voice of whole nation. Matter of fact is that this talentless person is the by product of Martial Law himself. He should stop portraying himself as a democratic leader. In his time he himself behaved like a dictator. He destroyed economy, stole dollars from Overseas Pakistanis, attacked Supreme Court and Journalist. He always played " Punjabi Card". Thank God people of Punjab rejected him by casting only 20 percent votes in his favor. Only PPP is the true democratic party in Pakistan.

But Musharaf says he `never fired the judges' & he is still the `Constitutional President'.

How does one deal with creatures such as him?

NHK

The real change will emerge from ruins only.
When corruption become so rampant then the flood of destruction is God's way to make the slate clean so that it can be written a fresh.

Aey meiray ujray chaman
Aey meiray piayray watan
Aey meiray ujray chaman
Kahan giya woh husn-e-watan
Kahan hein woh lalo saman
Sub raakh ho giyay is aag mein
Na dil bacha na tan badan
Kia dhondhna is raakh mein
Kia ab milay ga is khak mein
Jo ham safar thay woh bewafa
Jo rahnama thay woh rahazan
Aey meiray piayray watan
Aey meiray ujray chaman
(God, give me ability to endure seeing the suffering of total destruction coming our way)