Aitzaz’s Monumental Blunder

Re: # 302

gt road,

.... so what are you advocating - capitulation ? .... are you willing to let the taliban barbarians spread out from waziristan and swat to peshawar and islamabad on their march to the sea st karachi ?..... where and when do the civilized people of the world draw the line ? ....... or are you willing to live under the barbaric rule of the taliban like the people of afghanistan ten years ago ?

..... the people of the world cannot afford to take this risk and this vermin must be destroyed beefore they destroy us .... relentless pursuit with nato and pakistani boots on the ground, combined with a tactical nukes can do the job ......... it will take time - ten fifteen years - but it must be done .........

Re: # 298
akcheema, the Romans could enslave the Carthagians and plow their fields with salt but there was only one Carthage, as there is only one Japan. So the situtions are not analogous. There are a lot of muslims, and an action like nuking a part of FATA would mobilize a lot more terrorists than it would kill. It would just be a larger version of what happens every time there is an unmanned missile strike in FATA. Maybe it would cripple a particular agency as a centre of the insurgency but other centres would spring up in no time, fueled by the anger against what had happened.

Do you think that Fazlullah and Mehsud would have been in the position they are in today if there hadn't been an Operation Enduring Freedom? The only people who advocate nukes as a solution are the ones who refuse to consider the consequences of the war on terror in radicalizing the population of Pakistan. Someone asked if there are any honest Pakistanis -- I wonder if there are any honest neo-cons who are willing to consider the consequences of their actions rather than preaching morality.

#298 Posted by akcheema,

Okay, so your view is nuke one or two parts (as Hiroshima / Nagasaki - not entire Japan) and they will be sorted out, just as Japan surrendered for good.

But you forget Japan was fighting a regular war as a State and surrendered to save its civilian population. Not in this case. Pakistan is not fighting USA. It is the irregulars who are fighting USA and they won't care what Pakistan does. Whatever remain, will in fact be strengthened and get loads of more recruits. Look at the scale. The bombing of Bajaur madrassa with eighty killed created Lal Masjid rebellion and bombing Lal Masjid with a thousand killed created both the Swat and Waziristan rebellions. What would nuking a hundred thousand do?

And I'm perfectly happy in a suit and tie. Thank you! Taliban is an idea which needs no particular attire.

"This is just one instance of the state of denial that colours our response to criticism. When radical Muslims from all over the world travel to Pakistan to receive training in bomb-making, and indoctrination in extremist interpretations of Islam, we hold up our hands and claim we are not responsible. Never mind that these training camps are located within our borders, and those running them are well known to our intelligence agencies. When graduates from these camps kill and maim innocent people in the West, we wash our hands of all responsibility.

Similarly, when drugs were a major export from Pakistan, we conveniently blamed the addicts for pushing up demand and prices in the West. When illegal immigrants from Pakistan cross borders all over the world, we claim we can do nothing to halt this traffic. And when supporters of the Taliban cross over into Afghanistan, or when jihadis traverse the Line of Control into Indian Kashmir with or without the connivance of our intelligence agencies, we pretend complete ignorance."
///////////////////////

A honest pakistani. Is there any like him on chowk. from dawn of today

Re: # 298

I am going to leave you with those happy thoughts for now; at least for today I have kept you out of mischief and off the streets eh!

Khuda Hafiz

Re: # 295

I didn't ask for anyone to be nuked; however, as I said before (and you came up with a lot of 'flaws' with) was that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not the whole of Japan....it sorted them out nevertheless

also, the rest of Pakistan would have to make some tough decisions too....they either start teaching their kids "how to think" rather than "what to think", or perish as a significant entity.......It is this "what to think" education system that has produced many of the contributors on this site....and in the country at large

Zeemax.....you are intent on finding any, absolutely any, justification to appease the "unwashed"(to borrow from hamidm); if that is the direction you want to be moving your country in, fair enough.....don't be a munafiq then, leave that suit/tie behind and don the proper attire so we all know who you are and what you stand for

thankfully, it is not all down to you though!

Zeemax,

Good to see taht you are once again in teh business of classifying the jihadis. The sectarian jihadis, kashmir juhadis, al quida.

Add one more, the bank robing jihadis, or that can be done by any jihadi.

How about teh cristian kidnapping jihadis of peshawar, read todays dawn.

Jihadi seeks death, and he will kill the infidels or any one the muullah tells him to kill ( remember the paki miliatry doctor was killed by a jihadi ). The jihadis have one ideology, kill, any jihadi is a general purpose killer.

Re: # 275

Madani saab,

Marching to kashmir by pakistanis, a non-violent march, if I recall that is what gandhi wanted to do, but from india.

Are you telling that jinnah and his TNT is finally dead, that pakis are ready to smash the photos and take a non-violent march.

#294 Posted by akcheema,

Yes agreed re no exit plan left by Soviets. But what to do now? That's the question. You said nuking them is the solution, I disagree with that because nuking Waziristan won't do much damage to Taliban because they aren't there in the most part. Only Baitullah Mehsud's group is there. Ok nuke Bajaur as well. That will destroy the Mullah Faquir militia. Nuke Swat alongwith entire Malakand. That will destroy Fazlullah. But what about Khyber Agency? Nuke that and destroy Peshawar as well. Will that destroy Taliban? I guess it will for the most part in Pakistan. But what about Afghanistan. Nuke Kunar, Hilmand as well? Wow!

However if you think nuking all these regions will destroy Taliban/A-Qaeda, all power to you. However in that case you will have to nuke Egypt, Saudia, Morocco, Algiers, Sudan, Yeman as well.

Re: # 292; Zeemax

you may be right in individual distinctions of various groups; point to my post was more to highlight the lack of overall respect for "individual" human life

also, when different groups get together against a perceived assailant, they all have a common purpose and tend to (temporarily) cast their differences aside. Same happened during the Soviet invasion.....after the ousting of the Soviets, there was no exit plan and the mess still remains to be cleared up

same point I made earlier about the so-called "lawyer's movement"; there is no clear plan as to what's to come of it and that is the problem

e.g., if as a scientist I instigate a project/study and apply for research grant, I'd have to explain the criteria by which I'd validate my results and what'd define if the project had failed or succeeded in its objectives. Unfortunately we sometimes fail to apply similar standards to real life situations........when the 'enemy' leaves, we have no alternative strategy that all parties had agreed upon.....result = total anarchy

Araba=Arabs. It was a typo, not the derogatory term some Pakistanis use.

#291 Posted by akcheema,

Cheema Sahib you're making the same mistake as Haqqani in that interview. Only difference is that he makes it intentionally and to mislead Pakistanis, while your case seems to be an honest mistake. That mistake is failing to make a distinction between the Araba (Al-Qaida?), Taliban, and the Sectarians. You lump them all together while they all have seperate and distinct agendas.

E.g. you mentioned Sipah-e-Sahaba. These are terrorists. Whenever you hear of a mosque bombing, it is them and their allied groups. But you also may be surprised to know it was maulana Azam Tariq (their chief)'s vote which got musharraf the single seat majority to make Jamali the PM in 2002.

The other two groups have never been involved with targeting public in Pakistan, and must be perceived differently.

Even Ban Ki Moon has advised Karzai to negotiate with Taliban. If these were terrorists, would the UN Sec General done that?

Re: # 290; Zeemax

if Pakistanis don't show any evidence of having the balls to take the bull by the horns, they might

problem is the perspective. when I lived in Pakistan, bombs used to be going off left, right and centre; this included people from 'spiah-e-sahaba' who killed Aqa-e-Sadiq Ganji (Khana Farang Iran in Lahore).....no body so much flinched! because people are brought up with this silly notion of "shahadat" and its prospective rewards...issue remains that they can't all be shaheeds in the eyes of the almighty!

from a professional pov, I saw that daily; patients die all over the place because of lack of appropriate clinical care and it is all put down to "allah di marzi" and fate. Same thing happens in the west and all hell breaks loose; people try to find out "the cause" rather than "accepting fate". The whole outlook is different

Life is cheap and dispenable in our part of the world.......it is the sad reality but true; I mean one bus crash, 200 die and no questions! no liability!

and you my friend have absolutely nothing in common with the people you claim to represent......it is all pride talk and a reaction to the perceived "kick in the teeth" which in all reality doesn't happen that way anyway

#289 Posted by akcheema,

Well, actually I do believe that tactical nukes may indeed be used by USA in FATA. Perhaps in the areas Usama Bin Ladin is suspected to be like they mentioned the K2 range (though that stretches from near Gilgit right upto Skardu) and the Parachinar/Terah area.

Mass destruction weapons, I don't think so. For the reason that Taliban are all in and around Urban centers of NWFP now, perhaps more than in FATA itself as in case of Bara Agency at the edge of Peshawar. Would Americans really want to destroy Peshawar, Kohat, Mingora etc?

Re: # 288; zeemax

certainly not destroyed completely; we might need the land!!

#287 Posted by akcheema,

Yaar why can't you just say your solution plainly? So I assume you believe that FATA should be destroyed by nukes. Ok. Fair enough. That is ONE solution.